Rodgers-McCarthy REUNION is GOOD for Steelers + Nix & Payton Broncos DRAMA | Colin Cowherd: HERD NFL

What this episode is about

The discussion focuses on the recent hiring of offensive line coach James Campen by Mike McCarthy for the Steelers, highlighting the potential benefits of this reunion in revitalizing Pittsburgh's offense. Additionally, it examines the dynamics of coaching legacy and perception, comparing McCarthy's achievements to those of Pete Carroll, ultimately suggesting that McCarthy is an underrated coach despite public sentiment.

Key takeaways

• In the tech arena, marketing may conquer functionality; iPhones sell dreams while Androids deliver reality.
• Mike McCarthy's offensive prowess parallels hidden cinematic gems—both excel, yet stay in the shadows of fame.
• Like Android's tech edge, McCarthy's coaching mastery often goes uncelebrated; yet, both deliver results worth noting.
• Branding shapes perception; Mike McCarthy and Pete Carroll's records reveal a league where narrative trumps statistics.
• Transformations take time; McCarthy’s past with Favre hints at potential to revitalize Pittsburgh's offense with the right pieces.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Colin Cowherd (Host) · 34 min speaking
• Tyler Dunn (Guest) · 9 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: Mike McCarthy, Aaron Rodgers, Steven Soderbergh, Colin Cowherd
2. 5:00 – 10:00: Hard Rock Bet, Mike McCarthy, John Harbaugh, Lamar Jackson
3. 10:00 – 15:00: Miami Dolphins
4. 15:00 – 20:00: Zbiotics, Tyler Dunn, Buffalo Bills, Green Bay Packers
5. 20:00 – 25:00: Mike McCarthy, Ian O'Connor
6. 25:00 – 30:00: DJ McCarthy, Quacy Adopo Mensah
7. 30:00 – 35:00: Quacy Adopo Mensah, DJ McCarthy, Tyler Dunn
8. 35:00 – 40:00: Lamar Jackson, John Harbaugh
9. 40:00 – 43:00: Lamar Jackson

Notable quotes from "Rodgers-McCarthy REUNION is GOOD for Steelers + Nix & Payton Broncos DRAMA | Colin Cowherd: HERD NFL"

• Welcome to the Herds official YouTube channel. Make sure to like and subscribe. Don't forget to check out the Colin Coward podcast, all of our NFL instant reactions, and more…

  about Colin Cowherd · at 0:00

• Their relationship is better now than it ever was when they were together in Green Bay. And Rogers said to me, Listen, we did butttheads, but at the end of the day, we lit it up for a lot.

  about Aaron Rodgers · at 2:51

• Coordinator. I'm Oh, that will work for sure. Now the Pittsburgh thing is grown on me. Today's show brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet, Florida Sportsbook.…

  about Hard Rock Bet · at 5:12

• To fall off. They've already gotten the offensive line coach that Aaron likes and Mike likes. Again, I feel like you're getting competency. Jesse Mentor and Mike McCarthy very high floor.

  about Mike McCarthy · at 9:36

• Heading to a watch party, I want to be fully present and still feel good in the morning. For me, that means planning ahead, especially if I want to have a few drinks. My simple…

  about Zbiotics · at 17:03

• So you also covered for years Mike McCarthy, Aaron Rogers, I mean you know this relationship very well. Ian O' Conor, a very established guy yesterday said, Mike actually took.

  about Tyler Dunn · at 21:32

• Breaking news this week, but this one is huge. Colin, this just went down within the last hour. The Minnesota Vikings have fired their GM, Quacy Adopo Mensah.

  about Quacy Adopo Mensah · at 31:22

• So, Baltimore now the story about Jesse Mentor, the cap hit for Lamar. Lamar wants to be the highest paid quarterback in the league. Well, he's not the best quarterback in the…

  about Lamar Jackson · at 37:59

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Colin Cowherd — Person · Host / main speaker · 1 mention · first at 0:00
  Drives the episode’s takes and analogies (Android vs iPhone) while evaluating NFL coaching hires and QB/coach dynamics.
• Mike McCarthy — Person · Primary referenced coach / comparison anchor · 11 mentions · first at 1:01
  Central subject of Cowherd’s argument that McCarthy is underrated due to branding/marketing, with discussion of his QB development history and fit with Pittsburgh.
• Tyler Dunn — Person · Main guest (NFL writer) · 3 mentions · first at 18:29
  Provides reporting and insider context on Bills coaching change, McCarthy/Rodgers history, Bears dysfunction series, and Vikings GM firing.
• Aaron Rodgers — Person · Referenced star quarterback / relationship case study · 2 mentions · first at 1:06
  Used to illustrate McCarthy’s QB-development impact and the volatility of coach-QB relationships; also framed as an aging QB with limited options.
• Lamar Jackson — Person · Referenced elite quarterback / roster-building constraint example · 5 mentions · first at 9:14
  Appears in discussion of Jesse Minter’s new job and how QB cap hits constrain roster construction and Super Bowl odds.
• John Harbaugh — Person · Benchmark coach / comparison point · 4 mentions · first at 4:26
  Serves as a prestige baseline for coaching competence and resume comparisons; also referenced in cap-hit/Super Bowl window discussion with Lamar.
  He's not the best quarterback in the league. So, that is going to limit the roster. John Harbaugh got Lamar Jackson on a rookie contract and he struggled to get him to a Super Bowl. He struggled to get him to play well in the postseason.
• Quacy Adopo Mensah — Person · Referenced executive (GM firing news) · 4 mentions · first at 28:14
  Central to the breaking-news segment: Vikings firing their GM; discussed as analytics-driven with draft scrutiny and tension narratives.
• DJ McCarthy — Person · Referenced young QB / draft decision flashpoint · 6 mentions · first at 27:26
  Used in the Vikings GM-firing discussion as a debated evaluation and a symbol of organizational plan confusion vs. Sam Darnold’s success.
  Years. This past draft was a total disaster. They basically added no value anywhere. the JJ McCarthy pick, you've scrutinized it heavily. U Jordan Addison has been good, but he's been getting in some trouble off the field.
• Steven Soderbergh — Person · Analogy reference (underrated excellence) · 2 mentions · first at 3:42
  Cowherd uses Soderbergh as a metaphor for McCarthy: high-quality work, less cultural “branding” recognition than peers.
  Brochovich, Sex Lives and Video Tape, Traffic. It's one of my 10 15 favorite movies of all time. He doesn't get mentioned a lot. He's got one Oscar.
• Ian O'Connor — Person · Referenced author / credibility source · 1 mention · first at 22:00
  Cited to support claims about Rodgers–McCarthy relationship and McCarthy’s role in changing Rodgers’ mechanics and style.
  And Ian said Mike loosened him up. Well, he became kind of the loosest of all the quarterbacks. McCarthy Aaron take me through the journey you had with them. Do you think they can say you know.
• James Campen — Person · Referenced assistant coach (OL coach) / supporting evidence · 1 mention · first at 1:03
  Mentioned as a hire tied to McCarthy and Rodgers, used to argue the Pittsburgh offense is being built around familiar trusted coaching.
  IPhones got better branding. And I saw a story this morning, late yesterday actually, that Mike McCarthy of the Steelers hired his old offensive line coach, James Campen, who…
• Brett Favre — Person · Historical QB example · 1 mention · first at 2:13
  Used as evidence that McCarthy can rehabilitate/upgrade veteran QB play (Favre’s late-career resurgence in Green Bay).
  Brett Favre was like 36 years old, led the league in interceptions. Packers were bad. They hired Mike McCarthy. What happened? Favre was back to being a Pro Bowler and I think…

