Herd Hierarchy: Bears, Broncos, 49ers, Seahawks, Rams, Patriots, Texans, Bills | Colin Cowherd NFL

What this episode is about

The discussion focuses on the current rankings of NFL teams, highlighting the strengths and weaknesses of squads like the Bears, 49ers, and Texans. Key points include the Bears' recent clean gameplay and challenges ahead, the 49ers' resilience despite losing a star player, and an analysis of the impact of defensive performance on team success as the season progresses.

Key takeaways

• At 42, Rodgers' second-half drive peaked at a staggering 23 yards; age is catching up on that arm!
• The Texans may outscore you with D, as they did the Steelers—408 yards to 175, ouch!
• Steer clear of the Rams' giveaways—3 losses with multiple turnovers proves chaos reigns supreme!
• New England's model echoes the Brady era—don't be the best, just be hard to pick on everywhere.
• Seattle holds teams to zero 100-yard rushers in 26 games; stop the run and pass your way to victory.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Colin Cowherd (Host) · 32 min speaking
• Aaron Rodgers (Guest) · 2 min speaking
• CJ Stroud (Guest) · 2 min speaking
• Nick Wright (Guest) · 2 min speaking
• Jay Mack (Guest) · 2 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: Houston Texans, Herd Hierarchy, Aaron Rogers, Ben Johnson
2. 5:00 – 10:00: Hard Rock Bet, Playoffs, Aaron Rogers, Herd Hierarchy
3. 10:00 – 15:00: Super Bowl, NFL, Baltimore Ravens, Free Agency
4. 15:00 – 20:00: Aaron Rogers, Super Bowl, Charlie Kirk, Nico Collins
5. 20:00 – 25:00: Aaron Rogers, Ben Johnson, Super Bowl, Matt Stafford
6. 25:00 – 30:00: Atlanta Falcons, Baltimore Ravens, Caleb Williams, David Mills
7. 30:00 – 35:00: Ben Johnson, Herd Hierarchy, Playoffs, Liam Comb
8. 35:00 – 37:57: Ben Johnson

Notable quotes from "Herd Hierarchy: Bears, Broncos, 49ers, Seahawks, Rams, Patriots, Texans, Bills | Colin Cowherd NFL"

• 42year-old Aaron Rogers longest drive in the second half, 23 yards. Texans D is for real.

  about Houston Texans · at 0:20

• And the Pittsburgh Steelers are Sears department store. 3.1 yards per play. Lowest yards per play in the last nine years in the playoffs.

  about Playoffs · at 7:51

• Harbaugh and Tomlin you can argue, kind of the same resume, but it's like Baltimore is flexible, understands offense, spends on offense, drafts and develops. They're trying new stuff and new coordinators, new things.

  about Baltimore Ravens · at 11:48

• Okay, let me stop right there. It's not what the league used to be. That's right. The NFL is now smarter, shrewder, and more offensive.

  about NFL · at 13:46

• With a teammate. He was upset on the bench last night. And I said Steelers are offensive quicksand. Aaron just stepped into it. And to his credit, he elevated this team. Aaron…

  about Aaron Rogers · at 16:28

• Happy to get a side right. The Texas defense took over. I just don't know what they're going to have going into New England without Nico Collins. That concussion looked brutal. I can't imagine a scenario where he plays. The.

  about Nico Collins · at 17:32

• But the year Stafford won the Super Bowl, he led the NFL in picks. And Pton Manning for about a seven-year period as he was winning his division, led over seven years, the league in.

  about Super Bowl · at 21:56

• Divisional round, I CJ Strad, I think he's got to be behind Caleb Williams. I'm sorry. Caleb Williams had a better season than CJ Strad. And I don't know if Stout is seven or eight. I don't have a lot of confidence him in him going to New.

