Transcript

Harold | This American Life | Episode 869

From This American Life · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 1 min · 9,897 words · 130 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Harold | This American Life | Episode 869", an episode of This American Life published October 6, 2025 (1 h 1 min, about 9,897 words). It mentions 15 people, works and ideas, including Harold Washington, Richard J. Daley, Eugene Sawyer, Gary Rivlin, Danny Davis.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Harold Washington, Danny Davis, Chuck Schumer, Eric Glass
  2. – 20:00: Harold Washington, L. Palmer
  3. – 30:00: Harold Washington
  4. – 40:00: Harold Washington, Eugene Sawyer, Fire on the Prairie, Gary Rivlin
  5. – 50:00: Harold Washington, Chicago Reporter
  6. – 1:00:00: Harold Washington, Dreams from My Father, Eugene Sawyer, Fire on the Prairie
  7. – 1:01:07: Harold Washington

Notable quotes from "Harold | This American Life | Episode 869"

  • Because watching this, it reminded me of the story of another charismatic politician ages ago, Harold Washington, the first black mayor of Chicago.
    about Harold Washington · at
  • Very different than Zoran Mdani's. The opposition to Harold was over race. The opposition to Mamdani is more about his views on Israel and his socialism or progressivism or…
    about Zohran Mamdani · at
  • Before our story begins, Chicago was run by the Democratic machine, and black alderman like Danny Davis would turn out the vote for the machine election after election. But the…
    about Danny Davis · at
  • L Palmer, Judge Eugene Pinchum, Congressman Danny Davis, then Alderman Eugene Sawyer. There are people from his administration. Jackie Grimshaw, Grayson Mitchell, Timuual…
    about Eugene Sawyer · at
  • Reform. Gary Rivlin is the author of a very even-handed history of Washington's years, Fire on the Prairie. everyone wants to understand Harold Washington as the first black…
    about Fire on the Prairie · at
  • Secretary, now editor at a sort of muck-breaking publication called the Chicago Reporter.
    about Chicago Reporter · at
  • In fact, there's a passage in Dreams from My Father about this when he writes about what Chicago was like immediately after Harold's death.
    about Dreams from My Father · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Harold Washington — Person · 33 mentions · first at
  • Richard J. Daley — Person · 4 mentions
  • Eugene Sawyer — Person · 3 mentions · first at
  • Gary Rivlin — Person · 3 mentions · first at
    Mitchell, Timuual Black, and some reporters who followed his story. Vernon Jarrett, Monroe Anderson, Gary Rivlin, Laura Washington, who later became his press secretary.
  • Danny Davis — Person · 2 mentions · first at
  • L. Palmer — Person · 2 mentions · first at
    L Palmer, Judge Eugene Pinchum, Congressman Danny Davis, then Alderman Eugene Sawyer. There are people from his administration. Jackie Grimshaw, Grayson Mitchell, Timuual Black, and some.
  • Zora Madani — Person · 1 mention · first at
    One thing that's been interesting watching the rise of the New York mayoral candidate, Zora Madani, who's a Democrat, is watching precisely how much of the Democratic machine…
  • Chuck Schumer — Person · 1 mention · first at
    All of them. Not some of the most important New York Democrats. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, House Minority Leader Hakee Jeff, former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg.
  • Zohran Mamdani — Person · 1 mention · first at
  • Eric Glass — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Welcome WBZ Chicago. It's this American life. I'm Eric Glass. Today we're bringing you the story of Harold Washington, Chicago's first black mayor.
  • Bernie Epton — Person · 1 mention
  • Jane Byrne — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

Companies & orgs

Full transcript with timestamps

One thing that's been interesting watching the rise of the New York mayoral candidate, Zora Madani, who's a Democrat, is watching precisely how much of the Democratic machine has come out to support him. After he won the Democratic primary, of course, normally the party would fall in behind him. And in fact, some prominent Democrats have come forward and endorsed him. But not all of them. Not some of the most important New York Democrats. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, House Minority Leader Hakee Jeff, former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg.

And I'm bringing all this up today because watching this, it reminded me of the story of another charismatic politician ages ago, Harold Washington, the first black mayor of Chicago. Harold became mayor back in 1983. And that was so revolutionary at the time that a black man would become mayor of the city of Chicago that after the primary, the Democratic party turned on him and an old school Democrat, a white guy ran as an independent against Harold in the general election much like Andrew Cuomo has done with Mum Donnie.

But back then, most of the Democratic machine endorsed the white guy in the general election. Then once Harold took office, Democrats continued to fight him and the changes that he wanted to make. I want to be clear like I don't want to oversimplify in comparing these two stories. So much of Harold's story is very different than Zoran Mdani's. The opposition to Harold was over race. The opposition to Mamdani is more about his views on Israel and his socialism or progressivism or whatever you want to call it. The race and religion, the fact that he's Muslim is definitely in there, too.

