Bill Belichick Hall of Fame SNUB REACTION, Mike McCarthy, Joe Brady, Bills | Colin Cowherd: THE HERD

What this episode is about

The reaction to Bill Belichick's exclusion from the NFL Hall of Fame in his first year of eligibility has sparked outrage, with discussions focusing on potential biases among voters and the implications of recent changes in voting rules. The commentary also highlights Belichick's coaching record in relation to Tom Brady, suggesting that his success may be significantly tied to the quarterback's contributions.

Key takeaways

• Belichick's Hall of Fame wait highlights a voting tweak that favors coaches over legendary players. Curious, right?
• Without Brady, Belichick's success dipped like a bad sequel: from Oscar-winning to straight-to-DVD.
• Super Bowl week drama proves even titans face consequences; cheating leaves a stain, regardless of past glory.
• Comparing coaches reveals a pattern: legends had to earn their stripes, while Belichick may dodge the wait.
• The Hall of Fame vote mirrors political debates; when methods change, so do the outcomes—sometimes controversially.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Colin Cowherd (Host) · 41 min speaking
• Jac (Guest) · 6 min speaking
• Mike McCarthy (Guest) · 3 min speaking
• Seth Wickersham (Guest) · 6 min speaking
• Albert Breer (Guest) · 3 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: Super Bowl, NFL, Don Shula, NFL Hall of Fame
2. 5:00 – 10:00: Super Bowl, Joe Gibbs, Vince Lombardi, NFL Hall of Fame
3. 10:00 – 15:00: Jimmy Johnson, Super Bowl, Mike McCarthy, Pittsburgh Steelers
4. 15:00 – 20:00: Mike McCarthy, Pittsburgh Steelers, Hard Rock Bet
5. 20:00 – 25:00: Super Bowl, Drake May, Cleveland Browns, Ian Brady
6. 25:00 – 30:00: Ian Brady, Super Bowl
7. 30:00 – 35:00: Ian Brady, Super Bowl
8. 35:00 – 40:00: Jimmy Johnson, Super Bowl
9. 40:00 – 45:00: Jimmy Johnson, Albert Breer
10. 45:00 – 50:00: Mike McCarthy, Pittsburgh Steelers, Vince Lombardi, Albert Breer
11. 50:00 – 55:00: Ian Brady, Drake May
12. 55:00 – 58:38: Ian Brady, Jimmy Johnson, Super Bowl

Notable quotes from "Bill Belichick Hall of Fame SNUB REACTION, Mike McCarthy, Joe Brady, Bills | Colin Cowherd: THE HERD"

• Welcome to the Herd's official YouTube channel. Make sure to like and subscribe. Don't forget to check out the Colin Coward podcast, all of our NFL instant reactions, and more football.

  about NFL · at 0:00

• That what I'm about to explain to you went into consideration. Let me start with this. The winningest coach of all time, Don Schula, got to a Super Bowl with Dan Marino, David Woodley, and Earl Moral.

  about NFL Hall of Fame · at 1:07

• 11, 12 voters went timeout? The classiest guy ever, the winningest guy ever, the guy Bellich's been chasing forever, Don Schula, had to wait 5 years to even be eligible, and…

  about Don Shula · at 1:53

• Him. Was about to get fired in New England before Drew Bledo got hurt. And then the minute Brady left, he put a defensive coordinator in at OC.

  about Ian Brady · at 2:51

• You to consider it because Bellich is a Hall of Famer and will get in the third part. What is the most valuable week of the year in pro football?

  about Super Bowl · at 4:13

• Yeah, but that was in his infancy then back then, it was really early. I'm just curious, are you surprised by the whole craft situation?

  about Robert Kraft · at 11:53

• All right. Mike McCarthy is official. He is the Steeler coach. Big Ben says something I think's worth noting. That's next. That's the hurt.

  about Mike McCarthy · at 14:11

• Legit receiver, CD Lamb, and they finished with the number four offense in the league. So, the Steelers have been in the wilderness offensively for seven to eight years. I consider Mike McCarthy the compass that gets them back to offensive.

  about Pittsburgh Steelers · at 17:44

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Bill Belichick — Person · Primary referenced subject · 6 mentions
  Central figure in the segment debating why he was not voted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in his first year of eligibility (methodology, Brady-dependence, Spygate, and interpersonal reputation).
• Ian Brady — Person · Key comparator / causal factor in argument · 10 mentions · first at 3:20
  Presented as the superstar quarterback whose presence dramatically changes Belichick’s win rate and offensive output; also referenced in the fairness debate about eligibility timing (Brady must wait longer than coaches).
• Jimmy Johnson — Person · Referenced authority / emotional foil · 7 mentions · first at 0:34
  Cited as loudly protesting Belichick’s Hall of Fame omission and as an example of someone beloved by peers (contrasted with Belichick’s reputation). Also referenced as having waited a long time for induction.
  So, the interweb just went crazy last night. Jimmy Johnson's yelling, screaming, throwing pots and pans.
• Don Shula — Person · Historical comparator · 3 mentions · first at 1:12
  Used as the benchmark for coaching greatness and as evidence that even the winningest coach waited years for Hall of Fame eligibility/induction, supporting the argument that Belichick can 'wait a year.'
• Mike McCarthy — Person · Secondary topic (coaching hire discussion) · 10 mentions · first at 14:11
  Discussed as a 'safe' offensive-minded coaching hire (in the transcript framed as Steelers coach), used to argue that not every hire must be a genius-level swing to be effective.
• Robert Kraft — Person · Referenced stakeholder (owner) / subplot figure · 1 mention · first at 11:57
  Discussed as a Hall of Fame contributor candidate and as part of the 'ugly ending' subplot with Belichick in New England, implying politics/relationships may influence voting narratives.
• Drake May — Person · Referenced player (current storyline) · 6 mentions · first at 3:06
  Discussed as the Patriots quarterback with possible shoulder fatigue/injury and as a measuring stick in a broader QB evaluation debate (including Shadur Sanders comparison).
  In the one year, and think about this, Mike Frabel is getting to a Super Bowl with Drake May, who's not even a finished product, the current New England coach. Mike Frabel got a number one seed with Ryan.
• Vince Lombardi — Person · Historical comparator · 4 mentions · first at 5:53
  Used to argue that even iconic coaches (including the namesake of the Super Bowl trophy) did not necessarily get inducted immediately, supporting the 'make him wait a year' framing.
  Vince Lombardi, the guy they named the trophy after, did not get in first year eligible.
• Joe Gibbs — Person · Historical comparator · 3 mentions · first at 6:10
  Cited as an example of a coach with major achievements (three Super Bowls with different QBs) who still did not get in on first eligibility, reinforcing the argument that first-ballot timing varies.
  Three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks, the most underrated coach in the history of the league. Joe Gibbs first year eligibility doesn't get in.
• Albert Breer — Person · Referenced expert (upcoming/featured guest) · 2 mentions · first at 42:52
  Named as a live correspondent/guest from the Senior Bowl who discusses Hall of Fame voting mechanics and NFL coaching/quarterback market context.
  If you can be nice as often as you can be. I know it shouldn't matter, but it does. Albert Brer live from Mobile, Alabama at the Senior Bowl. okay. So, I said this before is…

