The Only Hack To Paying Off Debt Is Doing The Hard Work | January 7, 2026

What this episode is about

The discussion emphasizes the importance of facing difficult financial situations head-on, especially in debt repayment strategies. A caller shares a personal struggle involving a potential credit card charge-off after experiencing job loss and personal loss, and the hosts provide practical advice on managing debt amidst financial instability.

Key takeaways

• Debt charged off? More like a permission slip to negotiate your way out of financial messes.
• Settling debts isn't a one-time deal; creditors prefer cash over confrontation, and your flexibility increases over time.
• Lost a job, lost a baby—life’s hitting hard. But remember, resilience is your strongest currency in crises.
• Financial stress is temporary, but bad credit may haunt you longer. Prioritize mental health alongside your budget.
• Part-time work today can lead to full-time financial recovery tomorrow; keep those client numbers climbing!

Who speaks in this episode?

• Dave Ramsey (Host) · 1 h 16 min speaking
• Jade Wshaw (Guest) · 38 min speaking
• Katherine (Guest) · 6 min speaking
• Jesse (Guest) · 6 min speaking
• Logan (Guest) · 6 min speaking
• Britain (Guest) · 6 min speaking
• Anthony (Guest) · 6 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 15:00: Every Dollar, Casper, Fair Winds Credit Union, Jade Wshaw
2. 15:00 – 30:00: Better Help, What No One Tells You About Money
3. 30:00 – 45:00: Fair Winds Credit Union, Jade Washaw
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00: Christian Healthcare Ministries, Jade Wshaw, What No One Tells You About Money
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00: Every Dollar
6. 1:15:00 – 1:30:00: Church Hill Mortgage, Every Dollar, Fair Winds Credit Union, Jade Washaw
7. 1:30:00 – 1:45:00: Facebook, Google LLC, What No One Tells You About Money
8. 1:45:00 – 2:00:00: Every Dollar

Notable quotes from "The Only Hack To Paying Off Debt Is Doing The Hard Work | January 7, 2026"

• So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. Jade Wshaw Ramsey personality number…

  about Fair Winds Credit Union · at 0:15

• It's on the street. What no one tells you about money. The real key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there and it's talk to credit card people at the credit card time.

  about What No One Tells You About Money · at 8:13

• If you're waking up tired every morning, you don't need more caffeine. You need better rest. And that's why Casper mattresses are engineered to help you sleep deeper and wake up refreshed. And this isn't just one George's opinion.

  about Casper · at 9:01

• Than you think and then you're being told. This year, it's time to take back your money. starting at our free every dollar live stream this Thursday night. Jade and I will be…

  about Every Dollar · at 10:15

• The life you want to live in the new year. If you're thinking about therapy, I recommend BetterHelp. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is one of the leading online…

  about Better Help · at 20:14

• Welcome back to the Ramsey show. In the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Jade Washaw, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author and author…

  about Jade Washaw · at 43:13

• Panic. Most health plans lock you out for the year if you didn't sign up by December. But Christian Healthcare Ministries lets you join anytime. CHM offers a simple, flexible…

  about Christian Healthcare Ministries · at 52:03

• Is very online focused like it's it's very dependent on Facebook actually.

  about Facebook · at 1:38:11

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Jade Wshaw — Person · 2 mentions · first at 0:22
  Your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. Jade Wshaw Ramsey personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today as we answer your questions. The phone number is88255225.
• Jade Washaw — Person · 2 mentions · first at 43:17

Books & papers

• What No One Tells You About Money — Book · 5 mentions · first at 8:13

Companies & orgs

• Fair Winds Credit Union — Company · 3 mentions · first at 0:20
• Better Help — Company · 3 mentions · first at 19:44
• Facebook — Company · 2 mentions · first at 1:38:14
• Christian Healthcare Ministries — Company · 1 mention · first at 52:07
• Church Hill Mortgage — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:23:30
  So, call Church Hill Mortgage and talk to them about refinancing. If you roll 100% of your refinance, if you got a lot of equity, yeah, we have 100 to 12.
• Google LLC — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:38:42
  I would say that I mean conservatively 10 or 15 years, but who knows, right? Like Google I'm 100% 100% sure that Google and Facebook are going to do one thing. Take care of Google and Facebook,.

Products & tech

• Every Dollar — Product · 11 mentions · first at 0:05
• Casper — Product · 2 mentions · first at 9:04
• EveryDollar — Product · 1 mention

Full transcript with timestamps

0:05 Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke. Common Sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. Jade Wshaw Ramsey personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today as we answer your questions. The phone number is88255225. Jade is in Memphis. Hi Jade. How are you?

0:38 Hi guys. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Okay. So I am We were in baby step two, but now we're in baby step one. and I got a notification that one of our credit cards is in um threat of being charged off within 30 days. And so I don't really know what we should do. If I should take out a loan, ask friends for that money um because they're trying to settle or if I should just let it go to collection.

1:05 How much is it? It is 10,000 but they're letting they want to settle for 4,800.

1:11 Okay. Do you have any money anywhere? No. So, I lost my job in October and I found out I was pregnant and then I lost the baby um in December.

1:22 I'm sorry. And so, we have less than the $1,000 in savings and we're paycheck to paycheck right now.

1:30 Okay. What? I'm sorry. I'm sorry you went through that. Uh what are you and your husband earning combined every month?

1:37 Well, so before I mean my job I I got 60,000. So, we we took a $60,000 pay cut. Huh?

1:43 Um, and he makes 50. Are you back? Are you Are you getting a job? Have you found a position?

1:50 Um, so I have got a new job. I'm a mental health therapist, but it's part-time right now while I build clients.

1:56 Um, so I'm bringing home like anywhere from 500 to a,000 every two weeks. Okay. Okay. That's not that's not too too bad. 500 to a,000 every two weeks. Okay. So, here's here's what I'm thinking right now. you really are. Um, you've you've been through a lot very quickly and I I applaud you for jumping back on your feet really quick. Uh, is this $10,000? Is this the only debt you have? Is there more?

2:22 No. So, we have two more credit cards. Um, so 30 and then this 10, so 40. Um, the other two were in payment plans for

2:32 um, so when I lost my job, I went into I closed them and I went into payment plan with lower interest rates. M

2:39 um but this one they wouldn't work with us and so we didn't have the money to pay it.

2:44 Okay. Tell me a little bit more about I'm just trying to figure out what you can scr up if there's anything you can sell how quickly you can get this or if you can even negotiate a smaller amount than the 4,800. Likely not. But I would try it. Um

2:59 see I didn't know if I should call and I should try that. I would not not unless you have not unless you have the money line.

3:05 Try it. Not unless you got the money. Is there anything you can sell off? Tell me about your cars.

3:10 So, one car we own outright and then one car we still have 10 left on, 10,000 left on.

3:15 Okay. Um and that's our main vehicle. How many How many kids do you have, hun? We have one.

3:21 Okay. And we have and we pay for daycare. So, she's four. So, we pay How quickly is your income going to ramp up, do you think?

3:29 I'm hoping within the month. Um so, by February, we should get my back to my income. I get paid 50 I get paid 53 an hour

3:40 um and I have 10 clients right now. So if I can get up to 20 client then I should reach that

3:46 um by February but this will be charged off by the end of January. How much is Let's stop. Let's stop a second. Okay. Charged off does not mean anything.

3:56 Okay. Okay. You already have a debt that has gone collection to collections. your debt is already bad. Agreed.

4:06 Okay. Yes. Okay. When they charge it off, it simply means they are not going to count it on their books anymore because they don't think they're going to collect it, but it doesn't it doesn't make your credit worse. Your credit already is trashed.

4:23 Yeah, it's bad. I just didn't want them to like sue us and car. They'll get they'll get around they'll get around to that eventually, but charging it off is not that is not a sign you're getting ready to get sued. How long ago did you pay the last payment on this account?

4:38 Um, probably September. Okay. You you're you're I doubt you're in any danger. Okay.

4:45 Okay. I don't care if they charge it off. Guess what? But if they charge it off the next day you talk to them,

4:50 they'll take the 4,800 cuz they still want their money. Mhm. The only difference is just The only difference is just they're they're coming up with these boogeymen in the closet. Oh, we're going to charge it off. No, please. What does that mean? No, please. What does that even mean? Yeah, it doesn't mean anything really. Okay, so let's not worry about it.

5:12 I don't want to be kicked while we're down. I know you you could get sued, but even then you could settle the lawsuit for the same 4,800. Okay? It's not like every day this gets uh later and later and later, the chances statistically of them collecting it is smaller and smaller. So, they are more and more flexible.

5:35 They'll settle for less and less, not less and less flexible. Okay? So, it's not like it's a one-time good time deal. This is a one-time okay deal and you probably could get the exact same deal or better two months from now when you guys are back on your feet.

5:52 Okay. I I think I'm just going to say, you know, guys, I you know, we just lost a baby. I've got a brand new job. We simply don't have the money. It's a very kind offer for 4,800, but I don't have $4,800. If I did, you probably wouldn't be late. Well, I didn't know if I should stop paying the other two cards that we're current on to try to make a deal with them or if I should.

6:17 No, just let I would just keep doing what you're doing and let's get back up on our feet and then let's get every get get the debt snowball working

6:24 and start paying those minimum payments you're paying. You can save up some money and call these people and say, "Hey, I got $4,000. I got $3,000. You want to take that?" If they want to take it, fine. If not, hang up on them. Call them back in two months. They'll do it then. you know, and just keep working your plan, working your debt snowball, but I don't think we're gonna let them establish the urgency.

6:45 Okay. Matter of fact, I know we're not going to let them establish the urgency.

6:49 I literally when you're telling this story, Jade, it's funny because I literally wrote a similar about a similar instance in my book and you're saying the same thing. What you just said about, oh, I'm thinking of taking these other credit cards and not paying those and paying it to other people. you feel that because of the stress and they're calling you and they're blowing up your phone and you're trying to focus on other things and they're just inundating you with calls and offers. And Dave is right like just do what you know to do. Keep those minimum payments going. Get on your feet and don't let them be in control. Cuz if you let them be in control, all they want to do is take. They don't care about the fact that you need to buy groceries. They don't care about the fact that you lost a a a baby. They don't care about that.

7:31 And so don't give them any more power. and don't give them any ammunition. There's no sense in having a discussion.

7:37 Yeah. That's why I stopped making those payments because they just wouldn't work with us.

7:40 And then and guess what? Now they're very flexible. Okay. And guess what? Three months from three months from now, they'll be flexible again.

7:48 Be like little gymnasts calling you up. I love it. I'm going to give you a copy of my book. Okay Jade.

7:56 Yeah. Yeah. Jade to Jade. Jade to Jade. Hook. Friend to friend. I never meet anybody with my same name. That's very That's a very new thing for me. So,

8:05 and with a question that you've been through. I know. Exactly. It was meant to be on this publishing day.

8:11 There we go. The book comes out today. Mhm. It's on the street. What no one tells you about money. The real key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there and it's talk to credit card people at the credit card time charged off.

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9:38 Code Ramsey. Exclusions apply. Well guys, we know there's a lot of chaos out there making you feel like you cannot get ahead with money. A lot of messages, a lot of voices saying it can't be done. But you have more control than you think and then you're being told. This year, it's time to take back your money. starting at our free every dollar live stream this this Thursday night. Jade and I will be hosting this and hundreds of thousands of you, probably millions, will be joining us. Thank you for that. It's free. We're going to give you the clarity in the middle of the chaos and we can show you actually how to take back your money, get ahead with money, and we're going to be giving away $20,000 cash that night.

10:48 Hello. No purchase necessary, obviously. It's freaking free. Did I mention that it's free? And all you have to do is enter the giveaway to sign up, right? All you have to do to enter the giveaway is to sign up. So, register right now and that put you in there for the giveaway and also send you up to get all the the links and everything so you can watch the free every dollar live stream. Jade and I will be doing it in front of a 2500 person audience right here in our Ramsey Event Center this coming Thursday night. I'm looking forward to it.

11:19 Me, too. Yeah, ramseyolutions.comlivestream. And uh I watched Jade do her portion of it the other day in practice rounds and you guys I listen I should charge you a lot for this but it's free. I'm just saying it's really you're going to get some solid information, some things to help you cut through all the garbage that's out there. There's a lot of squawking out there. Have you noticed? And the only way you get rid of the squawking is to have a plan.