  about Caleb Williams · at 25:42

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Aaron Rogers — Person · Core topic (referenced player) · 5 mentions · first at 0:20
  Discussed as the 42-year-old Steelers QB whose playoff performance and future decisions symbolize Pittsburgh's offensive stagnation and uncertainty at quarterback.
• Ben Johnson — Person · Referenced coach/strategist · 6 mentions · first at 1:00
  Discussed as imprinting accountability and identity in Chicago; also referenced for rivalry comments and locker-room intensity.
  Season low in penalties and penalty yards against Green Bay. I didn't love Ben Johnson's night in ter I thought it was a little desperate in the first half. Try to get a little cute, but they played clean. They're seven-2 at home.
• Caleb Williams — Person · Referenced player (ranking comparison) · 2 mentions · first at 1:21
  Praised as 'remarkable' in Chicago’s win and later used as a comparison point to argue Stroud should be ranked behind him in the divisional round.
• Nico Collins — Person · Referenced player (injury concern) · 2 mentions · first at 3:54
  His concussion/injury is framed as a major negative for Houston’s offense heading into New England despite the win.
• Charlie Kirk — Person · Referenced player · 2 mentions · first at 4:04
  Cited as a key Texans offensive contributor and statistical standout on wild card weekend; also discussed for background (Texas A&M, Arizona, Jacksonville).
  Well, thank God for Woody Marks and Christian Kirk. Christian Kirk, did you know Christian Kirk was the leading receiver on wild card weekend? Most yards of any receiver or tight end was Christian Kirk.
• Matt Stafford — Person · Referenced player (strategic example) · 2 mentions · first at 4:32
  Used to explain how to beat the Rams (pressure/turnovers) and to argue that turnovers are part of aggressive offense—even in Super Bowl seasons.
  But the year Stafford won the Super Bowl, he led the NFL in picks. And Pton Manning for about a seven-year period as he was winning his division, led over seven years, the league in.
• Saquon Barkley — Person · Referenced player (identity anchor) · 2 mentions · first at 19:50
  Presented as the offensive identity the Eagles should build around, per Hasselbeck quote and host agreement.
  I do have a problem with identity and you know to me the identity of this team has to go through Squan. You know the last five games Saquon was pretty darn good. What the Eagles had been doing in the past was so good. and what.
• Jason Kelsey — Person · Referenced former player / commentator · 1 mention · first at 18:27
  His comments blaming Eagles players are used as a foil for the host's argument that coaching/management is responsible for offensive decline.
  Jason Kelsey is not only a proud former Philadelphia Eagle, he's probably the second or third best safe center that's ever played the game. He passionately blamed the Eagle players.
• David Mills — Person · Referenced backup QB option · 1 mention · first at 25:26
  Raised as a hypothetical alternative if Stroud struggled further; noted as having filled in midseason.
  For the field goal. Don't force that nonsense. I wondered if they would consider turning to Davis Mills, who by the way was solid midseason filling in for an injured Shout or a…
• Woody Marx — Person · Referenced player · 2 mentions · first at 3:58
  Cited as being healthy and part of the Texans offensive support group alongside Christian Kirk amid Nico Collins injury concerns.
  Well, thank God for Woody Marks and Christian Kirk. Christian Kirk, did you know Christian Kirk was the leading receiver on wild card weekend? Most yards of any receiver.
• Jared Verse — Person · Referenced player (matchup threat) · 1 mention · first at 1:36
  Mentioned as a pass-rush threat for the Rams that could exploit Chicago's injuries on the left side.
  Defensively. And it's not a great defense to start with. Without TJ Edwards and their left tackle against Jared Verse, I worry about the Bears. I have him at eight.
• Robert May — Person · Referenced upcoming guest · 1 mention · first at 0:38
  Announced as appearing later in the show, but no substantive discussion is included in the provided transcript.
  So many delicious topics. Let's not waste any time before we get to Nick, right? Robert May's on our show in an hour. Here we go with our herd hierarchy.
• Liam Comb — Person · Referenced media anecdote subject · 1 mention · first at 32:53
  Mentioned in a brief aside about a local reporter 'sucking up' in Jacksonville; not central to football analysis.
  Some local reporter sucking up to Liam Comb in Jacksonville. I don't know why that was so interesting to so many people. I've I've been in media rooms when I was younger, 20s, 30s. That.

Companies & orgs

• Houston Texans — Company · Core topic (team evaluation) · 2 mentions · first at 0:26
  Praised for elite defense and winning streak; ranked highly in Herd Hierarchy, but offensive concerns (Stroud, injuries) are highlighted.
• Baltimore Ravens — Company · Referenced team (model organization) · 2 mentions · first at 12:05
  Used as a contrast to Steelers: flexible, offense-aware, tries new coordinators; also described as 'best job' opening hypothetically.
• Atlanta Falcons — Company · Referenced team (coaching opening) · 1 mention · first at 29:06
  Mentioned as the only team to officially interview Harbaugh and debated as a potential landing spot versus the Giants.
  The only team that has officially interviewed him is the Falcons. I don't know that's a great fit. Harwell is obviously a really good coach. He's expected to meet with other teams later.
• Denver Broncos — Company · Ranked team · 1 mention · first at 2:21
  Ranked #6 with notes on home performance, sacks, and offensive limitations; used to discuss whether resting was beneficial.
  They do lead the NFL in sacks and allow the fewest sacks. So, I like the roster construct, but they've been held to 20 or fewer points in five of the last nine games. And I…

Concepts & topics

• Herd Hierarchy — Concept · Core segment / concept · 4 mentions · first at 0:16
  The episode’s main structured segment: ranking top NFL teams and later teasing a final ranking of the remaining playoff teams.
  Herd hierarchy TIME IS NOW. LET'S GO.
• NFL — Concept · Core topic (league context) · 1 mention · first at 13:51
  Referenced to contrast modern league trends (offense, aggressive GMs) with the Steelers' older approach and to frame playoff success patterns.
• Free Agency — Concept · Referenced team-building mechanism · 1 mention · first at 10:56
  Mentioned as one of the avenues Pittsburgh should use to find its next star quarterback as part of a more aggressive offensive pivot.
  It's time to today work on getting your next star quarterback, free agency, college, whatever you got to do. But I just I feel like I mean I suggested remember this couple years ago. Oh, out.

Places & events

• Playoffs — Event · Core topic (competitive frame) · 4 mentions · first at 3:24
  Serves as the proving ground where 'truth reveals itself'—used to judge teams like Steelers, Texans, and QB performance under pressure.
• Super Bowl — Event · Benchmark event · 5 mentions · first at 13:03
  Used as the standard for roster-building success (top-10 offenses) and to argue Steelers are not a viable Super Bowl organization.

