Transcript

You Can’t Build Wealth While Carrying Other People's Problems | January 1, 2026

From The Ramsey Show · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 2 h 7 min · 23,067 words · 477 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "You Can’t Build Wealth While Carrying Other People's Problems | January 1, 2026", an episode of The Ramsey Show published January 1, 2026 (2 h 7 min, about 23,067 words). It mentions 45 people, works and ideas, including TSP (Thrift Savings Plan), budget, John Deloney, The Ramsey Show, Baby Steps.

What this episode is about

The discussion focuses on the importance of establishing a solid financial plan to alleviate money stress and achieve wealth, emphasizing that individuals cannot attain financial success while burdened by the financial problems of others. It addresses a specific case where a young couple grapples with their in-laws' financial difficulties and the implications of assisting underage siblings financially.

Key takeaways

  • Normal is broke: Ditch 'normal', embrace 'weird' common sense for financial peace by 2025.
  • A 10-year-old shouldn’t be the family breadwinner—time for adults to own their choices.
  • Coffee: Not just a brew, but a truth serum between worried daughters and struggling moms.
  • Financial trouble is temporary; shape your 40-year future by today's tough conversations.
  • Bad financial habits aren’t a life sentence—find the detour to a prosperous life.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 15:00: Xander, budget, ID theft protection, John Deloney
  2. – 30:00: Mama Bear, John Deloney, Mama Bear Legal Forms, Proverbs 17:18
  3. – 45:00: budget, Fair Winds Credit Union, Baby Steps, Fort Worth
  4. – 1:00:00: Home Buyer Edge, Baby Steps, budget, Church Hill Mortgage
  5. – 1:15:00: Baby Steps, Dairy Queen, Jack Carr, John Deloney
  6. – 1:30:00: budget, John Deloney, The Ramsey Show, Christian Healthcare Ministries
  7. – 1:45:00: Baby Steps, budget, Financial Peace University
  8. – 2:00:00: Baby Steps, budget, 2 Corinthians 1:4, Concord, New Hampshire
  9. – 2:06:33: Christ Jesus, The Ramsey Show

Notable quotes from "You Can’t Build Wealth While Carrying Other People's Problems | January 1, 2026"

  • Dr. John Deloney, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author and host of the runaway hit on Ramsey Network, the Dr. John Deloney Show. He is my co-host today. Cody is in Nebraska. Hi,.
    about John Deloney · at
  • All. and if they were abusing the children physically, we would just turn them over to children's services, right? Yeah, that's not happening.
    about children's services · at
  • But do say, I'll I'll I'll cheer you on. I'll help you do a budget. I'll connect you with some people and pay for it for you to get some coaching to get yourself out of this. You've struggled with this your whole life. I've watched.
    about budget · at
  • Hey, it's Dave Ramsey. You've heard me talk about the importance of giving, and I love that Xander Insurance lives that out. This month, Xander is donating 25% of all ID theft…
    about Xander · at
  • Important to put off, and making a will is one of them. That's why I recommend Mama Bear Legal Forms, because I've seen it too many times. Families are grieving a loss. And on…
    about Mama Bear · at
  • So I bought a vehicle your baby steps.
    about Baby Steps · at
  • You've got to be prepared and do it the Ramsay way. You need to contact Churchill Mortgage. Their home buyer edge program gives you peace of mind in a wild market. You can cap…
    about Home Buyer Edge · at
  • Okay. So that part where they went through Financial Peace University, they flunked the class cuz we tell you not to do that ever. Don't ever loan your children money.
    about Financial Peace University · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • John Deloney — Person · 8 mentions · first at
  • George Camel — Person · 1 mention · first at
    George Camel here with a quick PSA before the calls start coming in. If you want to leave the money stress in 2025, you need a plan that works. So take what you learn today and put it to work in.
  • Jack Carr — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Really good. I sent it, just share it. Just do, anytime you read a good book, Jack Carr's got a new book out. if the guy the terminal list he's read every one of his and so…
  • Christ Jesus — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

Books & papers

  • Proverbs 17:18 — Book · 1 mention · first at
    [clears throat] ultimately get, but she thought she did. And so, I get it. I completely get it. Proverbs 17:18 says in the scripture, One lacking in sense cosigns for another.

Companies & orgs

  • The Ramsey Show — Company · 7 mentions · first at
    Transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.
  • Fair Winds Credit Union — Company · 4 mentions · first at
    Weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.
  • The Dr. John Deloney Show — Company · 2 mentions · first at
    Number one best-selling author and host of the runaway hit on Ramsey Network, the Dr. John Deloney Show. He is my co-host today. Cody is in Nebraska. Hi, Cody. How are you?
  • Team Rubicon — Company · 2 mentions · first at
    I love that Xander Insurance lives that out. This month, Xander is donating 25% of all ID theft protection sales to Team Rubicon, a veteranled disaster response organization…
  • App Store — Company · 2 mentions
  • Ramsey Network — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.
  • children's services — Company · 1 mention · first at
  • Xander Insurance — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Hey, it's Dave Ramsey. You've heard me talk about the importance of giving, and I love that Xander Insurance lives that out. This month, Xander is donating 25% of all ID theft…
  • Mama Bear Legal Forms — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Important to put off, and making a will is one of them. That's why I recommend Mama Bear Legal Forms, because I've seen it too many times. Families are grieving a loss. And on…
  • Google Play Store — Company · 1 mention · first at
    You're going to put it in the Apple Store and you're going to put it in the Google Play Store and people are going to download it onto their phone, right?
  • Church Hill Mortgage — Company · 1 mention · first at
    You've got to be prepared and do it the Ramsay way. You need to contact Churchill Mortgage. Their home buyer edge program gives you peace of mind in a wild market. You can cap…
  • Why Refi — Company · 1 mention · first at
    And defaulting on debt makes you feel even worse. But our question of the day sponsor, Why Refi refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on…
  • Dairy Queen — Company · 1 mention · first at
    The old Oh, okay. there's some there's some old Dairy Queen napkins in the glove box. I'll just eat those. Y'all just go eat wherever you want to. I'll just eat the old Kleenexes. and I'll just sit in the car and be cold. And when.
  • Christian Healthcare Ministries — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Panic. Most health plans lock you out for the year if you didn't sign up by December. But Christian Healthcare Ministries lets you join anytime. CHM offers a simple, flexible…
  • NCUA — Company · 1 mention
  • NFL — Company · 1 mention

Products & tech

Concepts & topics

  • TSP (Thrift Savings Plan) — Concept · 14 mentions
  • budget — Concept · 10 mentions · first at
  • Baby Steps — Concept · 6 mentions · first at
  • ID theft protection — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
    I love that Xander Insurance lives that out. This month, Xander is donating 25% of all ID theft protection sales to Team Rubicon, a veteranled disaster response organization…
  • Home Buyer Edge — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
  • MVP (minimum viable product) — Concept · 2 mentions
  • Ramsey coach — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    And so that's going to involve maybe what I would pay is for them to get with a Ramsey coach. And the Ramsey coach boxes her ears and says, You have to sell the three cars. You…
  • Roth IRA — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    You got to go put money in a Roth IRA and you got to put money in other stuff.
  • solar array — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Hope or I hope you guys can help me with. my husband and I are considering putting in a solar array to offset our utility bill and I was I just wanted to like bounce the numbers off of you and see if it was a smart move with where we're at.
  • 2 Corinthians 1:4 — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Our scripture today, 2 Corinthians 1:4, he comforts us all in our troubles so we can comfort others. When we when they are troubled, we will be able to give them the same comfort God has given.
  • Baby Step 2 — Concept · 1 mention
  • CDL — Concept · 1 mention
  • IRA — Concept · 1 mention

Places & events

  • Fort Worth — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Patrick's in Fort Worth. Hi, Patrick.
  • Concord, New Hampshire — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Amberly is with us in Concord, New Hampshire. Hey, Amberly. How are you?

Sponsors

Full transcript with timestamps

George Camel here with a quick PSA before the calls start coming in. If you want to leave the money stress in 2025, you need a plan that works. So take what you learn today and put it to work in every dollar. Download the app and start for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author and host of the runaway hit on Ramsey Network, the Dr. John Deloney Show. He is my co-host today. Cody is in Nebraska. Hi, Cody. How are you?

You know, Dave, I am better than I deserve. How are you? I'm better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, guys, um I'm going to start off with a little bit of a doozy here, so I do apologize, but uh my wife and I have just recently found out that her parents are asking my wife's, uh sisters that are under 18 for money for basic bills. Um, we don't really know. You know, I've heard in the past you guys say like, "Don't say anything unless they come to you and ask for help or guidance." Um, we're just kind of stuck because, um, you know, my sister-in-laws are 10, 12, and then 17. Um, so I'm just kind of we're kind of confused on what to do.

How much money do they have? Well, so my so the younger sister-in-laws, they were, you know, working over the summer. Um, so basically what happened was is, you know, uh, my sister, my 10-year-old sister-in-law told us that, well, mom and dad kept saying that we don't have enough money for groceries this month and blah blah blah. So, I offered him my $400 that I got from dogsitting and they took it for groceries. And then um our or my 17-year-old sister-in-law came over two weeks ago and said that they had quote unquote borrowed $1,000 from her for for bills for last month to cover.

Is this true? Are they struggling that bad? I I I would I would say so. Yes. It's been talked about. You know, a couple months ago, my wife overheard that they are like $10,000 short a month. He my father-in-law owns his own business, and it's been I know it's been struggling for quite a while.

So, I I want to put things in order. I have, you hear us say on the all the time, you can't help family unless they come ask you.

But before that, I'm always going to protect kids. Of course. And if you got a 10year-old that's coming to you saying, "Dad is saying, "I don't have enough money for groceries. I need your dog sitting money." Then I would I personally I would insert myself into that situation.

Okay. Okay. And that's what we were thinking because, you know, it's it's really hard for me to have respect for people like that that, you know, they are in a situation where they rely on everybody else to get them out of their problems. They blame everybody else except for themselves. Um, a lot of this is self-caused just based off their their career choices that they've had. So, it's hard for me to have respect. It's hard for my wife to have respect as well. So,

how long have you how long have you been worried? Uh, it'll be two years in February. Okay. Um, yeah, I'm going to take back what I said. I would have your wife call, not you but

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And um I I think she Yeah, cuz here's the thing. If the two of you go over there at 2 years into this and insert yourself in this situation, you are changing the trajectory of the next 40 years.

Of course. Yep. It's not simply this situation. Um yes, what you're describing is 100% disgusting. I'm not questioning that at all. Um, and if they were abusing the children physically, we would just turn them over to children's services,

right? Yeah, that's not happening. Be that simple. Um, because we're just not going to allow that to happen. They're just abusing them financially.

And um, so I I think um but I don't think your wife your wife's what, 20some years old?

Yeah, she's uh she's 23. Yeah. If she sits down with her mom and dad and says, "Y'all need to stop this. Sh to become responsible adults. My guess is there's about a 0% chance that that's going to have any impact

110%. And if you show up saying I don't respect you guys, they're going to tell you to get out of their house. That's not going to help either.

Yeah, that's a 40 year that's a 40-year long discussion. Um I'm trying to think, in other words, what will work is more what I'm thinking about.

What what Dave, tell me if I'm wrong. So, my thought is when I when I say insert myself into that, it would be your wife calling mom and dad and saying, "Can we talk?" Um, and she's got to be careful because the backlash could come down on a 10-year-old, right?

Yeah. Um, but we just heard, you know, and my Sorry, go ahead. And and my idea at first was like, you know, my wife, I told her, I was like, "What if you like take your mom out to coffee and be like, you know, mom, we've heard some of this stuff from, you know, my sisters. Like, how bad is it?

Is it is it really is that really happening? Are y'all really that bad?" Yeah. And is is there is there ways we can help or is there ways we can support you? Or is there education? They may say, "Absolutely not." And then it's about giving your your niece or your sister-in-law, if you will, a safe place that she always knows she's loved somewhere else, but that's just going to she's going to have eight years of mom and dad borrowing money.

