Transcript

When Unexpected Consequences Force You to Grow Up | January 29, 2026

From The Ramsey Show · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 2 h 7 min · 23,547 words · 452 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "When Unexpected Consequences Force You to Grow Up | January 29, 2026", an episode of The Ramsey Show published January 29, 2026 (2 h 7 min, about 23,547 words). It mentions 10 people, works and ideas, including George Camel, Jade Warshaw, Dave Ramsey, TSP.

What this episode is about

This discussion centers on the unexpected challenges young couples face when dealing with unplanned pregnancies, highlighting the emotional and financial pressures involved. The conversation emphasizes the importance of communication, planning, and growth as they navigate the complexities of relationships, responsibilities, and future decisions together.

Key takeaways

  • Normal is broke: 68% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck; financial sanity begins with budgeting.
  • Future shock: Balancing college and impending fatherhood? Sometimes, life demands you fast-track adulthood.
  • Career flexibility is key; pursuing passion over convention often leads to true financial satisfaction.
  • Fear is not a plan: A clear action plan for living arrangements will reduce panic and ensure stability.
  • Parental support is invaluable; navigating parenthood is tough, especially without a family safety net nearby.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 15:00: George Camel, Jade Warshaw, Every Dollar, Xander Insurance
  2. – 30:00: Delete Me
  3. – 45:00: BetterHelp, George Camel, Jade Warshaw, Every Dollar
  4. – 1:00:00: Every Dollar, Church Hill Mortgage
  5. – 1:15:00: SmartTax, Dave Ramsey
  6. – 1:30:00: George Camel, Jade Warshaw, Dave Ramsey
  7. – 2:00:00: Every Dollar, Dave Ramsey, George Camel, Jade Warshaw
  8. – 2:06:32: Every Dollar, Church Hill Mortgage

Notable quotes from "When Unexpected Consequences Force You to Grow Up | January 29, 2026"

  • Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel, joined by bestselling author Jade Warshaw. We're taking your calls at88255225.
    about Jade Warshaw · at
  • Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I.
    about Dave Ramsey · at
  • Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or.
    about Xander Insurance · at
  • Find peace with your digital life. Start protecting your privacy and your peace today. Go to joindeleteme.com/ramsey for 20% off an annual plan. That's joined me.com/rramsey.
    about Delete Me · at
  • With clarity so you can focus on living the life you want to live in the new year. If you're thinking about therapy, I recommend BetterHelp. With over 30,000 therapists…
    about BetterHelp · at
  • But don't just rush in blind. Sit down with someone at Church Hill Mortgage who will tell you the truth and walk you through a plan to position you better for long-term success. Listen, markets.
    about Church Hill Mortgage · at
  • Today's question comes from Shannon in Florida. It's the Ramsey Show question of the day brought to you by Y Refi. If your private student loans are in default, it's time for a plan. Yi helps.
    about SmartTax · at
  • Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel here with Jade Warshaw taking your calls at88255225.
    about George Camel · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • George Camel — Person · Host · 4 mentions · first at
    Primary on-air host who introduces the show, takes calls, and gives financial guidance across multiple caller segments.
  • Jade Warshaw — Person · Co-host · 4 mentions · first at
    Co-host who co-answers calls, adds perspective on budgeting, relationships, and practical next steps (e.g., divorce logistics, inconsistent income).
  • Dave Ramsey — Person · Referenced expert / network founder voice · 5 mentions · first at
    Referenced as the core Ramsey philosophy source; appears in an ad-style life insurance discussion and is cited as the authority behind the investing approach.

Products & tech

  • TSP — Product · Referenced product · 1 mention · first at
    Retirement savings plan mentioned in the context of military benefits.
    Yes, sir. So, in 2002, the Army came out with the TSP, and you're well familiar with that.

Sponsors

  • Every Dollar — Product · Sponsor · 7 mentions · first at
    Budgeting app promoted as a tool to help listeners manage their finances.
    Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.
  • BetterHelp — Product · Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at
    Online therapy service promoted for mental health support.
  • Xander Insurance — Company · Sponsor · 1 mention · first at
    Insurance company promoted for term life insurance services.
  • SmartTax — Product · Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at
    Tax filing software promoted for easy and accurate tax preparation.
  • Delete Me — Product · Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at
    Privacy service promoted to help listeners protect their personal information online.
  • Church Hill Mortgage — Company · Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at
    Mortgage service provider promoted for home buying and refinancing.

Full transcript with timestamps

Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel, joined by bestselling author Jade Warshaw. We're taking your calls at88255225. Don't be scared. Pick up the phone, type in those numbers, and join the conversation. Thomas kicks us off in Oregon. What's up, Thomas?

Are you with us? Uh, yes, I am here. Can you hear me? Yes. Um, hi. Um, my situation is rather complex. Um my I'm a 24 year old um from Oregon who's doing college, have two years left um for a business administration degree. My my girlfriend is five weeks pregnant. I found out about it three three days ago. Um and to be honest, we're both rather scared. Um I have no outstanding debts. Um I don't know if she has any outstanding debts, but I don't believe so. Um however, she is not in the best financial situation. just overall because of living expenses and other things.

Wow. Um well that's scary. Dude, you have a right to be rightfully spooked by all this. I'm going to go ahead and assume that you are the father.

Yes, I am the father. Okay. How long have you been together? Um we've been together around a year. Um we live we don't live together unfortunately. So, this is even more scary because we need to find a way to live, find a way to move together if we decide to have the child.

Okay. Um, let's let's roll back once one one moment before we even think about that part. Do was this somebody that you plan to be with or

is this something that's like, oh, dang, now I definitely feel like I am stuck.

This is someone that uh I was considering marrying. Um, her and I both get along amazingly. We have never had a fight in the entire time we've ever been together.

I mean, it's been 12 months, man. It's not like period and everything. Okay. So, it was somebody that you were thinking about a future with.

Um, she is she's the one that I was thinking about having a future with. Okay. That that that is good because that way all of what I would hate is for you to just be thinking, "Oh, I got this girl pregnant. Now I'm stuck." and now I have to move in, now I have to get married and be forced into something that you never saw a future with that person, but it's good that you did see a future with her because now she's having your baby. Um, okay. So, you've got two years left of college. What about her?

Um, she is currently out of she's not in college and nor is employed. And that's I think the biggest scary thing for me is she's going to have to find a job. I have to I have to grow up really fast now. And I've never worked a full-time job because I've just been so focused on school all my life.

So, you're 24. Really scary. Yes. Did you take some gap years? Um, there was one gap year, but it was a lot of jumping around unsure of what uh career I wanted to go into because of the fact that uh our world is changing so fast.

Okay. Okay. So, why business administration? Um, I chose business because my psychology was that it would be like just so generalized and so useful wherever I go that I could use it. Um, and I chose it because of that reason.

Okay. So, what's on the other side of this? Let's say you do finish the degree. What kind of job are you looking for?

That's kind of the more difficult thing. I personally am really interested in architecture and I was also interested in psychology. However, I've had family members push back against that and say, "No, you should be doing this or you should be doing that."

Which is also why I've been so unsure. Well, here's the truth. You might need to put a pause on education and just get to work doing anything.

Yes. And the truth is, you could probably make as much now as you would with a business administration degree on the other side. The degree could help you long term. But in the short term now we just got to stack cash and get ready for this new life of being a dad and you know does she have uh insurance? Is she covered through her parents?

I believe so. Yes. That would be one piece of homework to figure out is the medical side and then child care side. Yes,

she's unemployed. She's going to need to get to work until she can no longer work and baby's about to be here to try to at least, you know, mitigate some of the financial damage here. And then is it is she going to just stay home with the baby

and then are you going to be near her? How close are you guys right now as far as distance?

I am around 3 hours. Good. 3 hours. Oh gosh. Okay. So now I understand a little bit more what you were speaking about. Um is there since she's kind of unattached in the way of school or work, is she able to come closer to where you are? Would she be willing to do that? Um she's been currently working towards that. Um she has been trying to find a way to move out. Um where she currently lives. Where does she live? Is she with the financial part?

Um she's living in a in a home with other roommates is what she's living in. How is she affording it? Um, I think she it's I think it's very personal, but I think it's like something regarding she's a case manager and that kind of thing.

Okay. So, she's just getting government assistance. Yeah, she she Yeah, I I think so. She's getting quite a bit of assistance.

Okay. Okay. How old is she? She's 21. Does she have family nearby that you guys could move closer to to have some help? And would they be willing to help? Have you had that conversation?

Um, her family is not very inner life. My family, unfortunately, is six hours south of me.

Got it. Okay. So, thing number one on the list, I think, is you guys need to get together and you need to create a plan for you guys living near each other, especially if you think the plan might be to get married. So, that's thing one. Thing two is verifying the whole insurance business because if she's estranged from her parents, maybe she's not. and if she's getting government assistance, there's a lot there. And then the third thing I would do is once you figure out the living situation, I would start I would find a local church and I would start premarital counseling just to see if you guys are a fit. Like if you could do a marriage together, if you could

compatible. Yes, I understand. Yeah. I I I would have a hard time saying get married immediately cuz I just I'm not hearing in your voice and and even in your vicinity that that was the plan per se. This I don't know if I'm right or wrong on that, but I don't want to just say to you go get married. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Given what you told us. And then what is your financial picture? Do you have any savings right now? Do you have any debt? Um, I have I have a large college fund that was set up by my family. Um, I I come a rather from a rather privileged background. Um, my I believe my college fund is technically it's owned by me. Um, it's around like 50 to 70,000 maybe up to 90 at the most.

Okay. But what about other cash? Um, other cash not a lot unfortunately. Okay. Well, you hey, you've got a a 9-month runway here. And so, I would heavily consider pausing school, moving closer together, and you getting to work full-time plus a side job, her taking on a full-time job until baby's close to being here. And then you just save up cash, and then we'll figure out the debt later. But right now, you're in stor mode, stocking up cash, and figuring out the life plan. Then we'll figure out the financial plan.

And don't do anything really crazy until the doctor says. A lot of times people don't even tell people that they're pregnant until like what around the 12 week mark. So keep this close close to your belt for now.

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something. Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

That's a gut punch. And oh, you're telling me. And for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. They don't know what to do next.

Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly

these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man. Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

To just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or call 8003564282.

Sarah is in Washington. Up next, Sarah, welcome to the Ramsay Show. Hi, thanks for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help? I'm in a bit of an unusual position where my parents did uh well in life and now at the end of their lives, my mom is facing some decisions with life insurance or an estate strategy plan.

Okay. Her team wants her to buy $500,000 a year in life insurance. And I'm trying to convince her that there are better products available.

Who encourages us? She's a short. She has a financial planning team. Okay. How big is her estate? What is their net worth?

Probably about 60 million. Okay. Now, there are at this level there are, you know, there's life insurance strategies that a lot of advisers use to protect the estate. So, I don't want to just go in going, "This is a ripoff. They're trying to screw her over." That may not be the case here. Uh when we talk about life insurance, we're talking about, you know, whole life policies for the average everyday American when they're getting ripped off at 600 bucks a month. So when a when you have a $60 million estate, there are situations where paying a half a million a year to protect, you know, for a $20 million savings could be worth it.

So have you got any intel from the adviser or from your parents? A couple policies. Um, she has a 1.5 million whole life policy that's 100k a year and then two $10 million policies that are each um 100k a year and they want her to buy an additional policy for an additional 300k a year.

Goodness gracious. It just seems it feels like now they're just grabbing commissions left and right. And so

Right. Right. That's where I go. This is this is not as black and white as it may seem, but if you are getting red flags, I would have the conversation with them. Are they willing to hear you out?