Sponsors

• Hard Rock Bet — Company · Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at 6:13
  Presented as the show's presenting sponsor with a promotional offer tied to Miami and betting on the national championship and playoffs.
  Today's show brought to you by presenting sponsor Hard Rock Bet. Now with Miami making the national championship, you know Hard Rock Stadium is going to be absolutely fire. If.
• Hard Rock Stadium — Place · Referenced venue (sponsor tie-in) · 1 mention · first at 6:16
  Mentioned in the Hard Rock Bet promotion as the venue expected to be 'fire' for the national championship game.
  Presenting sponsor Hard Rock Bet. Now with Miami making the national championship, you know Hard Rock Stadium is going to be absolutely fire. If you're going to the game, Hard…

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Welcome to the Herds official YouTube channel. Make sure to like and subscribe. Don't forget to check out the Colin Coward podcast, all of our NFL instant reactions, and more football content. Here we go. It's hour two. We're live in Chicago. It's the herd final herd hierarchy for a while. 42year-old Aaron Rogers longest drive in the second half, 23 yards. Texans D is for real. Well um so many delicious topics. Let's not waste any time before we get to Nick, right? Robert May's on our show in an hour. Here we go with our herd hierarchy.

0:46 Herd hierarchy TIME IS NOW. LET'S GO. THE TOP 10 NFL teams according to college. Number eight.

0:53 Listen, I'm going to put Chicago there. season low in penalties and penalty yards against Green Bay. I didn't love Ben Johnson's night in ter I thought it was a little desperate in the first half. Try to get a little cute, but they played clean. They're seven-2 at home this year. Nine-2 against teams outside of their division. They're a great fourth quarter team. First win without a without a takeaway. So, there's a lot to take from it. They played a clean game. Caleb was remarkable, but losing their starting left tackle and linebacker TJ Edwards is going to hurt against the Rams. They are not nearly as athletic defensively. And it's not a great defense to start with. Without TJ Edwards and their left tackle against Jared Verse, I worry about the Bears. I have him at eight.

1:43 Number seven, San Francisco. Again, now you can prepare for the NerS without George KD. You're not losing him in game. Um, Brock Pury as a pick in four straight games. I don't really care. What I care is if you look at Brock Pur's had four game-winning drives in six playoff games. That's what matters to me. Um, they've won 11 straight playoff games in the wild card or divisional round and that's, you know, a lot of that's Kyle Shanahan, but I think going into a game without KD, very rested Seattle team, that is a lot to ask. I have them at seven.

2:21 Number six, Denver. Listen, they're very very good at home and 11 and two and one score games, but there's there's no more Raiders. You know, there's no more lightweight offenses like like the Chargers. And they do lead the NFL in sacks and allow the fewest sacks. So, I like the roster construct, but they've been held to 20 or fewer points in five of the last nine games. And I said this, I'm not so sure taking the week off was good for the young Seahawks or the inconsistent Broncos. I have them at six.

2:59 Number five, Buffalo. I think Buffalo's probably going to beat him. And I didn't think that a couple of weeks ago, but it was the first road win under McDermott. They've won six of seven games. And Josh Allen, listen to this. In his last seven playoff games, Josh Allen 19 total touchdowns, one pick. He has a way of getting rid of the mistakes. They've got their tush push figured out, which they didn't last year in the playoffs. And I mean, I don't I think their offensive personnel is better than I give it credit for. Left tackle, quarterback, running back, couple of tight ends I like, good slot receiver. I have them at five.

3:38 Number four. But neutral field, I'd take the Texans. They've won 10 straight. Their defense last night outscored the Steelers offense. Um I mean Pittsburgh was playing well and then all of a sudden they saw Houston and they weren't. They outgainain the Steelers 408 to 175. Nico Collins injury is not good. Not good at all. But you know what? Woody Marx is healthy. Christian Kirk, CJ Strad, I got Houston at four. Number three,

4:12 the Rams. I mean, they're beatable because I don't like their special teams and they had nine penalties against the Panthers. They just couldn't lock in. And they're four and three over their last seven games. The key to beating the Rams is forcing turnovers. So, they're 0 and3 in games with multiple giveaways this year. That's the way to beat them. Get pressure on Matt Stafford. Dial up a reckless play. They don't fumble a ton. That's the way to beat the Rams because when they play clean and they are healthier than the Bears, they're 13- two, Rams at three.

4:46 Number two, I like New England. I I you know, everybody says, well, I mean, they're two-2 against teams, you know, w with winning records. Yeah, they lost to Buffalo and they also beat Buffalo. Um, I don't think in a weird way it reminds me a little of the Brady Bellich Patriots. I don't know what their hole is, but they're not great everywhere. I never thought Brady had the best receiving core. For a brief time, he had the best tight end core. I never thought the the Bellich Patriots had the best pass rush or the best linebacking crew, but they spread the money around and there was nowhere they were weak. And that's how I look at the Patriots. Now that Will Campbell is back at left tackle, two running backs I like, there there's nothing to pick on with New England. I have him at two.

