Governors-Elect Sherrill & Spanberger On Winning & Governing | The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart

What this episode is about

Governors-elect Sherrill and Spanberger discuss the swift congressional action surrounding the release of the Epstein files, highlighting the discrepancy between the government's claims of inaction and their capacity to expedite decisions when politically convenient. They reflect on the implications of this phenomenon for public trust in Congress and share insights from their recent electoral victories, emphasizing the importance of accountability and leadership.

Key takeaways

• Congress just proved it can move faster than a Netflix cliffhanger when motivated, leaving cynics to wonder why the delay.
• Suddenly enthusiastic votes reveal Congress’s capability, raising questions about their actual priorities and commitment to transparency.
• Two women shatter ceilings and rewrite history: Virginia welcomes its first female governor, while New Jersey celebrates its second.
• In 2018, chaos birthed heroes: veterans and women reshaping Congress, fueled by a collective 'What have we done?' reckoning.
• From veterans to governors, Mikey and Abigail's bond reflects a narrative deeper than politics—it's about service and solidarity.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Jon Stewart (Host) · 34 min speaking
• Mikey Cheryl (Guest) · 26 min speaking
• Abigail Spanberger (Guest) · 26 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: Donald Trump, Damonte Cheryl
2. 10:00 – 20:00: Factor Chef
3. 20:00 – 30:00: Donald Trump
4. 30:00 – 40:00: Damonte Cheryl, Uplift V3, Pact Act
5. 40:00 – 50:00: Damonte Cheryl, Donald Trump
6. 1:00:00 – 1:10:00: Damonte Cheryl, Donald Trump
7. 1:10:00 – 1:20:00: Damonte Cheryl, Donald Trump
8. 1:20:00 – 1:25:24: Donald Trump

Notable quotes from "Governors-Elect Sherrill & Spanberger On Winning & Governing | The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart"

• Start and gotten it out there instead of all the rigomearroll about getting the Epstein files released and it is on to the desk of President Donald Trump who I'm sure will sign…

  about Donald Trump · at 1:28

• By margins that in the words of Donald Trump have never been seen before in this country. Ladies and gentlemen, Governor elect Mikey Cheryl, Democrat New Jersey Governor Elect…

  about Damonte Cheryl · at 2:50

• But this episode right here is sponsored by people that actually make food. It's called Factor Chef prepped dietitian approved meals. Then you can like stay on track with your…

  about Factor Chef · at 14:44

• And now you're all claiming you saw the floor of the house. They're all cheering. Hey, it's what we thought. It was exactly that way with Pact. Exactly that way with Zero.…

  about Pact Act · at 31:12

• Sitting down, which is what I'm doing all day long. But this uplift desk, it gets you moving. It's called the Uplift V3 standing desk. It's this you don't sit at it. You can…

  about Uplift V3 · at 33:37

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Damonte Cheryl — Person · Main guest (Governor-elect interviewee) · 6 mentions · first at 2:57
  Interview subject discussing her path from Congress to winning the New Jersey governorship, and her critique of congressional process and party incentives.
• Donald Trump — Person · Referenced political figure (President; target of critique) · 7 mentions · first at 1:34
  Central reference point for the episode’s political context: legislation theatrics, party control dynamics, and alleged transactional governance.
• Lois Frankel — Person · Referenced political figure (supporting network connector) · 2 mentions
  Mentioned as a senior member who supports women candidates and helped new members (Spanberger/Cheryl) find housing—illustrating informal congressional support systems.
  Lois Frankel from Florida always reaches out to she's very supportive of women candidates.

Concepts & topics

• Pact Act — Concept · Key argument · 1 mention · first at 31:16
  Mentioned as an example of legislation that faced unnecessary delays in Congress.

Sponsors

• Uplift V3 — Product · Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at 33:42
  Promoted as a standing desk solution during the podcast.
• Factor Chef — Product · Sponsor · 1 mention · first at 14:48
  Advertised as a meal delivery service during the podcast.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 They talk about releasing the Epstein file and this thing is locked in Congress and none of the Republicans are going to vote for it. The moment it appears, oh [ __ ] it's going to happen, suddenly it's a vote. It goes to the Senate that night. It is voted on by unanimous consent and immediately goes and that's when you This is why I think people are cynical about Congress. What it shows is, oh, all of that uh uh reticence was nonsense. You had the ability to do this whenever you wanted to. You had the votes to do it. It took 30 seconds.

0:40 And now you're all claiming. You saw the floor of the house. They're all cheering. Mike, is that the part where you go, are we just putting on a play down here?

0:51 I think it's the part where you decide to run for governor. quite frankly. Hey everybody, welcome to the weekly show podcast with John Stewart. My name is actually John Stewart, so it is appropriate that I'm the one who is addressing you right now. It is Wednesday. It is November 19th. The world's still celebrating the shock vote from the House and the Senate, which shows that when they want to get something done, they can do it immediately because uh all of their uh proaricating and all of the stalling and all those things was absolute [ __ ] They could have done this thing from the start and gotten it out there instead of all the rigomearroll about getting the Epstein uh files released and it is on to the desk of uh President Donald Trump who I'm sure will sign it and uh and we will have access to all of the information nonredacted unclassified except obviously protecting uh victim's names and and we will finally get to the

1:50 bottom of all this. I of course am lying and being uh sarcastic but uh you know we will see what we see. But on the other side on the other front uh there have been developments electorally this past November that I think uh many people were excited about. And we're very fortunate today to have uh two of the leaders of that electoral charge and uh two two governor elects that are going to be joining us to discuss not just uh their road to becoming governors, but the fact that they're both, oddly enough, really connected in a variety of kind of different and interesting and and and cool ways. So, we're just going to get right to them.

2:36 Uh here they are. And so we have as our guest today very exciting uh uh tremendous uh election victories uh this November by margins that uh in the words of Donald Trump have never been seen before in this country. Ladies and gentlemen, Governor elect Mikey Cheryl, Democrat New Jersey Governor Elect Abigail Spanberger, Democrat Virginia governors elect, how are you?

3:06 Hello. Congratulations. Now we spoke earlier uh governor elect is the proper title but when you become governor and this is particularly for Virginia uh you will be referred to as your excellency

3:22 her her excellency for the first time in Virginia history actually you are you're the first how is and Mikey you're only the second woman to ever be elected in in New Jersey

3:33 right um yeah and I think that her excellency might be solely in Virginia. I am I am quite sure that will not be the title here in New Jersey. Uh but yeah, it's really exciting. Um and the first woman veteran ever elected as governor in the United States. So, um exciting. Yeah.

3:54 You know, you both come here's the thing people don't realize. You know, you're sort of bonded by this uh barrier breaking achievement. You become governors in states as you said. Uh Mikey only the second Christy Whitman. You're the first Democrat.

4:10 Abigail Virginia's never uh had that, but people might not realize your stories line up really really uh uh in an interesting fashion. You're both in sort of the national security state. Mikey, you're a veteran. Abigail, you were CIA.

4:28 Yeah. uh you come to Congress in in 2018 and not to get too together. You room together uh in Congress and and this is where it gets a little bit uh weird. Mikey, [clears throat] you were born in Virginia and now you're the governor of New Jersey. Abigail, you lived in New Jersey and now you're the This is like one of those Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy.

4:54 I know. and Kennedy had a secretary named Lincoln. Uh, how did you find each other for the first time? When was that?

5:04 Um, well, the stars aligned obviously uh with all the connections, but um we were both running in that 2018 cycle and there were groups of people that were supporting veterans that were especially, you know, supporting women veterans. That was that class uh as as you know with Alyssa Slackin and Chrissy Hulahan, Elaine Lauria. Um, we had gotten to know each other even before we got into Congress and because we come from that background of of service, um, we were sort of team players, you know, we we worked with a group and while there were a lot of people in Congress that sort of felt like they were an army of one, I remember one of my uh, New members of the New Jersey delegation, I said, "Are we going to come together and and make, you know, do this?" And they said, "Oh, I got to be honest with you. It's every man for himself.

5:56 By the way, feel free to name all names, including nicknames at any point that that you want to that that you want to do that. But is that had you known each other before you both made the decisions, Abigail, to

6:10 to run for Congress or this through the process of because people forget the 2018 election was the oh my god, what have we done election. Trump had won in 2016 and uh the American public at that time thought, "Oh, uh I didn't think it was going to go this way." And so the congressional election in 2018 was a real barn burner for Democrats.