Yes. Um, but when they, for example, I'd like her to get rid of the whole life policy. Their argument is that in seven years it pays for itself. So why would she not keep paying for a few more years until it's paying for herself, paying for itself? I don't have a very good

How does it pay for itself? The paid up additions event essentially uh get reinvested and then the investment inside the whole life policy pays the premiums.

Yikes. Well, that plan can implode pretty quickly with how high these premiums are and how awful the returns are. And so I if I'm in your shoes, I would contact a a third party adviser on your own and get their take. And then at least you have some

to go, "Hey, I talked to an adviser. Here's what they said about this. Will you hear them out?" And maybe they go, "Yep, I understand what they're doing. All good." Or they go, "No, here's what I think is happening and here's the tweaks to make."

Okay, I've gone that route and that has given me some ammo to push back on her team. Um, but in a lot a lot of ways it feels like they're operating on her fear that she's not going to take good care of her heirs, which clearly she's going to. Yeah. Beyond anybody's wildest imaginations, it seems more like a Oh, go ahead.

I was going to say I would just look into I I'd be really interested in finding out what type of whole life policies those were. Um, there are some instances where if it's like a variable life, it could be something that is available to her. I don't know if this many policies would be it, but that's what I'd be looking into if I were you. Um, they can be utilized by ultra wealthy people, folks who have no debt and have really, really high net worths, especially if they've just maxed out all of their other opportunities. So, I would really go out into this with a spirit of curiosity versus these people are trying to screw my mom. You might be right, but it also could just be something that's gone outside of your purview of knowledge.

Yeah, it definitely is well outside of my knowledge base. Um, and I just feel like I'm it's a one of the things I love about the Ramsay program is that the goal is to live like no one else. And now they're facing that. Hopefully Dave develops another segment where people can talk about these kinds of issues cuz we're hoping that lots and lots of people get to this place, right? I know that's not the reality and it seems like a really weird problem to have, but

it's not a Yeah. You know, I want to look out for my mom. Absolutely. you and and she's trying to steward this wealth as best as she can and using pros and experts to do it. Um, but there there are some people out there who can take advantage of people like this who have giant estates. They're they're happily going to write giant checks uh which gives them big commissions. And so that's where I want to know are these bad apples or are they just doing something that is just an extremely expensive way to transfer the inheritance? And that's that's the big question mark because a state tax could be 40%. And so I understand that you don't want to pay 40% of 60 million when you pass away. I don't want to give the government any more than I already have.

Yeah. No, definitely. And so there are things like an irrevocable life insurance trust or eyelets they're called. Um where you know the trust owns the life insurance policy so the death benefit is not counted as part of your estate. So that's probably what they're trying to do

is that when she passes there's millions and millions protected from the government which means less taxes to pay. too powerful. Yeah, absolutely. And you can contact Smartves Veester Pro on our website. Just jump on to ramseyolutions.com and say, "Hey, I need a consultation. My mom's working with this adviser. Here's the kinds of things they've been telling her. Can you help me understand this more?" Number one, and then help me understand, is there a better way to do this? And are they taking her to the cleaners or not? And uh our Smart Vster pros are they're going to have the heart of a teacher explain it to you and uh no BS. They're gonna they're going to just tell it to you like it is. Thanks for the call. Malcolm is up next in North Carolina. Malcolm, what's going on?

Hey, how's it going? Good. How are you? I was uh calling in. I'm doing great. Uh I was calling in about a question that I had regarding um my income drastically decreasing. Um I recently joined the military which um has required my wife almost to have to be a stay at home mom. She can no longer really do her job as she was doing before. So, our income went from around uh I would say $180,000ish down to $31,000.

Oh gosh. Um and yeah, why did you make that choice? Why did you guys make that series of choices?

I wanted to go into the military. My wife has always been very supportive of me and uh I recently sold a business so I kind of was a little lost. So, I didn't have anything to do uh kind of. So, I've kind of always wanted to join the military. So, I took a leap and my wife uh joined it. We didn't necessarily think that well through it, I don't think. Uh but I'm in it now. And what was the luckily

what's the end point? Was there like a point where you said, "Hey, our our income's going to go down for a small period of time and then XYZ is going to happen." Like what what's the end point? So once I finish my training uh which is going to take about two years, I'll receive my reinlistment bonus which was my enlistment bonus which was about $45ish,000. Uh my income should jump to around $100,000 uh in the military. Um and then I also if I choose to reinlist, I believe our uh reinlistment category is around 90,000. So we did mention that um I just didn't realize how long the training would last before I started making um a better income. Um, and it because we don't really we've been very fortunate uh financially, so we didn't necessarily I didn't really think about like our lifestyle changing um significantly. And yeah.

Are you going to be on base? Are you going to have base housing? Yeah. So, we're going to they're going to be on base housing. She will be moving with me within the next month.

Okay. So, that helps. You're not going to have that expense. I mean, the way that you live on $31,000 is that you live on $31,000. So, you've got to get your head around what that means. And that's going to be a humongous hu

whatever your life was before is no longer. This new chapter is going to look like you're broke college students.

That's the in interesting name thing that we're having right now because we do have a decent amount in investments and savings, especially after selling the business.

Okay, good. My wife is kind of wanting to live the same lifestyle uh recently. The reason this popped

that's not an option basically. Well, here's the thing. Here's what I want to tell you before we go to break. Number one, if you have money in retirement, do not touch it. Do not move it. That money is locked in. And if you have savings right now, how much savings do you have real quick?

So, we do the regular 3 to 6 months. So, currently we don't have that much. And that's what that's there for. That's only there for emergencies. that is not there to uh skim off of every single month to have the lifestyle you want. So, you guys made a very clear choice. Sounds like you didn't think through it very well, but like you said, you're here now. So, you've got to live that life and be thankful that you've got 3 to 6 months of expenses and a little money uh saved for retirement on down the line.

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today. Go to joindeleteme.com/ramsey for 20% off an annual plan. That's joined me.com/rramsey. Christian is up next in Fort Lauderdale. What's going on, Christian?

Hi, George. Hi, Jay. Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. What's your question today?

So, uh, my dad was recently, uh, had a surgery that went bad. Um, he had three strokes during surgery. So, I now have power of attorney over him and I'm trying to sort out his finances. Um, I just pulled a credit score and I discovered that he's $90,000 in credit card debt and obviously not working. Um, he's now just on workman's comp insurance. Um, so he has limited income that uh he'll never be able to pay back the $90,000 in credit card debt. And I was calling to get some advice.

Man, I'm so sorry. That sounds horrible. What's his what's his prognosis? So, um, he had three strokes. He was blind about a week ago after the strokes, but he's currently able to see um, and talk, but not walk. Um, it looks like he'll be in rehab for about three months minimum. Um, and then we'll see. He's gotten much better in the past week, so we're we're hopeful.

Mhm. Um, but for now, he's going to be in the hospital for quite some time. Wow. How old is he?

65. Okay. Does he have any other debts outside of the credit cards? Well, I found about 86,000 in credit card debt and a $5,000 medical debt in collections along with a mortgage.

Okay. And is anyone living in that house right now? No, it's an empty condo. Okay. Is it paid? I mean, who who's paying the mortgage right now?

So, this just happened in the past week. Um, I just took over his finances. So, I will be paying the mortgage out of the money that he's making from workman's comp insurance.

Okay. Um, that's enough to cover it. But that Yeah, it's enough to cover the mortgage. And he's also laid on HOA fees. So, they're in the process of suing him. Um, but I was able to make a payment plan with them that they've agreed to.

Okay. The lawsuit and not and you're paying that payment plan out of your money.

Um, currently I have not made a single payment yet, but I'm intending on paying it out of his money.

Okay. Does he have money? Account is current savings retirement. No, he might have a 401k, but he has no money. Um, his account's currently overdrawn by $50, but he has $5,000 a month coming in from workman's comp insurance.

Wow. So, um, what does he owe on the condo? What's it worth? It's worth about 200 and he owes 204.

Oh, boy. Um, yeah. And what's the plan? What do you foresee the Is it just him? Is he married?

Um, not married. Okay. Single. Um, he has a girlfriend overseas that he sends money to, but

Oh, boy. The extent of that. Are you sure this is a real person, Christian? I've heard this story before.

Oh, well, unfortunately or fortunately, yeah, she she actually is real. What's the plan when your dad uh gets out of rehabilitation? Is he do you foresee him going back to this Let me put it like this. Do you foresee him living alone or do you foresee a situation where you all have to take care of him out of your place?

No, I I foresee him living alone. The workman's comp insurance will stop of course once he's out of the hospital

and my hope was that he would get some form of settlement from workman's comp because he was injured on the job which led to this.

Um, and surely he won't be able to go back. I mean, I'm just assuming you tell me based on what you said, I can't see this guy going back to work in a couple weeks. I don't think so. Okay. I don't think he'll ever work again.

Okay. Right. So, then there'd be some sort of payout. Yeah, I would assume so. And then he'll start collecting social security at that time. I I would believe.

Okay. Do you think Do you know Do you have any idea what his social security would be at this point if he started to draw it now?

I don't know. I don't know. Okay. That'd be some homework that I'd look into if I were you to know is he going to go from 5,000 to 2500? What's he going to go down to? Um, and then figuring out is he going to have the ability to stay in this condo situation and really think through what that means for him. Um, what's your financial situation?

I'm I'm single. I make great money. I run a company. I mean, I'm not a millionaire, but I make I make enough money to to live on my own and my family.

And there's no world where he would move in with you where you would become his caretaker?

I sure hope not. Okay. So, you would, you know, it' be Medicare and try to get him care otherwise.

Yes. So, your homework is to figure out his full expenses and then figure out does he have enough money monthly to pay for that sustainably? And if not, we need to make some really hard choices here and go, "Hey, you need to sell the condo maybe at a loss cuz otherwise it's going to get foreclosed on."

Yeah. And he need is he still sending money overseas as we speak? No, I' i've cut all

Okay, good. expenses off 100%. He has enough money to make the payments that I've arranged for the HOA and pay the mortgage and the electric bill.

Okay. Um, and my intention is to stop paying all the credit cards except for American Express and the small local bank because I think they'll be the first ones to come after him.

Listen, they could try to sue him, but he has nothing and it's unse. And so if he died with this, they just write it off. They're not coming after you.

Nothing's going to h Yeah. Literally, I mean, exactly what George said. They can't come after you. And honestly, even for him, he has nothing to give. the only thing would have been that condo, but he's getting ready to sell it and there's no money that can come from it. So, in that way, he's sort of

and they can't take his retirement. So, um I think at this point, it's just trying to minimize the future damage and make sure your four the four walls are covered for him and the debt is a far far away thing that we need to worry about.

Y you wouldn't you wouldn't file bankruptcy. You would just stop paying everything and then let them come after him.

I would get current on everything you can. We don't want to in collections if we if we can avoid it. But the credit cards, you might make minimum payments to keep them off your back if he can afford it out of his checks, but there's no way he's going to pay off 90k at this stage of life,

right? Um, all the credit cards are current. The mortgage and the HOA are behind.

That's and that's what we need to flip it. We need the mortgage and HOA to be current and the credit card companies can kick rocks and pound sand.

Okay. So, that's your focus for him is making sure that we're current. We We're not behind. We're keeping up with the four walls and we'll let's see what income we can get from where and how long this workman's comp's going to last and then what the next steps are. But it's going to be a dayby-day thing. Man, this is a really difficult thing that you've been thrown into. Uh, and you're a good man and a good son for handling it.

