Transcript

A Two Week NBA Check in With Big Wos and Jake Paul on Changing Boxing and Influencer Culture

From The Bill Simmons Podcast · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 33 min · 16,986 words · 96 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "A Two Week NBA Check in With Big Wos and Jake Paul on Changing Boxing and Influencer Culture", an episode of The Bill Simmons Podcast published November 12, 2021 (1 h 33 min, about 16,986 words). It mentions 41 people, works and ideas, including Alex Caruso, Lakers, Marcus Smart, Kyle Lowry, Jimmy Butler.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Jimmy Butler, Kyle Lowry, PJ Tucker, Lakers
  2. – 20:00: Alex Caruso, Lakers, Bradley Beal, DeMar DeRozan
  3. – 30:00: Marcus Smart, Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum, Kyle Lowry
  4. – 40:00: John Collins, Cam Reddish, Lakers, Marcus Smart
  5. – 50:00: Cavaliers, Lakers
  6. – 1:20:00: Tommy Fury, Tyson Fury
  7. – 1:30:00: Browns, Baker Mayfield
  8. – 1:33:12: Boxing Bullies

Notable quotes from "A Two Week NBA Check in With Big Wos and Jake Paul on Changing Boxing and Influencer Culture"

  • Teams going all different directions that we thought weren't talking about all of them do a little lakers little zion and then jake paul who has a big fight coming up next…
    about Lakers · at
  • The offense what we're seeing with cal lowry what he's doing for their pace we don't think of kyle lowry as a pace guy anymore but even at age 34 35 whatever he is he's still a pace dude and i think a lot of people had tyler.
    about Kyle Lowry · at
  • Last eight minutes of the game when we needed baskets i was going nuts but the caruso piece where they lose patrick williams didn't think like oh my god they lost their best…
    about Alex Caruso · at
  • As this season is starting to slip away a couple weeks in and we have jason tatum here you know still recruiting bradley beal it's like worry about your own [ __ ] team dude you're 23.
    about Jason Tatum · at
  • The hierarchy on that team is a weird one because marcus smart was always the teacher's pet with stephens and the other two guys were the best.
    about Marcus Smart · at
  • Pretty defined roles in the sense that the second best player is john collins and he's not a ball dominant person right and i'm watching him last night against a pretty damn good wizards team and collins does everything that you.
    about John Collins · at
  • And that's what it sort of always has been so boom perfect tommy fury 7-0 undefeated fighter same weight same height same reach you know comes from a legendary bloodline his brother's tyson fury the.
    about Tommy Fury · at
  • Have to but we have a couple things before you go one browns are you following or no do you have the directv in puerto rico or you're out this season yeah no i'm following i'm following as much as i can it's you have to.
    about Browns · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Alex Caruso — Person · 8 mentions · first at
  • Marcus Smart — Person · 6 mentions · first at
  • Kyle Lowry — Person · 4 mentions · first at
  • Jimmy Butler — Person · 4 mentions · first at
    Knew when you have pj tucker kyle lowry bam adebayo jimmy butler you're gonna defend the hell out of people but offensively they look better than we thought they would i like how you called it a comeback season it's his.
  • PJ Tucker — Person · 3 mentions · first at
    In a way where it's like all right we knew when you have pj tucker kyle lowry bam adebayo jimmy butler you're gonna defend the hell out of people but offensively they look better than we thought they would i like how.
  • Zion Williamson — Person · 3 mentions
  • Tyler Hero — Person · 2 mentions · first at
    Even at age 34 35 whatever he is he's still a pace dude and i think a lot of people had tyler hero having a comeback season but he's doing it my man cooper moorhead tweeted out a stat today where he's.
  • Jason Tatum — Person · 2 mentions · first at
  • Bradley Beal — Person · 2 mentions · first at
    A couple weeks in and we have jason tatum here you know still recruiting bradley beal it's like worry about your own [ __ ] team dude you're 23.
  • John Collins — Person · 2 mentions · first at
  • Tommy Fury — Person · 2 mentions · first at
  • LaMelo Ball — Person · 2 mentions
  • Logan Paul — Person · 2 mentions
  • Atlantis Morissette — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Films coming the first one will be jagged about atlantis morissette that is november 18th thursday night hbo and on hbo max right away and then the next four thursdays dmx.
  • Kenny G — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Thursdays dmx kenny g robert stigwood juice world i am so proud of this series it's been a three-year odyssey and can't wait for everyone to watch if you want to watch the trailer go to my twitter feed.
  • Robert Stigwood — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Thursdays dmx kenny g robert stigwood juice world i am so proud of this series it's been a three-year odyssey and can't wait for everyone to watch if you want to watch the trailer go to my twitter feed.
  • Michael Mann — Person · 1 mention · first at
    It happened we reeled in the director of heat michael mann we did the three heat the third time we've done heat but we had to do it a third time because michael mann joined us and we broke down the film.
  • Joe House — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Missed it check out the rewatchables don't forget to check out the prestige tv podcast as well joe house and i broke down the second episode of career enthusiasm there coming up big wise wozniak lambre is going to come.
  • Bam Adebayo — Person · 1 mention · first at
    In a way where it's like all right we knew when you have pj tucker kyle lowry bam adebayo jimmy butler you're gonna defend the hell out of people but offensively they look better than we thought they would i like how.
  • Lonzo Ball — Person · 1 mention · first at
    The ball sends defenses into a tailspin and then of course the lonzo ball of it all where you know there's just something about his smarts on the court his understanding of what defenses are.
  • DeMar DeRozan — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Loved their offseason obviously some people were whatever they were about demar derozan and the price tag etc but barley caruso that it's just been incredible to watch them i did not like the derozan trade and.
  • Vucevic — Person · 1 mention · first at
    To double tate them and we're going to make this really hard for you and thank god you're not putting vucevic in a pick-and-roll we're screwed because we did that twice in…
  • Jalen Brown — Person · 1 mention · first at
    For it to ultimately matter right like i think about like let's just say you replace tim hardaway jr with jaylen brown like it's obvious that works with luka right because it's like oh we have another one-on-one breakdown.
  • Cam Reddish — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Their touches are hunter and cam reddish where it's just like excuse me like you can cry about it but we don't actually have to take you seriously quarter got paid already bogey's.
  • Tyson Fury — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Height same reach you know comes from a legendary bloodline his brother's tyson fury the heavyweight champion of the worlds if that's not a real enough boxer then i don't i don't know what is and so i've.
  • Baker Mayfield — Person · 1 mention · first at
    To watch it here in puerto rico oh jesus yeah the browns are in trouble mayfield's got a ravaged left shoulder it just it looks like they're in trouble beckham was trying to get traded.
  • Al Horford — Person · 1 mention
  • Clint Capela — Person · 1 mention
  • DMX — Person · 1 mention
  • Evan Mobley — Person · 1 mention
  • Juice WRLD — Person · 1 mention
  • Zion — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

  • Woodstock 99 — Book · 1 mention · first at
    Launching on hbo on november 18th you might remember we did a sneak preview this summer the woodstock 99 dock that was the first film we have five more films coming the first one will be jagged about atlantis morissette that is november.

Companies & orgs

  • Lakers — Company · 7 mentions · first at
  • HBO — Company · 3 mentions
  • Browns — Company · 2 mentions · first at
  • Cavs — Company · 2 mentions
  • NBA — Company · 2 mentions
  • Fanduel Sportsbook — Company · 1 mention · first at
  • Cavaliers — Company · 1 mention · first at
    To stay i've said it before i'm gonna say it again this feels very 2018 cavaliers-ish to me for the team they started with in october november versus the team they have in march i think will look different what do you.
  • Boxing Bullies — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Raise awareness about it cool what's the url yeah boxing bullies dot com b-u-l-l-i-e-s all right cool all right good luck next month good luck with the fight thank you bill i really appreciate it.