Companies & orgs

• NFL — Company · Organization · 3 mentions · first at 0:50
  The governing body of professional football in the United States, central to the discussion of the Hall of Fame and Super Bowl.
• Pittsburgh Steelers — Company · Referenced team · 3 mentions · first at 14:11
  Mentioned in the context of discussing coaching hires and team performance in the NFL.
• Cleveland Browns — Company · Referenced team · 2 mentions · first at 20:06
  Mentioned in the context of discussing coaching hires and team performance in the NFL.
  Opponents for next year, but we'll do that later in the show. we got some breaking news. The Browns have announced they have hired Todd Monin. Yes, Todd Monkin is going to be…
• LSU — Company · Referenced institution · 4 mentions
  Mentioned in the context of discussing Joe Brady's success with the LSU football team.
  Under Ken Dorsey and Brian Dable, the offense was actually higher rated across the league. So, my take is and he had success with Joe Burrow and maybe the most talented college…

Places & events

• NFL Hall of Fame — Event · Core topic · 2 mentions · first at 0:50
  Central theme of the episode, discussing the eligibility and voting process for the NFL Hall of Fame, specifically focusing on Bill Bellichic's exclusion.
• Super Bowl — Event · Referenced event · 15 mentions · first at 1:15
  Mentioned in the context of discussing the achievements and controversies of coaches and players in relation to the NFL Hall of Fame.

Sponsors

• Hard Rock Bet — Company · Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at 14:32
  Presenting sponsor of the show, promoting sports betting and casino properties.
  Today's show brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet, Florida Sportsbook. The big game matchup is set. Patriots, Seahawks. Hard Rock Bet going to be a lot of different ways.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Welcome to the Herd's official YouTube channel. Make sure to like and subscribe. Don't forget to check out the Colin Coward podcast, all of our NFL instant reactions, and more football content. Ah, here we go. It is a Wednesday. People are fuming and outraged and enraged. It's the herd in Chicago, wherever you may be, however you may be listening. Good show today. Thanks for making us part of your day. So, the interweb just went crazy last night. Jimmy Johnson's yelling, screaming, throwing pots and pans. Bill Bellichic in his first year of eligibility did not get voted into the NFL Hall of Fame. Now, let's start with this. He will. He's a Hall of Famer. He'll get in. And we don't know that he didn't get 39 of the 50 votes.

0:58 I'm sure he got a majority. So, let's just start talking about is it possible possible that what I'm about to explain to you went into consideration. Let me start with this. The winningest coach of all time, Don Schula, got to a Super Bowl with Dan Marino, David Woodley, and Earl Moral. He had to wait five years until he was even eligible for the Hall of Fame. But because of a tweak this year in the voting, and I don't like this at all, coaches now can get in one year removed from being out of the league. So the greatest players can't, but coaches can.

1:50 Is it possible that a handful of voters, 11, 12 voters went timeout? The classiest guy ever, the winningest guy ever, the guy Bellich's been chasing forever, Don Schula, had to wait 5 years to even be eligible, and now because of a weird tweak, I got to put Bellich, who was a jerk, forever. And that does matter. I'll get to that later. Some of these voters are writers. I'm going to put him in day one. Nah, I'll put him in next year. That gets me to the second part of this. If you take out one superstar quarterback in Bellich's career, he has a winning percentage below Jerry Glennville and equal to Anthony Lynn.

2:36 With Brady, his team scored almost 29 points a game and he won 77% of his games. Without Brady, they scored 19 points and he wins 44%. And not only that, he was fired in Cleveland without him. Was about to get fired in New England before Drew Bledo got hurt. And then the minute Brady left, he put a defensive coordinator in at OC. In the one year, and think about this, Mike Frabel is getting to a Super Bowl with Drake May, who's not even a finished product, the current New England coach. Mike Frabel got a number one seed with Ryan Tanahill, the 17th best quarterback in the league.

3:19 Okay, Brady leaves and they can't score. They don't get offense. They're the worst drafting team in the league. I mean, Bill Parcels is his mentor. He won Super Bowls with Jeff Hostetler and Phil Sims was Parcel's was was Bellichc's mentor. He had to wait forever. Bill Parcels's ask yourself if there was a great movie director who made 20 movies. In 12 of them, he had a superstar actor and they won Oscars and they were amazing. In the eight other movies, he didn't have that one superstar actor and they were unwatchable. Dre, Porky's 2. Would it give you pause for five minutes to go, was it the director or the actor?

4:03 Even with a stacked roster, the one year Brady got hurt, they couldn't make the playoffs. And again, Vrabel got a number one seed with Ryan Tanahill. Okay. And here's the third part. I'm just asking you to consider it because Bellich is a Hall of Famer and will get in the third part. What is the most valuable week of the year in pro football? What is the one week of the year that the league values the most? Super Bowl week. And in 2007, it was tarnished because Bellichic footage of him taping another team and Roger Goodell had to go to the Super Bowl and all week long address Bellich's cheating.

4:49 Folks, you successful men out there, there is a tax in life. You can be a great husband for 45 years, but if your wife finds that one of those years you were cheating, you will sleep on the couch at minimum. There is a tax to pay if the most valuable week of the year you blew it up once cuz you were taping another team. So in review, Don Schula had to wait five years. Parcels, your mentor, waited forever. Your winning percentage is 44% without Brady and you blew up a Super Bowl week. If you have several asterisks by your name, is it okay to pause for a year?

5:43 My staff also did an interesting thing this morning. We went and looked at some of the other great coaches to see how quickly they got in. Vince Lombardi, you know, the guy they named the trophy after, did not get in first year eligible. Bill Walsh, the most innovative coach in the history of the league. Half the league uses his offense, did not get in first year eligible. Joe Gibbs in unquestionably three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks, the most underrated coach in the history of the league. Joe Gibbs first year eligibility doesn't get in.

6:27 Jimmy Johnson waited forever. Parcels waited. Andy Reed will have to wait. But because they tweaked, and I don't agree with this, they tweaked the voting so that coaches can now get right in. Somebody said Walsh didn't get in, Lombardi didn't get in, Gibbs didn't get. Make him wait a year. They may not be punishing Bellich check. They're punishing the voting methodology. So again, let's let's not argue that Bill is a Hall of Fame coach. Yes, absolutely. I would have voted him in. But when you change the voting methodology, I mean, this is what Biden and Trump argue.

7:14 Lines, where do you vote? Who's voting for who? Who's V? I mean, we can't even get our presidential election voting right. You cheated. You rigged it. You I mean, Hall of Fame voting's always been wonky. I mean, baseball's got a morality clause. Football doesn't. But But when you change it, sometimes stuff like this happens. He's getting in. But if you take a deep breath, I I think you have to. When Brady left went to Tampa, won a Super Bowl, and Bill's teams were awful. DC to OC. Doesn't that make you pause a little bit? I mean, what makes Christopher Nolan and Spielberg and the great director so amazing? They use all sorts of actors and and and writers and they can do it. That's what makes Joe Gibbs and Parcels and the great coach Bill Walsh and W Andy Reid gets to Super Bowls with guys not name Holmes. Andy Reid wins with everybody.