6:36 That's right. And we we had met each other along the campaign trail like like Mikey said, because we would do events together as uh predominantly as as folks with national security backgrounds, but also as women with national security backgrounds. Um and in we had one other connection which is that Mikey's sister uh one one of her two sisters I also have two sisters was my constituent uh in in my first election. She later moved out of state but for a time I I claimed her. So I would get updates on Mikey's race as well even from her sister who I would see frequently

7:10 very clearly. Let's point out Mikey's sister did not move out of your district because of it. Not because you she I'm sure it was a different situation. It was a life situation. It had nothing to do with the representation.

7:25 She She hosted She hosted canvas kickoffs for me. She was a super volunteer. Oh my gosh. I called her. I'm like running this hard I thought very difficult campaign in a Trump district as Abigail was. And I called my sister up one morning. I had like five minutes and I was like, "Hey." She's like, "I can't talk. I can't talk. You know, I I'm about to launch a canvas for Abigail Spanberger." And I'm like, "Well, yeah. you know, I'm I'm running too. I'm running too.

7:52 She was very pleased. And you knew her already. When you're in Washington and you're in these freshman classes,

7:57 how do they do the roommate selection? Because it is, you know, generally especially freshman members will will try and team up two, four, whatever to to an apartment. Is that something that is there a an orientation that takes place where they bring in the freshman congress people and say you're going to need an apartment or a pediat or something along those lines. How did how did you guys end up going okay are you with anybody on this project? Let's partner up.

8:27 Well, I I I'll start Mikey. We were uh so Lois Frankle from Florida. I'll name names because she'll be pleased. gonna say

8:35 Lois Lois Lois Frankle from Florida always reaches out to she's very supportive of women candidates and so she creates this this network and then when you get elected Lois says I can help find you an apartment she like has a you know her side activity

8:51 real estate agent to the stars that's nice her side activity is helping people find apartments and so we both went through the lowest connection initially I was very determined to sort of you know find my own way and and not leverage Lois. And and then I failed in finding an apartment. So I went to Lois and um and we ended up Mikey and I were both actually on the same floor within the same apartment building. So we were initially sort of like fake roommates and we would end up walking to the office together and back and um and we were fake roommates for a bit and then from there we decided to to you know be real roommates and and and Was it Mikey? Was it a Was it a nerve-wracking conversation? Like, I really want to ask Abigail, but I'm nervous she's not going to want a room together. Was it anything? Did you just

9:40 No, but it was funny because our I I think our families feel like it was like this they all seem to think that going to Washington was this sort of sorority type situation where we were just taking a break from life and going down there. You know, we would just we would just go down there and get beaten to hell and you'd be working these days and you'd come home and you know, and more than once we're sitting there eating and the one way it was like college is we'd come home and be eating like pickles and peanut butter and nuts or I mean there'd be no food in the house cuz you can't leave it there. It goes it spoils when you're back home and all that, you know, this kind of really like tough days in in the office, if you will. ramen noodles, the whole

10:25 things were not always going real smoothly in Congress. And um and then you'd get home and and you'd be like, "Oh god, I'm exhausted." And you know, I I know my husband Jason would be like, "Yeah, whatever." Like, "Oh, you're exhausted from hanging out and you know, no kids, nothing, you know, so it was always a little bit."

10:44 My my husband Adam said, "Make sure you mention the potato." which is uh kind of shorthand for the way that I mean we would go to the office, you know, we were working all the time and so we never had any good food and so occasionally when my husband Adam would come he was like why is there a single potato in your refrigerator and it was like there for for months and months and months and we would have these terrible conversations about like how like how many years expired does string cheese need to be before you shouldn't eat it.

11:13 Dear God, I know it's actually embarrassing. We probably shouldn't admit to this. Mikey.

11:17 All right. TMI and Abigail. Come on. This is circle of trust stuff. No more. No more.

11:21 No. No. No. It's you. You two moved into you moved into Animal House. Well, yeah. We had to run for governor to like, you know, lift ourselves up to be her excellency. No more eating raw potatoes, I guess.

11:34 I don't know. But it is interesting to hear. It's it's the type of thing that you don't hear that much about in terms of, you know, freshman congress people and there's all the pomp and circumstance and the news organizations, but underneath it all, there really is a disorienting process of getting involved in government. And it's it's interesting to me in that, you know, look, you guys both come from Mikey a a military background, Abigail security state background, and now you're thrust into this really dysfunctional world. You're used to mission. You're used to order. You're used to chain of command.

12:13 Showing up on time. Showing up on time. What was it like learning the sorts of this is how we do it down here and thinking to yourselves, well that's not how they should do it anywhere. That seems ass backwards. What What was that experience like? I think that's probably what the most disoriented thing was. Um to get down there, to have come in on this blue wave, to have built these campaigns much like we just did from the ground up, speaking to, you know, as many people as we could because we were flipping Trump districts. So it wasn't just about

12:49 both of you in in districts that really had not had a Democrat in maybe decades.

12:54 Right. Right. And so you were building something. you were talking to people and convincing them and connecting with them that you had a better path forward

13:03 and um and then we arrived in Congress and and it really was I thought with this sense of okay we've cracked the code we should now be in the majority in the House of Representatives for ever like this this should really be lasting and here's you know here's what we saw and here's how we did it and it was um striking to en encounter an organization that had a lot of inertia that where people weren't that interested in changing that that they wanted to keep doing what they were doing and I would say that's you know part of the reason why in the house we were um out of power in only two terms because we I think focused on many of the right things but we didn't deliver on things that I think would have been easy wins and and that was the fight Abigail and I engaged in constantly like let's not send a messaging bill let's effective ly pass a piece of legislation and the disconnect between, you know,

14:01 oh, the people want to see us sending a message and and, you know, Abigail and I having been on the ground saying, no, if if we don't deliver, if we don't actually deliver for people, nobody in my district wants a message. They want flood prevention, that kind of thing.

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15:46 All the sugar, sure. I'm sure it's fine. There's nothing wrong with that." 97% unheard of. Eatsmart at factormeals.com/tws50 off and use code TWWS50 off to get 50% off your first box, plus free breakfast for a year. Free breakfast for a year. What? That's code TWWS50 off at factormeals.com for 50% off your first box plus free breakfast for a year. Get delicious ready to eat meals delivered with Factor. Offer only valid for new Factor customers with code and qualifying autorenewing subscription purchase. It's such an interesting place because it so functions on seniority and you know the difficulties of and here you guys are you're coming in as younger people. It's your first experience in the House and you've got all the energy that the voters have instilled in your campaigns and in this movement and it must have been to have worked that hard and you feel like you get to this place where you're going to

16:53 be able to fulfill that and see that the very structure of it is built to restrain that Abigail that that had to have been you know

17:04 it it is it it flies in the face of all of my natural tendencies. Um, but and this is what I will say speaking very truthfully about the realities of Congress, but also in case there's anyone who's thinking about running for Congress listening, um, even though that is how it functions, you don't have to function within that frame. And so I, you know, I remember when we first got there and I I represented a district that was very heavily uh public servants, retired police officers, retired federal employees, and there was this little provision in social security law that basically stole people's uh as I use my aggressive language, stole people's social security benefits. So if you had pursued a career, firefighters, police officers, teachers, um you know, some postal employees, federal workers, if you had pursued a career in, you know, public service, but also throughout your working years worked a

17:56 job where you also um it was private sector. when you retired because you might have had some in many cases very nominal public sector pension, you saw your social security benefits reduced in in some cases I mean thousands upon thousands of dollars. Wow.

18:14 And so people were headed off into their retirement get their first social security check and it's fractions of what they thought they would get. Right.

18:23 And this this law went into place back in the 80s. I get to Congress saying, "Oh my goodness, okay, we're gonna we're going to fix this." Everyone agrees. for a time. It was the most sponsored bill. Um, and I co-led it with a Republican from Louisiana,

18:35 a bipartisan co-sponsored bill. Fantastic. And everybody said, "Oh, but but if we're going to do this, we like if we're going to repeal this ter these terrible two provisions." And where it was really horrible is if someone lost their spouse. They themselves had worked throughout their career.