Full transcript with timestamps

hey if you missed it we announced that the music box series is launching on hbo on november 18th you might remember we did a sneak preview this summer the woodstock 99 dock that was the first film we have five more films coming the first one will be jagged about atlantis morissette that is november 18th thursday night hbo and on hbo max right away and then the next four thursdays dmx kenny g robert stigwood juice world i am so proud of this series um it's been a three-year odyssey and can't wait for everyone to watch if you want to watch the trailer go to my twitter feed and you will see it musicbox november 18th hbo and hbo max we're also brought to you by fanduel sportsbook where we hit our underdog parlay of the week on million dollar picks last week they boosted it to plus 800 and we made some people some money can we do it again stay tuned for million dollar picks on thursday we'll be

announcing which underdog parliament we're boosting we'll do the rest of the million dollar picks also brought to you by the ringer podcast network where on the rewatchables it happened we reeled in the director of heat michael mann we did the three heat the third time we've done heat but we had to do it a third time because michael mann joined us and we broke down the film and it seemed like people really liked it i loved doing it it was great talking to him will there ever be a four heat i don't know we might this might be a mic drop with the three heat but if you missed it check out the rewatchables don't forget to check out the prestige tv podcast as well joe house and i broke down the second episode of career enthusiasm there coming up big wise wozniak lambre is going to come on to talk about the east what do we make of the east teams going all different directions that we thought weren't talking about

all of them do a little lakers little zion and then jake paul who has a big fight coming up next month but i had never had a paul brother on the pod i wanted to find out about this whole influencer culture and how it ties into boxing and all that kind of stuff so that is the podcast for today first our friends from project

all right big wise is here i was going to do like a little solo nba thing tonight and then i looked at the schedule and it was a disaster and i i called waz it was a little after four o'clock pacific time i'm like let's just shoot [ __ ] about nba for a half hour because the games suck and there's good story lines that i care about let's taka let's talk east first the east we're two weeks in i'm not i'm not ready to say the east is wide open and we know this is a marathon not a sprint but we know a couple things we know james harden is not in shape we know kyrie irving isn't playing we know milwaukee is already like guys are missing games stuff like that we know your hawks offensively do not look the same but the biggest thing from the first two weeks is that miami has the look and i didn't know they were going to do this i thought this was going to be a cruise through the regular season

turn it on in the playoffs team they kind of have the look do you see it yeah i do see it and obviously we came into the season understanding that they would be one of the best if not the best defensive team in the nba but i think on the offense what we're seeing with cal lowry what he's doing for their pace um we don't think of kyle lowry as a pace guy anymore but even at age 34 35 whatever he is he's still a pace dude and i think a lot of people had tyler hero having a comeback season but he's doing it um my man cooper moorhead tweeted out a stat today where uh he's under 30 minutes a game or he's like at like 30 minutes a game but he's at a 30 usage and a lot of that is play making and so he's taking a step offensively for them in a way where it's like all right we knew when you have pj tucker kyle lowry uh bam adebayo jimmy butler you're gonna defend the hell out of people but offensively they look better

than we thought they would i like how you called it a comeback season it's his third year in the league but it really was he sucked last year his rookie cards went in the tank everybody got upset and it was it seemed a little fluky but there were signs in the preseason because he was kicking ass and they figured out how to use him he comes off the bench as this like you know like the old school jamal crawford kind of he comes in he takes over your offense he does stuff i'm with you on the pace i didn't expect that from lowry i i guess i didn't read enough about the heat i was i took them seriously as a possible you know fringe contender when we got into the spring and maybe even a real contender some things gelled but i didn't realize they were gonna be as kind of dynamic i didn't realize they were gonna be a good league past team yeah and you know the problem to build when you have a team that sits veteran

laden as them we think of veteran teams as switch teams um we'll talk about the hawks later on but like veteran teams are generally switch teams like i think the lakers are a switch team um in the sense that it's just like look 82 games my bones are old like i've been through the playoff crucible i i like i'm not one of these teams that thinks i know what it takes like i actually have the knowledge of what it takes to get through the grind of a postseason i'm not doing this regular season stuff but these guys have come out on a mission and they play with vigor every single night and it's it's been really cool to watch i was thinking about the six degrees of ben simmons how if jimmy butler liked playing with ben simmons wow i think he stays in philly right yeah because they had something they were pretty close that year and that was the best we've seen of simmons in the playoffs even though he wasn't you had

all the limitations he had the other years but at least you know that that team was the closest i think out of all those philly teams to actually looking like something and then butler i don't know whether philly was afraid because the more he had the ball maybe that took some stuff away from simmons embiid maybe he sniffed something out with simmons that he didn't like if you read the tea leaves it does seem like he didn't feel like those guys took it seriously enough but he was way more team embied than team simmons and he goes to miami and that opens the door the miami being a good team comes down to the band pick which was a great pick the coin flip with the celtics to land in the spot that gets the tyler pick butler deciding he doesn't like philly the same year they have the cap space and then them pulling off this lowry thing because the heat culture and jimmy and all that and then you look at it

it's like this is a pretty unusual way to build the contender they didn't have the lottery pick in place they didn't you know they didn't really completely tank pretty shrewd i'm impressed you know it's interesting because i think a lot of us you included bill have been pretty like i-rolly about this concept of heat culture uh but at the same time i think what it really means is about setting a pecking order and and jimmy's previous two stops when it came to like the sixers and it's like there's no established pecking order you guys are kissing ben simmons's ass this guy's not that good yeah you're enabling him yeah it doesn't want it that bad i'm out of here this is ridiculous culturally and the same could be said about wiggins and carl towns but jimmy's like why are we cow talent to these kids uh they're not that good they don't take it seriously enough this culture is ridiculous because again he started out

with tibs so then he goes to miami and it's like all right see this all makes sense like we understand that everything flows from the top with riley and spoelstra and all of them and then like we establish a culture where everybody's held accountable etc etc and then of course like you said they land on bam they have the like the type of place where the minute pj tucker lands in their building like it's making sense right like he's the type of player that fits perfectly into what they're doing and you know to get tyler hero to sort of define a role for him that takes a certain level of thinking and emotional intelligence on the part of the organization to be like all right here's where this piece perfectly fits and then you know the player development stuff with people like duncan robinson is legendary good shooters yeah and it's funny because not everyone fits in with that team right iguodala never seemed

like he totally fit in be lisa sure you know he finally finds a home in golden state i'll never be able to say his name correctly um but you know it's it's it seems like it's certain type of guys but the butler lauer thing's been great so far it's really alpha doggy there's like they seem like they should be hanging out on a porch with their shirts off just just being alphas but you know the thing about it is that they're both so psychotic about their profession that they feel like kindred spirits is like we are so in tune it's almost telepathic about what we think basketball is and how people should go about the business of basketball then again this this is no-brainers like these kinds of like kyle lowry pj tucker jimmy butler bam out of bio these guys are so obviously heat people and so that's working doesn't seem that you know you know uh crazy to me however you know well that result

it's early and last year we got to go 34 weeks here right jimmy's had the injury stuff lowry is getting way older like hopefully these guys hold up but i'm not surprised that it's working it makes sense so i'm not ready to say i was wrong about the heat as a regular season team but it looks like i'm heading that way i still i wonder about the older guys and especially if they're gonna play at this pace but i really like what i see from them they're really fun to watch the bulls who i've seen a lot of um i still don't love them defensively now of course the celtics couldn't exploit it last night because of myriad strategy problems that that team has oh my god i didn't want to talk about them i know we're going to um defensively a little better than i thought i thought they were going to be like a turnstile vusavich though like of course the celtics only attacked him twice in the last eight minutes of the game when we

needed baskets i was going nuts but the caruso piece where they lose patrick williams didn't think like oh my god they lost their best perimeter defender caruso came in they can go a little small ballish with caruso derozan he's not awful defensively he's he's he's a smart enough player that he's not gonna be horribly out of position but you know you run him through enough screens right like that it's it's over but it's like how joking joking knows where to go right he's not he's not like a complete catastrophe so anyway they're a little better defensive than i thought but man that team gets good shots it was really frustrating last night um i i liked all the shots they got when they were coming back it wasn't just that boston kind of fell apart a little bit and missed some wide open shots things like that but then you go on the other end and every time ball's moving around balls finding the

right people they have two guys they know they can go to boost [ __ ] didn't play well last night so i'm i'm a little higher on them than i think i was two weeks ago where do you stand i was never low on the buzz although you know i was talking to goff uh earlier today on his show about the bulls and i think a couple of bulls fans hit me was like oh you hated on the move i was like i like i thought it made sense as far as derozan being over the years he's cultivated his game to become more of a playmaker like in san antonio he was their de facto point guard so he has that in him as far as elite play-making on the ball type of stuff and levine was gonna be levine he didn't have to shoulder the burden and he could when you got somebody you could shoot like that it opens everything else up right like he can be dangerous off the ball with his movement not just cutting him as a screen setter like that center

sends a defense into a tizzy right like when a guy who's that good at shooting is himself setting amazing screens we saw we've seen that in golden state over the years with both steph and clay thompson where what they're doing off the ball sends defenses into a tailspin and then of course the lonzo ball of it all where you know there's just something about his his smarts on the court his understanding of what defenses are trying to do and his willingness to get it out quick quick quick quick quick in transition and just in the half court where it's like he's not taking 20 000 dribbles and then giving it up he's getting it making a read quick pass it just all makes sense and you know we're here in l.a bill so we we understand the caruso sanity stuff in a different way but i think people around the country was like all right this is just a laker guy getting way more attention than he deserves but no