11:49 Because then you quit listening to all the squawking. And everybody's got a dad gum opinion about why you can't win. Have you ever noticed that? And they're all people that aren't winning, by the way. Um, hello. People that are winning, they don't they don't write in the comments section.

12:04 Good point. You ever seen successful people that stop and write stuff negative in someone else's comments section?

12:10 They don't. And that your comment section, if you don't know, is not necessarily your YouTube page. It's just your life when you're sitting there saying something positive and they're going, "Oh, yeah, but don't you know about and it's the little man can't get ahead and oh, it's all rigged and the corporations the corporations and the and the taxes and the government and the inflation and Biden and Trump and oh shut up.

12:37 Seriously." See, that's the chaos and the voices, the squawking I'm talking about. We're going to help you with that this Thursday night for free. ramseysolutions.com/livestream. Be sure and jump in. And uh it's the free every dollar live stream. Katherine is in Dallas. Hey, Katherine. What's up?

12:58 Hey, how are you? Good. How can we help? Uh so I was recently laid off um effective at the end of the month. Um, and now me and my husband are trying to figure out what we should do with what we have in savings to kind of make that work the best for us.

13:17 Okay. What were you making? Uh, I was making about 42,000 a year. Okay. Doing what?

13:24 Uh, as a legal assistant. Okay. And they laid you off after Christmas. No, before Christmas.

13:33 Oh, that month. The week before. The week before. I'm sorry. So you were working for Grinch and Grinch.

13:41 I mean, wow. Might as well have. Yeah. I can't imagine. If I was going to lay somebody off the week before Christmas, I would do it the week before Thanksgiving.

13:50 Just so I didn't do it the week before Christmas. Just give it some air. It came after they flew me out for a Christmas party.

13:58 Oh. The week before. What did you do at the Christmas party, Catherine? one free drink and my hotel then.

14:09 Oh boy. I'm sorry. Oh man, I'm sorry. Okay, this sucks. Okay, anyway, aside from their lack of um quality timing, um let's see. So, how's the job hunt going?

14:23 Um so, I started it that night after a bottle of wine. Good for you. Crying. A bottle of wine. It's a good thing to sign, you know, start filling out your resume after a bottle of wine. Yeah. So, I've got a couple of interviews lined up and the goal obviously is to not have any laps.

14:39 There you go. There you go. So, you got a little severance. Uh, no. No severance.

14:44 Oh, they told me that the notice was our severance. Oh, I see. So, you're just trying You don't want to have any lack of uh

14:53 Good. No laps. Yeah. Yeah. Good. That's a good plan. All right. So, how's how's the how are you getting some nibbles? Um, I've got a couple of interviews lined up and I hope that like again like I hope there's no lapse and that I hope that something anything I will do anything.

15:11 Okay. Can you cover can you not cover the laps for one month on your husband's income?

15:16 Yeah. What's he make on my husband's income? He's military. So I think he puts down like if we are filling out a form I think he puts down like 70,000 a year is what he makes. Mhm.

15:25 Um when we did cuz that night we did a breakdown of our expenses. Um if we changed absolutely nothing, we would be in the negative every month.

15:34 How much? Um uh it was like a few hundred bucks cuz Okay. And how much do you how much do you have in savings?

15:41 Uh we have about 16,000 between the two of us. I actually went to be a surrogate

15:47 and had a miscarriage about partway through that process. So, we have a decent amount of money in a separate account because I purposely did not want to spend it um that we have not touched

15:58 aside from the 16,000. No, that is the bulk of Okay, so here's the deal. Here's the deal.

16:06 Don't do anything. just go get a job and if you don't get one and you have a gap for $200 or $300, take the $200 or $300 out of the 16,000 and then the next month you're back up to even, right?

16:21 Okay. Okay. That's what the emergency fund is there for. Yeah. Now, you've got debt and other stuff though, right?

16:29 Yes, we do have debt. So, for right now, for right now, we're not doing a total money makeover. We're just going to sit here in the middle of the hurricane until the wind quits blowing and that's when you get the new job and then we will assess the damage and that might be that you have to pay a couple hundred bucks out of the 1,600 out of the 16,000 to uh to float you for that one month till you get your paycheck going again. But I'm pretty damn sure listening to you, you're going to have a paycheck in a month.

16:59 I sure hope so. I mean, really, I think you are, don't you? Uh, I'm watching. Okay. So, if you don't if you don't if you don't, it cost you 200 bucks of your savings right?

17:10 Yeah. It would cost you a couple hundred. And if you don't if you don't the next month, it cost you 200 more.

17:15 Mhm. That's 400 whole dollars out of 16,000. Whoopde. And if you start creeping up on two or three months, you could easily pick up a little side hustle.

17:27 You're not She's not gonna do that. She's gonna have a job because you got too much going on here. you're going to get a job. So my point is is you just don't do anything and if you have to cover a little bit, you know, less than $1,000 out of the 16, it's no big deal, right? Mathematically,

17:44 right? It just goes all It just goes all with the fear of looking for a job and the pissed off of being mistreated and all that stuff mixes in

17:52 and then the math quits being clear, right? Yeah. Okay. Cuz my husband and I disagree. He wants to pay things off and I'm like, "No, but you can't right now. You got to get right You got to get right side up first."

18:05 As soon as you get back to work, the two of you need to combine your income, combine your debt, combine your savings, and start the total money makeover and start getting, you know, get save $1,000 and take the rest of that 16 and throw it at the debt, smallest to largest once you're moving again. And you know, I want to change your your your mindset on this a little bit, Katherine. And I know it's easy for me to say it on this side of things, but you got to look at this as an opportunity. Instead of looking at it like, "Oh man, I got fired. I got fired the week before Christmas." And all these negative things, maybe it's an opportunity for you to make more money than you've ever made and have a better job than what you had before in in a more fulfilling work space, right?

18:44 It's not a high bar to get better people to work with. Yeah. Th this could turn out to be the best thing that's happened to you, but you got to switch your brain into that mode and it's going to change the way this feels for you.

18:55 Yeah. And note to self, don't fly out to next year's Christmas party. Yeah. Wow.

19:02 No bottle of wine before the interview. Yeah. They started budgeting and did that resume right after that first bottle of wine. We're going to get everything straightened out now by This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. As we head into the new year, I want you to take an inventory of all the stuff you're carrying. All those things you think you have to do, all the past hurts and pains along with your past guilts and shame. When the world feels heavy, it's important to look in the mirror and consider setting down that old weight and not carrying it forward into 2026.

20:07 Therapy can help you identify the heavy stuff, set it down, and move forward with clarity so you can focus on living the life you want to live in the new year. If you're thinking about therapy, I recommend BetterHelp. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is one of the leading online therapy providers in the world, trusted by millions with an average rating of 4.9 stars out of five. And it's easy to fit into your busy schedule because it's totally online. To get started, just answer a few easy questions and BetterHelp will connect you with a licensed therapist who fits your needs. And if it's not the right fit, you can change therapists at any time for no extra cost. You can't feel lighter without leaving behind what's been weighing you down. Go to betterhelp.com/ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp. hp.com/ramsey.

21:16 Jesse is in Memphis. Hi Jesse. How are you? I'm doing better than I deserve. How about you Dave?

21:22 Just the same sir. What's up? Good. Good. Um, okay. So, little preface. Um, I work for a great company and I did fairly well last year and so they were taking my wife and I on a cruise in February along with a lot of the people who had also gotten, you know, the metrics and I was just wondering, I'm in baby step two and so I know I shouldn't be on any vacations or going out spending um, but am I allowed to have an allotted job to use on this vacation? And yes, I get paid for it.

21:55 Is it just you just need pocket money? You're allowed to do whatever you want to do, Jesse. But you know what? What would we do if you're in baby step two? This cruise is not costing you anything?

22:05 No. Um, I get paid the whole time I'm gone. I get room and board and the company vehicle down to the port.

22:12 Okay. So, so just pocket money for meals or whatever. Meal should be included on the cruise, right?

22:19 Yeah. But you still need a little bit of money. It's just um for like excursions or to have a little fun cuz this is the only vacation that uh I'm quote unquote planning. So

22:29 what if you planned if you planned it out and you've looked at it, what do you think is the number of the amount of money you think you would need for it that you would spend?

22:38 Oh yes, we did it last year and I did like bare bones so I didn't spend anything. Um and I know that we could do it again like that. Uh but bring like

22:47 Don't talk Don't talk to me about I don't ever get to go on vacation. And I did a cruise last year.

22:50 Yeah, that's the plan. No whiny. This is agreed. Agreed. Wait, let me let me get you back to your senses. How much debt do you have?

23:00 Okay. Um, so I got about five in consumer um through cards. That's what started this y'all in November. So I've already cut that down from 7K.

23:09 And then uh I got my car and that's about 14. And that's that's it. I I would go Jesse, but what I would do is I want you to reframe this in your head. Okay. Um, the reason that we teach people to stay out of restaurants and stay out of vacations while they're in baby step two is total focus. That I have one job and that's to defeat the debt. Because if I live like no one else, later I can live and give like no one else. I'm paying a price to win. Okay.

23:49 Okay. And that's how you frame this decision in your head. Not not Dave, I want to go on vac. We're not going to get to you on vacation for a long time and we went on a cruise last year, but come on, man.

24:01 Wait, let me frame Let me frame it to you like that. Sorry. No, I mean really, you you need to frame it up with

24:08 I'm going to do this. I don't need Dave's permission to do it for sure. You're like a grown man and you hit your metrics. Okay. But um but you're I'm gonna do this, but I'm also going to make sure that the altitude and the attitude and the angle of my heart is permanently changed.

24:27 Oh yeah. The away from the rationalizations and the justifications that allowed me to get into this mess in the first place.

24:34 Yes, sir. That's why we do this because we're trying to shock your spirit into saying you're not entitled to vacations or eating out. Those are entertainment luxury items while you're broke people. And I want to I want people's spirit to be shocked. That's what happened to my spirit. I didn't have the option of doing it voluntarily. It was snatched from me because I was so stupid. I went bankrupt. So I got I got you beat hands down on stupid, right?

25:01 And I I listen, I thought whining was a little known form of prayer. So I had whining down too, you know. So, but but what I figured out is is that you have to change the

25:13 the altitude, the attitude, the angle of your heart permanently regarding these things. So, you never again uh talk yourself into something that down deep you know you shouldn't be doing. I think this is fine mathematically.

25:30 Okay. Yeah. And uh on Jade's point of view, I just wanted to add this real quick. I am picking up a side job this year, too. So,

25:36 doesn't matter. That should all go towards the debt. It's still it's it's B what we're talking about is you set the boundary and once if you have said to yourself I'm getting out of debt that's the priority. If you let these little things start sneaking past the goalpost more and more sneak past. It's like it's like when you say I'm not eating any sweets and then somebody makes a pan of brownies. Well, already you've gone past it because the pan is there. But then what do you do? You slice off a little piece and you go I'm just going to have that little piece.

26:01 Then you go back in and you slice off another little corner and another little corner. And before you know it, you've ate the pan of brownies. following me around.

26:07 I saw you. That's what we all do. We've all done it. And that's a great way to think of it. You got a pound of brownies because they gave you the free trip. You get to decide how much you slice off.

26:18 Don't slice any of it off. You already got the pan is just sitting there. And you know what we're doing is you have to set new neuropathways in your brain.

26:26 Yeah. That's the real part that says I'm done with this crap. So, I would go, but I'm gonna, you know, your your side hustle is to set the new neuropathways and go, I'm going, but I'm going to be unbelievably disciplined about this slice.

26:45 Yes. Very disciplined. Because I know the danger is not the actual slice. The danger is I'm still going back to the brownie pan.

26:53 Yes. Throw the throw the pan away after this slice. That's the thing, you know, that's that's what it is. I mean that that's what we're trying to you have to permanently change your way you talk to yourself about this. The words that you use out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The Bible says very true.

