Jimmy Johnson tells Colin Cowherd he is WRONG about Bill Belichick | THE HERD NFL

What this episode is about

Jimmy Johnson challenges Colin Cowherd's views on Hall of Fame voting for Bill Belichick, arguing that the criteria should be more accommodating for coaches due to their typically older age at retirement. He emphasizes the importance of inducting influential coaches promptly, contrasting it with the longer waiting period for players.

Key takeaways

• Bill Belichick's Hall of Fame snub highlights how media relationships can trump accolades in voting decisions.
• Coaches typically retire in their 60s, making a faster entry to the Hall essential—don’t let legends fade away!
• The five-year wait for players vs. instant induction for coaches? A curious disparity in the Hall of Fame rules.
• Accusations of Spygate could haunt Belichick—misguided, but the narrative looms larger than his achievements.
• Tensions with owners like Robert Kraft? It seems even the greatest coaches can't escape the politics of football.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Colin Cowherd (Host) · 9 min speaking
• Jimmy Johnson (Guest) · 6 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 3:00: Colin Cowherd, Joe Gibbs, Vince Lombardi, Bill Belichick
2. 3:00 – 6:00: Kansas City, Kansas, New England Patriots, Robert Kraft, Howard Mudd
3. 6:00 – 9:00: Colin Cowherd, Seth Wickersham
4. 9:00 – 12:00: Sam Darnold, Jimmy Johnson
5. 12:00 – 15:00: Bill Walsh, Don Shula, Joe Gibbs, Vince Lombardi

Notable quotes from "Jimmy Johnson tells Colin Cowherd he is WRONG about Bill Belichick | THE HERD NFL"

• Welcome to the Herd's official YouTube channel. Make sure to like and subscribe. Don't forget to check out the Colin Coward podcast, all of our NFL instant reactions, and more football.

  about Colin Cowherd · at 0:00

• Guest is somebody that waited far too long. One of the great coaches of all time, Jimmy Johnson, the Hall of Famer, Fox Sports, is now joining us live down, as in the Keys. So…

  about Jimmy Johnson · at 1:09

• You just don't know. some of them used the excuse of Spygate, which is totally ridiculous. every team in the league before they had the electronic communication from.

  about Bill Belichick · at 3:26

• The offensive guard would look over at Howard Mud on the sideline and he'd give him a signal whether or not it was going to be man coverage or zone coverage or a blitz etc so like I said we tried it.

  about Kansas City, Kansas · at 4:21

• Well, it could be because you for instance, there's a lot of media that said they want to have access to the New England Patriots.

  about New England Patriots · at 5:09

• Add some context here. have we run the Seth Wickersam bite yet? I don't think we have. Seth Wickerssham is a writer for ESPN. They did change the voting methodology this year.…

  about Seth Wickersham · at 7:22

• I'm going to focus on Darnold. Listen, he was he struggled with the Jets. He was 20 years old. He didn't have the right coach. It was manoverboard.

  about Sam Darnold · at 10:18

• Some let's add some context to it. Bill Walsh didn't get in first vote. Shula waited forever. Vince Lombardi didn't get in first vote. Joe Gibbs didn't get in. And Bellich's…