um caruso comes on the court he changed the complexion of the game his physicality on defense his instincts his athleticism where he's disrupting all kinds of things and he's a menacing transition i just think once they brought ball and caruso and i loved their offseason obviously some people were whatever they were about demar derozan and the price tag etc etc but barley caruso that it's just been incredible to watch them i did not like the derozan trade and i think i might have been wrong because it's not like they gave up anything you know they basically thad young's not even playing for the spurs two thoughts one the lonzo thing kills me because that's how i wanted the celtics summer to go i wanted them to trade smart for lonzo i was hoping it was headed that way that new orleans is like oh smart veteran presence for our guys and and that that would be the move but it seems like that bulls thing was done

with lonzo for long enough that they might get a tampering sort of something but it's a bummer because i just think lonzo fun to play with doesn't need the ball is the type of guy that would be perfect for the cells the caruso thing i was thinking about the bubble where you think like there's a lot of reasons they won and i i think adande on my pod a couple weeks ago made the key point about where they had this rest time where they were able to recharge their batteries which was great for lebron right he had to go 10 weeks he was awesome yeah and that was physically about as good as he's ever going to look in a playoffs at the ages at but they had three wings that were pretty high level defenders kcp danny green caruso and all those guys are down not on the lakers i don't want to do a lakers tangent but they have no wings now they have nobody to defend really anybody and they just threw that

away and it's weird to me that they didn't understand like i think a pretty big piece of why they won other than having davis and lebron was the flexibility they had defensively with those perimeter guys i mean the only thing i've heard trotted out with caruso because caruso just seemed felt like a money dump at the time that was just yeah completely unnecessary but they said in order to get guys like um monk and other people to come in on really cheap deals was they had to promise them playing time and so in order to get a few guys for the one they had to let caruso go i just thought but they picked they picked court and tucker over him though which again that's where i have a problem i don't know if you just look at the lineup data of lebron and caruso on the court together over the last few years they are just smoking people he became like one of the best teammates to put on the floor next to lebron like what they

would with him lebron and a.d would accomplish in transition is was just amazing and it was another way for the lakers to generate buckets while not having to be in the half court all the time and we know over the years people did the concern trolling about their shooting which some of it some of it was warranted but for me it was just like this this unit is so elite on defense they're constantly getting run-outs constantly getting transition buckets they make up for it in efficiency because they're so good on a transition and they're getting easy baskets etc but yeah the caruso thing i still continue to think that's a crime like that guy should have never left the lakers building well and it's one of those where you see this happen in the nba you see the nfl too the guy who was on a championship team the role player who ends up getting overpaid in free agency by the team who's trying to like oh we're gonna

bring this guy in he knows how to win it's usually a disaster it doesn't feel like a disaster in this case the patrick williams thing really sucks for them though because i you know but then they had guys yesterday i've never heard of who were making big shots i uh at chicago i think the over under was 42 and a half i think i went under the big mistake i made was the salts the salts are a lottery thing this is they are they're a lottery team this is a roster that doesn't make sense that doesn't like playing basketball with each other and they threw this new coach in who i have no idea if adoka's going to be good at some point in his life but he's learning how to be a head coach in real time as this season is starting to slip away a couple weeks in and we have jason tatum here you know still recruiting bradley beal it's like worry about your own [ __ ] team dude you're 23.

you've never made a finals you're you're not like lebron in 2013 recruiting people for the for the three-peat right you've you've barely done anything yet like worry about the guys you have you have a good team stop flirting with bradley beal my dad was so upset saturday night they lose double ot and it's like cut it right after tatum and beale have to have their own hug fest it's like get get [ __ ] over it go to the locker room deal with the loss this has been i hate this season was yeah kyle don't send this to the social team i don't want this social quip i'm angry i'm hurt don't explain me for social media views i'm upset look there's so much going on and i think the jimmy butler stuff is is instructive right in the sense that the hierarchy on that team is a weird one because marcus smart was always the teacher's pet with um stephens and the other two guys were the best players but marcus smart was also like

the i hate using this term but he was the alpha in the locker room where he was like the soul of the team he was like the spiritual leader of the team but he's by far not the best player and your two best guys kind of seem like they don't really care to be those kinds of dudes they don't really care to be getting in nobody's face or yelling in the locker room or throwing something down they want to come in do their job and leave and so because that leadership vacuum was filled by a guy who ideally is the fourth or fifth best player on a really good team i think you see the difficulty that's pushing it and right he's got his pr is like eight right now he's really like an offensive liability and he's like i need more shots right and and so it you have a situation in a game where sure they scored 11 points in the fourth quarter but they gave up 40.

in the game like i just feel like as somebody with any level of self-awareness to come out after a game where you give up 130 in regulation to say the problem is the shot distribution of your team also i went and watched the second half again they got mostly good shots and good drives they just missed the shots they didn't hustle back on d a couple times and they don't play well together and then as things break down they walk the ball up the court they dump it to tatum 25 feet from the basket everybody kind of stands around and then he tries to decide what to do the smart thing though i always watch the visiting announcers when i watch the celts if i if if i'm catching up sure and they're always like marcus smart it's the heart and soul of the celtics team it's like we haven't had a heart and a soul in 18 months maybe that's part of the problem we have no hard endo soul we roll over over and over again since that loss to

the heat in the bubble um it's been a disaster uh for these guys and you know again and i mentioned this with jason as well it's like all of the handwringing and ass kissing and the untouchability of brown and tatum which i'm not saying you trade these guys tomorrow but that's why i was always like kind of like just like i mean really these guys are untouchable i i think when you become a superstar right like you are when you become the hardens the lebrons the the best players in the league these ball dominate guys the only thing that marcus smart does have a point about you are elite at play making you are right lead make other people better make other people better it's not just that you hit the guy on the short roll it's that you hit the guy on the weak side corner with that one bullet pass one pass has the defenses shaded towards you open corner three right like when you're making those level of plays and those level of

reads that's what makes you a superstar and god bless brown i love brown i've actually been hashtag you know brown over tatum trolley on the internet for years now i love his game but neither him nor tatum have elevated their playmaking on the ball to the level that would you know demand that these guys get treated like these upper echelon superstar type of guys in the league and you know and i'm the honest truth is like marcus smart is saying the right thing but it can't be you that's saying it cuz like bro you're like the sixth best player on the team you're taking 30 footers seven of them each game like you gotta you gotta miss me marky smart also the reason they self-destructed in that game i'm gonna tell you right after the break all right come back just to put a bow in the celtics combo the part that frightened me the most with the marcus smart comments after the game the heart and soul of the team

was he didn't even have the right reason they lost the game the ball did move they josh richardson who i still don't know why they traded for him he he hasn't been good in two and a half years they trade for him they gave him a one-year extension he's out there for 25 minutes last night he was -21 and that only told half the story he missed over and over again wide open threes and then at some point when he's out there and smart's out there at the same time chicago is like cool we don't have to guard either of these guys we're good we're just going to pack in we're going to double tate them and we're going to make this really hard for you and thank god you're not putting vucevic in a pick-and-roll we're screwed because we did that twice in eight minutes um the the lack of like a real above average point guard i like schroeder but he's he's a six-man trick-or-treat guy smart as a six-man trick-or-treat

guy those guys are both out there in crunch time and then it's like oh no wonder we had 11 points in the fourth quarter because we have two trick-or-treat guards it it's the calibration of this team is off and the thing that drives me nuts is that niece smith's not playing because i actually think he has a chance to be good and they're playing richardson over him i know where i know where i stand on richardson so on top of it you have stevens who is a really good coach who i guess got burned out on this roster and vice versa but we had a good coach last year and a team that kind of underperformed for him and i get it and now we're starting over with a new coach who's trying to figure out who he is he stands for three hours like a football defensive coordinator on the sideline it's like well that every other successful coach i is way more calm than this dude it's game seven he called them

out for their intensity twice last week it's like it's october we just started the season we're having intensity issues so the fact they're two and five they've lost every close game except for the charlotte one that they should have lost but lamela's taking 30 footers and it's not great was we have like the seventh and eighth scorers in the league right now brown and tatum are averaging like 53 or 54 points combined something like that like you shouldn't be two and five if you have two offensive players like that to me that's the worst part of this basically offensively they're doing what the clippers thought they were getting with kawhi and george right it's like we'll get kauai and george they'll score 53 to 55 points a game and played great d in the other end the celtics kind of have that and they're still not good yeah they they defensively they were weird teams still they're 30th in points

points allowed 38 points allowed on d that is just something you was just unheard of especially when stevens first took over the team like that was kind of the identity of the team was that they were going to be elite on defense every single year that's just no longer the case like the fact that they're stinking to join up defensively that's what's got to be the most disheartening part about all of this because wow they've given up more points than okc who plays poku and josh giddy okc is better defensively i mean what are we talking about poku plays 20 minutes a game for okc they they're better defensively yeah and you know your wing rotation are guys with big defensive uh um reputations right like even jason tatum at this point has a good defensive reputation brown's considered an elite wing defender you know mark is smart people were talking for defensive play of the year type of stuff um