27:07 And so the words that we use and the way we talk to ourselves and even the tone that we use to ourselves about talking ourselves into or out of something reflects whether or not you know is your heart right on this. And that that's the thing. So guys, that's that's the lesson, the takeaway from Jesse's call because it's a good call and Jesse's obviously a good guy and he's obviously a high producing dude.

27:29 And when you go out there though, take a step further what Dave just said. When you go out there, Jesse, what you can't do is well, I can't spend any money. I can't do that. You have to say you have to form the words of what you want, which is I'm choosing. Everything's a choice. I've chosen to be grateful that I do this, that the company gave me this cuz otherwise I wouldn't be able to do it this year. Yes.

27:50 Cuz this year we're not going on vacation. But paying off my debt is my priority.

27:54 Exactly. And that's how you talk to yourself. Reset this whole this whole set of tapes that's running in your brain, man.

28:00 Vocab rehab. Um that that's why we do some of the things we do, y'all. It's like the um and what we're trying doing is the pendulum has swung too far to the consumer side

28:11 where he says everything's okay. Hey, just push the submit button, load the cart. Right.

28:15 Right. And uh I can impulse anything I want and I work so hard and I deserve and all these things we tell ourselves

28:21 and all we're doing is swinging the pendulum back to the other side and go, you don't deserve nothing. Shut up. You're broke people,

28:26 man. You know, Dave, it's like you're quoting the book. Good job. Your book. Yeah.

28:31 The new one. The new one that's out today. What no one tells you about money. The real key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there. It's the emotional part of this.

28:39 That's right. And that's what we're dealing with. neuropathways, the behavior shifts, all of those things. And you know, the feedback loops you put for yourself.

28:47 Yes. Uh you know, one of the other things that goes with this too, and Jay, I I know you talked about this in there as well in indirectly, not exactly the way I'm going to say it, in other words, but

28:58 uh one of the things I did, Jesse, when I was at your thing, it's completely different from your question, but it fits in the same bucket of stuff. I don't do things mechanically, tactically with how I pay things

29:13 that aren't automatically always getting me the discount. Okay. Okay. So, before there was online bill pay because there was no online.

29:23 Okay. I prepaid my utility bills to get the discount. To get the discounts. Prepaid to get the discounts. And I said I set it on an auto calendar, right? I have automatic draft to this day on my checking account that goes straight into a mutual fund every single month.

29:43 Automatically out of my checking account so I don't accidentally forget it. That's right.

29:47 I have automatic discipline all the way through there. There was a guy out 100 years ago when one of my first bestsellers called Automatic Millionaire.

29:55 His name is David David Bach. It was a bestselling book. He said just put everything on automatic so that you're automatically doing smart stuff out.

30:02 Automate smart. Yes. And and you don't have to think about you don't have to builtin discipline with the systems, not like I'm going to grip my teeth and do this every time.

30:10 That's right. That's right. And that that's the same kind of thing. We're resetting how we view this and what's the attitude, the altitude, and the angle of my heart on this stuff. It's very good. You know, every year I hear the same excuses for why people don't get the life insurance they need to protect their families. So this year, let's clear the air and look at the facts. Having 10 to 12 times your income on a 15 or 20-year plan is in many cases just plain cheap. That amount of coverage lets your family keep the lights on and keep food on the table while they're grieving. Second, life insurance through your work is not enough, especially since these plans go away if you change jobs. You need to have your own policy so you're not without protection when your family really needs it. Third, stay-at-home parents need life insurance, especially those with young kids. People don't realize how quickly

31:49 the costs add up without someone at home taking care of things. So, no more excuses, folks. Get the protection your family needs. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282. They've been my choice for all my insurance for over 25 years and are the only people I trust.

32:27 Chris is with us in Denver. Hey Chris, how are you? I'm well. Thanks for taking my call Dave.

32:34 Sure man. What's up? Uh so I used to make good money as an engineer and I was on baby step four before I knew what the baby steps were.

32:43 Good. Uh then three years ago, I made uh what I realize now uh two major mistakes in a row. I bought uh the biggest house I could buy with 3% down and PMI thinking that uh house hacking would be easy. I'm now doing Airbnb. Uh and then a few months after that, I quit my job uh because I was miserable there. Uh thinking I had enough savings. Um, I can give you some financial details, but I'm wondering if you think I should sell my house.

33:14 Tell us more. What's What? Oh, yeah. Tell us more. Yeah. So, I quit my job. Uh, and then I realized that I would not be making my mortgage if I were to do house hacking.

33:30 Uhhuh. So, I I pivoted um and then started doing Airbnb. Okay. And where are you living to renovate? During this time uh I was in the house during renovation time I was living in the house. Sorry. Yeah. I was living in the house and then while I was air while I Airbnb my house I was living with my friends that have a couple of kids and I was helping them.

33:54 Oh gosh. Babysitting in a very close friend. How old are you? I am 37. Okay. All right. I mean, sometimes if you wake up from a nightmare and you're standing kneede in the swamp, the best thing to do is to return to the last time there was solid ground and retrace your steps. And so that would in this case sound like get a job as an engineer and sell the house.

34:25 Yeah. And then you would have your life back. Yeah. What what prevents you from doing that

34:31 in your mind? Well, I was interviewing for some engineering jobs uh in 2025. Um it was difficult to come back after taking some years off. And I also know that I'm not suited for a 9 to5 now. Um and I'm pursuing an

34:46 Why are you not suited for a 9 to5? What's wrong with you? That's a great question.

34:53 Are you trying to say that you're entrepreneurial? Yeah, I believe so. Yeah. You're suited for it. You don't want to do it. Okay. I don't blame you for that. I don't blame you for that. I'm entrepreneurial, too, and I wouldn't want to be trapped somewhere. I don't I don't have an issue with that. But so, what we're saying is not suited for is not the right phrase. What we're saying is it's not preferable for you.

35:14 But right now, Right now, you're not really in a phase where you can do exactly what you prefer.

35:19 Exactly. Preference is no longer a point. You're neck deep in quicksand. So, I'm wondering if if I do some numbers, if you think I am in quicksand. So, in 2024, I broke even with my mortgage with the Airbnb. And then in 2025, I was negative 10 or 15,000 with my Airbnb.

35:43 Is the Airbnb only where does this sound like it's fun to you? None of this sounds fun to me. If this was a business unit at Ramsay, we would close the thing and call it failed.

35:57 Yeah. Um, I'm wondering if an alternative is. Yeah, maybe. Why are you reluctant to Why? Hey, why are you reluctant to sell the house? Yeah,

36:10 you just don't want to get You don't want to admit that this screwed up. Yeah, I I think I might be falling into some cost fallacy.

36:17 Okay. Yeah, definitely 100%. What? Tell us tell us the Can you sell the house for as much as you owe on it?

36:24 Uh, yes, I believe so. I put about a h 100,000 into it renovating it. Um Oh, you lose that.

36:35 I mean, what what will the house sell for? Yeah. The So, I'm looking at Zillow and Redford right now.

36:42 I bought it for 650. Mhm. Zillow saying 615. Redin saying 580. Oh, so you're not going to get the money out of it.

36:52 But you put a 100red down or you put 100red in it after you bought it for 650? 100 into it after buying.

36:59 Yeah. So, you owe seven You have $750,000 invested in a house that's worth $600. $600,000.

37:07 You know better than I did. Well, I mean, is that what you're telling me? That I don't know if if I got an appraisal if it would be worth more. I'm guessing it would be.

37:17 Okay. But I mean, you're telling me you paid $650,000 for it, plus you put 100 into it, meaning you have $750,000 in this house. Correct.

37:28 Correct. And you don't think it's worth anywhere near that is what you're telling me.

37:35 I don't know. Get Get a real estate agent. Go sign go on our site. You need to go to ramseyolutions.com and just in the box type in real estate agent. It'll take you where you need to go. And you need to have somebody come out there. done that.

37:47 Okay. And what did they say? What they what would they list it for ver based on what they saw?

37:51 Well, I I started doing that step and then I was like, I'm going to talk to Dave directly.

37:56 Facts. And now I'm telling you, go do it. See it through so you can see what the actual numbers are.

38:00 You need to have numbers. Uh facts are your friends. You're in trauma and you need to sell this thing if you can. And you need to retrace your steps and get back on solid ground. And then from there, think about how you can come up with some uh career choices after you're making a living again.

38:19 How much money do you have in the bank in in retirement or say no? Not retirement, non-retirement investments.

38:26 Probably like about 10,000. 10,000. Okay. You got to you got to get a job, man. Well, since you find the work you're wired to do because I think you don't know what you want to do and I think you're just kind of coasting and this idea that you might be an entrepreneur, I'm glad that that's so, but we need to get some some beef around that and and figure out what that's going to be. In the meantime, yeah, we'll send you the book, but you also just need to get a job.

38:49 Yeah. So, the first thing you're suited to do is buy food, lights, and water. The second thing you're suited well to do is pay your stinking bills.

39:02 The third thing you're well suited to do after you've done those two things is find something that is a style of work that you enjoy, meaning entrepreneurial and more freewheeling than in a nineto-ive.

39:16 But you don't really have a lot of choices right now, man, because you've done screwed this up. Hello.

39:20 Yeah, you've made a mess. And so you got to get the shovel out. The barn is full of poop.

39:26 Today is J O. Yeah, there's some shoveling that needs to be done here. So, yeah, you got a mess. Wow.

39:35 Yeah. So, you do not get to as an adult, boys and girls, ladies and gentlemen, um do something that you saw on Tik Tok. um that feels fun or good or well suited whatever the phrasiology we want to use is when the mathematics around it don't math

40:07 100%. That that's called you know you you can't that's not reality. The math does not form to your desires. No,

40:17 the math does not form to your uh suited. The math forms to the math. The math when Sam and I were getting out of debt, uh we knew we wanted to start a business, but that takes time, right? You got to build it up. And so in the meantime, you have to work and you have to do the things that close the gap so that the math maths so you can continue to accomplish your goals financially while you accomplish your goals career-wise. You have to do it all at the same time. You can't just go, "Well, I want to be an actress or well, I want to own a business and I'm not going to do anything until I have that success."

40:55 That's not real. God designed me to be on the stage. Good. And in the meantime,

41:01 that means you're also destined to wait tables. That's what that means. Every time.

41:06 I mean, we're in Nashville. How do you get the next country music stars attention? Uh, waiter. That's exactly how you get it, right?

41:13 Yes. And so, I mean, you know, the the there's there's calluses that are involved in these things. Okay.

41:19 Yes. You know, God designed me. I'm suited for. I'm good. Me, too. We all are wonderfully made. We have these that that's why we have finding the work you're wired to do that we're going to send to Chris. Okay, that's all great, but you don't get to use this specialness

41:38 that card to try to violate mathematics. It it just it'll destroy your life. It's too harsh. It's mean out there, boys and girls. Mean out there. After the holidays, a lot of people start feeling budget pressure, and it's a wake-up call to get intentional. So listen, don't fall for buy now pay later cell phone plans that drag you back into debt. Boost Mobile keeps it simple with no contracts and no nonsense. Keep the phone you already own and pay just 25 bucks a month forever for unlimited data, talk, and text. That's real long-term value, and real peace of mind.

42:45 So budget like you mean it and go to boostmobile.com/ramsey today to make the switch. That's boostmobile.com/ramsey. Restrictions apply. See boostmobile.com/ramsey for details. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. In the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Jade Washaw, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author and author of a brand new book that lands in stores today. What no one tells you about your money. She's my co-host today. Open Phones at8255225. Lann is in Indianapolis. Hi, Lannne. How are you?

43:39 I am doing better than excellent, Mr. Dave. How are you? Just the same. What's up? Well, I got kind of an interesting one for you. Um, my husband and I run a construction company together. He started the business in 2018 before we met, um, which was 2021, engaged in 2022, and married in 2023. Um, I help him with some aspects of the business, but I'm not totally 100% full-time with it just yet. I still have a full-time job on the side or not on the side. It's the main job for me unfortunately. But um right now my current access in our bank's finances for the businesses as a signer because the bank I guess needs me to be listed as an owner with the state which wasn't a problem until recently. My husband wears many hats and doesn't need to take care of the minutia of running a business like fixing business associate debit cards for our team members. So I went into the bank to help an associate

44:45 with their debit card fix their pen and I wasn't allowed to because I wasn't an owner. So I asked them what we needed to do. I needed to file through the state, all that fun stuff. We asked our CPA, got some advice on what to do, and he told us the things that we needed to do. One of those things was we needed to assign business ownership percentage. Here's where my question comes in. As a married couple, um, following the biblical principles, I said 50/50 because we are one flesh. We do this thing together. Um, and that's just where my mind and my heart was at. My husband has his business uh what I call business glasses and hearing aids in. So his his mindset was thinking business and he came back with 5149 and that that didn't sit right with me.

