Radical Change is Coming to Hawaiʻi Film | Gerard Elmore on Kukini, Equity & Mentorship

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: Cucini, Cucini, Black Panther, Criterion
2. 10:00 – 20:00: NMG Network
3. 30:00 – 40:00: Cucini, Cucini
4. 40:00 – 50:00: Chief of War, Chief of War, Cookini, Hawaiian culture
5. 50:00 – 1:00:00: Hawaii Youth Symphony, Ohana Labs
6. 1:00:00 – 1:09:20: Cucini, Cucini, Kahua Kai

Notable quotes from "Radical Change is Coming to Hawaiʻi Film | Gerard Elmore on Kukini, Equity & Mentorship"

• Today's guest is Gerard Elmore, an Emmy-winning filmmaker and the vice president of film at NMG Network. He's worn about every hat in the business, director producer writer editor and cinematographer.

  about NMG Network · at 0:02

• Oh yeah. Yeah. So the two films were Cucini and the Queen's Flowers.

  about Cucini · at 2:44

• So, tell me more. Did you help create Ohana Labs or were you just up you know you joined or how did Oh Labs come about? Tell me about your baby.

  about Ohana Labs · at 3:42

• Him credit. He was our brand guy who actually made the introduction to Nate Moore at Marvel. and Nate Moore came as a guest for Showcase and we had a great conversation with…

  about Marvel · at 5:52

• Take him under his wing. And the film that was that came out of that lab with his mentorship was Malca Makai.

  about Malca Makai · at 8:26

• Found, 400,000 views in a month. Do you think that's influenced by the success of Chief of War at all? And what do you think Chief of War will do for all the films coming out…

  about Chief of War · at 41:07

• Spotlight on their projects, and do you plan now to go further with Cookini and those storylines or do you have other projects in mind spinning off that?

  about Cookini · at 43:08

• Part. The exciting part is we're making this thing, and I was talking to Randy Wong at the Hawaii Youth Symphony, and so they're Hey, we're we're thinking, is there any way we…

  about Hawaii Youth Symphony · at 50:01

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Gerard Elmore — Person · 1 mention · first at 0:02
  Today's guest is Gerard Elmore, an Emmy-winning filmmaker and the vice president of film at NMG Network. He's worn about every hat in the business, director producer writer editor and.

Companies & orgs

• NMG Network — Company · 2 mentions · first at 0:07
• Ohana Labs — Company · 2 mentions · first at 3:45
• Oh Short Film Showcase — Company · 1 mention · first at 0:27
  Local storytellers through his work as a former lecturer and as executive director of the Oh Short Film Showcase.
• Sundance Institute — Company · 1 mention · first at 0:33
  He's even been recognized by the Sundance Institute for his work behind the scenes. It's an honor to have him on this show. Let's get into it.
• Marvel — Company · 1 mention · first at 5:56
• Criterion — Company · 1 mention · first at 8:55
  And it was a big hit. It's got I think it's got like 400,000 views on online. It got picked up by Criterion.
• Hawaii Youth Symphony — Company · 1 mention · first at 50:06
• Dust — Company · 1 mention

Products & tech

• Cucini — Product · 6 mentions · first at 2:42
  Oh yeah. Yeah. So the two films were Cucini and the Queen's Flowers.
• Chief of War — Product · 4 mentions · first at 41:12
  Found, 400,000 views in a month. Do you think that's influenced by the success of Chief of War at all? And what do you think Chief of War will do for all the films coming out…
• The Queen's Flowers — Product · 1 mention · first at 2:46
  Oh yeah. Yeah. So the two films were Cucini and the Queen's Flowers.
• Black Panther — Product · 1 mention · first at 6:20
  And so he goes, I know a guy I know a guy and he's working on this film. It's called Black Panther and his name is Joe Robert Cole.
• Malca Makai — Product · 1 mention · first at 8:31
• Kaleva — Product · 1 mention · first at 8:48
  We're going to need to create them. So that first film was Kaleva and it was a big hit. It's got I think it's got like 400,000 views on online. It got picked up by Criterion.

Concepts & topics

• Cucini — Concept · 6 mentions · first at 2:42
• Chief of War — Concept · 4 mentions · first at 41:12
• Cookini — Concept · 3 mentions · first at 43:14
• Hawaiian culture — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 41:19
  What do you think Chief of War will do for all the films coming out locally made for the Hawaiian culture specifically? Yeah, it's a good question and it's kind of hard to say…
• Kahua Kai — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:07:59
  Kahua Kai is on auto Hawaiian Airlines planes and the inflight entertainment.
• Moana — Concept · 1 mention

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Welcome back to the Big Picture Podcast. Today's guest is Gerard Elmore, an Emmy-winning filmmaker and the vice president of film at NMG Network. He's worn about every hat in the business, director producer writer editor and cinematographer. Gerard is also a passionate mentor, helping guide the next generation of local storytellers through his work as a former lecturer and as executive director of the Oh Short Film Showcase. He's even been recognized by the Sundance Institute for his work behind the scenes. It's an honor to have him on this show. Let's get into it.

0:50 There are I feel like there's two different worlds and I have definitely chose indie world. Yeah. And that is different and section off from the bigger productions. Yeah. Different teams, different crews

1:04 and everything we've been building is community- based, you know, hands in the dirt. Yeah. like ground up like Paula and and many of the filmmakers maybe never directed before.

1:15 Yeah. And that's what we do. It's good having you. Thank you for making the time to sit down and talk.

1:19 Mahalo for having me. Yeah. Um just saw you at the get together on Saturday which was incredible at the outrigger. Um the first ever Wy Ki Film Awards and uh how did you enjoy that event?

1:32 No, I I thought it was awesome. It was a great way to bring everyone together. I think this is a great time to sort of take a breather and actually actually look back and see kind of the great work that's coming out of Hawaii. I might be a little biased because I worked on both of those films that were shown um in different capacities and different roles and they're both Oh Labs projects, but um we're we're just excited that there's people that are hungry and passionate about this industry

2:05 that want to do something to continue to build it. That's what I see, too. It's just people really having the urge to do something. It's almost like if if you're drowning in a in a way and you're just, you know, trying to get up for air, grasp for air and you're doing anything at all possible. Um, and I see it as all positive things and I think the best things are formed under pressure and I think we're seeing that like you said. What are the What were the two films for the people who couldn't make it that did showcase at Wiki Film Awards?

2:38 The the people who didn't make it. Yeah, for the people who didn't make it. Uh, what was it? Cucini.

2:44 Oh yeah. Yeah. So the the two films were Cucini and the Queen's Flowers. And so Kiara Lacy uh went through the labs program. It was like three or four years ago. I I I forgot kind of she was busy but we're able to kind of do certain things and make connections and then help in a very small way. And Cini was definitely from the ground up the whole cycle of Ohena films where Paula was there checking out some Oh films at Hif and and actually saying how do I make a movie to actually applying for funding at Pacific Islanders and Communications to actually going into Oh Labs being mentored by Denn Du Miller and Bryson Chun from Moana and uh then from going that into that into making Cucini and then actually going to the same theater where she watched the Oh shorts and showing Cini.