18:52 They lost a spouse who had been a, you know, a firefighter, police officer. They saw their own as the surviving spouse, their social security benefits. I mean, people were thrust into poverty. People lost their homes. It's an outrage. But frankly, part of the problem is so many, you know, there more than 3.2 million people who saw change the day we ultimately, I'll get to the finish of it, pass this bill, but you know, people would say, "Oh, yeah. I support it. I would support it." They'd co-sponsor it. we'd have all these co-sponsors, but then year after year, we couldn't actually get um leadership, Democratic or Republican leadership, to bring it for a vote.

19:27 People have to, you don't realize like people can co-sponsor, they can do whatever they want, but if it doesn't go through leadership because leadership controls and in the House especially, which is a zero- sum game, whoever controls it, has full control of committees, of what gets to be voted on, of any of those different situations. So, you can have all that and and they just hold on to it. And on the Democratic side of the aisle, the push back we would get would be like, well, we need to do, you know, a general reform. Let's save this for a larger reform because it, you know, frankly, like giving benefits back to people who earned it seemed like the sweetener. And then on the Republican side of the aisle, it was, oh, this will cost so much. Well, it will cost so much because we're actually giving people their earned benefit,

20:08 right? Like, oh, they cost so much because we're fixing a problem that occurred within the money they've already given to the government. And I think one of the most horrifying things is this. When the CBO scored it, they actually said that we would see cost reductions in some of the safety net programs because suddenly seniors who had worked their lives in service to their community or their country would no longer be eligible for food stamps or, you know, SNAP programs and safety net programs. Long story short, um we ended up doing a discharge petition because we couldn't get leadership to bring it. We forced the hands of you know leadership in the house.

20:45 People familiar with discharge petitions now because of everybody everybody knows the title now.

20:50 Before I used to have to reference um legally blonde too where that's where discharge petition that's where we all learn.

20:57 It's the schoolhouse rock of the new generation. So we got it through. We we got it signed into law. Uh you know it was what it was the last bill signing that President Biden did uh before he left. And it's I mean changed lives everywhere across Virginia. Um you know and I got letters from across the country.

21:16 But think about that. You're talking about six years. You go in there and you do that and when you just said okay it was the last bill President Biden signed. Well that's six years after you guys had come into Congress and wanted that. And Mikey that's and this is great because I think it encapsulates all of the frustration at times that is the congressional body. So much of it is Republicans like in high school going doortodoor and going would you sponsor me? I'm doing a danceopathon and I'd like and you have to gain you have a very particular thing that you want to do right that's going to fix a problem and and then you get all the signatures and you get the bill you want it to be and then leadership will tell you well actually we're playing this different game where we're trying to you know use leverage for those things to get this other thing. It is that something that happened to you, Mikey, as well?

22:15 It it did. And [gasps] I think, you know, in some cases, you get it right. It's really trying to get the the voting block you need to get stuff forward and what the deal is. I think the problem for people like uh myself and and and Abigail, she just charted out was this sense that we run tough races. We And when you run tough races, you win in in places that don't have Democratic votes by connecting with people, by saying, "Look, you know, I'm a Democrat. I'm a proud Democrat and I'm that, you know, I'm a proud Democrat because I deliver for working people and here's what I'm going to do." And and I will tell you after years of serving in my district, you know, we just I would win with about a quarter of registered Republicans and stuff like that because of delivering effective government to people. And you do see sometimes in Washington there becomes this there is sort of this disconnect and

23:16 there is I remember you know something that I think would would blow our minds often and we we've talked about it is we were told there was this procedural motion that they always wanted you to just vote with the party on and yet the votes they would be gotcha votes from Republicans and they'd say well just tell your constituents that it's a procedural vote. I'm like, "Okay, I'm gonna go tell my constituents after I vote against something they really, really want." Don't worry about it, guys. It's just a procedural vote.

23:42 Like disconnect. And And I think you know because you've been there. I mean, you fought ton for 911 funding for the victim compensation fund. You fought for the PAC Act. So, you see how hard it can be. But to Abigail's point, you see how good

23:59 leadership, how people focused, people who are elected, who are focused on the people they serve can get stuff accomplished in a powerful way. It just um it feels like in too many cases that becomes very difficult with the leadership in place with a a sort of leadership that's disconnected from the people. And certainly with Mike Johnson, I mean that is a man who is not serving the people. He is serving Donald Trump. Sure. And

24:25 so with that kind of leadership, you get nothing done. I also think it's what I viewed from being down there is that Washington works on a different currency system than the rest of the the country does. It's it's almost as though you've gone into the Euro zone when you know when you go into DC because as as you just said so there's sort of this idea of direct and I'll give you an example. So when we talked about like uh packed act or zedroga zroga was the 9/11 first responders bill and democratic leadership and I don't think you guys were were there yet. This was earlier this was probably 2015

25:05 that was early we were just getting money for the victim compensation fund in our

25:08 that's right. Okay. So that was that was the 2019 vote I think. Yeah. Yeah. So, we would go down there and we'd say, "These people are dying of canc" and the Congress people would say, and absolutely right, but we can't go and put it on the floor through regular order. We're going to try and sneak it into the omnibus bill

25:28 like transportation, which passes every year, or uh the NDAA, which is the uh defense.

25:35 Yeah. National defense authorization. That's right. Do my best work. Yes. we're we're just going to jam it in there. And then in the Senate, Mitch McConnell would say, "Actually, I want an export tax on petroleum, so I'm going to remove your" And it was all it was all a jigsaw puzzle that they were working on, but none of it to to your point. I I guess when you were down there, did you see a system that was so out of touch and and my frustration with it was it didn't have to be that that that the rules that they would tell you are, you know, sacrosanked, they broke all the time.

26:20 Yeah. And I saw Abigail's eyes just literally like rolled back into her head like But what what you begin to realize is, oh, this is all [ __ ] They're pretending that these things are sacrosanked when they manipulate them all the time and they could actually do it to the good. And I think one of the challenges is that you know then when you particularly in the House because there's just so many members when you're kind of withholding information and when votes come up so quickly it it becomes at times a disorienting process for newer members and and or for members who are endeavoring to really be effective and do things. You know, I I in the in the early days of COVID, I was sitting on the floor with with Chip Roy who uh you know, for anyone who's unaware, Chip Roy is a you know, right right winger of the the sort of you know, best example,

27:16 but a right-winger is rightwing like even beyond most right-wingers are like won't sit on the floor with Chip Roy like it's too hard.

27:23 No, I I it was sometimes uh just me actually at times. And now the similarities, you you try to find similarities. This is how you govern. Uh Chip Roy and I are both UVA grads. We both happen to have the same birthday. Um and Wow. Yeah. And in 2019, UVA was the national champions in basketball. So, you know, the year a year later, basketball season's, you know, not really happening because of COVID. We're sitting on the floor. We're talking. And this was when there was story after story of uh you know all these stock trades in the early days of COVID. Yeah.

27:59 And so he and I are sitting there and we're saying this is kind of outrageous and and whether you think that people are intentionally trying to get rich off of information or not kind of doesn't matter. The fact that everybody thinks and it's being reported as though it's fact that you're in this meeting and then you buy this stock therefore it's corruption. Like let's put an end to it. So we did something that you know not And Mikey can speak to this as well. Like not all the time do people just write their own bills. I always wrote my own bills, but a lot of people think you got to go to committee to like, "Mother, may I get my bill?" We said, "This is wrong. Let's write a bill to fix it." We consulted with all these sort of good governance groups that were a little bit uh kind of surprised by the combination of of of me with Chip Roy, you know, and and and in fact, we really went from a

28:46 place where people would be deeply offended, you know, and I would have many members tell me you're implying that members of Congress are correct to which I I would say it actually doesn't matter like whether it's true or not. if the public perceives it, it's on us to change that perception, right?

29:04 Um and and it's amazing because in a short period of time, what went from a bill that was, you know, broadly seen as this, you know, this the a Democrat and Republican sort of pushing up against tradition in their parties has a a really broad coalition. When I left Congress to run for governor, Seth Magaziner uh was the Democrat who's now continued to work with CHIP on this bill. and it's it's really got some legs to it and you know we'll see because so far a lot of people are saying yes they want it to be brought for a vote. Um but but it's it's interesting to to just see the way that to Mikey's point when you're being responsive to the things that you're hearing on the ground and what the American people or your constituents want.