45:37 We talked about it. Um something came up and we had to table it. And so um my mind was kind of racing. I was emotional and so I went to the

45:48 Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Yeah. Regardless of the percentage that's on the piece of paper, how will the two of you treat this business?

46:00 We treat it as we both own it. Own it. It's You're going to treat it as 50/50 regardless of what's on the paper.

46:08 I bet. Aren't you? Yeah. I mean, it's kind of what we do now. I kind of think you do now. I kind of think that's the way you're all both. You were in agreement until he went, "Well, that's a little weird." Okay. So, I'll give you an example. I I we have several LLC's that I own 0%. And Sharon owns all of it.

46:30 Oh, in case some idiot decides that Dave Ramsey's got a target on his butt and he finds an idiot lawyer to help him.

46:38 Makes sense. So, and you know how much I'm worried about that about about Sharon having a 100% of it? Not at all. cuz I told her if she leaves I'm going with her.

46:50 Yes. You're stuck together. Period. That's it. So, I mean I I think the spirit of your marriage is really what matters in this discussion is what I'm saying,

47:02 right? So, I couldn't care less what's on the paper. Um I think your 50/50 is the spirit.

47:11 And when he said 5149, it violated your spirit. It's like what? More than you were actually worried about him quote being in charge because we all know he's not in charge. He's not doing the details. You are.

47:27 You already covered that. Yeah. And he knows that, right? But it's as if he wanted to own own, you know, have that one little trump card somewhere in case he thought he could flex at some point. Haha, that's funny. But um you know, I mean, say this is kind of the way this went down. Am I missing something?

47:46 No, it was more so like he's uh he's been married before so he understands things happen and so his mindset was sort of protective mode.

47:54 Yeah. It won't matter if 41 5149 if if things go down u he's going to have to take care of you anyway and it's going to look suspiciously the same. And I had a feeling this was going to be the answer because uh I I started thinking about it's like it's just it's it's splitting hairs because all I need to do is have some ownership to change debit cards.

48:19 Yeah. You already had practical spiritual ownership and for that matter legal because he would have had to deal with the asset if he owed 100% of it in the event of a divorce. It's got to be on the plate. Mhm.

48:33 It's up there for to get cut in half just like everything else is. Just like his 401k has got his name on it if he works in corporate America. But guess what? You're going to take a big bite out of it in the event of a divorce. The wife is Hello.

48:48 Right. Even though your name's not on it. So that's the same exact thing. So he's not he you don't get clear of the worst case scenario with this part of the discussion. you get clear of that this part of the discussion with a prenup if you want to go that way or a postnup in this case which is really hairy. So no I I I think as long as the two of you are in spirit we own everything together. We're doing life together. We're going forward together. I don't care what the paper says,

49:17 right? And I mean does it really matter what the paper says? And the the other thought was in case something happens to him, continuing to let the business run smoothly as a 1% owner, I could still do that.

49:29 Yeah. But I'm right now on that LLC I'm talking about, if uh my wife passes away in a car wreck, I don't have any ownership in that.

49:39 Now, I have a will and she has a will in an estate plan, it's instantly mine and I've got control over it. But I don't have

49:47 the bank. I've got to take documentation to the bank to start cash and check. I'm on the checking account. But I mean, if I wanted to close that thing down, I've got to, you know, I've got to bring documentation and death certificates and stuff now because I'm not I'm not even on the ownership of it at all.

50:03 Right? So, I've still got all that crap to deal with. It's just it's just your worst case scenarios are always worst case scenarios. So the diff the big deal is are we okay in our marriage relationship and are we aligned on how we view marital assets that it's ours as you said and you you clearly articulated that Lan and beautifully by the way good job

50:27 so I mean do you have Sam and you have a business we do and there's things especially now that I'm not part of it that I'm not part of it but I also know that if something happened to him all of that. I would be able to have then have access to whatever it is and it would be willed to me and all. I know like he said 50/50 in spirit. I think what really bothered you is what Dave said that he said it in a technical way and it had you questioning if you guys view yourselves the same way.

50:55 Mhm. And I would just ask about that at that point. It's really not about the business. It's really not about the money or anything like that. It's just, hey, when you said that, that just that hurt my feelings cuz I thought that we were 50/50 and it kind of made it feel like you were going for some power there.

51:08 Ooh, good call, you know. Yeah, it was kind of a flex. Yeah, it was a little flex.

51:13 I had this before I had you. Sometimes you just got to flick it. Woo! Flick it back down.

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53:58 Ramseyolutions.com/store or anywhere great books are sold. Becca is with us in Denver. Hi, Becca. How are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you guys?

54:09 Better than we deserve. What's up? I had a strategy question. So, I am in baby step number two. I am 35, single, um, paying off a good amount of debt. Um, and I had a question about my student loans. Um, I'm about 46,500 in student loan debt.

54:28 Um, but they're technically in forbearance. Um, and I guess my question is I I've seen some horror stories of, you know, people opening up their student loan accounts and oh my gosh, they've doubled or whatever because of interest. Um, but my question is, is it worth it to budget a, you know, a specific amount to my student loans, even though I technically don't have a minimum on them right now, and use whatever that amount could be towards you, my my credit card is my big focus right now.

55:02 Okay. Um, I I get your concern, but you're not going to make any extra progress by doing that. you're gonna slow down your progress is all.

55:15 Yeah, the math is exactly the same. Actually, it's a little better if you pay it on the credit card because the credit card is a higher interest rate. So, if you're interest, let's say you were going to give a $100 to the student loan and the interest rate on it's 5%. And instead, you put the $100 on the credit card and the interest on that's 24%. Well, obviously the $100, you know, you you saved more interest by reducing the 24% account. agreed.

55:43 Mhm. Yeah. Okay. So, it's it's mathematically incorrect to do what you're talking about. But I'm not as worried about that as I am that I just want you to pound that credit card with viciousness.

55:56 Yeah. And then get and then open up the smallest student loan and pound it with viciousness when you get to it in the debt snowball.

56:03 Yeah. Yeah. I Yeah. I'm about uh in total in debt, I'm about uh 92,400 in debt. Um I have about 3,000 in medical from an ER visit.

56:17 Uh my credit my credit card is at like 165. My car is at 266 and student loans.

56:25 Uh I work in ministry. I make about $76,000 a year. Got an awfully expensive car.

56:31 Mhm. Yeah. Okay. And yeah, I my car my car payment is like 543. What's your car worth?

56:40 Um, that's I I'm not good with car stuff if I'm being honest with you. Uh, it's a 2021 Infiniti QX50.

56:47 That'd be my homework for you tonight is to go on Kelly Blue Book and see what it's worth and if it's, you know, if you if you're not, get a hoopy for a while and start pounding and not have a $500 car payment for a while. I don't want you to drive junk the rest of your life. But I'd love for you to drive junk so you could get rid of the rest of this junk

57:06 because with that 543 back in your pocket, you'd be finished with that medical debt very quickly.

57:11 Boom. Boom. I and I have taken on um because I am serious about my credit card debt. I actually have two other with my full-time job. I actually have two other part-time jobs now. Um

57:23 Wow. like at the grocery at the grocery store just um you know doing some shopping and then uh I have friends who opened up a business so I'm helping them on the weekends.

57:32 Good. So every month every month what are you bringing in? Do you know? Um both part-time jobs I actually just kind of started. I'm hoping between the both of them per month I can make like maybe like 500 at one per month and then 600 at the other just because I'm just doing them on the weekend.

57:48 Yeah, that's good. Okay. So here's you're you're not afraid of hard work and you're focusing on this. These are all really, really good signs that you're going to win. Okay? And so what I'm trying to do is how quick can I plow through? What mathematical shovel can I use to shovel $92,000?

58:06 Mhm. That's what I'm looking at. And so if I do $30,000 a year, it's three years. That's 20 That's $2,500 a month.

58:16 Okay. If I sold the car, it's two years, right? And that's how my brain starts thinking cuz I want to be free.

58:25 Cuz if you didn't have a single payment in the world, including these student loans hanging over your head that you're not making payments on right now, but you're worried about building up, but if you didn't have any of this in your background, and you your freedom in the spirit to do ministry would be completely different. Would you agree with me on that?

58:44 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I actually like the thinking behind that, and I want to like double click on it. when you're looking at a high number of debt like in your case 92,000 some folks have 150,000 Sam and I had 400 you know 60,000 what you have to do is focus on that monthly number because it's overwhelming to say I have $92,000 of debt I need to pay off but if you reverse engineer it and you've already done the math to say if I pay $2500 a month I'm out in two years then the only thing you need to focus on is $2500 a month I got to make $2500 on the side jobs yeah The extra is what I'm saying.

59:20 Yeah, I'm saying. And we got,00 on the side job. So that means we only need out of our budget X and which means we might be able to do 3500,

59:27 right? But that smaller number that's a lot easier for your brain to break down and go after than 92,000. Do you see what I'm saying?

59:35 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Forget. So it's it's a it's a much it's a it's a easier it's easier to digest for you and then you can actually go for it.

59:41 Then what we're going to do is we're going to get on a tight budget, increase income, which you've already done the increase income part. We're going on beans and rice, rice and beans. We're going to list these debts regardless of interest rate, smallest to largest, pay minimum payments, which is what generated your call on everything. Nothing on the student loans right now, and cut up the credit cards, and we're going to attack that smallest debt, which is probably one of those stupid little medical bills. We're going to pay off a whole bunch of those in month one.

1:00:08 And then in month two, we're going to start hammering this credit card like it's evil. And you're going to start seeing Samuel L. Jackson on the TV and start yelling at him. start yelling at him. What's in your wallet?

1:00:20 My wallet's got cash in it. Hello. With my medical bills, with my medical bills, I'm actually um I'm not as worried as with the medical bills because my employer actually I have an HSA and they contribute to it very generously. So, I kind of not that I don't count it, of course I do, but I'm like, "Oh, that's another account that I when the money comes in, then I just spend from that."

1:00:40 When does the money come in? Uh I contribute to it monthly. Um, and then they contribute a nice portion uh quarterly.

1:00:50 Okay. All right. So, a little free money. Yeah. We're still going to we're going to take that free money, but we're not going to wait on it 5 years. Okay.

1:00:57 Right. So, I want you to I still want you to clear those debts smallest to largest. So, really, you get to screw around with this HOA stuff, HSA stuff about three or four months, and after that, you need to just pay it off.

1:01:09 Mhm. Just get it done. Get it done. I am worried about all this. I want it out of your life because I want you free, my friend.

1:01:17 Yes. Okay. We're going to set you up with every dollar which will help you the budgeting app and it also it helps you walk through. It's not just budgeting anymore. It's got all the stuff in it now and it's going to walk you through all the steps we're talking about. It's going to coach you along the way. It's very personalized now. It's very the algorithm on it is incredible and it's all we're going to give it to you. Okay? So you hang on, Becca, and Christian will pick up and get you signed up for every dollar and it's going to walk you through this whole process. So you're going to win because you're paying attention. Yes. You're not afraid of hard work and you're learning new things you never learned before.

1:01:50 You've been victimized by these things and instead you're going to turn around, put your thumb on the put your foot on the neck of it and say, "No more. No more. We're done."

1:01:58 And you know, you got to stand on the neck of the snake and say, "You're done. You don't have you don't have a shot anymore buddy."

1:02:05 Absolutely. Absolutely. I like what you said about the I keep thinking about that when you're thinking about a grand total of debt. It helps so much to jump into every dollar and do the financial road map so you can see the snapshot

1:02:19 with what I'm earning now. How long will it take? And it might show you something like three or four years and you get to say that's too long.

1:02:25 So I add the I'm going to add more money to it. And then when you get to it's too long I'm going to sell the car.

