Transcript

The Most Unbelievable Battle In All History | Fall of the Incas EP 2

From The Rest Is History · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 60 min · 11,140 words · 127 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "The Most Unbelievable Battle In All History | Fall of the Incas EP 2", an episode of The Rest Is History published February 19, 2026 (60 min, about 11,140 words). It mentions 31 people, works and ideas, including Atawpa, Cayamaka, Francisco Pizarro, Inca Empire, civil war.

What this episode is about

Spanish conquistadors, led by Francisco Pizarro, exploit a fracturing Inca empire amid civil war and a smallpox outbreak to seek wealth and power, risking a staggering clash between a tiny force of 168 Spaniards and a vast Incan realm of millions. The episode covers the strategic leverage of Inca internal division, disease, and rapid conquest tactics in the lead-up to a pivotal encounter.

Key takeaways

  • Pizarro invades a 12-million-strong empire with under 200 men, exploiting fragmentation like a historical chess gambit.
  • Legal fiction meets brutal reality: the 'Requirement' justified conquest, turning faith into a legal weapon.
  • Empire-building by town founding: Cortez-style municipalism creates a legal foothold amid impending violence.
  • Collaborators, not conquerors alone: opportunistic alliances foreshadow how internal divisions enable external conquest.
  • Roads, not guns: Inca infrastructure paradoxically facilitates Spanish entry, highlighting logistics over brute force.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: Peru, Spanish Empire, Charles V, Kusco
  2. – 10:00: Inca Empire, Peru, Gary Lockhart, The Men of Kayamaka
  3. – 15:00: Sinchara, Cayamaka, civil war, Kusco
  4. – 20:00: civil war, Atawpa, Alberto Cortez, Smallpox
  5. – 25:00: Cayamaka, civil war, Diego de Estete, Diego de Truillo
  6. – 30:00: Atawpa, civil war
  7. – 35:00: Atawpa, Alberto Cortez, Hua Kapak, Pachakouti
  8. – 40:00: Cayamaka, Francisco Pizarro, Charles V, Alberto Cortez
  9. – 45:00: Atawpa
  10. – 50:00: Alberto Cortez, Valverde, Atawpa, Francisco Pizarro
  11. – 55:00: Atawpa, Cayamaka, Inca Empire, The Conquest of the Incas
  12. – 59:50: Atawpa, The Conquest of the Incas

Notable quotes from "The Most Unbelievable Battle In All History | Fall of the Incas EP 2"

  • So, let's just remind listeners where we got to. So the year 1532, the veteran concistador Francisco Pizarro has landed in Peru with around 200 men looking for adventure, for…
    about Peru · at
  • Civil war between two claimments to the throne. Scar the older brother who is in based in Kusco and Ataalpa the younger who is formerly his viceroy in Kito in Ecuador. So a…
    about Atawpa · at
  • Exactly. But Pizarro wants to make sure that his governorship that he has been awarded by the Spanish king is on firm foundations. So the first thing he does is to establish a new town. This is from his cousin Cortez's Mexican playbook.
    about Spanish Empire · at
  • Explains to them the history of the world. Yeah. the story of Jesus and the fact that Charles V, the king of Spain, has been licensed by the pope to export Christianity to the Americas. When you read them this, they are legally bound.
    about Charles V · at
  • And to get there they have to go pass through Atawalpa's army to all the tents and Aete in his account says you know we were absolutely terrified advancing through these ranks and ranks of soldiers who are just staring at us in silence.
    about Diego de Estete · at
  • I'll come into Cayamaka to meet your leader. But there's one more moment before they leave. Atwell clearly fascinated by the horses. So Anando doto dressards champion of Spain…
    about Ernando Dotto · at
  • And Pizarro encourages his men, says, Come on, we've got this. We can do this. And he, one of the chronicles says, that night he went around and he said, every man.
    about Francisco Pizarro · at
  • Without mercy, cutting them down. The whole thing takes 2 hours. And it is a complete and utter walkover. The Wikipedia entry calls it the battle of Cayamaka.
    about Cayamaka · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Atawpa — Person · Core topic (principal historical actor) · 9 mentions · first at
    Inca ruler (or claimant) whose decisions during the civil war and encounter at Cajamarca culminate in his capture, a turning point in the conquest narrative.
  • Francisco Pizarro — Person · Core topic (principal historical actor) · 3 mentions · first at
    Leads the Spanish expedition into Peru and orchestrates the ambush at Cajamarca, including the plan to seize Atahualpa.
  • Charles V — Person · Referenced sovereign (legal authority) · 3 mentions · first at
    Appears as the monarch whose authority is invoked to justify conquest and vassalage, central to the 'Requirement' speech.
  • Alberto Cortez — Person · Referenced comparator (model for Pizarro) · 7 mentions · first at
    Used as the template for conquest strategy (founding towns, decapitation/capture of ruler) that Pizarro hopes to emulate.
    Awarded by the Spanish king is on firm foundations. So the first thing he does is to establish a new town. This is from his cousin Cortez's Mexican playbook.
  • Ernando Dotto — Person · Referenced participant (Spanish officer) · 2 mentions · first at
    Presented as Pizarro's lieutenant and a key cavalry figure; leads scouting and participates in the tense pre-ambush meeting with Atahualpa.
  • Diego de Estete — Person · Referenced eyewitness source · 1 mention · first at
    Named as a participant who later wrote an eyewitness account; his details are used to narrate the meeting and the massacre/capture.
  • Apoo — Person · Referenced participant (Inca spy) · 10 mentions
    Introduced as a spy sent by Atahualpa; his report characterizes the Spaniards as rogues and highlights interest in Spanish specialists (blacksmith, horse tamer, barber).
  • Sinchara — Person · Referenced participant (Inca envoy/officer) · 3 mentions · first at
    Sent by Atahualpa to investigate the Spanish; his interactions with the Spaniards illustrate early misunderstandings and abuses.
    It's always about beards, isn't it, in history. Anyway, Atwell is intrigued by all this and he sends one of his senior officers called Sinchara to investigate. Confusingly…
  • Gary Lockhart — Person · Referenced historian (secondary source) · 1 mention · first at
    Credited for archival 'detective work' reconstructing who the 168 Spaniards were, grounding the narrative in prosopography.
    Horsemen, 106 infantry, and there's a brilliant book of historical detective work called the men of Kayamaka by James Lockhart, American historian in about 1970 where he really dug into where they're all from and what they all did.
  • Valverde — Person · Referenced participant (cleric with expedition) · 4 mentions · first at
    Named among the Dominicans accompanying the Spaniards; represents the religious dimension of conquest.
    Could help with the interpreting. And the other is the Dominican frier Vicente de Valverde. Great to have a Valverde back on the show. And he is with one of these interpreters, either Martineo or Filipio.
  • Kiskis — Person · Referenced military commander · 1 mention · first at
    Identified as Atahualpa's commander leading the final assault on Cusco, showing the civil war remains Atahualpa's priority.
    The civil war. So, he's waiting for news from the south where his commander, who has the excellent name of Kiskis, is leading the final assault on Kusco. So when he gets news…
  • Diego de Truillo — Person · Referenced eyewitness source · 1 mention · first at
    Listed as an eyewitness writer whose account is compared with Miguel de Estete's, illustrating conflicting conquistador narratives.
    There's a guy called Miguel de Estete and there's a guy called Diego de Truillo and they both wrote long eyewitness accounts of the meeting which of course in traditional…
  • Ernando Gonzalo Aruan — Person · Referenced participant (Pizarro's brother, as stated) · 1 mention · first at
    Named among Pizarro's close companions/brothers in the expedition, indicating the family-based command structure.
    Ecuador. So a very Game of Thrones style struggle for the throne. And now Pizarro and his men. So that is his brothers Ernando Gonzalo Aruan and his left tenant Ernando Dotto.…
  • Pachakouti — Person · Referenced Inca figure (prophecy/cosmology claim) · 1 mention · first at
    Invoked in reported speech as a 'god king' whose messengers the Spaniards are claimed to be, illustrating contested narratives about Inca interpretations.
    I know you are the sons of Vircha. You are messengers from our god king Pachakouti. Your coming was foretold by my father, Hua Kapak. So I gave orders that nobody was to stop or harm you. But you think this is fabricated by a.
  • Hua Kapak — Person · Referenced Inca figure (ancestral authority) · 1 mention · first at
    Cited as Atahualpa's father who allegedly foretold the Spaniards' coming, part of the debated 'prophecy' motif.
    I know you are the sons of Vircha. You are messengers from our god king Pachakouti. Your coming was foretold by my father, Hua Kapak. So I gave orders that nobody was to stop…