3:41 That's incredible. Yeah. So, um tell me more. Did you help create Ohana Labs or were you just up um you know you joined or how did Oh Labs come about? Tell me about

3:52 your baby. Uh well so this is where I go into the the long history of Ohena because

3:57 we're here. Oh existed way before me. Oh okay. And there was actually Oh showcase and that was created by Jason Supa and Jeff Katz Pacific Focus at the time before it was 1013 for everyone out there. And so what ended up happening is they were a bunch of local filmmakers who couldn't quite get into HIF and started this offshoot uh oh showcase which was like the best Hawaii made local made films from Hawaii. the best two hours period short films. So that was sort of this thing that happened at Homa Dors Duke Theater and it was free to the public. It was a free event and everyone got fired up production and and and eventually it was more competitive than HIF, right? To be honest and um I a great example is the first film short film that I ever made I submitted to HIF and it was

4:57 it was accepted to HIF. Yeah. and rejected from Ohana. So I was rejected multiple times from Ohana showcase and so when the people come to me and say how come I didn't get into oh I was like well I have been rejected multiple times and it it was around for a long time until Jason and and Jeff were kind of burnt out by the whole thing. Leanne Ferrer was a part of it as well and of course she was executive director of

5:25 PIC. So there's a lot of connections and that was actually 25 years ago. So it was around for a long time. So it's actually so surprising that people don't know Ohena even though it's been around for so long,

5:38 right? But what has been the newer thing is Oh Labs and that's been around for about eight years. And that was something co-created with me and um Brian Watanabe, Eric Reese, I'm going to give him credit. He was our brand guy who actually made the introduction to Nate Moore at Marvel. and Nate Moore came as a guest for Showcase and we had a great conversation with him and we were like, would it be possible if you you sent someone from Marvel to help us with our local filmmakers just as a just like I wonder what he would say?

6:15 And so he goes, I know a guy I know a guy and he's working on this film. It's called Black Panther and his name is Joe Robert Cole.

6:24 And we had no money to give. We had nothing to give other than a room and pay for his flight.

6:30 And we just threw it out there. We're like, we've always dreamt of a lab where we can develop our local films and our local filmmakers. Would Joe, would you be interested in helping in this lab, which we don't know what it looks like, we've never tried it. And he said yes. And that experience was magical. And and I I do give him credit for helping to create the labs. And I tell him that to this day because in that lab I remember coming. It was invite only. It was it was filmmakers that were part of the showcase. So this is Alikica Tangan, Aaron Laauo, Taisanga.

7:07 Wow. Um Philly Heriko and Mitchell Merrick. So that was the first group. It was an invite only. Joe Robert Cole mentored them. And I remember him reading these scripts and going I don't know if there's anything I can do about this. you know, you know, they're they're okay, you know. Um, so I was like, cuz we were trying our our best to impress him, like there's good talent here.

7:31 Yeah. Yeah. And he was kind, you know, Yeah. He was kind of like that. Love the honesty.

7:37 He was he was honest. So I knew he's going to be honest with our filmmakers, and that's what we need. If we're going to get to the next level, we're going to have to be honest.

7:44 So I remember that moment and going, "Oh man, I hope he's I hope he's going to like what we have." M

7:51 and the first day went well and everyone was taking notes and the second day everyone had to incorporate notes and repitch and that second day and you know I I think Joe was okay with me mentioning this but he was just crying. He was just crying because he was like these stories matter and his agent was was calling him. He's like where are you? What are you doing? He's like I'm I'm somewhere where I need to be.

8:16 Yeah. And I I feel like I need to be here. And it was it was just an amazing moment. He he decided to mentor uh Alikica Tangon, take him under his wing. And the film that was that came out of that lab with his mentorship was Malca Makai.

8:34 Oh yes. Yeah. And and so our first Oh projects that we grin lit because the idea was we're going to greenlight something and we're going to produce it. We're going to find ways to create and make these films. Not just talk about them or workshop them. We're going to need to create them. So that first film was Kaleva

8:50 and it was a big hit. It it's got I think it's got like 400,000 views on online. It got picked up by Criterion. It won awards all around the world. And then it got picked up by Dust, which is this sci-fi thing. And I I think it's kind of full circle that that was Mitchell and now it's Mitchell of Cucini that's that's going viral, you know? So, it's kind of amazing where we're at, but that's how Oh. And from there, we've been able to corral these Hollywood mentors who who want to come here.

9:24 And now we've gotten to the point where we actually have people who are part of labs that are now mentoring like Bryson Chun.

9:30 Sure. He's he was year two and then he came back after Moana and and Doogie. So, we're seeing the results of labs and seeing

9:39 that after 8 years, we're up to 30 films coming out of the labs program. Wow, that's incredible. Um, so when when you guys created um the lab section of it, was it always you you always knew that you wanted to take a creator from the writing process all the way through to through the production process and then the distribution? And are you teaching that in your labs? The idea behind the labs and why it was starred is because at showcase we'd always see this peaks and valleys with the quality of films.

10:11 So it was all over the place and and and audiences would always comment. They're like, "Oh, some of them are good." You know, some of them were good.

10:17 I've been to some of them. Yeah. Yeah. You're just you're it's two hours and people are just struggling to stay.

10:24 So labs was a response to that. Okay. How can we elevate so that it's consistent and then it is not a chore

10:32 that everyone all these films are at equal level and that they're they're of strong quality. So the idea was how do we take something at a script level because when you get it at a finish level there's not a lot you can do

10:48 right so at a script level you can still do a lot now at a script level after all these years we can now identify that's going to be too expensive that's not practical that's not producable

11:00 um these are resources you can realistically get and we'll get you to the finish line

11:05 so you may need to pair it back you need to do this so that it could be made. Yeah.

11:10 And and at the script level, we attack it that way. Now, uh at the green light level, there's usually one, sometimes two. And what that means is finding funds, giving them up to $10,000. And then up until this point, you know, using my gear for all these short films, letting them borrow the lenses, the cameras, and all that they need, maybe production insurance or whatever it takes to to get their films made. And then at that point, you know, we we help them get through the process. Sometimes on set, a lot of times on set,

11:45 and then get into festivals, which ones are going to be good fits, which ones are worthless.

11:52 I'm going to be honest, a lot of festivals are worthless. They're if you're chasing laurels, great.

11:57 But for the most part, there's going to be 20, 30 people in the audience. You're you're not reaching a lot of people. And we found this through a lot of the films that we've we've gone around the world with. And then the distribution part is starting to get clearer with the the mass amount of short films we've touched.

12:15 And so as we've progressed at eight years now, we're seeing what works, you know,

12:21 and that changes. I mean, that changes by the second, right? How things can be distributed. And I I talk about it in my podcast and just in general. I think that's the the most um education that would benefit uh local filmmakers is the distribution process. I think the more people that can get educated and and understand that process, the more it trickles back like you said down to a realistic script even, right? And so, um

12:47 you know, I wanted to ask that is like how did you how did you figure all this out? Obviously, you've done it yourself and tell me about you as a filmmaker and and how did you get into it? What made you want to what made you want to be in this industry? Did you always know?

