Herd Hierarchy: Seahawks, Chiefs, Bills, Bears, Patriots, Rams, Broncos | Colin Cowherd NFL

What this episode is about

The discussion focuses on the key factors influencing NFL team improvement after a season, emphasizing the critical role of coaching over player acquisitions through free agency and the draft. It highlights examples of successful coaching hires, underscoring that while talent is important, effective coaches significantly shape team performance and roster decisions.

Key takeaways

• The NFL season's end reveals a stark truth: coaching drives 70% of a team's success.
• Free agency and drafts are mere spices; coaching is the main course in NFL team improvement.
• New England's fortunes hinge more on coaching than cap space; money can't buy you wins without the right guidance.
• Seattle’s draft success proves you can't rely solely on rookies; impactful coaching is key to unlocking talent.
• The Lions and Jaguars show: solid coaching can transform underperforming teams into playoff contenders in a year.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Colin Cowherd (Host) · 38 min speaking
• Greg Cosell (Guest) · 16 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: Super Bowl, Liam Cohen, NFL, Drake May
2. 5:00 – 10:00: Sam Darnold, Drake May, Super Bowl, Greg Kosell
3. 10:00 – 15:00: Drake May, Devin Witherspoon, Sam Darnold, Super Bowl
4. 15:00 – 20:00: Ian Brady, Sam Darnold, Super Bowl, Seattle Seahawks
5. 20:00 – 25:00: Ian Brady, Sam Darnold, Ben Johnson, Greg Kosell
6. 25:00 – 30:00: Kansas City Chiefs, Super Bowl, Ben Johnson, Jim Harbaugh
7. 30:00 – 35:00: Sam Darnold
8. 35:00 – 40:00: Jim Harbaugh, Drake May, Sam Darnold, Super Bowl
9. 40:00 – 45:00: Caleb Williams, Drake May, Albert Breer, Super Bowl
10. 45:00 – 50:00: Ian Brady, Jackson Smith and Jigba, Super Bowl, Buffalo Bills
11. 50:00 – 54:27: Matthew Stafford, Drake May, Sam Darnold, Super Bowl

Notable quotes from "Herd Hierarchy: Seahawks, Chiefs, Bills, Bears, Patriots, Rams, Broncos | Colin Cowherd NFL"

• Or five minutes. So, I was thinking about this. I know it's really early, but the NFL season is over. And once an NFL season ends, there are three ways to improve your team.…

  about NFL · at 0:23

• So, it's not the draft. Seattle's the draft. They had two guys, a guard and a safety out of the draft class that had an impact. Two of 22 starters. And that's not counting special teams. And.

  about Seattle Seahawks · at 1:40

• Outside of guard needs an overhaul. three straight playoff games with eight plus points. At one point in the Super Bowl, eight drives, eight punts, and seven completions. They…

  about Super Bowl · at 2:53

• Yeah. Drake May set an NFL Super Bowl record for passing yards in a quarter.

  about Drake May · at 9:44

• Coaches very quickly that's not going to work. I'm not rooting against him. It's just not going to work. Joe Brady may work, but when you look at the coaches he's going to face…

  about Ian Brady · at 21:49

• Minutes, you've heard of Stephen Spielberg's DreamWorks Studios. Well, I have spent over the last 48 hours. I have a new business venture. It's called Darnold Works Studios.

  about Sam Darnold · at 22:55

• Colin, we just saw this play out in Detroit last year with Ben Johnson. They went to a guy in house. All reports right now indicate Seattle is going to stay in house for this OC job and it's.

  about Ben Johnson · at 23:55

• There's just no other way to put it. I said it last week. Can't be president until you're 35. Stafford's life experience, quarterback experience, snaps in the facility, all the film he's watched, all his starts, and Drake May.

  about Matthew Stafford · at 53:46

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Sam Darnold — Person · Referenced quarterback (major segment subject) · 13 mentions · first at 5:42
  Central to the Super Bowl/Seahawks discussion—framed as playing efficient ‘game commander’ football and as a case study in QB development over time.
• Drake May — Person · Referenced quarterback (discussion focal point) · 11 mentions · first at 1:35
  Used as the main example of how coaching, protection, and defensive looks can overwhelm a young QB; contrasted with veterans like Stafford and with Darnold’s development.
• Greg Kosell — Person · Main guest / referenced expert (film analyst) · 4 mentions · first at 0:20
  Provides tape-based breakdowns of Darnold’s performance, Seattle’s pressure/coverage structures, and Kenneth Walker’s run style versus a Vrabel/Patriots defense.
  The Herd. Wherever you may be, however you may be listening or watching, thanks for making us part of your day. Greg Kosell is going to show up in about four or five minutes.…
• Ian Brady — Person · Referenced coach (high scrutiny hire) · 14 mentions · first at 2:27
  Discussed as a risky/uncertain coaching hire given Buffalo’s brutal schedule and roster questions; used to illustrate how coaching matchups can swing outcomes.
• Mike Vrabel — Person · Referenced coach (defensive standard / coaching impact example) · 3 mentions · first at 0:45
  Used as a benchmark for defensive coaching and edge-setting principles; also part of the broader argument that coaching is the primary lever for team improvement.
  And I think Ben Johnson and Mike Vrabel are proof. the coaching's about 70%.
• Jim Harbaugh — Person · Referenced coach (turnaround archetype) · 7 mentions · first at 1:05
  Included among coaches who can rapidly change a franchise’s trajectory; also referenced in a comedic ‘movie trailer’ segment and in a broader point about replacing legends with wide searches.
  Thing really matters. So if you look at the teams that have made big jumps in a year, Ben Johnson, Mike Vrabel, Jim Harbaugh, Liam Cohen, Shawn Peyton, it's not all players. It's mostly the coach.
• Ben Johnson — Person · Referenced coach (example of coaching impact) · 6 mentions · first at 0:45
  Cited as proof that coaching/staff hires drive team improvement more than draft/free agency; also referenced in the context of Detroit’s offensive continuity risk when an elite OC leaves.
• Matthew Stafford — Person · Referenced quarterback (veteran benchmark) · 6 mentions · first at 5:29
  Used as the contrast case to a young QB (Drake May): pre-snap mastery, experience, and ability to solve complex defenses; also mentioned regarding age concerns for the Rams.
• Kenneth Walker — Person · Referenced player (RB film breakdown subject) · 3 mentions · first at 9:54
  Kosell breaks down his running style—contact balance, patience, and ability to reach the edge—framed as a key factor in Seattle’s offensive control.
  He was. you don't don't normally see that and certainly not from Kenneth Walker who always looks to get to the perimeter.
• Devin Witherspoon — Person · Referenced player (defensive impact / pressure piece) · 3 mentions · first at 10:08
  Discussed as a physical corner who could tackle Kenneth Walker and as an unaccounted-for pressure/blitz element in Seattle’s protection manipulation.
  The idea of a corner coming up and bringing him down by themselves. maybe his own teammate Deon Witherspoon could do it. Most corners couldn't. What do you make of his effectiveness?
• Liam Cohen — Person · Referenced coach (turnaround example) · 4 mentions · first at 1:07
  Credited with a major year-one turnaround for the Jaguars; used to support the thesis that coaching drives most team improvement.
  Key positions. Pass rusher, tackle, weapon, quarterback. I have the Lions at seven. Number six, Liam Cohen. Year one.
• Albert Breer — Person · Referenced expert · 3 mentions · first at 40:17
  Mentioned as a source of insights and analysis on NFL topics.
  The Mitchell report I always thought was unfair. And I maybe I'm talking to the wrong people. Albert Brerier, Monday morning quarterback, joins us. And everybody's telling me he's a good prospect.
• Shawn Peyton — Person · Referenced coach (elite opponent / coaching impact example) · 2 mentions · first at 1:07
  Listed among top coaches who can elevate teams quickly and as part of Buffalo’s daunting slate of coaching opponents.
  The teams that have made big jumps in a year, Ben Johnson, Mike Vrabel, Jim Harbaugh, Liam Cohen, Shawn Peyton, it's not all players. It's mostly the coach.
• Jackson Smith and Jigba — Person · Referenced player (receiver on key missed throw) · 2 mentions · first at 45:16
  Mentioned in film breakdown as the target on a missed/late placement throw that could have been a touchdown; also cited as an example of Seattle’s strong drafting.
  And you see the result now where they don't reach as much. Jackson Smith and Jigba is a great example of it. the top rated guy on their board at the time right when they were picking their I think it was 20th overall in the 2023.
• Caleb Williams — Person · Referenced quarterback (comparison point) · 4 mentions · first at 19:32
  Used as a benchmark for QB quality and roster support; also referenced in draft-class comparisons and playoff performance framing.
  Stafford is or a Sam Darnold is or a Momes and his titles were or Jaylen Herz is or now Caleb Williams is. So, here's what's really fascinating. about the Joe Brady hire. So…
• Jared Goff — Person · Referenced quarterback (comparison/comp) · 2 mentions · first at 7:03
  Appears as a QB benchmark in a debate about team ranking and as a stylistic comp for another prospect (Mendoza) in the later interview segment.
  So, if you don't have a very good quarterback, how you how are you better than Mahomes and Josh Allen and Drake May and Jared Goff?
• Travis Hunter — Person · Referenced player (roster piece / usage note) · 1 mention · first at 4:02
  Mentioned as a talented player whose limited involvement affected the Jaguars, with expectation of a larger role going forward.
  Coach. that's pretty good. That's pretty good team. So, and I think they didn't have Travis Hunter playing much. He should play a role going forward. Jags at six. I think the…
• Chris Collinsworth — Person · Referenced broadcaster (commentary authority) · 1 mention · first at 12:39
  Cited for an in-game assessment that Drake May looked unready, reinforcing the segment’s theme about young QBs speeding up under pressure.
  Chris Collinsworth said at halftime, he and Tariq when they came back for the start of the second half, Collinsworth just laid it out.