Companies & orgs

• Buffalo Bills — Company · Referenced team · 1 mention · first at 18:47
  Discussed in the context of their coaching changes and performance in the NFL.
  Zero career playoff wins, same number as you and I. Okay, let's move on to the next story and that's Joe Brady in Buffalo. We're going to talk about him. One last time, Joe…
• Miami Dolphins — Company · Referenced team · 1 mention · first at 11:19
  Discussed regarding their coaching situation and quarterback challenges.
  Of the year and won a playoff game. Not a lot of people do that in Cleveland. and my the third one and I just Jeff Halfley Dolphins. They got to get a quarterback and this is…
• Green Bay Packers — Company · Referenced team · 1 mention · first at 18:47
  Mentioned in relation to Mike McCarthy's coaching history and Aaron Rodgers' development.
  And remember this, Mike McCarthy when he joined Green Bay, you remember Brett Favre was like 36 years old, led the league in interceptions. Packers were bad. They hired Mike McCarthy. What.

Sponsors

• Hard Rock Bet — Product · Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at 5:18
  Presenting sponsor of the show, promoting sports betting services and a big game bonus party.
• Zbiotics — Product · Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at 17:13
  Promoted as a pre-alcohol probiotic drink to prevent rough mornings after drinking.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Welcome to the Herds official YouTube channel. Make sure to like and subscribe. Don't forget to check out the Colin Coward podcast, all of our NFL instant reactions, and more football content. I didn't know what I'm about to tell you, but I I have a couple of young hipsters on the the staff, and they informed me this morning, and I thought this had a sports connection, that the Android phone actually has better technology than the Apple iPhone. But the Apple iPhone has better marketing and branding. And what what'll happen is, you know, this happens in tech.

0:32 Apple will uh you know, maybe borrow a couple of the Android widget features. And a couple years later, YOU'LL BE LIKE, "OH MAN, Apple's phone's the best." And Android users are like, "Yeah, we've been doing that stuff. We've been doing that stuff years ago." So I was told, "Hey, don't shoot the messenger. The hipsters tell me that Android phones have better u widgets, gadgets, features than the iPhone. iPhones got better branding. And I saw a story this morning, late yesterday actually, that Mike McCarthy of the Steelers hired his old offensive line coach, uh, James Campen, who Aaron Rogers loves, to go with him to Pittsburgh. They're trying to transform this offense. And I think a lot of Mike McCarthy's problem like Android is the marketing and branding. I mean, you hear people say Pete Carol, he'll get Hall of Fame votes. Well, Mike McCarthy has the same playoff record as Pete Carol and a

1:30 better regular season record. And McCarthy's only been canned once. Pete's adding them up. I mean, Mike McCarthy 12 times has had a top 10 scoring offense. Pete Carol doesn't have that. So, he is a good coach. There's no question. and he wins a lot of games and his team score a lot of points. So, I think hearing this news, I said this, it feels a little uninspiring. He's older. He's a Pittsburgh guy, but I think he's a good coach. And Pittsburgh did just go 10 and seven with an organization and a head coach that felt kind of the last six, seven years tonedeaf to offense.

2:10 And remember this, Mike McCarthy when he joined Green Bay, you remember Brett Favre was like 36 years old, led the league in interceptions. Packers were bad. They hired Mike McCarthy. What happened? Favre was back to being a Pro Bowler and I think he made the NFC Championship. So, it's like Mike McCarthy makes quarterbacks better. In fact, Ian O' Conor who wrote a book, a great book on Aaron Rogers, Out of the Darkness. Must read. The first couple chapters are his family's history. Aaron's family's history is amazing. Um, he says when he did all this homework for the book, he says Aaron Rogers and Mike McCarthy, don't believe it. It'll work.

2:51 Their relationship is better now than it ever was when they were together in Green Bay. And Rogers said to me, "Listen, we did butttheads, but at the end of the day, we lit it up for a lot of years." And what uh people forget is Mike McCarthy changed Aaron Rogers entire style of play. when he got him out of Cal, he was very robotic. He had the ball back at his ear hole and McCarthy loosened him up and made him a more athletic player and really helped develop him into an all-time great and never gets any credit for that. So, what is the ceiling for this partnership?