29:44 But you got to hear them. You you know like and so everyone's surprised. Oh wow, this is really popular. Yeah, of course it's popular because people deserve to trust their government and we should take proactive actions, right, to help them do that.

29:57 Listen, a great example, Mikey, you you can speak to that. You know, they talk about releasing the Epstein files and this thing is locked in Congress and nobody is going to vote. None of the Republicans are going to vote for it. We're not going to bring it to the floor. There's this huge discharge petition and they get the 217 and then there's a representative in a special election from Arizona. She She's the 218th and that's all they need. And then they can force the vote. Great. I'm not going to swear her in. We're just going to keep this thing. Mike Johnson holds it back. Everything goes. This is the most controversial. How dare they? The Senate. It'll die in the Senate. There's nothing that can be done. And the moment it appears, oh [ __ ] it's going to happen. Suddenly, it's a vote. It's 434 to1. It goes to the Senate that night.

30:46 it is voted on by unanimous consent and immediately goes and that's when you This is why I think people are cynical about Congress. What it shows is oh all of that uh uh reticence was nonsense. You had the ability to do this whenever you wanted to. You had the votes to do it. It took 30 seconds and now you're all claiming you saw the floor of the house. They're all cheering. Hey, it's what we thought. It was exactly that way with Pact. Exactly that way with Zero. Mike, is that the part where you go, are we just putting on a play down here?

31:30 I think it's the part where you decide to run for governor, quite frankly, you know, when you start to say, look, because you're right, you could use your power for if you were just relentlessly focused on serving the public,

31:43 right? It would not only be, you know, using your powers for good, it would be very powerful.

31:49 And the people are thirsty for it. Really thirsty. And yet people, I think, get so caught up in in these like arcane weird things. And we can't do it this way, and we have to do it that way. And the only thing we can do to leverage power is to to do it with only Democrats or only Republicans, and we can't do this. And so I I'll tell you, you know, I got on the ground here and and I'm running hard and I can't tell you how many times as I was running, people said, "Mikey, everybody says that. Oh, I'm going to do this. Oh, everybody says that." And so then I'm like, "Okay, look, I'm going to hold me accountable. On day one, I'm going to declare a freeze on utility rate hikes." So here we are. Like, you know, brass tax. I I'll be very clear so you don't think I'm making something up or speaking in generalities or, you know, coming up with a 10-year plan. I'm gonna do it. And immediately even

32:41 members of my own party are like, "Oh, I don't think you can do that." I'm like, "I know exactly." People kept saying, "How are you going to do that?" I go, "Here's how I'm going to do it." And they're, "Can you do it?" I go, "I know exactly how I'm going to do it." And and yet, even in my own party, it's like, "Oh, I don't know. I don't think so. I, you know, let's write a strongly worded letter." is the fear. Oh yeah, the Chuck Schumer method works very very well. Ladies and gentlemen, I I am 62 years old. Uh going on 63. And I don't know if you're familiar with this, but gravity is a bastard.

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34:41 Is the fear from the party that like I know those those votes where you say like, oh, they're procedural votes, but they're there to just create the ads. And by the way, the ads. Thank god the election is over. Mikey, I live in New Jersey.

34:57 Uhhuh. I I wanted to jump out a window. It Yeah, it it's just you wanted to jump. They were about me.

35:05 That's a good That's a good point. By by the way, what does that feel like? Because it even goes look like the stock trade thing Abigail was talking about like my guess is you were supporting that but

35:16 yes, they caught you. They caught you in that and it was really hard I'm assuming to answer for.

35:21 I mean sh you know I mean again look uh you know there's no crying on the odd here like shame on me for getting caught on some ad that had come out right before I go on a program and not being prepared to talk about it better. Right. Right.

35:34 Um but that is tough. You know to Abigail's point I think it's really important it's not just impropriety it's the appearance of impropriety. Right. So, um, my husband and I have divested of all individual stocks. We don't trade individual stocks. We don't, um, you know, we've gone above and beyond ethics. We put out, and this is really cringey when you're doing it as a C. We put out all of our finances. I mean, you can track to the dollar. And there is no more transparent candidate probably in the history of New Jersey than, you know, what we've put out on all of our information. And so, um, you do all that to to really be responsive, but again, sometimes I I was just I feel like the New York Post owes me some money because I I sold so many papers for them. I mean, they were every single day. I think my favorite somebody framed it and gave it to me on election night. There was a a title that said, um,

36:28 Mikey Cheryl's pulling five points ahead. Why that's really really bad for her.

36:35 I mean, it was every day. Well, are there ads that do get that do get under your skin like Abigail or or M, you know, was there an ad that ran that you thought

36:46 that is so uh either asinine or outrageous or close to the bone like were there ads that you feared or ads that you just got angry at?

36:58 I certainly reacted differently like when you're running your first race and and you know Mikey and I had no political background. we weren't necessarily um didn't know what to expect. And so when the first television ad comes out and uh it's just like you're the worst person in the world, it it certainly impacted me a lot more back then. Um and it impacts I will say my my mother um substantially

37:27 really um and to this day by by this election the ads didn't really bother me. I would usually watch them first. This this is my coping mechanism. I'd watch an ad first with no sound on um to sort of

37:39 to see what you look like in black and white to get the visuals of how spooky I look. Um there was there was one ad they did I guess in in my last congressional race where they they sort of superimposed my head on Nancy Pelosy's body and they I think they called me like Nancy Pelosi Jr. or something. And I I looked at that one I was like wow I look really good in that color blue. Who knew? Um, but they really impact my mother most especially because I mean and so she she needs to talk through all the reasons why it's not correct. Um, and

38:12 and then with my with my kids in my first election, there was an ad where they basically kind of tried to call me a terrorist. And you know, my my oldest daughter, I guess she was fourth grade at the time, and she said that, you know, kids on the playground for her and for my first grader, would just ask like, "Is your mom a terrorist?" And they would say, "No." And then the kids would sort of run away. But I think,

38:38 well, now we know who the ads are effective for. Fourth graders are really the level. Mikey, did you have that as well? just adds that, you know, ripple the the effects ripple through the family or or ones that you thought that one's going to be a problem for me.

38:52 You never like to see yourself looking like an idiot. I mean, that's just kind of I think universal. So, you don't love different missteps or you're like, "Oh, damn it." But, um, to Abigail's point that the people you're most worried about, oddly, are not your constituents, but your family members, right? your kids, your husband, you know, you just don't want them to face any retribution or blowback because of what you do. But, you know, I think our kids are probably pretty resilient at this point. My son was down the shore and he was really thrilled to report um because my opponent was having um these airplane banner ads.

39:30 Oh god, he's hitting him up on the shore. God, one of them said, "I I I mean, you know, I I can't throw stones from this glass house. We had our own airplane ads, but nevertheless, um it said Mikey Cheryl equals Phil Murphy 2.0, which I I didn't think was super effective, but my son was thrilled. He was like, "Oh my god, mom, I saw your name." Like, I tried to get a picture. It was on an airplane. It was awesome. So, uh you know, he was quite pleased. But, um

40:00 he didn't realize that was in quotes a negative ad. He thought it was kind of exciting.

40:06 Yeah. Yeah, he was really excited. But I think the key thing um for the ads and stuff was to titrate here in New Jersey. Um there, you know, I think it's it's understood here that you need to be swinging in an election. I've had people who work around the country that, you know, will say, "I think we're going to have to go negative." And I'm like, "Yep,

40:28 hell yeah. I I call it just pointing out the truth, but let's go." Um the the people and when I'm not doing that, there are some races I run where, you know, we don't have to do that. We can just present our case. Um and people tell me, you know, hey, you're not running hard enough. People here don't think you're running hard enough. So the ads do they're like they come out swing. The thing that bugs me is when they're they're just so not true. So, for example, I was in one interview um saying uh in the Dino Badala show, I was saying um you know, Democrats can't say this and and sort of charting out how um oh, you know, electricity cost, etc. And they clipped,

41:10 right? If you're a good person, I remember this. Yeah. Right. I'm not saying it again, notice, because I don't

41:15 No, no, no. I'll say it. What what the ad was was uh Mikey was saying in the uh guise of what Democrats can't say is uh it's more expensive for this uh renewable energy, but if you're a good person, you'll do it. And they took that as you were saying to people if you're a good person, you'll pay more.

41:34 And I was saying the opposite. Yes. I was saying, you know, we shouldn't be saying this now. We can drive down costs in this way.