Exactly. Exactly. And you know, that's our fear because, you know, they're setting the kids up for just a lifelong

Yeah. But but dude, you're 25. You're 24. I would stay out of that for right now.

Yeah. That's not That's not Okay. That's actually not true either. It's a it's a bad it's a bad on-ramp to life, but it's not an on-ramp that can't be corrected. A lot of us have bad on-ramps.

Yeah. Um and then we get the opportunity to meet Jesus and change our life. Okay. So,

uh and those kids have got the same thing. They're not being physically abused. So,

yeah. So, let me refer when I say insert myself, I don't mean you flex and put on a sleeveless shirt and go bang on the door. I I think I think your wife

taking mom out for coffee, taking dad out, and saying, "Hey, we just happened to hear this.

H I'm worried about y'all. How how bad?" I'm worried about my sisters. Yeah. How bad is it?

Definitely. And then y'all two have a hard conversation about could you help, will you help, and all that cuz the next question is going to be, well, can we have $500?

Um, and y'all already have that predetermined discussion before she heads into that.

No, go ahead. I'll give you the answer to that. No, you're right. because they're saying they're $10,000 short a month.

So, I'm not throwing good money after bad. So, I we only give Ramsay's only give into situations where we create a sustainable story.

We don't throw money at something $5 at something that's a $100 problem. That's not you're not creating a sustainable story. Then you've got to fix the problem. You got to get down under it. And so that's going to involve maybe what I would pay is for them to get with a Ramsey coach. And the Ramsey coach boxes her ears and says, "You have to sell the three cars. You guys, you cannot afford these stupid cars. You can't afford to live in that house. Oh, maybe you need to get a job because your life your your business is not a business. It loses money. It's called a hobby. And so, no, we're going to have, you know, these types of things are going on under the scene because if they're $10,000 short, the $1,000 from the 17-year-old or the $400 from the 10-year-old doesn't fix it, nor does $500 from you fix it. So, don't do that.

But do say, "I'll I'll I'll cheer you on. I'll help you do a budget. I'll connect you with some people and pay for it for you to get some coaching to get yourself out of this. You've struggled with this your whole life. I've watched you. I'm your daughter. And, you know, I'd love for you to be free from these demons."

And you and I have talked about this before on the air, but parents don't like hearing money advice. So, if she sits down and says, "Y'all need to start." That's not going to go well. But that idea of sitting down and saying, "Hey, I'm worried about you. How bad is it? Are y'all okay?" Um,

we are and then tell them your story. That's a different avenue. Yeah, we are on a budget and it's giving us great peace. We have sold some stuff to be able to get in get our our income in line with our outgo and it's given us great peace. And if I could ever help you get with our coach, we'll show you how to do that. That kind of thing.

Hey, it's Dave Ramsey. You've heard me talk about the importance of giving, and I love that Xander Insurance lives that out. This month, Xander is donating 25% of all ID theft protection sales to Team Rubicon, a veteranled disaster response organization that deploys wherever disaster strikes, boots on the ground, helping families rebuild, and offering real hope for communities in crisis. Xander's been supporting causes like Team Rubicon for over a decade, donating over half a million dollars. That kind of track record shows I can trust them, not just with my money, but helping protect my identity, too. Xander's ID theft protection plan is the only one I recommend because let's face it, identity theft is out of control. In today's online world, it's not a matter of if, but when. Xander plan is comprehensive, affordable, and you can even give it as a gift. So protect your family and support a powerful mission

this Christmas. Go to xander.com or call 8003564282. That's xander.com. Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host and is with us in New Orleans. Hi Anne, how are you?

Hello, I'm fine. Thank you so much for taking my call. Our honor. How can we help?

Okay, my question is my husband and I, my ex-husband and I were a co-signer on my son's condo back in 2004.

[clears throat] And since that time he is un my son is unable to pay his mortgage because he's unemployed. He lost his job and

2004. No, no, no. We he purchased the condo in 2004. This past April he lost his job

and s and he's been unable to pay the mortgage. How many times did you pay it since 2004?

Oh, it's happened before. about 10 years ago, he ran into trouble paying his uh mortgage and he was able to do a forbearance and of course I assisted financially at that time.

Mhm. And you keep using the word unable. Is he unable or is he unwilling? Yeah. Why do you not have a job?

One of my best friends in the world is a parapolgic. He is unable. No. No. He's physically capable.

Okay. He has not and he has not found a job since April. He says he's looking one of the hottest you can't bond a job.

One of the hottest hiring markets in human history. He's chosen not to work. I guess so.

Okay. Let's use I just want to be I just want to call a spade a spade because it helps us make decisions, right?

Yeah. [clears throat] Now, yes, understand. You're still on the mortgage. Yes. We my ex-husband and I are co-signers, so we're responsible for paying the note if he does not.

Mhm. And he's not been paying it. Yes. So, I have been paying it since April. My ex-husband made about three of the mortgage payments. So, now I want to know what would be the best avenue for me to convince my son to sell it. Let it go for foreclosure. And I told him, or else you get a job and you pick up the payment. But I don't want it to go to foreclosure because I don't want it to affect my credit. I have an my credit rating is 820.

Every time it's paid late, it affects your credit. Yes, I understand. So, I just don't know if there's any options for me.

Is he on the note at all? Co-signer. Is he on the note? He's my my son is the owner of it.

Yeah, he's on the note. She's a cosigner. Yeah. Yeah. You can't force him to sell it. You can just talk him into selling it. Will he sell it if you tell him to?

No, he's dragging his feet about that. He really doesn't. Well, he's dragging his feet because he knows you're going to pay for 20 years. You bailed him out.

Yes, I understand that. And you've probably given him some stern talking to over the last 20 years and then

Yes, I have. You still paid it. So, yeah, he's dragging his feet because you taught him how to. I think he had to sit down and say, "I'm not paying this rent." I Dave, I'll leave it to you. I mean, it's going to it's going to ruin your your

Yeah, you're you're going to get foreclosed on if he gets foreclosed. Yeah, that's how this works.

So, can you afford to buy him out? I could, but I I I just don't know what my best options are because if I buy if I if he would sell me the condo, then it's mine, right, for me to do what I want with it.

Exactly. And then you can then you just sell it. then he you sell it and right resell it and get your money back out and at least that way you didn't lose anything. Um but yeah, you can just say all right let's get it appraised. I'm going to buy it from you and then you put it on the market and sell it. That's what's best for you. That is unbelievably aggravating and it's not necessarily what's best for him. What's best for him is to experience some pain. Um, but but he's not going to in this scenario unless you do.

That's the problem with co-signing. You get to experience the pain with him. And he's going to play chicken with you and you've got a lot more to lose than he does financially, right?

Yes, I do. Yeah. And what's the what's the condo worth? Maybe about 40,000 worth

45. No, I would Well, in the He would be he would be lucky if he could get 60 for it. Oh my god. What do you owe on it?

30. Okay. And he's got 11 more years. Okay. Go go go go tell him that um you know he can no longer screw up your life with his laziness. He needs to sell you this condo even if you buy it for whatever. H have a real estate agent give you an appraisal. Buy it for that amount. Put it back on the market and resell it. And he needs to move.

Okay. Yeah. that protects you. I'm for some reason I thought this was a $600,000 condo.

It's a $60,000 and yeah, just you can you're you're you may lose a couple thousand bucks here or there by moving all this giration around, but you need to get out of this trap you put yourself in. And the trap is co-signing.

You can't get out of the trap. You're either going to be an enabler or you're not going to pay. And then he's going to get foreclosed on, which means you're going to have a foreclosure on you. And then they're going to come around looking for all of you wanting some money out of y'all because the condo won't bring enough at repo to even cover the old mortgage on it. But it's a piece of crap condo to start with.

Mhm. And I'm the one and I'm sorry. Will you forgive yourself for the divorce? Finally.

Yeah. Yes. You're still trying to make that right with him? Stop. It's 20 years.

Yes. Yeah, you're going to lose you're you're going to lose some money, but you're also going to lose your relationship with your son. It's not worth it.

Yeah. I I I would I would buy it from him, have him move out, and turn around, put it right back on the market, and sell it. And if you lose a little bit that way, that gets you out of this trap. And then you have a standalone relationship with your son that's mother's son that is no longer co-signer because co-signer is putting a strain on everything. It's making you do things you're not you don't feel good about.

And it makes you resent your son. Every time that phone rings, you you feel your chest tighten up because what's he going to ask? Like it's it's altered your relationship.

What's he going to ask for now? Yeah. This time cuz you're aggravated with him like we are for being lazy, not working since April. My god. How much does it take to pay the condo note on 30,000 bucks? I mean, you can you can like do Uber one day a month and pull this off. This is about the laziest human I've run into. Um, that's pretty rough.

I mean, really. Yeah. Think about it. It's just I mean, it's not like it's a lot of money. I don't even know how the boy's eating. Oh, yeah. I do. And

Yeah. Ann's take making sure he's got groceries. Yeah. So, Ann, you got to stop it. It's time. You put him on the put him out and let him figure out how to do life and just love him from a distance. Uh, that doesn't include your checkbook for the rest of his life. And that's the biggest favor you can do him and yourself. And moms and dads out there, never ever cosign.

It's not an act of love. It's not it's it's the ultimate enabling and it locks you into enabling because out of self-preservation, you have to cover the stupidity of the other party. What about this Dave? I'm trying to think of how this situation for her could go wrong. Is there a a moment when, and again, I know I'm speaking in ratios here, but $50,000 against what Ann has is not a lot of money. Can she buy this thing and hand it over to him and walk indust? Is that too much enabling?

I wouldn't do that. No. Yeah. No, I think I think it's I think he's not going to move is what I He's not going to sell it

to his mom. Yeah. Well, then I would just take the pain of being foreclosed on.

You would? I just stop. Okay. You're either going to sell it to me or uh the days of me giving you money are done.

They're over that. And that's what I'm getting at. Either you're either either you're going to sell this to me or you're going to have to figure it out.

Okay. I'm done. Okay. Because that's this is so bad for him. Yeah. She stunted his emotional growth.

I mean, he's six years freaking old. Yeah. He can't can't get a job since April to pay condo notes on 30,000 bucks. This is lame.

Yeah. This is really a lame boy. Especially when we talk to elementary school teachers trapped in a New York apartment during COVID who pay off six figures because they drive and scratch and claw and flip and do whatever they got to do.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Tough, man. Could sell enough clothing out of his closet assignment sale.

Could plasma your way to that one. It's just it's just not any money. So, um Yeah, honey. You got to you got to get him free of you and you got to get free of him in order to have a decent relationship with him and in order for him to ever be a real man

and it's going to cost you that precious 820 that you really you're really proud of. It's going to cost you gives a crap about that.

Let that stupid thing go. Yeah. Oh my gosh. That condo's never been late. She paid it on time every time.

Every time. It's never been late. It wouldn't be 8:20. This is the Ramsy show. I know life gets busy. The to-do list never ends, but some things are just too important to put off, and making a will is one of them. That's why I recommend Mama Bear Legal Forms, because I've seen it too many times. Families are grieving a loss. And on top of that, they're stuck in court fighting over paperwork all because someone didn't take a little time to get their will in place. That's not what you want for your loved ones. You want peace. You want clarity. You want focus on what matters most, being present and leaving a legacy. With Mama Bear, you can create your will in just 20 minutes, right from the comfort of your home. It's simple, legally binding, and doesn't require an expensive attorney or hours of confusing paperwork. And I'll tell you, almost every person who uses Mama Bear says the same thing. If I would have known how

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Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Judy is in Los Angeles. Hi Judy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi. Um I am a longtime listener and uh first time caller. Okay. I'm on baby step six

and I listen to your show all the time and you recommend never to cosign for someone. Correct. But I h I'm in a situation when I do want to cosign for somebody under a certain circumstance.