13:05 Well, this is a long story. Yeah. I mean, we got like 45 minutes left. The current the current job is I'm a VP of film at NMG Network. You know, we do publications like Flux Hawaii, Hano, and things like that. So, that's a stability right now. Mhm.

13:18 But to go back in time, I started out as an actor and I wanted to be an actor in high school. We made films in high school and acting was it was the thing I wanted to do. In fact, I was on a couple shows like Beyond the Break and The Lost. Uh yes, as bit rolls. I had a recra part on Beyond the Break, but that's where like I I met Brian Kalana, you know, I met a lot of the OGs in the business. And so from there, you know, um after acting and and and getting tired of chasing the parts, I decided I wanted to create my own destiny. Yeah.

13:57 And and learn how to shoot, learn how to edit right? And and craft my own films. And and so I I I started to learn all the departments everything.

14:07 And as I progressed and as I got more comfortable with it, I became a little bit more director. Mhm.

14:15 And I I just did a lot of short films on my own and I was constantly getting in the hiff with with all the short films year after year after year until I did a feature film that I wrote and directed, you know, and Vince Kosa was one of the guys, Scott Mason, the other that helped me with that one and totally indie with no money.

14:35 Yep. And learned a lot doing that. And and what you learn most is from failure. Yeah.

14:40 And I tell people this story a lot. I made this movie called All for Melissa. You know, in Hawaii, you're embraced. Everyone loves you. But it it it's kind of what happens if you want to be a filmmaker, which is it was one of the I think the first Hawaii films, local films to ever, you know, or the first to be on the front page of Hulu.

15:02 Wow. You know, when it was still brand new, and and so we ended up on the front page of Hulu, you know, as we talked about distribution. I mean, I thought I made it because it got into blockbusters everywhere, got picked up distribution. So, I thought that was the dream and then it was on the front page of Hulu, right?

15:20 So, I was like, "Yeah, I made it." Like, this is what we dream of, right? And it was back when it was still blockbusters around, you know? So, you could you could see how far away that that was from now, right? And how much things have changed. But I remember seeing like pages and pages of like the worst comets of all time because you got to imagine this is a free movie that people are watching.

15:44 So they're they're saying stuff like this is what they show the prisoners in Guantanamo Bay. You know, this is the worst movie I've ever seen. Please make it stop. I couldn't last two minutes. Like it's the worst of all time. So much that you're curling up in a ball and you're like, did I make a bad movie? And so, and people were teasing me and all that, but that is what I tell people. That's the moment I became a filmmaker

16:08 because you could either choose to stop and quit or you're going to double down and you're going to figure out what's going to connect with the audience. Now, was the movie a failure? I would argue no because then I would after that that wave and and and also putting in context this is a free film that doesn't look like a blockbuster and and seeing the few that would cut through and be like I saw this at blockbuster I thought it was amazing and inspired me to make my own

16:36 and you hang on to that. Yeah. And then you you build on on that and then you say how are we going to uh get better? How are we going to become a better filmmaker? And maybe this didn't connect with everyone, but you know, I feel like it this is the movie I wanted to make.

16:51 Yeah. And if you are going to be a filmmaker, you need to be able to stare at that and move forward.

16:56 Yeah. I mean, I think there's different levels of acceptance you try to gain from your peers, number one, right? And then there's that level of acceptance you try to gain from everyone else. But I think the first level of acceptance that you get from your pure film making friends is um completing a project like like I I I see this um quote now on Instagram but I've thought this for a long time right it's like anybody who just completes a project I you already got my mad respect because if anybody would know what it takes to just do a project and I mean complete it like finish it. um that that takes a lot and I respect anybody doing no matter how it turns out. I got to be honest with you, you know, it's like it it might suck, but I'll still automatically give them respect.

17:47 That's 100%. And I I agree with that sentiment because what I also say is I say it took like 20 terrible short films to get to one mediocre one

17:58 to eventually figuring out what a good one is. And even to this day, I see mistakes and things I would do better with all the ones we've worked on.

18:06 Oh, yeah. You know, but definitely there was there was a point, you know, where we can identify what if it's a good movie, you know,

18:16 and so that comes after failure and a lots of failure and and adapting and getting better. How can I make it better? And you can't just do a one and done and think you're gonna be Spielberg. It's just not going to work that way. No. Yeah. Um, so when you you were an actor and do you remember when you cuz I think about that all the time. I mean I I've gotten told that even um you know with my interest of being a director or DP one day, you know, everybody asks, "Oh, what do you want to I I say the most classic, oh maybe director or DP." Um, but my good friend Jim Jo, who's a camera operator, you know, I was like, "Oh, maybe I'll get into camera and then if I'm a utility long enough, then I'll be a second, second, then, you know, a first, blah, blah, blah, and then maybe I'll operate one day and then from there I'll be a DP or have be good enough to be a um director." And he looked at me, he's

19:12 like, "Why don't you just make your own project and you be the director?" Yeah.

19:16 And it and it hit me and and it sounds silly. It sounds crazy, but honestly, that that's all it takes, you know, and for you, you know, as an actor to pivot to saying, you know what, I don't think I could fill a role better than one that I could create for myself and then going to make that film that you're the you're the actor. And I think that's a genius idea. I think a lot more people should actually go in that direction. But that sends you off into this journey of being a filmmaker and needing uh to learn how to light, how to operate a camera. Do you remember the first project that you actually made um on your own? And who worked on it? Is that any of those people still around?

19:57 Yeah. Actually, the best piece of advice was from one of my best friends who I made music videos with in Campbell High School. You know, he told me cuz he went to film school and I was thinking of going to film school to learn the ropes and he said, "Don't do that. Just take the money that you were going to take for film school and just make a movie." And that's what I did. All for most of that feature film that I talked about.

20:19 Wow. That's how I got into it. And so our first films were just down and dirty. I mean, one of my first films like I made for like 500 bucks. It was called Amazing Asian. Amazing. and and it had Paul Gata, Annie Bumatai, you know, all the comedy. Yeah. All the comedy legends cuz I was in standup at the time.

20:40 And and so we made it for like $500. And I remember someone ask, you know, asking about it and they're like, "Wow, how much did you how much uh was the budget?" I was like, " $500?" But if you gave me $5,000, I would have made Troy, you know, you know, cuz I did my own BFX. I shot it. I was in it. I directed it. I colored it. I edit. You know, you learn the most. If you can learn all the departments, you can you can figure out how to make a movie.

21:04 Yeah, for sure. You didn't actually really have to make too many short films be for h having a semisuccessful one or did it actually take you a whole bunch of short films?

21:13 A bunch of short films. It's like your first time when you do stamp comedy, you bomb. I don't I haven't seen a lot of people try the first time and like are geniuses. You usually bomb that first time. It's the same thing with film making. Yeah,

21:26 I don't see a lot coming out of the gate where you're just like you're perfect.

21:30 You you have to kind of like stumble through and figure out what works and what doesn't. And if you have no clue, then you need a team that knows, you know, and so when you're alone, that's a very lonely place to be. But like with Ohana and kind of the concept of how we think of film making, the more you can roll that that that that big boulder up the hill, you know, it's it's really hard if you're by yourself. But there comes a point where the community starts to help push that boulder. So if you could start to earn the trust of the community and they buy in, then it becomes much easier to make the film.