5:37 Number one and I have Seattle at one. Rest advantage over the ners. Eight wins by 10 plus points coming off a buy. They have not allowed a 100redyard rusher in 26 straight games. You have to throw the ball to beat Seattle. And Brock Pury when he's got to throw the ball 40 times and Seattle will get a pass rush and there's no KD underneath to throw it to. Now that's when you can get Brock Pery in trouble. That is my herd hierarchy. Today's show brought to you by presenting sponsor Hard Rock Bet. Now with Miami making the national championship, you know Hard Rock Stadium is going to be absolutely fire. If you're going to the game, Hard Rock Bet is giving you a $10 bonus bet to get in on the action. You can turn that free $10 bonus bet into a big win placing a same game parlay. Or even if you're just watching the game at home, there's still no better place to bet than that than Hard Rock Bet because it's Florida

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7:21 Here we go. It is a Tuesday. We are live. We're in Chicago. It's the herd. Wherever you may be, however you may be watching or listening, thanks for making us part of your day. The truth once the playoffs arrive always reveals itself. You can't trust the Jacksonville Jaguars and the Pittsburgh Steelers are Sears department store. 3.1 yards per play. Lowest yards per play in the last nine years in the playoffs. And they got turnovers. They three times Houston gave them opportunities. 13 total first downs. Awful on third down. Couldn't run the ball again. If the Steelers were just competent offensively, and I know the Texans are good, but you had a ball game, Pittsburgh's longest drive in the second half, 23 yards. So, they're not going to fire Mike Tomlin. Aaron's, of course, going to always defend him. They have no young quarterback for the future. It's one of the oldest rosters in the league.

8:39 The money's mostly spent on defense. Pittsburgh is stuck in a mediocrity loop and and they're never terrible but exceedingly average. And they've been become so consumed with stability, loyalty. Hey, at least we're not Cleveland. Yeah, but either are the Chiefs, the Rams, or the Niners, and they take swings. I mean, a prime example of the Steelers, they go get DK Metaf, and yet the Steelers are last in the NFL with Aaron Rogers in air yards per attempt. So, they buy a sports car and don't know how to drive it. And it's not just about not winning a playoff game for nine years. I went and looked at Mike Tomlin's last 13 playoff games. There's six blowout losses. In fact, in their last seven playoff games, they have not led for a single snap in the second half in any of them. The games aren't that competitive. You thought last night was competitive.

9:37 Start of the fourth, you knew who the better team was. So, there's a there's an old saying about, you know, you can't save your way to being wealthy, just being content. And that's how I feel about the Steelers. You know, they they're they're they want to be they're content, which to me just feels like a weighted blanket. I I I I just don't get it. They're You got to take swings, increase risk. We're going into another season. Aaron will take off. They won't have any urgency at quarterback. And it's actually the easy way out in life to not offend anybody and be loyal to all your employees. That is the easy way out in life. It's hard to fire people.

10:20 And I'm not insisting that you should fire Tom. It's not what I'm saying. He get a TV job or another job in one second. He's more than competent. Stop spending money on defense. Okay. Last night, it's like I know in Pittsburgh and I get it. It's an old school proud town that putting fries on a sandwich is cool. But the rest of the country took the fries, moved them on a plate, put parmesan cheese and truffle salt on them. That's what the rest of us do. It's time to spend money on offense. It's time to today work on getting your next star quarterback, free agency, college, whatever you got to do. But I I just I feel like I mean I suggested remember this couple years ago. Oh, out.

11:07 I was mocked when I suggested TJ Watt still in his prime before the injuries mount. Move him for two first round picks. Pittsburgh's like, "Nah, we're going to make him the highest paid non-quarterback in the league." Few more injuries. TJ Watt now 0 and5 in playoff games. You're grabbing on to the wrong stuff. Spending way too much money on defense. every I mean again you can be loyal to your best employees, right? I'm I'm not asking for anybody to be fired here. It's not my thing. I was surprised that John Harbaugh was Harbaugh and Tomlin you can argue, you know, kind of the same resume, but it's like Baltimore is flexible, understands offense, spends on offense, drafts and develops. They're trying new stuff and new coordinators, new things.

12:05 I never feel like Baltimore's outdated. They just couldn't beat Momes or Josh Allen. So, um, Aaron Rodgers after the game asked about his future as a Steeler.

12:19 I'm not going to make any emotional decisions. Disappointed. You know, obviously such a fun year.

12:27 Play again. Do you want it to be here? I'm not going to talk about that. Aaron, how do you approach just what you decide to do next?

12:36 Yeah, just get away and then then have have the right conversations. Okay, so Aaron's going to disappear for a while. He did that in his prime. He's certainly going to do it now. It's his life. Hall of Famer, first ballot, smart guy. He's got a big broad life. He's going to disappear. And Mike Tomlin's not getting fired. and they're going to downplay. They've got any concern about quarterback issues, but they will continue to be a team that is not a viable Super Bowl organization. They won't be. Now, now Aaron, and I guess to his credit, he was pretty feisty on the bench last night. He was obviously not happy. Uh he defended Mike Tomlin after I want you to listen to this.

13:21 Mike Te has had more success than damn near anybody in the league. uh you know from for the last 19 20 years and more than that though when you have the right guy uh and the culture is right uh you don't think about making a change. Um but there's a lot of pressure that comes from the outside and obviously that sways decisions from time to time but it's not how I would do things and not how the league used to be.