So my my h my husband's cousin, first cousin, she's been on section 8 anyway. She lost that. Now she's in her 60s. She needs to get an apartment. there's a special needs trust that her parents have set up for her and in order for her to get into an apartment um she needs to have someone co-sign where her brother who is the trustee refused to do so and I was wondering

warning warning why would her brother who loves her more than you do he's her brother for God's sakes not want to cosign

he he's he doesn't love her oh He actually doesn't mind if she goes home. Yes. No, that's true.

And it's totally true. It's from a very dysfunctional family. He's not willing. His wife is telling me he's willing to let her go homeless if they have to.

There's more to this story than you are telling or believing. Well, she's u she has a problem. She has personality disorder.

That's why that's right. Okay. She's she's in her 60s. She's never worked in her life. She always section 8.

She lost that. Who who is the who is the custodian of this of the special needs trust?

Her brother her brother. So would will you have access to the funds for this apartment or does she have access to the funds?

Right. So what I'm going to ask if it's okay if that works if you agree that's the you know right thing for me to do. I can try to ask a brother for 14 months of pay in an account to me and then I will transfer that to her monthly.

Mhm. Is that okay? If funding is available for a whole year, is it safe for me to cosign?

I wouldn't. What if she trashes the place? She Well, she won't trash the place, but she might, you know, um No, she's not like that, but she will she might have trouble with neighbors. That's the only That's the kind of problem she has. or gets kicked out or there's four has four people over or

gets sweet talked people over, she'll just like she loves cats. She'll probably, you know,

take care of break all the rules. Rules don't apply to her. That type of thing.

Rules don't apply to her. Yeah. And Judy, we're going to tell you no. If if this money's available, then she can get the apartment under her name. You can write the checks every month for her. If she can't do that, that's fine.

But you don't need a coach. But I feel But how do I prove to the apartment people that there's money available?

Well, you would have to have the money available. Yeah. Print off a statement. Yeah. And

can I show Do I show them? What What do I do? Because we're in California. There's a lot of these places and I don't live at the same town as she does. So, it's not easy for me to like take her somewhere and talk to someone, you know?

Well, you get on the phone with the apartment manager and you say, "This is what's going on. She has a special needs trust. brother's going to send you documentation. He's going to end the documentation, send it to the property manager and say, "Uh, we'll set aside the first 14 months and go ahead and just prepay the rent for 14 months." That's fine, too.

Oh, just prepay. Yeah, but you don't cosign. And they're going to try to get you to cosign

because you have a blind spot here, kiddo. this this lady is uh she's gotten a hold of your heart and she's sweet and she does need someone to help her. But we need to define help very carefully. Help involves her behaving. And you're not willing to make that requirement, nor can you make that guarantee based on her 60 years of misbehavior.

Right? You're going to get screwed if you do this. Please don't do it. Okay? It's going to go up in flames. Okay. So, I told the apartment that I have money, but I need to show some proof, right, to the trust.

Yeah. The the the brother's going to have to send documentation. Yeah. And by the way, you don't have this money, Judy. You still have to go through a guy that you say doesn't even love her, doesn't care about her, doesn't care if she ends up on the street,

right? So, all of this is like two hypotheticals removed from reality. And let me help you with this, okay? It's not that he doesn't love her. It's from the 16 times he tried to help her and it burned him and he's done being burned. So, he's putting up a boundary. That's different than not loving. And you got you're calling it not love and a dysfunctional family. I'm calling her a dysfunctional person who needs love and help but has burned everything around her to the ground to the point her own brother won't help her. You can't put that on him.

I'm not going to let you do it. Yeah. I don't even know him. And I'm not going to let He's not the jerk in this story. Okay. And there's not a jerk in this story. There's a sad lady with mental illness. And you're going to get burned to the ground when her mental illness activates if you're signed on the documents.

Yeah. Don't sign. Just I I don't know an apartment complex that won't take your check if if you got it. So if they won't take your money, so she can get her own place.

Hey, listen. I'm a landlord. If I know what's going on here, I'm not putting her in there.

That's fair. That's fair. Because prepaying the rent ain't half my problem. It's the 93 cats that end up in my building,

right? Or all the neighbors or whatever. Or she burns the neighbor's cat alive in the front yard. I don't know what's going to happen here. I don't know. I don't know what's going on with her. No, I don't want her as a tenant under any circumstances. Co-signer, prepaid, double paid. No. Thank you. Yeah.

Life's too short to sign up for drama as a landlord. So, that's what you're going to that's what you're going to face, hun, more than anything else. So, you're Please, honey, don't don't confuse this. and you you're trying to do a nice good noble thing in a really um naive and unwise way. That was that was kind.

Yeah, that that's the best way to say it. And I I think this is a bigger conversation, Dave. When you want to help somebody and you get all these scenarios in your mind and then you spend all these nights and weeks worrying about it, all of this phone call could have been already headed off. You could have already sat down with your brother. You could have already called an apartment complex and taken all these worrying variables off the table so that you know, okay, here's the final step here. And you probably would have found out a long time ago, you either don't need to do be a cosigner or nobody's going to let her to live there.

You're going to have to come up with another option, right? But there's always like, well, then I might do this and then after that I'm going to do you don't even know if all this is is is going to happen and you're so spun up about it. Just go find out. Find out. [clears throat]

I cosigned for stuff when I was young and foolish and I ended up paying it. One poor guy cosigned for me. I went bankrupt. He ended up paying it. I had to go back and pay him later. His wife still don't like me. Yeah. 35 years later. So, it's okay. It's valid. I mean, I She got screwed. They didn't [clears throat] ultimately get, but I mean, she thought she did. And so, I get it. I completely get it. Proverbs 17:18 says in the scripture, "One lacking in sense cosigns for another."

When I co-signed, Judy, I was lacking in sense. If you cosign this, the Bible says you're lacking in sense. I didn't say it. Get mad at God. Don't do it. That wasn't That was That was pretty good.

I mean, you you kind of brought the Bible out. So, there you go. There we go. Brought the Bible out. Yeah, that that's the final right there.

That's the final one. That's the one. Open phones at8255225. Kim is in New York. Hi, Kim. How are you?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So, I wanted to know how to save uh money for a mortgage down payment while you're paying rent.

Very hard. It is. Yeah. Um, are you How much debt have you got? Um, I can go through the numbers and I can tell you.

No, just how much debt have you got? Just give me the total. Uh, I want to say about 40,000.

How much of that your car? Well, to me and my husband together, it's about uh he owes I owe 16 and he owes about 20.

Okay. How much is the car? My car total with the insurance just insurance or just the car?

No, the debt on the car. How much debt is on the car? About 16. Okay. All right. Of your 40 or of your Yeah. of your 40. So, half of it's your car. Okay.

So, here's the simple answer, but it's not a simple answer. Is when you don't have any debt payments, you'll have more room in your budget.

So, before you start worrying about saving for a down payment on a house, let's clear the debt off. That may mean selling a car. It may mean taking an extra job. It will mean not eating out. It will mean not going on vacation so that I can get out of debt. Cuz if you didn't have any payments, oh, you'd have money to save for your down payment. That's where it comes from. Your most powerful wealthb buildinging tool is your income. Don't give it to somebody else and then you'll have it to save for a down payment. Simple, but hard. This is the Ramsey Show.

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today. Go to joindeelme.comy for 20% off an annual plan. That's jointdeme.comsey. Thanks for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888255225. Patrick's in Fort Worth. Hi, Patrick. How are you?

I'm doing good, Dave. Good. How can I help? Hey, I've got a question. I've got a question. I've got a patent pending on a mobile application and I'm wanting to raise funds to get my MVP off the ground, right? Um, and I've I've had a a friend of mine and and offer to give me a loan to do this, but I've been listening since to you since I was 12 years old. Um, lost everything last year in a divorce, literally everything. Um, and I'm wanting to go back up, but I don't want to give up my entire my entire percentage of my company in getting with a traditional investor and I really don't have access to traditional investors. So, I'm just kind of curious because it's kind of hard to crowdfund with a patent pending also. So, I'm just kind of curious what you might have on that.

Okay. Um, so remind me again the what the patent is on. Okay. It's on a mobile application.

A mobile application. Like a phone application. A phone app. Like a an app for your phone.

And why do you have to have a patent for a phone app? Well, it's just it's just something new that is uh well, I mean, it's a

I mean, you're going to put it in the Apple Store and you're going to put it in the Google Play Store

and people are going to download it onto their phone, right? Right. But it's a new and novel idea that nobody has ever put into play before. I mean, I literally

You don't need a patent for that. Is it a copyright? You don't need a patent for that.

No. No. He told me I couldn't copyright, but basically it would make it to where that somebody else couldn't redo that app. They couldn't make a they couldn't make another um you know uh because there there you can I've patent I've started the process to patent a process in the app just like

okay so stop okay so how much are you spending to get the patent pending so that's already I've already paid that

okay so you're done okay so you've got so why why do you need money to launch something in the Apple store it doesn't cost anything Well, well, the in order to get the in order to get the um the actual application built, the MVP, the minimum viable product, and and to build that.

Oh, you've not built the app yet. No, I just patent pending the idea or the technology.

No, the technology is not done within. It's not. Okay. Are you not a programmer? You're not an engineer.

I'm not. No. No, I I' I've been a mom since I was 16 years old. I bought my first business at 24. Um I bought and sold several different businesses. I mean, I've I've But I lost everything last year and I'm just starting over.

Okay. So, all you need is the engineering done, right? You need you need a software engineer, right?

Mhm. So, what's it going to cost to to to turn this idea into an app? Uh the the lowest quote I've got is around 24 thou 24 to to $35,000.

Okay. You know, we've built a bunch of apps here. We've got apps all in the store. I mean, I've put them up, taken them down. I've uh we've got a little thing called the Every Dollar app that we've got a lot more than that invested in, obviously, but we've also got, you know, tens of millions of people in it and all that. Um, but even out of the gate, we had more than that in it. So, um, I'm just trying to think, uh, how we would do it because I don't borrow money and I don't bring in outside investors. You know that. You said you've been listening.

I don't I don't I don't want to give up. I don't want I wouldn't do it. I, you know, I would, you know, I mean, he even told me he would give it to me at 5%, but I don't want to take a loan and take money from your No. What partner? No. You You've been listening to us. You knew I was going to tell you not to do any of this. What's what's your what's your panic? Like what's the you feel panicked? Are you about to get beat to market or something? If you hold a patent, can't you exhale and go earn 30,000 bucks?

Well, the the thing is is yes, I I have probably 8 to nine months left of the of the status. See, my lawyer, he wants to do he wants to do a non-provisional, which is potentially give me 20 years protected, right? Um my uncle was an engineer, not in mobile stuff, but like he that's how he made his money. He had invented like one of the largest crash compactors in the United States. And I've run by the seat of my pants in this. I

What do you What do you Yeah, I know. I can tell. Um what what do you um do you have a job? Yeah, I'm I'm a truck driver, so I've always I go and got my CDL and I've I've bought and sold three different semi-truckss, but I lost I lost almost $400,000 income last year during the divorce, and I was paying $3,000 a month in child support, and it just ate me alive. Um, and I I did have $15,000 in debt in that, but I

Okay, let me stop you. All right, here here's there's something in this situation that smells to high heaven of desperation. like you you sound so desperate.

You called it an application when you're talking to us and it's not it's like an app.

It's a phone app. For God's sakes, this is not rocket search and so and you sound so in a hurry and so chaotic and so desperate. And all of those things tell me you're getting ready to do something really stupid cuz every time I get that sound in my voice like a beagle chasing a rabbit, that's about the time I'm about to do something dumb.

And I I can hear it on you. I'm just being honest with you. All right. So, what I would tell you to do, what I would tell you to do is this. I would tell you to slow your butt down.

Take a breath. Okay? That's what I'm going to tell you to do. And then, if you want to proceed with this, the only idea that comes to mind structurally on how to pull this off is to find a good software engineer and tell them you will pay them double their rate out of the proceeds. And so if this thing is really a big deal, okay, that, you know, it's $24,000 worth of stuff, I'm gonna pay you $48,000, the first $48,000 that we make on this, I'm going to pay you out and I'm going to pay you double and then they're done.