22:06 And that's what takes a lot of time and what takes a lot of love, you know, and and a lot of patience, too.

22:13 Yeah. What were some of the biggest challenges that you you first encountered in film making and espec specifically in in Hawaii? You're like, "Man, we don't either have this or I wish we had that." What was the like one of the first big challenges you saw?

22:30 Oh, no money. You never have money. And and this is what I always tell people. If if you want to be a filmmaker, you're never going to have money on the first go. No one's going to say, "Oh, I believe in you a million dollars." You know, you're you're you're going to need to be thrifty, crafty, and you got to be a hustler to figure out how you're going to make a movie out of nothing. And unfortunately, that's the only way you can start. I see a lot of people who start out and they want to instantly be director and I laugh,

22:56 you know, I start off as PA and I was an extra, you know, and then extra I'm forgetting start Marshall or whatever big movie. I'm there just studying like I'm hearing how they rehearse. I'm I'm learning like how they direct. Like I'm taking notes and these other people are complaining about food, you know, and I'm like I'm here to learn. And there's a there's an attitude these days where they're like complain about everything. And when when I was an extra year, I was like I was eating it up. I was like, "Let me learn the lingo. Let me learn everything." And I did everything. PA, I was yelled at, all that jazz. But I embraced it. And I think that's what a lot of people need to do.

23:35 Yeah. Uh I agree. I think just getting your foot in the door no matter what in this industry um is key. And a lot of times, every time, you're going to do that for free. You're going to be volunteering on a short film. Um who with for someone who actually, you know, is a few steps ahead of you. Um but most of them started off doing things for free. And you can learn um once your foot in is in the door in whatever position, you can learn so much, you know, and and I talked about this on the last podcast was like as a grip um it wasn't until I tried to attempt to make my first um showdown short film that it spawned on me like, hey, I can learn all these things actually as a grip. Let me go walk over to the sound cart. Let me talk to s Sean Rush and and Travis Hoover about sound and and everything.

24:26 They would get irritated about me coming over and talking about that. You know, I would go to Diane, ask her about script supervising and what's important about that. And then, of course, I got to push Dolly, which put me right next to the camera where I could hear about lens changes, sizes, framing, you know. So, as long as you get your foot in the door and you're willing to learn and wanting to learn, I think, you know, no matter where you get in, getting in is an important part.

24:53 Yep. I agree. Do you feel like what what do you feel like we need to do currently um to be more successful here in the film industry or allow the film industry to flourish a little bit more here? What is your perspective on things uh specifically as an independent filmmaker? Right. Um you've been in that arena pretty much the whole time. So it's something that I want to know um what are your challenges and what can we do to improve that? Yeah, I mean that's a lot to that to that question and I I'll try to dissect and I think

25:29 you wanted to talk about challenges of the industry, right? And I I'll start there because I think

25:34 you know there's two different worlds, you know, and that's why I think it doesn't intersect. For the longest time, my personal focus has been how do we build the community and how do we kind of lift this whole community up? How do we tell these under represented stories? is how do we give underrepresented filmmakers a voice? So, it was a different track and there's definitely a point in my in my career where I had to make a choice. I wanted to direct, but I had to step back because I said I I need to help these filmmakers

26:10 and that was Labs. And since then it's I've realized I've become more of a producer,

26:16 you know, and I'm still directing and I'm still doing stuff, but it's definitely my eyes always like, okay, what needs help? What do we need to do to build this thing? With that being said, I think we're in a period of transition. So we talk, if you've seen Babylon, it does it really well where we transition from silent films into talkis. And I believe right now we're we're transitioning from kind of this movie theater format to something that's more streaming. We're also seeing the rise of AI and we're also seeing how the size the imprint or the crew size is changing and the approach to film making is changing. The budgets are being slashed. Everything is being rethought.

27:04 Everyone is chasing tax incentives, the currency, the different government incentives. But what I truly think is happening is that we're in a period of transition. So

27:15 it's never going to look the same. It's never going to go backwards. And I always make this point that we're at the point where we're not going to see new movie theaters either.

27:23 We're now defending movie theaters. So when you accept that reality, we need to rethink our reality. And so the indie format a lot of people are calling the punk rock of film

27:37 and I would agree with that and it's and we're kind of the maggyver. So what do you do? How can you make a big film with very little money?

27:46 How can we build something with nothing? And so there's a lot of answers that could come from that. And I believe pretty firmly and I think other filmmakers would agree that we also need to rethink the payment and the sustainability of film.

28:02 So some of the ideas that we're talking about is giving equity not just to your producers or to your actors but to the whole film crew.

28:11 So that means the grip the PA everyone gets the same stake. I love that in the film.

28:16 What about the same risk though? Same what is that? What about the same risks? That's the thing you all share, right?

28:23 Because this is not a crazy idea. Sing did it with their film. It's a lowbudget film. It had Coleman Domingo. And so to buy into this format, everyone has to buy into this idea that everyone gets the same rate. So with singing, I believe Kleman Domingo got $700 a day.

28:41 Okay. That PA got $700 a day. M and Koma Domingo on the, you know, on the residuals got the same amount as that PA.

28:51 Really? I was going to, not even the residuals are scaled. No. Wow. No. So, there's that format out there. Yeah.

28:59 But that's not to say that there could be a version of that in Hawaii moving forward. M

29:04 so if we can come up with ways to make kind of micro features or things that are cheaper

29:12 and people own it now you have now the whole crew has an incentive to promote it

29:19 to want to sell it to work harder but now everyone owns it because the model that it is now

29:25 the Apple TVs or whatever they have the money but they own they own all of it right you're never going to get money you're work for hire you're going to make your money on set. That's it. Move on.

29:36 If we give everyone equity, you're gonna make money if we sell it and then we can move on and make more.

29:42 Yeah. You know, and so I believe that's a good format and something that we should investigate.

29:48 No, I I I love that. I' I've heard that idea. I think like Zena did it in one of her her things um and everybody like ended up making bank, right? Yeah. Um I think um do have you investigated that a bit on your own and seeing how that works or implied it anywhere yet?

30:06 Yes. No, we we started to talk about this on a film a couple of micro features that we're developing and so we are trying to actively pitch this as a way forward and I I firmly believe that we should be looking at it because if we're trying to find solutions, we're not going to find solutions by doing the same thing over and over again. I think we need to be radical and I think we need to try new things and we are now starting to see what takes off. I mean Cucini is up to half a million views in a month.

30:37 Wow. You know and no one knows no marketing organic word of mouth. Yeah. Like it's one of our most successful Oh short films, but it is the most successful pick film period.

30:49 So probably one of the most successful in the Pacific and it's only been a month.

30:54 Awesome. Congrats, man. Yeah. And so that's because we've I think we we tapped into culture. We tapped into genre. We tapped into to something that transcends Hawaii.