  about Vince Lombardi · at 14:35

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Bill Belichick — Person · Primary subject (referenced coach) · 1 mention · first at 1:00
  The segment centers on why Belichick did not make the Pro Football Hall of Fame on the first ballot and what factors (process, media relations, ownership dynamics, Spygate) may have influenced voting.
• Jimmy Johnson — Person · Main guest (Hall of Fame coach) · 2 mentions · first at 1:12
  Johnson argues Belichick should have been a first-ballot inductee, discusses how coaches are evaluated, and later pivots to QB evaluation (Sam Darnold) and Miami’s coaching staff.
• Colin Cowherd — Person · Host / interviewer · 3 mentions · first at 0:00
  Cowherd frames the debate about Hall of Fame voting norms and interviews Jimmy Johnson, pushing on possible reasons Belichick was not selected first ballot.
• Robert Kraft — Person · Referenced stakeholder (owner influence theory) · 2 mentions · first at 2:25
  Raised as a possible behind-the-scenes influence on Belichick’s Hall of Fame outcome due to alleged tension and owner/media access dynamics.
  Well, who's going to give him access?
• Vince Lombardi — Person · Historical comparison (referenced coach) · 3 mentions · first at 0:47
  Cited as another legendary coach who did not get inducted on the first vote, supporting the host’s “context” argument about Hall of Fame processes.
• Joe Gibbs — Person · Historical comparison (referenced coach) · 3 mentions · first at 0:50
  Mentioned as a coach with exceptional achievements who still did not get in immediately, reinforcing the discussion about Hall of Fame voting inconsistency.
  Most innovative coach ever, did not get in the first time he was eligible. Vince Lombardi didn't. And Joe Gibbs, who won three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks…
• Bill Walsh — Person · Historical comparison (referenced coach) · 2 mentions · first at 0:42
  Used as precedent that even iconic/innovative coaches did not necessarily get inducted on their first eligibility, to contextualize Belichick’s situation.
  For the record, Bill Walsh, arguably the most innovative coach ever, did not get in the first time he was eligible. Vince Lombardi didn't. And Joe Gibbs, who won three Super Bowls with three different.
• Seth Wickersham — Person · Referenced expert (reporter/commentator) · 1 mention · first at 7:26
  Provides reporting/analysis on Belichick’s expectations and how the revised Hall of Fame voting process may have produced a surprising result.
• Don Shula — Person · Historical comparison (referenced coach) · 1 mention · first at 14:37
  Used as an example that even the winningest coach had to wait under older rules, contrasting with the newer coach-eligibility timeline.
  Bellich should get in, but let's add some let's add some context to it. Bill Walsh didn't get in first vote. Shula waited forever. Vince Lombardi didn't get in first vote. Joe…
• Sam Darnold — Person · Secondary discussion subject (player evaluation) · 3 mentions · first at 10:18
  Used as a case study in development and context: early struggles, turnover reduction, and improved performance with better team/coaching environment.
• Mario Cristobal — Person · Referenced coach (college football) · 1 mention · first at 12:34
  Discussed as a coach whose reputation is evolving from elite recruiter to improved game/situational coach, used as an example that coaches can grow like players.
  Like his energy. Man, he can build a program. I watched them this year and my take on Mario is he grew as a coach. Now, a lot of it is that Dline and that O line's good, but…
• Troy Aikman — Person · Referenced example (great QB supporting coach legacy) · 4 mentions
  Mentioned to rebut the idea that Belichick’s success should be discounted due to having a great quarterback—many Hall of Fame coaches had elite QBs.
• Howard Mudd — Person · Referenced coach (example in Spygate/signals discussion) · 1 mention · first at 3:56
  Appears in an anecdote about historical signal-stealing practices, used to argue Spygate is an overblown rationale for penalizing Belichick’s legacy.
  The offensive guard would look over at Howard Mud on the sideline and he'd give him a signal whether or not it was going to be man coverage or zone coverage or a blitz etc so like I said we tried it.
• Cory Heatherton — Person · Referenced assistant coach (credited for defense) · 1 mention · first at 13:20
  Cited as a key assistant who improved Miami’s defense, supporting the point that championship-level success depends on staff quality, not just the head coach.
  Two things, not only has he gotten better as a head coach, he's got some outstanding assistants. Cory Heatherton, there as a defensive coordinator did a great job with that…

Companies & orgs

• New England Patriots — Company · Business focus · 1 mention · first at 5:16
  Discussed in the context of Bill Belichick's coaching career and his relationship with the team's owner, Robert Kraft.

Places & events

• Kansas City, Kansas — Place · Setting · 2 mentions · first at 3:50
  Mentioned in the context of a story about stealing opponent's signals in football, highlighting a tactic used by Kansas City.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Welcome to the Herd's official YouTube channel. Make sure to like and subscribe. Don't forget to check out the Colin Coward podcast, all of our NFL instant reactions, and more football content. Well, it's been the story of the day, Bill Bich, who will get into the Hall of Fame, but it shocked a lot of people that he did not get in. Now, we've talked about this today. The strange thing about Hall of Fame voting is they just tweaked the voting. So now coaches can get in one year after they leave the sport. Players, doesn't matter if you're the greatest player in the world, you got to wait 5 years. But but we said earlier, Don Schul is the winningest coach ever. He had to wait five years.