And the problem is, as soon as you get the thing up, and here here's what I'll teach you about apps. They're not one and done. You can't ship it and forget it.

[sighs] 100% of apps that go out that are successful are constantly being worked on and iterated. The negative thing about digital is you have to constantly work on it. The great thing about digital is you get to constantly make it better. So you're c you're not frozen. When I print a book, it's either good or bad. I'm stuck with it. It's on the shelf for the next 40 years. It's a printed book. when I put put something out in the digital world, I can change it tomorrow and I can change it the next day and I can change it the next day and make it better as I go along and I will. And so every the Every Dollar budgeting app does not even resemble the app that was launched under the name Every Dollar originally. It has iterated and upgraded, iterated and upgraded, iterated and upgraded almost every other week for years. And so your software engineering costs have just begun, my friend. If this is actually

going to work and be successful, your patent stuff is probably early and tremendous overkill. Um, you know, the number of times that people steal something on in an Apple store is just not that big. It doesn't happen much except the Chinese steal and stuff, right? And and duplicating it. But I mean, I'm talking about the number of times that someone just comes in, scarfs up an idea that because you didn't have it patented. Um, so you know it's you know, I don't I'm pretty sure none of the budgeting apps out there that are the top budgeting apps are are patented, just to give you an idea. And of course, here's the other thing. Soon as you patent it, you're going to iterate it and change it. So then you got to update the dad gum P. Yeah, this is not I don't know. I I So yeah, I do know I would slow down, breathe. If you want to involve a software engineer and pay them 1.5 or pay them two 2.0, know what

they're worth, but they only get paid out of the proceeds. And if there are never any proceeds, they get nothing. If it never works, they put in their money for nothing. If they want to join the venture for some extra money, that might be a way to draw somebody in. But the other thing you could do is you just could go make some money like John said and then just write somebody a check to have the first round of software engineering done. But be prepared. As soon as you start making a little money, you're going to spend most of that back into new software engineering cuz you're going to upgrade and iterate.

Upgrade and iterate. You do not ship it and forget it in the digital world, my friend. This is the Ramsey show.

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the NCUA. Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Dr. John Deloney, number one person, number one bestselling author personality. You're the number one person. That's it.

I'll take it. Yeah, you're all of that. and uh number one show on the Ramsey networks. Not really, but a big show on the Ramsey networks. He's number one everywhere in his mind. So check it all out. He's here to help you me this hour since my mouth is apparently not working. Open phones at8255225. Thomas is in South Dakota. Help us Thomas. What's up?

Hey Dave. Hey John. What's going on? I'm calling today because uh I'm 18 years active duty uh military.

Thank you. Um unfortunately Thank you. Uh unfortunately a couple years ago life happened um and I landed up getting divorced. Um with that before we got divorced my ex-wife and I we were completely debtree and uh I was able to contribute 60% of my income towards investments.

Holy. Um 40% was going to my TSP and another 20% was going to my kids college funds.

Wow. Um but now that I'm divorced, uh I've been divorced now for two years. Um, I have found myself accumulating a little bit of debt. I'm back at $57,000 worth of debt.

What in the world? What did you buy in two years? Uh, so I bought a vehicle uh your baby steps.

What kind of truck is it? Um, it's a Ford Raptor. Well, I think we found the problem, Thomas.

It's definitely part of it. Uh, no. It's the whole thing. It's all of it. Taylor Swift.

Get your divorce raptor truck. We know what it is, right? It's called I'm the problem. It's me.

So, my uh I'm calling because I can pay this debt off pretty quickly. What do you make? About $78,000 a year.

You make 78 a year. And you owe what? On the Raptor? I owe 57. Yeah. Uh, well, I owe 37 on the Raptor and 18,000 in uh credit card debt that I used to purchase furniture and stuff for the house that I got divorced.

Okay. All right. Um, I still contribute the 60% of my income towards my TSP. Um, you can't afford to do that if you're broke.

Um, so I was thinking, so my my philosophy here and what I was looking for is some guidance. Uh, I was thinking about cutting off my TSP. Um, however, in the divorce, uh, my ex-wife decided to go ahead, hey, your whole military pension is yours. I just want half the tsp. Um, I've still been contributing because in my head, I was like, I'd rather make a little bit more money on the back end versus stop contributing altogether and out of spite just not contribute because I don't want her to get Wait,

when does she get half? Now. Uh, uh, 67. What? Oh, no. Wait a minute. That's That's not possible.

Is this divorce isn't final, is it? Um, it is. Yes, sir. So, when we went to court, there was I had several different uh options that I could do. Um,

and you agreed to give her half of your TSP at age 67. Yes. Not h not what half of it becomes by then, but whatever's in there at H. That's not right. Something's wrong.

That's based off of what the lawyers were saying and stuff. They said that was the better of the deal.

Apparently, these lawyers didn't take math class. That's a horrible deal. Um, all right. So, you need to get clarification because I don't think you understand what really happened or you got the worst deal in the history of divorces.

I've never heard of this deal. This is what you got. It is normal for you to transfer half of your TSP to her. Now, that is a normal process in a divorce. And she can roll that into an IRA and have no taxes. It is very strange for her to get anything at age 67. Like, I've never heard of this in 35 years of doing what I do. That's strange. What they wanted to do was she would get half of my military pension on top of half of the TSP.

Yeah, that would be normal. But half the TSP today, not at 67. Well, now what the deal that they had worked out was she doesn't get any of the military pension. She only gets the PSP.

Okay. Now or at 67? At 67 when it matures. Okay. Then it should be half. What? half like you're half of your TS. How much is in your TSP today?

Uh 166. Okay. So half would be 80 84 thou 83,000. Okay. Right. Yes. Today. So whatever 83,000 grows to at age 67, she should get. But she shouldn't get half of everything you put in between now and then because otherwise you would put in nothing between now and then. Right. So, that was going to be my next question is if I just stop contributing alto together.

You have to contribute. Listen, if you did the worst deal in divorce history and she gets half of your TSP regardless of whether you put money in or not, that's the worst deal I've ever heard of in my life. I've never even heard of you get half at 67. That's just very weird, dude. Like, like these lawyers are completely freaking incompetent. Weird. Okay. But if you did do that, you need to go back and clarify. Is it what half of it today becomes what 83,000 becomes at 67 or is it just half of whatever's in there? Cuz if it's half of whatever's in there, you don't put another dime in it. You're done with that.

You got to go put money in a Roth IRA and you got to put money in other stuff. But you the TSP is off limits to you because she's going to take half of everything you put in there for the next you know how many how old are you?

Uh I'm 36. Yeah. Good God. For 30 years you're going to contribute to her. No thank you. You did the worst deal ever. So no, we're not doing that. That's dumb. That's dumber than a rock, man. I'm telling you that I'm so pissed at your lawyer right now. I can't see. I want to smack him.

This is horrible. But you did the deal. I guess it's final. So you need to go back and get clarity if she gets what half what 83,000 becomes or if she gets half of whatever's in there.

It's going to be whatever's in there. Otherwise, they would have just transferred the 83 out.

They should have just transferred the 83 out. That's what they should have done. That would be normal instead of this dumb butt thing they did.

So yeah, John is correct. It is whatever is in there later cuz I tried to fight and get the half now, but then there were like,

okay, then then here's what here's what it is. She gets half what that half becomes because it's not going to become anything else cuz you're not going to add anything else to it. You're stupid if you do.

Okay, but you are the one that signed this divorce decree also. So, oh my god, this is a horrible man. It's just horrible.

She has 30-year claim on future earnings for you. Jeez, man. Y'all have kids? But we have two of them.

I've heard I've heard a future. This is I want to get away from this woman really bad is what this is.

I've heard I've heard in a rightfully so a future claim on future earnings if you've got kids through the age of 18. Right. So if you were making 25 grand and suddenly you're making 150 grand.

That's child support. That's not this. That's child support. That's normal. That's that's what I'm saying. I've heard of that.

That's normal. But half the 401k is normal. Half the TSP is normal. But you transfer it now and it rolls out into an IRA and then she goes whatever she does with it. Okay, your answer is you have a truck you can't afford that you bought while you're grieving your broken heart and you broke your heart was broken by your wife and your idiot attorney. So you have two reasons for a broken heart. So you've got to sell this truck, honey. And I love Raptors. I drove one over here today. I like them, but this truck is brain damage. So it's killing you.

You cannot afford to drive this truck. It's more truck than you can afford with the money you make. Sell your truck. Get your budget back balanced. and move into the future. And please don't put anything else in this TSP.

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Guys, student loan debt is an epidemic and defaulting on debt makes you feel even worse. But our question of the day sponsor, Why Refi refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. You'll have a payment you can afford with a low fixed interest rate you couldn't get anywhere else. So go to yrefi.com/ramsey. That's the letter yrefy.com/rramsey. Might not be in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Abigail in West Virginia. Abigail writes, "My in-laws are too much to deal with, specifically my mother-in-law."

Abigail, she knows you wrote this. She I don't know how mother-in-laws know. They just know. She has to stick her nose into everything. She has a key to our house, which was bought by my husband before we got married. She's folded our laundry, cleaned our house, and moved stuff while we were not at home. Oh, man. I've asked my husband to talk to her, but he told me he couldn't do it and told me to chill out.

You don't have a mother-in-law problem. You have a husband problem. You have a husband problem.

He's a wuss. God almighty. [snorts] Man, that makes me so uncomfortable to think my mom would come over to our house. My mom's amazing, but my mom would come over and go through our

unsolicited go through our stuff without your permission. And even more uncomfortable is my wife said, "I need you this to not happen again." And I said, "I can't do it. I can't do it. I'm scared of my mommy."

Oh my gosh, Abigail, you have a husband problem. He needs to run down to Walmart on aisle three and pick up a backbone.

Yeah. And some pampers while he's there because he might tit in his pants while he talks to mommy. Y'all need to have this. I mean, this is

this is awful. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. This is awful. Uh, mother-in-law is going to do what? Here's the deal. I think if And maybe she's controlling. I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt. I think mother-in-law is trying to love her little baby the best she knows how.

She's trying to be helpful and she's screwed up. Yes. and she doesn't think you're loving him the say the right way, but she's not gonna say anything. She's just gonna keep doing it. And I think your cute little hubby is a gigantic 14-year-old and he needs to grow up real real quick. Yeah. So, um, if you say a thing, you start a 10-year feud. You can't say a thing. The only thing you can do is encourage your husband to get have a backbone. And um this is out of line. The boundaries are there's no boundaries here. This is ridiculous and it needs to stop yesterday. Um tell him you want the locks changed and you want him to talk call his mother and tell her to not come in your home without clearing it with both of you first that you're a married couple and this is weird and she shouldn't be doing this.

Mom, we love you. Thank you for the help. You can't do this anymore. I've changed the locks. your key is not good anymore and you don't need to come in our home anymore. It's a real short calm conversation and he needs to man up and do that. If he cannot do that, you do not have a mother-in-law problem. You have a husband problem and you'll need to sit down with a marriage counselor.

Correct? And by the way, it's a husband listening to this, you don't call your mom and say, "Hey,

my wife doesn't want you coming in the house anymore." You be a grown-up and you say, "I I messed up." Leave and cleave.

That's right. Leave your mother and father. We need to figure out how to do these things on our own.

Leave to your spouse. Golly, dude. And mother-in-laws, don't break into your kids' homes and do their laundry for them unless unless there's like a medical crisis or a newborn and they've asked for your help. Don't do that.

Even if there's a newborn and they ask for your help, you still ask permission.

Yes. Oh, of course. But I mean, that's what you've been invited. show up with a key that you had before they were married. So, one of the best practical jokes we ever played was a key. Have you ever heard this one?