not if you're watching him every day best points of his career it's just it's wild to watch them just be this bad on defense right like that was the point of bringing big al back that was the point of big house been good i actually i he's been he's exceeded my expectations and he still has some legs which i was surprised by yeah and time lord like i don't know when i watch him like i feel like he has all the tools and the makings of a dominant defensive player like i've seen him swallow up you know possessions where he switched out onto a guard very late and he couldn't do anything with him i've seen him protect the rim it just doesn't work out um on a possession by possession basis like he has you know moments where you think he's bill russell damn there i was gonna say time lord is the classic you could make an awesome youtube clip of him right mm-hmm and you could make a youtube quip that

makes it look like he's darko milicic militia in 2005. you could make two where do we go from here bill i wouldn't like what would you like to see the tv i know so the best thing that can happen for them right now is the patriots keep winning because the afc is wide open for the pats right now it's just over and over again things are moving toward the pats being a sleeper and the red sox you know maybe signing a big free age something like that but the the longer that people in boston are just staring at this team the tatum brown stuff's gonna start bob ryan said it on my we when he came on my pod last week he brought it up and i was surprised but i was kind of like this sounds this is something my dad's been saying are we sure these guys belong on the same team are they redundant do they make each other better is there too much your turn my turn are they can you have two swing guys in this day

and age with the way we play basketball now that kind of don't really make anyone better but they're great players everyone would want them on their team do they make sense together and it's the first time the last week that i've been really thinking about do these guys play well together so that's what that's what i'm watching from now on they're two and five i think they could easily be five and two i'm not going to go crazy but i am watching that now in the back of my head i'm watching how they play together how they interact on the court and things that i just wasn't doing last year yeah i just tend to disagree with that i think the problem is that neither one of them is as good as the celtics need them to be for it to ultimately matter right like i think about like let's just say you replace tim hardaway jr with jaylen brown like it's obvious that that works with luka right because it's like

oh we have another one-on-one breakdown guy and luca does all of the play-making setting guys up in between all of that while also being somebody who breaks people down one-on-one right i think you had the guy who did the job that you need of soaking up possessions and finding people on a um consistent basis then it would work more well it's basically kyle lowry right like if they got an hour that summer yeah right it's just like the super elite guys wear all of these hats like lebron luca um kd uh you know hardin before his hammy he turned it but that's not brown or tatum they almost need like that third guy but part of the problem with this team is i think some people think smart is that guy and now he's telling me he's not like he's just not i listen to the announcers on the other team and they think he's they do the heart and soul thing all-star he's not a borderline also like he's great he's great in a playoff

series he's gonna go to another team at some point and he'll be awesome and he'll be a big part of some playoff run and people be like oh my god i can't believe how great this guy is that's gonna be his destiny with this i don't think he's long for the team i really don't yeah he has to play with a ball dominant guy who actually can find people right i think like like marcus smart would play perfectly next to lebron he'd be like a kind of souped-up version of ac right where it's like all right you're doing this stuff in very like spot duty most of the time when you're on the court you're with a guy who is masterful at table setting because he would scale it back because the guy's so great he's not gonna think all right now here's my turn i thought him him calling out those guys yesterday was crazy that was a crazy thing to do it really was like you're just starting a shitstorm he's smart enough to know

not to do that but he's been empowered to do it basically his whole tenure there and so yeah how do you get him to stop doing that in that building yeah um the hawks let's hit them quick i'm not by the way just to put a bow on the celts i'm not writing off the season i'm not panicking yet they still have two really good players who are both probably going to make the all-star team and the foundation is there i i would still rather have the talent that this team has over a lot of other teams i just don't understand why they're so hard to watch but i think two weeks from now we'll know more the hawks i'm gonna throw this theory at you is it a too many guys issue i said this i remember i had daryl morian once and he i talked about this where he got really mad at me there was this one houston rockets here and i was like i think you have too many guys he's he was like that's absurd how do you have too

many guys it's the dumbest thing i've ever heard it's like saying you have too much money like that's ridiculous i'm like hey so only 240 minutes in a basketball game for a roster to play and you have 10 guys who think they're 30 to 35 minute guys it's going to be a problem i wonder what the hawks do they have with the 240 minute rule do they have too many guys who think they should be playing 30 to 35 minutes the minutes thing is interesting the reason why i don't worry about it is because it feels like pretty defined roles in the sense that the second best player is john collins and he's not a ball dominant person right and i'm watching him last night against a pretty damn good wizards team and collins does everything that you need from him he plays so physically on both ends of the court right when they try to like because the pick-and-roll with him and trey young is so hard to defend

because he's such a vertical spacing guy he's and he's a pick and pop guy threat and so a lot of times teams are like all right our best option here is probably to switch our guard onto him and john collins is like i'm not having any of that like you put a guard on me i'm hustling this little guy up and i'm putting him under the basket i'm getting fouled then he's catching the ball on the short roll and his he's got this interior passing synergy with capella then i'm just like holy moly i think so you like the ceiling i love it because the only people who might have a gripe about their touches are hunter and cam reddish where it's just like excuse me like you can cry about it but we don't actually have to take you seriously quarter got paid already um bogey's already paid and you know all these things so radish and hunter are the issues who could potentially come through and say oh i feel a way about my role on the

team everybody else kind of understands what they need to do and offensively i just think they're so explosive like there was just a back to back to back possessions where trey hits a freaking 30-footer then bogey hits one then they get one in transition i'm like this is the type of explosion on offensive how you blow teams out what i'm worried about is because they're one of those teams that are so talented offensively i wonder if they have the mindset to put it together every night on defense last night they had stretches against the wizards where i was just like oh this is looking amazing right like colin's on health side colin's on switches capella protecting the rim um just just huge wings in hunter and um and reddish like in the passing lanes and i was like oh this is making me dizzy i'm just loving this right but i wonder if they're gonna be able to have the mentality defensively because you know i

think they're gonna score against anybody in a playoff series but defensively if they're not taking it serious enough that's where they're gonna you know lose games that game against philly the other night where philly just blows them out they just straight up didn't compete on defense straight up and down right like and a lot of times that happens to teams that think that they're offensively unstoppable so that's what i'm worried about with the hawks but as you can probably tell bill i'm really excited about this team yeah well look the east is milwaukee in my opinion is the safe bet they're the top team they're the easiest pick i have real concerns about brooklyn um i don't like the way harden looks at all i can't believe he's playing himself in the shape he's like well i just had the hammy injury it's like was it just like wasn't that in like may well like if you go go look at houston

pictures of him from five years ago like he's he looks like he has a body suit on you're a [ __ ] professional athlete you make 35 million a year get in shape he's like i'm playing myself in shape i feel better it's like we're that's what we have we call it the preseason james so you have that kyrie's out we don't know not seen him all year blake griffin looks washed yeah like it looks like it might be done yeah um milsap's been washed for two three years nice guy but denver couldn't put him out there when it actually mattered and i don't know i just think that team durant's surrendering 58 by the way um looks as good as he's ever looked and they're gonna be fine because hardin will eventually get in shape but um i think the east has gotten better and i don't think they're as scary as they were last year especially without kyrie yeah you know what's so funny why i got a little bit worried it was from a

hardened quote and from him saying like yeah i would love to go out there and score 40 but you know and he's making excuses where's like james harden has never been somebody who acknowledges a deficiency in public that's never been something that he's done so for him to say that i'm like man maybe he's thinking in his head like i don't have it in me to be breaking like the tony soprano with tony separato got beaten up by bobby boxer right yeah well you know i had the heart thing right i'm older exactly exactly um like you know bobby let's face it like 10 years ago you would have shot like type of things but like like to hear hard and admit that it makes me wonder like man is he gonna be able to beat guys one on one because i think that's what drove the entire office dude he can't he he's he doesn't have the said now will it come back i don't know but i watched that whole game on friday and i was like

stunned because he actually he put up decent stats but the combo of taking the rule away that he lived on i i don't think he blows by people the same way especially when you're watching some of the other guys in the league like lamella who just seem like they can go by anyone they want at any given time which is what hardin used to be able to do i haven't seen it the same way this year and he's older you know his 2008 draft yeah if he's not i can't remember if he's not getting a step on guys and therefore making the defense react and you know basically punching the defense and creating these creases and passing lanes for you know him being one of the greatest passes we've ever seen then he's just he doesn't have the same effect right like the the the concept of james harden is that like all right i can attack anybody you send to me one-on-one whether that be by getting them in foul trouble or creating the

space for a great shot or just getting you know to the rack for a great um uh layup or whatever the case may be and then through that like i'm making the defense react to all of my movements from my first step etc etc and i had that next level court vision that we said you know tatum and brown don't possess um again that's predicated on beating the man in front of you right like i and i think we're going to talk about the lakers i watched that memphis game and i was just like jesus they're getting murdered at the point of attack like the john murray just any any time he wanted to get to a place it didn't matter who was in front of him he was getting there um he was getting they were killing the lakers at the point of attack like if harding can't beat defenders at the point of attack this brooklyn thing becomes way less overwhelming really quickly and we'll see with kyrie who knows who knows but they're just

it just doesn't seem the same and i i thinking a lot about durant like what a big bet he made with this brooklyn situation he loses year one because he's hurt year two foot on the line bad injuries now we're in year three and i you would have thought at some point this would have at least felt a tiny bit like the 2017 warriors but the irony with this team is the only time it really felt that way was that one boston series right before everybody got hurt remember yeah when it was like oh my god this team can score 20 points in four minutes any time at once watching yeah it was gone and it's never come back and then kyrie got hurt because he gets here every single year and yeah you know hardin was dealing with the hammy and now we're back into this and again like what he said makes sense right it's like it's one of those injuries that rest is basically the answer i had an entire offseason of rest

not that he wouldn't have been resting or leisurely going to fashion week in paris or whatever without that but you know he has an excuse that makes sense we'll see if he regains his explosion or not but it was it was telling to hear him say i want to go out and score 40. like that's not hardens public posture ever he's always supremely confident in his rhetoric anyway uh to hear him just say like yeah you know i didn't have an off-season i don't know it's that hate that's tough hey james you've played in five finals games in your career and you lost four of them and you got your ass kicked by lebron in 2012.