41:40 So that clip which was just like not true. that was bugging me, you know, and and and it was important.

41:49 It'll eat at you. Yeah. Yeah. So, and but you can't, you know, it is, you know, you know, if you're explaining, you're losing. So, I couldn't just go up on So, I wasn't going to put a million dollars of me direct to camera saying that wasn't actually what I was saying.

42:02 Shut up. You're a jerk. Yeah, that's, you know, that's not fair. Do Do you guys Is there a sense? Because the ads, again, it's sort of the conventional thinking is the ubiquity of the ads or how that goes. that's going to dictate who wins. Abigail, they ran, you know, the they them uh she's for they them for you. It didn't work uh on on your campaign in the way that people say it worked on Kamla's campaign. But

42:27 what is the thing? Because as a as a spectator in New Jersey watching the ads and all those things, like his ads, they were good. He he did a good job misrepresenting or doing whatever it was that he did. And then the election comes and you blew his doors off in a way that I mean Murphy only beat Chidarelli who was uh Mikey's opponent by I think two or three points last time. Mikey beat him by 13 points.

42:55 We like to round up to 14. Son of a [ __ ] You know what? I'm gonna get a plane in a banner and fly that on the Jersey Shore this year. Hey Jack, how's that 14 points taste? Uh Abigail, same.

43:08 Yep. So are are we missing the point with the people on the ground as to how things are connecting and what is the importance because I know that those ads are the thing that dominate. What are the keys in your mind Abigail that candidates do that actually make a difference?

43:27 Well and I I think it it can change at different levels of depending upon the size of the electorate. Certainly running statewide is is different in many ways than running in a congressional race. You can't touch everybody in the way you can congressionally.

43:39 Exactly. Right. Exactly. And what I what I believe to be the case is people want to have a sense of who you are as a person, as a candidate. And some of that comes from television ads, and some of that comes from interviews, and some of that comes from just engagement, but they also want to feel like invited into a campaign. I think and I'll speak for both of our campaigns and what I found so interesting is you I would talk to people who are always worried about Mikey's race and I would always say you don't need to worry about Mikey. Mikey's going to win. She's going to win her primary. She's going to win the election. I have no doubts. Like relax.

44:13 Because I think that what people were missing is Abigail's talking to my mom. I think

44:20 you guys are just your whole job is just calming down each other's moms. Well, yeah. when our when our sisters don't do it well enough then we have to step in right um but you know it's it's it's about having that engagement and I think what what we did both very well and I'll just kind of speak a little bit more detail about my race is we uh we built out a a a field organization very very expansively all across Virginia where I had people on the ground who were working for the campaign who were getting together who were creating community um in the end I didn't have a primary so I had the advantage of more time. So, you know, in the spring we were doing petition parties where we were getting people together, they were coming together around something that they care about, which might which in this case was the election. Um, and then those people continued on through the summer knocking doors and, you know, and

45:16 going to farmers markets and and and getting out and delivering signs. And you know, importantly, while a lot of these uh negative ads were out there, I always thought it was extraordinarily important to have positive bio what am I for ads because you can't just be about, you know, vote against this person.

45:35 Right. Right. Um and you know, we're trying to deliver an economic message on affordability. And I'll take credit for this whether I don't I don't know if in the end my the people who made my television ads liked it or not, but I was like, why don't I just say like there's so much more to be done than you can say in a 30- secondond ad. and can I put the website up? You know, and everyone's like, "Oh, I don't know that anybody will go to the website." I'm like, "Well, if they don't, they don't, but at least they know, you know." And so then we would say like, "This is what I'm for. I'm for a more affordable Virginia. Go to affordableverirginia.com to see my plans." And and we did a lot of bio work as well, so that people understood who I am as a person, why I'm running. Um, and and what was interesting is the the ways that people would create threads of personal connections, whether, you know,

46:19 it's because they're also parents of school-aged kids or because um they too had grown up. My my father was career law enforcement, my mother was a nurse. And so I would have people say like, "Oh, my mom was a nurse, too. I I know what that means, right?" and these threads of places where people are recognizing that that there is some commonality in this world that at times feels so chaotic and so disconnected and people are at each other's throats to to have those threads and also know like oh that's the woman who says she wants to work really hard you know to do right by me and my community and the people I love. Um, and so it's it's kind of all of those pieces that essentially making it so that nobody could go anywhere without kind of hearing my name or knowing a little bit about what it is that I might be for.

47:05 The reason I bring it up is because we talked about the disconnect between kind of the Washington establishment and the leadership of the party and the needs of the people that they purport to represent. And that dissatisfaction and disconnect, I think, is what in many ways gave space for somebody like Donald Trump to demagogue and to get into power. But the other thing is the disconnect between the national narrative about what people like yourselves represent for the Democratic. So the everything you heard was what is is the Democratic Party mom Donnie and socialism or is it Mikey Cheryl and Abigail Spanberger and the national security mom? What is it?

47:41 Who are also really boring, right? We would always get who oh and boring and not mom Donnie and can't do that. And what you realize is on the ground, it's none of that [ __ ]

47:52 Yeah. It's the story of an individual connecting on different levels in many different ways. And the narratives that were fed at a national level through the media or through party leadership are so disconnected and and Mikey, [clears throat] did you feel that as well in yours?

48:11 Oh, certainly. I, you know, I finally um was in one interview uh with um someone who who's who who asked me for like the 12th time in in interviews and stuff, you know, what is it? You or is it mom Donnie or what do people think about mom Donnie or what are you going to do about him?

48:28 Who's the leader? And I just looked at him and I said, you know what, you're the only person asking me about mom Donnie right now. You know, I I don't go around to Matuchin and people are like, "Oh my gosh, Mikey, the number one thing on my mind today as I woke up was, "What do you think about Montani?" It was, you know, it was, "How are you going to lower my utility cost?" Right. You know, I never heard it on the ground.

48:50 Which, by the way, is what he ran on. Right. You may have different prescriptions, but that's what he ran on.

48:55 Right. Exactly. And so what we need to do as Democrats is field candidates who are connecting with people. That's a um and and that's what I think you know everyone in the Democratic party just did right now. But then B and this is also critically important is then we need to govern and we are having a conversation

49:19 govern right govern in the Democratic party about I mean the best thing I can do now it you know I could go around the nation talking about my field program or Latino voters or white working-class men and how I overperform there or how I get young people out or my social media program that's new. I could chart all this out for everyone, but the the best thing I could do for anybody, any Democrat in this country, is to govern the state of New Jersey in an incredibly effective way and find a pathway forward when we have a president of the United States that is trying to destroy the economy of our country and finding ways to deliver for people. That is the very best thing I can do in this position. And we're having a conversation in the Democratic party with our campaigns about exactly how to deliver for people. And the Republican party is just 100% doing whatever the hell Trump decides that

50:15 day. Should we release the Epstein files? Should we not? What you know, whatever you say, boss. Right. we've gotten to now. So, we see the dysfunction of the House and how it's removed from the sort of direct governance of of getting things done for people and how they overcomplicate what should be much simpler uh you know and direct help for uh their voters and that frustration leading you guys to step away and and get the top executive job. What I think some people might not realize is the top executive job is not the same in every state. New Jersey has a very different prescription for even what the budget can be. The the New Jersey governor is very powerful, has, you know, veto power over a lot of different things. Abigail, you're in a different situation. I think in Virginia, the the governor, you you can only serve one you can't serve consecutive terms. You've only got one.

51:07 And even within that term, it'll be two years before you can put your budget forth. Is Is that correct?

51:14 That's right. We're the only state in the country that has a one-term governor limit. Um, you can serve non-consecutive terms, but but nobody's done it for decades. Um, and and I'll be coming in on our current governor's budget. And we can move forward with our own budget amendments, but um, but the reality is that that yes, we're going to be kind of adjusting. I'll be in the middle of my term when I put forth my own budget and then I'll be leaving when I'm handing a budget off uh to somebody new. And just yesterday, I was in a a large meeting briefing for the um House of Delegates Appropriations Committee looking at the kind of historical uh revenue coming in spending in the general fund and and frankly and they were very clearly outlining because of so many of the dollars that came in because of COVID that you know Mikey and I voted for, the state has had a lot of money to move into different places spending more than

52:12 we have been bringing in for a number of years. And so, you know, even in in that committee when I was speaking with committee members at the end of a number of presentations, I said, you know, I think everybody saw in page 30 of that presentation that this is going to be, you know, next year, this is going to be the year when our our spending can't outpace what we're actually bringing in in revenue because those historical federal dollars that emanated out of the pandemic are no longer there. So there's going to be and and we're so impacted

52:41 and also you'll be penalized you know and and this is happening in Jersey as well. I mean Mikey Trump has removed projects you know he is penalizing almost entirely blue states but have you looked at Mike the levers of governance that that you can use to more effectively and directly do the types of things that you're talking about? Is that a practice that you guys are already taking part of?