Companies & orgs

• Seattle Seahawks — Company · Business focus · 4 mentions · first at 1:37
  Discussed as a team with a strong roster and potential for future success in the NFL.
• New England Patriots — Company · Business focus · 2 mentions · first at 1:29
  Mentioned in the context of their performance and challenges in the NFL season.
  Okay? New England had a lot of money last year in free agency. They had the right coach. Jackson Dart and Drake May are both talented. It's the coach. So, and Seattle ace the draft.
• Buffalo Bills — Company · Business focus · 2 mentions · first at 2:22
  Mentioned regarding their coaching changes and upcoming challenges in the NFL season.
  Number nine would be Buffalo. Okay, Buffalo doesn't have a lot of cap space and they don't have a Pro Bowler on defense right now. Joe Brady, is he an upgrade over Shawn McDermott? I don't.
• Los Angeles Rams — Company · Business focus · 2 mentions · first at 4:28
  Mentioned in the context of their performance and strategic plays in the NFL.
  To look like a different team offensively next year. I'd put the Bears at four. I know you think it's high. The Rams had to play a perfect game and beat him in overtime in the playoffs. Last four losses all came in one-score games.
• Kansas City Chiefs — Company · Business focus · 2 mentions · first at 26:07
  Discussed regarding their current roster challenges and future prospects in the NFL.
  Well, they don't have they don't have the depth of talent like Philly, Detroit Seattle Rams. And after this draft in cap space, Chargers Denver, they don't have I don't.
• Detroit Lions — Company · Business focus · 1 mention · first at 3:16
  Discussed as a team with potential and strategic hires for the upcoming season.
  Schedule. They'll be a very good team. I don't think in the AFC they'll represent the conference in the Super Bowl. Number seven, I would say the Detroit Lions. I really like…
• Houston Texans — Company · Business focus · 2 mentions · first at 6:51
  Mentioned regarding their performance and roster in the NFL.
  Houston has a better roster than the Kansas City Chiefs. I Jacksonville, are they close? They got as many defenders that are good. Travis No, Joe. Jags roster is good. It is.
• New York Giants — Company · Business focus · 1 mention · first at 1:24
  Mentioned in the context of their coaching and performance in the NFL.
  Making$ 18 million a year has a lot of say in even the draft and free agency. So, the Titans and Giants had a lot of money last year.
• Cleveland Browns — Company · Business focus · 1 mention · first at 19:02
  Briefly mentioned in the context of NFL team discussions.
  McCarthy, Jeff Hafley, Clint Kubak, Robert Salah. no, no, nobody no votes for Todd Mon. So, way to go Cleveland. But the one I look at is Joe Brady. Joe Brady is way down that list.

Concepts & topics

• NFL — Concept · Core topic · 2 mentions · first at 0:04
  Central theme of the episode, discussing teams, strategies, and future prospects.
• AFC West — Concept · Strategy · 4 mentions · first at 2:36
  Discussed as a competitive division within the NFL affecting team strategies.
  They face the AFC West, the NFC North, plus the Rams and the Houston Texans.
• NFC North — Concept · Strategy · 3 mentions · first at 2:36
  Mentioned as a competitive division within the NFL affecting team strategies.
  They face the AFC West, the NFC North, plus the Rams and the Houston Texans.

Places & events

• Super Bowl — Event · Key argument · 12 mentions · first at 2:58
  Discussed in the context of team performances and strategies leading to the event.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Welcome to the Herd's official YouTube channel. Make sure to like and subscribe. Don't forget to check out the Colin Coward podcast, all of our NFL instant reactions, and more football content. Here we go. It's hour two. It is a Wednesday. We're live in Chicago. It is The Herd. Wherever you may be, however you may be listening or watching, thanks for making us part of your day. Greg Kosell is going to show up in about four or five minutes. So, I I was thinking about this. I know it's really really early, but the NFL season is over. And once an NFL season ends, there are three ways to improve your team. Number one is the coaching and staff hires. Number two is free agency. And number three is the draft. Those are the the primary ways. I think the draft's worth about 15%. I think free agency is worth about 15%.

0:45 And I think Ben Johnson and Mike Vrabel are proof. Uh the coaching's about 70%. Now most rosters don't radically change. And if they do like New England's change this year, well, it's up to Mike Frabel, the coach. Okay, so to me, the coaching thing really matters. So if you look at the teams that have made big jumps in a year, Ben Johnson, Mike Vrabel, Jim Harbaugh, Liam Cohen, Shawn Peyton, it's not all players. It's mostly the coach. And if they do change the roster, the coach has big say in that. The coach making$ 18 million a year has a lot of say uh in in even the draft and free agency. So, I mean, the Titans and Giants had a lot of money last year.

1:27 They didn't have the right coaches. Okay? New England had a lot of money last year in free agency. They had the right coach. I mean, Jackson Dart and Drake May are both talented. It's the coach. So, and Seattle ace the draft. So, it's not the draft. Seattle's the draft. They had two guys, a guard and a safety out of the draft class that had an impact. Two of 22 starters. And that's not counting special teams. And their special teams in Seattle were impactful. So, I do believe you can look after all the coaching hires. I'm going to do a top 10 after the coaching hires, after free agency, and after the draft.