8:18 You take out Brady, you can't pause for a year and go again. You guys are all freaking out. He's getting in. He deserves to be in. But you start looking at the methodology. I do not like the idea that players have to wait for half a decade to be eligible and coaches can get in immediately. That makes no It's a players league, not a coaches league. I mean, I love Andy Reid. He won an oy trophy till Mahomes. How about this? Bill can get in once Tom's in since there's an argument to be made he was going to get fired. Bellich check in New England would have failed at both jobs had a sirly reputation and may have never had any of this debate because he didn't get another head job.

9:16 Brady's eligible in what 2028 Bill's eligible now? You like that? I don't like that. Jac, before I go to my next story, I I think it's interesting because when you start looking at who gets in and the eligibility, baseball's Hall of Fame is weird because they put in morality clauses

9:34 and you know, like are you a good person? Did you cheat? And there's been great consternation and debate on that. The NFL doesn't do that. But there are people voting on this who covered Bill. I mean, he wouldn't talk to I know two Hall of Fame voters he refused to talk to for 15 years. He held grudges. He could be petty. He could be difficult. And every business, including football coaching, is a is a people business. There was a reason when Jimmy Johnson got in on the set, all the other men there cried because Jimmy had been good to a lot of people. Bellich doesn't even have a coaching tree. I mean, seriously. I mean, it's like Shawn McVey relative to Bichc's been in the league 45 minutes.

10:16 He's got a coaching forest. So like there there there is something to be said in your life. It's not a morality thing. But if you if you dump on people, if you're difficult it Bobby Knight's life ended sadly while he was still coaching. Not I'm not talking his health deterioration. I'm talking his last eight nine years of coaching. He bullied people. He alienated people. Even Coach K like stop connecting with him. Coach K is like I'm not going to deal with you. I'm not going to talk with you. If you treat people like that, nobody's saying you won't get in. Howard Stern took forever to get into the Hall of Fame and radio.

10:52 Why? He made fun of the Hall of Fame and radio. Everybody knew he and Rush Limbaugh dominated American radio. But if you poke people in the ribs, you're difficult. You mock. You You rip. You Well, don't be surprised if there's a little bit a 12month tax on your actions and personality. Just a just a little bit of a tax. You sleep on the couch for a night or two. It's all I'm saying. But can you still take the whole Hall of Fame vote seriously, Colin? If when you see all the 15, 20, 30 names up eligible for the Hall of Fame and you go through them, you see Bill Bichc's name, that's an automatic he's in. He's one of my top, right? I mean, let's look at the president. Why wasn't that the case with Parcels or Jimmy Johnson or Vince Lombardi or Bill Walsh or Joe Gibbs? The damn trophy guy didn't get in. Well, Bellich has more trophies, I think, than all those guys maybe combined.

11:45 More trophies, it's a different world. But I I if if they if they're if you literally have a trophy named after you, you think you would have got in rather quickly.

11:53 Yeah, but that was in his infancy then back then, you know, it was it was really early. I'm just curious, are you surprised by the whole craft situation? Uh, you know, he he's been waiting, I think, 14 years to get into the Hall of Fame and now he would have be gone in with Bellichic if they both got in this time. And by all accounts, it sounds like Craft's getting in and Bichc is not. H interesting subplot given their ugly ending in New England. Remember that?

12:18 Be beyond ugly. I mean, they initially said it was a there's a mutually parting of ways. 10 months later, craft on record. Oh, I fired him. You know, I I took a risk on that guy. It's been ugly between those two. I think the subplots here are fascinating Colin.

12:32 Yeah. And I and and again, Bill's getting in. He may have gotten 39 of the 50 votes, but remember in the football voting, five people are eligible. You only get a vote for three. I mean, it's just ridiculous. So, all these Hall of Fame votes are I mean, voting in America for presidents is convoluted, difficult redistricting. I mean, we This is what we argue about every four years.

12:59 This side cheated, this redistric voting like for this stuff, all voting is weird. It should be more transparent. I think when you vote for a Hall of Fame, you should be able to go in and say somebody gets in or they don't. It shouldn't be limited to I can vote for two of five or three of five. Bill Bellich, do you think he's in or not? Yes.

13:17 Yes. You shouldn't be you shouldn't qualify it based on well I I've got to let this guy in and that guy not it. So the the whole thing I I I don't mind a handful of sports writers who covered the league forever being part of it. I would put executives, coaches, few of those. It's like if you're an observer to something, you can have a right to vote in any hall of fame. It could be radio. I mean, I was just uh in a radio hall of fame dinner. There were executives, there were hosts, there were local, there were syndicated, there were salespeople there. You know, all sorts of people matter in any business.

13:48 But you're right, the voting like I love Roger Craig, you know, they Roger Craig on the Niners, the high stepping tough running back.

13:55 He's awesome. HOW COULD YOU VOTE ROGER CRAIG INTO THE HALL OF FAME OVER BILL BICH? Like on no level does that make an ounce of sense? That's just one guy.

14:03 I'm just saying. But Bill is going to get in. He is. Yeah. He's just sleeping on the couch for a year. How about that?

14:11 Um, all right. Mike McCarthy is official. He is the Steeler coach. Big Ben says something I think's worth noting. That's next. That's the hurt. Today's show brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet, Florida Sportsbook. The big game matchup is set. Patriots, Seahawks. Hard Rock Bet going to be a lot of different ways. You can get it on next Sunday's action. Uh if you haven't signed up with Hard Rock Bet, never been a better time. This week, launching a brand new welcome offer for new customers. Plus, Hard Rock Bet is kicking off its $7 million big game bonus party available to all users.

14:59 You're definitely not going to want to miss that. And if you're in Florida or Jersey, the big game energy doesn't just live exclusively on the app. Head to Hard Rock Casino property for drawings, giveaways, all the excitement leading up to kickoff. So, Hard Rock Bet also offers new promos every day. So, if you're listening to this later, just open up the app and check out what you got any day of the week. That's Hard Rock Bet. Download the Hard Rock Bet app and make your first deposit today. So Mike McCarthy at the end of yesterday's show uh was hired as the Pittsburgh Steelers coach. I thought Ben Rothllessberger uh you know along with Terry Bradshaw have been the two great quarterbacks in Steeler history and Big Ben says here's the one thing about Mike McCarthy that is a gamecher in Pittsburgh.

15:54 I think you bring you bring a new a new voice into the locker room because sometimes a voice u the message can get repetitive and can get you call it stale but it can just get repetitive. We finally have an offensive-minded coach in here that we we've never had. I believe Chuck Null is defense as well. I assume you know and all the defensive head coaches we've had.

16:12 I'm so excited for an offensive minded coach because I think we have to score more than six points in a playoff game. Um, yeah. Like this is why Mike McCarthy isn't a bad hire. He's safe. He's a little uninspiring. It reminds me this week I watched a movie on Netflix called RIP with Matt Damon and Ben Affleck. And the critics are like, "Well, it did not elevate the genre." Now, get out of here. Either do your columns. Oh, it it was a terrible It was a It was a weak swing. Not every painting's a Picasso and not every hire is Shawn McVey. doesn't make it a terrible movie. It doesn't make it a terrible hire. I was entertained for 90 minutes with Matt and Ben. And I will say this, McCarthy, if Aaron Rogers plays next year, probably wins 10 games.