And should I try to settle these debts with the credit card companies in a year when they inevitably come after him?

Well, if you stop paying now, the longer you wait, the more they're willing to settle. And so one year may not be long enough for them to go, "Yeah, we'll take 20 grand instead of 90."

Eventually they will though. But the truth is he has zero money to give them. So just let let it play out.

Okay? It's going to be the same. If you were to file bankruptcy, his credit's going to be completely decimated. It already is, I'm sure. And his days of

um you know, getting a great income and and buying a property are it doesn't seem like that's going to be happening. So for for him, like George said, four walls, whatever transportation he might need is really going to be what he has.

Okay. Unfortunately, this is sad. Decades of compounded terrible financial decisions and then

yes, you have the health situation on top of all of that which puts all of this just straight to a halt.

And so there's there's nothing that you can do to undo the decades of bad decisions. All you can do is help him take the right next step and make sure that he's got food, shelter, utilities, and transportation.

Yeah. What's What's his rent and HOA and everything like that cost every month?

Um the mortgage is 12250. The HOA is supposed to be 450, but I've arranged to pay 700 um because he's so far behind on that. And then he's also about a year behind on alimony to my mom, which is

um you know, it is what it is. He doesn't have the money. Is there a understanding of that? But

is there a living situation in his area that's less than $1,700 a month that you could get him into?

No. No chance in South Florida. I don't think it would be possible. Yeah, you're right.

And where are you? Look, are you in South Florida as well? I'm in Fort Lauderdale. He's on the west coast of Florida.

Okay. I'm just wondering, I mean, at this point, does he need to stay there? Can he move somewhere that is more affordable? I think he's best to stay there. He does have family there and I'm only 3 hours. Um, one more question I had if if I have time.

5 seconds. Um, oh, okay. Well, I I wanted to know if I start working on these credit cards if I'm going to be liable for the debt.

No, it's not under your name. So, it's not going to pass to you to deal with. So, don't if they try to scare you into it, say you got to pay, they're lying. That's not how the law works. If the debt's in his name, he's got to pay. If you co-signed or you're, you know, you're on that account, then they can come after you. But otherwise, you're safe, man. Best of luck.

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Restrictions apply. See boostmobile.com for details. Buying or selling your home is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to find the best deal for the right price. And the Ramsay trusted program is the only way to find a top agent you can trust who will help make your home a blessing, not a burden. It's easy. You can compare agent profiles, interview them, and choose the right one to work with. You can find a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for free at ramseysolutions.com/agent or click the link in the description if you're on YouTube or podcast. Kayla is in Texas up next. Kayla, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you guys today? We're doing great. What's your question today? Um, so I'm just looking for some guidance on how to or what the smartest way is to utilize the remaining money that my husband and I will have after paying off our debt and putting um money into an emergency fund. Um, we're about to receive $200,000 from a trust from my grandparents. um we owe about 30,000 on the car, so we were going to pay that off and then um put about 30,000 into an emergency fund. And so we'll have about 140,000 left over. Um so we were wondering like should we put that all towards the house? Should we invest some of that? Um a quick little add-on is we don't know that we want to stay in this house long term. Uh so we're just trying to figure out the the best way to move forward with that leftover money. Yeah. Well, you're you're speaking very wisely and you're filtering this through the baby

steps, which is let's knock out the debt first. Let's make sure we have savings and then we can explore the options from there. Are you guys currently investing?

Um, yes. We're into our retirement. My husband is, he puts about 7% in my and then his employer matches at 3 and a half%. I'm currently not, but my employer does contribute 11%.

Okay. for me. So you guys would be in uh baby step 456. You already have a home. You have a mortgage. What's left on that?

320. 320. All right. So is the trust available now? Uh no, it's going to do like the final paperwork. Um the rest of the beneficiaries are signing and then once all that paperwork is finished, then the money will be distributed. So that is expected in the next probably month to 6 weeks.

Okay. And it is a lump sum. There's no restrictions, taxes, timelines. Like $200,000 will show up.

200,000. Uh my uncle paid all of the taxes um that were owed on it from like the capital gains and the interest, you know, taxes on the interest that was all paid already. So

the 200,000 that I will be getting is what um is mine. Wow. So tell us about a little bit about the home. You said that you're in this house, but you might not stay. tell us about what your plans are regarding possibly moving and when that would be.

Um my husband my husband's currently looking at other opportunities in in other states that we can move closer to where my father is.

Uhhuh. Um and then to think the neighborhood um just kind of going in a direction that we're not truly happy with. Okay.

So, um what's the timeline you might want to move? um anywhere from I would say one to three years. You know, it just depends on like if I head forward to get a job in, you know, six months or you know, we a year we would we would move. Um there's also some kind of changes going on to maybe turn the neighborhood back around. Um but I don't know how long that would take to see

okay if it starts moving in the opposite direction. Um, I'm also wondering, would you be trying to keep the same level of house? Would you be trying to move up in house if you were to move?

House is probably the same level anywhere. I'm I'm happy with with this with this house, you know. Um, it was about 340 when we purchased it.

So, you know, we're we're happy with with it. What's your household income? um about 150,000. So we bring home about 868,700 uh after taxes and um deductions I think with healthcare.

Fantastic. Uh real quick, you said you bought the house for 340 and now you owe 320.

Yes. And you're worried about the neighborhood going down? Yeah. I just it's um

I mean if I were in your shoes, if you if you really are talking about a year horizon, I'd probably be inclined to just keep it in a high yield savings account until you want it for a couple of reasons. Number one,

if you piled it all into the house and just for some reason the house took a long time to sell or it for some reason went down in value, that might make you feel some type of way. Number two, moving is expensive and it's just nice to have cash on hand to make a move. Um, uh, if I were in your shoes specifically, if you were on a year horizon, I'd keep it in a high yield and wait for the right opportunity, and then when you move, place this house on the market, and you've got your down payment, um, that's readily available for you.

Yeah, that's the nice part. If it's a short time horizon, that 140 becomes your down payment without needing to sell the house first. And so, that puts you in a better position as a buyer. But if you're talking three years, put it into the house. It the money's not disappearing. It's just a forced savings plan and it stops you from using that money for other things that might not be as wise. Uh and you know you want to be a good steward of this money and you guys becoming debtree mortgage and everything is a great goal to have and so 140k chunked at that 320 man the interest savings alone if you calculate now how much more is going to principal versus interest it would blow your mind.

Yeah we we did that it was I think upwards to like the six figure mark. So, we have no issue with putting it towards the house. We just weren't sure like

with us potentially moving like should we hold off just for a little bit and then say, you know, if we haven't moved by the end of the year, then just dump it all into the house.

And you can enjoy some of it, too. There's nothing wrong going, hey, you're debtree with an emergency fund. Maybe use some of it for enjoyment and you go on a fun trip.

I definitely like to hear you say that because I'm I'm definitely a a um savor.

Yeah. I think because you're paying off the debt, you're stocking up the emergency fund, it would be good to do something fun with some of this money as well.

Not a huge amount, but you can take a, you know, $5,000 awesome trip and still have 135 left

and you can give some of that and then you can save some of that. And that includes paying down the house. that kind of fits in that category. And so I like this plan overall. I would just kind of keep it loose and put it in a high yield savings account when you have it and just park it at, you know, three and a half percent right now. We're not trying to make a bunch of money off of this. We're just sort of buying ourselves some time to make the next decision.

Awesome. And so would you would you guys think about at all like investing any of it into a mutual fund or

I probably wouldn't because you are putting plenty of your paychecks aside. And remember real estate is an investment too. So don't narrow your mind to think that just because it's not in the stock market, it's not it's not being invested.

If you guys had the house paid off, I'd say absolutely. That's kind of a baby step seven item is to then invest outside of retirement. And so you guys will get there, no doubt. You'll just use your future income to get there. And this trust is going to help you get rid of that house payment even faster. Then you can invest that amount. So

way to go. What a blessing. Awesome. Grandparents, yeah, that's awesome. It is. It's fant fantastic. And I have one more question if I could. Sure. So quick.

We got a minute left. Okay. So the the emergency fund um does that count towards like the like maintenance of the house if something were to happen to it or is that just simply you know if one of us were to lose our job then we're recovered until the other person you know get gets another job? If it's an emergency that if it can go towards household items that are emergencies. So if it's something that's urgent, if it's unexpected, and if it's necessary, that's what that's what an emergency is. So for instance, there's a storm and you didn't know it. It blew a tree onto your roof. Now you need roof d like roof repair. That would be an emergency.

Dishwasher randomly goes out. But if it's just maintenance, just set up a scing fund outside of that and just set it aside. I wouldn't put it with the emergency fund. it gets too convoluted and so you can just set aside, you know, 100 bucks a month, 200 bucks a month, whatever. You know, some people's homes are need a lot more work and more maintenance. So,

buying new furniture, not an emergency. Yeah, I would just put it in in every dollar. You can Here's what I do. I have a line item and you can mark it as a fund and that way I can save a h 100red bucks a month and at the end of the year I have 1,200 bucks earmarked for the maintenance and repairs on the house or the car or whatever it may be. And that helps me not get spooked when I'm like, "Oh my gosh, what are we going to do? It's $1,000. You go, "No, we have it."

I treat the emergency fund like I treat the HSA. I never touch it. You just don't want to touch it.

I will cash flow whatever I can to not touch these monies. Well, it's amazing. Once you're not broke anymore, you stop you kind of stop having emergencies. That's true.

It just becomes inconveniences that you can cash flow instead of, oh my gosh, what are we going to do? Yes.

So, it's expensive to be broke. That's for sure. This is the Ramsay Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. As we head into the new year, I want you to take an inventory of all the stuff you're carrying, all those things you think you have to do, all the past hurts and pains along with your past guilts and shame. When the world feels heavy, it's important to look in the mirror and consider setting down that old weight and not carrying it forward into 2026. Therapy can help you identify the heavy stuff, set it down, and move forward with clarity so you can focus on living the life you want to live in the new year. If you're thinking about therapy, I recommend BetterHelp. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is one of the leading online therapy providers in the world, trusted by millions with an average rating of 4.9 stars out of five.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw and we're taking your calls at88255225. Emily is up next in Nebraska. What's going on, Emily?

Hi. Um, thanks for taking my call. Um, so I am a stay-at-home mom and I'm trying to get out of an abusive marriage. Um, an emotionally abusive marriage. My husband's basically abandoned us. I've got four small children. um they're five years old and under and I'm trying to figure out how to create some margin uh hire a lawyer and I'm just trying to figure out what's the next best move to file bankruptcy or take out a second mortgage on the house or something else and I've got all my financial information written down if you want that.

Is there any support near you, family, friends church? Um my family all lives about 3 hours away and they're doing what they can to help me. Um, I live in kind of an unique area where there's not like I can't just sell the house and go rent. There's nothing for rent um near me and jobs are uh few and far between.

Is your house in your name? Yes, it's solely in my name. Um, I bought it before we were married.

Okay. How long have you been married? Um, since 2018. Okay. And what's your household income? Um, right now I am I'm a disabled veteran and I'm receiving um disability benefits of about $2,600 a month.

Okay. And then is his income covering any expenses for you guys or is he kind of cut off access?

He's I think he's rerouting his paycheck someplace else. He's a over the road truck driver. He's an owner operator. Um I've done his taxes forever. He'll gross about 225,000 from last year and I was only able to move over 29,000 to help pay household bills. Out of the last 13 months, I've paid um for the entirety of the bills 6 months out of the year.