Books & papers

  • The Conquest of the Incas — Book · Referenced book (secondary source) · 2 mentions · first at
    Cited as a key modern narrative source (John Hemming) for interpreting casualty estimates and the broader conquest story.
    Exactly. Yeah. John Heming in his brilliant book, The Conquest of the Incas, said, that how do you know how many people died? Somewhere between two and 8,000. Even if you take.
  • The Men of Kayamaka — Book · Referenced book (secondary source) · 1 mention · first at
    Used to substantiate who the 168 Spaniards were (origins, occupations), adding social detail to the expedition.
    Work called the men of Kayamaka by James Lockhart, American historian in about 1970 where he really dug into where they're all from and what they all did.

Concepts & topics

  • Inca Empire — Concept · Core topic (polity being conquered) · 3 mentions · first at
    The episode frames the conquest as a small Spanish force exploiting disease and civil war to decapitate a vast imperial state.
    One of the largest empires in the world at this point. From their heartland in Kusco, the Incas ruled about 12 million people all the way from Colombia and Ecuador in the north to Chile in the.
  • civil war — Concept · Core topic (enabling condition) · 7 mentions · first at
    The Inca succession conflict between brothers is repeatedly described as the key vulnerability Pizarro exploits.
    Tumb. And he has discovered that the empire is in chaos. There's been ravaged by smallpox and by this fratricidal civil war between two claimments to the throne. Scar the older…
  • Spanish Empire — Concept · Core topic (imperial framework) · 2 mentions · first at
    Provides the legal-religious justification (Charles V, papal license, Requirement) and the repertoire of conquest tactics (terror, decapitation).
  • The Requirement — Concept · Core explanatory concept (legal doctrine) · 2 mentions · first at
    Explained as the Spanish legal-religious formula read to indigenous peoples to demand submission and justify violence if refused.
    So, as we will discover under the regulations from I think 1513, the council of Castile, you read them this thing called the requirement, which explains to them the history of…
  • The Spanish Repertoire — Concept · Core explanatory concept (tactics) · 2 mentions · first at
    Used to describe recurring Spanish methods—founding towns for legal cover and using 'theatrical terror' and surprise violence.
    I think ideally they'll reach an accommodation, but violence is always part of the Spanish repertoire. And everywhere the Spanish have been, so in the Caribbean, in every island, in Miso America, in Central America, everywhere.
  • Smallpox — Concept · Referenced causal factor · 2 mentions · first at
    Cited as a major destabilizing force ravaging the Inca realm, contributing to chaos alongside civil war.
    Discovery. He's landed at a place called Tumb. And he has discovered that the empire is in chaos. There's been ravaged by smallpox and by this fratricidal civil war between two…

Places & events

  • Cayamaka — Place · Core setting (battle/ambush site) · 6 mentions · first at
    Primary location where the Spanish lure Atahualpa into the central square and execute the surprise attack commonly labeled the 'Battle of Cajamarca'.
  • Peru — Place · Core setting (region under conquest) · 3 mentions · first at
    The expedition lands and advances through Peru; described as the theater in which Spanish tactics meet Inca civil-war instability.
  • Kusco — Place · Referenced strategic location (Inca capital) · 3 mentions · first at
    Identified as the Inca heartland/capital and the civil-war objective; Kiskis advances on it as Atahualpa camps near Cajamarca.
    By smallpox and by this fratricidal civil war between two claimments to the throne. Scar the older brother who is in based in Kusco and Ataalpa the younger who is formerly his…
  • Ecuador — Place · Referenced extent of empire / civil-war base · 2 mentions · first at
    Named as the northern region (Quito) where Atahualpa is based as viceroy/claimant.
    At this point. From their heartland in Kusco, the Incas ruled about 12 million people all the way from Colombia and Ecuador in the north to Chile in the south. Pizarro has made…
  • Colombia — Place · Referenced extent of empire · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned to illustrate the geographic scale of Inca rule from the north down to Chile.
    At this point. From their heartland in Kusco, the Incas ruled about 12 million people all the way from Colombia and Ecuador in the north to Chile in the south. Pizarro has made…
  • Chile — Place · Referenced extent of empire · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as the southern reach of the Inca Empire to emphasize its vast scale.
    Kusco, the Incas ruled about 12 million people all the way from Colombia and Ecuador in the north to Chile in the south. Pizarro has made a stunning discovery. He's landed at a…

Media & podcasts

  • The Kingdom of Heaven — Media · Pop-culture analogy · 1 mention · first at
    Referenced to analogize Pizarro's 'every man a knight' encouragement to a scene in the film.
    Says, that night he went around and he said, every man a knight. Every man is a knight. It's very like the kingdom of heaven, if you've seen that film, the Orlando Bloom…

Sponsors

  • Claude by Anthropic — Organization · Sponsor · 1 mention · first at
    Appears in the mid-episode ad read promoting Claude as a tool for reasoning through conflicting sources.
    This episode is brought to you by Claude by Anthropic. Now, history lives in the contradictions. Yeah, I've always been fascinated by the great mysteries of history, like what happened to the Maya.

Full transcript with timestamps

Today on the rest is history. And I know that we say this all the time, one of the most astonishing stories in the whole of history, but this really is. This is the story of how 168 Spaniards rode up to meet with the emperor of a mighty empire, maybe 12 million people. He has a vast army numbering in the tens of thousands. How on earth can the Spaniards hope to avoid being completely wiped out? There is only one way to find out, and that is to listen to this truly astonishing story.

So, let's just remind listeners where we got to. So the year 1532, the veteran concistador Francisco Pizarro has landed in Peru with around 200 men looking for adventure, for glory, and for gold. And he is convinced that somewhere south along the Pacific coast is this rich and sophisticated kingdom. And of course he is right. This kingdom is Tawantin Soyo, the land of the four quarters, or as we would call it, the empire of the Incas. One of the largest empires in the world at this point. From their heartland in Kusco, the Incas ruled about 12 million people all the way from Colombia and Ecuador in the north to Chile in the south. Pizarro has made a stunning discovery. He's landed at a place called Tumb. And he has discovered that the empire is in chaos. There's been ravaged by smallpox and by this fratricidal civil war between two claimments to the throne. Scar the older brother who is in

based in Kusco and Ataalpa the younger who is formerly his viceroy in Kito in Ecuador. So a very Game of Thrones style struggle for the throne. And now Pizarro and his men. So that is his brothers Ernando Gonzalo Aruan and his left tenant Ernando Dotto. Great horsemen, posh but sinister and short. They can see their opening. If they can profit from the Inca's divisions, then maybe they can emulate Pizaro's cousin, Ernan Cortez, the conqueror of the Aztecs. So, let's pick up the story from where we left off. It is mid-inter, which means it's what we would call summer in uh in Peru. Pizarro is still in the far northwestern corner. He is about 900 miles north of modernday Lemur. So that is about 1,300 miles north of Kusco, the Inca capital.

Is there a road that goes straight there though? No, a series of roads. The Incas have built this incredible road network, so it's actually not as far as it might sound.

Well, it's still far, but it's Yeah, but it's, you know, you don't have to hack your way through jungles or anything to

No, there's not too much hacking, but there's a lot of crossing of rope bridges, and everyone knows that's dangerous.