31:05 And there's things that are are going to work. And so with short films, you can figure that out. And then when you're ready to make that leap, you need someone like K Domingo who's going to buy into that equity idea. So you need kind of these stars to understand and believe as well. And that also comes with developing the talent. So if the talent is good enough, it's going to be easier to sell that, right? And so a lot of what we believe in is our local talent and building it here. But we also need help, too. So if we can get that star, we get someone to to sign up to our crazy idea,

31:41 man, we're we're going to be able to do some radical things. And there's already, I feel like, positive energy headed in a in a great direction with these community built

31:51 Yeah. features and short films. I feel like that's a lot of our possible solutions moving forward. Yeah. But also when we talk about tax incentives and lobbying, if we could build in incentives, if it's Hawaiian made,

32:06 uh if it has a Hawaii in it, culture in it, keep tacking on incentives. So then we can employ uh employ more people, but we can also cultivate and create more IP

32:17 so we can export it out of Hawaii. M yeah IP is the the the important one, the tricky one. We had your wonderful wife on here speaking about that amarisha and you know I went home from that conversation with her like yeah what is that and looking into it and

32:34 that is kind of a tricky one like how do you capture the IP of of a culture do you you know and because that's what people are are selling you know are people are buying right that's what our state is kind of selling so how do we c how do we you know that that's that's a tricky one

32:52 well I I I think It's how it's framed because you know like like uh saying aloha or anything like that and saying that's IP that would be dangerous right

33:03 but when we talk about IP we're talking about stories characters of that sort right not culture because that would be extremely dangerous and I would not advocate okay

33:12 for that because culture is not to be trademark and anything like that but what we're talking about when we talk about IP is the characters you create right the names of the characters, right? The the scenarios, the stories.

33:28 You like 1790 can't be copyrighted, right? That's not IP. But like a a Cini name so and so, right? That's IP, right? And the characters in the story, that's IP.

33:41 Oh, there we go. Right. So that's the IP we talk are talking about. Okay. So when you create something else and it has the same character, same name and things like that, that's your IP, right? It's not aloha or language or anything like that. Okay. So, I want to make sure that we separate those two, right? Because I would never advocate for that.

34:01 And you know, that that's definitely a dangerous, right? Um Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I mean, that's what when I was thinking of how tricky that's going to be. Yeah. Um but I you know once we start basically maybe looking into that formula of of everybody basically sharing um and and first of all I agree with you like we need to start thinking radically. We need to start thinking outside the box of solutions that is basically going to be help us become self- sustainable. Right? And I've said it before it's like I feel somewhat responsible. I've been only in the industry like 20 years. My dad been in it 40. I feel responsible that I was not even a part of anything cultivating a self- sustainable um system here, you know, in the littlest ways, you know, and um maybe it was a lack of leadership or pe, you know, people was just sitting pretty for so long they never thought about that or could have been greedy people at the

35:04 top. Who knows? There could have been a million reasons why we at this point haven't gotten self- sustainable yet, but it's something that we really need to, you know, and the fire has been lit under all our asses on this issue. And so people are brainstorming. Everybody got these great ideas, which is cool, but we we should all try to come together, um, work together where we're not all screaming out our ideas at everyone, whether it's, you know, politicians or studio owners or whoever it is, um, that we come together and kind of sus this thing out. I mean, guys like you, your wife, um, incredible people in the film industry, local filmmakers, producers, we all can collab and actually find a way forward if we just spent the time to sit down and at least spoke about it, right? and let everybody be heard because I've heard that too and I know that's going on that even at the state level or um

36:01 legislation and the the bills, you know, unfortunately the bill that um got left on the table last um session is is still on the table, you know, and we we want to talk about how it's going to get better. And those up uplifts like you were explaining is something we really need to sus out that'll help our independence, our lower budget films and not just fish to these big feature films which are great, our long-term shows which are great for infrastructure. But also keep in mind the people making trying to make these uh you know $20,000 $30,000 $50,000 budget because you can't qualify for the state credit and and unless it's $100,000 or more which

36:49 did come down from $200,000. So everybody's trying to work on things to get things better. It just takes communication. is going to need to be radical because we still need Chief Award to do really well to come back and right now one of the things we need to be fighting for is to bring more of that back to Hawaii

37:11 and so at the ledge level things have to happen and so whatever needs to happen hopefully that happens

37:17 but at the local level we're trying to to create more above the line jobs locally

37:23 and I don't think we've had a lot of that or maybe ever where where I just Jason Mamoa is the closest we get to someone just bringing the show,

37:32 you know, who's at the top, who who owns it, you know, but that's what we need more of if we want to create our own destinies,

37:40 right? You got the Rock, right? And I I I mean, these are all assumptions. cuz I don't know these guys personally yet, but um you know, you assume

37:50 um that they have it in their heart to want to bring things the Martin Score Stasis um movie that The Rock is, you know, trying to be a part of. Um, you're right though and and you know, would it be a dream if in one of your um shared equity scenarios, you know, you get a guy like Jason Mamoa or The Rock um you know, to bring that I guess just that spotlight on local films. I think you're you're on to something like, you know, you're on to something. I feel like Hawaii people, you know, hold Hawaii and where they're from so dearly that if they ever made it big or if they ever made it recognizable, it wouldn't matter. They would want to come back to work on a film created here by people from here, you know. So,

38:41 I would agree. And and and look, I'm not saying because it it sounds like socialism, right? But I'm not even saying that you share it equally. But I think what I'm trying to say is if you give more to the team that's building the project, they're going to invest in the project instead of like it's just like it's just a job.

39:01 Yeah. You know, and I and I got to think that film making is more than just a job for a lot of us, right?

39:09 Yeah. that I I mentioned that um you know the risk involved uh because I think and I'm not trying to defend these corporate studios or anything like that but I think it's a realistic thing that you know everybody always wants to point the um point the finger at the investors almost right the people funding the project and I try to tell people you know all the time like you know it usually takes 10 movies for you to get a banger hit. And so a lot of people are putting money out on, you know, five projects, hoping at least one of them returns investment on all all five cuz you're going to have four losers, three losers, you know, and so, you know, in that shared equity space, I think people might learn a little bit more of of the risks involved and why um the thought process of hiring, right? Why do you why do you are hellbent on hiring this particular guy from this particular place? Well, because he has a skill set

40:16 that is most likely going to give your your your film a higher chance of success and return on investment.

40:24 Yeah. And uh what what happens in kind of the the format that I'm highlighting is that if if they do well, then you're going to have your rock solid team moving forward. And anyone that's going to join your team is going to be more vetted, more, you know, making sure we have the right team and that everyone gets along, right? There's going to be no nonsense in that sort of format, right? Get out of here because you're going to take our money with you, you know? So, this sort of like you're going to get the best of the best. You get people who want to be there. I I honestly believe in my bones that that that's part of the solution. It may not be the full solution. So, do you think Cucini maybe it's um success and it's found, you know, 400,000 views in a month. Do you think that's influenced by the success of Chief of War at all? And what do you think Chief of War will do for all the films coming out uh locally

41:19 made for the Hawaiian culture specifically? Yeah, it's a good question and it's kind of hard to say, but I look and I said it, Chief of War is what is needed in the moment because it is at the highest level of visibility. It has global visibility and everyone's talking about it. And even if uh there's people who don't like it, you cannot disagree that we're talking about culture, we're talking about language, we're talking about how it looks, the costumes and everything like that. And that's a good thing. That's a great thing. And so, you know, the timing works out. So, you have something that's highly visible visible like that. And then there's a a movie like Houdini that comes out, the scrappy indie all built in Hawaii version of it, but I think it only adds to to the dialogue. It's it's a kind of like a trailer for it and it's a different story. It's not Chief of War. In fact, some of the comments that we're reading

42:20 is like, "Oh, didn't see this episode of Chief of War." And I was like, "Well, that's a compliment." I was like, "You think it's Chief of War? It is not." you know, this was totally done uh with rubber bands and paper clips. It's not the same.