No. I had a personal assistant 25 years ago, beautiful Christian lady, and she got engaged. So for her engagement party, all the guys, we took her to an ice hockey game in Nashville and the um the announcer at the hockey game was a friend of mine. And so uh one of the guys in the office that was with us was about 10 guys went all throughout the whole section and handed every guy a key. Went to the hardware store and got keys. And the announcer said, "Uh Sheree is getting married next week. Anyone that has a key to her apartment needs to bring it to her." and like 500 guys got up and started bringing keys to her. It was so it was such a wonderful practical joke. But yeah, that's that's much better than this one.

This just makes me sad. Yeah, this is bad. Yeah. So, and can I tell you this one thing? So, one time um a friend of mine, they were having some family stuff and uh it was a a couple friend of me and my wife's and we've known them forever and ever and ever. And they were going through some like just somebody passed away or something and I said, "Hey, let's get them a house cleaner

just to come in and clean up." And my wife looked at me and said, "Are you crazy?" Said, "What do you mean?" She said, 'You know what that would feel like to me if somebody came over to see us and then they hired someone to come clean my house?

Oh, it'd be like an insult. It insult. And so I got to say, mom coming over to clean the house and do the laundry is a little bit of a flex,

right? It's a little bit of a flex. And so it's like cooking the lasagna. It's like the recipe you got for lasagna.

You're not taking care of my little my little boy the way he deserves to be taken care of. I'll I'll come over and help. It kind of feels like Ray Romano's mom.

It's like It's like your underwear was folded wrong. That's Yes. I'm sorry, honey. I'll I'll do it for you.

Yeah. And so [clears throat] grow up. Mother-in-law flex. This whole thing makes me feel uncomfortable. Dave, I never feel uncomfortable. This one does.

This is like It's got It's got a little stalkeresque. It does. She's got a key and she sneaks in like Keeblers's elves or something and cooks and does laundry. No, cuz this is the kind of mother-in-law leaves a note that says, "Hey, I noticed things were messy, so I cleaned up and I vacuumed.

Y'all have a great night." And it's just like a little total flex. But if you say anything, it's like, "Oh, oh, I was just trying to help. I'm so sorry. I I won't help anymore."

Yeah. Right. Marty out the mart out. Mart out. She'll definitely m out. The old uh Oh, okay. Um there's some there's some old Dairy Queen napkins in the glove box. I'll just eat those. Y'all just go eat wherever you want to. Um, I'll just eat the old Kleenexes. Um, and I'll just sit in the car and be cold. And when you'all get done, y'all just come out. It's that.

Hey, I did run into a guy the other day that's opening a new food truck called Wherever You Want to Go.

That's the That's when everybody asks where they want to eat. It's wherever you want to go.

Wherever you want to go. Okay, we're heading. We'll go right there. There used to be a great little honky tonk in Leick, Texas called the library. We'd be like, "Where you going?" We're going to the library. All right. Good. The honky tonk. Going to the library.

Love it. All right, boys and girls, boundaries are necessary. Uh, and I will admit um that the hardest stage of parenting for me has been uh parenting children who are no longer in my control. It is the hardest stage to stay out of other people's business that are grown-ups, even if they are from my flesh and blood. And um so that does not matter. Uh, and I I I don't have any major issues. It's not like any of them are doing anything extremely stupid or something, but still just not telling grown-up people what they have to do with your dad voice. It it requires a little bit of discipline.

Yeah. Um, even even today, my son is studying for his first round of high school finals. He's a freshman. And I I know the science of studying. I know the pedigogy of studying. I have been a high school and a college teacher for my whole career. And he's got to go through this first round of finals studying the way his he rolls his eyes says, "Dad, I know." Okay. And right and it's hard because I want to go in there and say, "This is the way he's got to learn this time." And then next time we'll be able to speak from a place of, "All right.

All right. I need some help." Yeah. Show me how to do this. Right. And it's hard. It's hard when your when the your precious little Johnny's underwear isn't folded. Right. mother-in-law. It's Abigail's husband now.

Abigail, back up. Back up. Abigail, be cool. Be cool, man. She has to stick her nose into everything.

It's the move stuff while we weren't home. Ah, that one's weird. Yeah, the came back. The furniture's rearranged.

It's kind of like misery. Yeah, that's what I think. It's got a stalker-esque thing to it.

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That's netswuite.comy. Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. This is the Ramsey Show. The phone number is88255225. Thanks for hanging out with us. We appreciate you being here. If you want to help us out, we can use the help. We really can. Uh follow the show on the format or the platform that you're listening or watching. Click subscribe or click follow. It really helps our numbers big time and because it causes the show to be pushed forward with their algorithms and other people who don't know about it hear about it. It's the best promotion we get. And also you share the show. A lot of these uh apps and um platforms have a share button or a share feature and you can just send an episode to somebody and let them watch it or listen to it. I was listening to a podcast this week. Friend of mine was on Tucker Carlson. I said, "Hey man, listen to this." And I sent it to another

friend of mine just like that and uh Tucker's got a great podcast that's going big. It's going Zoom Zoom right now. And so on. So I listened to one of Joe Rogan that was going Zoom Zoom is really good. I sent it, you know, just share it. Just do, you know, anytime you read a good book, Jack Carr's got a new book out. uh if the guy the terminal list he's read every one of his and so yeah I'm telling everybody go get the new one it's good it's very cool so Falcon's brought me a copy of Jack's new book have you seen it

I saw that he signed it and he shot it oh I didn't see that it's got a bullet hole in it

fabulous if you don't know Jack he's he was a former SEAL and so these are all Navy Seal books and they're like you know shoot them up spy movie type stuff and they're great books fiction obviously and uh yeah but so it has a bullet hole in it. It's amazing. I I I maybe want to do that with my next book.

I think that would be fantastic. Has absolutely nothing to do with the book, which his does, but I still want to do it anyway. Yeah, that's pretty cool. All right. Uh Kathy's in Philadelphia. Hi, Kathy. Welcome to the Ramsay Show.

Hello. Um [clears throat] I'm calling today with a question I can hope uh or I hope you guys can help me with. Uh my husband and I are considering putting in a solar array to offset our utility bill

and I was um I just wanted to like bounce the numbers off of you and see if it was a smart move with where we're at.

Okay. Currently. Okay. Um so Hubs and I are like between baby steps five and six. I guess like we have a substantial amount of money in savings, but we haven't earmarked that. Like specifically this is child A, this is child B, there's their college fund.

Mhm. Um they're pretty young yet. Um three and five. Uh we feel like we've got some time to

So you would pay cash for the solar. That's what we want to do. How much is it um for the solar?

Uh the unit's about 53,000. Okay. And what is the um what's the break even on it? Uh they say they have it calculated out and we looked at the numbers about eight years we'd have it all back between like the ITC and our like state credits for Pennsylvania and FC and those things.

Okay, that's borderline. I usually look for a five to a seven-year break even. And um most of the time that you see that you're going to get that it's going to be in a area of the country that is um a lot of sun.

So I mean like you know Phoenix, Arizona type of a thing. You're you know that kind of thing. You're not going to it's a little different than Philly and not Seattle. You know that kind of stuff. So you just think about what you got. I don't know the technical parts. What I do know from the financial side is I've been doing this for 35 years. I've watched the solar panel efficiency as far as what's the break even meaning what do you pay for it? How does how quickly can it convert the energy? How efficiently can it convert the energy?

Thus, how fast it saves you money. I've watched the technology on that. Uh it's probably five or 10 times better than it was 30 years ago. It's really come a long long way. It used to just be total crap and now it's like I actually endorse solar companies in a couple of cities that we have talk radio on, you know, and I'm fine to do that as long I don't endorse financing it obviously. Um but um but generally I tell folks a five to a seven. Uh your eight is borderline. What I might do is see if they're selling you some bells and whistles you could take off that would still get you that would get you down to the 40,000 range or so and that might get you to a six or a sevenyear break even. Maybe they got you um you know with a convertible and power windows. I don't know. Right.

Right. Right. Absolutely. You know, check that out, learn about that. That's what I would do if I were in this situation. But uh

I'd run one more company, too. have one more company come over and get a give a bid and see what they're saying.

That's a good idea. Well, we ran two companies and we actually have gotten from 75,000 down to 52,000,000 by pitting them against each other. So, we feel like kind of

that's about where I mean, I could bring in a third company, but I feel like at this point, you know, if we've come down 25,000 almost

a good start. That's a good start. See, they got some margin in that crap, huh? That's cool. Okay. So, I knew they were making bank, but um uh yeah, I'm a fan of the technology. I'm not a fan of the You're not doing this, but for the rest of you out there that they really try to force a payment plan on you and go, "Look, your payment is less than the amount you're going to save on your electric bill." No, that's dumb butt stuff cuz the things are attached to your house and then you're you got a mess. You got an a lean on your property. You got all kinds of mess. No, do not finance them ever. Do not finance anything ever. You're listening to Dave Freaking Ramsay. Okay. So, but the uh but you're not doing that. But the that's for everybody else. The the technology has come a long long way. I will tell you this, Kathy. I think it's going to go a long way further.

So, like if you sell your house in seven years or eight years, probably what's attached to your house is crap.

Okay. Okay. It'd be like you had a 7-year-old computer or a 7-year-old cell phone. You know how much further it's come along. That's the rate. That's the pace of change in the technology. And so, don't think this is going to enhance the sale of your house. It's probably cluttering the sale of your house a decade from today. That's why I want you to get a quick break even on it because it's just, you know, what is a seven-year-old computer? A doors stop. You know, that's what it is. you know, it's like what? It has to boot up, you know. It's like, you know,

where's the DOS? What is this? What is this strange speech ball thing? You know, it's like, you know. So, um

I even handed one of our uh audio guys an old iPod that I found and said, "Hey, I want to pull the music off of it because my my I don't let my son have a phone out in the wild. Um but I said, I want you to fill it with old country songs."

And this he looked at me like I had just handed him a box of fresh dog turds. She's antiques.

What is this? I don't know what to do with this thing. Fresh dog. Yeah, I probably could have used a better analogy on your radio show, Dave, but

our radio show. You're radio show. There we go. Thank you. But yeah, it it was uh it was strange, but hey, he took it back and figured it out man.

Yeah, there you go. Well, because he's that guy. Alex is with us. Alex is in Tallahassee. Hi, Alex. How are you?

Good. How about yourself, Dave and John? Good. How can we help? Yeah, I uh my wife and I have a little scenario. We currently have uh owned seven properties. Uh one of them is my primary residence and then six investments. The three of the investment properties are paid off and uh we we've been discussing about maybe selling two properties and selling two properties would pay off the remaining of the balance that I have on the four other properties that still have a mortgage on them.

You'd be 100% debtree including my primary. Yes, sir. I would do that right now today.

Yes. Yeah. Today. Okay. I I love real estate. I love real estate, Alex, but I like being debtree more.

I agree. And we were trying to hold on to it, not sell properties and just add more to the portfolio just for our children in the future. But, uh,

you'll be able to do that because you won't have any payments. I see. Yeah. the number the how much you can stack cash with no payments

to be able to buy the next one debtree and buy the next one debt free and buy the next one debt free that's what I started doing about 20 years ago

and I've got okay quite a large amount of real estate now huh can I ask one more quick question on the topic of real estate on the property is once their paid off would you recommend I continue to keep the homeowners insurance

yes because I'm in Florida and homeowners insurance is [clears throat] well it's not homeowners it's fire and EC it's not technically Home owners. Homeowners is for owner occupied only. But fire see I you know you got to run the analysis on it. I didn't think about you being in Florida. Gh super expensive. You're right. Just run an analysis on it and go how much of this pain am I willing to absorb? What happened if they all got wiped off the face of the earth by a hurricane? What would you do? I wish you had insurance. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. That's what I'm That's I run a worst case scenario through my emotional uh filters and see if I end up crying or not. This is the Ramsey show.

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a month compared to traditional insurance. So make a change that fits your budget and your values. Check out chmin ministries.org/budget org/budget to learn more. That's chmin ministries.org/budget. Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at8255225. Corey is with us in Washington DC. Hi Corey, how are you?