Fatigenous ascents and descents and stuff like that. Llama action. Exactly. But Pizarro wants to make sure that his governorship that he has been awarded by the Spanish king is on firm foundations. So the first thing he does is to establish a new town. This is from his cousin Cortez's Mexican playbook. This is what Cortez had done. You establish a town. You establish a municipal government and that gives you the legal foundation. That means you can't be challenged for governorship of this country. Can I ask you Dominic?

Yeah. What has Charles V licensed Pizarro to do? Is the notion Yeah. that Pizarro will turn up, found a city,

and that the the incor will be so peaceable that they'll just go that's great. And if they don't, is there a license to kind of attack them with horses and gunpowder and stuff?

So, as we will discover under the um the regulations from I think 1513, the council of Castile, you read them this thing called the requirement, which explains to them the history of the world. Yeah. the story of Jesus and the fact that Charles V, the king of Spain, has been licensed by the pope to export Christianity to the Americas. When you read them this, uh, they are legally bound to submit to Vasselage and if they don't, you can kill them.

So, that essentially is the legal framework. Yes, exactly. But is Bizarro expecting that he's going to have to fight?

Yeah, I'm sure he is. or is he hoping that perhaps they could arrive at a mutually acceptable accommodation?

I think ideally they'll reach an accommodation, but violence is always part of the Spanish repertoire. And everywhere the Spanish have been, so in the Caribbean, in every island, in Miso America, in Central America, everywhere they have been, theatrical terror has been an important part of their armory. I just wonder though because it is very punchy even by the stands of the Spanish. Yeah. To invade an empire consisting of 12 million people with under 200 people.

Yeah, it is. I mean, some people might say you might say bonkers if it were not for the fact that we all know that they do it.

I know he's thinking he's going to get reinforcements that they're going to arrive at any moment.

Are the Spanish going to think of Atala as a user? So, does that invalidate him as someone with whom they can negotiate?

No, I don't think so straight away. But I think the further they get, the more they realize the divisions of the civil wars are a wonderful, wonderful opportunity for them. Initially, they think of Atala as a potential collaborator. You know, that's what they want really. They want, that's what all empires want. They don't want to fight unnecessarily. They may have to, but ideally, everyone will collaborate with them. And in fact, the Spanish will find plenty of people who collaborate with them in the Inca Empire, as they did with the Aztecs.

It's kind of opportunistic militarism then is basically their mood. Yeah, I think that's the right that's the right way of putting it. So Pizarro moves out on the 24th of September uh with his men. He's left some men behind to found this new town, Sam Miguel de Tangar. And what that means is that he now has what is it? 167 men plus him. So 61 horsemen, 106 infantry, and there's a brilliant book of historical detective work called the men of Kayamaka by James Lockhart, American historian in about 1970 where he really dug into where they're all from and what they all did.

Most of them are from the poor more rural western and southern parts of Spain. So Extra Madura, you know, Anderuthia and so on.

They're quite young by and large. They're in their 20s. The more senior people are in their early 30s. So Pizarro, he's unusually old then.

He's a real outlier. He's about 52, I would say. Yeah. These are not trained soldiers by and large. There's loads of accountants, tailor, merchants, craftsman, there's a barber, there's a stonemason. These are people who basically were they weren't the poorest of the poor. They were artisans, I guess, who have decided to, you know, seek a new new life and a new fortune. There are some, aren't there? as the cretan guy, the artillery man. So, it's good to have him on the scene. He's come with Pizarro and some guns and Pizarro's brother Ernando who fought in Italy. So, there's a couple of people with military experience and a lot of these people will have seen action in the Caribbean and that involved basically killing defenseless indigenous people, natives.

That's the action that they're used to. They're not, you know, trained professional soldiers by any means. And why are they here? They are here really for money. Some of them are there for adventure. Some of them may be there for crusading zeal. You know the the Dominicans, for example, there are five or six Dominicans who are with them.

Yes, of course. Dr. Valverde among them. Exactly. But there's a transactional element. When they've got their gold, they they either settle down with a farm in Peru or a lot of them will go back to Spain. That's the plan. So anyway, they set off 24th of September. It's a gruelling grueling trudge. So, as one account puts it, there was much sun, little shade, much sand, and no water because this part of Peru is a kind of coastal desert plane. So, they're making good time about 14 mi a day. They're absolutely fascinated by what they see.

I mean, they write these fantastic accounts, the temples, the llamas, the very well-ordered uh roads and bridges, the storehouses of food by the roadside. I mean, that's a very good sign as far as they're concerned because that means there is a lot of order and civilization. If there are sort of well-maintained storehouses,

do they note with surprise the lack of wheels? I think it becomes obvious why there's no wheels because there are no horses.

And whenever they go, people shy away from the horses are absolutely astonished and horrified. A horse is a very frightening thing. I think if you've never seen a horse and we know throughout the Americas when the Spanish turned up with horses, people were absolutely stupified and amazed and frightened. But they're so they're beginning to attract attention. At one point a messenger hails them on the road and he says, "I have been sent by um the defeated brother by his faction at least. He has heard that you have come to bring justice to Peru and he wants to ask for your protection." And Pisaro gives him a kind of non-committal answer. He says, "Where there's injustice, you know, we'll put it right, but nothing more than that." There's also a very weird incident quite early on when the Spanish notice a kind of young man hanging around their camp and sort of lurking generally and he's dressed as a sort of street peddler and

he has this huge shawl that he wears over his head and shoulders to protect him from the sun and he's always trying to get them to buy his trinkets and they call him Apoo. Apoo is very interested in their horses and their swords and actually it turns out that Apoo is a spy sent by Atawelpa. So not a very good one. Not a terribly good one. No. Now, I mentioned at well, but what's he up to? The emperor, or at least the wouldbe emperor, who's been fighting his brother. He has made camp about 300 miles away in the mountains near the town of Cayamaka.

His priority is not the Spanish, it is the civil war. So, he's waiting for news from the south where his commander, who has the excellent name of Kiskis, is leading the final assault on Kusco. So when he gets news that a load of BS with beards have turned up on the coast, they've been looting villages. They've been behaving poorly in storehouses, helping themselves to the food, they've been very rude to some of the locals. He's perturbed, you know, what's all this? But he's not especially frightened. A Pooh reports back and says, "The Spanish are in absolute shambles."

Actually, yeah. He says they're kind of villains, aren't they? Kind of indigents and robbers.

Yeah, exactly. He says they're just an absolute bunch of rogues. Apoo actually says I think we should let them come kill them all except for three cuz three of them are worth something. They've got a blacksmith who makes swords, amazing swords. We should keep him. We should keep the guy who's the horse tamer because he can control these incredible beasts. And quite sweetly he says we should keep the barber because he makes men look young again.

Nice. By shaving them. By shaving them presumably. So there are people in Peru who do have beards,

I guess. So I don't know. I was thinking about this. Surely Andian's a clean shaven. Surely relatively clean shaven.

I don't know. But I mean because the whole stuff about bearded men coming. Yeah, exactly.

Important, isn't it? I suppose a Spanish beard is larger and bulkier than an Andian beard.

An Andian beard. You never would see an Andian beard particularly, would you? It's always about beards, isn't it, in history. Anyway, Atwell is intrigued by all this and he sends one of his senior officers called Sinchara to investigate. Confusingly, some chronicles say Seinara is the same person as Apoo and some chronicles say he isn't. So, listeners can decide for themselves.

The rich unknowability of history, it of the past. seeking Charara whether he's a poo or not, he arrives at this provincial capital called Kashas on the 10th of October and he finds that Anando Dotto the dashing horsemen has already arrived with a scouting party and who have we here now unfortunately is behaving very poorly. So Kashas this place has a college attached to its sun temple and the um college houses 500 aas which are young women from noble families who've been chosen for their bloodline or their beauty and basically they will spend four years weaving cloth and brewing beer for the emperor.