Wow. Okay. So, he just kind of up and left. Is that He Well, being over the road, he's he's gone a lot, but um he's not called me since September. He's showed up at the house unannounced a couple of times uh for a few days at a time and it's just been weird.

Like just to crash. Yeah. Like over Thanksgiving and Christmas. Otherwise, he usually parks at a friend's house a couple of hours away.

Oh gosh. I'm sorry that you're going through this. So Oh, thank you. Tell us more about So you've been covering the bills just out of your money.

Correct. And is there any margin? Sorry, say it again. Oh, I received a lump sum back payment from the VA a year ago.

How much was that? Uh 42,000. Okay. And what did you Has that allowed you to be current? What did that allow you to do?

Um I was able to I put 6 months worth of um bills in savings. You know, I I had a cushion of six months.

Okay. Emergency fund. Correct. And then I paid off some debt and um I started a business in May and that's actually been helping a lot.

Okay. So, how much debt do you have left? I owe uh 34,000 on the house um with about 58,000 in equity. I've got uh 41,000 in student loans, 22,000 in credit cards, and I owe 6,000 on my vehicle.

Okay. And how much is in that emergency fund? Um, I've got enough to to fund February.

How much is that? Um, I'd have to look. I think it's down to 4,000 right now. So, you burn through the the emergency fund. So, you got 4,000 left to your name essentially.

Yes, sir. Okay. $58,000. $58,000 of equity. 41,000. Okay. Um, and tell me again, did I hear you say I wrote down a lot of numbers. Did I hear you say your income at this point is it 2600 a month? Is that what I heard you say?

2,600 a month. And then my business, I just started it in May. So, um, the numbers have been different about every month, but right now I'm grossing about 1,600.

Good. And netting about 1,000 to,200. And I'm hoping that it it just continues to grow, especially as we get into the summer.

Okay. So, fair enough. Like around 3,600 is what maybe you could count on per month.

Do you have your own bank account that is not at the same bank your husband has?

I do. Yes. Okay, good. Is that where you've been routing all of your money? That's correct.

Good. What do you pay? What's the mortgage every month? What do you pay? Uh $933.

Good. Good. Okay. So, tell us right now what's on fire besides your marriage financially. What's the thing that you're like, "Help me understand this." Jaden and George.

Um I don't know how to pay bills after February and um I need to hire an attorney.

Okay. So, I think that you can pay the bills after February. Tell us where how much the deficit is when you take your 3,600, you pay the 900 in the mortgage, you pay your debts. Is there you pay for food and transportation? Is there anything left?

Um, I've got life insurance payments and then um oh jeez, what else? Oh, electricity and propane and normal stuff. So, it's usually about my budget's about4500 to 5,000.

Okay. Okay. Um, and that's in every dollar. Um, I I'm using You need a budget at the moment.

Okay. I want you to pop into Every Dollar because Every Dollar is going to help you find margin anywhere possible. You'll be able to tell it about your specific situation and it's going to work overtime to find you money anywhere. Um, so right now you're $1,000 deficit every single month. So, that's why this is dwindling. uh so quickly I can see but there's also a path to get your income up right

with the business yes it it's been very slow um I mean it keeps changing but I I see it being capped at some point with the market becoming saturated

okay so what I don't think you should do and I don't think that you need to sell your house right right away I think you're actually you're paying a little less than 900 bucks a month I think I heard you say uh you're in a good equity position with it. You don't owe a ton on it. I don't think you're going to find anywhere cheaper to live uh for a family of five. Do you do you agree or disagree?

I I completely agree. Okay. Uh what I would do is change the locks once you file for a divorce. I would change the lock so that he's not just coming up in there willy-nilly,

right? Okay. Um and then is there anybody in your community who can set you up with a good attorney or who could recommend a good attorney? I've been shopping for three months now and um we we live so rural. I've been told that I live too far away. Um

they the attorneys don't want to drive to the courthouse in my location if they had to.

Got it. Okay, understood. And are all the debts in your name solely or is anything joint or is anything in his name solely?

The ones that I named are either in my name or are joint. He's got his own mess. Um he's been opening up credit cards uh for the last two years and um he's got

Have you frozen your credit yet? Because my fear is he's opening debts in your name.

I have frozen it and I check on it. Okay. Well, here's the truth. The faster we get through this process of divorce, the faster we can hope for some alimony and child support, which means you can breathe again and that'll get you to fight another day and hopefully clean up some of these debts.

Okay. Yeah. I wouldn't I wouldn't try to pay anything off just yet. I wouldn't try to sell your house or anything like that just yet because once this goes to court, who knows how this is going to get split, including the house, unfortunately. I'm not sure what the the laws are in your area. He's been living there since 2018, so I'm not sure if any of that will be up for grabs. But yeah, change the locks, freeze the credit, and file for divorce and figure out how to pay for it because you got to divorce this guy.

Great. I can't imagine. I'm so sorry you're going through this, Emily. This fact that this guy's not even covering the expenses for his own children and just abandon the family just breaks my heart. And u I know you'll get through it. You're you're a survivor and a warrior, but it's going to be a process to get to the other side of this and see some light.

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paid advertisement. NMLS ID1591 NMLS consumerac.org or equal housing lender. Sarah is up next in New Jersey. Sarah, what's going on?

Hi there. How are you doing? Great. What's your question today? So, I am trying to figure out how much I need for retirement. Um, I see where I'm trending right now in terms of my retirement progress, but I feel like it's falling short of what I'll probably need.

Okay. And so, I'm struggling to figure out like what I should aim for. I know I I watched a segment where someone was at 3.5 million. I don't know if that's accurate or where it should be. Um, and what I would need to adjust to get there.

Okay. Well, usually when we think about retiring, I'll tell you what's in my head. I'm thinking about my entire nest egg and I'm thinking based on my annualized rate of return, which is about 10%, can I live off of 10% of my income, and can it feel like the lifestyle I have now or better? Does that make sense?

Yes. What do you currently have invested? Um, so I have uh let me see in terms of my 401k um I have about $146,000.

Okay. Um and then I have a a brokerage account with like a couple of EFTs which is about $7,000.

Mh. Um I have a separate Roth IRA which I just opened up that has $1,000. Um and then the the other money that I have is just um it's an emergency emergency fund. Okay. Do you have any debt?

Uh, I have student loan debt. So, I have a student loan that it's in um it's in forbbearance, but I every other month I make a $1,000 payment towards that.

Okay. What's left on the balance? Um 130,000. And what's your income? It's 210.

Good income. Is that just you? Yes. There you go. All right. So, how much are you currently investing? Um, so currently I invest via my my paycheck and so about 600 goes into my 401k every paycheck and then my employer matches that.

What's the match? Uh 7%. Good. Okay. So if you follow through I have $300 that I was putting into um I was putting into like Capital which is like a money saving app. I was, you know, like $300 every paycheck, but I just recently moved that into the the an EFT to start putting that into there.

Okay. And why are you investing outside of the retirement right now into those ETFs, I imagine, is what you were saying,

you know, I don't know. Okay. Try to do something. And so, and then also the other thing too is that does it make sense to max out the 401k? I think I've done it in the past and the thing that I'm kind of most worried about is, you know, what are the the taxes going to look like and so if I can find some other place to do it where the taxes might not be as much and just just trying.

So, can we let let George and I tell you what we would do and as we're doing it telling you that, you tell us your objection so we can help you get past it. Would that be all right?

So, I'm looking at what you're doing and I I hear what you're saying. It sounds like you're just doing everything you can to feel like you're doing something, but I would argue that you're doing too much and because of it, you're not making the progress that you want to make. Um, the way I would do it, Sarah, is I would focus on clearing out these student loans first so you can have the fullness of your income and so that these things don't follow you into retirement. Cuz what a pain in the butt to still be paying off student loans when you're retiring, right? You're not even working anymore. you're not even using the education anymore at that point. So, I would really focus on that and that's going to require a mental shift. That's why I asked go ahead and tell us your uh what what your reservations are, but let me play out the plan first. So, you pay off the student loans. Then, instead

of thinking about it as I'm going to max out my 401k or I'm going to max out my Roth IRA, we just say, "Hey, let's just invest 15% of our income." Because if you did that, you'd be putting $2,625 into retirement every single month. That's a lot of money.

And if you did that, let's just pretend, I know that you've got the student loans to pay off, but just let's say you did that for 20 years at the rate that you have now, I mean, you're going to be over $3 million at that point.

Okay? So, if we can kind of reverse engineer that to make that happen, it's going to start with Yeah. We got to have the student loans paid off. We've got to have some form of cushion between you and life, some sort of emergency fund. That way, we can invest and not worrying about have to having to pull it out for emergencies again, right? And now we've created kind of the sustainability. I mean, think about it. Making $210,000 a year with just you, how quickly could you pay off the student loan?

I do have I do have a a toddler. I'm sorry. I meant that I was unmarried, but I do have a toddler. You have a toddler. It's only my income. It is only my income.

Well, great. you and your toddler $210,000 a year. How quickly, if you really got intense, because I think mentally you are intense about being prepared for the future. How quickly could you pay off that debt?

Feel like I could probably pay it off in in a few years. Ding, ding, ding. Two years. So, here's the math on 130 grand. 24 months. You're talking $5,400 a month, not a,000 every other month. We are going hard in the paint at this debt. And here's what that does. 24 months from now, you're 50 years old, right? Yes.

And you've paused investing for those two years, all investing, which scares you. But here's the truth. Now you have freed up so much of your income and focus and energy. Now from 50 to 65, let's say you invest that 2625. That's 15% of your income every month. Like you're you're going to have $1.8 million sitting in there in that one account.

Okay? And that's at 65. If you want to keep working, you know, you ride this out till 67, you got 2.2 million. And like Jade said, you continue this down the path, you'll have more and more. And so retirement is not an age, it's a financial number. And so we don't just get to retire because, well, we're 65, it's time. A lot of people get there and go, I don't have enough to cover the expenses. And getting into retirement debtree is your best bet at reducing the amount you need in retirement. The other the only other thing too is that I've I've also been looking to purchase a home.

Um because I've been renting um and so trying to factor, you know, I don't want to delay purchasing a home because I'm finally in in I think a good financial position to do that, but I don't know how that factors into, you know, kind of increasing what I'd be um contributing to the the the student loans at this time. Well, I do love the idea of having um that line item on your budget set once you're in retirement. I I would hate for you to be renting then. So, at that point, the order of the order of steps would be still focusing on getting the debt cleared out first cuz again, we don't want debt, especially that sort of debt following us into retirement. Then next, yeah, you still need some sort of emergency fund, some sort of cash cash position to keep you between, you know, a barrier between you and life. Then from there, yeah, now you could start to do both at the same time. You could

start investing 15% and start putting aside for a down payment. Um, and I would really at your age, I would fight in the budget to do both simultaneously rather than put off investing um any more years in order to save up for the down payment faster. I would try to do them at the same time.

So, you're investing 15% into retirement and then any money above that goes into a savings account for that down payment. Even though that might make it go a little slower than you want, you're going to want the years. You're going to want that time uh of compound interest growing for you and your retirement accounts.

Okay, I think that sounds solid. You got a lot of great goals. It's just we just got to get focused one thing at a time and you'll clean this mess up fast and making if you keep making $210,000, I have no fear that your life is going to look very different a decade from now.

Yeah. Is your income going up anytime soon? Uh, I hope so. Good. I would plan for it to go up, right? Why would it go down at this point? You're kind of at going into your highest earning potential years. So, you're a lot of people in their 50s earn their highest amount. So, really, really good.