17:01 I mean, folks, John Malovic, maybe our greatest living actor, did Conair, okay? Not everything is art, even in a world of art. And this is an organization not only seven straight years of a bottom bottom 10 offense. No, it's worse than that. In the last seven years, they have the 32nd ranked run game. And you can say what you want about McCarthy, but if he and Aaron Rogers next year together, I'll take the over on wins at nine or 10. I really will. I mean, in Dallas one year, Mike McCarthy won season had the number four total offense. Cooper Rush started five games. Dak got hurt and they had one legit receiver, CD Lamb, and they finished with the number four offense in the league. So, the Steelers have been in the wilderness offensively for seven to eight years. I consider Mike McCarthy the compass that gets them back to offensive civilization.

18:04 They'll be competent. They'll spend more money. Again, not every movie is good, fellas. rip on Netflix. It's entertaining. I I'm sitting there. My wife's like, "You want to watch a movie? I watch I make her watch football all season." I'm like, "I'll watch it." It's entertaining. Yeah. I'm not It's not Scorsese. It's not The Irishman. It's not, you know, it's not one of Christopher Nolan's best. It was entertaining. Mike McCarthy's fine. You know, he's an emotional guy. I mean, he here he was yesterday. It's hard not to root for a guy who starts crying at the mic.

18:40 You know, often times coaches and players, you know, you put on new team colors and it takes it takes a minute to feel comfortable in those new colors. Uh but to be blessed beyond any measure one day to put on the colors you wore since you brought home, I apologize. I understand and embrace the responsibility, the privilege, and the weight that comes with this stewardship. uh this city, this franchise, this fan base, uh means the world to me because Pittsburgh is my world and uh it's just awesome to be back here. I mean, what am I going to root against that guy?

19:22 What I have no soul? Of course, I'm going to root for him. I want to see him win. I just got tired of the repetitive defensive spending. They'll be more of an offensive organization. I agree with Big Ben. I'm I'm excited to see it and I hope Aaron Rogers does come back. I mean, J-Max said seven wins. If Aaron and Mike McCarthy are together next year, I'll say it right now. It's a 10- win team. Not saying it's winning anything beyond that. It's a 10- win team. Go ahead. You doubted me on the Patriots and the Seahawks. Jac Jac with the news.

19:53 NO. NO. TURN ON THE NEWS. THIS is the herd line news. Do it at your own peril. I'm scrambling to look up the Steelers opponents for next year, but we'll do that later in the show. Uh, we got some breaking news. The Browns have announced they have hired Todd Monin. Yes, Todd Monkin is going to be the new head coach in Cleveland. He was the Ravens OC uh with Harbaugh. Todd Monin, 59 years old. Interesting nugget from the Athletic. Monin was in Cleveland as the OC in 2019 and allegedly told opposing teams coaches the Browns were a mess. A to sorry a total mess which is not really a surprise. I do say I think the Monkin Shadore pairing is good news for Shador Sanders because Monin is a is a pretty sharp offensive guy. I won't talk about the game plan against the Chiefs in the AFC Championship that cost me money but overall I think Monkin kind of a good offensive mind could do could work well

20:51 with Shador. It sounds like Jim Schwarz, their DC who was highly thought of and was up for the job is going to be leaving. He wants nothing to do with Cleveland anymore.

20:58 Yeah, I mean I it's fine. I think when you I mean when's the last time the sixth or seventh hire in a coaching cycle was the great hire. I think it could work fine. I think Cleveland has been a mess. I wouldn't have let go of Stfansky who interviewed for every top job, but it's Cleveland, so this is what they do. I think it's I mean I there's not a single coaching hire I'm I'm like oh that is destined to be a failure. I think Jesse Mentor is going to do really well in Baltimore. I think John Harbaugh is going to crush with the New York Giants. And I think eventually if Pennix can be healthy uh whatever they do at quarterback. I think Stfansky will do very well in Atlanta uh after that. I mean I the rest of the hires Joe Brady and Buffalo Todd Mon you got a lot of you got a great quarterback and you got some really good players so it I mean can he win seven games next year certainly possible.

21:49 Yeah. I mean somebody's making the point that hey the two teams in the Super Bowl this year they weren't in the playoffs last year. Anybody can do it. And let's just pump the brakes on that. Okay. Drake May, they had their quarterback in New England. I I'm sorry. I don't think Shadur is in the Drake May class. I don't think he's a franchise guy. He'll get a year. He'll get a crack at it.

22:06 Sure. But the Browns have a major uphill climb. Offensive skill position players are so weak.

22:11 I just I mean good luck to Todd Mon. First head coaching job at 59. Proud happy for the guy. All right, let's move on to the Patriots. Colin Drake May, the secondyear quarterback in the Super Bowl. There are, you know, let me say this. There's speculation he may have an injured shoulder on his throwing arm. Mike Vrabel was asked about it yesterday uh and said, "Hey, this time of the year, nobody's 100%." Then May went on a weekly radio spot on WEII and had this to say about a potential injury.

22:45 I'm feeling good. Um we got some extra rest and really only thing is from the game. I think just a built up of throwing for this is what almost including training camp 30 weeks straight of of throwing and and four days a week it can uh add up. But not we got some extra rest and I'm feeling good and um you know ready to go for Super Bowl

23:04 sounds like some excuses for a guy who's throwing at 55% completions in the playoffs. Colin, I like Drake May again. You go back to our draft stuff. Everybody loved Jaden. I said no. Drake May is my guy. We you can look it up. I I just He's been awful this postseason. There is no argument. And don't give me this weather.

23:23 It was a one half of bad weather against the Broncos. Okay. So, he's very young and also um the offensive line for the Patriots is absolutely the weak part of their team. And it should be noted the Texans and the Broncos may have the two best pass rushes in the league against his really average O line. These have not been great matchups. I look at it the other way. The fact that they were able to score enough points to win when the weakness of their team is O line. And I think it's the number one question in the Seahawks Patriots Super Bowl. Can they block the Seahawks O line? Because Seattle will score on New England. Se JSN's going to get his catches.

24:04 Seattle's going to score on New England some. The question is, can they move the ball on that Seahawks defense? Now, the all they have to do if you're the Patriot is watch the Matt Stafford film because he went through it twice. Hot knife through butter. So, I think it's going to be a really good Super Bowl right today. I would take the Patriots and the points. I think four and a half, five points for this football team that's won 16 to 17 who's going to here for two weeks. They have no chance to win. I think Vel is brilliant. Josh McDaniel, Drake May, good defense. Been here before. I think it's a really good Super Bowl. Wow. Okay. All right. Let's go to the final story, Colin. That's the LA Super Chargers. They have Mike McDaniel as their new OC. People are downright giddy out here. I'm not even kidding, Colin. There is so much excitement for pairing Mike McDaniel with Justin Herbert. Um, and here's

24:54 McDaniel talking about Herbert's ceiling and just how damn good of a quarterback he is.

25:00 Not relying too heavily on on Justin's ability to do um above and beyond, I think, is is uh critical to maximize those types of types of opportunities. you know, that'll be one of the first things that we'll try to do is um you know, take a little off his plate so that he is free to do that um when you know his greatness is required. You try to take it off of him by creating some um lowcost, highreward uh offense that, you know, he's firmly capable of doing, but maybe a player of lesser talent would be capable of doing as well.