0:42 For the record, Bill Walsh, arguably the most innovative coach ever, did not get in the first time he was eligible. Vince Lombardi didn't. And Joe Gibbs, who won three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks, did not. But there's a sense with Bellich, I mean, come on, he's got this cache of rings. And again, I would have voted him in. I get it. But my argument is when you start looking at people who didn't get in and they had to wait 5 years to begin with. Our next guest is somebody that waited far too long. One of the great coaches of all time, Jimmy Johnson, the Hall of Famer, Fox Sports, is now joining us live down, as you know, in the Keys. So listen, I would have voted him in, but my take is when a Lombardi or a Walsh or a a Joe Gibbs or a Jimmy Johnson or a Parcels who won a Super Bowl with Jeff Hostettler and Sims. Can you not argue, well, those guys had to wait. Why can't Bill? Isn't that a legit argument?

1:40 No, it's not. You're completely wrong, Colin, because uh coaches are a lot older than players, and you'd like to get the coach in before he's dead, you know, and so you know, because of the age of coaches, uh it's not like, you know, they're going to retire, uh, you know, when they're 31. They're going to retire when they're 65. And so because of the difference in the age, the coaches really need to go in, you know, really before they get to the point to where they can't enjoy it.

2:13 You know, um, when you were elected into the Hall of Fame, it was live on Fox TV and you were not only emotional, so was everybody that works with you because you've been at Fox, you've ingratiated yourself to a lot of people. Listen, Bill doesn't get along with the crafts. I mean, he's had he's he never gotten along with the media. Uh, I know that shouldn't matter, but stuff like that in life does matter. What about the whole push back that, you know, Bill's going to be in in a year, but you know, he poked the media in the ribs and some of those guys vote and he just shut them off and built up walls. What about that argument?

2:47 Well, I don't even think I've had three hours sleep ever since the news came out last night because it's so wrong. You know, look at the accolades. You know, look at all the division wins. Look at eight Super Bowls, six of them as a head coach. uh second all-time winningest coach in history. Uh and so I'm not going to talk about the accolades. I'm just gonna say, okay, why did he not go in? I'm I'm searching my own mind. Why did he not go in? Did Craft because him and Craft are at odds at one another? Did they he have an influence? Did some of the media have an influence because he didn't give him an interview. He wasn't the most pleasant to the media back when he coached.

3:26 Uh you just don't know. You know, some of them used the excuse of Spygate, which is totally ridiculous. Um, every every team in the league before they had the electronic communication from sideline to the field, every team in the league tried to steal the opponent's signals, whether or not it be an assistant coach studying the opponent on how he was signing, whether or not they're doing one thing. I we actually picked it up from Kansas City. Howard Mud was a great offensive line coach and they had some outstanding teams, but he was at Kansas City and a scout told us says, "Here's how we do it. You know, we actually film the opponent's uh signal caller, then we match it up with the film with their signals." And so I said, "Hey, that's a great idea." We tried doing it. We were horrible at it. Uh it really took up too much time because it's only got a few seconds that you can get it in. But we watched Kansas City.

4:21 the offensive guard would look over at Howard Mud on the sideline and he'd give him a signal whether or not it was going to be man coverage or zone coverage or a blitz etc etc so like I said we tried it you know we didn't do very good at it we stopped doing it after a couple of weeks but you know teams have been trying this you know ever since uh you know they had signals before they did the electronic communication

4:45 there are you're not the only person that thinks Robert Craft uh did not want to go in with Bellich and there's Yeah. I mean, listen, you know better than anybody. Owners want to get their way. Owners uh are very close with Roger Goodell because they're his boss. And I mean, do you think around the league people in your space, legendary coaches think it craft has a lot to do with this?

5:09 Well, it could be because you you know, for instance, there's a lot of media that said they want to have access to the New England Patriots. Well, who's going to give him access? Bob Craft. Uh, and so if there is some tension between Bellich and Craft and maybe Craft, you know, he he wants to go in before Bellich goes in. Uh, and I don't know this for a fact. I mean, there are a lot of different factors, but for some reason,

5:38 you know, these people, 10 or 11 or 12 voters did not vote for Bellich. with his accolades and all of the championships, he deserved to go in first ballot, you know, unanimously and with no one voting against him.