They're sort of virgins of the temple I suppose vessel virgin equivalents. Exactly. Sto and his men have dragged them out into the square and are busy divvying them up among themselves. Sikinara is appalled when he sees this, but obviously he can't really do anything about it because he doesn't he can't match the Spanish muscle. He introduces himself to Sto. So says, "Great. When we're finished with these women, I'll take you back to Pizarro," which he does. They go back to Pizarro's camp. Sikinchara is very cool, actually.

And we're told he entered as casually as if he'd been brought up all his life among Spaniards. This is because of course he's on home territory and he's used to he's an important person. He's used to being treated with respect. This leads me to believe by the way that he's not Apoo because if you'd been hanging around in a shore pretending to sell trinkets and then you return you would you would look shamefaced I think. But I I mean not not to do him down. I mean he's obviously a very very cool customer. You have to incredible courage to turn up and confront these terrible men. He's brought them some nice gifts though. has brought them two pots that are shaped as forts weirdly and some skinned ducks. And the Spanish take the gifts and it's amusing actually. The Spanish are convinced they must have some secret meaning. They're overthinking. So they're kind of staring at the pot. They're massively overthink

it. They're like, "Do the pots mean there are a lot of castles and what about the ducks? They will skin us alive." That's what the Spanish say. They think that they're going to be skinned alive like the ducks. Actually, I think he's just given them some something to eat. Anyway, Sikinchara spends two days in the camp. He makes a note of everything and finally he says to Pizarro, "Listen, the emperor would like you to continue to Kayamaka and he will greet you personally." And Pizaro is like, "Brilliant. This is what he wants." So, he sends Seinara back. He says, "Here's a lovely gift for the you and for the emperor. A nice linen shirt.

We've got two glass goblets from Venice and some scissors and some combs and a mirror." So, back they go with the gifts. Now, important to say at this point, some people may be listening to this and thinking, "Do the Incas believe that the Spaniards are gods?" Which is a thing you often hear, as you do about the conquest of Mexico. There was absolutely no evidence for this whatsoever. The Incas definitely didn't think they were gods, but they thought they might be I mean, some Incas seem to have thought they might be messengers of the gods. So, Vera Cotcha, the creator god, they call them these are Verachchas.

Yeah. Verkott's messengers or sons of Viracha. Exactly. And there is that kind of um quizal stuff that you have in Mexico with the idea of bearded men coming from the sea and that these are Vera Cotchas.

I'm not sure about that Tom. I don't I don't agree with that. I think for a couple of reasons. First of all, I think people end up even in the 16th century conflating the two conquests and taking details from one and putting them in the other as the stories are repeated and re and written down by other chronicers by basically it's that classic thing that historians do. The myths are repeated in secondary histories and then people stop questioning them. But the thing about that they are the sons of or the messengers of whatever this is almost certainly either a literary formula or it's a courtesy. I don't think people think they are literally sent by the gods because the way the Incas behave towards them is exactly as they would behave if they thought they were other human beings like themselves.

Yeah. Accepted. But just just to kind of slightly push on this. Mhm. The Incas are living among chaos. Their empire is being swept by plague. There is this terrible civil war and now these peculiar people with mad animals have turned up.

Yeah. Is there a sense of the kind of the Incan cosmology of different ages of you know cycles of time and might this be precaging a new cycle of time a kind of apocalyptic sense I think there is I mean there's definitely apocalyptic there there's definitely a strain there were stories of the end of the world and things like that but you don't get a massive sense that people think this is the end of days these people are the heralds of some terrible doom all of this kind of thing I I think actually most people are making much more pragmatic political considerations. I mean you can do both, can't you? Rather than apocalyptic or esqueological ones.

There's no we don't have really that much evidence of people thinking in apocalyptic terms about the coming of the Spaniards. But we do have evidence about them making kind of Machavelian calculations about what they can do with this new variable of 168 people with the horses in particular. I think that's what Atawpa is doing. By the way, I think Atawpa is sitting there in Kaiama. He's thinking about the civil war. All the evidence actually for the next year or so is that that's pretty much all Atawper is thinking about is the civil war. I think he thinks these will be excellent mercenaries or if he can kill them, get their horses, get their the guy who can make the swords for him.

Yes, of course. You know, it's literally a cutting edge, isn't it? Exactly. That that I think that's I think his their military technology really interests him and he thinks brilliant. I can use this to finish off Hascar's faction, complete my victory in the Civil War. There's no reason for him to think this is an existential threat. The Spaniards, of course, know what happened in Mexico to Montezuma. He doesn't know. He's never heard of the Spaniards before. I mean, even at this stage, they are maybe thinking a decapitation strategy. You capture the top man, maybe some of his family, some of the elite, and then you leave the empire legalist. It worked for an Cortez. It worked for your cousin Francisco, maybe it'll work for you.

I guess that kind of, you know, capturing leading people is in the DNA of the of the Spaniards. I mean, it's in the DNA of all Christians. I mean, all that 100 years of war stuff. Capturing people and using that to get money is what European soldiers do.

Isn't it 1527 they invaded the Rome, sacked Rome, took the pope prisoner, thereby causing the English Reformation. Yeah.

Exactly. So, the Spanish are coming closer and closer. They turn in land from the Pacific and they go up into the Andes. They go up through this uh valley through the cotton fields into the canyons. They're now about 13,000 ft above sea level. So they're breathless. They're cold. It's absolutely freezing. There's no shelter. They're very very anxious cuz they can see people watching them the whole time from kind of watchtowwers. I cannot imagine doing it.

It's crazy. It just seems insane behavior. Ando Pizarro said, you know, they could have finished us off at any time. We couldn't use the horses on the mountain roads. Um, off the roads, we could take neither horses nor foot soldiers. We were completely vulnerable, snaking along these kind of mountain passes. And the Incubs are watching us, but they are not acting. And actually, we know from well, we get the sense from later um chronicles and things that some of Atala's counselors said, why are you letting these people come? Why not just strike now and kill them all? And Asawelpa says to them, "It is folly to be so concerned about 170 men. Let's find out who they are. What what have we got to lose? Let them keep coming." He really wants to see the horses. He wants to see these guys who have strange weapons that make an explosion and everyone runs away, arabuses and stuff.

And it's a bit different from Montuma. Montizuma was in his capital in the palace. Atawper is with his army. He's in a military camp with 80,000 men. Why would he be frightened about fewer than 200?

He's just won a very bloody civil war. I mean, no one can be in any doubt that he's ready to crush his enemies if he has to.

Right. Exactly. On the 9th of November, they get another messenger from Atawalpa. The messenger brings them 10 llamas as a gift, and he says, "The emperor is at the hot springs near Kaiama, outside Kayamaka. They're 5 days march away. He's looking forward to seeing you." They make slow progress and 5 days later they reach the last village before the valley of Kaaka which is called Zavana. They've now been on the road for 52 days, 6 months in total since they left the coast cuz they've ded at first. Another messenger brings them food from says he can't wait.

Looking forward to seeing you. And Pizarro says to his men, "Right, get ready for battle now. Like we're pretty close." So that's the 14th. The next day is the 15th. The path rises for the last time in the mountains and they reach the highest point at around midday and they look down and they see the valley of Cayamaka. It's only a few miles wide. It's very fertile fields of cotton plantations. They can see the stone buildings of the town glinting in the sunlight. And then beyond that, four miles behind the town, they can see this what looks like a sea of white shapes.

And these are the tents of Atawal Paz army, tens of thousands strong. So to quote one of the concistadors, so many tents were visible that we were filled with great apprehension. We never thought that Indians, his terminology, not mine, could maintain such a proud estate, nor have so many tents in such good order. It filled all of us Spaniards with fear and confusion. But it was not appropriate to show any fear, far less, to turn back. And so Pizaro says, "Come on then, let's do this." and they spur their horses and they begin to descend the path towards the town of Cayamaka. God. So they approach the wall of Kayamaka. They go through the gate.