I'm proud of you, Sarah. Yeah. And I think that's been on tack. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

So, it's time to ratchet up those student loan payments cuz here's the truth. 130 grand at, you know, 6 or 7% interest, you're probably the balance is moving upward. Even as you're making a $1,000 payment every other month, you might be acrewing over a thousand in interest every other month.

Absolutely. So, you really got to get ahead of it. And that means throwing huge chunks of money. And we get those calls where people go, "Hey, I owed 80 and now I owe a hundred because it was in forbearance and I didn't understand what it meant. I just thought they were helping me out. Now I have an even bigger mountain to climb."

Yeah. For some reason, student loans rest differently in people's minds. If you had $120,000 of debt and it was credit cards, cars, all these other things, you think, "Oh my gosh, I have to get a hold of this." But for some reason, when it's just one block of student loans, people tend to push it aside and forget about it.

Well, society told us it's an investment in your future. And yet, you can't bankrupt on the thing. It will just stick around until you decide to get rid of it. I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So, I know what it's like to have people counting on you. Your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did.

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That's netsweet.com/ramsey. Today's question comes from Shannon in Florida. It's the Ramsey Show question of the day brought to you by Y Refi. If your private student loans are in default, it's time for a plan. Yi helps you refinance defaulted private student loans into a low fixed rate payment so you can get back on the baby steps and start making progress. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey to learn more. That's the letter y refy.com/ramsey may not be available in all states.

Okie dokie. Today's question comes from Shannon in Florida. She says, "What's your opinion on how much to help kids financially after they get married? My son and his fiance are getting married this summer. They're in their early 20s and have a young daughter. They are both in college pursuing degrees. Our plan is for them to live in our basement for free until they graduate and start working full-time. I plan on continuing to pay for my son's college and provide help uh to his wife as well after they get married. I'm getting mixed opinions about whether I'm hap helping or hurting them by supporting them after they're married. Even if he's married, he's still my son. And I think it's my responsibility to help both of them get through college debtree if I'm able to.

Friends and family say they need to be independent once they're married, even if that means going into debt to finish college and pay rent so they can live independently. Uh what are your thoughts? So, it sounds like uh they started a little earlier than most as far as having children and because of that it's kind of set a course of events into into action a little earlier than maybe planned. Um, so I'm with you, Shannon, on the education part. I think that if it was your plan to pay for college, especially for your son, and he's still willing to go, I think it's great if you're still willing to pay for um college. Now, did it did I read you say that you were paying for hers, too? I think you're just supporting her. Um, I'm fine with you paying for college. I think that's great. Now, the living in the basement until they graduate and start working full-time. If you tell me they're 20 or

21 and they have no money and they have a kid, I think that is okay. There has to be clear guard rails and time frames on this. It can't just be, oh, live in the basement and I'm supporting you financially until you're ready. And the the part of you being ready is just kind of like this vague ambiguous.

Yeah. They're probably not leaving at that point. if mom's still folding my laundry and covering all the bills. So there there is that that word independent is the key here. If they are

what does that mean? If they are codependent and now you're enabling the codependence, that's on you. And so we need to make sure that number one, we're not artificially propping up their life. If this was a marathon, you don't want to be carrying them over the finish line. Now, if they're running and they're doing a great job and they've trained, it's okay to give them a little boost. And that's what you want to do here as a parent. It's okay to help them financially after they get married. I think that's awesome. If you want to pay for the wedding and you want to help them with a down payment and give them some money for that, that's great. But only if they're already employed and working hard and able to take care of the bills on their own.

Yeah. I think they should be paying you. I think you need to sit down and have something very clear here as far as what are they going to pay you in rent because if they're just living for free, that's not going to help them when it does come time for them to go into the world and try to get and and try to lease a place. they're going to need to show some form of history of paying rent. And so that's good. Even if it's 500 bucks, come up with something so they have some skin in the game. Also, set very clearly how long is this agreement going to last? If he's out of college in uh you know, 2 years, is that the cut off point? Um is it 2 years and 6 months? Like be very specific. What are the parameters while they're there?

Must both of them have at least part-time jobs. Must they be paying a certain amount of rent? Right? make that so so clear. Um so that there's no question and when the time comes for them to, you know, leave the nest, they're not thinking that you're kicking them out. They're going, "Oh yeah, this is exactly what we decided." So whatever you set, make sure you're talking about about it early and often. And make sure that um you don't get caught up in this as the rescuer and their drama triangle.

If you've never Googled the drama triangle, you should. triangulation. Yes. All right. Good question, Shannon. Frank is in Boise up next on the line. What's going on, Frank?

Hi. Um, I have a question to ask you. I've been talking to a financial advisor here at Boisey. Recommended from you guys and I have um three 401ks because my um the contractor I work under, they keep changing companies, so it changes to a new 401k and they're pretty small. Um, so I think the three they total around $73,000.

Okay. I want to know what to do. Should I roll them into the new 401k by this April, this month, or should I roll them into a personal IRA, which the financial advisor recommends that and I brought them up, you know, about the large cap, midcap, small cap, and international companies that they ran Ramsay recommends. but I'm 57 years old and they said they need to make a portfolio for me just for me because of my age that they would do it differently or something like that.

Yeah, I'm guessing they're saying, "Hey, you need to start including some bonds and sort of tone down the the aggressive investing as you get closer to retirement, which is normal in the financial planning world." Uh you'll hear that a lot.

So that is okay to do that. So I don't need to be doing large cap, midcap, small cap, or international companies exactly like that.

We still adise a little bit more. Dave Ramsey is a big fan of just keeping it 100% equities and letting it ride. Uh because over the long haul, I mean, you could live to be 97 and so you're talking you're still got 40 years of that money sitting there. And so there just going to be a little bit of a drag when it comes to the bonds starting to enter the picture with much lower returns, but also less volatility. And so it's a really personal decision for you and you're, you know, you can talk with your advisor on what they recommend for your situation. We don't have all the facts on what your expenses are and what the nest egg is going to be. So they may have the reasons there, but either way, you want to do a direct rollover to the new 401k or to the IRA.

And so you never should touch the money and you want to keep it in kind. So, if it's traditional 401k, you want to move it to a traditional 401k or traditional IRA, uh, instead of Roth because that'll trigger a whole, you know, host of penalties and taxes there. So, uh, that's what I would do. There's nothing if you have a strong 401k, you can just roll it all into there. My guess is the adviser is saying, "Hey, if you roll into the IRA, he can help manage it." Uh, they don't have access to help manage your 401k.

And so, he's basically saying, "Hey, you're on your own in that regard." Do you feel like you need help? Um I he said there's more um there's more u mutual funds in a IRA than versus a 401k.

Yeah, you might have 20 options with your work 401k. An IRA, the world is your oyster. You have access to everything. So there are some there's some pros and and cons there. And so you do you do your own due diligence there. You're still steering the ship when it comes to investing and you do whatever you think is best for your situation. But there's really there's nothing wrong with doing either. And so don't overthink it.

Gotcha. Okay. Then he says a 1.5% of advisory fee and I guess that off of 73,000. That's about $95 a month. Is that correct? Yes.

If I'm doing something wrong. Yeah, that's that's normal in the financial planning world. There's something called AUM, assets under management, and that's basically how they make their living is managing these portfolios. And one to one and a half% is uh is normal in that world. And so you're talking 73,000 if it just sits there. Um, and you've got, you know, you're right, $1,95 a year divided by 12. And so, you know, that's that's the price you pay for making sure that someone is managing it for you and you have access to them advice all year long, all of that. And so, you really want to make sure your adviser is looking at a holistic picture, not just a fund picker. And so, I would be utilizing them for way more than just helping you do this rollover.

Okay, I got you. So, what you saying you recommended? I mean, if if this guy, he's telling me, "Yeah, do this. Do this." And

if I were in your if I were in your shoes and I looked at my current 401k that's being offered and I really liked the funds and they were growing at a rate of return, that's what you know what what it should be. Uh, you might say, "Okay, I'll just roll them over to the new company 401k." But if you're looking at the options and you're going, "Hey, like based on what I'm seeing, this is really not performing well. I need access to the full market, then that totally makes sense to roll them over and let somebody help you pick some better funds.

And sometimes the 401k has uh fees as well, so you want to look at that and see what that's costing you inside of the account. So, a lot of homework and research to do. And it never hurts to have the pro look it over. But again, you're in the driver's seat. And so, if you're like, "Hey, no, I don't want to give it all to the IRA and have you manage it," that's your that's your decision to make. But, uh, I'm proud of you for taking that step. Just don't let the money sit there. You want to move it and have it working for you, invested, and not just sitting.

You asked and we listened. Guys, the Live Like No one Else cruise is back by popular demand. This is your moment to celebrate your debt freedom with Dave Ramsey, all of us Ramsay personalities in the Western Caribbean. You can share your story with Dave, swap jokes with me, sing karaoke with Jade. I hope that's happening.

Um although I want to sing next to you cuz that's that's a lot of pressure. I know, but I always put on like my fake voice. The love bow. I don't do my real voice.

You make others look good. Yeah, that's impressive. So, here's who this cruise is for. It's not for everyone. If you're on baby step four or higher, meaning you have paid off your consumer debt, you've got the emergency fund, it's time to celebrate. You probably haven't marked the moment. Yeah. And a cruise is a really awesome way to do that. It's It's the Ramsay audience plus our team. It was incredible last time we did it. So, join us March 14th through the 21st, 2027. So, we're looking almost a year out. Very exciting. You can save up to 300 bucks this week only when you book by February 1st. Cabins are limited, so you can lock in your spot with a $600 deposit. That's all that is due now to just lock in your spot and then you can budget for the rest and join us for the cruise. You can click the link in the show notes to learn more or go to ramiesolutions.com/events.

Tom is in LA up next. What's going on, Tom? Hey, how you guys doing? Great. What's your question?

I Yeah, I was just calling in. I'm a PhD student over here and my wife recently lost her job back in like July and I'm just wondering and looking to get some advice on how best to get through this stage of my career and money situation whether that is pushing harder and just getting out as quickly as possible um yeah or trying to work extra jobs. So for some advice on that,

what money is coming in with you doing your PhD? So with being at UCLA, we have like a full stipend. It's about three grand. So in LA, it covers about housing costs and a little bit of food. Um but beyond that, before I had worked a full-time job um as a engineer and saved up enough money where I haven't had to cover anything. So, I have like this little nest egg that's just dwindling down, but it's

there's about 24,000. Okay. And you've been basically using that to float the gap for the last 6 months.

What did your wife do? So, she was a like IT trainer over at UCLA. Okay. And so, it's been since July. Has she gotten any bites? What's what's what's up with that, do you think?

So, she's gotten a few bites um in the tech center. has just been really quiet for the past few months. And then she recently started working with some family members on starting up moving a business that's they've started over in Mexico over here. Um and so she's going hard on that.

Not paid yet. And so they're just starting it. So I'm hoping that will she be paid when this is moved or how does this work? Cuz I wouldn't. We're not doing volunteer work right now.

Yeah. Um, I think once it gets moved, it would be paid. I'm just not sure about I've been trying to get like a good timeline, but it's very ethereal at this point in time where

has she looked at just other fields in the IT world that she would be qualified for?

Yeah. So, she's been applying around. Um, I think that she's just very much kind of also chasing a bit of a dream of this job and this kind of like entrepreneurial spirit and I want to appreciate that. And also love that cuz also I'm kind of doing that and I'm like

yeah there's going to be seasons where it's it's Tom's turn and he's chasing this PhD and I'm hoping this PhD is going to turn into a big pay raise on the other side. What's the goal with the PhD?