Hi. I'm well, thanks. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I am trying to figure out how to get out of a stuck situation. I'm living um I went through a divorce which was a really terrible relationship and jumped into my um mother's home um for the time being which has been way too long now. Um and I have in the process I came in to her home with $50,000 in credit card debt and a car loan which I've since paid off. Um I've not

You paid off all the credit card debt and all the all the and the car both? Yes, all that.

Way to go. How long have you been there? I have been here for six years. Oh. So, I've paid that off and I've saved I I and I went back to school um all in that time and got a decent job and now make three times the amount that I was making when I started my job.

Now I make 118. Why are you still there? Um because this market here, I started looking um in 2020 for homes. Um, I'd been outbid several times by like $40,000 at

How old are you? 45. Okay. Why have you not gone and just rented something? So,

you're debtree and you make $120,000 a year. You can rent something. Yeah. The rentals around here for a three-bedroom, I have three kids and myself. For a threebedroom, it's about $3,000 a month. So, at that point, I thought I was just throwing away money. Um, my income has gone up each year pretty substantially. Um, so I keep feeling like I'm chasing the carrot. I get to like a point where I could potentially make it work and then the, you know, the rents go up and the mortgage, the prices on the houses go up and of course the interest rates are up.

So I feel like I can never just get a grasp on something that I can actually move comfort comfortably into. Um, so now I'm trying to figure out, do I just put everything on hold as far as trying to buy a home?

No. Well, the secret to happiness is lower expectations. You're trying to move into a neighborhood in an area that your income does not allow you to do.

Understood? And you probably won't be able to catch that that carrot. And I don't want you being 55 and living with your mother. I don't want your children graduating from high school living with their grandmother.

Yeah. And that's the other thing. I have nothing saved up for them to to go to school.

Yeah. But the the point is that you have you have painted yourself a a world where you have decided that you are trapped by housing prices and rental prices.

Okay. And you're not with with um so I get paid bi-weekly um and I get paid about $2,600. Again, this my my income just went up in January. Um, I was getting paid several hundred less per month last year and the year before. Um, so with that, what can I afford? Because I keep looking at all these other bills. Um,

if I understood you right, you're debtree and you have how much saved? About it's close to 60.

And you make $118,000 a year and you have three children. Mhm. Did I understand all of that right?

Yes. And you did all of that in six years coming out of a bro broken, toxic, horrible marriage. I'm so proud of you.

And you got a degree. You're freaking amazing. Well done. Well done. You've really accomplished a lot here. And um the the the thing I think I'm hearing and I might be wrong, Corey, but I think I'm hearing that um that probably in the marriage and and definitely with mom, the home that you're living in were both nicer than the home that you can afford now and you're having trouble with that.

Um probably. Yeah, I've definitely looked at lowering, you know, some of my living, you know, what I I'm used to. But

yeah, the home that your mom is in now, did you grow up in that home? No. Okay. So, the home you grew up in was not as nice as the home that you're currently staying in?

No. And you're not damaged because of that? Yeah. I I wouldn't I mean, this house is okay. It's not like fantastic or anything like that.

Could you afford to buy it if it was on the market? No. Okay, that's the point. Your childhood home though, you might. And your children will not be damaged if they move into a home that's not something off of the u the the the real estate channel on, you know, being redone by Chip and Joanna. Okay. So, um, I want you to get your toe in the water in some kind of piece of real estate and establish sustainability of your own life. Whether that's an inexpensive rental and you have a little bit too far of a commute or it's not a stellar piece of property that's that lines up with all of your all of your wants, but but does cover your needs. Um, but but I think you've set your um you're you're I think the reason you're chasing the carrot is you set the carrot pretty far out on the stick.

And I'm gonna pull the carrot back in and grab a hold of it and take a bite out of it.

I I think it's probably both and it's it's moved the carrot out and the housing market has gotten tough, especially in DC.

I'm not saying it's not tough, but I'm saying the way she can enter the market making $120,000 a year with a $60,000 down payment is probably not I mean DC is super expensive. you're going to be outside of DC. You're not you're not buying a place. You're not buying a place in DC proper.

You're not buying a place in um LA or San Francisco. You know, that used to be when you made $100,000 a year, you'd made it.

But not anymore, right? And not with housing prices being what they are. And so you're in a market where uh your expectations burst on based on your fabulous progress that you've made. I'm very proud of you, but it may mean that you go somewhere else.

And I Dave, I this is like a a thing I want to be emphatic about. There's going to be things you want to give your kids. Like she even mentioned, I don't even have any college savings. I don't have this. I don't have this. Your kids can share a room. Your kids can put themselves through college. Your kids can do so much. What her kids have that I don't think she has recognized yet is they have a mom

who's a warrior who is in extraordinary. Yes. The greatest gift my parents gave me was not college. They didn't they didn't have the money to pay for college. It wasn't a car. It was it wasn't any of those things. It was I had two parents that always scratched and clawed. And both of them had midlife career changes and I watched them flourish. And lo and behold, this opportunity came up when I had a career and I had the courage to go do something else and I had the work ethic and all the stuff. That's what she's given her kids. And it's not something you can buy. It's something you witness. And so go get a town home if that's all you can afford and two of your kids can share rooms and they're going to be fine cuz they've got an incredible mom who loves them and they're watching you blaze a path.

That's the greatest gift you can give your kids. It just is. All the other stuff's gravy.

The number of people that shared a bedroom with a sibling that ended up in counseling because of that alone is zero.

There's a lot of kids, I'm telling you right now, I just had this conversation this weekend um in Utah with the behavior services team. There's a lot of people in counseling because they have never shared a room. They've never had to negotiate anything other than whatever they want whenever they want it and then they go to college or then they get married and their whole universe explodes because somebody else has a different opinion about something

because somebody said, "Oh, the access of the world does not run through the top of your little head."

Who knew? I I I've talked to every residence hall director on planet Earth that I've ever met and I've always asked them just privately, shared rooms or single rooms. I've never had one say the right thing to do developmentally for a college kid is to share a room. I can't sell it anymore because these kids are coming from their own bedrooms and their own bathrooms and their own Whirlpool tub. So, I have to make these single ones. But if it was if I was the king for a day,

you mean there's not a skylight? Everybody has to to share room. Can we get the sushi delivered to our dorm room? No.

Yes. Kids can share rooms. They can they're so resilient, especially when you have a mom like that. So,

um you've you've given them a gift, Cory. They can change schools. It's It's okay. It's okay.

You've given them a gift by uh stepping out of a horrible situation and then um standing kneede in that manure and flourishing.

Yeah. It's amazing. And and using that as fertilizer and have grown and grown and grown and grown. I'm so proud of you. You're an amazing lady. Um I I think your real estate is just I I think your problem is unrealistic expectations with your numbers. So, that's going to mean you either um that you change probably the neighborhoods you've been looking in, whether it be for buying or for renting. And um it may be a long commute, it may mean a complete move, it may mean a lot of other things. But uh and that's not to say I think that Washington DC real estate's cheap. It's quite the opposite. It's basically crazy. This is the Ramsay Show.

Heat. Heat. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host today. Open phones at 88255225. Daniel's in New York City. Hi, Daniel. How are you?

Hi, Mr. Ramsey. Uh, big fan of the show. Uh, me and my girlfriend, we're both young. We'd like to start dating and move it. Well, sorry. Sorry. We have been dating for four years and we'd like to move in together and potentially well, we'd like to get married, but I was just curious on what your thoughts were.

Uh, the data is not in your favor. Yeah, I'm I'm aware. I've heard you guys read off the statistics before. I'm actually um doing some research for a new marriage project and they actually have the cohabitation data longitudinally just for earned income and something as simple as household income over time is less than those who are married. Not to mention this the statistics the the relationship not making it over time. Um how long have y'all been dating?

Uh four years. Four years. Why not just pull the trigger? What are you waiting on? Um, I would like to do it. Um, my parents are advising against it and they're saying that we should live together for 6 months to a year prior. Um, I would like to do it. It's just that I I'm also heeding their advices.

How old are you? My parents I'm 20 25 26 and a month. Okay. So, if you if you already have your if you're a guy who's going to listen to their parents even if you disagree with them, why are you calling two strangers on a podcast? Uh, I was just curious what your guys's opinions was.

You already knew. Yeah, you already knew what we were going to say. I started rattling off the data and you're like, "Yeah, I already knew that."

Right. Um, we both think we're very like financially uh sound. We've saved up a bunch of money. So, I'm just curious if that changes anything or No.

No. How old were you when you got married? Me? Yeah. 24. Okay. I was 22. Yeah. I've been married 43 years.

I'm I'm 23 and a2. I I I think you can respect your parents and still disagree with them.

I do all the time. I love my parents to death. They're good people. I respect John and I disagree with him sometimes.

Yeah, we disagree all the time. Not really. And I'm usually right. That's That's even harder.

Not really. Yeah. Let Let me tell you this. Are you calling us because you actually want to marry this girl? Yes sir.

Okay. At some point, you're going to have to say, "As for me in my household." Yeah. Your your mom and dad no longer get to tell you what to do when you're a man, my son.

They can only advise you. Right. Um, so my next question would be, and neither do podcasters get to tell you what to do. You still have to do what you want to do.

Yes, sir. Understood. So, we've got about $6,000 saved up. I understand that you guys advise one month of income for uh engagement ring or rings.

Oh, in our area for like New York City and Long Island, it's really expensive for rent. Uh we've traveled to a few cities. Um we we just we're other than like we figure you guys recommend a quarter of your income for living expenses. Can we permit up to like 35% where we are? We're both in the hospitality entry level positions we graduated together with associates degrees.

Okay. Well, that's a completely different set of questions separate from what you called about, right?

Yes, sir. Okay. All right. So, um, yes, one month of your income is the maximum you should spend on a ring. Um, and yes, 1/4th of your take-home pay is the most you need to put into rent, not for household expenses, but into rent because you don't create a sustainable situation. You're short on money, your house poor, when your rent is 35 or 40 or 50% regardless of where you live. So, if your income is going to be going up like doubling in the next year and a half or two years, and you take on a little bit higher rent, then that doesn't kill you.

But if you try to sit there and prosper for four years where your rent is 35% of your take-home, you got a bad formula. It's not You're going to struggle with that one.

Oh, but they're in New York, so all rents going to be free from now on. That they're going to be good.

Yeah. No, too soon. Yeah. Plus, plus or minus the rats. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Um, and I'm not talking about the rodents, but Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. I I I don't know. It's um uh No, Daniel. Um the math still has to math even in New York. And um so yeah, you've got to decide what you guys are going to do. It may be if you're going to be in the hospitality business, if you can't move up quickly enough with your associates degrees into uh sustainable incomes in a market that's that expensive, then you may need to be doing it somewhere else. That's a possibility, too. Lots of people live leave areas they can't afford to live in. That's been since time began, people have done that until they can afford to do it. And so um you know and and New York City being one of the more expensive cities in the world to live in. So literally New York, Tokyo, London, San Francisco, I mean these are this is the list, right? Paris, these are very uber expensive to live in. Not just because they're recognizable major metro areas, but it's just stinking expensive,

period. And so try renting a flat in London. That'll get your attention. Scott's in Montana. Let's go the other direction. What's up, Scott?

Hey guys, uh thanks for taking my call. Um my wife and I, we are almost done with uh Baby Sub 2. Um I'm 49 years old. Um, I was approached today um at work to purchase a long-term care policy. It's a

nursing home care. It says, yeah, yeah, it says if you become chronically ill, lifetime benefit term will pay you%.

You don't need it. That's what I was wondering. I was a little hesitant on that. What's the main

The main deal is long-term care insurance is vital when you're 60 years old and above. the percentage likelihood of you using it prior to 60 is very close to zero.