25:37 Yeah, it's going to work. You know, there's certain things that are going to work. John Harbaugh, New York. They're gonna do fine. Mike McDaniel, OC in LA. That's gonna work. I mean, there's certain things. By the way, Brian Dable, offensive coordinator with Salah down in Tennessee. I'm They're going to double their win total. I don't know how great they are, but you got one of the best defensive minds, an excellent offensive coach. Tennessee's got a fortune they can spend on players. There's If three things I think are absolutely true.

26:06 Harbaugh doubles the win total. The Chargers offense is suddenly really good. And Tennessee crushed it.

26:14 And they don't crush a lot in Tennessee. Tennessee crushed it this year in the coaching cycle. Coordinator, head coach.

26:21 So Colin, this is a interesting mix. You've got Harbaugh, who is very quirky, right? Is that a good word for for Jim Harbaugh? He's a little quirky. He's a little stuff he says, the interview. Exactly. McDaniel, the smart guy from Yale, not really a a football guy. Harball's one of these like

26:38 right McDaniel's the opposite. And then you've got Herbert, who I think you had said back in the day he was like a 40 student at Oregon who was a bio major or something like that. You have a really interesting trio. This is for me would be a great team the league would spotlight in like a Hard Knocks or one of these shows. I'm very interested. You know, you we go to Vegas a lot. This will be one of the few teams I bet to win the Super Bowl next year. I think this team is really making a leap, Colin.

27:04 Wow. Jack with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by. The herd lie news.

27:11 Now, I said this earlier, Major League Baseball has a morality clause in their Hall of Fame and football doesn't. But that doesn't mean treating people poorly for 20 years. That's not a morality issue. That's a personality issue. And if you know people who cover you, you probably shouldn't treat them really, really poorly. You know, if you build walls and make enemies, don't be shocked if nobody shows up to your birthday party. Bellich went out of his way to make people uncomfortable who covered him. It shouldn't matter, folks.

27:46 It matters. It matters in your job. It always every single business, including mine, is a people business. Doesn't mean I love everybody I've ever worked for, but there's no reason to spit on them. And Bellich has no coaching tree his way or the highway. Relative to how long he's been in the league, McVeyy's got seven guys in the league. So, I mean, he doesn't get along with Bob Craft, who's probably trusted more than any owner by Roger Goodell. Bob Craft made him the richest coach in the league. Won't speak to him. Uh Tom Brady, who by the way kind of saved his career to some degree, never had dinner in 20 years with him, never broke bread once. Um I mean Bellichic was five and 13 in New England and Brady started.

28:33 Okay. And the winds started cascading downhill. And so again, you say it shouldn't matter. I mean, you are completely naive. If you think a museum or a hall of fame in any industry, if you whiz on people, you build walls, you make enemies, you mock and poke, and you think they're all going to go, "Come on in. First eligibility." They're not. I mean, that's it. It's And I know powerful rich guys think they're always going to get their way, but they don't win every election and they don't always get their way. And Bill's going to get in. And again, I understand that some people are just grumpy and closed off and don't have big personalities.

29:14 Nobody's saying you have to be a boy scout. Nobody's saying you have to come in and give the sports writers apples and cookies. But I mean, Bill was difficult with his owner. No dinner. The other day, Jules Edelman, Julian Edelman was asked on a podcast, "Do you ever remember Bill doing something nice for you?" He's like, "Well, he he drafted me." I mean, like everything had to be difficult. And I again, that doesn't mean Bill doesn't have a heart. Doesn't mean he's a bad dad. It doesn't mean anything. But I'm saying we're talking about first year of eligibility, anonymous voting into a Hall of Fame.

29:55 He may have ticked off 11 people. For the record, the 11 that didn't vote him in, if that's the number, probably would vote him in next year. So you you everybody is everybody there's an old saying about everybody learns at a different rate. It's the same way with Hall of Fames. Everybody gets in at a different rate. Sometimes it's first bout Derek Jeter that that that I mean in the history of baseball hall of fames. I think I'm right on this. I don't have it in front of me. Nobody's ever gotten Has anybody ever gotten a 100% of the vote?

30:33 You think like Hank Aaron would get 100% of the vote. I don't know if anybody's ever gotten 100% of the vote in the Baseball Hall of Fame. I can see one of my producers scrambling. I'm sure it's possible, but I mean, I grew up with Johnny Bench. Johnny Bench, he was the best catcher for like 15 years in baseball. He won titles. He hit for power. He was the had the best arm. He threw out the runners. I I remember when he got in, I'm like, not every How do you not vote for him? I don't even understand that. I mean, Mariano Rivera was the greatest closer of all time. Did he get a 100% of the votes? Did Mariano is he the only one?

31:11 He is. Okay. Mariano Rivera, there you go. Is the only player ever? So, you're going to tell me a guy that pitched seven pitches in his usual outing gets in and there's all these great pitchers, starting pitchers, wear and tear, 20 years. So, I mean, it's it's the closer. And I hey I got no problem with Mariana Rivera getting in with 100% of the vote. I got no he's one of the classiest guys ever but but could you make this argument of all the great baseball players ever Babe Ruth Mantel Kofax is part of the reason Mariano Rivera because it wasn't innings pitched one of the reasons he got a 100% of the votes because he's the nicest guy that's ever played that Mariano Rivera is the classiest nicest human being that has maybe ever played the game.

32:06 I I He didn't get it because of innings pitched. He also blew a World Series against Arizona. You could have argued he gets 98% of the vote. He got a hundred. And I think a lot of it is he was so gracious. He was so humble. He was so decent. And he was great. But there's been a lot of great in baseball. It's the herd.

32:38 Um, about once a year, Seth Wickersam stops by the show. Senior writer at ESPN, New York Times bestselling author. I don't know how he's a senior writer anywhere since he looks like Joe Burrow's younger brother. Uh, but Seth is now joining us live. The man does not age, but let's let's get to the football stuff. How you doing, Seth? Oh, I made the argument with the voting methodology changing. We all know Bellich's a Hall of Famer that now coaches can get right in, players still can't. It's like, wait, so so Brady has to wait till 2028.

33:13 Bellich can get right in. Is some of this maybe maybe voters saying, "Well, Lombardi, Walsh waited. Shula waited. Gibbs waited. It's okay if Bill waits a year." Is some of it just the methodology methodology change in the voting?

33:31 Well, thanks man. And you know, look, if you have Burrow on the show, maybe, you know, don't mention that I'm look like his little brother. I think that that would probably lead to some awkward content. Um,

33:42 I think that there is something to the methodology change, but not quite that. I think so this is interesting is that like a couple years ago they changed the groups of people who get in and they created the Hall of Fame did created this hodgepodge of senior players, coaches and contributors. So this is why in case your viewers are wondering we have Bill Bich up against Roger Craig and Ken Anderson the quarterback for the Bengals of the 70s to make it into the Hall of Fame. and there's 50 voters and they can vote for three candidates. And I think that's where things got really tricky. I think that there's some voters who didn't vote for him because of Spygate and because of the, you know, the cheating and the rule breaking that happened during that time. And then I think there's a lot of voters who tried to vote for their guys with the assumption that Bellich was going to get in. I think they figured that it was a

34:43 faded comple. So because of that, it's like this perfect storm of, you know, dysfunction where a guy who has eight Super Bowl rings and is the second winningest coach of all time, greatest coach at least of the Super Bowl era in the NFL, didn't get in. I think that's what happened.