3:22 Probably 11 and six at best, winning a playoff game. Okay, they were 10 and seven last year. Uh, and they weren't great offensively, but they won the division and they'll be better offensively. Yeah, it's just certain. The android, Mike McCarthy. I always said Steven Soderberg is a director in Hollywood. I love all his films. Delimey, Oceans 11, Aaron Brochovich, Sex Lives and Video Tape, Traffic. It's one of my 10 15 favorite movies of all time. He doesn't get mentioned a lot. He's got one Oscar. Mike McCarthy's got one Super Bowl trophy. Like some people, and I don't know why it necessarily is. I just watched Black Bag, Steven Soderberg. I don't go to the theater anymore unless it's Mission Impossible. I do not go to the theater. I literally was sitting on my couch. The staff laughed at me. I looked, oh, Stephen Soderberg's got a new movie. Boom. Went and watched it. I was like, came back. I'm like, it's the

4:19 best movie I've seen of the year. Black Bag. Loved it. Spy thriller. Unbelievable. So, like I I don't think it's the as good as Jim John Harbaugh may be to the Giants, but McCarthy's record and John Harbaugh's resume. They look like they're mirror images of one another. We think this of Harbaugh and then Mike McCarthy's like, I don't know. I don't know if it works. You know, the Harbaugh name is obviously very powerful and it should be, but um when I saw the hiring of the Green Bay offensive line coach that Aaron loved and McCarthy loved, I'm like, "Okay, here's the transition to finally getting an offensive coordinator that the quarterback of the Pittsburgh Steelers loves and has worked with." It's like, "Oh, that's a real thing. That's a real thing." When Robert Solid got the job with the Titans, it's even better that Brian Dables is the offensive coordinator. I'm like, "Oh, that will

5:14 work for sure." Now the Pittsburgh thing is grown on me. Today's show brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet, Florida Sportsbook. The big game matchup is set. Patriots Seahawks. Hard Rock Bet going to be a lot of different ways. You can get it on next Sunday's action. Uh if you haven't signed up with Hard Rock Bet, never been a better time. This week, launching a brand new welcome offer for new customers. Plus, Hard Rock Bet is kicking off its $7 million Big Game bonus party available to all users.

5:46 You're definitely not going to want to miss that. And if you're in Florida or Jersey, the Big Game Energy doesn't just live exclusively on the app. Head to Hard Rock Casino property for drawings, giveaways, all the excitement leading up to kickoff. So, Hard Rock Bet also offers new promos every day. So, if you're listening to this later, just open up the app and check out what you got any day of the week. That's Hard Rock Bet. Download the Hard Rock Bet app and make your first deposit today.

6:15 The Raiders don't have a coach. I think it's going to be Clint Kubak after Sunday. And uh and the Arizona Cardinals, who are uh kind of a turbulent mess, don't have a coach, and I don't know where they're going. And I I kind of look uh usually I do grades on coaches. I I don't know. I I Here's all the hires. I would say this. Here's my confidence. I'll give you my confidence meter on the coaching hire so far. Let's start. I am supremely confident on John Harbaugh with the New York Giants that it will work to some level. First of all, the Giants were 1 and seven in one score games. Their Dline is to me top 10 in the NFL. Scataboo and Jackson Dart were super productive as rookies.

7:05 Um, it's a winnable division to me. Uh, the Eagles regressed. We don't know about their new OC. Commanders are a bit of a mess right now. Cross your fingers on Jaden Daniels health. Cliff Kingsbury left. Um, Harbaugh's been 500 or better in 15 of his 18 seasons. I would say I am supremely confident that John Harbaugh. I'm not promising Super Bowls, but I think they're going to vive for the division uh title next year. I think they're going to be a very good 8 n 10 win team. I really do. Okay. So, I'm supremely confident in that. I am confident in Kevin Stfansky within two years getting Atlanta right. First of all, he's a really smart guy. He's an offensive coach, stable ownership. I think their O line is really solid, above average. Uh Michael Pennock, Bejian Robinson, Drake London, Kyle Pittz had his moments last year. Um, I think again Arthur Blank, uh, Matt Ryan, I'm interested to see his work inside

8:05 the organization. Another smart guy. I think within two years, I am confident that he'll get them humming. Very winnable division. Also, Titans, Robert Salah, I'm very confident in one year they will turn it around because they have a healthy quarterback. Cam Ward. I think Brian Dable's a great hire at OC. Uh, Solid did it with smoke and mirrors defensively. His teams play hard and fast and are a little cocky. Um, they have the most cap space in the NFL. So, I am supremely confident on the Harbaugh Giants hire. I am confident on the Robert Salah and Kevin Stfansky hires.

8:50 Now, I would go down to competent Jesse Mentor with a good organization. That is a competency hire. I do not know he's never been a head coach. I have no idea. It's the fourth head coach in the Ravens history. They don't they don't move around a lot. They don't make a lot of mistakes. He's a sharp young guy. Last four years he's been with Harbaugh. Crushed it at Michigan. Crushed it. But I don't know. They have Lamar Jackson. Excellent ownership. They had six Pro Bowlers. If nothing else, he's a very competent coach.