Okay? So, we don't recommend buying it until you're 60. And if you're 60 and you got $10 million, don't buy it. Just self-insure. Just pay for the nursing home or pay for inhome care or whatever you're going to do. Okay? But if you're, you know, you got 500 grand to your name and you're 60 years old and the nursing home is going to be 300 grand over three years, it's going to crack and scramble the nest egg. Typically, the guy dies before the lady 75% of the time. And so, Papa goes in the nursing home, uses up all the money, and then dies, leaves mama broke.

That's the one 60 years old that needs long-term care insurance. You don't need it at 40.

49. 49. You don't need it till you're 60. I'm 65. I got plenty of money. I didn't buy it.

That's where I was I was a little hesitant. And I have a I have a life insurance policy now, a term life that's done um I guess until I'm Yeah, it's at 75 it ends.

Um I also have insurance through uh through the military. Um Mhm. should I be purchasing any other type of

well life insurance you need if uh about 10 to 12 times your income on you to cover your family if you die. And that's taking care of your wife and kids. When you're 75, the kids hopefully will be grown and gone. They'll be grown. Hopefully, they'll be gone. And uh and so that's that's the game plan. And you'll be out of debt and have some money. And you so you you you're with some financial planning, you outlive the need for life insurance long term. But for right now, yeah, you do need some life insurance.

So many years ago, we came up with this great idea. There were these new things on your phones called an app, an application. So we decided that Ramsay should have an app that would do your budget and we worked and we worked and we worked and we worked on it and we developed really over the last uh decade or so the world's best budgeting app without a doubt. It's called Every Dollar because every dollar has an assignment by you. You assign every one of your dollars a place to go give it a name. Well, what has ended up happening then is that over the last three or four years, we've invested a bazillion dollars and uh in programming and in brilliant digital minds inside this building that do things I can't even spell and um have managed to integrate into it the whole Ramsay plan, the Ramsay way. So, like you guys call in and ask us detailed, nuanced questions about what you do at this baby step or what do I do there,

what do I do there? and and we've actually got almost all of that now answered inside of Every Dollar. So, the allnew Every Dollar, we just relaunched it the other day and it's a complete game changer. You can watch the premiere on your on our YouTube channel and see see it how it works in action. What happens is when you go in, if you've been there before, do it again. If you've never been, go now and get get into the Every Dollar app because what happens in just the first 15 minutes or so, you're going to find thousands of dollars of margin. And then we're going to start showing you how to apply it using the Baby Steps framework and the Ramsy way, so to speak. And the Ramsey way basically is we're going to take you from debt into wealth and generosity.

Change your whole family tree. We want you to get there. And so imagine how much you could find to put towards your money goals. The allnew Every Dollar. It's here. Check it out. Jake is with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi Jake. How are you?

Good, guys. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So me and my wife were 24 um fresh out of college a few years ago. Uh so we decided to uh build a home, our forever home. Um and the cost kind of got out of control. Our parents stepped in. My parents stepped in. Me and my wife have been blessed to have our parents by our side. Um they actually followed your financial piece back in 2000. Uh there's a different story behind that, but they're very uh they've accumulated some wealth over the years. Um they've handed us over a lump sum of money um to help us build this house um and whatever is left over, we will pay back in a mortgage payment to them. Um me and my wife make about 130,000 a year um before taxes um with a commission bonus for myself at the end of the year. So my question is and we we do have a um a good amount of savings from the past years of working about $120,000 in

savings. Um I'm sorry. You have $120,000 in savings. Why the flip did your parents have to give you money?

They have been working so hard their whole life to set their kids up. Um, and so they want to help every single one of their kids out. Um, I'm one of three brothers.

Yeah, but you made it sound like you got in trouble and they bailed you out. Oh, no, no, no, sir. No, no, no.

So, what happened with the house? You got You bought too much house. What's the deal with the house?

Uh, yeah. So, we're building. Um. Oh, you're still building? Yeah, we're still building. We're in the foundation phase right now.

Oh, you just started building? Yes. So, the deal was with them um was we can collaborate with them. They can help out. I mean, we have a really good relationship with our parents. I worked for them actually. Um, and they wanted, this is what they wanted to do for us. And so we kindly accepted it. Um, and any cost after their initial lump sum that they handed over, uh, we would pay back to them in a mortgage. And, and so I guess my question is is me and my wife are still young. We're 24. We're not thinking about kids right now. Um, do we give up a lot of that savings that we have straight back to them at the beginning? Um, or do we have some of that, keep most of it and travel and and have fun in our early 20s?

So, do I borrow money from my parents when I'm newly married to travel? That's in essence what this where this lands when I say it that way. Does it sound as crazy to you as it does to me?

Yeah, a little bit. Okay. Yeah. No, you you you like did grownup stuff and went and bought a house at 24 years old. pay for your stinking house and then start talking about traveling. Do you have a good relationship with your parents?

Very good. The shest ways and the shest way to blow it up is to have money in between you.

Okay. And I know that's a weird hard thing to say at 24, especially when you got two people who are like, "No, it's no big deal. It's no big deal." Just take it from two older guys.

Clear the money between your relationships so that it can stay as good as it is right now.

I think I heard a two-stage deal here. like they gave you a gift of a certain amount and that even wasn't enough and so then they loaned you more. Is that right?

Yes. They loaned us the full amount of whatever it cost for the house we're paying for it in cash

um to build. So they're not taking a loan out from any they're they've been completely debtree since 2008.

I know. But you now owe them Yeah. a mortgage payment. Okay. So that part where they went through Financial Peace University, they flunked the class cuz we tell you not to do that ever. Don't ever loan your children money.

Oh my god. Because it puts a wedge between the relationship. Yeah. The borrower is slave to the lender. Now you have to eat dinner. Hey, eat Thanksgiving dinner with your master.

Yeah. Okay. That's going to be painful for your wife. Not going to bother you much because it's your parents, but it's going to be painful for your wife.

Understood. So, how much money do you owe your parents that you have to pay the mortgage on?

Um, [snorts] probably going to be around 200 to 250,000. Okay. And how much of a gift did they give you?

Um, about 50% of the total cost to build. So, about 200 to 250,000. So, you're 24 years old, you make 130, and you got a $450,000 house.

Uh, yes. Dang, Gina. Okay. It's a lot of house, dude. It's a lot of house. All right. Um, well, for sure the answer to your question is no, you don't need to go on vacation. Yes, you need to 100 do the take the 130,000, but I'm even going to go a step further. I'm going to put the 130,000 with your mom and dad to limit the size of the mortgage. And then I'm going to go get a commercial mortgage, not from your parents,

okay? Because I don't want this mortgage. I don't want you paying payments to your parents for any amount of money, for any amount of interest. Um, I don't think you're going to do that because I think you guys have worked out this detailed thing in all of your heads that this all works out to the point that you're ready to go to Europe instead of paying back. Um, here here's here's what what I would say. I can see myself working really hard so I can I can bulldoze a path for my son and his new wife. I get that. But if my son was to hand me a check for 130 grand and say, "Dad, I've got this money saved up. This is the part of the mortgage and then I want you to see here. I'm giving you the rest of it. I took out a commercial loan because I want to just stay your son. I don't want to stay one of your like I don't I don't want you to be my banker." I would be so proud. And in a way, you're kind of not

showing him up, but you're kind of saying, "I'm taking this by I'm taking the reigns here." It would show a level of wisdom and maturity. Uh, I'm trying to give him as much grace as I can, Dad. Because the arrangement he's put you in is madness. It It just ends in somebody wanting you to do something for Christmas and your wife doesn't want to. And it's like, well, after all we've It just It's just a recipe for disaster. But man, if you went and did what Dave just said, go get a commercial loan for the rest of it. And by the way, that's a tiny mortgage.

It's a 100 $120,000 mortgage. It's a tiny tiny tiny mortgage. Just go do that, man. You'll have that paid off in no time with as much money as y'all make.

Um, if you don't go on trips. Yeah, if you don't go to Europe, and by the way, Europe, Dave, I trips are more fun when I when I'm older now. I don't know why. They just are.

Well, they're more fun because they don't follow you home. Um, but and in essence, that's what this ends up being. So, I don't have to increase the amount we borrow from mom and dad

by the amount that we spend on the trips. And so, it's like borrowing on the trip. Borrowing from mom and dad to go on a trip. And obviously, that would be ludicrous. So, moms and dads, those of you that graduated from Financial Peace University with a better grade than that mom and dad got, um, uh, which was an F, um, here's the rule, okay? If you want to give your children some money and they pay cash for a house and, uh, part of the bargain is they never borrow money again because you want your family tree to be completely changed, great.

Never make your child, your grown child, your slave. You change your relationship with your daughter-in-law, your son-in-law. You change the relationship in how you interact with each other. It's just you're adding layers to it that you were, but they're very real. And no one is the exception. Even a nice master is a master.

Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsay Solutions on the debtree stage. Dimma and Rhonda are with us. Hey guys, how are you?

Hey Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. Where do you two live? We live in Durham, North Carolina.

Oh, I love Durham. Great town. Welcome to Nashville and good to have you guys. How much debt have you two paid off?

Um, we've paid off $266,192. Woo. How long did this take? Um, oh my god. Uh, four years and 8 months.

Golly. All right. And your range of income during that time? Uh, our starting salary was 138,000 and our ending salary was 284,500.

Look at you two. Woo. What do you all do? What do you do for a living? Oh, well, I'm actually in compensation. I work for a medical tech company. So, um I'm a compensation in the compensation role.

Okay. I don't even know what that means. That must pay really well. Hey, I think that's why I get paid the big bucks

for real. Um I'm a licensed clinical mental health counselor and you ain't making $280,000, I tell you that.

Not at all. I'm also a professor as well. Okay, there you go. Very good. Good for you guys.

That's awesome, guys. Way to go. So, what kind of debt was the 266? Yeah. So, it was a uh car loan, uh credit card loan,

and Deeus grad school. Student loans. I'm telling you right now. I know that. Absolutely. Student loans.

Yes. So, my um my um student loans were 150,000 and Rhonda's were 100,000. About 100. Yeah.

Yeah. That's um undergraduate, graduate, and doctorate. And Yeah. And so for me, I went out of state, Dave, and a private institution.

Yeah. And then I went on and got a masters after that. So, talk about like ping it on.

Yeah. Ping it on. Okay. So, how long have you two been married? Oh, this year c we're celebrating 10 years.

So, halfway through, five years ago, yeah, something happened. What happened? What What set you off on this stuff?

He decided to go get that uh last degree. And we were already like, if you want to think about it, we were like 800 and something in student loans, just me, with Dimma's student loans being in forbearance. And we're like, what are we going to do when your loans come out and we have to start paying? Like mind you, we had just had a little one in 2017 and Dimma started school and we're like we cannot take on my loans daycare and then when Dimma get like his student loans we were scared like what's that going to look like?

Yeah. It just kept stacking up till it got scary. Yeah. It got really scary. Then what happened? What'd you do?

I mean we we're graduates of the Financial Peace Institute University. So I think we were just kind of taking it baby steps baby steps. But when we realize what we're going to be under with all the student we were just like we've got to use the principles and really get serious and intentional.

Time to get hardcore. Yeah, absolutely. All right. So, you lean in. Yeah. And uh what was the first thing you did and what was the radical stuff you did?

Oh, we we started doing the monthly monthly meetings talking about our finances. Um

hard conversations. Hard conversations. I mean, credit cards, of course, we we put them in a jar in the kitchen and we're like paying with cash and and if it wasn't on our our monthly, you know, things that we had talked about, then we weren't doing it. Um, what would you say?

Who's the spender? I see it, man. I was hoping you would ask, Dave, well, your shoes are shot from here. Your watch is blinding me.

Let me say this. He um for his birthday, he um was like, "Oh, let's go. Let's let's get this car. Let's let's test drive it." on his birthday, we ended up walking away with a car. So, I would say Dave, after we got intentional, that car we sold it

and we were upside down. So, we're like, but we can't. And we made sure that anything else we had, we were paying cash for as far as cars.

And that was really the testament that he was able to say, "Hey, I love the car, but I want us to get us out of debt." And sold the car.