13:46 Okay, let me stop right there. It's not what the league used to be. That's right. The NFL is now smarter, shrewder, and more offensive. The league isn't what it used to be, but the Steelers are. They spend all their money on defense. So, so you know what the league is now? It's not what it was when Tomlin took over the Steelers, where just a good defense in a run game got you to a Super Bowl and won it. Now, it's about offensive coaches. It's about quarterbacks and passing games. It's about spending your money at left tackle, quarterback, two weapons, maybe even a center, not on a second pass rusher. So that mindset that Aaron just voiced is precisely why the Steelers feel outdated. The last nine Super Bowl champs, nine for nine, have top 10 offenses. The Steelers, once again this year, 26th on offense.

14:43 For a city that worships bridges, Pittsburgh needs to cross one. It's It's time to change the way you're doing business. Sears, J C Penney, we're cool. Now we all shop online. Like like you got to stop the money on the other side. So the NFL is richer. General managers are younger and very aggressive. Howie Roseman less need. Go look around now. that the the best GMs are young and they're taking big risks and they're very busy at the trade deadline. I mean, I'll give you credit for DK Metaf, but at the same time, George Pickkins left and I'm not sure who's really better this year. It was it was Pickkins. So, and I and I don't buy into, well, the league was better years ago. No, it wasn't. It's safer now. It's smarter now.

15:38 Um, the GMs are less risk averse. So, you know, I'm just I'm I'm looking at Aaron Rogers against playoff teams this season. And I thought Aaron played very very well. I defended Aaron. Everybody is my witness the entire year. But judge a team not how you were against the Bengals without Joe Burrow or the cruddy Browns. And the AFC this year was weaker. This year, even Aaron Rogers against playoff teams had a passer rating of 70, was one in five. That's with Aaron, who I thought played really well most of the year. I really did. I based on what I saw his last year in Green Bay with the Jets. I thought Aaron played very well except against the good teams. And you could watch Aaron's body language on the first drive last night. He got upset with a teammate. He was upset on the bench last night. And I said Steelers are offensive quicksand. Aaron just stepped into it. And to his credit, he elevated this team. Aaron deserves a lot

16:39 of credit. For 42 years old, I thought he played really well. They don't have a number two receiver. DK Metaf got himself in trouble. Had to miss two big games. Run game. I like Jaylen Warren. The O line was better than I thought. Some of that goes to credit Arthur Smith and Aaron Rogers. But the last nine Super Bowl champs, nine for9 top 10 offenses. The world has pivoted. It's pivoted and and that that city that worships bridges, they are just struggling to cross it to the other side. All right, Jac, congratulations. You hit your first bet of the weekend, I know you were freaking out last night. It, you know, it's funny. I the whole the whole second half I'm like, the Texans are the better team. The Texans are going to win this game. But Pittsburgh did this all year long. They just sort of hung around in games where they couldn't generate much offense. So, it it was at least, you know, fourth quarter was entertaining

17:32 for a while. Happy to get a side right. The Texas defense took over. I just don't know what they're going to have going into New England without Nico Collins. That concussion looked brutal. I I can't imagine a scenario where he plays. The defense is awesome, but Colin, that offense, what has happened to CJ Stout? I mean, he that guy has regressed since his rookie year. I'm not seeing it. Well, um, thank God for Woody Marks and Christian Kirk. Uh,

17:57 Christian Kirk, did you know Christian Kirk was the leading receiver on wild card weekend? Most yards of any receiver or tight end was Christian Kirk.

18:05 He was a Texas&M kid and then I think he went to like an Arizona, bounced around. He actually works in Houston. Yeah. Yeah. No, Jack, that's right. Jacksonville. He works in Houston. He had a great night for him.

18:15 Yeah. So, some thoughts about Philadelphia. A former eagle, a former eagle is defending the wrong people. We'll talk about that next. Jason Kelsey is not only a proud former Philadelphia Eagle, he's probably the second or third best safe uh center that's ever played the game. He passionately blamed the Eagle players for their loss. He said, "We just we just didn't make our guys highest paid, lot of money on offense. We didn't make plays." I disagree. When a department in your company is in a death spiral, it's on management.

18:58 Okay. And the Eagles offense has been circling the drain for nine months. That that's on that's on the offensive coordinator or the head coach. Okay. The players, these same expensive guys last year were crushing it because they had Kell Moore who went to the Saints and the Saints offense this year with Tyler Shuck was better than this offense in Philadelphia. Managers and department heads and that's what an OC is. They control things like game plans, game design in your job or mine, talent acquisition. This is not I mean my take on Philadelphia all year is what is the offense. I don't know half to half Hasselbeck. Matt Hasselbeck talked about this yesterday.

19:48 I do have a problem with identity and you know to me the identity of this team has to go through Squan. You know the last five games Saquon was pretty darn good. What the Eagles had been doing in the past was so so good. and what they've been doing, I would say for the last like year and a half, it just feels like they're trying to be something that they're not. And so, you know, whatever they want to be, like they go be that. But to me, Saquon's got to be a part of it. And that physicality up front, that needs to be a part of it as well. Um, and ju just take Ben Johnson, what he did week one with the Bears when he got the job, created accountability, was tough on his quarterback, publicly, privately, accountability to everybody, cleaned up the negative plays, uh, went sat down with Ryan Polls and said, "I'll take the job if you fix the interior of the O line." I mean, it a real imprint,

20:44 a plan of attack. I I I don't know what Philly is. I know Nick Serioni is very dependent on the skill of the OC. There's a picture, I think it was from like HBO or something. There was a picture in a meeting of the Philadelphia Eagles this year. And sorry for the radio audience, but it talks exclusively about negative plays or turnovers. Can't turn the ball over. Don't turn the ball over. We win if we don't turn the ball over. Yeah, that can't be that can't be front and center. You know who turns the ball over? all the time. The NerS, the team that just ended your season with with 60% of their money banged up all year. You know who else turns the ball over a lot? The Seahawks, number two in the league, a number one seed who didn't have to play last weekend. You know who else turns it over? Last seven games, seven picks. Matt Stafford, Rams are favored on the road against Chicago.