2:02 And I would say, here we go, number 10. I think the Chiefs, I'd put them at number 10 right now. They've got three really good picks. Three of the top 75 picks. They need to get a rush end, an offensive tackle, probably a running back. If they get that Notre Dame running back in the first round, I don't think they will, but if they do, absolute home run. and I have him at 10. Number nine would be Buffalo. Okay, Buffalo doesn't have a lot of cap space and they don't have a Pro Bowler on defense right now. Joe Brady, is he an upgrade over Shawn McDermott? I don't necessarily think so. I'm going to wait and see. Their schedule is brutal. Rams, Texans, AFC West, NFC North. Brutal, brutal schedule. Number six, the Patriots. I or number eight, the Patriots. I like New England, but Drake May was sacked 68 times this year. The O line doesn't need a tweak. It mostly outside of guard needs an overhaul. Uh,

2:56 three straight playoff games with eight plus points. At one point in the Super Bowl, eight drives, eight punts, and seven completions. They also played an incredibly weak schedule. Next year, I think it's a top six most difficult schedule. They'll be a very good team. I don't think in the AFC they'll represent the conference in the Super Bowl. Number seven, I would say the Detroit Lions. I really like their OC hire out of Arizona. I was surprised how good the Cardinals offense was at times this year with Jacobe Brassette. Um I think they've got their star players all signed and they've got star players at key positions. Pass rusher, tackle, weapon, quarterback. I have the Lions at seven. Number six, Liam Cohen. Year one.

3:39 What a turnaround by the Jaguars. top 10 in offense and defense. They're only going to get better. Um I I mean, listen, first coach to ever, win 13 plus games, taking over a team with four or fewer wins. Um only first year head coach. Um that's pretty good. That's pretty good team. So, and I and I think they didn't have Travis Hunter playing much. He should play a role going forward. Jags at six. I think the Chargers are going to feel like a Super Bowl team in September. upgraded OC, both their tackles back, tons of cap space, and I think they're going to spend it on offense to protect Justin Herbert as they should. The defense may not be as good. Without Jesse Menter, it'll be fine, but I think they're going to look like a different team offensively next year. I'd put the Bears at four. I know you think it's high. The Rams had to play a perfect game and beat him in overtime in the playoffs. Last

4:32 four losses all came in one-score games. Teams, by the way, went two and 14- one after they played the Bears. I don't know what that means, but it's something. They did not take the ball away in the playoffs like they did in the regular season. I think they have to spend almost their entire draft capital on defensive players. Number three, the Denver Broncos. Not only were they missing Bo Knicks, but JK Dobbins and two of their top three receivers in the playoff game. They should have been the Super Bowl team. They matched up with Seattle much better. I think Seattle would have won, but Denver kind of felt like between the Blizzard and their injuries, they got bad breaks. Fewest sacks allowed, tied for the fewest sacks allowed and the most sacks on defense.

5:14 I'm sorry. I like the coach, the roster, and the quarterback. Number two, and maybe they should be number one. I'd put the Rams outed opponents even in their five losses this year. Highest gritted offense, highest gritted defense according to PFF. played the toughest schedule by any playoff team. I worry about Matt Stafford's age, but there's an argument they'll be the best team in the league next year. Number one Seattle between Mike McDonald, John Snder, his drafting record, Sam Darnold, so many of it's like it's like watching a little bit like watching uh OKC last year, the Spurs this year. They have so much upside and they're already really really good. So Seattle just doesn't miss and they've last four years they have hit on their top two picks and I mean stars the last four years in the draft top two picks. So they're not even paying those guys yet. That would be my top 10 right now. I don't have Green Bay, but they've

6:14 been a number seven seed in the playoffs, haven't they? This year they were a seven seed. Weren't they a seven seed the year before? Jmack, you have a you you're just puzzled by this. Well, listen. I know I know we have a guest usually here. I I got a lot to say about this one, so maybe we should wait a little bit. I mean, we'll wait. We'll wait.

6:32 It's kind of wild here, coward. Really? I don't know. So, no Eagles anywhere to be found. No Joe Burrow, no Lamar Jackson. I mean, were you the one yesterday telling me they had nine

6:44 pay Lamar Jackson that new contract he's going to get? That that the Ravens are going to have to move off people.

6:51 Where are the Houston Texans? 11 or something like aren't you the guy that kept complaining that CJ Strad was regressing?

6:57 I think he's he's not a very good quarterback. So, if you don't have a very good quarterback, how you how are you better than Mahomes and Josh Allen and Drake May and Jared Goff?

7:04 The defense is elite and we just saw it's not about quarterbacks, it's about defense at this point.

7:09 Um I'm surprised the Atlanta Falcons Okay, I'm just that's just a joke. Um but yeah, this is uh three from the AFC West.

7:17 Yeah, two from the NFC West. No ner. Hey, you know how I like Mendoza. Raiders may be 11 by September.

7:25 Stop it. All right, let's bring in Greg Coell. 46 years NFL films. Um, there's so much to talk about. You know, I love Sam Darnold. You know, I've always loved Sam Darnold.

7:36 I I know that. I know that he had a little hitch in his, you know, delivery and he came into the league at 20, so he wasn't quite ready. I I argued yesterday, people say, you know, everybody loves to get credit. And I said, the NFC was the better conference this year. By the end of the year, Momes is beat up and all the to go through a playoff and Mike Rabel's defense without a turnover. Breeze did that once. Aman did it once. Like that is sane because that Rams defense can create turnovers. But you tell me when you watch the Super Bowl

8:12 and even the playoffs, how much credit does Sam deserve? Well, you know, it's funny you say that because normally we talk about the quarterback as being the key to everything. Now, I thought what Darnold did in that game is he played that game the way it it was demanded to be played given the way their defense played. Uh, and now I was actually surprised. I was there in the stadium watching the game and then of course I watched the tape yesterday. I was truly surprised when I saw that he had 40 drop backs because the game didn't really play out that way because they ran the ball really well.

8:46 They ran a lot of plays. They controlled the ball for 33 minutes. Even though they weren't great on third down, they still controlled the ball. And I thought Darnold played that game the way it was demanded to be played. He missed a few, Colin, as you know, where he just missed. And that would have that would have probably made it even more of a route if he hit those throws. But there were times where it he clearly felt it wasn't clean. It was muddied and he checked it down. He obviously had that scramble on the I think it was the first third quarter drive. Uh he played really efficient football. Um I think it was it might have been Matt Hasselbeck. I can't remember. Um, but the term as opposed to game manager, which has a negative projorative term, and I think the term that Matt used was game commander, which I think is such a better way to talk about a quarterback that, you know, and and Tom Brady talks about this all the

9:36 time. You play the game the way the game demands that you play it. It's not about putting up the big stats. He played that game the right way.

9:44 Yeah. Drake May set an NFL Super Bowl record for passing yards in a quarter. So that's all you need to know because he was throwing the ball in the fourth quarter non-stop. So you got to get out of the stat. Now I I gotta ask you about Kenneth Walker. He's got such a unique style. I think we both like him. I liked him at Michigan State. He's a guy that breaks a lot of tackles. He is so thick. The idea of a corner coming up and bringing him down by themselves. You know, maybe his own teammate Deon Witherspoon could do it. Most corners couldn't. What do you make of his effectiveness?