42:34 But it's it's amazing. I think Chief of War has done it. It opened the door to peak people's uh peak people's interest in the many stories that Hawaiians have, the Hawaiian culture has that has been passed on for generations just orally and even written. these stories. There's so many stories that are written that are be, you know, ready to be made. And so I'm glad that in in some way, shape, or form that everyone's actually getting, you know, some some spotlight on on their projects, you know, and and do you do you plan now to go further with Cookini and those storylines or do you do you have other projects in mind spinning off that?

43:21 Yeah, I I mean, I think Jason Moa said it best. He said this is going to open up the opportunities for the next generation of filmmakers and I think specifically Hawaii filmmakers. So the timing works out and literally as I was walking to this podcast we were talking about what's next for Cookini Cini because we cannot sort of let up on this momentum that's coming from it and the enthusiasm and the sort of uh response that we're getting. There was it was always envisioned as a feature. Paula pitched it as a feature film, fully form feature film to me.

43:54 But now as we you sort of made the short, I think we all collectively were like, we could do way better. Like we did this with no money. I mean, give us some money. We're going to make this way better. We got other storylines we didn't think about that we can, you know, pull into it. Paula has ideas. The whole team has ideas. And so we're in an exciting place that we're probably going to come together and talk about it as a group because Coini is a great example that we all feel like the community rallied behind Paula's idea

44:26 and created this beautiful gift and to create it there was a lot of things that had to go right and everything had to go right or the whole thing would have fall apart and so there was a high level of risk and difficulty to stick the landing and I'm really proud proud of how, you know, it came together and Mitchell is kind of a wizard and and and going back to Oh, you know, having our first green light and then, you know, ending up with Cini kind of dominating like like it is. I'm like I'm proud of Mitchell and, you know, and and just proud of like what we're able to create together. And to me, it is a template of like how we build. And it's exactly what I was started to mention like if you make connections, if you spend time more more uh time making the connections then it's going to become easier and easier with these bigger ideas,

45:23 right? So coini required every ounce of community support. And if any of that went away, there's no Cini. If there's no, you know, um, Auola, there's no cookini, it looks lame. You know, if there's the tattoos are wrong, it looks lame.

45:42 Like, it's there's so many factors that are going on. Now, because of Chief of War, the standard is higher.

45:49 And so, if you now that's what has to be if you want to come into this arena, we're going to have to match uh this level. Yeah. You know,

45:59 that means we have to build depth, right? Like you said, if this didn't come through, we're screwed. If this didn't come through, but now if we start to add depth, I mean, you know, we deal with this, you know, with short films. If if your one guy is just so happen, you know, doing sound on another thing, you're like kind of out of luck, you know, or, you know, so but yeah, I and and and that's in every field. I I say that because we need it as grips. We need it as electricians in in every, you know, phase. We need depth. And I think I do put out there like a lot of people like, "Hey, we can do it. Hawaii can do it." There's also a part of me that knows when we will exhaust our workforce.

46:42 And honestly, it's, you know, two shows and we're kind of exhausted, right? You know, a feature film and a show, you know so

46:51 adding that depth is critical. And and like you said, we got to be honest. We got to be honest with ourselves if we want to up the level of our games is we got to be we got to bring ourselves up to the standards that we're expected to be if and if not exceed those standards.

47:07 It's exactly right. And the way we look at it because you know we're starting to get more serious is that we are competing against the world. It's not against the continent. We're competing against the globe, the world.

47:18 And we're always hitting barriers of, you know, as far as you could possibly push it. But we need to break through all the barriers. And what I mean about barriers is certain festivals will have you know won't take the Hawaii films or you know Hawaii films will only go so far no matter how good they are. So we need to break through that and I think Chief of War is going to break through that

47:42 going to do that for us. So to Jason's point, it'll break through and now we we now have a hole to kind of break through with him because like Kini was was out and about before Chief War, but now it looks like it's trailblazing only after the fact, right? Like it's it's kind of hard to go after the fact like, "Hey guys, uh I kept saying, you know, this is one of a kind."

48:06 Yeah. And like you said, the film festivals will do the same. It's like, "Oh, look, a Hawaiian film with culture and um language like we got to have that," you know, as opposed to it not being accepted before. And you know, it's a little bit, you know, you get rubbed the wrong way, you know, when you see that kind of stuff like, "Oh, now you're interested, you know, cuz something's trending." But yeah,

48:28 that is the way of the world. It is. Where do you see Oh Labs moving? Um do do you do you like the way it is now? and and you feel like that process is locked in over there at Ohena Labs or is there still a lot that you're like, "Oh, we we can do this and this better."

48:47 Now you're getting into exciting questions. Um so, and not not to say, you know, building the industry is exciting, but Oh, Labs is going to double down. You know, this is a time that we have to double down. I feel like this is the moment. It's the same thing when I said when I became a filmmaker. Either you quit or you're gonna double down in this moment where funding is being stripped and our opportunities are going away. So we got a lot of exciting things that are coming up and you know I've been working on this film about the micronian youth and cam for housing with Sunny Ganagan and we're really proud of the film. It was a film that we made no money at first you know just ran out made a movie but now we're kind of introducing these radical ideas.

49:26 Remember I mentioned radical in term in ter terms of like structure equity and things like this but even rethinking how you make a movie and so with the arrangements um these are real kids they're not actors you know we're telling a story that's real in camp for housing and it's from his experience as a representative in Khi

49:46 and so you know we stepped in knowing full well that this may fall apart and be a failure

49:53 we we somehow someway made a movie you know you know, and it's going to film festivals, but that's not the exciting part. The exciting part is we're making this thing, and I was talking to Randy Wong at the Hawaii Youth Symphony, and so they're like, "Hey, you know, we're we're thinking, is there any way we can collaborate with music and and film and things like that?" And I go, I got an idea. They're arrangements. We're making this film. How about if the youth symphony scores this film for youth? And so right now uh Michael Thomas Fumi who's a composer um at um Hawaii youth not Hawaii youth the proper symphony uh you know Hawaii symphony um but he's composing something that the youth symphony is going to score at HPR.