maybe get in shape um before we go lakers lakers just quick that i was never a total believer in the team i went under for them i felt like the west was open i wasn't sure who was gonna it was gonna be i'm still not um but that i that's a team that feels like there's more moves coming so i don't want to pour dirt on oh it's not gonna happen i don't think there's any way this is the team they're gonna have three months from now to stay i've said it before i'm gonna say it again this feels very 2018 cavaliers-ish to me for the team they started with in october november versus the team they have in march i think will look different what do you think on that yeah it's man it's kind of startling to watch them for the first time in the vogel era just not be good at all on defense like last year was quick with no pass it's not right like oh this oh malik monk will get better he's like 120 pounds it's like a reason is not going

to be save you no like you know kendrick nuns not going to save you with their perimeter defense um so watch it just straight up not work whereas last year a.d went down and i think in the hispanic games that a.d didn't play they were the number one defense in the um nba um in defensive efficiency to watch it this year where it's just like again at the point of attack perimeter defense it's a problem right yeah it's it's a problem and you know basemore is whatever he is what he is and monk is what he is but these guys that's not the answer as a perimeter defender and westbrook like he just hasn't shown uh want to to be any good whatsoever at being a resistance for five years right exactly it's been so long since he's shown any signs of that it's crazy but you know again at the same time i watched the cavs who are like have shown themselves the bria pretty competent plucky team and you know

lebron big boyed them in that game yeah it was impressive yeah he's like oh moby i'm hearing good things about it i'm to embarrass you in the fourth quarter like at the end of the game when lebron's like all right let's put these guys away no dj no dwight in it's a d at center lebron's like let's just run pick a roll let's just keep doing that this is one of the most impossible place to defend in the nba and you know what how can i be like worried about this team when they have these two dudes i felt the same way you know what was great about that mobley who was so gifted i mean i did a thing on thursday about comparing him to kg and his instincts defensively and then lebron's big boy in them with with a.d and they're running that pick-and-roll and moby's doing the right things he's just never seen the speed and strength that that play has been run with so he's jumping off at the right times he's doing all the things that

have probably worked for his entire basketball life and it's like no no that that's anthony davis he's gonna be two feet ahead of where you thought and that's lebron james if he gets a half inch on you now he's gonna put his shoulder and you're done yeah and it was it was a really interesting learning experience i would encourage people to go back and watch it on if you have the nba app they're just they kind of put him in the torture chamber and he wasn't necessarily doing the wrong things it was just like wow okay this is the process to guard right like it's like a.d like the way you have to defend it as the guy who's defending a.d as a screener if you know that he has the ability to pop or roll that makes your sort of positioning a little bit weirder and then it's like well also the guy with the ball in his hands is lebron freaking james so it's like all of these options you have to keep in your head yeah at

the same time and then of course the help side defense is like all right do i suck in to help and it's like well yeah you could do that but the greatest passer of all time is gonna find an open three-point shooter wait larry bird was the neck wait you could just play it here we go here we go uh give me your give me your deepest darkest zion thoughts right now listen if i'm new orleans all of this cow town panicking all this stuff that i was doing before i gotta stop i need to stop this team is nowhere close to contention bringing zion back is not gonna change their fortunes that much this dude is constantly hurt he's constantly out of shape relax we're the only people that could offer you 200 mil off the bat god only knows when your next injury is going to happen that could be as fatal and scary as possible and that's not wishing anything on them but it's like take a deep breath yeah please yeah

don't rush cheyenne back you're gonna you're gonna be in the lottery and you'll probably be one of those six words and stop making moves because it might help zion win get guys that makes sense next to him if not help the team win uh just take a deep breath new orleans that's that's all i would say to them because like oh it's bad over there the foot thing was ludicrous we find out about the foot what three weeks before the season they're like it's a jones fracture but it's fine he'll be ready opening day it's like what i i follow sports a jones fracture is not fine derek henry just got one they weren't like he'll be good in three weeks they're like he might be back for the playoffs we don't know right and lapel because they're like no it'll be fine should be around opening day it's like all right so he can't exercise with a broken foot the foot's gonna take a while it's just it's a [ __ ] show it's a bummer

um people need to settle down on the zion versus jaw oh you'd be people everyone was taking zion first in that drive come on that was it was not an argument let's not recreate history nobody was ever thinking anything otherwise it's a bummer though i like having healthy good basketball players and we're missing some this year you know on the other hand there's been some fun fun additions the rookie class is good i like that anthony edwards is out of last night wasn't great but i like that anthony edwards has blossomed a little bit in year two lamella same thing so of course there's some good ones yeah charlotte has been a surprise for me in the sense that i was like man it's still kind of a young team and like you're going to be relying upon the lamello a lot like how good can they really truly be but they've been way feistier than i expected them to be to start the season and lamelo looks amazing and you know the best

thing is like his jump shot is real like yeah i like it the versatility that he shoots it with was like i could come off screens i could do it off the dribble i could spot up i'm like damn like having that weapon with his play making and he's like showing flashes of finishing at the cup which you know a guy who's as huge as he is you would hope that he would become really good at it that's fun that's awesome well we'll see because hayward has to play an entire season right let's let's see that happen tell you this i'm going to leave you with this miles bridges a little sean marianish little good good sean marion or bad like okay he's kind of moving to that territory for me where he's just this crazy athlete who's kind of figured out how to impact both ends yeah and is really weirdly consistent that that was the piece he was like to me a feast or famine guy and then second half of last year started to put some

steps together and now seems like a guy who might make an all-star team at some point i did not expect this well it's rare that we and sean marion is pretty instructive of this in that is where we get the combination these three combinations of motor like crazy high motor um crazy athleticism with iq yeah right like you combine those three it's rare that we see that combination of guys who just never stop playing hard are on you know in the top two percent of nba athletes and nowhere to be understand how to read offenses and defenses you know it's it's cool like watch him drop like 25 over and over again i'm like whoa like i like how hard he plays had that in him it's cool to watch i'm happy for charlotte because for a while it's just been you know a bunch of cody zellers and yeah you know guys that were cool that they drafted that just didn't didn't ultimately end up mattering but to get

you know lamello and bridges and to watch it all come together the way it is it's pretty cool well they also caught a massive break wiseman over lamela oh man and i was in the wasman camp i that's a i'll take the huge l on that one because the mellow man tough one that's the draft the draft breaks your heart or it makes your decade you just never know all right waz you're going to be on ringer nba show this week right yes sir of course you can find me a group chat on the rigger mba show uh that's on all of our podcasts feeds and networks and then of course check out the youtube show yeah for fits every single friday last week we had ronnie cycling on this week we're talking to donovan mitchell we talked to kelly ubrey the other day yeah check us out on four core fits i'm not invited on full court fits because i've been wearing jogging pants for like a year and a half we'll figure out we'll figure out a way

to incorporate your expertise somehow my jockey pits expertise all right wow it's great to see you all right lady y'all all right jake paul is here i have a lot of questions for you but the amazing thing to me i'm gonna start here you and your brother you've kind of figured out this boxing thing you've figured out how to juice a sport that you know when i was growing up in the 70s and 80s there were big fights all the time they were on all these different networks they really mattered and now it's kind of faded away it's harder and harder to have events did you stumble into this or is this something as you went along you were like holy [ __ ] we're actually doing this yeah no i mean it's just marketing at the end of the day and you have to make people care or form an opinion or hate you or want to see you lose and that's what you know i've sort of mastered and we're entertainers at the end of the day

that's why i moved to los angeles was to become an entertainer 17 year old jake big guys i was like i want to act i want to do youtube i want to blah blah boom one thing led to another of course it goes to fighting you know if you're walking down the street you see two people fighting everyone stops pulls out their phones and watches it it's one of the only things in the world that will draw everyone's attention right away and so that's why i love it and we just found a way to make people care and we're good at it you know i'm 4-0 undefeated um and i've only been doing this now as a professional for less than two years and have had some of the biggest fights uh this year alone so it's just picking up steam and i'm training my ass off every single day twice a day and i love it was this one of those things you always thought you would be good at it or you were training because you want to do it

once and you were like wow i'm actually good at this maybe i should pursue this yeah so i i grew up and i was wrestling all the time and playing football i did all sorts of sports it was always athletic and you know as a teenager you would get into fights in school or whatever you know you do that game where you punch your friends in the bicep and you see like who can last the longest and i always last the longest people like why you hit hard you hit hard yeah um but it wasn't until i was i think 21 when these youtubers uh called out my brother and i had a fight and we signed the contract and literally the next day is my first day of boxing you act like we didn't get that fight in the simmons house because i have my son who now just turned 14.