So I'm studying bioengineering. So the goal is to hopefully yes have a a big pay raise and be working for one of the big biotech firms like Neuralink stuff, things along those lines. We're talking high six figure salary once we're done with this. So when is the PhD done and how soon would you be working after that?

Yeah. So that's one of the decisions is I can hopefully be done by early fall next year if I really push hard. But the other idea is if I need to float is if I take some extra time and work like as a tutor and take an extra year but float expenses. So fall of 27 or tutor and then it's fall of 28. 2008 28. Oh boy. So okay. Yeah. Let's go let's go back to the wife then because you were kind of on this path. I think you have to see it through at this point. Um I think for your wife, she's got to it it's one thing if you want to do a business venture, but you need to have solid a solid business plan. something that she can look at and then be able to say to you, here's what's going to happen and we should be profitable by this date and when we're profitable, this is the salary I should be able to draw. So that you guys can make a plan and kind of have a go no-go of hey, we thought that we were going to be profitable by this

date. We're not. So now therefore, we're not going to continue on with this. And if she can't provide that, then that means there is no meat on these bones. It's just an experiment. And you guys are not in a time of life just yet where she can totally experiment because you're going to look up and this 24,000 is going to be gone. What's your burn rate every month?

Burn rate is about 2,000 a month. Oh yeah. You're going to look up and be like in two years this money is going to be gone. Which two years is not bad. I mean that's you being you'll be graduated by then.

Do you guys have debt? Um so we do have some debt. just one car loan and then um her student loans which are about together is about 20,000.

Okay, that's total with the car loan. Uh I think what's left on the car loan it might be closer to 25 or 30 but definitely below 30 or above.

Do you guys have kids? No kids. Okay. So what has she been doing for 6 months? cuz I I'd rather her do something even if it's not in the IT field just to provide some income and some purpose and and meaning every day to go out there and do something cuz it's easy to fall into a low-grade depression just sitting around going I was laid off. I can't find a job and you start to question your your identity and selfworth.

Yeah. Just to just to earn the burn rate. Like she could experiment but she got to at least bring in the the couple thousand.

And she's too qualified and talented just to be sitting on the sidelines for seven months now. Yeah, that's what I try to I've been trying to be encouraging as much as possible I think is just very disheartening for her. The current situation of applying and getting rejected um and just feeling that she isn't as talented as I know she is. So

that's your job. you are her biggest cheerleader and you are also her accountability partner going hey you apply for that job you get that coffee you know meeting with that person who works in IT and so you can help her and support her during this time but it's time to have the honest conversation of hey we are broke like we won't be in the future but right now we are in a season where we both need side jobs at night delivering Uber Eats and Door Dash

that's the reality cuz we can't burn through the savings and then be going into debt every month living in LA. It's an expensive life as you know.

Yeah. A piece of homework you guys can do tonight that will feel proactive is if you can both sit down tonight and make a list of everyone you know that might know someone in her space that could be hiring, right? That could put in a word for her. We'll make sure that she has Kim Coleman's um career materials so that she can really focus in and figure out how to do that the right way. But just reaching out to your network cuz chances are there's somebody that's in your network that holds the key to her next job.

Okay. Yeah, that'd be very good, right? Yeah. Try to make a list of 10 names. She has to create some inertia here cuz, you know, an object of rest stays at rest. And so, it's hard to even have the self-confidence to have the meeting or do the interview when you feel like, "Oh my gosh, here we go again." It's like dating. You're like, "Well, I've had 19 bad dates. What's the point? Love isn't real." It's easy to fall into that hole if you're not careful. Uh but you know, this again, this is a season you guys will have an amazing trajectory in the future. And right now, you're going to look back at this time and go, remember when we both had to do door dash on the side just to make ends meet? That was crazy.

Yes. This is a very short period of of time that most of us go through where it's just you're just broke. You're broke cuz you're young at that point.

Not not so much cuz you've made a bunch of mistakes. You're just young and getting started.

But you stack on high cost of living on top of that. I mean, it's impressive that they've even made it work on what they're bringing in every month. Even with the savings and the stip,

that's still a tough life. So, the reality is we got to live like we're broke college students, which means we can't eat out. We are getting the discount groceries and stretching it and meal prepping. It is just rice, chicken, broccoli. Stack them. Go. That's what we're eating every single day for a year.

You'll survive. No one's died from doing that as far as I know. It ain't pretty. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel here with Jade Warshaw taking your calls at88255225. Riker is up next in Utah. Riker, what's going on?

Hi, how are you? Great. How can Jade and I help? So, I'm wondering on how to build a budget with such an inconsistent income that me and my future wife are going to have once we combine finances. What do you do that's so inconsistent?

So, my fiance is a hair stylist and so it just depends on what client she can get for her income. And then my family owns a fencing business and a ranching business. And um during the summer I can make upwards to $10,000 a month, but during the winter during ranching I'm making zero.

Okay. And what about her? What's her swing of income, good to bad right now? Right now, she just started three months ago and she's making about from 1,500 a month to about 2,300 a month.

Okay. Okay. So, maybe say 18 is a right there in the middle. Okay. So, yeah, the way I would do this, when are you guys getting married, by the way? When does this actually start? June 20th.

Okay, good. Uh, so what I would do by then, by June, you're going to kind of see what her averages are. Hopefully, they continue to go up, but you really want to plan your budget wor based on your worst month. That's what I would do is I would say, okay, first off, how much does it take for us to even like what's our barebones budget? What does it take for us to operate? Keeping the lights on, keeping food on the table, four walls, keeping our insurance, whatever that is. And then on our worst month, how far away from that amount are we? So, you're kind of filling in the unknowns there.

And then from there, I would kind of stock up and say, "Okay, let's pretend we find out it takes $3,000 for our household to run and we bring in on our worst month 3,200." Well, that's great. That means there's a little bit of margin there. But it also means that you might want to keep an account, take that $200 and over time stock up an extra month's worth of savings that's kind of there

to float you in the rough months. We call it kind of a peaks and valleys fund. So when you have a really great month, that's the peak. Well, we don't need all of that to cover the expenses. So let's move it over to a savings account so that when you have that $0 month, you can get by and not feel like, oh my gosh, what are we doing?

And it's not your emergency fund. So don't get it confused. It's It's completely separate from an emergency fund.

The real question is what are you doing all winter long? So I I do ranch with my dad all winter. I work probably six hours a day all winter,

but for free. I don't get paid. Yeah. I don't So I don't get paid for the work. I I own cows in our herd. I and I sell bulls and I sell beef, but instead of me getting paid hourly, I work off like feed and hay. So I don't have to pay my dad back for hay. And I just get the money from the animals instead of having to pay hand back for all the seed and all the hay.

So what are the zero what are the zero sum months? I don't do farm math, so I need to help help me understand this. Which months do you on paper earn zero and which months on paper do you earn the 10,000?

So I can So in about from April to November I can earn 10,000 and then in we sell bulls in April and that's when I can make money off the ranch. But in between, so like like mid December to when we start fencing in April, I'm not making any money. But I'm getting ranch money during the summer when I'm working full-time as well.

So really, if you spread it out over 12 months, you're making six $65,000 a month.

Yeah. So that's not bad. It's almost like a teacher. You just have to account for the summer months.

Yeah. For you it's the winter. Yeah. Can you go do something part-time or even full-time from January through April that actually pays?

Um, I could. We live in a really remote part of Utah. There's only 400 people in my town and the nearest town, like we have to drive an hour to go get groceries.

Not a lot of side hustles out there. Well, do any other places around you need help?

I'm guessing those other people are a lot of farming. Is that a kind of a farming town?

Yeah. So I Yeah, I could go and pick up a ranchand job somewhere just right here locally.

Yeah, it seems like help a little bit in the winter months. It seems like in a town I think you just have to put your thinking cap on and think outside the box because it feels like in a town that small there's got to be needs that people have because there's it's pretty remote. You can't get to the things you want. So, I just spend some time brainstorming what is it that during the summer months or I'm sorry during the winter months I would need help with that it would be nice to have that service and maybe it's a service that you can provide um for the folks who live around you during those months. Make sense?

Yeah. Is your fiance in the same town? Yeah, we live together. Okay. Well, she's got enough hair appointments with a town of 400 to make this work.

So, she drives an hour to go to work. Goodness gracious. Every day? An hour each way?

Yeah. Oh gosh. Yeah. An hour. An hour each way. And she's working Monday through Saturday.

Dude, she just set the bar. Riker, sounds like you're driving an hour into town for your side hustle.

Yep. You hop in with her and you go do something nearby. You drop her off and you go door dash.

Quality time. So that's the key. If you want stable income to make this less stressful, go create some stable income during those months. Otherwise, you do the peaks and valleys side where you go, hey, I made 10 grand. We only need five. I'm going to sock away five over here, knowing we might need to float some expenses in the down months.

You're doing good. I mean, you're making 80,000 a year, which is pretty sweet. Yeah.

Yeah. For small town rural living. I hope you have low expenses. Yeah, we're only we have to spend about 2500 a month.

That's not bad. So, when I'm only 18 and when I'm able to, I'm hoping to get my CDL. And during the winter, I was going to snowplow drive.

Hey, there we go. I love it. There you go. That's a great idea. Can you start a Christmas tree farm, too? I've seen that in every Hallmark movie ever.

I We probably should to be honest with you. I like this. I'd get creative. You guys are young. You can you can sort of take those risks right now, quote unquote. Obviously doing this all with cash. Are you guys completely debtree, both of you? Yeah, we're completely debtree. We own our both of our vehicles and we're paying a thousand bucks a month in rent literally.

And then just food is the only other This bodess well cuz that really if you have inconsistent income, you really got to be debtree and have that emergency fund because life is already a little bit stressful when you don't know what's going to come in. And so I'm proud of you for uh for being a really hard worker at 18. I think this bodess well for your future together and uh I wish you guys the best. Yeah, knowing what I know about your income, if I were you, every time I got 10,000, I'd keep 6,000 and put the rest away. And that's kind of your winter month store until you can get something off the ground and and roll it and just tell yourself that you make $6,000 a month instead of 10.

I learned a lot on that call. This was like Settlers of Katan. He was like, I'll trade you a hay for a brick, Dad. I'm like, all right. Hey, whatever kind of arrangement you guys have, you figure it out.

Whoever got the longest road wins. That game hurts my brain. But hey, I'm not a farmer for obvious reasons. I wouldn't survive one hour out there. They'd find my body. You're 3 ft from the house.

Oh boy. I needed my gluten-free snacks. If you've been paying off debt, working the plan, and have reached baby step 4 or beyond, you've done the hardest part. Now it's time to celebrate. The Live Like No One Else Cruise is back. March 14 through 21, 2027. Join all the Ramsay personalities and me as we sail to Halfmoon K, Cosml, Jamaica, and Grand Cayman. Cabin sold out last time and they will again. Lock in yours with a $600 deposit at ramseysolutions.com/events. That's ramseyolutions.com/events.

We're headed to Orlando up next. John joins us there. John, welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks for having me. Absolutely. What's going on with you? Yeah. So, I currently, yeah, as I said, I lived in or I live in Orlando and I have a pretty good job. Um, but I have a potential career change and unique job opportunity that would take me out of state. Uh, but it would actually be a pay decrease. And another big problem is that I'm severely underwater on my mortgage.

Oh, boy. Oh, you're not behind on payments. No, no, no. Okay. So, how are you underwater?

Like upside down? upside down. Yes. Sorry. You owe more than the house is worth.