53:06 Yeah. So I don't this may come as a surprise to people because we we run you know I've traditionally run these knockdown dragout fights here in New Jersey for for votes and campaigns and issues but I actually the only reason I do that is so I can govern so I can actually deliver

53:24 get to that place get in that office so I can get to that place and so we've been at it for over a year now meeting with so many different groups across the state whether it's you know how to revitalize Atlantic city, what it's going to take to build transportation across the state, where where those pockets of innovation are that we've got to overinvest in. But on layered into all of this is the fact that New Jersey, a state that gives $70 billion dollar more to the federal government than we get back, we are now seeing massive cuts to title one school funding, to SNAP programs, to Medicare, to the Affordable Care Act subsidies. So at every level, the federal government is failing to run programs that they are on the hook for traditionally. So what this is is sort of a both end. Trenton needs to function much more effectively, right? the red tape and permitting issues are just layered upon layered upon and people

54:23 have kicked the can down the road whether it's the state health benefits plan or um some of the you know flooding problems that we have in um on the Whippony River right so the the can has been kicked it's time now to address that and and really the thing that I have been most I I guess excited by because if you live in New Jersey you have this kind of sense that that there's all kinds of entrenched interest in Trenton and you can go up against them but you're just going to fail miserably

54:55 and corruption I mean flat out you live in New Jersey you understand the level of corruption that's been endemic here since the beginning

55:03 right and so to get down to Trenton and to almost have several people come to me um with this sense of like I'm so excited to finally have somebody that's willing to take on the hard fights you know to have a meeting with with people that you know, you kind of lay out like this is going to be rough, guys. We've got like some problems we've got to cut through. We've got entrenched interest that we've got to deal with. We've got, you know, can that's been kicked down the road. We got pension debt, etc. And we've got all these cutbacks at the federal level and we've got to deal with that. and to have them actually be excited that there's somebody that wants to take this on a and help navigate this and and a leadership that's going to take it on and not say, "Oh, let's just duck our heads and hope it it happens on somebody else's watch." That was the most exciting thing I saw was that, hey,

55:59 everybody is ready to tackle hard problems that have have not been addressed for decades here. Have you guys have either of you looked into, you know, Mikey, you mentioned New Jersey gives $70 billion more to the federal government than it gets back. Meanwhile, they're cutting, you know, different transportation projects and those things. And Abigail, I don't know what uh Virginia's, you know, net payments to the federal government are versus what they get back. I do know that uh as a state that largely relies on government workers because, you know, so many of them live near Washington DC. I'm sure you guys are suffering through these layoffs that have been occurring uh within the federal government and all kinds of other uh problems associated with it. Is there any thought to how these blue state governors who've been penalized so drastically with uh whether it's ICE enforcement issues or money

56:51 being taken away from uh research or schools or any of those things. what governors can do to level that field. You know, so many have just tried to stay out of Trump's way to avoid it, but it's unavoidable. He's going to do it. So, what are is there anything, Abigail, that you've seen that governors can do?

57:15 I think there's there's a variety of of different things in in some cases. We've seen some states come together for multi-state compacts and and certainly uh we will be heavily heavily impacted by the ramifications of HR1 particularly in the healthcare space. Economically, Virginia is set to be the second most uh financially hurt state in the country in the health care space. Uh our many of our rural hospitals were will close. We've already had three rural health clinics. she's talking about in terms of like Medicaid recisions and things like that where they took money away from and by the way created a fund to help alleviate some of that for Trump voters in rural areas and but will do nothing for those hospitals in urban areas

58:00 and importantly um the yes the cuts will impact safety net hospitals across the board urban areas suburban areas the like um but importantly in a in a state like Virginia where we have I mean you know agriculture is our number one private industry. We are a very rural state in many parts of Virginia. But unfortunately, the parameters and the federal definition that they use for what constitutes rural was meant to get the vote of an Alaska senator. And in fact, the rural hospitals in Virginia that are absolutely rural in who they serve and how they serve them and in distances that people need to go across, you know, through mountains to get to.

58:39 we actually don't even qualify here in Virginia for those dollars um even though we're set to see some of our hospitals close. Um we've already had three rural health clinics announce their closure. So I I I say that because we have seen some states are moving towards some multi-state compacts uh to try and leverage teleaalth you know a variety of different efforts but importantly what I think is also missing is because you can't hide from the numbers anymore. It's how many dollars are not flowing into a state and in a a state like the Commonwealth of Virginia where it's millions upon millions upon millions of dollars pulled back from transportation projects pulled back from research at our many many public universities and private universities.

59:28 Its impacts on healthare are they trying to force you into austerity plans? Is is the idea here is Trump in any way trying to leverage these blue states to get governors into austerity stances so that they deliver less for their people? Is is that what's this? Is the strategy here purely punitive or is there an electoral message behind all this? Do either one of you have Mikey, do you have a thought on that?

59:53 Can I give a quick answer on that one? Yeah. Yeah. I honestly think it's a lack of understanding of the basic of economics of how the federal government interplays even that option.

1:00:05 Um I I don't actually know that it's as maniacal as that. I think that people are just like oh like even the way that Medicaid is broken down between, you know, state payments and federal payments. I the the the fact that giving someone access to preventative health care is actually a cost savings

1:00:24 cost benefit. Yeah. Right. Because then they're not rolling into hospitals in an exigent circumstance um where because of Ronald Reagan they will get life stabilizing care. Um I I think it's actually just a total lack of understanding about how the basics of government works and a willingness of Republican legislators and I'll call out the ones in Virginia to vote for a bill that you know rural hospital leadership in their districts known Republicans you know the list goes on and on. It's not a political issue. We're just writing op-ed after op-ed and waving red flags saying danger, danger, danger. This is going to hurt us. And and in fact, some of the communities that will be most hurt by that bill in particular are the ones that are represented by Republicans in Congress.

1:01:12 Though, I will note uh they're also districts that I won on election day. Oh, look at that. You got to throw that in there.

1:01:18 Yeah, that's So, everyone's on notice. At least two of them. I I think what's so hard to understand about what's going on here is that I think we have a president who literally doesn't seem to give a crap about the economy of the United States of America and is solely intent on enriching himself. And and so, you know, you look at like the regulations around technology for the UAE, they throw billions into his crypto account and suddenly they're all lifted. um you're a fossil fuel company, you pay 250 million to his campaign and you get all your regulations lifted. I mean, it is this totally kleptocratic like corrupt administration and and it's really hard and it's I think especially hard maybe for people who come from this lifetime of public service and you know I've taken you I started taking oath to the constitution when I was 18. I deeply believe in this this this to me, you know, maybe I'm a rube here, but but I

1:02:15 deeply believe in the values of this nation and and that there are and that there are so many public servants who really want to serve this country. And so to have a president who really simply wants money and and really will sell out the country,

1:02:32 anything gold, anything gold, anything gold is really, I think, twisty to get your head around. And um I think that's why this election was so important because it was a shot across the bow as I kept saying it needed to be to wake up um some of the Republicans that you know the the Trump magic is not going to work here and they better get off their butts and start blocking some of this and delivering for the American people or they will be out of office very quickly.

1:03:02 I wonder if maybe I've thought about this all wrong. So, I've been thinking about, well, you guys, you run blue states. Maybe there's a way. It might be drastic, but a federal tax strike where you say, "I've given you $70 billion more than I get back. You're taking money away from me."

1:03:16 I think about that all the time. We're going to call a federal tax strike. Maybe the idea is you go more the Saudi UAE and you say, "Donald Trump, I'm going to let you build whatever you want to build, wherever you want to build it. I'm going to give you $10 billion." And maybe that's the way to do it. Maybe states need to start bribing him.

1:03:37 Oh man. Seems seems to be the most seems I see. They both just get real sad. I think I just wait to the heart.