9:25 And I feel that way about Mike McCarthy. I think he's the offensive version of of Mike Tomlin, but Mike Tomlin just finished 10 and seven with a 42-y old quarterback and won the division. Mike McCarthy is competent. They're not going to fall off. They've already gotten the offensive line coach that Aaron likes and Mike likes. Again, I I feel like you're getting competency. Jesse Mentor and Mike McCarthy very very high floor. And then let's go to this C word concerned. Let's start with Joe Brady with the Bills. He's young. Um I mean Brian Dable statistically was a little better with Ken Dorsy on the offense than Joe Brady. Um he did a good job with Joe Burrow and LSU. He's done a good job with Josh Allen. I have no idea. Josh Allen covers up a lot of deficiencies. I'm sorry. He just does. I I don't know. I don't. And also, it's going to be harder for him than it's was for McDermott because Josh Allen's cap

10:29 hit goes up. Like 20 million a year. Well, that's that just makes it tougher. That's one less high-end player. Uh the other one I'm concerned about, and I think this is pretty obvious, Todd Monkin with the Browns. Was he on anybody else's coaching radar? uh that whole coaching search I everybody thought it was Jim Schwarz and I think they thought Jim Schwarz would hang around if they didn't hire him and Jim Schwarz said no Jim Schwarz for the record probably goes with Kyle Shanahan in San Francisco and he's going to crush um I I have no idea. I mean again he was nobody's top choice. The organization always feels like they can't figure out quarterback. Uh they let Stfansky go who's a two-time coach of the year and won a playoff game. Not a lot of people do that in Cleveland. Uh and my the third one and I just Jeff Halfley Dolphins. They got to get a quarterback and this is not a good draft

11:23 for quarterback. So Halfley's supposed to be a sharp guy. It could work. Uh did a solid job at BC. I thought he did a really nice job in Green Bay, but I've never seen him as an NFL head coach. Uh, Steven Ross. I mean, they they got rid of the GM. Um, and Mike McDaniel. I The GM I thought was a bigger issue. I I don't know. I mean, it's it's Miami's hired a lot of coaches. So, a a lot of coaches. So, supremely confident. Confident. Certainly competent. Concerned. Jesse Mentor was on our show this week. He he he says, "Number one, I've got to establish my own culture.

12:08 I think we're going to create an identity of of a really well-connected team that's tough and physical, but also that's very innovative. We want to be really forward thinking schematically in all three phases. And I think there's going to be a lot of excitement when the guys come back and really feel like uh we're headed in the right direction.

12:25 Maybe it's because I like conflict. I'm okay with it. Uh I don't know why it is, but a lot of times I defend people. I remember when Pton Manning got into a really ugly argument with Jeff Saturday and I worked at the other place at the time and I remember saying, "You got to resign Saturday. Somebody's got to push back on Payton Manning." We had the famous Josh McDaniel, Tom Brady blow up on the sidelines and I'm like, "Well, Brady's got an ego." No, Brady's competitive and so is Josh McDaniels who I talked to this morning. Like these guys are fighters. They're competitive.

13:02 They're intense. They're talented. Like everybody's freaking out about like Bo Nicks and Shawn Payeyton. Now Shawn sometimes leads with his chin and not everybody likes him and I didn't love him talking about Bo Nick's injury and Bo Nicks fired back. This happened this week.

13:22 What was found though? what was um a condition that was like predisposed cuz when you look at the play and you're trying to evaluate it. He said the doctor operating surgeon said that though this was this was going to happen um sooner than later.

13:42 Nothing predisposed, nothing that was there uh originally. Um I might have gotten confused, but I don't think he really should share how many surgeries I've had in the past to be honest with you. But um cuz I don't you know he doesn't really even know that and uh nothing really that concerns me. Nothing uh that scares me going forward.

14:02 So I heard this week and read this week all over the internet is Shawn Payeyton blowing up the Broncos. No, that's what Nat Hackett almost did and the GM who's pretty sharp almost did giving away draft picks and paying a fortune for Russell Wilson. Shawn Peyton saved Denver. saved Denver. If Bo Knicks is healthy, they're probably in the Super Bowl. So, sometimes, you know, I I one of the things I love about the NFL, it's not sanitized. It's It's not It's It's the most popular thing on TV, but it's not a TV show. There's controversy and weird calls and people get emotional and they cry and they It's not sanitized. It's head coach quarterback to me is a lot like a marriage. When you stop talking, that's the problem. That was sort of the Bellich Tom Brady issue. They didn't have dinner for 20 years. They didn't, you know, and they would go back and forth, but at some point, remember that documentary from Gotham Chopra, like,

15:06 you know, even uh, you know, Jazelle was saying, "My my husband doesn't feel respected or heard." Like, that's the problem. Bo Nicks wants to make sure Shawn Payton's heard him and and Shawn Payton's a guy that leads with his chin. So, I always feel like this if if and Shawn leads with his chin and gets battered around. It's like, okay, like if you want to dominate your players, coach college sports. You recruit him, you control him, go be a college coach. But pro aletes have strong opinions. Pro athletes fire back. Bo Nicks is hyper intense and super competitive and he's gonna defend his body and his his brand and Shawn Peyton probably heard something from the doctor and kind of adlibd it and and Bo Nicks didn't love it and that's okay. That's the reality of pro sports and football's got a regulated level of violence. Uh go sit in a sideline and listen to the language during a game between teammate. We just

16:04 saw the Seahawks, their safety and their corner going after each other on the sidelines and and and when they asked the Seahawk corner about that, he's like, "It's good, bro. We're all trying to get to the same place. We love each other." Any relationship that's close has disagreements. Deal with a conflict. It's not that big of a deal. And sometimes I think the people that cover the sport, they want it more sanitized. That's why even when Aaron Rogers gives me a quote and I totally disagree with it, I appreciate the content. I appreciate the quote. I appreciate the segment and Shawn Payeyton gives me segments. Uh, and I like the fact that Bo Nicks pushed back, but I've seen him argue three or four times on the sideline this year, and I'm totally okay with it. I kind of like it. With a big game coming up, we're all about enjoying the moment without paying for it the next day. Whether I'm hosting friends,

17:00 jamming, cheering from the couch, heading to a watch party, I want to be fully present and still feel good in the morning. For me, that means planning ahead, especially if I want to have a few drinks. My simple trick, start the night with Zbiotics pre-alcohol. Ziotics pre-alcohol probiotic drink. The world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, that's actually to blame for rough days after drinking. So, pre-alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down.