Kaka today is a very kind of handsome Spanish colonial town. At the time it was an Inca town of about 2,000 people. And when they get there, there's hardly anybody there. The streets are deserted, quiet. There are no people to be seen. One Spanish memoirist said later, "All we could hear was the ghostly keening of women singing of the death that awaits the strangers who have provoked the wroth of the great Inca." I mean, that's pretty terrifying. So, they press on, they go past the sun temple, they go past another of these convents, and they emerge into this main square of Kaiam. Now, very important for people to get this into their heads.

This square is surrounded on three sides by these kind of long low stone buildings which were basically they're 200 yards long and each of these buildings had about 20 doors in it. And basically what they were they were called kankers and they were used as dormatories for people who came through the town to work in the kind of labor gangs or in the army or even pilgrims arriving for a religious festival or something like that. They're there surrounded by these long low buildings in the middle of this square and there's no one else there and it starts to rain and they say well let's go into these buildings and they go and take shelter in the barracks do also can I just ask in the in the middle of this square there's a kind of a ceremonial platform isn't there so that's also going to play a part

exactly so Pizaro and his captains gather around they have a little counselor war and they're all very nervous you know there's no one here What's going on?

I mean, how could you not be nervous? Of course, I'm not I'm not knocking them.

Sound like you're you're judging them. I wouldn't be nervous. From the heart of the Cotsworlds.

Yeah. He sends uh his left tenant and do the sto. He says, "I want you to go over to Asawala. Go over to his camp wherever he is. He's at these hot springs or whatever they are. Take 15 of your best horsemen. Take one of the interpreters with you." The Spanish can't agree whether it's Felipio or Martineo. Don't they know the difference? find out what he wants, what his plan is, you know, where does he want us to stay, all of this. Sto goes off with the cavalry, 15 men, and Francisco goes for a walk with his brother Anando. And Anando goes with him and says, "I think we made a mistake. Actually, you've just sent our best horsemen off at a welper, but there's only 15 of them. And if the Incas turn on them, you know, there's curtains for them." And Francisco says, "Yeah, you're right. Actually, you go after them. take 20 more men and go after them. And Anando does. And that's very lucky for us and for everyone

listening to this podcast because among the men that Anando takes are people who wrote books about it afterwards. So there's a guy called Miguel de Estete and there's a guy called Diego de Truillo and they both wrote long eyewitness accounts of the meeting which of course in traditional Spanish concisador fashion disagree with each other on the details. But anyway, so Anando is following Sto along this stone road which goes out for 4 miles from the town to a place called Pula Maraka. Today it's called Bos Deinka, the baths of the Inca, which tells you what it was like cuz it's basically a spring. It's a spa. Atawalpa is taking the waters there and to get there they have to go pass through Atawalpa's army to all the tents and Aete in his account says you know we were absolutely terrified advancing through these ranks and ranks of soldiers who are just staring at us in silence

but having to to kind of convey a sense of cool and fortitude of course imagine imagine it's like the bit in Apocalypse now when they arrive at Marlon Brando's camp and all the tribesmen sort of staring at them silently. It's like that. And finally, they get through the camp and there's Atawalpa's sort of palace building, his country house or whatever it is. This stone building with two towers and it's gu there's about 400 warriors guarding it. And all they can hear is the water bubbling in the pipes and pools of the hot springs. Just this deathly silence.

And their interpreter says, "We'd like to see the emperor." And um no one, you know, Atala doesn't come out. And Anando Pizaro, who's very hottempered, starts shouting, "Tell that dog to come out." God, it's lucky they didn't speak Spanish.

Yeah. And eventually a nobleman appears and it's their old mate, seeking. And um he there's some form of interaction. Very garbled actually.

And eventually the moment comes where they will see the emperor. Though what's unclear from the accounts is if they go in or Atawalpa comes out. I think they go in. Actually,

Apoo isn't around. Well, Apu may be seeking. This is the confusing thing. So, why are all the accounts so garbled? This cuts to the confusion of the story. The Spaniards themselves are very confused because they don't really know what's going on. They don't speak a word of Ketwa. Um, they're in this new land. They might as well be on an alien planet. Weird people, weird customs, all this. And their interpreters are useless. So, whoever is there, either Felipio or Martineo, they stumble and stutter. They keep they must be frightened themselves. They're stumbling and stuttering over their words. And actually, when they do talk to Atawala, Atawpa at one point says of the interpreter, "What does this fellow mean stammering from one word to another and from one mistake to the next as if he were dumb?" But how do we know he said that?

Because the interpreter must translate. How can we trust the interpreter if they're useless?

Well, I think it's highly unlikely you'd make that up about yourself. The emperor is saying that I'm a useless translator. You're not going to make that up, are you? But anyway, throughout this story runs this thread of misunderstanding, possibly deliberate misinformation. In the Aztec story, listeners will recall that Melinee may well have been manipulating the whole thing. And we don't we just don't know about these interpreters, these boys, whether they were making stuff up or whatsoever. Anyway, this is now the moment when they first lay eyes on the emperor. To quote one concistador, he was seated on a small stool very low on the ground as the Turks and Moors are accustomed to sit with all the majesty in the world surrounded by all his women and with many chiefs near him. And they describe him probably in his early 30s. He's got long black hair. He wears his hair long because he's been injured in the Civil

War in the ear and he's covering that up. Oh, that's bad if you're a big ear, isn't it? Uh, yes, I guess so. Exactly. So, that's probably why he grows his hair. Um, he has a brightly colored cloak. He's got this thing on his brow, which is the crown. This cirlet of of red wool threaded with gold and this kind of red tassel that hangs above his eyes. And this crown is called the mascapeta, which is the crown of the sappa Inca. But he's sitting on the stool. He doesn't move. He doesn't even look at them. And they advance closer.

Strangely, they're still on horseback. I don't quite know how this works, whether he's come out or they've gone in. But they're still on their horses because we are told So Sto's horse was so close to Atawpa that the breath from its nostrils stirred the tassel. But still, Atawalpa doesn't show a flicker of emotion. Well, that speaks very well of his courage, doesn't it?

Very well. Cuz they're terrified of the horses. So takes a gold ring off his finger and he hands it to Atawelpa and he says with the translator speaking, he says, "I give you this as a token of peace and friendship." Atela puts out his hand. He takes the ring, but he still won't meet Sto's eye, and he doesn't show a flicker of emotion. And Sto then gives a prepared speech. He says, um, I come on behalf of a mighty king, King Charles. He has appointed Francisco Pizaro as governor of these lands. Um, he and Pizaro would be absolutely thrilled if you would come and see him in the town. Ata says nothing and he still doesn't raise his eyes. And one of his noblemen speaks up through the interpreter and says, "You know, the Sappa Inca is not going to be going anywhere. This is the last day of his ritual fast in celebration of his victory in the war and he will not be accompanying you." And Nando Pizaro at

this point completely loses patience and he says, "Yo, for God's sake, man, will you look at us or whatever?" He he shout he shouts at Atawelpa. And now for the first time, Atawelpa raises his eyes to meet them. His eyes are blazing with fury. They are implacable. And they are, if they could be cold and blazing, they're both blazing and cold. And his eyes meet theirs. And now at last he speaks. Are you leaving us on that cliffhanger?

On that? Yeah. Oh my god. Unbearable tension. Well, we better go and have a break and listen to some adverts or something. Uh unless of course you're a member of the rest of history club. Anyway, we will be back to find out what has to say to the Spaniards. This episode is brought to you by Claude by Anthropic. Now, history lives in the contradictions. Yeah, I've always been fascinated by the great mysteries of history, like what happened to the Maya civilization of Central America. Why were all those great cities deserted?

But Tom, there's one mystery that's always fascinated you, isn't there? Yes, Dominic. I've always been uh fascinated by the question of how humans came to make and use fire. How did that originate? And a tremendous discovery was announced just last year that uh the place where it seems fire was invented was Suffukk. Well, you know, one of the things that makes history so fascinating is the kind of back and forth between sources to try and explain these great mysteries. And you know what's built for that kind of thinking? Claude is built for that way of thinking. It doesn't smooth things over. It helps you dig into the disagreement to reveal something new. Ananthropic just committed to not running adverts in Claude so your thinking stays yours. Try Claude for free at claude.ai/rest is history.