1:03:44 Yeah. Is there h what are Have you guys talked about like a a federal tax strike or any of those types of things that could force the hand on on on these issues?

1:03:55 Um I I I think that's a great idea. I talk often about clawing back federal money. I mean, the easiest place to start with that is in the courts. um that's that's the easiest because how people pay taxes is not you know there's not some state portal um there are areas that you can claw back and freeze but I think that's something that um you know I know Gavin Newsome brought up how much money California I would love these I I would love to start to rework the federal taxation system if the federal you know as I say and I think people here in New Jersey agree you know if they're not going to run the programs then what are we paying them for it's like you know you're paying us for service and they're not delivering ing.

1:04:32 So, let's stop paying for it. And it's clearly punitive. He uses it transactionally. He very clearly uses it as leverage. If you don't allow me to choose your professors and your curriculum, I'm going to take away this money

1:04:48 or fire your presidents or look, Abigail, you had that UVA suffered that UVA president was pushed out for some [ __ ] idea of their DEI programs. And by the way, I've had enough of their we're only doing it so that uh these universities fight anti-semitism. This is an administration that allows in people who say they have Nazi streaks, who you know, any time that these text messages come that are horrific. They say, "Oh, kids will be kids." Like, you want to clean up anti-semitism physician heal thyself? like their administration is rife with this nonsense and yet they use that against your states and and and what what is Abigail? What do what can you do about about those things?

1:05:39 Well, in Virginia might be a bit of a unique case in particular at least rel relative to some of the private universities that come that have come under fire because our universities are are public. the board of visitors as as we call the governing board uh in the commonwealth are appointed by the governor and then they have to be confirmed by the um the legislature and so right now at a number of our universities we have uh boards that are not fully constituted as is the case with UVA um and in fact UVA's board becau in part because it's not fully constituted it's missing five members it's also not statutoily compliant because there's requirements related to residency there's a, you know, requirement for a certain number of UVA grads to be on that board. Um, and so they're in the middle of this search process. Of course, you know, they they signed on to uh this this weekend pack uh packed with

1:06:35 uh the federal government and you know, frankly, we're out celebrating that UVA doesn't have to pay any sort of damages to the federal government. The question is for what?

1:06:43 For what? Um, and the former president of of UVA put out a very very long letter going through all of the events of the summer.

1:06:52 Yeah, I thought it was fantastic. Thought it was fantastic. It was incredible. And he it was something he had written, most of it contemporaneously through the events of the summer. And he spoke to, and this is important in Virginia, he spoke to the fact that their, you know, intentionality around recruitment of students, you know, it isn't necessarily related just to the kind of the diversity that people will think of in in gender or in race, but in fact, in making sure that if you are from the coal fields of Virginia, you know, you can get to the University of Virginia.

1:07:22 It's not just Northern Virginia kids who make their way there, right? it's that the intentionality of who is coming to study in this place and so as governor I will be appointing members of the board um that you know my my goal is that they are steadying the ship but we also need legislative changes another uniqueness about Virginia is it's our attorney general here in the state who appoints the council for each of the universities and so when people question well why is it that you know the the university or the president didn't defend themselves well because the university council was handpicked by our state attorney general who's doing the bidding for the department of justice.

1:07:59 It's so hard. You know, the whole thing is you're basically look at the dances and look at all the things that you guys have to do to battle against things that are happening in your state that are not good faith things. They're not being done for purpose or for governing.

1:08:13 I mean, doge doge on on Virginia. I mean, the fact that you have an attack on our entire economy, um, and our governor, our current Republican governor and lieutenant governor have said nothing, I mean, it's it's is an abdication of responsibility.

1:08:29 The cowardice of those in this current moment uh will be written in stone. Uh, but I I wanted to just uh thank you guys, congratulate you guys. I know you you apparently have states to run now.

1:08:43 We're a Commonwealth in Virginia, actually. I'm sorry, your I'm sorry, her excellency. Get back to your Commonwealth. Uh uh Mikey, uh good luck running our state and uh I I just wish you the best. But what I'm most pleased with for you is that you both now seem to be in situations where the job is commensurate with your abilities. where you're no longer in a House of Representatives that's designed to diminish any possibility of action or in places where you can really start to accomplish the things that I think got you into public service in the first place. And so just thank you both for for being here and and congratulations to Mikey Cheryl, the governor-elect of New Jersey and Abigail Spanberger, the governor elect of the Commonwealth of of Virginia. And I hope you have wonderful I guess reigns would be the right no terms terms

1:09:38 terms maybe rains in Virginia but terms terms of service terms of service. Uh thank you both.

1:09:45 Well thank you. I really appreciate it. Have a great one. Thank you. It is it is so funny to me. You know, I I've spoken to enough politicians and and been [clears throat] enough there, but when they have a personal relationship with each other, it immediately transforms the conversation in such pleasant ways.

1:10:09 Yes. I love the fact they're like, "I have two sisters. She has, oh my god, your sister, she told me." Like, you can tell their history. It It really is like It's like talking to college friends who have kind of a language and a

1:10:20 Well, they basically did that. It absolutely felt that way. Yeah, being roommates and all, but it was nice to have candid politicians on. Like it felt a little more candid.

1:10:31 Yeah, they were so lovely and charming, which is very funny considering basically what I know about Mikey before this was from the attack ads that I get from the New York metro area. So, it's like Mikey Cheryl as opposed to relentless.

1:10:46 Yeah. But also even, you know, unfortunately for for her as a candidate, then her ads are not reflective of who she is either. Like you would think at that point you're like, is is New Jersey a helicopter? Because from every like from from these ads, the only thing she knows how to do is fly a helicopter. And but it's not that at all. What I thought was so interesting about the conversation is it shows how the people are the product of the system, not the other way around.

1:11:18 The system doesn't seem to be a product of the people. That has grown and metastasized and become. But you've got really good, effective, smart people neutered by a system that is designed to put all the power up into the, you know, barely sensient leadership. And and that's where it all lies. And everything that they do are decisions about preserving their own status. And it drives these good people away. And it really makes you wonder like what's wrong with the people that stay and want to operate within this system as it is.

1:11:55 You know, I really appreciated the cander about Congress. And I actually a million years ago interned for Mikey's predecessor who was a moderate Republican and he said behind closed doors to me in the one meeting I had with him as an intern like if I could do it over again, I'd do the foreign service. So, you know, I don't think this is a new idea that people are in love in Congress. By the way, like how sad is the meeting you have with your freshfaced, bushy tailed interns who are working in a congressional office and the first thing you say to them is, "Yeah, it's not it's it's not a it's not a life.

1:12:34 Get out." It basically was that it's it's not a life. It's not something that you want. Uh that's that's wild, Britney. But what what do we got from the uh this is we're heading into the break now, the Thanksgiving break. What are the what are the what can we do for the listeners on our way out.

1:12:50 All righty. First up, um John, when taking on Trump, does Marjorie Taylor Green have bigger balls than Elon?

1:12:58 Oh, wow. I That's such a I would never even place them on the same, you know, the the difference is Elon is, you know, he is in a he's a Masters of the Universe guy. He's in that Silicon Valley like who is the next who is the next Neo that will be the one that will control all the levers of our of our new society. So they're they're such different things and uh you can see that Elon would like to repudiate at times this administration but also understands the trillion dollar contracts and pay packages and like if you're in if your game is I will have it all. You know those guys are all competing in like a Thanos beauty pageant like they all want to know.

1:13:49 Marjorie Taylor Green's like just such a very different animal. And by the way, like good honor for doing that, but like I'm not exactly Oh, Marjorie Taylor Green, she's so ballsy to stand up to her thing. Like she also sees where the wind is blowing on this. I think this whole like and now I'm going to go on the view and pretend like I wasn't who I was. It it all feels very cynical to me. And uh but again, just getting directly back to the question, uh just I think on a purely physical level, I do think her balls are probably bigger. But that's I'm I'm saying this purely anatomically cuz I know what ketamine does to the testicles.

1:14:32 Wow. Well, at least she's not deleting her tweets about [gasps] Yes, that's right. Like his thing is so cynical. Like even his Grock AI is full of [ __ ] Like if you plug in there, did Elon back out of a interview uh with the Daily Show, Grock is like it's complicated. He's he's you know, it's an interesting question, but he's a busy man with lots of things. Why would he lower himself? And you're just like, "All right, [ __ ] ridiculous."