35:01 Uh Spygate, listen, a lot of coaches, Bill Cower, Jimmy Johnson have said, you know, a lot of people were taping. I made the argument the most valuable week of the year in American sports and certainly for the NFL is Super Bowl week. Roger Goodell in 2007 had to answer questions for six days and it it burned a lot of bridges. Um I mean and Bill's good at bridge burning and being a little petty.

35:26 Spygate is is that you know baseball's got a morality clause NFL doesn't. Do you think that turned off a few voters at least one time? Yeah. And I think that Bichc was probably, look, they were taping it from the illegal location for seven years before they got caught. You know, the league had sent Belich three letters warning him to stop and he didn't do it.

35:49 Then I think Belichc's paying also a price for the way that the investigation was conducted, which was really a matter of days. It's kind of astonishing to think about now, but here you had this like longtime taping operation and Ernie Adams and Bill Bichc, two of the best football minds at the time in the middle of it. And three Super Bowls won by a total of nine points by that moment in time. And really what happened was that, you know, they they started the investigation and closed it within a week. and Jeff Pash, the general counsel for the NFL at the time, went to Gillette Stadium and stomped tapes into pieces in a conference room, leaving it for the Patriots executives to clean up, by the way. So, there was like an entire perception that the league was covering up and swept all this stuff under the rug for Bellich and for Robert Craft.

36:38 And that really came back around on deflategate where we wrote about how that was a quote makeup call for Spygate. And I still think that there's some of that lingering. Um, you know, there's, you know, we wrote about Bill Polon in the article. You know, those teams that had to compete against Bellich haven't forgotten those things.

36:56 That's right. But I also think that, you know, for some of the writers in the room, they're not as personally offended as maybe someone like Tony Dunie or Bill Bich would be.

37:06 Um, do we know you got to get 40 out of 50 votes? He could have gotten 39. I mean, I mean, my take is we don't know what the vote total is. Seth, do you have any idea what the vote total was? I don't and I do know that um this is a piece of reporting from my colleague Don Vanata who who we worked on the story together. Belich was expecting that he was going to get 49 votes like privately that was his expectation that he would get 49 votes and obviously he didn't come close to 40 and I think that that's pretty interesting. Um and again how that happened is really difficult like it wasn't like the Hall of Fame wanted us to break this story yesterday. They didn't. And a lot of the voters didn't know that Bellich hadn't gotten in. You see a lot of their reactions on social media and they were blowing up Don and I's phones for sure saying like this is an embarrassment for all of us. We had no idea that Bellich didn't get in.

38:00 You know, I said the only uh I was told uh by my producer the only baseball hall of fame inductee to get a 100% of the vote was Mariano Rivera. And I said it's not because he was the most productive. It's because he was great and the most humble, gracious human being that's arguably ever played. It does matter. We're all in a people business. And Bill held grudges to this day and can be petty and maybe there's a voter that was. I do think when you build up walls,

38:31 you may lose a vote or two that you don't want to hear that. You know, football doesn't have a morals clause like baseball. But

38:38 yeah, people are human. I mean, I I I I mean, I think that probably cost him a couple of votes. No.

38:45 Well, my guess would be that there wasn't someone who was going to vote for him um who didn't vote for him because of that, but it may have not, you know, it may have it may have given some people the impetus to say, "Hey, let's vote for Roger Craig and Elsie Greenwood and Robert Craft,"

39:02 right? Because again, I think the assumption among the voters was that Bellich was going to get in. And so this result was as surprising for them as it was for the rest of us. You know, Bill Bich was called by the Hall of Fame on Friday as like a courtesy call to say that, you know, you didn't get in. You know, don't come to Santa Clara and wait around for a knock on your hotel door. It's not going to happen. And I think that like he was certainly disappointed by that, you know, as one could expect because again, it wasn't just the narrative that, you know, he's clearly a first ballot hall of famer. that he himself expected that he would get at least 49 votes.

39:42 One more question, two minutes. You talked to Shawn Payeyton after the loss. He got beat up a lot, maybe deservedly so for the fourth down call. I didn't mind going for it. I did not like a roll out to a backup quarterback. Bo Nick's rolling out is different than Jared Stum rolling out. What did he say?

40:00 Yeah. Yeah. I spent a lot of time with Shawn Peyton. I mean, you know, I was in his office at at the in next to the locker room in the stadium when he walked in after the game and I mean, he was a weathered and beaten and somewhat in shock person and he said, you know, I can't believe we lost that game. And the first thing he said was, he goes, "That fourth down." And, you know, about 20 minutes later, I did talk to him about that. Um, and I think that like he kind of philosophically was where you are. I think that he wanted to go for it. The Broncos have general, you know, each team has different metrics or philosophies when it comes to first downs. The Broncos have a general philosophy that if you drive down the field and you're moving the ball, which they were, you go for it. If you hit the ball off a turnover, you take the the three points. So, they were moving the ball.

40:52 Shawn had called a run and the defense that they came out in surprised him. So, he called a timeout and he switched to a pass. And that's where I think he made the mistake. I think that and I think that he he regrets the roll out pass and he wishes he had just stuck with the play call that they had before or or by the way gone to the line tried to draw them off sides if they had failed kick the field goal. I think those are the things he's thinking about now. But when I talked to him I didn't sense a lot of regret for going forward on for on fourth down right there. He he told me he goes I wanted it to be 14 nothing.

41:27 Um, you know, I think that what he regrets is what happened after the timeout and the fact that they the and this is, you know, look, it's not just Shawn Peyton's fault. Mike Vrabel, they had studied the Patriots defenses on short yardage in the red zone, and they were mostly a man-to-man defense, and they came out and played zone, surprised the Broncos, and then that that play had no chance because of it.

41:48 Seth Wickers Sham, senior writer, ESPN, been there more than two decades. He always joins us on late notice. Great stuff on Bellich and Payton. Thank you so much, Seth. I appreciate it.

41:58 My pleasure, man. Great to see you as always. All right. Um, yeah, there there is there just a lot of things. So much of Hall of Fame voting, you know, everybody wants to now blow it up and start over. By and large, the people in the Hall of Fames deserve to be in Hall of Fame. There's every Hall of Fame. It could be the culinary hall of fame, if there is such a thing. There's some chef who was nice to people and uh, you know, didn't make the the greatest food. Okay? Like there's there's always those kind of on the margins people that get into Hall of Fames. I think they overwhelmingly eventually get it right. We just don't like the timing of this. We don't love the timing of it. Bill Bich is getting in. And he may have gotten 39. He may have been one vote shy. This wasn't zero to 50. Nobody gave him a vote. I'm pretty sure of that. Hour two next.