17:46 Just remember to make pre-alcohol your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly. You'll feel your best tomorrow. If you're planning to enjoy the big game without sacrificing your productivity the next day, Zbiotics pre-alcohol has you covered. Start your night with pre-alcohol. Wake up ready to show up for work the next day. zbiotics.com/thed. Go there now. 15% off your first order if you use the herd at checkout. It's backed by 100% money back guarantee. No risk. Subscriptions also available for maximum consistency. Remember, zbiotics.com/theheerd.

18:27 Use the code the herd at checkout for 15% off. He is the founder of golongtd.com. I've talked to him a lot on the volume here at FS1, former beatwriter for the Bills, Buffalo News, former beat writer for the Packers, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. U covered the Patriots. He is tied in to all this stuff. He was at the Joe Brady presser yesterday. Tyler John Dunn, NFL writer, joining me. So J-Mack thought it was super emotional, but my take was uh first of all, it's a big job. Second of all, he's got a really human relationship that's intense with uh Josh Allen. So let's talk about that.

19:08 You never see Shawn McDermott get that emotional at, you know, at a podium. I watched the first time I watched Joe Brady at a podium, he gets super emotional. Is that part of his the attractiveness to hiring him?

19:23 Absolutely, Colin. I I I think look, there's everything we see and then there's everything we don't see when it comes to Shawn McDermott and how it ended after nine years in Buffalo. What what we see is is bad enough, right? Only I think only three coaches in NFL history in the Super Bowl era have won a Super Bowl, their first Super Bowl with their with a team in year nine or beyond. You're talking Bill Coward, Tom Landry, and Hank Stram. and Stram won an AFL title. So, it was time. The message got stale. You move on. In the last six playoff losses, 52 non-neal down drives, they've allowed 25 touchdowns, 13 field goals, forced only three turnovers, given up 3.83 points per drive. So, that's what we see. That's enough. What we don't see is what I've kind of heard coming out a little bit more, you know, in addition to our series in 2023. Look, this is a coach who grinds on people.

20:15 Yeah. Right. like he walks into a room, it sets a certain tone. It sets a certain mood. And what I was told by a high-ranking source, you know, in that building is, and we talked about it in 2023 when that came out, he tried to loosen up, tried to soften a little bit, but whenever the pressure ratcheted up, Colin, you're in the playoffs, you're facing Andy Reid, it's a big game. He kind of resort back to his old ways. And that that wears on people, not just players, but we're talking, you know, the medical department, trainers, coaches, everybody. So that needed to change. The messaging needed to change.

20:47 And then there's a matter of accountability. You heard Joe Brady at that podium taking blame for five turnovers against Denver. I frankly never really heard much of that out of Shawn McDermott over his tenure. You know, after 13 seconds publicly, you hear that word execution. That's code for the players screwed up. As we found out at Golong, it was Shawn McDermott overruuling the squib. you know, taking over the defensive play calling and then blaming the coaches the day later. You guys got to figure out what went what went wrong here. It was always worse privately than publicly. So to hear that kind of accountability out of Joe Brady, breath of fresh air to hear him know that everything orbits around Josh Allen, breath of fresh air. That was not the case with Shawn McDerma until it was too late at the end.

21:32 So you also covered for years uh Mike McCarthy, Aaron Rogers, I mean you know this relationship very well. Ian O' Conor, a very established guy yesterday said, "You know, Mike actually took Aaron out of college. Aaron, I remember watching him at Cal. I remember watching a USC game. He was very mechanical. He was very, very good. He had a huge game at the Coliseum." Yeah. Yeah. And he was great. I mean, you knew he was good, but he did he looked like a college guy. He was a little tight.

22:00 And Ian said Mike loosened him up. Well, he became kind of the loosest of all the quarterbacks. McCarthy Aaron take me through the journey you had with them. Do you think they can say you know what let's let bygones be bygones?

22:15 Right. I mean you're you're the analogy expert, right, Colin? Is this like we all have that friend later in life who's single and you know the market's getting a little dry and they kind of just get married to get married and I don't know like does Aaron Rogers really have any other options here? Is anybody banging on the door for a 42 year old quarterback who True, look, his brain is good. His arm is good. But father time is undefeated. He said it himself. You saw how it ended ended against the Houston Texans. So I think from Aaron's point of view, he'd probably love to go back to Pittsburgh because I don't know who else is going to take him. If I Mike McCarthy though, I know he has said nice things about Aaron Rogers. And look, it it ended poorly. Like Aaron to it's a double-edged sword. He's an all-time grudgeholder. That's part of what makes him special. Part of what makes him a Hall of Famer and that's part of the

23:06 reason everything fell apart with Mike McCarthy at the end and the play call comes in and he kind of does his own thing. So I I think they're all going to say the right things right now, but when the bullets are flying, what happens? You know, and I knew we were I knew you were probably going to bring this up. So I texted uh a player for the Packers who was on those teams uh was was a source for me back in that Bleach Report story. And actually, if I remember right, he was very pro Aaron. like he loved playing with Aaron Rogers and and and wasn't really thinking that Mike McCarthy was this quarterback expert.

23:36 Anyways, I was like, "Is this gonna work?" Like, if they get together and at first he kind of joked and he's like, "Yeah, it's a Cinderella story." And then he goes, "No." He goes, "Heron's an all-time grudge holder. They're going to be fighting right away. They'll be at each other's throats. This isn't going to work." So, you know, I I I think Mike McCarthy is an underrated quarterback, coach, teacher. He did way better in Dallas under awful circumstances. they don't really care about football that much down there. At one point at the cafeteria, I was told like there's marketing people all over the place. It's a circus. He turned to somebody and said, "Man, if I knew it was like this, I wouldn't have taken the job." So, I I I'm happy that he has a chance to go to a place that wants to win football games. You just hope he's got a chance to work with a young quarterback, dude. I mean, why why not

24:19 just pay up for Malik Willis, right? Give him a chance to develop a young quarterback like he did back in the day with Aaron Rogers.