10:14 Yeah. Well, you know what surprised me? We talked about this last week leading up to the game and I was surprised that he was able to get to the edge as much as he did against that Patriots defense. Um, they are really good running out of multiple tight end personnel. That's really their foundation. 21 of his 27 carries came out of either 12 or 13 personnel, meaning two tight ends or three tight ends. But I was truly surprised with him getting to the edge. I thought with a Mike Vrabel defense and certainly Vrabel being coached by Bellich where setting the edge was really a constant theme. Um that that's something truly that surprised me. But I thought that Walker in this game went ran with sort of calculated patience. I mean when you run with patience what you do is you manipulate second level defenders. And I thought he did a really good job of that. And then of course he certainly has the burst

11:08 when he saw the hole. There were times watching the the the tape where I thought of Levian Bell with how patient he was. You know, you don't don't normally see that and certainly not from Kenneth Walker who always looks to get to the perimeter.

11:20 Yeah. The um New England did a pretty good job until they got tired and their tackling regressed. New England did a pretty good job to slow down Seattle's offense for a while. What was their secret sauce or was it just personnel?

11:36 Yeah. No, I think that that's an overlooked element of the game. I thought that the the defense for the Patriots actually played exceptionally well. I mean, obviously Walker had that that 30-yard run and 29 yard run back to back, but for the most part, you know, I thought the Patriots defense played well. Now, as I said, Darnold missed a few and that would have changed the whole feel about the game. Um, you know, obviously he just underthrew Shahed on a on a vertical route, a post route that Gonzalez was able to get his hands on.

12:05 He threw uh he had uh Smith and Jigba on on that sort of bang eight. That would have been a touchdown if he laid it out in front of him.

12:13 Yeah, that one right there he he threw ball behind him. Yep. Yep. Yep. So, that would have changed our conversation, but for the most part, they played well. I thought the safety, the rookie safety Woodson, I thought he was all over the tape. He played a really, really good game. Um but, you know, it was a close game. Obviously, when it got to be 197 and New England got the ball, I'm not saying you thought they were going to win, but for a moment there, you're thinking, "Oh, we might have a we might have a ball game here."

12:39 You know, Chris Collinsworth said at halftime, he and Tariq when they came back for the start of the second half, you know, Collinsworth just laid it out. He goes, "Yeah, Drake's not he's not ready." Like, this is this right now feels too big for him. Now, some of that's the pass protection, but he did look,

12:56 you know, what happens when you speed up young quarterbacks, their accuracy dips. Was it just a matter of he just didn't want to get hit, he was trying to get rid of the ball?

13:04 No. Well, being in the stadium, the first thing I noticed, okay, was was the pressure packages that Seattle started the game with. They're not a high percentage blitz defense. In fact, they were one of the the lower percentage blitz defenses, but they started the game on third downs with pressure. Now, then they backed off the pressure because they only rushed five or more on eight of May's 53 dropbacks. It might have seemed like more watching the game because they started with pressure. And what they did a phenomenal job of, Colin, is you can dictate pass protection by what how you align your defensive front. And they did such a good job of that. They lined up with a lot of fiveman fronts, six-man fronts.

13:44 That dictates how you have to pass protect. And then once you know how they have to protect, then you can bring someone, and it was Witherspoon, who's not accounted for. So they did such a really good job with that early in the game, and they got Drake May sort of playing fast. You know, we've talked about this before with quarterbacks that all of a sudden they start to play fast and everything gets speeded up. the mental process gets speeded up, the physical process gets speeded up, and then they miss throws that they normally would make with no problem at all.

14:15 The only guarantee I made on the Friday before the Super Bowl, I said on the air, New England will not run the ball, they will absolutely, that's the And I said, that's why I ended up picking Seattle. I said, that means Drake May is going to have to throw 35 times plus. He's 1 and seven. That's not what you want a 23-y old doing in the Super Bowl. they will not run the ball. So, it was obvious to me, which means it was probably really obvious to you and it was to me it was just felt like

14:43 Seattle athletically in the box has better players. Forget Scheme for a second. They're just twitchy, fast, long, and I felt like New England's O line was overwhelmed right out of the gate.

14:57 They were overmatched. And the secret sauce for Seattle all year, quite frankly, has been, and this is a trend in the league, if you can do it. You know, it depends on your players, is they're able to stop the run playing out of a too high safety structure, playing out of a too deep shell, which they played a lot of in this game because of the quality of their upfront players. I did not think New England would be able to run the ball well in this game. Certainly not inside with Stevenson because Murphy, Leonard Williams, Jiren Reid, their tackle rotation is as good as any in the league. We know what they have on the outside with Lawrence, a terrific player who had a great year and and they just overmatched a New England offensive line, particularly on the left side with playing the two rookies. They were just overmatched. But that's the se that's one of the secret sauces is they're able to stop the run without

15:47 having to allocate a safety. Uh, and and I'm not talking about Emmen Worry because he's essentially a Sam linebacker in their defense. I'm talking about allocating a safety either Julian Love or Kobe Bryant. They don't have to allocate them as part of the run defense so they can keep them in a two deep shell.

16:05 I I I said before the Super Bowl, um, there are parts of New England I like a lot. I don't love their O line and I think um, they probably need another tight end. I was disappointed they didn't use Hunter Henry more. I think you can beat the Seahawks at tight end. That's why the Rams are so effective against Seattle. They go right at the tight end. Obviously, Puk is great, but New England's receivers are fine. The O line though to me is a really a priority in the offseason. You got to draft it. You got to spend some money on it. What did the What did the tape say? Well, obviously what what happened in the game in Seattle, in addition to those pressures early in the game that set the tone, then settled into playing a lot of I don't want to say basic defense, but they created one-on-one matchups because they lined up a lot in what we call loaded fronts, meaning there were three defensive linemen to one side of the

16:53 center and then they put Ernest Jones on the ball. So, it was essentially a fiveman front and almost always that dictates what we call 50 protection, meaning that the five offensive linemen are responsible for one-on-one blocks. And Seattle just can they won those blocks too many times. They physically were better than the Patriots offensive line in addition to the times when they did pressure and they were able to beat them because they understood their protections and how to attack it with an unaccounted for rusher. So, it was sometimes, Colin, football is just matchup football and the Seahawks were just better up front and they won a lot of one-on-one matchups.

17:33 Yeah. No, it it's I mean, that's that's what the good coaches do. All this raw raw stuff. The bottom line is you have to say when you look at film, guys, we are insufficient athletically here. We have to protect that. I The one thing you could see that even I could see was Seattle's defensive front. You got elite players and Will Campbell, and we said this before the game, is probably a guard. He came out of a bad draft class. He he'd probably be a very good guard. He doesn't feel like right now a left tackle. So, the Athletic, they do a good job at this. They do a lot of surveys and polls. They pulled nine NFL coaches and executives on the best coaching hires in this cycle. So, there were nine first place votes. Best coaching in this cycle. Best coaching hires. So, let's go look at the results. John Harbaugh Giants, that was my take, is the best hire, got six of the nine first place votes.

18:34 Kevin Stfansky got a vote. Jesse Menter and I guess Joe Brady got a vote. Okay. Uh, there you go. Uh, but what's interesting, if you add up all the votes, Joe Brady was only the eighth best hireer of 10. That is way down that list. People like Harbos, Defansky, Jesse Miner, Mike McCarthy, Jeff Hafley, Clint Kubak, Robert Salah. I mean, no, no, nobody no votes for Todd Mon. So, way to go Cleveland. But the one I look at is Joe Brady. Joe Brady is way down that list. So, think about what's happening in Buffalo. They're already banging on the fans are already banging on the fans in the media are banging on Brandon being the GM because of his drafting record.