1:15:04 Oh my god, that's awesome. Yeah. What else? Um, John, what do you think about all of the CEOs attending the White House dinner for MBS?

1:15:14 Uh, what did we think they were? Honestly, like I don't I Are people surprised by it? our people. I cannot believe that the head of Apple, the head of uh me, what what all the different would sit at a state dinner with the guy who is funneling billions and billions of dollars into their businesses. Donald Trump hosted, you know, this was the whole [ __ ] thing. Do you remember the mom Donnie? You know, uh all all these right-wing guys are like, "How dare he take a picture with an imam? Has he forgotten the lessons in 911? How one guy came after me. Has John Stewart, he's talking pleasantly with mom, Donnie. You know, this is a guy. Has he forgotten 911? First of all, [ __ ] you.

1:16:05 [ __ ] you to the highest order of [ __ ] you that you can be [ __ ] Don't you ever ask me about that, you [ __ ] And second of all, your guy hosted a live golf tournament in the shadow of the towers with the Saudis and powled around with him. So again, let me repeat myself. [ __ ] Yahoo. Like the guy you support, like how how dare they? It's so shocking. And by the way, like I'll even give it up for if you're a businessman and they've got, you know, a funnel and you've never uh made the case that your business has any moral underpinnings whatsoever. So the idea that you want to hook up uh your mouth to the largest teeth in that area and just suck down as much as that glorious Saudi money as you can get to.

1:17:04 But I'm sorry, live golf tournaments are an elective. That is an elective. You make a choice like that. That is not something that your business requires that it uh is foundational. That is an elective. And so for any of those uh right-wing guys that want to go out there and criticize the associations between uh you know anybody that would even talk to mom Donnie because clearly you know he's so out there uh w with his points of view look in the mirror [ __ ] face.

1:17:40 John I love it. Sorry I what what I meant to say was yeah I haven't thought about it much. It is really crazy how we shouldn't be surprised at all yet seeing NBS in the Oval Office and Trump saying don't embarrass our guests or whatever to the reporters. It was just shocking still to my system.

1:18:05 And also like getting handsy with him and grabbing him and playing by the knee like

1:18:10 and and giving him a noogie and holding on to him and go like, "Hey, this Kosogi guy, you know, he was a real troublesome individual." No, he wasn't. just a journalist.

1:18:19 He was just a journalist who asked questions that were uncomfortable. And it's pretty clear that Trump wishes he lived in an environment where uh uh all the little piggies can be taken out

1:18:30 to to you know to a farm upstate. You know what I mean? Like that's he is so much more comfortable in the trappings of autocracy than he is in the standards of democracy. He just it's it's when he is at his most congenial.

1:18:50 Yeah. Yeah. He loves it. He loves it. He loves, you know, grabbing Putin's hand on the red carpet and giving, you know, NBS a a nookie and having Orban there for a little. They love it. He loves it.

1:19:09 What a friend circle. My god. with friends like these. Do you think they have a text chain?

1:19:15 Oh my god. What would it be called? Uh, immortals, Mount Olympus, uh, circle of godlike, you know, they believe themselves all to be touched by. It's a throwback to no bless oblige. Like that is right of kings. That's what these guys think it's it's all about. It's so clear his relationship with NBS and and I'm not naive enough to think like oh look Saudi Arabia is we're allied with them. we've been that way and like pretending that like we're horrified at their actions. Like even the idea Biden like to he wanted to do the fist bump like oh you know I don't like the fact that you killed people so I'm not going to give you the whole hand. I'm just going to give a fistbump. And that's what Trump was making reference to when he was grabbing them and holding them and all that other [ __ ] But there are electives and there are prerequisites and required courses.

1:20:14 And you know, I'm not naive enough to think this country doesn't do things or have relationships with people that are in a lot of different ways uh beneath the standard of, you know, moral behavior that we purport to carry ourselves with. But there's a difference between that and gleefully embracing the trappings of it.

1:20:38 He loves this [ __ ] It's not more honest. It's not more authentic. It reveals uh it reveals the world you'd rather live in. He has much more respect for strong men than he does for constitutionalists by far.

1:20:58 Yeah. I would think Donald Trump would be more upset with what Saudi Arabia did to the PGA tour than do any journalists. So true.

1:21:06 No question. And by the way, he he loves what they did with Liv and that's why he hosts it's it's great. It's entertaining near near, you know, the towers where the towers were. And yet all these right-wing guys are out there screaming about photos being taken, you know. [ __ ] that.

1:21:28 Hypocrisy at its finest. Yeah, it's so disingenuous. Yeah. Sorry, I got I got I got a little hot there. I apologize.

1:21:36 I love it. Yeah, take them down one by one, baby. um to get us into the holiday spirit.

1:21:43 Yes. Easy. Easy pivot. Thank you. Um John, do you think will be better or worse for Thanksgiving dinners moving forward?

1:21:58 What an what an interesting question. Uh I guess it depends on on if I guess it depends on if the turkeys are on it. just what what an interesting thing for Americans. You know, it's basically a holiday that is, you know, turkeys were like the turkeys that we get are not what turkeys are supposed to be. Like if you ever look at the, you know, the heritage turkeys of the American past like they don't they're they were not giant breasted dumbasses that waddled around like

1:22:32 No, they were on Ompic. They were they were they were they were free range. So I I guess the point is uh the ompic is merely to get us out of a pickle that we put ourselves in. like the whole the orgy of food that comes along with Thanksgiving is in many ways uh you know like it used to be like let's do that once a year to celebrate that we didn't get smallpox and now we put it on the table cuz uh it's Thursday and Boston market had a special so let's you know it will be I wonder if it will have a demonst able effect on the amount of food we buy as a nation. I do wonder if you're going to start seeing like Jetson's like, [snorts] you know, meal in a pill that has all the nutrients that they think you might not. I Yeah, this has gotten very dark.

1:23:35 Uh guys, I hope you guys have a wonderful You got You Everybody got good plans for the holidays?

1:23:40 I'm going to eat a lot. I mean, we we we do the cooking. We're we we're we're the hosts every year and we bring it's it's my favorite holiday. We get all family together. We get a big group. Everybody goes crazy eats and it's it's a it's it's my favorite uh for sure.

1:23:57 What's your favorite side? Oh, uh it's got to be the sweet potato pie. I'm a sweet potato pie with cranberry, you know. I love the cranberry sweet potato pie. Uh all those different things. And then obviously like I'm a pie. Like what? Any kind of pie. Come on.

1:24:15 Are you waiting for the end? Yes. Thanksgiving. I don't I don't eat. I you know I have my one frozen protein meal in the morning

1:24:24 and then I just sniff the pies as I go along. That's enough for me. That's right. Uh and to the audience too, I hope you guys have a wonderful Thanksgiving. Uh we got no podcast uh next week there. and to everybody uh who's been listening and all that. We are very thankful for you, but mostly I am thankful for the people that help put this thing together every week and do such a phenomenal job for it. And those are the ones that you've been talking to and some others as well. We got our lead producer Lauren Walker, our producer Britney MDC, producer Jillian Spear, video editor and engineer Rob Vlo, audio editor and engineer Nicole Boyce, and our executive producers Chris McShane and Katie Gray. Have a wonderful holiday, and we'll see you back in uh I guess they call it December, early December.

1:25:06 The Weekly Show with John Stewart is a Comedy Central podcast. It's produced by Paramount Audio and Bus Boy Productions.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Governors-Elect Sherrill & Spanberger On Winning & Governing | The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart"?

Jon Stewart (Host), Mikey Cheryl (Guest), Abigail Spanberger (Guest).

What is "Governors-Elect Sherrill & Spanberger On Winning & Governing | The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart" about?

Governors-elect Sherrill and Spanberger discuss the swift congressional action surrounding the release of the Epstein files, highlighting the discrepancy between the government's claims of inaction and their capacity to expedite decisions when politically convenient. They reflect on the implications of this phenomenon for public trust in Congress and share insights from their recent electoral…

What is mentioned in this The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart episode?

6 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Damonte Cheryl, Donald Trump, Pact Act, Lois Frankel. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Governors-Elect Sherrill & Spanberger On Winning & Governing | The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart"?

The episode runs 1 h 25 min; the transcript is about 15,597 words in 197 timestamped sections.

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