50:42 They're they're partnering with it and they're gonna they're going to make this score in a couple weeks, you know, for this film about, you know, underrepresented youth, Micronians who are discriminated against in Hawaii. And now we we start a dialogue in the community. They're like, I never knew this existed. I never knew these kids existed. I didn't know this was an issue. And now we have the these kids have never heard that either now performing for these kids. with the idea that eventually we want to to have them play live to the film in the movie theater

51:17 and take this on the road, you know. Yeah, that's unlocking a whole another thing that we haven't ever

51:24 tapped into scoring post just a whole bunch of post-p production things. But, you know, to see it live and and really open the minds of other arts that can be, you know, interwoven into what we're doing and, you know, it's nothing new. It's been happening elsewhere. And like you said, like tapping into it. That's genius

51:45 because I remember I talked about connections. Yeah. So, now we're connecting with an organization that no one reached out to. And so, whenever we say that this is our idea, they're like, "We never thought about it." It's because we made a connection. We started talking and you start to find these new connections because we need to be radical with how we move forward. When we do things like that,

52:05 it's easy for the community to rally, you know, and this is what I talked about the boulder up there. The more hands, the more connections and the more people buy into it, it becomes easier because now when I tell the story and I tell what we're doing now, everyone wants to help. Oh, you're doing that. I want that's revolutionary that never tried that. that you sympathize is like we never tried that oh this is this is exciting let's do it and now other filmmakers like oh could I do that you know but then your theater experience now changes right it's something different it's exciting

52:37 and this is the sort of thing that oh he is talking about now we're talking about maybe adding a producers lab there's not enough producers we need more producers if we're going to create more stories right now it's it's a bottleneck there's not too many producers who are

52:52 willing to do this work that are kind of willing to to kind of push these these crazy ideas forward.

53:00 That's one part of it. And the the other part of it is that we want to bring in more mentors and we're going to we're going to reach for bigger mentors, but we're also want to have our alumni come back

53:13 because we're at the point where the alumni are good enough to be mentors. Yeah.

53:16 And we want to keep our hands in the dirt and still build it. But now we, you know, we're going to get to the point where we want to do micro features. We want to do feature films and we want to get to the point where we are creating sustainable jobs

53:33 for people here. I think that's great. All incredible ideas. How does someone get involved with Ohana Labs? Is it very selective like you said? What is the selection process like?

53:44 Yeah, so Oh, everything Oha, unless it changes is always been free. So uh at the start of this podcast I said how showcase was free and so it was donations and that's how they they did everything to this day um labs is free showcase is free showcase is basically whatever comes out of labs now it was different before but whatever is produced from labs becomes showcase and so it's totally free for anyone to apply we it's already closed but how it's elective is actually a very democratic process. Uh the way that we do it now is alumni of the program are kind of our first round.

54:27 So people who've gone through lab look at all the scripts. There's letters and there's bios and we try to look at the people and the project and kind of look at it kind of like a organic approach to it. So we we talk to alumni. We also talk to um former mentors and current mentors and then kind of the team does a kind of a chime in with everything and it's like two or three rounds before we get to the final 10

54:55 and and I think I think it goes through as much of a gauntlet to make it as fair as possible.

55:01 How many applications are you getting per year now? We're up to like 250. They come from around the world.

55:08 Really? Yeah. And we keep saying this is why only really this why base and people are trying to get in and we're like no. So, so it sounds like what you bring a rough draft of a of a script that you've been working on, then you kind of, you know, turn in a bio, maybe a resume, and you How is that? Is that online that you're turning all this in or

55:28 Yeah, it's all online through film freeway, you know, and you know, our website's a little rough because we just been focused on other things,

55:36 but um yeah, it's usually through Film Freeway and that's how you can submit. Do you ever have people come at you as maybe a team like someone who has worked, you know, with a team to create the script that they have so far?

55:50 Yeah. And that's happened a few times where there's a fully formed team. They come through labs just to sharpen it up and then it's off and running. Good example is one that's in the is being made right now called Spammed.

56:01 You may have seen it. Uh they have their cute fundraiser going on right now. We we funded half of the film, you know, um thanks to uh Georgia Debbed and Creative Industries for helping Oh, with that part of it.

56:16 And they already have a team. Chapen Hall and Kimani Koser and um Lee Johnson came through the lab as a team. Um and now they're they're kind of fully going for it.

56:28 What would put somebody at as a front runner to get into labs? like just from your your one uh seat in this democratic process of onboarding everyone.

56:39 Yeah. Everyone gets angry at me, they don't get in. You know, I've had so many haters and I'm like, do you know how hard like I've been rejected and this is I don't have any say. I I mean maybe I have a little say, but it's it is fully like there's a lot of people looking at this,

56:54 right? And the thing is it just needs to be a unique voice. It just needs to come through like a unique voice because I share this all the time. Mitchell was like the last guy in labs. He was alternative, you know, on that first round with KVA and look how that turned out. You know, Sunny Gan again last in the lab, you know, alt as well. And it's because maybe the script wasn't sharp enough or there was something where everyone was like not in agreement. And if you could get into the labs, then you can there's a pitch and it's a little bit more um beyond the script. So what I would encourage people, it's not just the script, it's the whole package. So if you can write in the letter like what makes you special, why why your voice, why this story, why it matters. I mean that's a lot of Oha. A lot of our films have been community oriented like how are we going to make a difference? Film does have the power to change. How are

57:52 you going to make a change? You know, we are at the point where I think the stories we're telling have a change. Make a change. Even if it's a funny script or if it's comedy, we're looking for something that's going to do something. You know, it's not just

58:07 a romantic comedy for sake of romantic comedy. Right. Yeah. Is it romantic comedy? It takes place in Chinatown

58:14 and it talks about some of the issues that are happening there. Now we're getting warmer. Right. Right.

58:18 Do you try to do that? try to find genre C like okay we want this many in this genre or not really it just plays out how it plays out

58:26 we really don't care about genres but I'll be honest genres are the ones that do well right yeah so the first one was sci-fi that went uh crazy and and the one we got now action adventure right

58:36 are you a sci-fi guy uh yeah you know yeah but we we there's you know no preference when it comes to oh he

58:44 it's eclectic have you had people um apply for oh mult multiple years and continue to try. Do you advise that and you tell people keep trying?

58:55 Yes. We've seen multiple entries by the same people and sometimes it takes three times and they eventually get in which is a huge win. And then we've had a few it took them three times they got in and they got in the next year too.

59:07 So you can't it's not just a one and done with Ohana. You could actually come back again, right?

59:13 And we've had a lot of repeat uh different script. Yeah. different script or different team, you know, and it's exciting to see their progress and how they progress as writer directors and sometimes maybe they don't want to direct and so they need to look for a team

59:29 and so you know we help with those connections as well. You need a DP, you need this

59:34 but on the other side on the community side that DP needs to be willing to do it for you know peanuts

59:40 free. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so that's the thing and that's why I end up dping myself or you know it's a lot of us picking up the slack.

59:47 Yeah, I love that part. Um I don't love to pay on that part but you know I love being uh able to sit there and and I know you know when you're giving your free time or you know working for very minimal. One thing that um helps me out be present in the moment and give my time is knowing that whatever project that I'm giving my time for is going to take that project with a passion complete it number one because I've been on a lot of free projects that don't even get completed and then have actually an opportunity to make a change in the world number one and be successful maybe out at film festivals or you know beyond you know so I think that's a a good bit of advice for anyone someone asking for some free help. Have a plan with the film that you're trying to do, you know, whether it's local distribution or or beyond.