he was on it from the get-go he was he was following all this stuff all the feuds and what was amazing to me is him and his friends they all knew what was going on and i was like what is am i entering an alternate universe like they've figured out a way to get 10 to 12 year olds to really care about fights which is impossible yep and that's and that's the beauty of it and that's what i wanted to do now the evolution of this was like it started off as a one fight and then boom we realized we just broke the record for the most amount of pay-per-view buys in an amateur event ever and it was massive we were getting more views on the press conference than floyd mayweather and mcgregor's press conferences so we were like okay there's clearly something here and we love it and we just ran ran with the win uh you know i i tko'd my opponent and it was one of the greatest feelings i've ever had in my life i just proved people

wrong because there's always been a ton of hate against me people you know pinning me down i've had a target on my back i've always sort of been like the villain role and so boxing you know fits perfectly with that and there's enough no one can stop you but yourself and i i love that aspect of it is as hard as i work i'm gonna get that same exact amount out of the sport yeah you and your bro coming up you're basically you're 16 17 as all this new technology is swinging your way right you the instagram is already in place twitter's in place tick tock's coming facebook is probably peaked by 2016-17 but you have all these devices the phones are moving your direction youtube obviously is massive and it feels like your generation was the first generation that just took advantage of all these things and at the same time you're you're you're making mistakes in real time this is the cancel culture stuff's

really starting to kick in like 2017-18 range people are just getting mad constantly and at some point it either seems like it breaks you or you kind of figure out all right where do i fit in in this whole thing and one of the things that i thought was interesting about both you and your brother is you both had these moments you worked through them and you kind of figured out like all right i'm just kind of gonna kind of own this this is a roller coaster ride people might hate me one day they might like me the next day but i'm on the roller coaster i'm not getting off is that is that a fair way to put it yeah 100 and the audience is very fickle you know yeah one minute they love you one minute they hate you and so you can't get too attached to the highs or lows you just gotta know who you are at the end of the day and that's that's what was hard you know it was rough at first going through these

canceled moments and being hated on and you know i had no one to look to or talk to about this because it was the first time that kids this young were you know exposed on the internet for everything they've done and um or not done you know people make [ __ ] up all the time so it's like this fake stuff's happening this what's going on and it's this crazy life in la is full of sharks and it was a lot it took it took a big toll on like my mental i developed like anxiety and like was just scared all the time and living in fear and it was a hard thing to go through but it made me super super strong and i had to over the years figure out who i was and truly love myself to the point where it doesn't matter what the twitter people say because youtube comments all that stuff yeah but you can see you can see how it broke some people right because i think it broke a lot of people over the last six seven years

i mean tons dozens and you see you hear some really bad stories some really sad stories it's not easy man like i people always ask me you know what what do i have to do to be the next jake paul or i want to be like you i'm like no you don't you you don't like the pressure that i put myself through and the things that i've endured i'm a strong person i was raised by my dad who was in the army strict we like worked for everything we had i'm super strong thick skin and there was even points where i was like yo i'm good like i'm gonna go live in the woods and get rid of all of this and and run away from it because that's where where it pushes you at some points and i feel like a lot of kids on tick tock or the new the new youtubers people who are becoming famous who have to go through some of that negativity or have some big controversy you know they they're traumatized for the rest of their lives from

right yeah i just even watching my kids relationship with the people they like on tick tock on youtube they'll come and go in six months it'll be somebody else like i remember my son when he was like i don't know fourth grade maybe third grade fourth grade he had your brother was selling all the merchandise and he had like the what was the logan gang or something he had like the low gang yeah the low game he had the little backpack and then all of a sudden he was like yeah he's out i'd like somebody else now and it was like watching people break up with you know girlfriends when they're in high school or something they would just move on from person to person that they liked and i can imagine like when you're in the middle of that as an influencer and you're the hot thing for a second and then it's somebody else and it's like wait a second i'm still here i have all these followers but you feel like

you're losing juice you guys have always been able to kind of maintain the juice which i think is pretty unique yeah it's hard man we've always reinvented ourselves and we're willing to adapt and change and now we've gotten to a point where after however many years of doing this six if it's seven years now we're solidified you know solidified uh whatever you want to call it we're certified in the in the social media fame celebrity world but it took a while to get there and there were moments where we like fell off or people didn't care as much as they did anymore or they hated us for a second but but to me like i liked that challenge that that was like motivating for me to like be all the way at the top no one messing with me i was getting 400 something million views a month on youtube for like a year straight and i was it was me and my brother just running youtube and then you see all these other

people come in and yeah we had to change adapt and overcome and a lot of those people who sort of took over very few of them are around today yeah after you have to keep on changing in this landscape and in this environment and you know youtube used to be the number one thing now the most reviewed app is tick tock everyone's on tick tock so you know i've sort of grown off of social media i made a decision two years ago when i started full-time professional boxing i was like i'm done with youtube i'm done with doing social media i'm gonna focus on this and do this full time because i love it and there's no uh dead end in boxing if i want to make 10 billion dollars in boxing i can if i want to do that as a youtuber or a tick tocker no one's done it no one's gotten even close to making you know 500 million uh so for me i saw that and i saw that you had to keep on posting and it was a vicious and never-ending

cycle and the minute you stopped posting you you no one cares anymore and there's there's a thousand a thousand other people right there behind you to keep on posting content and so i made the decision i'm done with this i'm full-time boxing and best decision i ever made and i've always had my finger on the pulse of like what moves to make at the at the right time in my career and it's paid off for sure well the good news though is you have like a war chest of followers on all these different platforms that you can tap into whenever you need them right yeah yeah look i mean i still mess around with some content and yeah obviously my content is now sort of based around the fight game yeah but there there was a period for six months where i wasn't posting basically anything and i was like yo i need to learn how to become a professional fighter i was training non-stop even when i didn't have a fight plans uh

and that's really what no one saw because i knew that this skill of boxing will be something that can last me forever you know people people still want to see mike tyson fight till this day you know people including me i'm ready for it exactly so you know that's what i wanted to build and i wanted to build equity in something other than content and by the way it wasn't ever really who i was you know i feel so at home with this fight game i feel like i can finally be myself i think a lot of times on social media i was playing a character i was doing cringe things to get more views like you said it's like a yeah wake up every day and make the most viral video and so i was doing things that weren't authentic to who i was and now i feel like i can fully be myself and i'm happy and i love what i'm doing i would wake up some days and be like man i have to film a video today like this is going to be

so annoying to try and piece this all together and make something entertaining uh so and the fans can the fans can sense that when people are going through the motions with that stuff because i've heard my daughter mention that with certain people that she likes where she's like i don't think they like doing it anymore i think they're doing it just because it's kind of their job but i can tell they don't care as much as they did yep a hundred percent like they're on autopilot yep and and authenticity is the key right now to you know our generation and their generations but people just everything it's the key to everything right now people want authentic the authentic version of you or whoever you are they don't people can sniff out the the [ __ ] now and no one wants it right and people talking about issues they've had problems they've had stuff like that that's actually we in 2021 it's accepted and encouraged

to talk about yeah this that what would you what would you tell 17 year old jake if knowing now you're seven years later what advice would you give 17 year old jake knowing what's coming i would say take longer to trust people and surround yourself with a lot smarter people than you and slow down i think i made so many of the mistakes that i made because i was just trying to do everything and conquer the whole world literally in one year uh which i mean it was good and bad i was very ambitious but i think when you're young and you don't have you have any idea what you're doing because i really didn't you know i came from a family where we lived in a bubble and my dad was a roofer my mom was a nurse they didn't know anything about business or hollywood or anything so i was super ambitious which was great but i think that could also shoot you in the foot when you're super ambitious uh but then you have no idea what you're