1:02:30 Yes. Or it's too long. I'm going to have a garage sale and reverse engineer it back. And then you can focus on what are the three things I do to get that money. I sell the car. I do the garage sale. And instead of focusing on, you know, $200,000 of debt and I'm stuck.

1:02:43 I'm stuck. I'm stuck. Yeah. The way you eat an elephant is a bite at a time. That's exactly right. This is Dave Ramsey. We all want to know that the money we give to charity is doing something that matters, that it's making a real change, giving someone lasting hope. And here's one way to make sure of that. Give to Pre-born. They're the real deal. Proven, transparent, and changing lives every day. I trust Pre-born, and you can, too. They're on the front lines of the battle for life. Partnering with clinics to offer free ultrasounds to mothers in crisis.

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1:04:34 That's pre-born.com/ramsey. ABCnews.com reporting. The stock market recorded st recorded stellar year-end returns for 2025 when the markets closed before New Year's. Performance marked three straight years of double-digit gains. The S&P finished up the year up 16%.

1:05:06 Oh, Jade, we often talk about around here how the only thing you hear on the news about the markets is bad news.

1:05:12 That's right. They never report good news. So, let me give you the good news. Okay. The stock market was up, the S&P in 2023, 26%.

1:05:23 The stock market was up in 2024, 25%. The stock market was up in 2025, 16%. That's a total of 67%. in three years. That means three years ago, if you had $100,000 in your 401k in a basic growth stock mutual fund, if you've added nothing to it, you now have almost doubled it at 170.

1:05:50 That's right. That's not on the news. No. And that's a lot of money that you missed

1:05:57 because you were watching the news worrying about government shutdowns and tariffs and artificial intelligence bubbles, whatever that is, and whatever else it is that you believe that you're going to watch bad news for every day. So meanwhile, I'm just the tortoise. I just keep investing every week, every day, every month. I just put a little more in. A little more in. And all these years, 65 years old, I've been doing that over and over and over.

1:06:33 Not worrying about what the news said. We've outlived the internet. We've outlived Sirius XM radio. We've outlived Bill Donahue and Sally Jesse Raphael.

1:06:48 That's a blast from the past. Wow. I'm trying to think of weird stuff from the past. Yeah. And here we are. And you know, you just keep investing and you just keep living and you keep and guys, you're not going to hear this on the news. Okay? The only thing you hear on the news is when the whole world's coming to an end, right? And what happened to the stock market when the president did so and so or when he didn't do so and so or when Iraq did so and so or Iran did so and so or name it and it's in the news and then oh the market the market the market up 16% last year 16%.

1:07:26 That means if it had done half, if you have a mutual fund that sucks so bad that your mutual fund did half as good as the stock market, you still did three times what your high yield savings would have done.

1:07:41 It's a big deal. Smoke on that for a second. Okay. Hello. This is a big deal, y'all. This is why you start investing, you keep investing, and you don't stop investing. And if you need to turn off the news, it's not a bad idea. And this is also why you get started on the things we teach so you don't miss out on stuff like this because the time is

1:08:00 get your butt out of debt so you get to take advantage of this. Yes, the time is passing

1:08:03 cuz I mean if you got a million in there during this time it's looking nice. That means you made $700,000.

1:08:11 Oh yeah. In three years on your million sleeping. If you got 10 million Mhm. You just made $7 million on your 10 million in three years. Now, is that a guarantee? No. Is it going to happen in the next three years? No.

1:08:30 But it explains why you're in such a good mood. That and coffee. Yes. I love it. Oh, that's fun. Tyler. Tyler's with us in Toledo. Hey, Tyler. What's up?

1:08:44 Hey, thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? So, my fiance and I kind of have a interesting situation, I guess. We've been working a side hustle for uh about two years now um at our farm and she's been the manager and I kind of just I get to do the fun stuff, sit on the tractor and drive around and pretend I can help him. Well, um, so the previous owner passed away and now the son owns it and he's, you know, 18 hours away in Oklahoma. So, he's trying to sell it to us. So, it would be buying out the business and the house and we've been looking at houses.

1:09:27 I'm sorry. The the business is what? A farm. The It's a It's a horse farm. So, it'd be a boarding facility. We have

1:09:36 Are you going to get the land? Yep. We'd get the land, we get the house, we get all

1:09:41 What is the land and the house worth? About 3/4 of a million to 800,000. Okay. And what does this business profit?

1:09:52 The profit right now is about 8,000 a month. Okay. Right. Um Okay. And what does he want to sell it for? um hasn't given us a hard number yet. We're still in the financial stages, the planning, beginning stages of it right now, but we're he's talking like 650 to 750.

1:10:17 So, he's going to sell you a $750,000 piece of real estate for $650,000 and give you a free business

1:10:28 pretty much. He just wants Why? That doesn't feel right. Why? Well, well, he wants us to have it and wants us to run it in, you know, under his dad's legacy and all that good stuff. And he's still got younger siblings in the area and

1:10:42 Okay. Um, so let me let me poke let me poke a second and make sure cuz when I hear something's too good to be true, you know what the saying is, right?

1:10:53 If something sounds too good to be true, it's because it's too good to be true.

1:10:56 Yeah. So, is this land and house really worth this or are you just wishing it was? No, that's I mean, you know, that's what Zillow says and that's what the last estimate was. Um I think five years ago.

1:11:11 Then then that means there's something on the business side that's Well, I'm not saying this, but it feels like something on one of these sides isn't performing the way it seems.

1:11:20 If if I mean, this guy really likes y'all. He really likes you. Like $400,000 likes you. Is that what I'm That's what I'm saying.

1:11:32 Okay. Yeah. No, I I hear what you're saying. Okay. So, I I really want to dig into this if I'm you guys because I I if if this is if these numbers are all accurate, this is a sweet sweet freaking deal. Okay. Now, how does he want to be paid?

1:11:49 That's what we're trying to figure out right now because we've been, you know, planning our lives. We're supposed to be getting married in September of this year.

1:11:59 Good. Um, and then we were planning on, you know, buying a house. Yeah. Get married before you close this deal. If you're going to close this deal, get married before you close the deal. Now, the um the $8,000 a month profit.

1:12:14 Is that after you're paid and your wife is paid by the old man that died? That is after everybody's paid, all that good stuff.

1:12:24 And what do you get paid? Um, well, right now I'm currently working for freeboard for my horse.

1:12:31 What were you getting paid when the old man was alive? About $12 an hour just for barn work.

1:12:38 Okay. So, a month in a month you would make in a month you would make what? Uh, we'll call it 500 bucks a month.

1:12:46 Nothing. Okay. And what is your wife being paid? Your fiance to be wife being paid? She's making about three grand a month over there.

1:12:57 Okay. So, let's pretend for a second. Geez. That you gave uh almost all of the profits from the business after you all live on 30 after you live on $40,000 a year, which is what you're making. Okay? and you live on the property and and you give the $100,000 a year roughly to the son and we're going to give you almost all like 95% of the profit goes to you until we get to 650. Would he do that deal?

1:13:33 I guess that would be something I'd have to bring up with him, but I would think so.

1:13:36 That' be take you about six years to work it out. Mhm. You'd be able to make $40,000 for six years and then the whole thing would be free and clear.

1:13:44 Yeah. And that I wouldn't quit my full-time job either. My full-time job. Oh, you have a full job.

1:13:50 Oh, yeah. I'm a I'm a brick layer. So Oh, I missed that part of the conversation cuz you didn't bring it up. Okay,

1:13:55 even better. Yeah, I didn't bring that. This is This has been a side hustle for us.

1:13:59 I got you. Riding the tractor for the fiance is a side hustle. I got it. You know what? And I also think this deal, if if he likes the sound of it, that's going to give you a good indicator if if those profit numbers are right. But if he's like, I would never do that deal, then I definitely want to dig deeper. a percentage of profit after you make enough to live on a healthy like all the profit almost until he gets his money and then he's done. And then if there's no profit, he don't get his money.

1:14:42 I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So, I know what it's like to have people counting on you. Your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did. We got Netswuite. That was years ago, and we've never looked back. See, Netswuite isn't just for tech giants.

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1:15:55 That's netsweet.com/ramsey. Today's question of the day is brought to you by why refi. When it feels like your private student loans have buried your future, why refi can dig you out? They can help you. That is with low fixed rate refinancing and a clear path forward. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey. That's the letter y refy.com/ramsey. Not in all states.

1:16:33 Okay. Today's question comes from Lucas in Arkansas. He says, "How long is too long to save for a down payment on a house? We're expecting a baby soon and will go down to a one income once he arrives. Uh to purchase a modest but well-built home in our area, we would have to save over 120,000 as a down payment in order to qualify with one income. We're debtree, but it will take us years to get there." Um, so there's there's a couple things that I'm thinking about here. Um, when we teach the baby steps, baby step 3B is when you're saving for a down payment. And then after that comes baby step four where you're investing your 15%. And I think Dave, what happens is people go, "Okay, I want to do 3B, but I don't want to sacrifice baby step four in the time in the market." Like we talked about the last segment. How do I kind of juggle that together? Because the truth is obviously if you have focus and you take

1:17:27 all the money you're going to put more money towards the down payment. But with a long horizon like this, do you want to really go 5 6 years or whatever the time frame is and not invest? So I would probably split the difference.

1:17:38 Probably once I got past the two I would say two to three years. Is that what you would say? Two to three years is when I'd say okay no more putting every dollar to the down payment. Now I'm going to split it and I'm going to try to do some towards retirement. Not miss out there. And and I know that that's a sacrifice. We we rarely say to do multiple things at one time, but in this case, it's all good.

1:17:59 Yeah, it's all good. I would do 100% towards the down payment for two to three years, and then you have to adjust after that if you haven't gotten there.

1:18:07 But the other thing, Lucas, is this. Um, you know, your income during that time is probably going to go up.

1:18:13 Um, your personal income, her income is going to disappear. Oh, wait a minute. Maybe we don't need to do that exactly that way. If we want to buy a house,

1:18:20 that's true. You can think maybe she needs to find some work athome type work, something that's flexible where she's home with the kid

1:18:27 and does some work at home. Well, uh, baby is sleeping and so forth. And so, um, yeah, we need an alternative where mom creates an income

1:18:39 and that that'll that'll change the picture, too. Um, and then of course also u you know what you're saying is here's the thing. You can't just yell at the sky and say, "My wife's going to stay at home and we're going to buy a house

1:18:59 in our 20 in our 20s." In our 20s happen. Yes. It doesn't, you know, shazam. It doesn't work right. And so uh you you are making a choice and it's a good choice if you ask me to say mom wants to be home with the baby.

1:19:20 That's a fine choice. I would never shame you for that choice. But it is a factor in an equation.

1:19:26 It's you just cut your freaking income in half. That's right. And so you are deciding not to be able to afford a house as quickly

1:19:34 because you're sacrificing one for the other. Or you could say the opposite of that, like a lot of ladies that work here at Ramsay full-time. I'm looking at several of them while I'm saying this, right? Jade, my daughter Rachel, and you know, Kelly across the glass and so on. We have kids. We are raising a family. And we are professional ladies.

1:19:56 And um you know, we we work around that. And that's it's not only for money, but it's also what you've chosen to do with your life. Okay.

1:20:04 Uh it's also for money. And so um I've noticed that we pay y'all. And so that kind of stuff. So

1:20:11 it plays a big part. It's for money. Hello. So um you know, and so I I think that's the thing. you you can just decide that that's what you're going to do. But by deciding that, you're also deciding some other things.

1:20:24 That's right. There's some unintended consequences or they should be actually intended unintended consequences is my point.

1:20:30 You say by definition, I'm going to choose to live in that neighborhood because we have one income instead of this other neighborhood because we have one income or this other type of house or whatever, this nicer property, right? Mhm.

1:20:44 And by definition, we're going to have to buy something that's u a little different to get our foot in the door to get started on this home ownership thing because we're choosing to do this on one income. And I I don't think it's a bad thing, but you don't get to just say I I do whatever I want

1:21:02 and yell at the sky. You can't yell at the sky. It doesn't work. You know, you you still have to there's mathematics involved in all this. And it's it's um you know the the this idea that when money is one place, it by definition can't be another place. It it's a fixed thing. It it doesn't it it doesn't float around. It's not omnipotent.