19:19 So, they have lost a lot of patience in Buffalo with Josh Allen not being surrounded by elite players like a Matt Stafford is or a Sam Darnold is or a Momes and his titles were or Jaylen Herz is or now Caleb Williams is. So, here's what's really fascinating. about the Joe Brady hire. So again, we all knew Shawn McDermott was a very good coach. He may have struggled in January. He was a very good coach. Have you seen Buffalo's schedule this year, folks? They face the AFC West, the NFC North, plus the Rams and the Houston Texans.

20:01 These are Joe Brady's coaching opponents this year. Andy Reid, Mike Frabel twice, Jim Harbaugh, Ben Johnson, Shawn Peyton, Shawn McVey, Matt Laflur, Demo Ryan, and Dan Campbell. Now, he does get Aaron Glenn twice. That helps. Sorry, J-Mack. But look at this. That's like those that's Hall of Fame stuff as a rookie head coach without a Pro Bowler defensively. So, I don't know. I don't know how I've said before sometimes I just have to watch stuff. I think Clint Kubak's a good hire. I got to see it. I think Fernando Mendoza going to be a good quarterback. I got to see it. You ever go to a prize fight, a boxing match, and you think you know? I went to a couple Pacquiao fights in my life and I'm like, I don't know. Uh yeah, middle of second round I'm like Opacio's gonna win this fight. So like I have to see Joe Brady in Buffalo. I don't I have no idea. I thought Siri was over his skis completely and he's got a trophy. Here's

21:06 Joe Brady on becoming the Bills coach. I know it's I'm I might be in the head coaching role, but I've to me I've I've woke up with the same mindset, same approach every day that I've been coaching. Um, the only difference is I'm going to a different office, right? I know the guys aren't here and and it's a little different. I'm, you know, I might be on my phone a lot more. I'm usually never on my phone and I've I've been on my phone more than I ever have in my life the last week. But, um, my approach, my work ethic, the the time I'm waking up, nothing's changed. It's kind of who I am.

21:39 Um, I always root for coaches. It's really hard. You don't see your family. I don't root against coaches. Uh um I mean it's pretty obvious on certain coaches very quickly that's not going to work. I'm not rooting against him. It's just not going to work. Joe Brady may work, but when you look at the coaches he's going to face and he doesn't have a Pro Bowler on defense. That's a lot of good coaches and a lot of good quarterbacks. Speaking of that, this is like what a nightmare. Honest to God, Andy Reid, Vable twice. All these are road games.

22:16 I mean, he got he got the short end of the stick on year one coaches you have to face with high expectations with a GM who's getting all sorts of heat because of his drafting record. His drafting record on offense has been pretty good. Keon Coleman, second round receiver pick hasn't worked. I liked him in college. I thought it was a good pick. I thought it was going to work. I watched him at Florida State and I'm like, "Oh yeah, it take a while, but he'll be good." Greg Coell's around the corner and a list. Yes. Already on next year.

22:52 Uh, by the way, in in about 15 to 20 minutes, you've heard of Stephen Spielberg's DreamWorks Studios. Well, I have spent over the last 48 hours. I have a new business venture. It's called Darnold Works Studios. I'm naming it after Sam Darnold. So, Spielberg has DreamWorks. I've created a new venture called Darnold Work Studios and uh we've got some exciting new movie productions. 15 minutes out. Very excited to introduce them to you in 15 minutes. First though, JMack with news.

23:31 NO, NO, NO. TURN ON THE NEWS. THIS IS the Herd line news. All right, Colin. Before you get started with this whole darn old situation, I know you got a whole movie studio you're going to pop up. I just want to caution you. There is news in Seattle. So, they have lost Clint Kubak to the Raiders. Okay, we talked about this. He left as the OC. He was very good with Sam Darnold. Who is going to replace him? Colin, we just saw this play out in Detroit last year with Ben Johnson. They went to a guy in house. All reports right now indicate Seattle is going to stay in house for this OC job and it's going to either guy go to a quarterback coach named Andrew Janokco or the passing game coordinator Jake Pets.

24:15 Those are the leaders to be the OC play caller for Mike McDonald and Sam Darm. Don't love it.

24:22 I have to be totally upfront. Don't want to be love it or hate it immensely. I don't like promoting from within with very few exceptions. I don't like doing it. The number we had a graph we put on the screen a month ago on this overwhelmingly does not work

24:38 in football right in basketball and other fields it works fine but in football historically it has not worked at all.

24:44 The best candidate when a legend leaves when Steve Spurer left Florida you know or when you have a Urban Meyer leaves Ohio State when you when you you got to go and have a wide search. I've always had a theory. The greater the person you're replacing, the wider the search has to be for them. Detroit lost Ben Johnson, the the best OC in the league for two or three years. I have nothing against anybody in that Lions building. You got to go bigger and broader. When Michigan lost Jim Harbaugh, you don't just elevate the assistant everybody likes. You've got to make a national sur. That's why I said about Alabama when they lost Sabin. You can say what you want. Every AD in the country knows Kalin Dbor is a great hire. Now Alabama is not as good when Sabin was because they don't have the NIL money. Sabin knew I'm getting the hell out of here once NIL got revved up. Alabama doesn't have that kind of money in state. So you

25:38 can blame Kalin Dbor. That roster is not close to Sabin's roster 5 years ago. But Dbor was a great hot. You usually don't go legend to like next potential legend. That would ideally be the way to do it. But so I don't love this. But the best businesses often have that next legend. They've identified them and they got them on staff and they're already working with the coach. A lot of the best ones, I mean, I'll have examples for you when we talk about this next week cuz, you know, it's the offseason. We got a lot to talk about. Uh, all right, Kyle, let's move on to the next story, and that's the Kansas City Chiefs, the mediocre Chiefs this past season. Hell, you could say below average. Uh, a lot of nerves about what's going to happen with them this off seasonason. Patrick Mahomes obviously has the torn ACL and LCL.

26:21 Well, the Super Bowl odds are out for next season. And would you know it, these are this is the Chiefs worst odds since Mahomes became the starter. They are currently plus 1,500.

26:33 Yeah. To win the Super Bowl. That is extremely low for a Momes Reed le. Well, if if we they don't have any cap space. That's their biggest dilemma. Um they their three needs like they need an edge rusher. It's a very good edge rusher draft. They need a running back. Well, they may nail one with their first pick. So, I think a lot of this draft for Kansas City, if they could get love in the first round, the running back from Notre Dame, that solves an issue. They need a defensive end. They probably need an offensive tackle.

27:04 Again, it's a the things they need, edge and tackle and running back. They could get all three cuz they have three of the top 75 picks. So, I want to watch their draft before I have any great proclamations. They do need an infusion on the edge defensively in the back field and on the O line and they don't have the money to go get it. So if they draft it's a very they don't have a ton of of you know they have to nail these picks that and that's

27:31 I mean their secondary is total garbage. They have no players. I'm just telling you may need a tackle. I mean listen I know they like the potential of Simmons. How many games did he miss last year? I mean, you can't have a rookie missing a bunch of games and then the right side's terrible. There's just no room for error on the offensive line. There's nowhere you can start the Chiefs other than third place in the division right now. Maybe that goes up at the draft and free agency. Fair, but they're definitely behind the Broncos and Chargers.

27:58 No, I have the Chargers winning the division next year. Denver second, Kansas City third. Today I do.

28:03 Yeah. And then listen, Chiefs fans, be optimistic. You can go up, but I'm telling you right now, Jeremiah Love ain't fixing that offense if you go with him at nine. It's It's not fixing any. Maybe Kelsey comes back. I mean, listen, I'm not taking glee in the demise of the Chiefs.

28:17 Sounds like it. But I mean, listen, there's just a lot of teams better than them. If you you know how they do the roster off seasonason, like, oh, this guy, they got blue chip talent here and there.