Hello everyone. Welcome back to the rest is history. It is the 15th of November 1532. We are outside the town of Kamaka and Anando Loto and Anando Pizaro are face to face with the emperor of the Incas. The redoubtable terrifying Atawpa with his what was it Dominic? His blazing and ice cold eyes. Yeah. And so there's been a very tense standoff. And now Ataelper has raised those blazing and ice cold eyes to meet the eyes of the Spaniards. He's about to speak and Dominic, what does he say?

Nothing good. He says, "I have heard complaints about you from my men in the north. My captain and Sam Miguel sent to tell me that you've treated the chiefs badly and threw them into chains and he sent me an iron collar. He says that he killed three Christians and one horse." And Anando Pizaro now does all the talking and he is a very undiplomatic man. He says, "Your men in San Miguel were women. They were no better than women. One horse was enough to conquer the whole land. And when you see us fight, you will know what kind of men we are. And Atala then says, and this goes back to something you were saying in the first half, Tom. He says, I could have stopped you coming, but I chose not to.

I know you are the sons of Vircha. You are messengers from our god king Pachakouti. Your coming was foretold by my father, Hua Kapak. So I gave orders that nobody was to stop or harm you. But you think this is fabricated by a Spaniard who is muddling it up with what Mazuma had said to Cortez, do you? Or do you think this is an authentically what he might have said?

I think there are multiple explanations of this. So one of them is he genuinely thinks they're messengers from his the god king Patricki. I think this is extremely unlikely. Nothing that Atawpa does, if he genuinely thought that, would he not have met their eyes earlier? Would he not be a bit more polite? I think of course he would have behaved differently if he genuinely thought that. So I think there are two possibilities. One is that this is a literary flourish and that you know this has now become the formula.

Mhm. That when you write a chronicle of Spanish conquest of somewhere in the Americas, the king greets you with these kinds of words and this is what the readers like. Number two is he does say this. This actually I think number two is probably right. He probably does say something a bit like this and it's a courtesy. I would have said so too because I mean what who or what is Vericotta to the Spaniards?

Yeah. I mean they don't care. It might be embellished or whatever. I think it's a little bit like to borrow what math the great historian Matthew Restl said about when this happened in Mexico. He said it's a little bit like it's an exaggerated version of when someone comes to your house and you say oh do what you like you know fetcom shvu you know relax enjoy. You don't really mean it. You don't mean do whatever you like. you you say, you know, flowery things to make people feel welcome. And this is what Atawper is doing. Anyway, when he does this, Anando moderates his tone and he says, um, "My brother, the governor, they always call Francisco Pizaro the governor."

Governor. Yeah. Not the governor loves you dearly. If you have any enemies, we will send horsemen to deal with them for you. With 10 horsemen, we could defeat all your enemies. Your own men will only be needed to mop up the people who run away. And Anand Ando says this to Atelpa. And Atuelpa just gives this cold smile. And Ando himself, who wrote a memoir of it, recalls, "He smiled as someone who did not think much of us." Of course, Atala may be very excited by this deep down cuz he may be thinking, "Yeah, these horses were a big deal." And I could really finish off my brother's faction with these horses. And of course, he doesn't need the Spaniards to ride them in the long run.

Exactly. He says, at Alpa now says, "Will you dine with me?" And they say no and we have to go back. He says, "Will you'd like drinks?" I'll get he gets women to bring them jugs of this beer, this chicha. And then the sun is setting and ate says, "Would you like to stay the night?" And Anando says, "No, we'd like to go back to our friends in the town in Cayamarka." And at says, "Okay, you can stay in these barracks around the town square." Brilliant. And then he says, "I'll see you tomorrow. Tomorrow I'll come into Cayamaka to meet your leader." But there's one more moment before they leave. Atwell clearly fascinated by the horses. So Anando doto dressards champion of Spain gives him a little riding demonstration. He wheels around on this horse. We're told that Atawelpa was amazed and amazed at seeing the agility with which it wheeled. But the common people showed even greater admiration. There was much whispering.

So there's clearly a little crowd. One squadron of troops drew back when they saw the horse coming towards them. And there's actually a dark side to this story. So when the Spanish gone, Atawalpa says those soldiers who um drew back, round them all up, please and execute them because they showed fear and we can't show fear at the strangest animals. And some sources say he said um find their wives and children and kill them too. I want to make sure that nobody does this again and that uh you know we don't show the slightest flicker of fear when we see the Spaniard's horses. So end the bloodline of these cowards.

Exactly. Exactly. You said that with real relish, Tom. I could see you saying that actually if one of our producers showed fear of a horse. I think that would have been a good incor. So nightfalls in Cayamaka, but the Spanish can't sleep. So Pizarro has a young cousin called Pedro who acted as his page, and Pedro described a council of war in Pizarro's quarters. We took many views and opinions among ourselves about what should be done. All were full of fear, for we were so few and so deep in the land where we could not be reinforced. Of course, let's remind ourselves there are 168 of them. They are thousands of miles from help. There are several million people between them and the coast. And they are basically up against 80,000 Incor camped in the tents just outside the town. So quite a tight corner. It's yeah the odds are against them. I think it's reasonable to say.

And Pizarro encourages his men, says, "Come on, we've got this. We can do this." And he, one of the chronicles says, you know, that night he went around and he said, you know, every man a knight. Every man is a knight. It's very like the kingdom of heaven, if you've seen that film, the Orlando Bloom Crusades film, where at the end he knits everybody in the defense of this city. So even though that he's saying all this, they must be thinking, Jesus, this is going to be tough. So the question is, what will they do when morning comes? when um Atawalpa turns up. Now some Spanish chronicle said later, "Pizaro is hoping that Atawalpa will submit will agree to accept Charles V as this overlord and Jesus as the as you know the master of all." I think this is highly unlikely that Pizarro thought that would actually happen. I mean, he'd be mad if he thought that would happen.

I think he was always going to use some form of violence. He knew what his cousin Cortez had done in Mexico. And as Matthew Resttol says in his excellent books about the Spanish conquest of the Americas, standard practice was theatrical terror. You strike first. You use surprise. You use your military technology, which is your horses, your swords, and so on. And your guns. Yeah. And your guns. And you hope that that will prevail. You can frighten people into acquiescing. And so this is what Pizaro says to his men. He says, "Look, we're going to take advantage of the geography. When Aselpa and his men arrive, we will allow them to filter into the main square. Whereas, you rightly said, Tom, there's a platform in the middle, and Asoelper will probably go up onto the platform or something like that. We'll see. Now, meanwhile, we will be in the barracks, which are on three sides of the square.

Everyone will wait for my signal to burst out of the doorways. On two sides, we'll have most of the horses under Stoando and the other big cheeses. And they can deal with the Inca troops. On the third side, I'll be there with a smaller group of people and our job is to snatch at a welper. And as for the rest of the men, and we're not talking about huge numbers, you hide in the alleys around the square. When the fighting starts, try to seal off the square, and that will mean that the Incor, and they'll at the mercy of our cavalry. And as for the signal, when Atawra has taken his place in the center of the square, Pedro de Candia, the the guy from Cree, the artilleryman, he can fire his guns, blow a load of trumpets, and when you hear that, it's game on and we'll do this.

And Pedro Kandia is on this raised platform, isn't he? Yes, he is. He's on the platform.

So, kind of relatively speaking, Commanding Heights. Exactly. Right. Now, Miguel de Esteete, who's one of the memoirists, described the mood after the meeting broke up and darkness drew in. Few slept, and we kept watching the square from which the campfires of the Indian army could be seen. It was a terrible sight. Most of them were on a hillside and close to one another. It looked like a brilliantly star studded sky. So, they're kind of looking out at these campfires, these tents, and they're absolutely the Spanish, you know, they're absolutely terrified.