1:21:24 So, hey guys, speaking of homes, buying or selling is a big deal. The market is picking up. I predict a uh a robust spring. Right now, we're sitting at about 5%, just a little bit over 5% on a 15-year fixed rate. uh the median house prices have been holding pretty steady right around that low 400,000 mark for quite a while now and with these interest rates ticking down uh we're about to see these markets take off and so if you're thinking about buying a home this is a really good time to start getting your act together get out of debt have your emergency fund in place and if you want to learn more about the housing market trends and get some free tools to help you with your buy and sell and you're doing all that with confidence go to ramseyssolutions.com/market and we'll get you going.

1:22:10 Julia is in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Hi, Julia. How are you? Hi. Doing good. How are you?

1:22:16 Better than I deserve. What's up? All right. So, my husband and I are starting Babyset 2 this month with $75,397 in debt. Um, so when would it be most advantageous to refinance our balloon mortgage?

1:22:33 Oo, immediately. That's a panic. When is the balloon due? So, uh, the balloon is up in 2029.

1:22:43 Gez. Um, so our current interest rate is 5.5%. Yeah. And if we refinance now, that'll give us about 6.6%.

1:22:54 No, it won't. I just said just a moment ago, 15ear fix right now is 5%. Really?

1:23:03 Yeah. We've been watching. Wow. We've been watching the cuz we just did budgeted everything and we were googling the interest rates and it said 6.6

1:23:13 between. Yeah, it's going to be between 5.5 and 5.08. Yeah. Right. Right. Right now it's it's hovering in the low fives for a 15-year fixed this week as you and I are talking. Now, I don't know when people are going to be listening to this particular version of the podcast, but yeah, at the moment you and I are talking, that's what we're looking at. So, call Church Hill Mortgage and talk to them about refinancing. If you roll 100% of your refinance, if you got a lot of equity,

1:23:38 uh yeah, we have uh 100 to 12. Just roll your refinance cost in and nothing out of pocket.

1:23:45 Okay. And get rid of this balloon cuz this thing's hovering over your head and you're just inviting you're inviting an earthquake in your life.

1:23:56 Okay? You know, you know, you ever heard the saying, if anything can go wrong, it will Murphy's law.

1:24:01 Yes. As you approach this balloon, if you leave the balloon in place, you increase the likelihood of job loss, medical problems, all these things that happen at exactly the wrong time, screw up your income, and keep you from being able to refinance and you lose the house.

1:24:21 Okay, that's what I don't want. Okay, right now everything's sitting pretty and sassy. Let's not do a bunch of little half percent math and try to screw something up here. Let's get rid of this danger that you've signed up for in your life. This is nightmarishly suicidal. You've got to get this off your home before something happens and you're not able to

1:24:41 right now while you can. It's called get it while the getting's good. Right. Yes.

1:24:47 Man, that stuff balloons scare me to death. Can y'all tell? Oh, yeah. I hear the fear in my voice. It turns into anger. Yeah. Oh, man. And I can't stand it because these people get stuck and you know when we end up with them in financial counseling with one of our coaches is they're having to sit down because they are stuck and they lost a job or you know their sister got cancer or whatever and they've got all these income problems and credit problems and stuff's popped up

1:25:14 or some kind of identity theft thing blew up their credit score taking them six months to get it fixed and they can't get refinanced in the meantime. All this other crap happens just exactly at the time you're doing that. It's just a disaster. Oh, yucko. Yucko yucko. Please act like your hair is on fire and get rid of that thing. Quick, quick, quick, quick, quick. You're scaring me.

1:26:14 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author and author of a brand new book that hits the streets today called What No One Tells You About Money: The Real Key to Getting Unstuck from Someone Who's Been There. You do need a copy of this book. It's available today anywhere great books are sold. John is in Los Angeles. Hey, John. How are you?

1:26:40 I'm doing good. How are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up? So, uh, my situation, I'm trying to figure out, uh, the practicality of purchasing a home in or around the Los Angeles area.

1:26:55 It's very, very expensive. Um, I I think I do relatively well income-wise. What do you do? What do you make?

1:27:04 So, this year I made $200,000. That's pretty good. Um, right around there. Yeah. And but even with, you know, that relatively high income, uh it still feels a bit out of reach. Um in 2024, I I paid off

1:27:18 all of mine and my wife's uh student loans were 100% debtree. Way to go. Um but

1:27:25 yeah, but um that that down payment still seems like a little far-fetched. And even if that is achieved, the monthly mortgage payments, like honestly, I mean, not regardless of the interest rate, but it's going to be a lot. Yeah. cuz uh you know the the fixer uppers out here run you about 850 or like 800 to 850. So,

1:27:45 and that's no power. Yeah, exactly. It's it's a very it's a it's definitely a fixer oper. And um kind of just trying to navigate.

1:27:56 What do you do for a living? Um I am in sales for a large Fortune 10 company. Okay. Is it tied to Los Angeles? No, it's not.

1:28:08 Okay. So, why Los Angeles? That's Well, sorry. I Let me Let me rephrase that. So, my my career is in Los Angeles. I am a I am directly correlated with my territory out here.

1:28:21 Oh, okay. Okay. That's what I was asking. Yeah. So, it is tied to Los Angeles. Okay.

1:28:25 Yes. Okay. Um well, I don't think you're the the numbers that you're giving are uh wrong. And I think you've you've realistically assessed this and it's kind of like, well crap, I thought $200,000 a year was a lot of money, you know, it's like, golly, this is weird. And that's the way it feels. It feels that way to me every time I hear it. And it's still the the reality of the math is what you're giving me. And I I think you everything you said I think was the truth. I don't think there was anything as exaggerated or fatalistic or anything there. So um you know the the thing is uh how old are you guys?

1:29:02 I'm 24. Okay. All right. That's good news. Okay. And what did And that the 200,000 includes your wife's income.

1:29:10 No, she stays at home. We had a child. Okay. All right. So, it doesn't include her income. Okay. Good. All right. Um the uh So, that's your household income. You're doing really well, man. For 200k, you're killing it.

1:29:22 Um Yeah. So, you got um two or three options or ways of looking at this. And that is one, you could say, okay, I'm in Los Angeles for a while. This is my adventure. Probably not going to spend my life here. And so if I rent for three or four years and see how the career thing goes, that's not the end of the world.

1:29:42 And then you end up moving to a market that you can actually afford and hopefully you can make the same kind of money somewhere. Okay, that's that's one thing that could happen. Okay, another thing that could happen is you say, "Okay, I'm going to scratch and claw and I'm going to buy this little dinky house for $800 or $900,000. It's a fixer upper to at least get my foot in the door

1:30:02 and then at least I own something, right? And at least then as as as as prices go on up, I get to ride the wave instead of being crushed by the wave. Right.

1:30:11 Right. So you you you you sacrifice uh home ownership being like a dream come true. Instead, it's like barely getting in.

1:30:23 And even still, you'll still have to embrace a bit of a a timeline on this. Yeah. And just knowing that going in so you can set realistic expectations on both sides, what you'll get for the money and how long it'll take you to get the money to get it.

1:30:35 And that's an okay strategy as well. And it might be two or three years. That's not the end of the world.

1:30:40 It's not the end of the world. Okay. Yeah. The other strategy, the other strategy is to start thinking about, okay, where do I want to live

1:30:48 where I can buy a piece of real estate because I can't buy a piece of real estate in Los Angeles because you literally live in one of the easily top five most expensive cities in the world.

1:31:00 Yeah. I mean, can you just realistically speaking as I mean, you're making 200,000 between you and your wife. Can you guys live on half that? Can you live on 100,000?

1:31:09 Yeah. So, um, we can, but and the 200,000 I do want to specify is before taxes. And, um,

1:31:17 and we're talking I'm talking round numbers with you. If you start if you start chunking somewhere around 100 grand away though, you'd have 300 grand away in three years. That's what she's saying.

1:31:26 Yeah. Yeah. We can we can live on half that because that's what you're looking at. I mean, I'm just and again, I'm round numbering this. I'm just plugging it in. So, I'm looking at it with you. But if you commit to a three or four year journey on this and do what Dave said, I definitely think that's worth it cuz again, you're getting your foot in the door and you're climbing you're climbing the ladder at that point, the real estate ladder.

1:31:46 And I don't think the the LA real estate is bad. I think it's excellent. It's just really expensive. It's just really expensive. I mean, it's that simple, you know?

1:31:55 For sure. And and also like my career is here and I could see like a lot of positive career growth like in this area. Yeah. It's just kind of like that that mental battle with like, well, is it is it practical to stay?

1:32:08 Yeah, it's practical to stay for a while. It might not be your 10year dream career though.

1:32:15 Yeah. You know, it might be. It's okay if it is. And if you got a lot of growth and you know, that's the other thing. If your career continues to hockey stick, I mean, dad gum, dude, you're 24, you're killing it at 200 grand. That's amazing.

1:32:27 Yeah. You're stud. Okay. So, I mean, what if you went to 300 and then 400? Well, these numbers all start to change real fast,

1:32:34 very quickly. That's right. So, I don't I don't know what your comp schedule is or what this thing looks like on your career, but

1:32:40 you're an impressive young dude. I know that. I got to believe he's making more in three to four years from now.

1:32:45 I think he is. And I think also that you've done a very dispassionate, logical, there's no shaking your fist at the sky.

1:32:55 He's looking at it for what it is. I'm mad. This is not fair. There's nothing none of that tone in what you're doing, which is the the first clue that you're actually going to make it probably.

1:33:04 Yeah. He was not very emotional. No, he's not. But there's no there's no like this isn't fair. It's like, you know, we get that a lot, you know. It's like But I understand it's not fair, but I can't you know, your feelings don't

1:33:17 The math your math doesn't care about your feelings, you know. So that that's the thing. So I I think you're sharp young dude. I think you're going to get there. Um, and I would just sit right I'd sit tight, start saving some money and just monitor your career and monitor the market and save like a crazy man and get your foot in the door.

1:33:36 And what you said just then is so so true because yeah, he wasn't he wasn't emotional. He wasn't whining. But a lot of people they do they look at the numbers and it feels overwhelming to them. So they don't even start, Dave. But if you just start putting aside

1:33:48 or worse, they ignore the math and go buy something that crushes even worse. Crushes them

1:33:53 even worse because it's just not fair. Home ownership is not reachable with reasonable. Ramsay's not right. Not reasonable. Oh crap. It ain't got anything to do with Ramsay.

1:34:02 Just start. You know, it's got to do with you. I've already got my house. It's not to do with me. It's got something to do with you.

1:34:09 So, what are you going to do? Are you going to crush yourself because you had a little temper fit on the candy aisle and buy something you can't afford? That that drives me nuts. Please don't do that.

1:34:19 He's the opposite end of the spectrum. This young stud is he's got it going on now. Like this guy, he's going to win. Heat. Heat. When you're stuck in a cycle with your money, try, fail, try again. It can feel like you're losing your mind. But you're not alone, and you're not crazy. That's why I wrote my brand new book, What No One Tells You About Money. It turns out money is emotional and no one's been talking about feelings like fear, shame, or guilt keeping you stuck until now. I'm going to tell you about the real fight and show you how to win. Get your copy today at ramseyolutions.com/store.

1:35:29 That's ramiesolutions.com/store. Mike's in San Diego. Hey, Mike. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Mike, I didn't push the button. Is that what you're saying? All right. I didn't push the button. Thank you.

1:36:05 Goodness. You'd think I know how to do this by now after 40 years. Hey, Mike. How are you?

1:36:09 Hey, I'm I'm doing great. How are you? Well, I'm kind of challenged right now, but other than that, what's up?

1:36:16 Well, um I had a question kind of honestly not kind of similar to the guy before, but um I'm 25 years old. Um I live in San Diego. Also work a job in software sales. And about 18 months ago, I started a side hustle that's kind of taken off a bit. And I'm really kind of looking for some guidance, I guess, from an entrepreneurial perspective on like when I should maybe consider doing that full-time versus um trying to rack up as much income as I can.