doing so you're going to make a lot of mistakes i think you can learn from those mistakes of course but just slow down and there's time everyone everyone should take their time and surround themselves with smart people yeah because you get once you once you hit that first stage you have that first wave of people coming in like hey man let me do this let me do that let me be your manager let me whatever and usually it takes a while to realize oh i should just get the best people yeah maybe maybe i should have the best lawyer maybe i should have the best business person yep it's hard cause you you wanna you know put your friends on or your friend could be your manager or you wanna start this business with your friend who also has no idea what they're doing because that's gonna be more fun like no like cut the friend [ __ ] out there there's very few friends in in this world actually and take take longer to trust

people and uh everyone's everyone's gonna wanna hunt you down and have some opportunity for you or yeah some stupid appearance or some stupid little job or gig or idea just trust your gut and your heart on people and what you're doing just in general what's your biggest regret as a business decision was there ever like a jake paul liquor or a jake paul uh bar in cleveland what was your biggest business mistake man jake jake paul body cream i think um i think t just team 10 i don't know if you know about team 10 but yeah i know it but tell the listeners because some people probably don't know yeah so basically i was gonna be like the dr dre of the social media space so right i came in i was famous on social media whatever i had a bunch of followers and my idea was i'm gonna sign a bunch of people underneath me and put them on get them brand deals grow their following create content with them

and everything's gonna be great we're all gonna live in a house it's gonna be like sort of like a reality show and we're all gonna be like best friends and boom it's all gonna blow up which it did but when you hand you know 18 19 20 year olds millions of dollars and millions of followers and you put them in a house in los angeles where there's greedy people all over the world and you know people in the house start hooking up and causing trouble and doing stupid [ __ ] it was just like a total nightmare uh right because you're also you're the you're the most famous person and if anybody else either does anything wrong or they end up they they screw up with they're not showing up on time doing whatever it's on it's on you ultimately you're the one you're the only one that's going to get blamed for any sort of failure creatively yeah so i was i was like the dad basically yeah and which didn't work

because i was like they're friends but you were like 22 right yeah so yeah it just didn't work because i like created rules and was like no drinking no smoking no everyone has to be up early we have to create this much content every day i was running it like a business yeah and it was and it worked you know we all blew up but there was just so much like resentment and hate and then people on the team would start fighting and then employees would start fighting and it was just so much ego and it was just like serious and yet and yet the idea got ripped off by multiple other people yeah right yep so that inspired uh this the whole like wave that we saw this past year on tick tock where there was like a bunch of creator houses yeah like one of my employees my former employees at team 10 years later came and started the the biggest tick-tock house but same same exact thing like i did everything to try and make it work like

i had counselors come to the house to talk to people like i i did every i had professional business people i i did fun activities that broke i did everything to try and make this company work and it just didn't so that's what you saw with the tick tock houses as well they all fell apart yeah in even a shorter amount of time well i know they pissed off a lot of people in la too because whoever the neighbors were for whatever those houses were furious yeah they drew they drew the short straw with the whole thing namely one thing you're better than your brother at and one thing that he's better than you at with all this stuff i mean just off top boxing and business are sort of my forte you know he hasn't like won a boxing match yet um he's a great boxer just i've put in way more time and then yeah i'm just in the trenches in venture capital uh and i've always been an entrepreneur but he is way better at like creative

and you know photos and videos and just creating in general he's more of like an artist yeah i'm actually like i'm wowed by him sometimes with his artistic abilities so we're sort of ying and yang and a weird yeah what uh what's the biggest fight you ever had with him was there ever a time when you guys didn't talk for like a month for sure for sure it was over a girl uh oh no and we were we were pissing yeah we were pissed at each other for like a couple months but yeah that that was definitely a period where we where we didn't talk how old were you again same thing we were young yeah like 20 and he was 22 like brothers being brothers with egos in los angeles we were young and we we learned from that and realized like our our bond and friendship and brotherhood is way more important than any of this outside stuff you know at the end of the day we've gotten so far but you know being brothers is way more

important and what makes us more happy i thought that was the code of the brothers that no girl could get between two brothers i can't i can't believe nobody obviously nobody told you guys it's pretty if no one told us no one told us otherwise we everything would have been fine but uh i guess i guess we learned on our on our own and now we can tell our kids i mean that's basically the plot of scarface even though they weren't actually brothers but they were tony and manny and then the sister and then all of a sudden you know that's that's how it goes um what are so you're in la for good because you're a cleveland guy no so i am i moved to puerto rico uh earlier this year oh i knew that yeah yeah yeah yeah so just like made the decision to leave california and specifically los angeles just because i wanted to become the best possible boxer that i could be and california just what wasn't los angeles

wasn't the spot there was too many friends too many distractions my next-door neighbors like we're throwing a party every night and they were our friends it just wasn't the right environment to be around and assault for isolation and that's why i found myself here in puerto rico and fell in love with it because i can fully train non-stop and focus on myself and become the best boxer here on on this island you know where i'm totally locked in day in and day out so what's your what's your plan with boxing because the criticism to this is like well when is he going to fight somebody well what happens if he fights you know it's like these mma guys and stuff but what happens if he actually fought a real box or he'd get killed what is your timeline for do you even want to go down that road or is it just so lucrative the way it's going now because people want to see you you're always there's always some other

name and this could go on for the next few years and you're gonna make a ton of money what how far does this go no yeah look i've always stepped into the unknown with my opponents i've always challenged myself more and more each fight and that's what i'm continuing to do now and yeah the the criticism was you know fight someone harder to fight someone harder so i fought tyron woodley five-time ufc champ cool i beat him now by the way you got tagged in that fight once and you took it i was impressed like he did get you one time and you kept coming look it's boxing right and i've been hit way harder and sparring and it looked a lot worse than it was just because like it knocked me off balanced and then i like fell into the ropes but i i was fine you know i i take shots i have a good chin and that's that's tyron's hardest punch you know that's what he's famous for it is that overhand right that knocked out that's why he

became ufc champion so look it took it no problem didn't even get knocked down and we keep fighting i i win the rest of the rounds but you know here's the thing here's the thing with woodley in that fight i've seen all your fights by the way um i think there's a fear of getting knocked out by you with some of these guys where there's a level of caution that he had that i could see where he's just you know if if he was really trying to win that fight i at some point he's got to trade bombs with you for like a minute but i didn't i think he honestly didn't want to have what happened to nate robinson where you become a meme for the next week so i felt like there was he was a little bit had the safety valve on and that was why you controlled the fight because you didn't you were going at him the whole time and i i didn't feel like he totally wanted to trade with you no for sure and you know that's partially what we

implement into our game plan people get gun shy from me because they feel my power instantly you know and i can sit here and brag about myself but the proof is in the pudding my jab is like a right hand and so as soon as i hit tyron with that he immediately was like oh [ __ ] i see it in their eyes it's one of my favorite things when i'm going to fight someone these tough guys you know as soon as i hit them they're like well i've never been hit like that and that's my that's part of my secret sauce is i really truly have this talent of of power uh and speed and timing and it's got it's god-given you can't really train it you either have it or you don't and so boom as soon as i hit him in that early round boom right hand to the body he's feeling that to his body and he's like yo i don't want to get hit in the head with that punch so yeah he immediately you know is his gun shy and doesn't doesn't want

to trade back and forth yeah but then he wanted a rematch it was like dude you you just had eight rounds we we've already seen this fight and you never really totally wanted to trade punches with this guy so i'm not i don't want to pay for that again yep and he just wants the payday exactly but i win the fight you know my my first uh my first time going past two rounds great learning experience against a a tough guy who came ready to fight who was in shape and the criticism was okay fight a real boxer and that's what it sort of always has been so boom perfect tommy fury 7-0 undefeated fighter same weight same height same reach you know comes from a legendary bloodline his brother's tyson fury the heavyweight champion of the worlds if that's not a real enough boxer then i don't i don't know what is and so i've always stepped up to the occasion and people have all of these things to say you know and criticisms and they want me

to do this this and that guys it's only been 18 months since i fought my first professional fight and so just take it everyone take a deep breath like i'm gonna i'm gonna get harder and harder and harder opponents but most fighters in my position are fighting four-round fights tommy fury is a perfect example he's 7-0 but he's never fought more than a four-round fight these fighters fight trash cans tomato cans to build and pad their record so it looks good on tv when they say they're undefeated and they got all these knockouts that is not what i'm doing everyone's watched my fights since my first one which is unheard of named floyd mayweather's first fight name jerondae davis's first fight named mike tyson's first fight you can't do it so people have been following my career and that's why there's so much criticism early on and normally i would take my time all the way up to 15 fights and then fight someone good