5:55 Um, do you think he's bothered by it? I think it hurts him. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, Colin, we're all we're all bothered by it. You know, when you work as hard as coaches work, uh, they're proud of what they accomplished, you know, and I'm Bill's proud of what he accomplished at New England. Yeah, I mean, yeah, he had a great quarterback, but how many pro Hall of Fame coaches didn't have a great quarterback? I had Troy Aman, you know, null had Terry Bradshaw. Uh Walsh had, you know, Joel Montana, you know, on and on. And and so you can't use that excuse. And see, the other thing too, just knowing Bill personally, yeah, I don't know of a single person, yourself included, anybody that knows the history of the NFL like Bill Bich. Anybody that ever watched him on TV picking the top hundred players in the history of the NFL could see the knowledge that he has about the league. He loves the NFL. He loves the history of the NFL. And you

6:55 know, it's got to hurt him that he didn't go first. I was with him at the national championship game and I walked away and he said, "I I hope to see you at the in the hall this year." And you know, I thought it was just going to be a slam dunk. And so I chartered a plane. I was gonna fly a jet up to Canton to see him go in. Well, I canled that flight. I'm not going.

7:15 Yeah. Yeah. Again, I'd have voted him in. I've spent today saying we can all vent that he didn't get in, but let's add some context here. Um, have we run the Seth Wickersam bite yet? I don't think we have. Seth Wickerssham is a writer for ESPN. They did change the voting methodology this year. Um, and I which is weird and I think all Hall of Fames get a little too personal and petty. So, here's Seth Wickersam. great writer on Bellich and the voting process.

7:42 Bichc was expecting that he was going to get 49 votes like privately. That was his expectation that he would get 49 votes and obviously he didn't come close to 40. And I think that that's pretty interesting. Um and again how that happened is really difficult. Like it wasn't like the Hall of Fame wanted us to break this story yesterday. They didn't. And a lot of the voters didn't know that Bellich hadn't gotten in. You see a lot of their reactions on social media and they were blowing up Don and I's phones for sure saying like this is an embarrassment for all of us. We had no idea that Bellich didn't get in.

8:16 Yeah. Um well he will I think you know because of the process you know they had you know like five candidates and they picked three of the five.

8:27 Um well some of the media might have said well it's a slam dunk that Bill's going in.

8:33 That's right. So, I'm gonna vote for so and so uh to help him get in because I know Bill's going in.

8:40 Yeah. And so, it could have been the process of picking the Hall of Fame candidates, but that's still no excuse. You pick the best, you know, available. Hey, listen. I'm a coach, Colin, and you know, if a player doesn't go in, hey, I live with it. Okay, then you'll get a chance next year. But I know how great a coach Bill Bich is. What?

9:04 And for him not to go in first ballot is wrong. What What What is his greatest asset as a coach when you go fishing with him? What's the one thing you just think to yourself? Man, he's different.

9:16 I'll give you the best and the worst. The best thing, he is a great situation coach. He's a great fundamental coach. He coaches all phases, special teams, offense, defense. He's a great game day coach. He's a great game plan coach to go ahead and take away what the opponent does best and uh, you know, take advantage of that. He does all of those things. That's what he's good at.

9:43 Yeah. You know, personnel wise, hey, you could take him or leave him. He did pretty good with some of the veterans. Some of his draft picks you're going to have questions about. But as a coach, as a pure coach, he's the best I've ever known.

9:59 Wow. There we go. See, we did we did 12 minutes here uh uh on Bellich, who again, I would have voted for him, but I do think it's interesting to just kind of contextualize all this stuff. Um, let me ask you one thing about the Super Bowl because you've been in this thing and you know the weight. I'm going to focus on Darnold. Listen, he was he was he struggled with the Jets. He was 20 years old. He didn't have the right coach. It was manoverboard. Um, are you surprised? Did you think he'd go toe-to-toe and play his best game or is or and you were a great You're one of the coaches. You may be the best ever at this. You were a great personnel coach. You you could have just said, "I don't need a GM. I'm going to draft." There's maybe only two or three coaches ever that could do that. So, I'm interested in your perspective on Darnold. I thought he was too damn talented not to win some games. He was

10:52 too talented. Did you or were you shocked by what he did? I I agree with you 100%. Coming out of college there at SC, you know, everybody says, "Okay, if you can cut his turnovers down, this guy can be a great great quarterback." Uh, two things happened for him when Seattle. Uh, I think the experience of what he went through with the Jets, with Carolina, on and on, that experience, you know, taught him to be more protective with the football. Yeah.

11:25 Uh the second thing, he's part of a great team. He's got a great defensive team. He doesn't have to carry that team on his shoulders. He at Carolina, he had to carry that football team. He couldn't do it because he turned it over. Now he knows he's got a great defense.