Yeah. Being debtree was more more important. Absolutely. So, y'all made a incredible combined salary together. Both of y'all are rolling up to places where people are seeing y'all drive up and y'all ain't driving quarter million dollar cars.

No, I you know we still own I have a 2010 Mazda. Yes. Runs great. It runs great mysterious compensation jobs.

Yes, absolutely. You know, we're like, "Hey, we can't get rid of this." It's like, you know, we thinking about gas prices and things like that, but it's making us more intentional and saying like, now that we've paid off debt, what else can we do?

Definitely humbling ourselves and um having faith in the process um was a struggle, but you know, I'd definitely say be persistent and resilient.

Absolutely. Cuz you know what, Dave, like we're all taught to like pay off debt, but then it's like what do you do after you pay off debt? And so we're loving these conversations because we're just been so used to paying off our student loans and paying off

four years. I mean that's a habit pattern right there, right? Right. Four years of doing nothing.

Yeah. Basically, but you know what? One of our happy experiences when we challenged ourselves to say, "What are we going to do?" And I remember our birthday, we had $100 and so what are we going to do with that?

We went and we did a day trip to the beach and that's been the most memorable trip. And it was like we packed sandwiches, we we everything was free and we're like, "Wow." And I'm like I'm still talking about that birthday.

So it it's like be humble and you'll be surprised. I think even Dimma made me a birthday cake. So

it was boxed but you know you know it was it was good and it was humbling to us.

There you go. And Dimma can I tell you being a professor being a mental health practitioner

yes I've always wondered um if you want to do this this scientific study um I'll put it on the air for you.

I always wondered if you're somebody in the helping profession if you're a professor how much do you have to curb what the research says? How much do you have to curb what you actually believe is the right thing to say?

Because you're not really supposed to say that. And I owe somebody money. Yeah.

And now the students that you're going to be teaching, they're going to get an unfiltered view cuz nobody nobody you don't you know nobody's telling you what to do anymore. No knife over your head.

And you're going to be able to sit there and tell these these clients of yours. Here's the truth.

Cuz I don't know anybody anything, man. I can I can speak from here now. Does that Does that make sense?

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that was one of the motivators in wanting to be debtree just the the freedom if you will like like you mentioned Dr. John like that freedom that you have um to kind of um you you have that discretionary income if you will. Um it's we're still working through the baby steps but you have more freedom and there's no there's no one um there's no loans or things of that nature that you have to pay.

Awesome. Yeah, man. I'm proud of you guys. Well done. We're proud of you. Excellent. Way to go, heroes.

Thank you. How does it feel? Oh, it I mean Dr. Donnie said it. It it just to not owe anybody anything. Like we're like what can we do now? It's it's really challenging us to say what do we want to do with our careers and like how do we give back? It's like it's making you just want to just pour out all of that knowledge and and so we're we're just like just ready and fired up about it.

It's refreshing. Like our budget meetings are it's a different it's a different vibe.

Oh yeah. I can tell you smiling. Yes. And we can't thank you to thank you too in the whole Damy uh Ramsay crew. Yeah. Thank you all.

Way to go y'all. We're proud of you. This is one of the rare couples that they both married well.

Y'all both did all right. Thank you. Me and we we won out in our marriages, but y'all both did real well. That's awesome.

Thank you. Appreciate it. That's great. Very well done, you two. Very well done. All right. It's Dimma and Rhonda from Durham, North Carolina. $266,000 paid off in four years and 8 months, making 138 to 284. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. 3 2 1 We're debtree.

Yeah. [screaming] Let's go. I love it. Well done. Very well done. Yeah, I guess um the the number of things you can do when you have that liberty is changed dramatically. But it's particularly I never thought of it in a university setting. That's very interesting that you don't have this uh 266 breathing down your neck. So you can just kind of go, yeah, here's the truth.

Well, and and and you you sit at the table and this is what this is how we're going to teach this or this is how we're saying this or if you have this belief, you're stupid. And if you owe a whole bunch of money, you kind of got to put your head down and go to the next thing.

Got to bite your tongue. Um, and so now Deema's been unleashed. It's going to be fun to see it happen, man.

Way to go, heroes. This is the Ramsay Show. Heat. Heat. Our scripture today, 2 Corinthians 1:4, he comforts us all in our troubles so we can comfort others. When we when they are troubled, we will be able to give them the same comfort God has given us. Jordan Peterson says, "Face the demands of life voluntarily. Respond to a challenge instead of bracing for catastrophe." Amberly is with us in Concord, New Hampshire. Hey, Amberly. How are you?

I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? [snorts] Well, I [clears throat] my husband and I have made a series of um really bad financial mistakes and um we were just wondering if we should sell our house this year or next year.

What kind of mistakes? Well, we we're house poor. Um we bought a duplex that um you know, we're it's overwhelming. We have to where we pay about three grand a month and uh we only make about 60 grand gross.

So, what why would you wait a year? You're drowning. I know we are. What is it you're waiting on?

Um, well, I I I'm the main person uh who does the budget and I was I was just I for some reason it seems like we make we we do somewhat make a little bit more money if by staying here, but I feel like it's wrong. Like I feel like it would be better if we can move.

I'm confused. It feels like you make more money. Math is not a feeling. Do you make more money or not? [snorts]

Well, we we make 60 grow 60 grand gross and then um we also get 2500 a month from the other side. And so [clears throat] it I don't know. I I know we probably should and we're we're

Do you not like being a landlord, Amberly? No. Okay. I don't. Oh, that's solid. Yeah. Be honest about the problem. This I can hear it says this thing's a brick around your neck.

Yeah. Your sanity is not worth it. It is. Yeah. Yeah. Stupid house. Yeah, it is. And we found out that our our tenant has been running the water um 24/7. And so, sorry, I'm just It's a little overwhelming being on the air. Sorry. Um It's

okay. You're good. We've never lost a patient. You're okay. Yeah. And um I I want to and we're in we're in this market where I know that we could technically, you know, this house would appreciate, but

doesn't matter. I do want [clears throat] to get It doesn't matter. It's it's not fun.

No. Everything in this conversation says you're not having fun. No. This house has not been a blessing. It's been a curse.

Yeah. And Tik Tok told you that the way to wealth is to buy a duplex, rent the other side, they'll pay your mortgage, and you're going to

And now it's not fun. Now it's not fun. You found out Tik Tok was wrong. Oh, there's a shock.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, should we put it on the market like next month or I mean

by Friday? Yeah. Friday. Friday. Friday sounds good. Okay. I'm not kidding. Okay.

I'm not kidding. If I have something I own that I hate as bad as you hate this,

even if I made a mistake and I'm ashamed to admit the mistake, I'm still going to admit the mistake. I want to kill it as soon as I can kill it. I want it I want it in my rearview mirror as a distant memory of dumb things I've done. Otherwise, every time you drive up the driveway, you're going, I don't feel really good about me.

Yeah. And you can't be the wife you want to be. You can't be the mom you want to be. You can't be the employee you want to be. It affects every every square of your life. You're not you're not having fun. We can hear it. And it's not just you're scared to be on the air. It's your whole situation, right?

Yeah. I mean, if you had a house payment you could afford, you could breathe again. You're having trouble getting a full lung full of air right now.

Yeah. It's overwhelming. I'm scared. Yeah. I can We can hear it. And And it it's not being mean to you. I've been exactly where you are. That's how I can identify it. I smell it. I know what it feels like. And um so the thing is that that uh the faster you act on this, the quicker you're going to get peace.

Yeah. And peace is really our goal here. You got plenty of time to buy a different house. Plenty of time to make different real estate decisions, sell this thing, and go rent an apartment or something for 6 months and breathe a little bit, and then slow down and make a better real estate decision the next time you move into real estate. You can do this.

Okay? So, go to ramseysolutions.com and click on uh real estate ELPs for Ramsey trusted real estate agents, people we trust that we have vetted, and they'll help you get the thing on the market and help you get it sold ASAP. That's what I would do if I were in your shoes. I like real estate, but I hate real estate. Isn't that interesting? Because I see what it does to people when you do it wrong, including me. It's It leaves a mark. It's not fun. Alejandro is with us in Miami. What's up Alejandro?

Oh, excuse me. Sorry, I just drank water. No trouble. Hello. Um, yes. My question is, is it worth it to go to college? Now, the reason why I'm asking that is because I have u, you know, my brother, he's basically studying in US and he's been going to college for basically eight years now because he's getting his doctors now. He's a, you know, straight A student and everything. And um my my worrisome is that his debt is five digits. So no. Yeah, it's five digits basically. So he's going from like let's say from 9,000 to 60,000 and like the amount of debt that he's getting is ridiculous right?

And are we asking about you or him? I was um this is more for for him than it is for myself. Well, he's already made his decision,

right? Right. But I what I wanted to know is that like from what I see in the market overall, I see employers basically asking more than what they could give off as in like a story that he was telling me is that, oh, hey, there's a position that they like his degree, but they're only offering like 70,000 instead of the range that the college promised them. And that's kind of like, you know, kind of

what is what is his degree going to be in to continue the degree? Sports medicine.

Okay. Right. And so he's going to end up how much in debt to do sports medicine?

60 60,000. Okay. And this is a four-year degree. Um this is uh it's it's becoming eight. He did four then he got he got his masters like

Oh, so he's getting a PhD in sports medicine. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's not necessary,

okay, in that field. So, the answer but but the problem is you cannot extrapolate that to is it okay to go to college

because yes, it's okay to go to college. College is worth the expense if you pay cash and study something that's actually usable in the marketplace. The problem was your brother overde it. He got two more degrees than he needed to function in that in that space

or at least one more that he could afford. And if he wants to move up, then he gets his master's degree.

Do not need a PhD in sports medicine to function in the sports medicine space. Yeah. Unless, oh, maybe if if you're going to go work for an NFL team or something, they may want you to have a doctor by your name. But who knows? I don't I don't even know the particulars of that. But the college is going to give you a range. And when they give you a salary range, those things are skewed by if they're taking numbers from San Francisco and New York to Nebraska, it's all over the place. And so

don't blame the college. He's got to do his own research and say, "What does it pay in the area that I want to live?" And

yeah, I wouldn't go to school eight years for a $70,000 job. I agree. I agree with you, Alejandra. That's not worth it.

Absolutely not. And uh you can get lots of $70,000 jobs for four-year degrees and lots of $100,000 jobs going to trade school and being a welder. So, if you're just looking at return on investment, the trades are awesome. There's a gap right now in the marketplace and they get paid beautifully. But to say college is completely never worth it is an incorrect not a factual statement either. That's not a factual statement. Getting a degree in stupidity, left-handed puppetry, or German PA history, and then thinking you're going to end up with being anything but a barista is ridiculous. And so that's dumb. But you can't take somebody doing something stupid like that and saying all higher ed is bad. That's just not true.

No. The data s my my kids are going to go to college. Yeah. Mine too. Mine did. Yeah. There you go. That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

Yeah.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "You Can’t Build Wealth While Carrying Other People's Problems | January 1, 2026"?

Dave Ramsey (Host), Dr. John Delony (Host), George Kamel (Host), Cody (Guest), Anne (Guest), Judy (Guest), Unknown (24-year-old home builder caller) (Guest), Dimma (Guest).

What is "You Can’t Build Wealth While Carrying Other People's Problems | January 1, 2026" about?

The discussion focuses on the importance of establishing a solid financial plan to alleviate money stress and achieve wealth, emphasizing that individuals cannot attain financial success while burdened by the financial problems of others. It addresses a specific case where a young couple grapples with their in-laws' financial difficulties and the implications of assisting underage siblings…

What is mentioned in this The Ramsey Show episode?

45 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including TSP (Thrift Savings Plan), budget, John Deloney, The Ramsey Show, Baby Steps, NetSuite. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "You Can’t Build Wealth While Carrying Other People's Problems | January 1, 2026"?

The episode runs 2 h 7 min; the transcript is about 23,067 words in 477 timestamped sections.

More from The Ramsey Show

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 24, 2026.