Yeah. By quite a bit. How did we get here? Yeah. Houses. Yeah. So, I bought this house about two years ago and the market was really high. Um and I knew of the whole home buying thing, so I probably overpaid for it.

Yeah. And then, yeah, houses in my area just they're really not selling well. Um

they're the prices have gone way down since I've bought. So, so you're underwater on paper right now as if you sold today, you would take a big loss and you would need to come up with the difference.

Yes. And that's the problem with this out ofstate job. Yeah. How how do you have any money? Like do you personally have any money saved?

Yes, I have quite a bit of savings, but I just don't want to dig into it uh for this.

How much do you have? But yeah, so I have um stocks that I get for my company. I have about 110,000.

Okay. Um and then just and then like liquid cash I have maybe like 12,000. Okay.

Okay. So the the good news is if you did choose to get out of this cuz it's 70,000 underwater. Is that correct?

That's what I'm expecting. Yeah. About 70,000. Okay. The good news is if you had to bring the cash to the table to get out of this house, you could. Um however, my question is why are you moving out of state for a pay decrease? tell us more about the opportunity. That doesn't sound like an opportunity just yet.

Yeah. Yeah. So, um to give more background, uh I'm a software developer currently and I do really like my job. Um and it the pay is good. Uh so, this job would actually be a completely different career change and it would actually be in federal law enforcement.

Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. So, something I've been thinking about doing since I was a kid and I finally got the opportunity to do it. the the process takes a really long time. So, and very few people make it through the process. So, I wasn't really thinking about this the whole time. I was just kind of going through.

What's the differences in pay? What do you make now and what would you make? Yeah. So, um my total so to so base right now is around 160,000.

Okay. Um my total pay after stocks and everything ends up being about 210,000 maybe a little bit more.

Wow. because I get 50,000 in stocks. Yeah. And then this new job um would start out around like high 80,000s.

Um but it does go up after each year. Um but yeah, it would definitely even long-term like the highest paid people in my in the new role would make slightly less than I make currently. And my

like slightly less than the 160 or slightly less than the 210? Uh slightly less than the 210. I think the top people like once you make the GS13 or whatever, I think it ends up being around 190,000.

Okay. And you're single? Yes, I am. I have a long-term girlfriend, but uh no, not married.

What's the You said um the percentage was low to even get into this. what what's the percentage like what's the chances that you'll move and actually get into the program or get to take the next steps?

Yeah, so right now so they they're wanting to get me set up for training right now. So um so around 1% of people who apply actually get elected for like training, but I've actually made it all the way through to that to that stage.

Okay. So you made it you made it under the fence. So what has what has to happen next? What's the timeline? Um, so I haven't fully um labeled. So yeah, training would be about three or four months from now. They have to get me selected for a training class and

would you have to quit your job to do the training? Yeah, I would. Yes. Okay. Okay.

And then the training Oh, go ahead. Sorry. Well, I'm just thinking through this. So, it sounds like this is something you really want to do. Um,

right. this this is you've kind of decided you are doing it. Um I haven't made up my mind. Um it would be different if I wasn't happy in my current role, but I do really like my current job, but at the same time, yes, this is something I've wanted to do for a long time.

Well, the truth is you can always go back to software developing if this doesn't work out or if it's, you know, I had fun, but I'm ready to go back. So, it'll always be there. I'm not mad at the pay cut if it's what you really want to do. um the the you're gonna have to just suck it up and go these stocks are gone. I'm gonna use this to, you know, get out of this underwater mortgage. Uh you might owe some taxes and then you're going to move and that's going to cost money. And so just know it's not an optim a financially optimal move, but we know life is bigger than just spreadsheets.

Sure. Do you have any debt? Yep. That other than the mortgage. Okay. I mean, I think unless you have another reason that you haven't told us about, if the reason for you strictly is a financial one and but I kind of like my job, I think we've given you an out for both of those. It's just uh do you want to go forward or not?

That's that's true. In the grand scheme of life, the underwater mortgage is is like, okay, that was kind of a stupid tax, you know, something you couldn't super control. Now, you could have put more down and had more equity and got out of it unscathed, but here we are. And you're a smart guy. You make great money. You will recover.

Okay. Thank you. So, financially, it's not the end of the world. It's just if it's more about my decision on what career I want to do.

Yeah. I mean, I c I could ask you this question. I mean, there's there's a chance that if you stuck in this house for a couple more years, maybe you'd see it go right side up. But will this federal law enforcement opportunity be available to you in 2 to 3 years? We don't know.

Do you know? We don't know. Yeah. Um, so there is an age limit. Um, I'm 32 right now and you you have to enter training before you turn 37. So,

um, the window is kind of closing, but not it's not im closed. I mean, you got five years. So, if you if you said to yourself, I know I can wait three years and I I' I want to do that. You could wait three years and see if you can get right side up on this. Um, if you know for sure that that opportunity would be available to you and you wouldn't be one of you wouldn't be the 1% that doesn't make it to uh to training, right?

And would you just rent in this new area if you got the job? Uh yeah, I would just that would probably be the plan starting out at the new job is to rent for a while. Uh training itself takes about six months and then um yeah, your housing is taken care of during that time but then I would probably rent.

Is the training paid? Yes, it is. Okay. And then the last question, I mean it's not part of the financial discussion, but the relationship is it going to survive long distance?

Um probably not. That's another Yeah, that's another big factor in my decision.

Okay. So, you're and you're okay with that, it seems. Uh, yes. Okay. Well, I think that's Yeah, it's just something I'll need to decide. So, I'm looking at all the factors. So, the financial factor and then also the relationship factor. And both of those I think are going to influence my decision.

Yeah. Okay. I mean, if she's the one that that changes the scenario. But if you're like, "Hey, it's been fun, but this career means more to me right now than the relationship." That's a choice you're making, and you just got to make peace with that.

Yeah, that makes sense, man. A lot of big decisions, John. But I'm excited for you. This it does feel like one of those once in a-lifetime opportunities. Now, if he was in crippling debt, didn't have the stocks, he was going to have to do a short sale and wreck his financial life, this would have been a different conversation. I just want to make that clear that he's in a decent spot all things considered outside of being underwater on the mortgage and that allows him to have this flexibility and he's single so no, you know, spouses or children are affected by this move.

That's a crazy change though from software developer to federal law enforcement.

I got to know what I mean if it's you got to be at a there's age and only this many people get in. Is this like Seal Team Six C?

Oh man, he's going to be knocking on some doors. I didn't want to ask cuz I felt like he wouldn't tell me. Whatever it is, none of my business.

I want to know more. It's like a series. It's like Jack Ryan. He is Jack Ryan. He's not telling us. Welcome to 2026. Last year is officially in the rear view and you're fired up to finally make some changes with your money. New year, new goals. We love it. But let's be honest, old you said the exact same thing last January and the January before that. And before you know it, those money goals fizzle out faster than the fleeting flavor of LCROY. So here's the truth. New year motivation only gets you so far. You need an actual plan. And the good news is you don't have to figure it out on your own. Every Dollar builds a personalized plan based on your goals and your real life. And it actually coaches you to stick with it.

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Hey sir, how are you? We're doing great. This is a fun segment. You guys are not just random folks. You are baby steps millionaires. Is that correct?

We Yes, sir. We really are. And uh yeah, it's it's really um it's really exciting actually that both of us come from very humble beginnings and we found your plan many years ago. I'll let the wife explain that. Uh that kind of put us on this path and yeah, we can't thank you enough. It's just great.

That's great. Well, hey, I did diddly squad over here while you guys did all the hard work, but we're honored to be a part of the story. And for the listeners, we like to do these segments to say, "Hey, it's possible for you." These are real people, normal people who just worked their tails off over a period of time and invested consistently, and we want to hear how you did it. So, let's let's break this down. What is your net worth as a family?

Uh, well, we're north of 3.5. Um, and to break that down, uh, we got 2.7 in 401ks, IAS. We got about 100 liquid in brokerage account, savings account, and our home uh, that we purchased last year with cash is valued at 700,000.

Good job. Amazing. How old are you guys? I am 57 and mama is pretty close to that.

Fantastic. Is mama on the line? I think I hear her back there. Hi, Kate. I'm here. Yes. Hi.

Hey. Fantastic. Okay. What was your worst year of income and best year of income in your working careers?

Okay. 1987, my first year in the military, I made $8,694. Wow. And best year so far.

This year, well, probably uh north of 300. And that's with that's with um six retirement checks coming in on top of my my wages. Wow.

Way to go. That's that's a glow up if I've ever heard of one. Wow. Yeah. Okay. So, what are your careers? So, we are both we are both retired military. Um, and then we both went on to work for the military as civilians. My wife is retired retired for good now. She's retired twice. Um, and I'm working on my second retirement. I could retire any day. Uh, I have the time. I'm just uh I'm enjoying my job. So,

the next three to five years, I'm going to walk. Maybe you'll hit a world record. You'll have three retirements. Just keep it going.

You're It's like that movie where the cop has one more mission in him. He said, "Come on, get out of retirement."

Liam Niss. Yes. Well, thank you for your service. Yes. Incredible. What were your degrees in if you got them?

So, I got a two-year in general studies and then I'll let mama take over. And I have a four-year degree in criminal justice.

Fantastic. And do you remember your GPA during that time? I think mine was 3.6.

Yeah. And mine was about the same. She's being humble. She was about a 3.8. I can tell she's the smarts here. And you're the bronze.

That's awesome. I'm the sherpa. I'm the sherpa of the relationship. So, how did you do this? What was I mean, was this always on the radar? We want to save for retirement or did you go through some valleys to finally make it to this being the goal? Tell us a little bit about the journey financially.

So, yeah, we both, like I said earlier, we both come from very humble beginnings and we knew that um we had great families and great values, but we wanted to change the money part. So, we searched and searched and and like trying to find a path like how do we get there? How do we get there? And then from there, I I deployed in 2008 for 15 months. And while I was gone, I'm going to let mama take the conversation over though.

So, we were stationed in Germany and he deployed to Iraq for 15 months. So, it was just myself and my daughter. And a friend of mine told me about Dave Ramsey and she gave me the book to read it. And when he would call on Sunday, I would ask him, "Are you what are you watching on TV? Are you listening to any money people?" And he was listening to another pretty well-known financial voice at that time. And I told him about Dave Ramsey and how the podcasts were free. It was just so easy to listen and get engaged. And I'd mail him a book. And and sure enough, as soon as he heard Dave Ramsey, we both just fell in with both feet. and dove into the program. It was exciting. It was new. It was invigorating. It was,

you know, a way of money management that we were not familiar with. And it all made perfect sense. And, you know, with team effort and just intentional about where every penny went, we were able to become debtree and, you know, then start obviously saving saving money. So because of a good friend and because we both wanted a change for our future, uh Dave Ramsey really really turned the switch for us.

Wow. That's awesome. So this was like 17ish years ago. You guys kind of got focused and went, "All right, let's get out of debt. Let's start investing."

We did. We went all in. Um I buy your books by the bundle and I pass them out. When I got here, I passed them out to my team that I work with. Oh,

that's awesome. And I said, "Hey, hey guys, just read this book. All I ask is you read it and pay it forward when you're able to one day." Uh, we've been to the seminars down in um in LA. We

signed up for the cruise. We were signed up for the previous cruise. The first one.

Yes. But co put a damper on that. Yes, it would have been great. It was great when we did it again last year.

And then we Yes. Most recently, we co-taught prior to leaving Germany. We got back from Germany last year. We we co-taught a financial peace class with our chaplain

and that was great. That's fantastic. Did you guys inherit any of this 3.5 million?