24:26 That's interesting. the um you know you do it's in because you were working on the Packers, you covered a lot with the Chicago Bears and I said this the other day is that the two best teams in the NFC were Seattle and LA by the end of the year. I think Chicago was third. Chicago almost knocked off the Rams and the Rams didn't drop a pass or have a I think they had one penalty. Um you know I mean the Rams played almost a perfect football game in Chicago given the weather and still had to go to overtime. Chicago was a really good team at the end of the year. You did a uh I'm reading this here, a three-part 27,000word series, House of Dysfunction on the Bears. And so you're you're kind of an expert on this. Ben Johnson to Matt Eberloose behind the scenes. Um what were the biggest changes made?

25:18 So yeah, I talked to a lot of those coaches, players, front office people. It was it was ugly for basically all parties involved that rookie season for Caleb Williams. Now, I think initially with Eberlu's and that staff and it was kind of a continuation from the draft when the Bears are doing everything in their power to recruit Caleb Williams and convince him to want to be a Bear. I, you know, they changed their offense, they changed their play, everything was kind of to plate Caleb and run what he did in college. It does make a lot of sense, but it didn't go well obviously.

25:52 And by the time that it gets to an interim coach like Thomas Brown and he wants to do what Ben Johnson did in year two, hold Caleb Williams accountable, you're you're one of 53. It was it was too late, right, for that message to really resonate on the fly. So, I think Ben Johnson comes in and I talked to somebody um who's close with Ben Johnson after our series came out and he's like, you know, just just so you know, Ben did his research. He knows what he's getting himself into when it comes to Caleb Williams. all the the stuff we reported on behind the scenes with the team, the GM, all of that. And to Ben Johnson's credit, Colin, day one, it's like you're gonna play the quarterback position.

26:31 You're under center. They take the wrist the wristband away. So, they're they're building an offense. They're building a quarterback. They they built a powerhouse rushing attack. They're forcing a ton of turnovers on defense. And Caleb was really allowed, I think, to develop week to week to week to week to the point where you see the theatrics he did at the end of the season because a lot of the same problems were still there, right, with completion percentage, but hell, they go out, they sign three offensive linemen in the first week, that helps. And I think that Ben Johnson just being an old school, you know, hard coach on them, it was incumbent upon Caleb to respond, to his credit, he did, right? They won the division. They won a playoff game.

27:09 Yeah. The um I want to ask you the um the Vikings fired their GM today and there's some belief that Darnold his success in Seattle and being reminded of it. You've got so many NFL tentacles. I was never a big JJ McCarthy fan. Um I thought he was more of a second round talent. Uh he's obviously struggled to stay healthy. I I think he's an NFL quarterback, but I I didn't think he was a replace Sam Darnold quarterback. I I thought if you couldn't get Bo Knicks or Drake May, those guys to me are I'll build around. Um when the GM gets fired today, what are your instincts? I'm not sure if you've made a call. What are your instincts on what happened? Was there Adam Shfter said there was tension in the building? Jax says, "I don't buy that. That's just one of those things to uh you know to bury the GM." What did you make of that move today by the Vikings?

28:08 I I think it probably was building for a while. The tension, head coach, GM. Um, right. Quincy Delomensa comes from analytics, numbers, metrics, that stuff is important. Kevin Oonnell is a quarterback guru, whatever word you want to use, right? He he has worked with some of the best quarterbacks. He knows the position inside and out. So, I I'm I'm sure there might be some clashing going on and all that stuff is going to come out now, right? It always does. Yeah. Uh, it's it's hard not to look past the Sam Darnold thing, right? And when Sam Darnold's in a Super Bowl, he was in your building, somebody's going to be held accountable. I was it the GM's fault? I I don't know. Right. I mean, because Kevin O'Connell, you can see the logic in him wanting to draft his own guy, develop his own guy. He has been effusive in his praise of JJ McCarthy. But I just think more than anything, and I actually was just

29:02 talking to a player for the Vikings, a veteran about this um a couple days ago, and the way he put it was perfect. He said, "Our plan was just a little confused, right? On paper, it looks great. Rookie quarterback contract, spend a lot of money on the lines, um they've got the defense, they've got the weaponry, you know, everything makes sense, but you didn't really know if JJ McCarthy was that dude yet. You just kind of saw it in OTAAS, and you just got a sense for his charisma, but you didn't know if he could play yet." And I mean it was ugly obviously in his first year as a starter. So this is the kind of thing that happens. Somebody has to be held accountable.

29:38 Little updates on all of it. Um circle back one more. McDermott's not taking a head job. Does that surprise you? Sean McDermott's going to pass. Um I think he would have been interested in say maybe a Baltimore, but now it's Arizona. Uh it's it's Las Vegas. Are you surprised? You know him well. You've sat and talked with him before at length. McDermott's like, I'm getting out of this. Are you surprised?

30:04 You know what, Colin? Not surprised because I think it did take until about year eight, eight and a half of nine for Shawn to really realize, look, we don't have jobs without Josh Allen. It took too long. But I think eventually he kind of saw who really makes the thing go. He's not just gonna hurl himself into a bad organization, a bad environment without the quarterback. Now, he's gonna be picky. He's gonna be choosy, but

30:32 does that team exist next year? That's what we don't know. And look, there were a lot of assistant coaches who worked for him that took lateral jobs.

30:39 Yeah, it might be difficult for him to build a staff, too. Uh probably the best decision, just take a year off, step away from the game. He he's a grinder himself. Yes. If if he wants to go that route and rebuild a team, that's what he does well. But I think he knows he he needs the quarterback.

30:54 Golongtd.com. Always inside stuff. Great job, Tyler Dunn as always. And uh appreciate you stopping by.