28:25 I'm just telling Chiefs are not in the top 10, maybe not top 12 for rosters. Yes, they have Mahomes and Reed, but the talent, they're just, it's just not there anymore.

28:33 Well, they don't have they don't have the depth of talent like Philly, Detroit Seattle

28:39 Rams. And after this draft in cap space, Chargers Denver, they don't have I don't think they're quite where Denver's at.

28:45 I mean, Houston has a better roster than the Kansas City Chiefs. I Jacksonville, are they close? They got as many defenders that are good. I mean, Travis No, Joe. Jags roster is good. It is.

28:56 Yeah. All right. Final story, Colin. Let's go to the NBA. This is an interesting one because Jason Tatum off the Achilles injury suffered 39 weeks ago. He is now working out with their G-League affiliate. Took part in his first five on-5 scrimmage yesterday. Tatum said he was feeling good, but added that this doesn't point to him returning this season or not. He's just following a step-by-step plan. Now, Colin, this is an interesting one because we recently saw Jamal Murray suffer an ACL. He started practicing with uh the G-League team for Denver and everybody got excited a couple years ago and they said, "No, we're not bringing you back. We're not going to rush it.

29:35 They waited. It worked out. We saw Klay Thompson come back. Remember he had the Achilles and ACL backto-back years. I know he was a little older than Tatum. Colin, you know, I love me some Jason Tatum. I would preach extreme caution. If I'm the Boston Celtics,

29:49 the And I and I I agree with you. And here's one of the reasons I agree with you. What is the NBA today compared to say 10 to 12 years ago? The pace is much faster. So, you're getting a lot of these soft tissue tears. LeBron's talked about this. Now, I don't think that's primarily I don't think that's overwhelmingly the reason guys don't play. They make too much money. The season's long. They look at their baseball and football counterparts and the money and the the NBA's got some regular season issues that go a mile deep. And I don't The tanking is I'm sorry, it doesn't work. People tank when they want to. You got too many stars that just don't feel like playing. So, but I do think where LeBron is right, the pace of the league. It's a pace and space three, you know, that's what it is right now. And and more guys are getting little tears and dinged up. So Jason Tatum, it's like he would merge back

30:42 onto the freeway. It'd be the autobond. It's not just the 405. It's the autobond. The pace of the league is too fast. I think if you're Boston, I don't think you bring him back. Uh, I it just I think the pace is too fast and you could tweak and give problem. And let's face it, Tatum's in impeccable shape. Boston's very wellrun. They have a very solid roster. They've got six more years with this group to win titles. There is no rush. There is absolutely no rush.

31:11 Totally agree with you. One of your uh better takes. Now, I will say the Celtics started out slow this season. Obviously, I mean, they lost like four or five guys in the rotation. However,

31:20 they're currently second in the East. Yeah, five and a half behind the Pistons. Joe Misoula, we got to give it up. I I know your guy Bill Simmons bashing Joe Missoula, calling him what? Second row Joe for a couple years. Hey, Joe Missoula like kind of knows what he's doing with basketball. Moves Pton Pritchard to the bench. They move off Simons. This is a damn good team

31:38 and they will contend in the East, right? Top five in offensive and defensive efficiency. Missoula's done a hell of a job. I know coach of the year is going to whoever Detroit or OKT, one of those guys, but Missoula needs some props from you and your cadre of

31:53 I didn't criticize him. I I I I said his first year I said he's not a top five coach and they have a top five roster. So, it's uneven. But, you know, you have a right in America to learn on the job. Not everybody that takes a job in a tech company is Zuckerberg day one. Like it's okay in the NBA if you're a young coach and your first year you're situationally you're not you know the really good coaches like in college basketball they're scoring six points a game like Tom Izzo calling timeout having an inbounds play. I mean ISO is the master at calling a timeout inbounds play and scoring like that. That's that's second third level stuff. Some of these young coaches they have great relationships with players. I mean Denver had a young coach first year. Is he is he as good as the guy he replaces? Probably not situationally, but it's okay.

32:42 Brad Stevens moved up to the front office. Every guy he plugs in at center is working for for the Celtics. They lost Horford uh and they lost two other centers. I'm spacing on him now. Any guy they put in there is like crushing it. I mean, the Celtics are doing a damn good job. And you know, I don't like any Boston teams and being a New York guy. Why? Why? I

33:00 because I'm a New York guy. We don't like Boston. Come on. We just go into every game and every season. with a clean slate. There's no reason to have agendas. Boston Celtics,

33:10 I like me some Tatum. Uh, you know, Boston Celtics are a one of the top three best run teams in the league. Yeah. OKC Celtics, Spurs, last 10, 15 years. Well,

33:20 can't really dispute that. I will say uh there's a mantra about uh Jason Tatum, Laker, you know, he's has a Kobe Bryant tattoo.

33:27 Yeah. People call him future Laker Jason Tatum. So, I am a Jason Tatum guy. Maybe he's coming to LA at some point. I I don't I don't know. Jac with the news.

33:37 Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by. The herd lie news. Starting a new venture. You've heard of DreamWorks. It's Darnold's works. Well, the coaching carousel has come to a stop until next January. And so, we thought we'd present coming coaching attractions with all the new hires in the NFL and is substantially important. So, from the dreamwork studio that Spielberg has, and I I just ripped it off. I came up with my Darnold work studio, and these are some of my new ventures. They're in production right now, and I just want to give you a heads up and give you a little taste of what's about to come.

34:20 You remember Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, Quinton Tarantino? I mean, who can forget that? What an alltime classic. Well, my new feature is a gritty reboot where the defense gets top billing in Once Upon a Time in Solwood. And this time, the fairy tale ends with a goal line standin. Not bad, right? Well, one of the great actors in recent I mean in our lives is John Malovich, right? Like everybody knows John Malovich is is unbelievable. Well, um, being John Matovich. Check out mine. The psyche of a championship coach with a young quarterback in the new film. Being John Harbaugh.

35:07 It It turns out playoff enlightenment requires special teams meetings at dawn. Very excited for this. Okay. Now, now I know you love Dave Chappelle and remember he did very, very funny uh comedy Halfbaked. Very f everything Chappelle touches. Well, now my venture. Miami wants all the smoke, but the expectations are as high as the vibes in half bait. Time to see if these new buds can plant a seed.

35:40 Oh, I see what you did there. Okay. Half baked. All right. I mean, now this may not be in your wheelhouse. Dolly Parton, the Southern Classic, Steel Magnolia.

35:52 Yes. That was a great alltime movie. In a town built on toughness, sometimes the story gets a little soft. A familiar face returns to the AFC North to renew a bond as strong as Steeler Magnolia. Old relationships at a new offensive wrinkle.

36:12 And they got Aaron Rogers in there, huh? Yeah. Mike McCarthy, Cam Baylor, Steeler Magnolia. Well, is there a bigger fan? Probably is, but Mission Impossible.

36:27 No. J-Mack, you you know, I mean, we you and I both this this gets me to a not not a lot gets me to a theater. But the mission with my new venture has changed. Your mission, should you choose to accept it. Fix the quarterback, modernize the offense, survive the AFC North. Will Todd assemble the elite team he needs in Monan Impossible? The game tape will self-destruct if the protection doesn't hold. Monan impossible.

36:59 Wow. No Miles Garrett but Shadur and Deon. That is impossible. Oh my gosh. And finally, it's a lot of work. I mean, I I I hope this this studio works or I'll be working, you know, a second job here. You and I love Jim Carrey, the classic comedy Dumb and Dumber.