but i chose to fight a five-time champion in my fourth fight and now i'm choosing to fight undefeated young prospect you know who's who's supposed to beat the shot on me on paper he's got an amateur career he's been doing this his whole life yeah his brother's champion his whole family has a lineage of fighting so i'm i'm stepping up to the occasion i know i'm going to win that's the funny thing about it i think sugar ray leonard was the last guy who people saw every one of his fights because he came out of the olympics in 76 and immediately was on cbs and everybody loved them from the olympics that was the last time i it's a good point like even mike tyson still had to go like 10-0 11-0 before he went on people's radar um i'm throwing an idea at you you've probably thought of it why isn't there a celebrity a celebrity like a real celebrity championship belt that basically like because you kind of have

the unofficial version of it now right why doesn't it actually just exist and everybody who's not an actual license now you have probably higher hopes than that it sounds like you want to actually eventually at some point be a real professional boxer like the whole thing like you're going down that road but why couldn't there be a celebrity champ where it's just like all right these famous people that got into the sport and that person is the champ and that's that's who you have to go through he comes in with a belt he's got the celebrity belt like i would actually i that would actually make sense to me we'd have rankings i'd want to know where lamar wrote him and see like is he in the top 10 yet is he still 19th what but could that ever happen because it does feel like it's not unrealistic yeah i mean the the issue is a lot of things it's like these celebrities sort of want to dabble they see the

limelight and the money that it makes yeah and so they want to do like one fight but once they get into the training and they realize how hard it is you know that's sort of where it gets then they're good yeah exactly and you know there's a risk in losing right like if they lose they're gonna look stupid and they have to go back to whatever career that they did before and everyone's gonna make fun of them so a lot of them aren't willing to risk that and then the biggest problem is these celebrities demand so much money because of their ego and they think they're worth so much money so they'll demand two three four five million dollars but then they only sell like fifty 000 pay-per-views yeah which you know it doesn't it doesn't add up you know there's a whole lawsuit from these celebrities these little tick-tockers who fought uh and i'm following that one i love that one that was that was the most

obvious lawsuit that was ever going to happen you could tell it was a disaster we tried to download that app and it didn't even work we had to watch it on a computer it wouldn't work on a tv whatever thing that was it was an immediate disaster yes so i mean and i told the guy before he thought he was going to sell two million pay-per-view buys and i was like you'll be lucky to sell 200 000. they ended up selling like a hundred thousand or something like that and they promised all of these celebrities money none of them got paid it's like this whole disaster so everyone has the bad taste in their mouth from that and it that's the thing is people don't realize how hard it is to actually sell pay-per-views just because you have followers doesn't mean that they're gonna watch you fight right what i've done over the past two years is create a strategy to change my audience and i've changed it from the digital you

know youtube audience to an actual sports fan base where they care about me as an athlete and are willing to put money down you know the 30 the 30 year old male has 60 70 to pay for a pay-per-view you know these 16 year old girls or 13 year old girls who follow bryce hall on tick tock they're not going to pay to watch his pay-per-view and they probably don't even have the money to pay or they're technically savvy enough to where they're going to pirate the stream and they didn't do a good job of you know handling the piracy so all these kid geniuses now who can look up a million things in a minute just watch illegally on youtube or wherever wherever it's streaming for free yeah or they have in my case my son just telling me to order it but that i don't think there was a lot of me because i actually stupidly ordered that one but i don't think there was i don't think that was a giant audience of

people people paying for it um it seemed like a lot of people cut corners and then it didn't work on top of it um so you have this fight on december 18th the other smart thing you did you hooked up with showtime so you have the credibility you know the technology is gonna work all that stuff what what does 2022 look for you if look like for you if you win this fight on the 18th man i think genuinely i think i'm gonna take some time off you know i said i was gonna take some time off after the woodley fight but then i just felt good and wanted to keep going but i've just been going non-stop you know i haven't been on vacation since i moved really to los angeles so it's been like seven years and i feel like i finally had a spot where i deserve that and just like spend some time chilling to be honest and then who knows i might fight at the end of the year uh you know if there's if there's an

opponent um but i'm really behind on my business stuff just because when you're in training camp it's hard to manage it all so i'm gonna get back into the emails and the meetings and uh the long-term business building probably in 2022 and just take some time off and kick it that sounds like the answer from somebody who sold a lot of pay-per-views with the last couple fights you've already moved into that floyd mayweather 40 fights at his career stage we've had once you start this is the problem with a lot of these guys once they start making real money from the pay-per-views all of a sudden they're fighting once twice a year because that's what they have to but we have a couple things before you go one uh browns are you following or no do you have the the directv in puerto rico or you're out this season yeah no i uh i'm following i'm following as as much as i can it's you have to have like a vpn

to watch it here in puerto rico oh jesus yeah the browns are in trouble mayfield's got a ravaged left shoulder um it it just it looks like they're in trouble beckham was trying to get traded this week they didn't end up trading them and that but the good news the cavs mobley looks like a home run so the cavs might have another comeback in him because they got evan moby with the second pick everybody loves him so maybe that's gonna be the team yeah i mean i'm i'm rooting for the browns and the cavs obviously but i'm more i'm more of a football fan and it's it's been tough to watch everyone just get injured like you said and yeah just man everyone like dropping passes there's drop passes all the time on these third downs yeah it just something's weird is going on in the league i feel like there's like a shift happening with the talent like even the even the chiefs are having such a rough time so

you know it's a weird year like there's no favorite in the afc um yeah and the nfc one of the best teams has a 44 year old quarterback i don't know what to make of to say i've i forgot to ask you about lebron any do you guys have a relationship with him you and your brother or like is the cleveland thing just is there a cleveland celebrity circuit where you guys all have to like be on the same text chain or did you not deal with them so they're they're like sort of is um it's a little bit it's a little bit weird like some some people are cooler than others and i think uh it's not that big of a family but lebron i think tweeted about my event when it happened uh but he you know never never spoke to him really um interesting so a little standoffish lebron with the paul brothers i mean yeah but like i mean it is what it is like i don't i don't take any offense to it like the guy is busy you

know what i'm saying i don't expect anything from anybody so if he never wants to talk to me then that's cool you know if i if i see a kid coming up from cleveland doing big things and like i was at lebron's game front row like cheering you know and if some kid was saying i was at jake paul's boxing match growing up i would probably reach out and you know say something but people are different and i don't yeah i don't expect anything and i know he's busy and he probably probably you know it is what it is all right i thought there was a whole cleveland cleveland sports sports hierarchy i thought you guys were all tight uh tell me about your foundation bullies yeah one one of my uh one of my prized things that i that i've been wanting to do since i was a kid um was to create a foundation and finally was able to launch it this year and really our mission is to get boxing gloves and boxing out there

to as many kids as possible to give them an alternative way to get rid of all their like extra energy so that it doesn't go into bullying and so they can build themselves and become confident because that's what boxing did for me is i found out who i was and what i was made of in boxing to the point where i didn't necessarily feel the need ever to ridicule other people or to be macho man in public you don't want that and so we're just raising a voice against bullying because i used to bully when i was a kid and it was because i wasn't confident and i thought it was i thought it was funny blah blah blah and so when i got when i started to grow on social media people in my school started to like bully me and create fake accounts with like nasty names about me and that hurt me so i was like wow you know this this isn't cool and cyber bullying is such a big part of this generation where someone can make a fake

twitter and just go write something nasty and those comments stick with you those things hurt um and so i haven't really seen anyone talk about this and how big of a problem it is and i i just want to use my voice my platform and everything i'm doing to to raise awareness about it cool what's the url yeah boxing bullies dot com b-u-l-l-i-e-s all right cool all right good luck next month good luck with the fight thank you bill i really appreciate it man thank you for having me all right nice meeting you peace all right this podcast was produced by kyle creighton thanks to big wise thanks to jake paul i will see you on thursday with million dollar picks and a very very very very special guest plus a third guest if atlanta wins the world series i promise remember that uh he could come on and do a victory lap about his braves but who knows by the time you hear this maybe they won the world series or maybe

we're going to a game seven we will see good luck ram is

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "A Two Week NBA Check in With Big Wos and Jake Paul on Changing Boxing and Influencer Culture"?

In order: 0:00 Jimmy Butler, Kyle Lowry, PJ Tucker, Lakers; 10:00 Alex Caruso, Lakers, Bradley Beal, DeMar DeRozan; 20:00 Marcus Smart, Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum, Kyle Lowry; 30:00 John Collins, Cam Reddish, Lakers, Marcus Smart; 40:00 Cavaliers, Lakers; 1:10:00 Tommy Fury, Tyson Fury; 1:20:00 Browns, Baker Mayfield; 1:30:00 Boxing Bullies.

What is mentioned in this The Bill Simmons Podcast episode?

41 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Alex Caruso, Lakers, Marcus Smart, Kyle Lowry, Jimmy Butler, PJ Tucker. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "A Two Week NBA Check in With Big Wos and Jake Paul on Changing Boxing and Influencer Culture"?

The episode runs 1 h 33 min; the transcript is about 16,986 words in 96 timestamped sections.

More from The Bill Simmons Podcast

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 24, 2026.