So, the hours pass, they don't get much sleep. Dawn breaks the 16th of November 1532. Atawalpa's ritual fast is over. He and his closest friends have been drinking to mark the end of the fast. He's in no hurry to go anywhere. Actually probably got a bit of a hangover. So all morning the Spanish wait. Their um Dominicans have held mass. Everything is ready. The tension, you know, mounting all the time. A messenger arrives midm morning from Atawalpa's camp and he sayspa is still coming he's coming with his men but and his men will be armed. Pizarro says fine you can come however he likes I will welcome him as a friend and a brother.

That's nice. Another hour goes by no one comes. Then another messenger arrives and he says um actually they've changed their mind. They're going to leave their weapons behind. And why is that do you think? I I genuinely don't know. I think it never really occurs to Atawalpa that he'd need the weapons. He's got so many men.

Yeah, I suppose got so many men and then the Spanish would be mad to attack him. Just think highly 168 men against 80,000. I mean, you'd never do that. Still, they don't come though. Um, at midday there's movement in Atala's camp and the Spanish lookouts say the entire plane is full of men. Now, Pizarro's men have all taken their places in the barracks and and hiding and whatnot and and you can imagine how nervous they are now. Pedro Pizarro said, "I saw many Spaniards urinate without noticing it out of pure terror." So, the Incas start to advance towards the town. And I quote, "They all wore large gold and silver discs like crowns on their heads. They were apparently all coming in their ceremonial clothes with a livery of checkered colors like a chessboard. And as they march, the Incor are kind of doing this motion to sweep the ground as if clearing rubbish off the ground or something. And they're singing a song

which the Spanish don't understand. But one of them said it was by no means lacking grace for those of us who heard it. Half a mile outside the town, the Incas stop. And Pizarro can't believe it. He sends out an interpreter. Why have you stopped? At Alpa's men say, well, we've been told to halt. It's mid-after afternoon now and the emperor has decided he'd like to spend the night outside the city and come in tomorrow and Pizarro is horrified by that. He doesn't want the Incas right outside the town overnight cuz the one thing the Spanish are dreading is a night attack.

And he sends another Spaniard to go and implore Atawalpa, please come and visit us before nightfall. You know, we won't harm you. We won't hurt you. You don't you can come without fear. as a slightly weird thing to say. Why would Atawa be frightened? There's no reason for him to be afraid. The Spanish are rather giving themselves away there. I think

they are, aren't they? Yeah. I mean, it's betraying their secret thoughts. It is. Ex. Exactly. It is. Anyway, the sun is beginning to sink and at last Atawpa moves. He advances now with about 6,000 men, leaving most of his army outside the town. His men, as they promised, they've left their, as it were, the heavier weapons behind. They've got slings. They've got stones. And they've got little axes. Maybe kind of ceremonial axes almost. They come through the gate. They come along the street. At last, they enter the central square. The vanguard. Then the emperor's party. Many of them wearing these big feathered headdresses and stuff. And Atawalpa himself. He is sitting, and I quote, on a very fine litter lined with feathers of many colors and embellished with plates of gold and silver. 80 lords carried him on their shoulders, all wearing a very rich blue livery. He was seated on the litter on a small stool

with a rich saddle cushion, very richly dressed with his crown on his head and a collar of large emeralds around his neck. Very like Monteuma on the causeway being brought out to meet N and Cortez.

I mean, it is amazing how many parallels between those two stories there are. It is, isn't it? I agree completely.

You do wonder, did it actually happen or are the two accounts bleeding into one another? They're not making it up, but

yeah, I think the two accounts do bleed into each other a bit actually. I think that's what makes it quite hard to discern the truth. That said, there are enough Spanish accounts of this incident,

of course, for us not to doubt it. And the example of what Cortez did with Mckazuma is obviously an inspiration here

completely. So, the sun has now almost set. There are thousands of Incas in the square. Atawalpa signals from the litter and he's raised up high above people's heads. and one of his captains steps forward with his personal standard as if to claim this kind of central platform. Now, what is Atawpa thinking at this moment? Everything we know of him is that he is a very ruthless and proud and if necessary violent man. I don't think he senses any danger. I think he thinks the Spanish are shambles and are undisiplined. I think his plan is that at some point this evening he will take Pizarro prisoner. Possibly he will kill him. possibly he will kill the Spaniards, but what he wants are the horses to use in his war. What he doesn't expect is that the Spaniards won't be there. And he he calls out in Ketwa, where are they? You know, where are you? And two Spaniards come out of one of these barracks. One of them is a

guy called Ernando Dana who had learned a little catchw so he could work as a he could help with the interpreting. And the other is the Dominican frier Vicente de Valverde. Great to have a Valverde back on the show. And he is with one of these interpreters, either Martineo or Filipio. And he is holding a cross in one hand and a prayer book in the other. And he advances towards Atawalpa. And there are different accounts, very confusing accounts of what happened next. But here is, I think, a way through. Valverde kicks off by saying to Atalpa, would you like to come inside and have dinner with Francisco Pizarro? And this is obviously a ploy to get him apart from his men.

And Atalpa says, "No." And Atalpa says straight away, he's less consiliatory today. And he says, "I've come to tell you to return everything you've stolen since you entered my kingdom." I mean, clearly, I think this is he's getting gearing up for a fight. And Vverde, who must have been very nervous, begins to recite something. And the interpreter is translating all the time. And Valverde says, "I'm a minister of Christ." And he starts gabbling about the history of the world. Jesus came into the world, crucified to save sinners. My king Charles the 5th has sent me to tell you all about this. Um, you must accept Christ as your master in heaven. You must accept my my king Charles the 5th as your master on earth. You must become his vassel. You must give up your gods.

And if you don't, quote, "If you refuse and seek to resist, then you and all your people will be destroyed just as the pharaoh of old and all his host perished in the Red Sea." I mean, if the translator is interpreting all this to Atela, Atawba must have been listening to this thinking, "What is this?" I can't believe he said that.

Yeah. Well, of course, it just seems extraordinary. But it's signaling how the Spaniards will cast the downfall of Atala right?

Of course. Of course. Now I think what Valver is doing I think what a lot of historians think what Valver is doing is he is reciting a version of the requirement which is this bizarre legal document we mentioned already that since 1513 Spanish captains are legally bound to read out to the peoples of the Americas before they kill them. Now, even at the time when the Council of Castile approved this, lots of Spaniards said, "Are you mad? You're going to read this out to people before you attack them. I mean, expect them to understand it." And of course, the interpreters are useless in Kaiama. So, they're kind of mistransating things.

And Atelper listening to this must have just thought, "What? Gibberish." Yeah. Now, Atelker is looking confused, angry, impatient. And Vverde says, "Perhaps you'd like to have a look at my prayer book."

Making Chad small talk. At Welper, to stress, has never seen a book before or writing of any kind.

Well, no, cuz he's only got cords with knots in, hasn't he? Cord with knots. Vverde gives him the book, and it's one of those books that must have like a buckle or a clip or a lock or something like that on it. And Atawalpa tries to open it, and he can't open it. He's never seen an object like this and Vverde reaches out to help him. At Welper hits him contemptuously, manages to open the book and stares at it. And we are told he looked with great interest at the construction of the book, the sort of the what it was. But obviously he doesn't know that these symbols are words or that there's a story or that they're prayers or whatever. It's just madness to him. Now, what happens next is unclear. Some people say Atawala threw the book down in the dust and with contempt. Some say that actually Valverde took the book back and dropped it or dropped it while handing it to him or something like

this. Anyway, at some point the book ends up on the ground in the dust and this is the pretext that the Spanish need. When the book falls, Atawalpa shouts something to his own men. But Valverde is already running back to the barracks and he's shouting to Bizarro, "Come out. Come out, Christians. The dogs have rejected the word of God. That proud dog has thrown my book of holy law to the ground. He has become a Lucifer." Or words to that effect. That is the trigger for Pedro Decandia on the platform to fire his guns into the crowd at the anchors. At the incor. Now, of course, the Incor must have seen the guns, but they didn't know what they were.