37:18 Well, in my reboot, he's the quirky offensive genius and he's the quirky offensive genius. One wears khakis, the other wears athleisure. Together, they're trying to prove that in the AFC, Brain Power Travels, presenting Smart and Smarter.

37:33 Yeah, with Jim Harbaugh. Just when I thought the Chargers couldn't get any smarter, they redeemed themselves. It's Jim Harbaugh, Mike McDaniel, and Smart and Smarter. You know, J-Mack, there's still room for investors in Darnold Works Studios.

37:50 What kind of are you looking for? Five figure investment, six, some seed. What are you looking for?

37:55 Just emotional support is all I really need. I I'm just curious. Do you think that everyone else in the country is as high on the Chargers as you and I? Because when you look at these hires and what teams have, it seems like a no-brainer that the Chargers were the biggest winners so far in the

38:10 When you watch the Chargers this year, the feeling was it's a defensive coaching story and you're just hoping the offense can generate 20 points. This year, it's going to be a coaching and offensive story. So the defense, I mean, they won 11 games last year in a division with Payton and Andy Reid. So to me, improvement with the Chargers will not just be standings improvement.

38:38 They will feel to me in September, we'll all be saying, "Oh, that's a Super Bowl team." That's why, for the record, this is why I've said it's so important the Joe Brady hire because the Chargers now just took an offensive step up. They also have a ton of cap space. So like if you're a Charger doubter, they haven't had a lot of money. Now they have it and they're getting their tackles back and they've upgraded OC. So like to me and also we all know Kansas City is not going six and 11. We all know Baltimore should be better and New England now has more cap space and everybody year three for Drake May. So, this was the year to get right.

39:25 A and at the end of the year in the AFC Championship, Bo Knicks wasn't available.

39:28 JK Dobbins wasn't available. They were down two receivers. This was kind of that gap year in the AFC. It's like and Buffalo didn't get in. AFC, I can make a guarantee AFC is going to be better next year. At the top, it's going to be much Liam Cohen in year two, you know, Payton gets now Bo Knicks another off season. Mhm.

39:50 So, Chargers last year 7-0 when they just got the 25 points, 10-1. Yeah. Yeah. They were 10- one when they just got over 20 points. So, like, is it is it realistic to say they will average six more points a game next year?

40:08 That's maybe I with McDaniel with their tackles, with their cap space, I think that's very realistic. Albert Brerier, Drew Brees last hour on a Wednesday. It's the herd. Remember when baseball had the Mitchell report? And I always hated that. And I'm like, well, you you took like two clubouses. You took a couple of, you know, AL East clubouses and Eastern like Met clubhouse or Red Sox or Yankee clubhouse. That that's not a macro look. The Mitchell report I always thought was unfair. And I maybe I'm talking to the wrong people. Albert Brerier, Monday morning quarterback, joins us. And everybody's telling me he's a good prospect.

40:51 I don't I mean to beat Ohio State and that Miami defense I thought against Miami late. He was unbelievable.

40:59 What are your people I mean Yeah. I mean they were in so many close games and they won all of them. I mean what what are your people telling you on Mendoza?

41:08 I think it's probably similar to what you're hearing. Um, you know, like I think the best way to look at this is always with the historical context and how would he fit into other draft classes. Um, and I don't think he would be the number one overall pick in every draft. Um, is is the way that I would term it. If you go back um, two years ago when Caleb Williams went first, Jaden Daniels went second, Drake May went third, Pennix went eighth, McCarthy went 10th, and Nicks went 12th. The consensus I've gotten is that he would have been the fourth of those quarterbacks. So, right in the middle.

41:43 Um, and the comp I've gotten is Jared Goff. Um, and I I think if you like look at him physically, um, what he's able to do, how natural a stroke he's got, the composure he has working from the pocket, his ability to play off of play action, a lot of RPO stuff at Indiana the same way there was at Cal all those years ago. Um, you can see the comp there. So, you know, I I I I I think most teams like the makeup. They like how much he's won. They like the accuracy. They think even though he hasn't played in a true pro style offense, um he's got the ability to do that based on his ability to process. Um but is he physically what, you know, say Drake May was coming out of North Carolina or Jaden Daniels was coming out of LSU or Caleb Williams was coming out of USC? He's not that.

42:34 Okay. So he would have gone fourth or fifth in that draft. Did they like him better than JJ McCarthy?

42:40 Yes. And that's what I'm saying. Better than Penn. Better than McCarthy. Better than Knicks, but not as good as those other three. And look, like Colin, I think those other three. I mean, one of them was just in the Super Bowl. Yeah.

42:51 The other one was in the NFC, another one was in the NFC title game last year. Yeah.

42:56 And then the third one is Caleb Williams, you know, who was in the divisional round of the playoffs and went toe-to-toe with Matthew Stafford. So I like I I I think the bar would be pretty high if the bar is 24 the 24 draft, but I'm just using that as a for example. There are other draft classes where he would have gone number one overall. I think he would have been in the mix last year with Ca with Cam Ward.

43:18 You know, I was I was saying and this is just my interpretation. I grew up out west. You grew up out east. I think you grew up at out east, right? And I always had this theory when I worked at the other place, ESPN, that West Coast people all go east by the time they're 25 for business to go to Europe connecting flight. They want to see New York City. Eastern people don't necessarily go west. When I worked at ESPN, half the building thought Pittsburgh was west. I mean, they thought the anything west of the Hudson River was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I didn't even know flights went out to Denver, right? And so West Coast fans pay attention to the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Eagles.

44:03 A lot of Patriot fans are like, I I don't know anything about Seattle. And I don't think they understand how great Mike McDonald made me may be the next Shawn McVey and how great the GM is. He's Howie Roseman, but actually in the draft the last four years better that and so when I look at Seattle, I think a lot of fans that are removed from the Pacific Northwest like don't realize how good and deep this roster is.

44:30 Can I mean everybody likes to copy cat cat in this league. I don't think you can copy what Seattle's done, can you?

44:36 Right. I and I agree. I think like he's got a Hall of Fame case now. John Schneider does like having won with two completely different groups. Um, you know, like I and you look at the roster and that's what's sustainable about it is that there's so many young players that when and I think we talked about this before the year, right? Like the Seattle Seahawks were one of those teams that had a lot of very good young players where if those players could become great players, well then they'd really have something. And we know about the older veterans on the team, Leonard Williams, Cooper Cup guys they got from the outside, right? That have been important pieces for them. Ernest Jones is another one of those. Uh, but you look at the young guys that they've drafted and developed and how many of those guys elevated this year. Jackson Smith and Jigba, Charles Cross, Kenneth Walker, Byron Murphy became a monster on

45:22 the defensive line. Devin Witherspoon, I think could have been Super Bowl MVP. Then this year they draft Nikki Manori and Gray Zable.

45:30 Wow. And it's interesting, you know, I I think John Schneider, one of the best things about him is he keeps evolving, right? So his ability to do this was part of a self- evvaluation after some of the Legion of Boom guys started to age out where he went back and looked at it and said, "Where have we started making our mistakes?" And their mistakes were made when they were reaching for guys right?

45:53 And you see the result now where they don't reach as much. Jackson Smith and Jigba is a great example of it. the top rated guy on their board at the time right when they were picking their I think it was 20th overall in the 2023 draft at the time they had DK Metaf and Tyler Lockett on big contracts but they picked him anyway because he's a great player and now the other two guys are gone and JSN is the best receiver in football so it's just decisions like that the ability to self-evaluate the ability to to to just go and find great players the Seahawks have a chance to be very good for a very long time because they've continued to look in the mirror.