21:41 Offense is about creativity, ingenuity, and risk. You can't you can't be paralyzed by can't turn it over. Well, you don't want to turn it over. You don't want to turn it over, especially in the red zone. But the the year Stafford won the Super Bowl, he led the NFL in picks. And Pton Manning for about a seven-year period as he was winning his division, led over seven years, the league in picks, and Favre had a lot of picks, and Elway had a lot of picks. And it's okay. It's it's it can't be front and center. So I I just I always say this. What are you? You can see it on TV how well the Indiana Hoosiers are coached. You can see it. I can see it. I watch Philadelphia. When I'm asking I'm not sure what they are with all that talent.

22:30 That's not Don't blame the employees. That's on management. A head coach is basically your CEO. The coordinators are department heads. Vic Fangio. That department's humming right down the hallway. Kevin the OC, his isn't. I I'm not blaming the players for that cuz all those guys were great last year with Kell Moore. Jay Mack with the news.

22:56 NO, NO, NO. TURN ON THE NEWS. THIS is the Herdline news. Not good in Philly. Uh, also not good in Houston despite the win last night, Colin. I mean, CJ Strad was a complete disaster. He fumbled five times. Now, he only lost two of them, but it's like he couldn't control the snap. I I've never seen anything like it before. CJ talked about it after the game.

23:20 We had some problems with the snaps. Um me catching them, you know, got to find a way just to catch him and then take care of the ball. Um you know, we knew on tape that they did a good job of, you know, punching at the ball or trying to, you know, um get you to while you're throwing. It's all about, you know, moving forward and, you know, trying your best to, you know, flush it and keep going. So, you know, um I thought, you know, when every time we had to bounce back, you know, we made more plays. So, you know, I'm proud of our guys for having a little bit of resilience in those moments. And, you know, to finish a game like that was really dope.

23:50 Now, let me defend him here. Pittsburgh knew. There's two moments that you really knew. Pittsburgh knew they were not going to have drives in this game. The first reason I can tell that is to statistically nobody moves the ball down the field consistently against the Texans. And the Steelers knew it. If you looked at Aaron Rogers, how animated he got on that first series. They had a couple of nice plays. Yeah. And then they failed to get a first. That Aaron was animated. Aaron's like, "Okay, we're giving you our best stuff. This is one of the drives we had to score on." The second thing is Mike Tomlin preached all week, we need turnovers. We've got to have a short field. So, you could tell Pittsburgh, the messaging in that building all week was we got to punch the ball out. We have got to create. I mean that you could tell and I could tell from Aaron's body language first drive is they knew they weren't going to

24:39 move the ball much. They knew it. That's why Aaron got so animated after drive number one that were two or the three plays that probably Arthur Smith and Aaron knew would work and they did. So I'm going to defend him is I I still really am a fan. Like I defend Justin Herbert and CJ Stride. That was a really bad throw right there.

24:58 Really bad though. Yeah, that was a really bad throw. By the way, Stafford had one last weekend.

25:04 Uh Brock Pury had two picks. One was atrocious this weekend. It happens. The game is fast.

25:10 All right. Well, I mean, fine. I I'll give you some of the excuses, though. The fumbles, Colin. I mean, I I honestly when it was 76 after he throws the red zone pick, it's third down, too. It's like, dude, settle for the field goal. Don't force that nonsense. Um, I wondered if they would consider turning to Davis Mills, who by the way was solid midseason filling in for an injured Shout or a concussed Shroud. Um, now they have to play at New England. Colin, I'm just going to ask you this. You know, I like ranking stuff, right? It's fun. My family jokes to me about I like ranking stuff. If I'm ranking the quarterbacks in the divisional round, I CJ Strad, I think he's got to be behind Caleb Williams. I'm sorry. Caleb Williams had a better season than CJ Strad. And I don't know if Stout is seven or eight. I don't have a lot of confidence him in in him going to New England, but I do like their defense.

26:00 Oh, it's there's nothing not to like. It's better than the Chargers defense. And Drake May like couldn't move the ball. Sacked five times like

26:08 Yeah. Yeah. The o the under I mean the over 41. I saw the number 41. Uh take the under. I I think it's going to be super low scoring.

26:16 Yeah. Um, let's move on to Justin Herbert and those LA Chargers still licking their wounds after that embarrassing beatd down at the hands of the Patriots. Herbert's catching flack on the interwebs from the keyboard jockeys who are coming after him. Well, uh, defensive end Khalil Mack says everyone is to blame, not just Justin Herbert.

26:37 He wants to win. He wants to be great for us and this organization and, um, we all want to be great for him. And, um, he's not in it alone. He's not in by himself.