42:52 Here we go. It's hour two. Albert Brer around the corner. Jimmy Johnson is all fired up. The Hall of Fame coach. Boy, he's mad at me. He wants Bellich, his fishing buddy, to be in the Hall of Fame. Jimmy Johnson in one hour. He's all worked up. I love it. So, can I tell you a story? Um, my dad um gave me two great pieces of advice that I think of regularly. Uh, just give me a couple minutes on this. So, one of the pieces of advice my dad gave me, we had a house on the coast of Washington, and we had a long driveway, and about halfway down the driveway, uh, I had a basketball hoop. My dad put a basketball hoop up, and it was next to the place where we kept our firewood.

43:34 Um, and, uh, one time my dad comes down to get some wood to put up in the, you know, the the wood stove. And I'm sitting there taking hook shots and playing basketball by myself, which I often did. And my dad called me Tiger. He said uh he grabbed the firewood and he turned around. He goes, "Tiger, why would you ever take a shot when you're by yourself that you wouldn't take in a game? Practice the stuff you're going to do in the game." That has lived with me for 50 years. Like, don't waste time. And I tell my kids that. Practice what you're going to do in life. Don't waste time taking hook shots in your yard from 40 feet. The second piece of advice my dad gave me was many decisions in your life about your career will be made when you're not in the room.

44:31 Also known as lubricate society, don't agitate it. Bill Bellichic was called and told he didn't make the Hall of Fame. Bill wasn't in the room. Bill Bich controlled the rooms he was in. the one room he needed people to raise their hand in his favor, he wasn't there and the voters maybe were as petty as Bill can be. That's part of it, right? A lot of decisions are made about your employment, your legacy, your career, your opportunities when you and I aren't in the rooms. If you can be nice as often as you can be. I know it shouldn't matter, but it does. Albert Brer live from Mobile, Alabama at the Senior Bowl. Um, okay. So, you know, I I said this before is that they changed some of the methodology in voting. So, now coaches can get right in after they retire with one year. Brady still can't get in until like 2028. the coaches can. And I said, "Is it possible, and you covered, Bill, I said, is it possible that people said,

45:49 well, Lombardi didn't get in initially, Walsh didn't, Gibbs didn't, Don Schula, who Bellich's been chasing, had to wait five years. You changed your methodology. Bill's going to get in next year. But if all these other legends didn't and had to wait five years, you can wait one. Is that possible? It was just maybe."

46:09 Yeah, I think I think it could be a couple things. First of all, so everybody understands the process, there are five guys, you know, in this voting pool. And um and so those five guys, three seniors candidates is Ken Anderson, Roger Craig, and Elsie Greenwood. A contributor, that's Robert Craft, coach Bill Bich. So the voters, the 50 voters have to pick three of the five, which basically means there's 150 votes total, and you have to win 40 of those 150 votes. Um which is a lot if you think about it. you're competing with four other people in this zero someum game and so they do take votes away from each other.

46:45 I'm explaining that because I do think one piece of this could be where you know a certain voter feels married to a player that's up as as a senior's committee candidate and thinks he's not going to get he's not going to be he's not going to be nominated again. Bill's going to be nominated until he gets in. So like let's just put the player in over the over the coach. But I I personally think that's the absolute wrong way to look at this. I

47:10 I I think you have to look at these things as yes or no questions, Colin. You know, is he a Hall of Famer or is he isn't.

47:16 That's how I view it. That's how I would vote. Yes or no to me is pretty simple.

47:20 Yes or no. And I think, you know, like I can understand like where maybe you think four of those guys are qualified, right? But you can only vote for three. So fine, one of them gets lpped off. But it shouldn't be like gamed like, oh well, Bill will have another chance. No, it's the three most qualified guys. That's what a first ballot hall of famer is. It's to me it's not like some sort of like separate category um that you should be well he needs to be clean rules p from a rules perspective. He needs to be clean off the field all that different stuff like that to me shouldn't be what it is. The first ballot hall of famer I think in any sport should be the guy that you cannot say no to and that's what Bill is as a coach.

47:58 Okay. Okay. Hey, we got a bunch of stuff here to talk about beyond Bichc because he will eventually get in obviously and it's it's kind of the topic of the day,

48:06 but I I want to ask you about um the Steelers. So, I said I was making a joke. I just watched the movie. You you would appreciate this with Affleck and Damon on Netflix called RIP. And all the you know the critics are savaging it. They're saying h it doesn't elevate the genre. And I'm like it was fine. I was entertained for 90 minutes. I came home from work. My wife wanted to watch it and I make her watch football all year. And I said that's Mike McCarthy. Okay, it's not Shawn McVey, but it's like,

48:32 yep, he did have the number four offense in a year. Cooper Cup started, Cooper Rush started five games. And you can say what you want about him, but when Dak was upright, top 10 offense, won 12 games. He he Aaron Rogers and him split, but now you can look at it and think Aaron was as much the blame for that as Mike McCarthy. Like it's not a bad hire. I mean, was he always the front runner, I guess, is my question. No, you know, I think that they did look down did they did start to go down the path they've normally gone down, which is finding a guy in his 30s that maybe not everybody's looking at the same way they are. Okay.

49:06 Um, you know, Chuck Null, I believe, was 37. Bill Cower was 34, Mike Tomlin was 34. So, this is a departure. On his first day in the office, Mike McCarthy becomes the oldest coach in Pittsburgh Steelers history, the 93y year history of the Steelers. So, this is definitely different. I I think what's most interesting about it, at least as I see it, and this is what I've heard some people say who went through there, they don't want to be bad and I think you look at their roster, right? And they're kind of at this natural point. You and I have talked about this with the older players there, Aaron Rogers, TJ Watt, Jaylen Ramsay, Isaac Samola, Susola, like they relied on guys like Adam Thieland during this year. Marquez Valdez Gantling. To me, it's like screaming for it's sort of time to tear it down. And maybe if you have to be bad for a year or two, it's not the worst thing in the world. And the more I talk

49:59 to people about this, I don't think the Roies want to be bad. And I think there's something to that whole Mike Tomlin thing of just being pretty good for an extended period of time.

50:10 I don't think the Rooneyies want to sink to the bottom of the league. And if you're looking in the situation that you're in right now, not to sink to the bottom of the league and and to try to get something out of what you've got left with the veteran players. Yeah.

50:22 Well, then yeah, it does make sense to bring in a more experienced guy. Is it the right thing to do or would you have been better off hiring a Chris Shoula? That remains to be seen. But I think a huge piece of this is we're not looking to go four and 13 and develop a young coach here. We want to continue to contend.

50:41 Yeah. uninspiring, but I I get the reasoning. So, uh, Joe Brady's interesting. So, I I I asked the question to the audience yesterday. Do we know if he's better than Shawn McDermott? Not really. I could argue under Ken Dorsey and Brian Dable, the offense was um actually higher rated across the league. So, my take is and he had success with Joe Burrow and maybe the most talented college team I've ever seen, LSU. There's some success on the resume with Burrow and Josh Allen. But um I mean I I guess my take was this was Josh Allen having a big say because and I I said this if you're not going to get John Harbaugh or Jim Harbaugh or Kyle Shanahan from Atlanta when everybody knew that works

51:22 then then Joe Joe Brady is comfortable and I understand comfort when you don't get the number one guy on the market like it felt like Josh said you know what I don't want to learn another offense I know him. I mean, is it possible that Josh had more say than we think here?