So, what a shock that is. Suddenly, the guns, there's a huge, you know, bang, bang, bang. The Incor are reeling in the crowd. Then, Pedro Cander says, "Sound the trumpets." The trumpets blast. So, there's a sort of sensory overload. And it's at that point that the Spanish horsemen burst out of the barracks on their horses. They've got their swords drawn. They're all screaming Santiago. Santiago, which is their kind of war cry. And it's very like the bit at the end of the two towers helms deep when the riders of Rohan kind of burst out of the fortress cutting a sway through the orcs. This is the scene in the square.

So the Spanish have tied bells and rattles to their horses bridles to make the maximum possible noise. And the Incas of course who are not used to horses, who are frightened of horses, straight away they're in total chaos. They're screaming. They're running everywhere. They're stampeding and crushing each other. Well, it's come as a complete surprise, right? Total surprise. The Spanish have come from nowhere. Guns, horses. This is stuff they've never seen before. The swords are flashing. The incor are slipping and falling everywhere. There's bodies piling up. There's blood everywhere.

People are literally suffocating each other in the crush and the carnage. And when they get to the ends to the to the gates to the ways out of the square, Pizarro's other men are there, swords drawn to block them. Now, some of the Incas managed to break through a low wall and to get out of the square into the fields beyond. So, thousands of people start streaming out into the fields, but the Spanish horsemen are following them out. And the captains are shouting, and I quote, "Ride them down. Don't let any of them escape." And there's just a scene of utter slaughter.

The cavalry riding them down one by one without mercy, cutting them down. The whole thing takes 2 hours. And it is a complete and utter walkover. The Wikipedia entry calls it the battle of Cayamaka.

But it's not a battle. But it's not a battle. It's a complete massacre. So Spanish sources themselves said, you know, once the cavalry had done their work and then burst out following the people who were running away, the foot soldiers went into the square and they put every single person there to the sword. During all this, no Indian even raised a weapon against a Spaniard. At Alpa's nephew, Titukuzi, who wrote his own version of events long time afterwards, said, "It was said that the Spanish went about their business like slaughter men with cattle, just killing them grimly, methodically, without any pity." I mean, that metaphor, it shows how long after

it must have been for an Inca to come up with that. Exactly. Yeah. John Heming in his brilliant book, The Conquest of the Incas, said, you know, that how how do you know how many people died? Somewhere between two and 8,000. Even if you take a kind of lower estimate, each Spaniard must have killed probably 10, 12, 14, 15 Peruvians each. I mean, there's a lot of bloodshed. It's a it's a dreadful, dreadful story. And among the people who are killed, of course, are Atawpa's elite. his stewards, his servants, his friends, his counselors, his chief advisers, his chief noblemen, his chief captains, all of these people who would have been with him, who would never have they would never have thought that anything like this could happen. So, it is a complete decapitation.

Yeah. Complete catastrophe for the Inca state. And Dominic, I have to ask, yeah, what about the emperor? Well, so right at the beginning, Pizarro and his men had made straight for the litter, and they'd been shouting Santiago as well. They hacked their way through the crowd, and Pizarro, we're told, grabbed hold of Atawelpa's left arm, but he couldn't pull him out of the litter, which of course has been held up quite high. And loads of Incas are clinging to the litter to stop them taking the emperor. And the Spanish, I mean a hideous scene, are literally hacking at the Inca's arms, cutting off their hands, cutting off their arms in an attempt to get the litter down. But more Incor are rushing round to protect him.

Eventually, one of the Spaniards, Miguel de Esteete, who wrote a really good memoir about all this, he pulled the crown off Atala's head and then he slashed at his knife and Pizarro shouted, "No, don't kill him." And he put his hand in the way. So his own man cut his hand which is now dripping with blood. Eventually in the chaos seven or eight Spaniards managed to kind of weigh down one side of the litter and they dragged Atawala out and they bundled him away through the chaos towards the temple of the sun and they locked him in this temple while the rest of their comrades went about their murderous work in the square. And then when the fighting had totally died down they brought him out again.

They dragged him to one of the barracks. He's covered with, you know, blood. His clothes are ragged, all of that. They give him new clothes. Are they European clothes or that? I don't know actually. It just says new clothes. So, I'm guessing maybe European clothes. And then they bring him in to see Pizarro, who like a Bond villain set up.

Will we meet again, Mr. Atawalpa? Set up a table and chairs for dinner. Actually, it's interesting. The table and chairs. The Incas didn't eat with a table and chairs. So, are we led to believe that the Spanish had brought a table and chairs with them?

Oh, yeah. That sounds improbable. It's a it's a mad detail, but so much of this story is mad. And actually, it's going to get madder because Atawa sits down to dinner with Pizaro surrounded by Spanish guards and servants. As John Emming says in his brilliant book, what a weird scene. The the Spaniards are caked in blood and sweat and Pizarro is having dinner and Atawbra is sitting there tra I mean completely traumatized, right? Do we know what they're eating? I don't know what guinea pig surely.

Guinea pig. Guinea pig and sweet potatoes. And then if that's not weird enough, Pizarro says a sentence that I don't think anyone listening to this will expect. You'll sleep with me tonight because this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship. Because basically he says to the servants, "Make up a mattress for the emperor. He will sleep with me. Next to me, we will sleep side by side." And so you have this incredible scene, the most powerful man in South America, bedding down for the night, right next to this illegitimate, illiterate Spanish veteran who has just pulled off one of the most amazing coups in all history. Do you think either of them get any sleep? I see Pizaro as a snorer to be honest. So I think it's a tough night for Atawpa. Night falls over Kaiamaka. Outside the city in their their camp, the Inca army is just in disbelief at what's happened. In the square, the the Carryan crows are

feasting on the bodies of the dead. And in Pizarro's quarters, he andra lying, you know, a few inches away from each other with Spanish guards by the door. It has been one of the most incredible days in history. Uh, one chronicler said, "Truly, it was not accomplished by our own forces, for there were so few of us. It was by the grace of God." But of course, it wasn't really the grace of God. It was the recklessness, the ingenuity, the daring of Pizarro and the brutality of the concistadors that had brought all this about

and I suppose the complete miscomprehension that Adava had of what he was up against. I mean, cruel and brutal though he is as well.

Yeah, of course. I mean, my heart doesn't bleed for Atawalpa, but what happened to the Incas in that square is still pretty pretty brutal, pretty horrible. But the story, of course, isn't over because there are still only 168 Spaniards and they are still surrounded by tens of thousands of Inca warriors and they're still at the heart of a country of more than 10 million people, you know, who are not necessarily very friendly to them. So Pizarro now has some choices to make and we will soon find out what his plan is and what he has in mind for Atawelpa, emperor of the Incas. But we won't find out until the next episode. So members of the rested history club can hear that episode right now. Um and a massive excitement they will be able to get the next three episodes on Thursday. And if you are not a member of the rest is history club, not a member of our happy band of concistadors and you would like

to join them, then head to the rest is history.com to sign up. But for now, adios. Adios.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "The Most Unbelievable Battle In All History | Fall of the Incas EP 2"?

Tom Holland (Host), Dominic Sandbrook (Host).

What is "The Most Unbelievable Battle In All History | Fall of the Incas EP 2" about?

Spanish conquistadors, led by Francisco Pizarro, exploit a fracturing Inca empire amid civil war and a smallpox outbreak to seek wealth and power, risking a staggering clash between a tiny force of 168 Spaniards and a vast Incan realm of millions. The episode covers the strategic leverage of Inca internal division, disease, and rapid conquest tactics in the lead-up to a pivotal encounter.

What is mentioned in this The Rest Is History episode?

31 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Atawpa, Cayamaka, Francisco Pizarro, Inca Empire, civil war, Peru. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "The Most Unbelievable Battle In All History | Fall of the Incas EP 2"?

The episode runs 60 min; the transcript is about 11,140 words in 127 timestamped sections.

More from The Rest Is History

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated October 29, 2026.