26:48 Yeah, it it's CJ Strad and Herbert. You know, I like both. They didn't have good days. I'm I'm I'm not selling my stock. I think they're still very good, big, accurate, strong guys that sometimes get into a bad turnover space, but at least I'm consistent. I defend Darnold. I this weekend I defended Brock Pury, who had two bad picks. I I would much rather have my quarterback try to extend plays. And I mean, that's when Herbert gets in trouble and CJ Strad, they're trying to extend plays. They got guys hanging off them. And I, you know,

27:21 look at the offensive lineman in that video. They're they're just they're standing there playing patty cake as Justin Herbert's getting destroyed. I mean, Colin, it was it was sad to watch. I'll say Herbert had a rough game. It happens. He wasn't great um losing Hampton or maybe maybe they didn't think Hampton was going to play much. They had no run game. Um, no wide receiver separating. I don't know. I mean, you talk mock draft. I know the Chargers need O line, but Colin, they need a stud receiver. They I mean, if they can somehow get Carnell Tate, I can't imagine he'll be there. Or the kid Tyson, they just need a game breaker.

27:55 Yeah. Well, that I think more than that. I think they have Trey Harris and Quinton Johnson and Laden McConi and Marian Hampton. I think

28:02 What happened to them against the Pat? Where were they against the Patriots? Again, guard center guard. They need protection. It all starts with Herbert having more than 1.6 seconds of a clean pocket.

28:14 All right, final story is The Athletic is reporting that John Harbaugh had lunch at an informal meeting at Giants owner Chris Mara's home about the open head coaching position. Uh Harbaugh is reportedly the Giants number one target. Uh the only team that has officially interviewed him is the Falcons. I don't know that that's a great fit. Uh Harwell is obviously a really good coach. He's expected to meet with other teams later this week. Uh Fox's own Jay Glazer's all over this stuff. Um I I think that I think it's going to be the Giants. I'm not totally buying the Dolphins. Colin, what do you make of this? Um you know, Harbaugh, he's the bell of the ball.

28:53 Everybody wants him. Well, I I think if I was the Giants, I'd be incredibly excited. If I was Harbaugh, I wish there was a better opening than the Giants.

29:03 Well, is there is there a better one? Atlanta's interesting, but not ideal. There is no great opening this year. Well, there is. Baltimore. Baltimore is your great opening.

29:12 Stop. Why? Why is Atlanta not ideal? Who's your quarterback? Michael Pennock. Is he proven?

29:20 I mean, he's good. What? No, not not as a pro quarterback yet. No, he's not. He's a good prospect. Can I amend

29:27 that? That that's not why John Harbaugh got into this league to deal with prospects, right? Like he he had Flaco, then he had Lamar. Pennix does not match up to those two. So there's Atlanta's got stable ownership and some really nice pieces. The Giants are in this cycle. Ravens is the best job and there's an argument now that Shawn McDermott won. The second best job is the Giants. Jackson Dart appears to be to me a solid franchise quarterback. Scataboo is a number one back left tackle. They got to get a right tackle.

29:58 They have got to draft their draft pick. Get a right tackle. and keep Jackson Dart out of the blue tent. And the other thing is the Giants, Adnauseium, I've discussed this, the Giants need a culture changer, not just a play caller. I could argue the Ravens need a play caller, Kevin Stfansky. They need somebody to get right with Lamar, right? He keeps receipts. Get right with Lamar. Get on Lamar's side. The Giants, it's not about play calling. You can go hire one of those guys. They need a guy to change the awful 10-year abyss known as their culture. And I think Harbaugh's absolutely as good as the Giants can do.

30:34 So what if I let's compare Atlanta and the Giants real quick. So Drake London is better than neighbors. We know that Drake London

30:40 start with a quarterback. Oh, okay fine. We'll give Jackson Dart the edge. We'll give you that line a wash. I I don't know that there's a major advantage for the Giants. It wasn't great. Bean Robinson is arguably the best running back in the league. Cam Scatteroo is nice. Bean is a superstar. Maybe a franchise tag pits. Now you've got an offense.

30:58 You you you see the world differently than me. I think about my boss. Falcons better owner. Period. I got a better owner in Arthur Blank. I play indoors. All right. So, I can control the environment a little more. I play in a weaker division in Atlanta. That's great. But in the end, I get Jackson Dart. I mean, I Jackson Dart is a starting quarterback. Atlanta's got the owner. Atlanta's got the easier division. I'm I'm not denying that. And Bejian's great, but I get Jackson Dart. I have plenty of offensive components.

31:31 And by the way, I don't think the division outside of Philadelphia, if Nick Serriani retains his job, Cowboys, Washington, Adam Peters is rubbing people the wrong way. But to me, I want weapons and a quarterback and edge rushers. The Giants have an elite edge rusher. Quarterback, running back, left tackle, weapon. That that that's about as good as it's going to get. Now, I I do think Arthur Blank is the Atlanta edge

32:00 and they I think the they'll probably let Harbaugh pick his GM, right? Cuz they they got rid of their old GM. So, the Giants have Joe Shane still in place. I mean, I owner

32:09 But you're talking you're bouncing around to a lot of places. The owner for Atlanta is in play. That matters.

32:16 Yeah. But I mean, last year Michael Pennock, first of all, he's 26 coming off another injury.

32:22 That's a concern. That a concern. I mean, one guy's going into the blue tent, Jackson Dart. He's coming out of the blue tent ready to play. The other guy's just not available.