1:00:40 We also try not to do it free, you know, to be clear. Um, we we have a format that works. We do a most favored nations to kind of, you know, mirror that whole equity thing that I talked about. Cool.

1:00:53 So, we try to pay the actors and the crew the same rate. So, the only thing that's going to be outside of that is the crew uh equipment rentals and things like that can be sometimes a little more, but that's how we think we keep it fair and then people can show up and feel like they got something out of it, you know, some money, you know, and we get to make something. So, just so it's not it's hard for me to say free, you know, unless it's like a prop or something like that.

1:01:22 Yeah. So, if you're not a writer, but you want to help on Ohhino films, is there a way to do that? Is that a selective process or you guys are careful with that?

1:01:32 No, that's more tricky because these are all different teams. So, I I I think that's the hard part because we always have a lot of people who want to help.

1:01:40 Yes. And it's hard because it's it's um it's not like it's one, you know, one place, one portal.

1:01:47 It's all these different teams, right? we're we're at labs and um that's where all the workshopping happens. Then after that they kind of go free into the world, right? And they're they're doing their own thing. Sometimes they'll come back asking for help and that's when we can say hey so and so might be a good fit for you. But, you know, I've I've had some radical adventures. Um, you know, where, you know, for a league king, you know, starring Brandon Finn, uh, they were working in Utah. And I said, "Hey, if you need help dping, I'm your last resort. Just call me, you know. Um, and a month out they did call and they said, "Hey, can we take you up on that offer?" Couldn't find anyone here locally. Uh, can you pack up your camera and go? And I did, you know, packed up there. um said, "Don't pay me." Um brought my my red and a couple things in a little bag and made the movie with that thing. You know,

1:02:45 I saw um some of those pictures that you posted. Beautiful locations. It came out nice.

1:02:51 Yeah, it was it was radical. Yeah. As we come to a close here, I always um like to ask um if you had to give one bit of advice to the local filmmaker, maybe a youngster or someone's considering maybe giving up, what would you tell them?

1:03:08 I I think that's a tricky one because the first thing I would say is you need to love this if you want to do it, you know? And I think I've I've touched on it, right? Like if you really want to do it and you you get flamed or people go after you like you got to embrace that. If you really want to do this like the Spillbergs and all that, not everyone loves those movies. And at the tippy top there's going to be more people who want to bring you down.

1:03:36 And so if you truly want to do this, like you got to be all in. Like this got to be in your blood. And I tell this because I taught at Monoa and I would say this and you know the C students would think that that was good enough and I was like no in this industry you got to be like star like a star quality person and you know the perfect example I I I give is all for Melissa. We're going to go back to that. I'm going to try to freaking bookmark this thing. But you know one of the PAs on that was Dana Leoo Miller. That was her very first job on any movie. And now she's a writer director on Moana, too, you know, and she was a rock star. She was the best PA. She was the best at everything. And just like a month or two ago, you know, Moana was doing his thing and she was like, "Thank you for letting me get the snacks." You know, and that's really what it takes. That's the kind of attitude you're going to need to get in

1:04:35 this industry. We're in a tough spot now, but it's in, like I said, transition. Once we get through transition, it's going to get exciting again. It's just going to look different, but there's going to be opportunity.

1:04:46 Great. And um, you know, I know you're you're running probably to create another film, but

1:04:53 Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm happy to talk about the favorites because that's the hard one.

1:04:56 Yes. Yes. What is your favorite project that you've you've worked what what has meant the most to you maybe? um whether it was making the project or the outcome of the project itself.

1:05:09 Yeah. And I was thinking about this long and hard. So that's why I was like um because like I said, they're all your babies, right? That you especially of Oh, you're you're rooting for all of them. So it becomes rough when you're competing against one another, you know, in in some awards thing, right? And it just becomes like you're you're falling apart. Um but um the movie there's I gotta say there's two is a cheap but you know the one that was really special was Koha Kai the journey of the marry monarch. I did it at work at NMG and it was one of those those creative briefs where they they walk me in they're like you know if it's not good we're going to we're going to cancel it or no one's going to see it and you know no pressure and just keep shooting till you figure it out. And it became one of the most beautiful films we've ever created. I didn't have much knowledge of Mary Monarch and the way it

1:06:01 came together just kind of organically in a in a in a way that it did was just like one of those moments in your life where you're like this is going to change me forever knowing the the hula hala and and getting to know him better. I mean, it really made me want to get even deeper and more rooted here in Hawaii, you know. And then going from that into something like Cucini

1:06:28 was like um it's just there's no words. I mean I I have to share coin because it's amazing because Paula had this dream this this idea that I thought was crazy and we somehow found a way which I still am amazed but she says she's magic and I believe it because I will share this this is why and they say it in chief war you know when kina is coming up and there's a rainbow you know and there's signs well on that first day of kini you know and Brian came along is there and lean minor. We have heavyweights there and we're way behind and it takes like seven hours to do makeup and I think we get an hour to shoot. Um, and Iwane is in the makeup chair and he looks down and there's a puo feather. And if you seen the movie, it's all about his Amaku is a pouo.

1:07:25 And all throughout shooting, we would see feathers. We would see pouo and there in the day of the fires we were doing a scene with Moses Goods who's from Maui and three Puo flying over you know and that's when you know you're doing something right you know and you know that's what we're talking about that's what we live for is something that transcends and no greater feeling when you when you see that. How can you watch Kukini or um the other project that you worked on?

1:07:59 Kahua Kai is on auto Hawaiian Airlines planes and the inflight entertainment. It's also online through NMG and um Kini is now online on YouTube. U just killing it. So yeah.

1:08:12 Well, if it's okay with you, we'll put a link please do somewhere episode and hopefully you guys are set up for that profit sharing thing. No, this is all about saving pick right now. They need our help. So,

1:08:27 yeah. Yeah, they do. Thank you, Gerard, man. It's been an honor and I'm I'm just I'm honored that you accepted this invitation to this podcast and I think a lot of people uh need to hear the things that you have brought to the industry so far, so for so long. um seeing the faces that are are part of this industry and trying to grow it, not only for a whole industry, but for the people of Hawaii and their culture and their stories. So, I thank you everybody. Thanks you for being here. Um you know what? I hope I get to come and speak to you again here at some point down the line.

1:09:04 Yeah, love to appreciate you, man. Yeah, appreciate you. Aloha.

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "Radical Change is Coming to Hawaiʻi Film | Gerard Elmore on Kukini, Equity & Mentorship"?

In order: 0:00 Cucini, Cucini, Black Panther, Criterion; 10:00 NMG Network; 30:00 Cucini, Cucini; 40:00 Chief of War, Chief of War, Cookini, Hawaiian culture; 50:00 Hawaii Youth Symphony, Ohana Labs; 1:00:00 Cucini, Cucini, Kahua Kai.

What is mentioned in this The Big Picture episode?

21 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Cucini, Cucini, Chief of War, Chief of War, Cookini, NMG Network. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Radical Change is Coming to Hawaiʻi Film | Gerard Elmore on Kukini, Equity & Mentorship"?

The episode runs 1 h 9 min; the transcript is about 13,082 words in 211 timestamped sections.

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