11:42 He knows that he can be patient, take his time, take the checkdowns, you know, throw it here every now and then, take a shot, you know, down the field. Uh, so I think the experience that he had and the team that he's with and the coaching that he's getting allowed him to be a great player. And hey, uh, Seattle right now, they look like the favorite in the Super Bowl.

12:06 Oh, they're good. Hey, I've got to mention the Miami Hurricanes. It's interesting.

12:11 Oh, boy. So, um, they are so close. So Mario Crystal Ballal's reputation forever was great recruiter, but we had sort of labeled him as I don't know if I love him as a game coach, situational coach, but man, I like his energy. Man, he can build a program. Um, I watched them this year and my take on Mario is he grew as a coach. Now, a lot of it is that Dline and that O line's good, but coaches have a right to grow, too. Not just Sam Darnold and players. Um, your thoughts on what Mario did? Because at Oregon, the take was he doesn't win big games, but he's a hell of a recruiter. I don't know. I watched them in close games this year. I thought he was I thought he really grew as a coach.

12:57 Well, I think he grew as a coach. He got a lot better. And you're you're right. He's a great recruiter. We just signed, you know, the top quarterback, top transfer portal out of Duke here just recently and the receiver and got one of the top pass rushers from Missouri. So, we've got the players. Uh, I think the two things, not only has he gotten better as a head coach, he's got some outstanding assistants. Cory Heatherton, you know, there as a defensive coordinator did a great job with that defense. If we' have had that defense a year ago when we had Cam Ward, nobody would have come close to us. Yeah. And and the other thing is often Shan Dawson's an outstanding offensive coach.

13:37 So, he's got some outstanding assistant coaches as well. you know, and hey, the reason I went into the Hall of Fame, I had great players and I had great assistant coaches. Uh, and and so you you got to if you're going to win championships, it can't be one individual. There's a lot of people involved in that.

13:56 Yeah. I mean, Dave Wanat, you know, if you don't have Wanstat, Uncle Dave, Dave was important to me. North Turner was important to me. Yeah.

14:07 Troy Aman did a nice little job. Hey, I mean, so if you're going to win a championship, it can't be one individual. You got to have a team.

14:18 Great stuff, coach. As always, it's wonderful seeing you. I love you're fighting for Bellich. You're not sleeping. And I love that support and loyalty. Thanks.

14:27 All right, Colin. Good talking with you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, listen, I it was I was taking the train in today, and my takeaway is I could just vent that Bellich should get in, but let's add some let's add some context to it. Bill Walsh didn't get in first vote. Shula waited forever. Vince Lombardi didn't get in first vote. Joe Gibbs didn't get in. And Bellich's winning percentage without Brady is Jerry Glennville had a higher winning percentage. Okay. So, my take on this is yeah, of course I would have vote Bill in. But I I I'm not I don't I I would say I've got a lot of faults. I'm not a real grudge holder. I don't give a rip. I mean, I people that don't like me, it makes me laugh. It's like, okay, whatever. Yeah. I I just don't I'm not a grudge holder. I'm not terribly petty. Uh that's just not my personality. some people, you know, they they use that as jet fuel. That's not my thing. So, but I do think when you start

15:14 looking at I I I said this earlier is that in life a lot of decisions are made when you're not in the room and Bill alienated a lot of people and you know, you got to you got to have self-awareness and know if I want to get into the Hall of Fame, I probably shouldn't go out of my way to mock and humiliate people who could vote for me. They will. I'll sleep on the couch for a year. He's going to get in obviously.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Jimmy Johnson tells Colin Cowherd he is WRONG about Bill Belichick | THE HERD NFL"?

Colin Cowherd (Host), Jimmy Johnson (Guest).

What is "Jimmy Johnson tells Colin Cowherd he is WRONG about Bill Belichick | THE HERD NFL" about?

Jimmy Johnson challenges Colin Cowherd's views on Hall of Fame voting for Bill Belichick, arguing that the criteria should be more accommodating for coaches due to their typically older age at retirement. He emphasizes the importance of inducting influential coaches promptly, contrasting it with the longer waiting period for players.

What is mentioned in this The Herd with Colin Cowherd episode?

16 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Bill Belichick, Jimmy Johnson, Colin Cowherd, New England Patriots, Robert Kraft, Vince Lombardi. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Jimmy Johnson tells Colin Cowherd he is WRONG about Bill Belichick | THE HERD NFL"?

The episode runs 16 min; the transcript is about 3,010 words in 34 timestamped sections.

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