31:04 Anytime, Colin. Thanks so much, man. You bet. Substackgolongtv.com. He's got all sorts of stuff out there. You hear him on this show. Uh the volume we put him on. He just does a terrific job. Uh Jmack with the news.

31:17 TURN ON THE NEWS. THIS is the Herdline news. All right, listen. There's not a lot of breaking news this week, but this one is huge. Colin, this just went down within the last hour. The Minnesota Vikings have fired their GM, Quacy Adopo Mensah. Pretty shocking development. Uh he's been the GM there for four seasons. Vikings have had a good record, 43 and 25. But obviously there is the report um you know not the report really that uh Sam Darnold crushed it with the Seahawks and has gotten to the Super Bowl and of course the Vikings cut him loose. Now this is how wacky this story is Colin.

31:56 The Vikings sent Quy to the Senior Bowl to scout. He was down in Mobile with Albert Brerier and all those guys this week and they all of a sudden fired him. Now he did give a presser this week where he talked about sleepless nights.

32:09 Yeah. at with with Darnold's success and I wonder if that contributed to it. Now we've got a lot of reporters coming out of the woodwork saying, "Well, there was beef all season. Miss me with that nonsense." Okay, these reporters do TV, radio, they're on social media. Nobody has had a whiff of this all season. And to come out and say, "Well, this has been coming." No, it hasn't. Okay, now I will in defense of the Vikings. I did look up his recent drafts and Quy has not had many home runs in the last few years. This past draft was a total disaster. They basically added no value anywhere. Uh the JJ McCarthy pick, you've scrutinized it heavily. U Jordan Addison has been good, but he's been getting in some trouble off the field.

32:49 It hasn't been a great draft, but Colin, I think this guy's going to be in high demand. He's a very sharp, analytically driven GM. Um he's not going to be out of work long in my opinion.

32:58 So he leaves the building and gets whacked. Yeah. Are you of some thought that there's a conspiracy theory with him and Kevin Oonnell?

33:09 No, I I'm not. But you know, Sean McDermott got in big trouble for going to his owner and GM and saying, "I don't know if we have a Super Bowl um window, but McDermott doesn't have the power of Kevin O'Connell." Kevin O'Connell may have gone to the owner and said, "We we don't have enough good players." I mean, again, when the coach has power, they win over GFM. I'm not saying this happened. I'm saying Shawn McDermott got in trouble, but Shawn McDermott needed to get to a Super Bowl. And there had been a lot of people, myself included, who said that he better get there.

33:45 Uh Kevin Oonnell's thought of very highly. Um I I Here's the other thing is that this general manager may have pounded the table for JJ McCarthy. I didn't get it. I'm not going to say I said before the draft I liked Bon Knicks. I like Caleb. I like Drake May. I like Jaden Daniels. I like Pennix. I said I like all of them. I wouldn't draft. I I was not a JJ McCarthy fan.

34:11 Um I mean here's the thing. The Vikings had Darnold. They also had at some point Daniel Jones who played very well when he was healthy this year.

34:18 Well, again, let's pump the So Daniel Jones had half a good season, then started to come back down to earth, then popped his Achilles. Okay. And just to be real on Sam Darnold and not defend the Vikings. I'm not a Vikings fan. Let's be real. Darnold had one good season, Colin. That was it. He had one really, really strong season. And like I I'm not surprised they moved off of him. Like he ended the season horribly. He He was very good, but it's like we're not judging guys on one season now, are we? Well,

34:49 I would get that if JJ McCarthy I mean again, they must have felt very strongly about JJ McCarthy.

34:56 Yeah. You know, somebody loved him besides Jim Harbaugh. You know, somebody in Minnesota really liked him.

35:02 Yeah. And now he's got to deliver it. Listen, I know we both love Kevin Oonnell and a couple people here at Fox know him well. Um, zero career playoff wins, same number as you and I. Okay, let's move on to the next story and that's Joe Brady in Buffalo. We're going to talk about him. One last time, Joe Brady obviously big big pressure this year as the Bills coach. Obviously, he's got the MVP quarterback in Josh Allen. Brady talked about his approach at his introductory press conference.

35:28 I didn't take this job to shy away from expectations. I sure as hell did not do that. I'm embracing it. I'm understanding it and I'm I'm meeting it full on. I know what I signed up for, and we're going to embrace it because no one rises to low expectations. I want what the city wants. I want what Mr. Pagoula deserves.

35:50 Who wrote that chat? GBT. Well, I mean, come on. Come on. The guy's crying during the I don't know.

35:56 You're very critical of Sorry. I'm a Jets fan. Come. I got to find some humor in this. I This is This is the most we've ever talked about Joe Brady in the last, you know, how many years we've been doing this together? Three.

36:06 Yeah. I mean, Joe Brady better go get some wins. And uh news flash, yes, we are going to be talking about him in headlines in the final hour. Well, that's called a tease in the industry, big guy. Final story, let's go to the Baltimore Ravens and their splashy hire Jesse Mter coming from out here uh as a Chargers DC. He will now have quarterback Lamar Jackson at his disposal. When talking about Lamar this week, Mter did not hold back praise for his quarterback.

36:35 Lamar and I have had multiple conversations. Uh it's been great. It's been great to get to know him. I think relationships take time. I just look forward to connecting with him, helping him become the best version of himself, creating a team identity that allows him to thrive, which he's already, you know, proven to be an elite elite, one of the the best player in the National Football League, and put a team around him that that allows him to reach that ultimate goal of bringing a Super Bowl back to Baltimore.

37:01 Maybe it's me, but just the the difference in appearance. Mentor's got the side part, the tie's not really snug up against the neck. He just looks like somebody I want to talk to and listen to. I I'm not bashing Brady, but he had like a haircut I had when I was like 22 years old. You know, Mter looks like he just looks like he's got his act together.

37:19 I'm rooting for him. Not that I'm against Brady and and now I'm going over the overboard.