46:32 They've continued to find ways to get great players in the roster. They found solutions at quarterback and they knew when to say when. I mean, you give John Schneider credit for the coach, too, right? Like, he was the one who went out and found Mike McDonald and was willing to wait three weeks for Mike McDonald when everybody else was snapping up their head coaches. There were eight teams that had openings that year. So, Schneider deserves a ton of credit for what's happened there. No question. And it's hard to replicate because so much of it is just about the nuts and bolts of being a GM, which is about getting good people in the building.

47:04 The um I I want to talk to you about the coaching hires. So I think it was the athletic went out and asked nine executives and Joe Brady ranked very low

47:14 and I said what's happening in Buffalo was fascinating because Brandon Bean's already getting heat locally, fans and media on his drafting. So now he goes in the building to hire the replacement for a very good coach. If you look at the schedule next year for the Buffalo Bills, Albert, we put it up earlier.

47:35 They are facing the greatest coaching opposition schedule. Vable twice. Look at this. Andy Reid, Vrabel twice, Harbaugh, Ben Johnson, Payton, Dan Campbell, Matt Laflur, do Ryan, Shawn McVey. So they're not drafting well. Brandon Bean's getting a ton of heat. they hire in the building and that usually doesn't work and this schedule. I mean, I think and I mean there's an argument that they'll be at a coaching deficit, even if Brady's solid in nine games, 10 games. Let's say it goes sideways in Buffalo. I mean, how maybe I'll just start it with this. I think the Heat's greater than Brandon Bean wants to acknowledge the media, the fans. I think Joe Brady realistically at Thanksgiving if they're struggling against this schedule, I think the Heat gets ratcheted up. That sounds crazy, right?

48:33 Yeah. I There's pressure on everybody because of the quarterback. I mean, let's make no mistake about this. I mean, I He's going to be 30 years old this off season, and there's a ton of pressure on everybody in that building to win while he's still in his prime. because of the amount of damage he's taken on because of his play style, right? Like you don't know whether or not he's going to be able to he hasn't every intention of playing till he's 40, but you don't know

49:00 like is it going to be the same at 34? Is it going to be the same at 36? And so what that does is it creates a situation where there's pressure on everyone in there to try to maximize what they have with Josh Allen in the here and the now. And so a lot of it for Joe Brady is going to be about getting a better return on investment from the players they've already paid. And this is the mistake that people make with them. People think like, okay, like the window is closing. It's not. It's whether or not this second group of players that they put around Josh Allen is as good as the first group. And so it's Greg Russo, it's Terrell Bernard, it's Kyle Shakir, it's Dalton Concincaid, it's Christian Benford, it's James Cook, it's all of these guys that now have contracts where you're looking at them saying, can they elevate? And that's going to be the pressure on Joe Brady and his staff, maximizing those guys. Now, I think

49:54 they're they are going to be aggressive and they could go out and sign somebody like Alec Pierce from the Colts who could be a difference maker for them. think you're going to see those sorts of things, but because of the way that Brandon Bean's built, they are locked in with a core that they have right now. And I think the question is going to be, can that core be good enough to compete for a championship? And the pressure now falls on the coaching staff to get the most out of those guys.

50:19 Um, I said yesterday to defend Drake May, one year ago from about, you know, today, Sam Darnold got sacked nine times and was dreadful against the Rams.

50:29 Yep. A year later, he's hoisting a trophy. Things change. Um, Drake May was awful,

50:37 but it's also Seattle's defense, but his inefficiency, he looked rattled, nervous, may have not been 100%. Do you think privately there are cons some concerns about not just the Super Bowl, he was a turnover mess for about a month at the end once they played good teams. The schedule was so easy. Once they ratcheted up defenses, he looked overwhelmed a lot. You think privately there's a little concern?

51:06 I would tell you privately what they're saying right now is about where he's at and that um you know I I think like what you saw in the playoffs was sort of reflective of some of the stuff that you saw on the college tape which was his first year at North Carolina. a lot of things. First year starting at North Carolina in 22. A lot of things were right around him

51:28 and he was great and looked like a number one pick in the draft and then the next year lost his offensive coordinator. I believe Phil Longo went to Wisconsin. Yeah.

51:37 Um he lost his best receiver. I think his best receiver that year was Josh DS. You'd have to look that up.

51:43 U there was an eligibility question with his his best receiver coming back the next year. That was Tz Walker. sort of all these moving parts and he started to have to take on more and sort of played some hero ball and that wound up costing him in the evaluation of some teams, right? And so like what you've seen over the course of his career is sort of a microcosm of that. Year one some ups, some downs. He had to carry that group because it wasn't a very good team. Year two, they get a lot better. the schedule contributes to it and you see a guy who can go out there and be really effective and efficient and play smart football and then when you get to the playoffs it flips, right? Where they went from either being talent equated or having a talent advantage to now they're in these playoff settings where the other team has better players than they do, you know, when you're talking about the

52:34 defense versus the offense. And you look at who they played in the playoffs, it was the Chargers, the Texans, the Broncos, and the Seahawks. That might be four of the five best defenses in football Colin.

52:44 Probably. And so, like, I think that that's part of it, you know, is like that there was more on Drake to carry the team in the playoffs. And I think you saw some of the bad habits come back. They're confident that he's a smart kid. They're confident that he is got the right sort of head on his shoulders for all of this, that he's resilient, and um that he's a hard enough worker to get through it. But I think what you saw in the playoffs was maybe a little bit more of a reflection of where he's truly at. Now, I voted for him for MVP. I think he did more to carry his team than anybody in football this year. But if you look at him and how he looked against that Seattle defense with all they throw at you versus how Matthew Stafford looked two weeks earlier, that's where I think you see a little bit of the learning curve, you know, and and look, he's 23 years old, so there's every reason to

53:34 believe he's going to get there, but it doesn't happen overnight. Good stuff. Monday morning quarterback Albert Brer as always, buddy. Great seeing you.

53:41 All right. Thanks, Colin. You bet. Yeah, it's um there's just you there's just no other way to put it. I said it last week. Can't be president until you're 35. Stafford's life experience, quarterback experience, snaps in the facility, all the film he's watched, all his starts, and Drake May. Drake May can't possibly be Matt Stafford. He can't possibly go to the line of scrimmage and look at that Rubik's cube and flip it. He just can't. He's just he's too young. He can't do it. That's why I thought Stafford was the MVP. Stafford goes to the line and knows the why. Drake May is still trying to figure out the what. The gap between them in knowledge pre- snap is it's the Grand Canyon. Uh that was my take anyway.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Herd Hierarchy: Seahawks, Chiefs, Bills, Bears, Patriots, Rams, Broncos | Colin Cowherd NFL"?

Colin Cowherd (Host), Greg Cosell (Guest).

What is "Herd Hierarchy: Seahawks, Chiefs, Bills, Bears, Patriots, Rams, Broncos | Colin Cowherd NFL" about?

The discussion focuses on the key factors influencing NFL team improvement after a season, emphasizing the critical role of coaching over player acquisitions through free agency and the draft. It highlights examples of successful coaching hires, underscoring that while talent is important, effective coaches significantly shape team performance and roster decisions.

What is mentioned in this The Herd with Colin Cowherd episode?

31 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including NFL, Sam Darnold, Super Bowl, Drake May, Greg Kosell, Seattle Seahawks. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Herd Hierarchy: Seahawks, Chiefs, Bills, Bears, Patriots, Rams, Broncos | Colin Cowherd NFL"?

The episode runs 54 min; the transcript is about 10,406 words in 127 timestamped sections.

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