Not a penny, sir. No, sir. Fantastic. And then I got to know what kind of cars are real life millionaires driving. Can you tell us the year, make model of your vehicles?

I am. The the car I drive to work every day is a 2009 Honda Accord. That is so perfect. That's so spot on.

Wow. Wow. Wow. Okay. And how about mama? Mama's got a Honda Pilot in there. That's a 22 that we bought cash. You know, we were there.

Good man. The wife always drives the nicer car. That is the rule. That's the rule. Yes, sir. So, yeah. And and yeah, we've only bought three car. We've been married 30 31 years this um August. We've only bought three brand new cars over those 30 years.

Wow. So, we we just uh Papa's due for an upgrade, isn't he? Well, to be transparent, I got an upgrade last summer. We bought a I got a GMC Sierra with the Denali package. Uh, but it sits in the garage cuz I baby it and I've never had a vehicle.

Okay. Okay. Makes sense. It's like too nice for you to drive. It's just a trophy at this point.

Sits on the on the shelf. Exactly. Take it to the gas station and then I that detail it and back it back in the garage. But yes. So, do your do your neighbors or friends and family know your your status and net worth and wealth? Because it doesn't seem like you flaunt it. If I drove by your house, I would like those guys are probably worth three and a half million.

Nope, they don't know. And I was telling my wife, I was telling Kim, I was like, this is funny because we don't have to worry about our family listening to this podcast cuz they don't follow you guys like we do.

That's amazing. And sad at the same time. I hope they do one day. Goes, "Hey, that's Mike and Kim. They didn't change their names. I recognize those voices."

Wow. Well, there's nothing to be ashamed of. That's the good news. If they're like, "Wa, I didn't know." You go, "Hey, we'll show you the way." There was no magic tricks here. You guys worked really hard. You served your country well. You invested for the future. You know, was this just in, you know, 15 years of solid investing.

Yes, sir. So, in 2002, the Army came out with the TSP, and you're well familiar with that.

Oh, yeah. Savings plan. I watched that for about a year and then I I went all in in January of 2003 and then I kept that while I was in um active duty. When I retired, I rolled it into my civilian TSP and now it's just one big one now that's growing. And my wife, she did, and this is what I tell people like it's never too late. My wife worked 11 years civil service. The last 10 was consecutive. She dumped um she maxed it out every year with ketchup funds as well. And then she retired after 10 years. And now that her TSP has grown to over a million dollars in 10 years of investing.

It's crazy what some intentionality does and the alignment. That's the really inspiring part about you guys. I can tell you're in sync. I mean, you're passing the ball to Kim, she's passing it back to you, Ali, you guys. That that speaks to a great marriage, which then turns into a strong financial future. So, thank you for inspiring us and everybody listening that it's still possible. 57 years old, 56 years old, worth3.5 million,0 in inheritance. He's driving an 09 Accord. She's got the 22 Pilot as it should be. I want to be them one day.

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Our scripture of the day, John 16:33. I have told you these things so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble, but take heart. I have overcome the world. James Clear said, "When you can't win by being better, you can win by being different." That's how I've got to where I am today. Jade,

I knew you were gonna make that about you somehow. Not the sharpest in the room, but I'm unique.

You are unique. You're one of a kind. There's only one George Camel. There you go. All right. Mindy is in College Station, Texas. Up next. What's going on, Mindy?

Hey, how are you? Great. How can Jade and I help today? All right. So, I have been debtree. I have no student loans. I am a senior in college and looking into moving out within the next year, uh, buying a house. And I have no credit score. and one of my professors kind of got into my head. I'm wondering how to best build a credit score without going into debt.

Great question. And by the way, I'm so proud of you. You know how weird it is that you are debtree and graduating college with no credit score?

Absolutely. It's a good thing. Way to go. Yeah. So, what's your excited about it?

What's your current living situation? Are you at your parents? Are you in the dorm? Where are you right now?

Yes, I'm living with my parents at home. Okay. Are you paying them any type of rent or just totally

No, I lucked out. I am living rentree, able to work only four hours a week at a practically minimum wage job uh while going through college.

Okay. And what will your job be when you graduate? I'm looking into government agricultural work.

Okay. And what will that pay? uh somewhere around 70,000. Okay, cool. A year. So, you're not technically ready to buy a house. You're just thinking about what you will need to be ready to buy a house.

And is that the big reason for wanting a credit score, wanting to build it? Correct. So, I'm in a deed of trust state. Um which means that no uh court if I default on a mortgage and some of the uh mortgage companies are a bit more harsh. So, I am wanting to have a good credit score when I graduate from college.

Got it. But you're not going to be buying a house out of college. No, not directly.

So, you'll be renting for a while. Absolutely. Okay. And you can rent easily without a credit score. If you are employed, pass a background check, and you have enough money to cover a potentially higher security deposit, which you'll get back when you move out, they will rent to you. And so, don't believe people who are like, "Well, you're going to need a credit score to rent an apartment still." I have rented many an apartment without a credit score. They just want to know, can you pay? Are you a criminal? And if not, they go, well, since we don't have the credit score, you'll pay a higher deposit. That way, there's a little more skin in the game on your part. So, don't worry about that.

Good to know. So, then let's talk about the idea. We know you won't need it to rent. Let's talk about shifting you from the whole mindset of, well, I might need a credit score for something, uh, Jaden George, and we're going to just s suggest that you don't need to build a credit score for any reason because right now, I mean, think about it. You have no debt. There must have be there must be a reason that you decided to go through your life with no debt. And the only way to build a credit score would be you having to get into debt.

Okay? And when you do get to that point of buying a house, which you know, and getting a mortgage, there's a process that I've been through called manual underwriting. You may have heard about it. And here's what's I'll tell you the exact things that are required cuz I did in-depth research for my book, which I'll send you, Mindy. There's a whole chapter on credit scores and how to live without one where it's super nerdy. And here's the exact step. So, here's what you will need to get a credit to get a mortgage without a credit score. You'll need verification of income for the past 12 to 24 months. So, your tax returns, which you'll have been employed at that point for a few years, right?

Correct. You'll have rental payment history, 12 months of documented on-time payments. You'll have that.

You need 12 month history of your savings and bank statements, which you'll have that. And then one or more regular monthly expenses as an alternative trade line. So, think utilities, cell phone bills, anything that you've had to pay monthly, uh, that will count as well. And for anybody listening who's thinking of the same thing, if you are self-employed, you'll probably have to show your your tax uh return history for the previous year. So,

there's a little more risk there with self-employed folks to make sure their income will stay that way. So, that's Mindy. That's all you need. And you can reach out to our friends at Church Hill Mortgage as you get closer and they can help you in your area go here's exactly what you need. And the truth is, here's what they do. They do manual underwriting, which means no computer runs it. There's no credit score. There's no automated underwriting. And so a real person looks at all this information to grant you the loan and essentially give you a quote unquote good credit score.

Okay? So that's what happened to me. As long as you do 15-year fixed rate mortgage with at least 10% down, that's the other thing is you got to do it the Ramsay way, not going, well, I'm going to put 3% down on a, you know, USDA loan on a 30-year. You're going to have a harder time doing that. But if you're a strong borrower, meaning 15 year and 10% down, they go, "All right, or 20% even better." And so that's what I would be focusing on is just stacking cash since you're doing so good instead of worrying about, "Do I need to open a credit card and start building my score and keep up% do not

I would spend your energy elsewhere." Sounds good. Thank you so much. Yeah, thanks for the call. And uh hang on the line. Kelly's going to pick up. We'll get you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke, which breaks all of that down for you. Hunter is in Arkansas up next. Hunter, what's going on?

Hey, man. How y'all doing? We're doing great. We're running a little short on time, so get right to the question. Let's see if we can help you.

Yeah, man. So, basically, uh, sum it all up. I'm just trying to do better at trying not to live paycheck to paycheck, you know. Um, I was going to see maybe if you guys have some tips on that.

Yeah, the first thing, you know, paycheck to paycheck is usually a symptom of a bigger problem. You're just feeling the effects of something bigger. It's usually a spending problem or an income problem. So tell us a little bit about your income.

Right. So this past year I just cleared over 117,000 and my total bills for each month is roughly around 3,000 a month.

Okay. And uh so yeah, I roughly make after taxes 1,400 a week. That gives me a little bit of uh once I move everything to my bills account, I roughly have $550 to $600 a week after that to spend freely.

So you're bringing home 7273,000 or so and your expenses are 36,000 a year. So you should have half your income sitting somewhere, but you're saying it's disappearing and you're not able to cover all the bills.

Well, no, it's not necessarily I'm not covering bills. I got the bills are taken care of. Like I got a whole another account where it automatically direct deposits into my bills account. So those are all on autopay. It's just more so the the free spending money as well as trying to cut into me trying to save some of that as well.

Do you have any debt? Yes. So I I got a truck payment, uh a sideby-side payment, student loans, and rent.

Student loans. How much are the student loans? Uh the balance is right at $11,000 and the payment is $121 a month.

Okay. What do you owe on the truck and what do you owe on the side by side? The truck I owe49,000 and the side I owe 23,000.

Goodness gracious. There's your problem right there. My ding ding ding. We found a winner.

Yeah, dude. You got $73,000 in toys going down in value and you make a little over 100,000. It's just simply way too much. Which means I think uh one or both of these things should be sold to free up a whole lot of income. What's the payment on the side by side and the truck?

The truck is uh 1,130 and the side is 575. Woo. And what's your rent every month?

Well, we split it so it's 475. So my part is 475. Goodness. Your your truck payment is like triple your rent,

right? Do you see the problem here? You're going, "Hey, I'm living a paycheck to paycheck." It's like, "Doctor, what's going on? I don't know why I'm in pain." And we're like, "Dude, you got a knife in your back. That's what's going on." It's the truck and the side by side.

It's that. And I mean, for a guy who's making, you know, I don't know. What did you tell me? 1,400 bucks a week. I You're spending on something. You Do you have a girlfriend?

Yeah, I do. Yes, sir. All right. Do you have a budget? Uh, no. We try It's in my head.

It's a mental budget. Yeah, that's I think that's your big problem. I mean, don't get me wrong, this truck and this side by side are a problem. You need to sell um one of them probably instantly and then do the work to pay off the other, but uh you got to get on a budget first and foremost. I think if you get on an every dollar budget, you're going to see where all this money is slipping through the cracks. My guess is it's on social life. I think you're at that. like you get off work, go get a drink with your boys, take your girl out, going out on the weekends, all of those things.

Door Dash here, Uber Eats there. Kelly's going to pick up and make sure you get set up with every dollar so you can get back on track.

We're rooting for you, man. This is a solvable problem. All right, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "When Unexpected Consequences Force You to Grow Up | January 29, 2026"?

George Camel (Host), Jade Warshaw (Host), Thomas (Guest), Sarah (Guest), Malcolm (Guest), Christian (Guest), Mike and Kim (Guest), Mindy (Guest).

What is "When Unexpected Consequences Force You to Grow Up | January 29, 2026" about?

This discussion centers on the unexpected challenges young couples face when dealing with unplanned pregnancies, highlighting the emotional and financial pressures involved. The conversation emphasizes the importance of communication, planning, and growth as they navigate the complexities of relationships, responsibilities, and future decisions together.

What is mentioned in this The Ramsey Show episode?

10 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including George Camel, Jade Warshaw, Dave Ramsey, TSP. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "When Unexpected Consequences Force You to Grow Up | January 29, 2026"?

The episode runs 2 h 7 min; the transcript is about 23,547 words in 452 timestamped sections.

More from The Ramsey Show

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 29, 2026.