37:24 It's interesting. You know, you got Josh Allen and and Lamar in these Super Bowl windows. Um I mean, we thought I don't know if you did. We didn't work together at the time. A lot of people thought that the Seahawks window with Russell Wilson and that stacked roster, we thought that was like a seven-year window and it closed after like three. You're like, they're great. Super Bowl, another boom.

37:47 You know, it's you got drama in the locker room. Look, Philadelphia this year. We're like, this team, this locker room is stack all of a sudden wrong OC. And Philadelphia had literally had halves where they didn't complete a forward pass. So, I mean, Baltimore now the the story about Jesse Mentor, the cap hit for Lamar. Lamar wants to be the highest paid quarterback in the league. Well, he's not the best quarterback in the league. So, that is going to limit the roster. John Harbaugh got Lamar Jackson on a rookie contract and he struggled to get him to a Super Bowl. He struggled to get him to play well in the postseason.

38:20 So, Jesse now is going to have a massive cap hit with Lamar Jackson. Well, there's just limitations on what you can do in free agency. I mean, part of the New England story this year and the Denver story, you know, is you can go you can go buy players. I mean, when Stafford signed a team friendly deal for the Rams, they went and got Nate Landman and Devonte Adams and those kind of players. So, I think I think uh that Baltimore job it it's a gold standard job, but when your cap hit is is 28% or something like that, whatever it is.

38:57 Think about that. Over a quarter of your roster, you're paying one guy and you got 54 other dudes. It's just hard to win.

39:03 Colin, you can only take one. Which of these teams is making the playoff next year? Bills, Ravens, or Chiefs? Um,

39:16 it's not easy. Remember, Mahomes conservatively out at least two Bills probably. Bills probably,

39:25 but again, his cap hit goes up 20 million. Josh Allen's cap hit. I don't remember the exact numbers. I think it's like 36 to 56 or something. It's it goes up.

39:35 So, that's just a huge advantage for Bo Knicks and Drake May. And you look in the NFC right now. Look at what the Chicago Bears did with their roster when Ben got Joe Tuni. Maybe the best O lineman in the sport. Drew Dolman, great center. I mean I mean they went and got they drafted well. So they hit on draft picks. They totally changed their offensive line. They hit on a right tackle. Uh was that the year before that right tackle be becomes really elite and all of a sudden you look up and you're like, man, Chicago's Chicago's got dudes. By the way, CJ Strad in Houston still on the rookie deal. Has a lot of guy that that's a dangerous team. Uh Houston next year in the AFC.

40:16 Jac with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by. The herd lie news. I I was looking this morning at um the NFL standings and the changes I would make uh cuz I have no life to to my next year predictions and I was just jotting it down and you know it's like the Giants and Tennessee are the two teams I said oh those those are going to be playoff teams because it's on average it's four. Um and so I thought okay New York Giants are going to make the playoffs. I think Tennessee is going to be really really interesting. Um, but but it's hard because if you have a really good coach, I mean, if you go look at the 14 teams that got in this year, there's a lot of good coaches and either a lot of really good quarterbacks or or really capable quarterbacks on rookie deals. Well, Drake's still on a rookie deal. B's still on a rookie deal. Caleb's still on a rookie deal. Uh CJ Strad, like it it's

41:12 we we talked about this. the if you go to the final four playoff teams, not a single team had a quarterback uh with a top 15 cap hit. Like there is I mean what is Bo Nick's cap hit? Like three, five, four, five% of the roster. You can just I mean lower than that. Like Drake Mazize is like tiny. It just let you go spend all you can just go buy good players. So I mean it's Bo Nicks. Here it is. Boix in Denver. So, so next year Lamar Jackson could potentially be 26 27% of the cap. One player Bo Knicks next season is 1.5% of the Denver Bronco cap.

42:01 Maybe that's why he's feisty. I mean, he's that that's free. That's a free player. And he was a first round pick. That's a free player at the most important position. who's great in the fourth quarter and super productive. So, when I say I don't think Lamar Jackson's going to make a Super Bowl again, it's no knock on the Ravens, I I think I think Josh Allen probably makes a Super Bowl, but I don't think he'd win it right now. The the top jams in the league, and there's good ones in the AFC, a lot of them are in the NFC.

42:30 So Lamar's cap hit next season as of today is 15 times higher than Bo Knicks next year. I mean, you tell me what are the rosters going to look like? That's that's I mean, when you look at Seattle's roster, I like Sam Darnold and they don't have any holes. I mean, they they're missing a really good number two running back in the Super Bowl. They they don't have a lot of holes, not a lot of places to

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Rodgers-McCarthy REUNION is GOOD for Steelers + Nix & Payton Broncos DRAMA | Colin Cowherd: HERD NFL"?

Colin Cowherd (Host), Tyler Dunn (Guest).

What is "Rodgers-McCarthy REUNION is GOOD for Steelers + Nix & Payton Broncos DRAMA | Colin Cowherd: HERD NFL" about?

The discussion focuses on the recent hiring of offensive line coach James Campen by Mike McCarthy for the Steelers, highlighting the potential benefits of this reunion in revitalizing Pittsburgh's offense. Additionally, it examines the dynamics of coaching legacy and perception, comparing McCarthy's achievements to those of Pete Carroll, ultimately suggesting that McCarthy is an underrated coach…

What is mentioned in this The Herd with Colin Cowherd episode?

17 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Colin Cowherd, Mike McCarthy, Tyler Dunn, Aaron Rodgers, Lamar Jackson, John Harbaugh. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Rodgers-McCarthy REUNION is GOOD for Steelers + Nix & Payton Broncos DRAMA | Colin Cowherd: HERD NFL"?

The episode runs 43 min; the transcript is about 7,889 words in 81 timestamped sections.

More from The Herd with Colin Cowherd

• All analyzed episodes
• People mentioned on The Herd with Colin Cowherd
• Topics mentioned on The Herd with Colin Cowherd