51:39 I think Josh did have a say. I mean, he was one of like six or seven guys in the room. So, it was the Pagoulas. It was Brandon Bean, their GM Bean's top two lieutenants, Terrence Gray and and Brian Ga and Josh Allen. So, like that's the group, right? Like it's a very it was a small group. And I do think that continuity was a huge piece of this in two different ways. Number one, obviously the offense has been pretty good, right? top five in the league the last two years. We can argue whether or not it looks smoother when Ken Dorsy or or or Brian Dal were calling the plays, but it has been productive the last couple of years. You get the scheme familiarity that you were talking about.

52:17 There's also that you're not projecting the relationship between coaching and scouting, which is part of the deal when you decide to keep the GM and not the coach. the GM is going to be more comfortable that coaching and scouting are going to be aligned, you know, if he he's bringing in somebody he knows, which obviously he had that with Shawn McDermott going all the way back to Carolina with him and now he has that with Joe Brady. I thought this was the interesting part, though. I was told the part of the interview that he really nailed was the CEO as head coach piece of the interview. And it's interesting, I'll take you back five years. when Joe Brady was still in Carolina before he got fired there. He went and interviewed with the Atlanta Falcons and he had almost no experience. He was a hot name because of what happened at LSU, but he I mean hit a walk-off home run in that in that interview and almost wound up

53:05 getting that job. He was the runner up to Arthur Smith who everyone wanted that off season. And I just filed that away. Like this guy interviews really well. And so putting that together with what happened in Buffalo with his vision for what the program should be as the CEO as head coach, I think gave Brandon Bean and those guys a little bit of a feeling of we get the offense.

53:28 Yeah. And now we get this vision that he's had all along that a lot of other teams were buying into in the interview room as well.

53:36 Okay. Um I I I want to Darnold meets Drake May and it's pretty well documented. I' I really like Darnold a lot. Maybe it's the USC thing or just I like him as a guy,

53:46 but I always kind of believed he was too talented not to win. So when Brady Brady was leaving New England, there were two teams that really came after him hard. Tampa and the Chargers came after him hard. And then you look in retrospect, you're like, that's it.

54:00 I mean, even when he retired, he was a top six quarterback. So, I don't know if there was a huge market for Darnold, which is remarkable because outside of that last game for seating against Detroit,

54:12 I mean, he was unbelievable against the Packers, 2-0 against the Bears, winning in a division, winning, he had a 106 passer rating against playoff teams

54:21 in let's go back to when Darnold was on the market briefly. I don't remember the stories. There was this surge of teams interested. Was Seattle one of the only teams truly deeply interested?

54:34 Wow. Um, the Raiders had talked about it and obviously then they then Gino becomes available through this whole song and dance, but the Raiders had talked about it and it's something that I know Tom Brady and John Spycch and Pete Carol had kicked around there. That's before Gino became available in the trade. Um, and I think in the end it was really Minnesota versus Seattle. And for for Sam, what it was sort of similar to Daniel Jones leaving Minnesota, for Sam it was, well, even if I play great Minnesota, if JJ McCarthy takes off, they invest a first round pick in him. So, I still might be a one-year guy here. I go to Seattle, I kill it, and then I could be their quarterback for the next half decade.

55:15 So, that was really what kind of pushed him to make the decision that he did. Um, it's interesting. I I think your point about like why there wasn't more of a market. I just think in the NFL old evaluations die hard, you know, and I just think, you know, like you I think for a lot of people, they have the three years with the Jets, which I think we could chalk up to circumstances now, but he was raw coming out of USC. Adam Gates wasn't the right Adam Gates was not the right coach for him because he was coming out of running a Payton Manning type of offense with Manning himself and then Jay Cutler.

55:50 Yeah. And so he went to to to to a situation where was a bad fit. Then was with, you know, and and and and and went through a coaching change very early in his career. Gay came in there in his second year and then he goes to Carolina. Circumstances aren't great there. And so like all these things happen early on and you have that evaluation from him being in that and then he has one bad game at or two bad games at the end of last year. And you know what people say? There it is. There it is. and they're not giving him the grace they would give a younger quarterback to grow through that. That's where these reclamation projects are coming from K Colin, you know, but this is a guy who had a year working under Kyle Shanahan, right? So, he has that year in the Shanahan incubator, comes out of it, goes with Kevin O'Connell, crushes it through a 14-2 start, has a rough ending, and now here we are and

56:39 he's in the Super Bowl with a third team. You know, I mean, I don't know we're giving him enough credit. Are we? It's I mean we have almost two years of evidence. This is who he is now, you know. And so I just I just think the old evaluations of him die hard. And I think you have to give Seattle a lot of credit for cutting through that and saying, let's look at what he really is now. And what he is is, I think, who a lot of people thought he was going to become when he came out of out of USC in 2018. He's in Mobile at the um I'm I'm uh impressed that you got down to Mobile considering the ice storms and the horrible weather. You're going to have a ball. It's one event in this country I've never been to and I want to go to someday. Great seeing you as always.

57:21 Albert Bell. Uh Albert Bell. Albert Brerier, Monday morning quarterback. Thanks man.

57:26 All right. Thanks, Colin. Yeah. So, the uh you know the the Bellich thing, it gets people all fired up. Jimmy Johnson, top of next hour, he is he is not happy. Um, yeah, they it's it's these Hall of Fames, they they get us all worked up. They get I mean, listen, the baseball one, I mean, it was as a sports talk radio host, that was like a sevenyear Pete Rose Hall of Fame. That was like a Barry Bonds, that was like seven years of content for me. This is only going to be like two and a half hours. But, you know, they get us worked up. To me, Hall of Fame voting should be yes or no. Pull the lever. Check the box. Bellich check.

58:07 Yeah, he's in. Oh, Kermagein Lee didn't do a ton without Tom Brady to be honest, but you know, you get that much hardware. You're in. You know, I'm in radio. Howard Stern poked a lot of people in the ribs. Took him forever to get in. That's the way Hall of Fames work. It's It's And you could say, "Well, that's petty." I mean, Bill Bill Bichc's in the petty hall of fame. Okay. Somebody a little petty back to Bill that that welcome to

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Bill Belichick Hall of Fame SNUB REACTION, Mike McCarthy, Joe Brady, Bills | Colin Cowherd: THE HERD"?

Colin Cowherd (Host), Jac (Guest), Mike McCarthy (Guest), Seth Wickersham (Guest), Albert Breer (Guest).

What is "Bill Belichick Hall of Fame SNUB REACTION, Mike McCarthy, Joe Brady, Bills | Colin Cowherd: THE HERD" about?

The reaction to Bill Belichick's exclusion from the NFL Hall of Fame in his first year of eligibility has sparked outrage, with discussions focusing on potential biases among voters and the implications of recent changes in voting rules. The commentary also highlights Belichick's coaching record in relation to Tom Brady, suggesting that his success may be significantly tied to the quarterback's…

What is mentioned in this The Herd with Colin Cowherd episode?

17 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Bill Belichick, NFL Hall of Fame, Ian Brady, NFL, Super Bowl, Jimmy Johnson. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Bill Belichick Hall of Fame SNUB REACTION, Mike McCarthy, Joe Brady, Bills | Colin Cowherd: THE HERD"?

The episode runs 59 min; the transcript is about 10,769 words in 114 timestamped sections.

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