1:36:48 Good for you. So, what's it doing? How much you're making on the side hustle? So, I started it in summer 2024.

1:36:56 Mhm. Didn't really do much the first six months. Maybe like 5,000 in profit. Mhm.

1:37:01 Uh last year we did 68,000 in profit. And then this year I think we'll do about 100,000 maybe 120.

1:37:08 What do you make at your day job? Um about 175. I'm soft. Thank you. I'm in software sales. So some years it's 150, some years it's 200.

1:37:19 Yeah. It can just vary. Yeah. And you're So you're 25 and between the two you're making 300 grand. You're killing it, man.

1:37:27 Proud of you. Thank you. Okay. So how much time does the side hustle take? That's the thing. like it takes me probably I want to say 20 to 30 hours a week. My average day kind of looks like working on the business maybe from about 5 to 8:00 p.m. I'm fortunate enough to where I work remotely to where Yeah.

1:37:46 Um I can just kind of log off and start working on that. Are you married? I'm engaged.

1:37:53 Okay. All right. Wow. Yeah. It's kind of ideal right now. I mean, you're just stacking cash.

1:38:00 Yeah, pretty much. I've been able to sock a good amount of money away. Yeah. If if you worked double the hours, would you make double the money? Is it that cut and dry?

1:38:08 Um not not exactly. So the the business is very um online focused like it's it's very dependent on Facebook actually.

1:38:17 So um essentially what do you think the shelf life of the new business is? How long you think it's going to last before some platform takes you out or a shift a shift in technology or something? Yeah, that's a good question. Honestly, I I'm pretty optimistic about Facebook and the way they're kind of investing. I would say that I mean conservatively 10 or 15 years, but um you know, who knows, right? Like Google

1:38:43 I'm 100% 100% sure that Google and Facebook are going to do one thing. Take care of Google and Facebook,

1:38:53 right? And they don't give a crap about you. I can promise you. Okay? So, you need to be defensive about your platform usage and don't think that they're on your team, okay? Because u about the time you get something figured out, they turn it and screw you. I mean, we've been playing with these guys for 15 years since they started. I mean, I've been doing from the time back when SEO was a thing, you know, and not even exist anymore. So, um you know, whatever by by the time you get it figured out, they figure out a way to monetize everything you've been doing and then they flip it on you. So, I'm not cynical. I'm just telling you, you need to be realistic about your platform life uh blood. And it ain't 15 years. I'm not going to There's no way. Not without you iterating substantially. Now, it doesn't mean you're going out of business, but you're not going to do it the way you're doing it,

1:39:39 but probably 36 months and then they're going to change something. So, okay, cool. That's still awesome, man. Uh get off get off my entrepreneurial cynicism, but the uh um

1:39:51 All right. Uh D. Is there a reason to quit? No, I just feel that if I had more time and energy to put into the business, I could scale it um nonlinearly, if that makes sense.

1:40:09 Yeah, it does. Yeah. And I believe I believe you. I think you're right. We have a lot of systems in place that kind of run the business itself, but it is it is a volume game.

1:40:19 Yeah, sure. Um, so I think with more time and attention I could get it to a point to where it's making more. Um,

1:40:25 then you'll hit the point of diminishing returns curve on their time as well. But I do think you can make what I think you could easily make I don't even know what you're doing. Okay. But it just sounds like the trend line on this. You could make what you're making now if you went full-time.

1:40:38 Which I'm just curious on where your passion lies. Did you start the side hustle out of money or I just really like this field. I want to see if I can make uh do something in it and possibly make some money. Which one are you more passionate about?

1:40:50 Um, it's it's just honestly like a passion thing. Like it's it's actually adjacent to my career. So, I'm actually doing the thing that a lot of my clients are doing

1:40:59 in my uh career side. And honestly, I just kind of listen to them talk about what they were doing right and what they were doing wrong and it kind of inspired me to do my own version of it.

1:41:08 So, if you there's no ethical breach in that at all. No, no. It's it's completely independent from what they're doing. It's It's just a variation of it.

1:41:17 I got you. Just best practices. Yeah. Okay. Pretty much. Yeah. So, I mean, it kind of sounds like to you like I mean, it would be my dream to really be able to do it full-time, but awesome.

1:41:28 I definitely understand. When are you when are you getting married? Uh, next year. Like maybe 13, 14 months.

1:41:36 What's she make? Um, she is actually I talked her into helping me with the business about six months ago, which is why we saw um such strong growth.

1:41:47 Hm. And so is she doing that full-time? Yeah. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So, she was working as a like a web designer.

1:41:57 Uhhuh. Um, and I told her she wasn't she was doing it like contract freelance work. Wasn't enjoying it too much. And I said, "Hey, I'm really time locked here with uh with my job, but I really believe in this and I think you have the skill."

1:42:11 What could you hire someone to do what you're thinking about doing? What would it cost you in addition to her?

1:42:18 I'm not sure. I think that I've had experiences hiring people on Fiverr where they'll kind of take what you're doing and try to compete against you with it.

1:42:26 Um I'm not sure we have the capital to go out and hire somebody like W2. Um yeah, you do. You got 100 grand.

1:42:34 Well, I was going to say you paid yourself that. Did you pay her anything or that's part of the 100 grand?

1:42:38 Yeah. So, right now we're I'm basically splitting it. So, she's getting 50 and then I pay myself 50 and kind of run the expenses out of that.

1:42:47 All right. Um, so I love where you are. I love what you're doing. I love that you're thinking about it logically. Um, I think you guys are a power couple. So, you're not there's not a screw up. There's no uh no no uh check the box in the stupid column here. None of that's going to happen. Okay. It's only a question of what you want to do and what is best. All right. So, one idea that popped into my head, if I were sitting exactly where you are, and I'm very entrepreneurial and I'd rather work for myself than anybody cuz I'm too contrary to work for somebody. So, um, one idea that popped in my head is let's just burn the midnight oil until we get married.

1:43:26 I love that idea. and just crank this thing and see how high a stack of cash. Let's fill a bedroom full of cash over there. Okay?

1:43:34 Mhm. Just make some money. Okay? And during that time, you can start to see what some of the trend lines are in the platforms you're using and if your prediction or my cynicism, which one is more accurate? Um, and and and you know, if you do that and you turn it on, you come back from the honeymoon and you just made 200 grand on this thing and you want to punt the day job and go on, then go on.

1:43:58 And if the whole thing crashes in two or three years, you got a bedroom full of money and you made some money and you could go do it again. You go do something else because there's something you The beautiful thing about this is you can land like a cat on carpet when you're done because you've got the skills.

1:44:13 Yeah. Honestly, I love that idea. I've really been going back and forth between like I got a good job, I want to keep it. People tell me like it's a dream job, but also like I have on the other end.

1:44:24 I mean, you know how to do that job. It'll be waiting there if you ever want to go back to it. And you're at a great time of life where you can do exactly what Dave said. You're not married yet. You guys are in that time of adventure where it's like, you want to go? I want to go. Let's go do it.

1:44:37 Let's let's scramble here. We'll eat peanut butter and jelly. Yeah. Like we'll do whatever we need.

1:44:41 DZ. Let's make hay while the sun shines, baby. you know, and let and you know, after the marriage, quit if you if you make a bunch of money,

1:44:51 you know, I mean, you got to be making about what you're making or more, but if you are, then quit.

1:44:57 The downside of both of you doing this is if it goes sideways, your whole freaking deal goes sideways.

1:45:03 Your lack of diversification on your income base is a little scary, but it's okay. I think you got the margin to handle all of it, and I think you're on top of it. Listen up, guys, because I've got a big question for you. Where will you be with your money at the end of 2026? Will you be better off, worse, or exactly the same? Believe it or not, you get to choose. Look, I know there's a lot going on that can make you feel powerless over your money, but I want you to hear me. You're more in control than you think. You can turn your finances around. So, let me help you out. Start your year off with me and Dave Ramsey at our free Every Dollar Live stream event on January 8th. We're cutting through all the lies and all the chaos out there that's keeping you stuck. So, you have the clarity you need to finally get ahead. And you could even win $2,000 just for signing up. Listen, another year is going to pass anyway. So, decide

1:46:23 that this is the year you're going to take back control of your life and your money. Go sign up for the free live stream at everydoll.com/livestream. Logan is with us in Louisville. Hi, Logan. How are you?

1:46:46 Hi, Dave. I'm great. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? So, I am 26 years old and I bought my first house last May whenever I was 25 years old. And I'm kind of realizing that I probably made a very big mistake because I bought it on a 30-year uh mortgage uh with 5% down at 6 and 12% interest. And I'm wondering what I should do.

1:47:13 Okay. Is the home affordable? It is. Um it was $220,000 and uh the mortgage is 1623 a month.

1:47:25 And what's your household income? Uh, so I make $65,000 a year uh last year and I I work at a major auto factory in Louisville.

1:47:35 Sure. And um I will be eventually making $100,000 a year in about a year and a half or two years or so according to our union contract.

1:47:45 Uh and so I'm basically one I never heard. No sir. I do live with my girlfriend however.

1:47:51 Okay. um because she had to drop out of college and um her parents are aren't really uh supporting her financially and she didn't really have another option other than she had to e either move in with me or it was be homeless. So, uh I went ahead and moved her in and so she has about $10,000 in student loan debt and then I additionally have about $12,000 on an auto loan.

1:48:15 Okay. Well, you there's no we she has her life, you have your life. you're not married and so you're you have $12,000 in student loan, you have $12,000 car payment and you have a house payment that is tight right now. Okay. So, I I don't I don't think I would do anything. I think I sit right there. Um what I would do is as your income goes up and you need to clear this car debt off when those two things happen and these interest rates continue to go down, I would just refinance. And when you refinance, put it on a 15.

1:48:44 Okay? But, you know, you're going to get down sub fives probably this spring. Okay. So, refinance to the 15.

1:48:54 When when you can afford it. I don't I don't know when your income's going to go up. You can't afford it right now.

1:48:59 Correct. Yeah. So, when do you think you're going to be, you know, move making the move from 60 towards 100?

1:49:06 Uh, so we go up on a yearly basis. I'll be getting about a 10% raise in May. Okay. It's probably going to be the following May before you start talking about refinancing. You're probably you're probably in coast mode.

1:49:20 Okay. And then I actually have a lot of uh uh retire in my retirement account and then I've got some in an index fund that's not in a retirement account.

1:49:28 Pay off your car today. Question. What's in the index fund? Uh almost 14,000. Pay off your car. Pay off your car today.

1:49:36 Pay off the truck completely. Yes. Today. Okay. Got it. I was thinking you were going to say that. Yeah. And then let's build our emergency fund. And as far as the house, we're going to sit with the 30 and we're going to sit with the 6 1/2 until the rates drop and your income comes up and you can afford to refinance. And it's not going to kill you. We're talking about 18 24 months here. And you know, you'll be okay. It, like you said, it isn't what I would have signed you up for, but you're there now. And there's no there's no panic in these numbers. There's nothing here that's just destroying you or something.

1:50:08 It's just a a good lesson learned for next time you want to make a large purchase to wait till you're in a better position.

1:50:14 And don't be combining finances with girlfriends only with wives. Yes. Uh yes. I'm not even going to get into that. There were some things there.

1:50:25 Yes, there was some things there. Some things there. Britain is in San Antonio. Hi Britain. How are you?

1:50:33 Howdy, sir. How you doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So, I um I'm in a little bit of like a family pickle. I I have a brokerage account that was gifted to me for college graduation that has about 13,000 in it.

1:50:48 Um but based off the previous gentleman, you just told him to liquidate stuff and pay off the car today. I have a $7,000 car loan um for my wife's car. I have a $25,000 car loan for my truck. And I have about 40k in student loans putting us at about what's that 70 75k cumulative debt.

1:51:07 Yep. Um and my gross income is about 100k a year. Um my wife and I have been married four years. We got a 2-year-old and we got a baby in March.

1:51:17 Y'all are normal. So And you figured out normal is not fun. Yeah. No, I'm I'm tired of thinking, "Oh yeah, I make 100 grand a year and ago

1:51:29 and I'm broke." Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. So, yeah. So, you got your first piece of advice, which is to liquidate uh that non-retirement savings. That gets you the 13,000. So, her car is paid off and you're able to put a little onto the truck. Um, what does she drive? I'm just curious.