32:31 Yeah. All right, Jay Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by.

32:37 The herd lie news. Really, our last herd hierarchy uh for a long time is coming up at the top of the hour. Eight teams left. We'll rank them one through eight. So, a lot was made this weekend of two things. some local reporter sucking up to Liam Comb in Jacksonville. I don't know why that was so interesting to so many people. I've I've been in media rooms when I was younger, 20s, 30s. That happens. You know, it's not that crazy and nobody really cares outside of the media. The second thing is the fbombs. Ben Johnson was screaming in the locker room after the Bears beat the Packers.

33:16 And uh I got to be honest with you, I don't care. like Michigan, Ohio State hate each other. That's why I love watching it. Angel Reese, Caitlyn Clark, we finally watch the WNBA. I'm all for this stuff. Conflict and tension and animosity is what every Hollywood screenwriter is trying to figure out. I'm okay with it. Ben Johnson is doing something. And what he's doing is building a fence. That fence is us against Green Bay. We're smarter than Green Bay. We're tougher than Green Bay. We're better in the fourth quarter than Green Bay. We're more resilient than Green Bay. And you know what? In one year, they were. They were smarter. They were more resilient.

34:01 They were better in the fourth quarter. Yes, it's a little petty. Whateabe? Bellichc still petty. Okay. Like, so to me, you know, the reality is most successful people, I'm talking professionally, most successful people I've met in my life, I mean, honestly, they're a little petty and they're ridiculously competitive. I mean, that that's just the way it is. A lot of co Jim Harbaugh, remember the hard slap to Jim Schwarz's back? remember Pete Carol when he was at USC and Harbaugh was at Stanford and and Harbaugh, you know, I don't know what happened the interaction during the game, but Pete Carol came up at the end of the game and go, "Hey, what's your deal?" And Harbaugh was like, "Hey, just competing, right, Pete? Just competing.

34:50 You can't worry about it." I mean, to me, what Ben Johnson tried to do is build a and if if it takes a little hate, I'm okay with it. build a fence around the Bears. We're going to be tougher. We're going to be better in the fourth quarter. We're going to be more resilient. We're going to fight harder. And that's exactly what I saw. That's exactly what I saw in the Green Bay game. So, if it takes a little hate to get there, whatever. Whatever it takes to galvanize. I always said it's really, it really does matter what your head coach is. Like, I I think Mike McDaniel's really smart.

35:30 Mike Vrabel, Mike Tomlin, the Harbos. Those are alphas. That is a locker room of 55 dudes that that scored the touchdown, got the girl, people pick up their check, they're they're they're tough guys. NFL locker room. And if if the coach is taking his shirt off and dropping some fbombs, we in the media, get over it. I I got to get over it. They're doing this. I mean, all these movies, it always cracks me up. Most of us would not, you know, Michael Jordan's the best basketball player of all time, but Michael Jordan did not treat his teammates well, but we we glamorize the athlete who punches a teammate. Like, we glamorize Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan's not suing NASCAR. Michael Jordan's tough.

36:20 Teammates didn't like Michael Jordan. That's what created his competitive fire. To this day, Michael's still competitive on a golf course. the late Kobe Bryant, same thing. Why can't coaches be like, again, Danny Parkkins joked about it yesterday, less hate in the world, more hate in sports. Like, this is what this is what motivates a lot of guys. I can't speak for women. It's what motivates a lot of professional men. It could be Silicon Valley, Wall Street, NFL locker rooms. Um, and here's Ben Johnson this week on having no love for Green Bay.

36:52 There's a rivalry that exists between these two teams. um something that that I fully recognize and I'm a part of and uh yeah, I mean there's I I I just I don't like that team. So um George and I have talked and and we're on the same page.

37:10 I'm okay with it. I really am. I mean it's it's heard hierarchy the last one top of the hour. So, I looked at the eight playoff teams left and seven of eight, and maybe it's eight of eight, but I think seven of eight have something in common. And it's not a great quarterback. And I hope all those teams out there that currently stink are watching what seven of eight and maybe eight of eight have. Again, it's not the quarterback that's next. in Chicago. It's the herd.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Herd Hierarchy: Bears, Broncos, 49ers, Seahawks, Rams, Patriots, Texans, Bills | Colin Cowherd NFL"?

Colin Cowherd (Host), Aaron Rodgers (Guest), CJ Stroud (Guest), Nick Wright (Guest), Jay Mack (Guest).

What is "Herd Hierarchy: Bears, Broncos, 49ers, Seahawks, Rams, Patriots, Texans, Bills | Colin Cowherd NFL" about?

The discussion focuses on the current rankings of NFL teams, highlighting the strengths and weaknesses of squads like the Bears, 49ers, and Texans. Key points include the Bears' recent clean gameplay and challenges ahead, the 49ers' resilience despite losing a star player, and an analysis of the impact of defensive performance on team success as the season progresses.

What is mentioned in this The Herd with Colin Cowherd episode?

24 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Aaron Rogers, Houston Texans, Herd Hierarchy, Ben Johnson, Playoffs, NFL. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Herd Hierarchy: Bears, Broncos, 49ers, Seahawks, Rams, Patriots, Texans, Bills | Colin Cowherd NFL"?

The episode runs 38 min; the transcript is about 6,601 words in 73 timestamped sections.

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