1:51:48 She drives a 2019 Jetta. Um, that's I don't know, probably got 78,000 miles on it. It's in really, really good shape.

1:51:57 What about your truck? What how good a shape is that in? Uh, it's in really good shape. It's a 24 Silverado I bought with 2500 miles on it. Um, with a little gift from her grandpa to

1:52:08 really knock down my payment. So, I only pay 500 bucks a month for it. Only 500 bucks.

1:52:14 Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. For I thought it was great for basically a brand new truck, but I mean, hindsight's 2020.

1:52:22 Um, but I I drive a lot for work, so I've depreciated. Yeah, I've got I put on like

1:52:27 means you're destroying the value of a brand new truck. You are. Listen, you're going to have to put the pedal to the metal on this debt. Um I want you have a great income, so that's good. But what's going to get you is this these 40,000 of student loans. It's easy to let that sit around and collect dust. But this is the time, you know, to to kick it up into high gear. I want you and your wife to get into every dollar. Have you have you jumped in there yet? I have not jumped into every dollar, but I um we use uh like Rocket Money and we sat down and did our financial planning for the year.

1:52:58 Well, there's the problem right there. I'm playing with you, but I'm going to give you a budgeting app that's actually going to help you and it's not going to sell you debt products along the way. So, Christian will pick up and make sure that you get every dollar. And I mean it. I'm not just, you know, trying to be funny towards a competitor. I'm saying that if you go into every dollar, their goal is to get you out of debt.

1:53:18 Yes, ma'am. the other budget you're using, that's not their goal. Their goal is just to keep you around as a customer. Later, they can sell you debt. We want to get you out and therefore in the app, it's going to ask you things about your life and you're going to be able to plug that in and then it's going to walk with you. You called into us to talk to us for a hot two two or three minutes. It's going to give you the advice we would give you step by step along the way so that you stay focused and actually get this done.

1:53:41 Very good. Bobby is in Pittsburgh. Hey, Bobby. What's up? Hey, how y'all doing?

1:53:47 Great man. How can we help? Um, I have a weird question I haven't heard before on your show. I have a minor son. Um, he received a $15,000 settlement from an accident he was in.

1:54:01 And I'm court ordered to put it into a federally insured bank until he reaches maturity.

1:54:09 Y, which is in 12 years. And I'm struggling to pick where to put it because returns are trash. Yep. And

1:54:17 which means the court is stupid and the court generally is stupid. It's what happens when lawyers do financial planning.

1:54:24 Lawyers that become judges that are stupid. Did I mention this is stupid? But you're still court ordered.

1:54:31 You're court ordered. It's aggravating as crud. Um yeah, you you you can't do what you should do with it, which is put it in a decent growth stock mutual fund.

1:54:39 That's terrible. You can't do it. So you're going to be in a high yield. You're going to be a high yield savings account at your local credit union or bank that's got federal insurance and you're barely going to keep up with inflation.

1:54:50 Exactly. I mean, everything I'm seeing is like one less than 1%. Oh, no, no, no. You can get three right now.

1:54:55 Yeah. Yeah. You get some high yield savings up around two, two and a half or three,

1:55:00 but um it's still a it's crime. It's a crime. It's still a crime. It's still a crime, but um I mean the whole thing was this kid got hurt and somebody's trying to take care of him here and then the judge is an idiot. So, yeah.

1:55:12 Well, I mean, the good thing is he currently have we have some sizable money for him and our daughter currently, but it would be really nice to add this to it.

1:55:20 Yeah, I would. Is there a I'm just asking, is there a way that you could get a a lawyer in order to to change that?

1:55:27 Yeah, but I'm not sure. I mean, if if you went from two to 10 or 2 to 12, okay, you make 10%, you make 1,500 bucks, I won't pay the lawyer.

1:55:36 So, it's not worth it. It's just the stupid law. I mean, it's not even the law. It's just a judge that doesn't know what the crap they're doing.

1:55:42 They don't They thought you were They thought you were going to take it to Vegas and put it on red,

1:55:46 you know. Let it run. Yeah. Run it. Run it. That's what they thought. But, you know, Nah, that's sad. Yeah. You're just going to have some money parked there and kids going to have 15 grand. Was not going to grow much.

1:56:17 Heat. Heat. Hey, George Camel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsay's Real Estate Home Base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love? So, if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to ramseysolutions.com/realestate.

1:57:08 That's ramseyolutions.comrealestate. Proverbs 14:15 says, "The simple believe anything, but the prudent give thought to their steps." Albert Einstein said, "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we use to create them."

1:57:49 There we go. Anthony is in Orlando. Hi, Anthony. How are you? Good. How are you?

1:57:55 Better than I deserve. What's up? All righty. So, I came to ask you about a financial decision I'm going to make. So, me and my fiance um are having a baby together, and the baby comes here in 2 months, and she currently has a car payment that is 26 grand. And um it's roughly $800 or more a month. O

1:58:29 and um we're deciding whether to try to refinance it and me I looked it up and everything and looked into it a little bit more and it said she says she owes around only 17 for the car and then the rest is mainly like dealership fees and coverages and stuff. And um I was wondering if it would be necessarily a good idea to refinance it and then just attack it and pay it off.

1:58:59 Yeah. What do you make, sir? Um I make roughly 30 grand a year. What does she make, sir?

1:59:08 Um I'd say maybe like 1820 a year. Okay. All right. Um, and you you guys are 24.

1:59:23 Uh, 23. Yes, sir. 23. Close. Okay. Um, all right. Can Can I love you enough to tell you the whole thing? Will you allow me to do that?

1:59:36 Yes. Okay. If I were your age or you were my son who's 20 who's older than 23 um now um and you were to ask me this question um I here's what I would tell you to do okay in detail and there's a lot of reasons for this and I'll give you the reasons too okay but the first thing I would do is get married by Friday

2:00:01 okay because you don't need to be doing financial transactions and babies with people you're not married to it does not lead to prosperity and it does not lead to a wonderful life. The data on this there's piles of research that show that that this that this is a really really good suggestion. Okay. So, so I'm meddling in your business. Okay. I want you to get things in the right order from this point forward.

2:00:33 So, get married by Friday and then sell the car. You can't afford the car. You guys don't have any money. You don't make much money. And you have a brand new baby coming. And you're so broke you can't see with an $800 payment.

2:00:51 Yeah. It's killing you, isn't it, man? Mhm. Yeah. You got to sell this car. So, call or have her call and get the payoff number on the car. or what it takes to pay it off today and then find out what the um Kelly Blue Book value of the car is. And I hope you can sell it for enough to get out of it. I hope you're not I hope she's not upside down in it. And for that matter, since you're her new husband by Friday,

2:01:19 hope you're not upside down in it cuz you're going to be joining this party. But you guys got to this thing is a weight around your neck during what should be with a baby on the way in a new marriage, the happiest time of your life. This car is a nightmare. And there's no refinancing. It doesn't get rid of it. It's got to go away. And then get you the cheapest something that you can drive that'll run and start your life off like broke people like I did and Sharon did and Jade did and Sam did

2:01:50 and most of the people listening did. Um that's where that song, we ain't got money, honey, but we got love. That's where that comes from. Okay. And um you know and so you know you start with that and then you start working on your careers and both of you get your incomes up because both of you's job sucks

2:02:10 and let's get our incomes moving and and then we start talking about buying a little better car, a little better car, but we're doing this as a couple with a new baby. That's a wonderful gift

2:02:21 and let let's let's move forward. Um and those are the things that will cause you prosperity. Um the the there is a there's a whole piece of literature out there folks, a whole piece of research out there that is done multiple times in multiple different veins that talks about what's called the marriage advantage. And um for instance, males live 7 to n years longer that are married than unmarried males. Just an advantage. females live on average five years longer that are married. So that that's the physical one of the physical aspects of it.

2:03:01 People survive cancer at a 20% higher rate that are married. Isn't that weird? Okay, there's all kinds of data out there on this stuff. The net worth of someone in their mid30s at 35 years old, and this is not me talking to you, Anthony, this is me talking to everybody out there. The net worth of someone in their mid30s right now is 10 to 11 times higher for a married male than an unmarried male at 35 years old. That's at 35 years old.

2:03:36 That's interesting. Crazy interesting. And it's got to do with a lot of different factors. The, you know, but one of them is is that we're joined and we're committed and we're not got one foot in a boat, one foot on the dock. Mhm.

2:03:49 And it changes the dynamic of how you do your career, of how you do relationships, of how you do money,

2:03:56 and it changes the whole thing. And so that makes sense. You're always going to get that at Ramsay, by the way. We're always going to be proponents.

2:04:04 We're going to tell you every time cuz we love you to get married. Yeah, that makes sense. There's a lot of research out about uh the quality of your relationships and how they affect your longevity, uh how they affect your mental health. It only makes sense that it would affect your money in a similar way.

2:04:19 Absolutely. It it affects it dramatically. Affects your income. Absolutely. Oh man. The the the amount of money that a lady makes more that is married in her 30s than an unmarried lady. Really wild.

2:04:34 That's very interesting. And the the interesting dynamic of that is is that sometimes the unmarried ladies saying, "I want to be independent."

2:04:41 Isn't it? I mean, you know, and yet the and it ends up on average making considerably less

2:04:48 on average. So, I don't I don't know exactly what that is. And the guys make more, too, by the way.

2:04:53 It's not it's not uh u but it's just it's a dynamic in our culture and the way people's um neurosystems work and the way our relationships work and then it plays out in the math.

2:05:06 That's what it comes down to. So, that would be my advice to you, sir. um if you since you allowed me to love you and be direct, I'd be married by Friday. I'd get this car on the market and get it sold and both of you look for better jobs. And uh let's get you let's get you up there where you're making a little bit more than 40 or $50,000 a year between the two of you.

2:05:26 Below average household income and a baby on the way. So let let's get this thing moving, buddy. You can do this. You're not a dumb guy. You can do it. And you're not afraid of hard work either. So you can do this. And you called a show like this. So, I know you can do it. I mean,

2:05:40 they're just getting started. There's they got they can do it. Yeah, absolutely. They can do this. And so, there's great hope. Um, and guess what? If you've if you've done anything out there that you wished you hadn't done, bought a house, bought a car,

2:05:54 um, you know, whatever it is you wish you hadn't done. You know, a lot of it can be undone.

2:05:59 Yeah. Or a lot of it can be survived. Just don't keep repeating it. So, I I've about decided at my age, since I'm old now, that uh people say, "Well, you're wise." is what I'm saying. Yeah. You know where wisdom comes from? Bad judgment.

2:06:12 Yes. You know, and doing stupid doing stupid butt stuff. And I The only thing I have done right is I seldom do the same stupid thing.

2:06:20 I I find new ones to do, but I seldom do the same stupid thing. And if you get a whole bunch of stupid things in your past that you never do again, then people start calling you wise.

2:06:29 Yeah. And so that that's really what it comes down to. A whole bunch of things I avoid doing now that all of a sudden it makes you look like you're smart.

2:06:35 It's a success thing. You're standing on a pile of failures. Exactly. It's exactly what it is. Good qu good good point. That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

2:07:04 Heat. Heat.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "The Only Hack To Paying Off Debt Is Doing The Hard Work | January 7, 2026"?

Dave Ramsey (Host), Jade Wshaw (Guest), Katherine (Guest), Jesse (Guest), Logan (Guest), Britain (Guest), Anthony (Guest).

What is "The Only Hack To Paying Off Debt Is Doing The Hard Work | January 7, 2026" about?

The discussion emphasizes the importance of facing difficult financial situations head-on, especially in debt repayment strategies. A caller shares a personal struggle involving a potential credit card charge-off after experiencing job loss and personal loss, and the hosts provide practical advice on managing debt amidst financial instability.

What is mentioned in this The Ramsey Show episode?

12 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Every Dollar, What No One Tells You About Money, Fair Winds Credit Union, Better Help, Jade Wshaw, Casper. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "The Only Hack To Paying Off Debt Is Doing The Hard Work | January 7, 2026"?

The episode runs 2 h 7 min; the transcript is about 22,720 words in 500 timestamped sections.

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