But Harold's story is a parable about a Democrat whose very existence made the party have to question what it was all about, which seemed very much like Mandani. So, we're going to replay his story today. Back in 1997, 10 years after Harold died, we did a full episode about him. And can I say if you don't know anything about Harold Washington, you're in for a treat. He is this charismatic, idealistic man, very funny, very smart, great talker, a Democrat framing issues with a skill that it is really hard to think of any Democrat in office right now who does it as well, but also a pragmatist, somebody who got elected, somebody who got things done.

So, I hope you like this. It's one of my favorite episodes we've ever done. Here we go. Here's that show from 1997. Before our story begins, let's remember how it used to be. Jackie lived on the south side in a black neighborhood. City didn't enforce the housing code properly, didn't investigate arson.

There would be fires going on in daily, several times a day. And it was just fire engines all the time. And so, um, my daughter started to believe that when buildings got old, uh, and died, like people got old and died, that you knew a building was old and was dying because it would burn up.

Before our story begins, Chicago was run by the Democratic machine, and black alderman like Danny Davis would turn out the vote for the machine election after election. But the machine didn't reward the black wards for those votes the way it paid back the white wards on the north side with street cleanings and sewers with newly paved roads and sidewalks. Economic development money.

Well, actually um you know they we we we had called the areas um colonies is I I I mean and and and just basically picking up the garbage in these wards just trying to keep them clean was a real problem. person who was elected, uh, you know, there would be so much focus on garbage pickup that, you know, you'd almost have to just be the garbage alderman.

I mean, I recall telling people time and time again that I was tired of just being the garbage alderman. Before our story begins, the Chicago political machine squeezed black kids into mobile trailers behind public schools rather than let them attend white schools just blocks away. Before our story begins, the Chicago machine built high-rise public housing to hold blacks on the southside and keep them from moving into white neighborhoods. Before our story begins, the Chicago political machine built a system of highways that coincidentally divided black neighborhoods from white and particularly insulated the mayor's all-white neighborhood, Bridgeport.

Typical inequities. Unemployment in the white 11th ward was 0%. Unemployment in the fourth ward, where blacks lived, was 25%. This is a story about one ethnic group doing what so many other ethnic groups have done in this country, put its own candidate in city hall, won the mayor's office. But because this ethnic group happened to be black, what happened was unlike anything that happens when an Italian politician or an Irish politician or Jewish politician takes city hall. White voters deserted their own political party. White politicians tried to stage a public slow motion coup. And the mayor faced pressures that were different from those faced by any white mayor of any city in America. And nobody tried to pretend that the fight was not about race.

Good evening. You're on with Harold Washington. Good evening. Uh Mr. Washington. Uh, could you clear up a point for me? Um, I understand that, uh, once you move into city hall, you're going to, uh, remove all the elevator boxes and, uh, replace them with vines. Is that, uh, is that true?

What? Replace them with what? With vines. Vines. Ves. You know what? I'm not even I'm not even going to ask you why. No, I don't think we have 3 million tars in this city.

Good evening, sir. Rand Randall is gone. Welcome WBZ Chicago. It's this American life. I'm Eric Glass. Today we're bringing you the story of Harold Washington, Chicago's first black mayor. He died early in his second term of office back in 1987. Act one of our program today is about what happened during Harold's life. Then we have a short act two about what came afterwards. A word about the voices you're going to be hearing over the course of this hour. It's mostly people who are close to Harold Washington. Many of them activists and politicians.

L Palmer, Judge Eugene Pinchum, Congressman Danny Davis, then Alderman Eugene Sawyer. There are people from his administration. Jackie Grimshaw, Grayson Mitchell, Timuual Black, and some reporters who followed his story. Vernon Jarrett, Monroe Anderson, Gary Rivlin, Laura Washington, who later became his press secretary. There'll also be an occasional opponent or voter. Stay with us.

This is American life. A hack one yesterday. For decades, Chicago politics had been run with an iron hand by the legendary political boss Richard J. Daly. Our story begins just after his death in 1976 when the machine was sputtering a bit with no strong leader and the possibility, a small possibility of change. To give you a sense of what it meant to be a loyal black alderman in the Chicago machine at that time, consider what happened in city hall the day Richard Daly died.

By tradition, the president prom council should have least occupied the mayor's office until such time as a process was determined for the election of a new mayor. And who was the president?

Wilson Frost, black, a loyal black alderman from the 34th ward, a daily democrat, a lawyer, impeccable reputation, impeccable credentials. The only misqualification he had was he's black. God ordained that he'd be born black. and the power structure sent police officers to the fifth floor armed to sit at the door to prevent Frost from even entering the mayor's office. That was a tremendous insult. It was an insult, but it was not unusual. The white machine picked who the black leaders would be, and mostly those leaders did what they were told.

Blacks in Chicago had nowhere to go but the Democratic machine. They were stuck. But then there were a series of famous and especially infuriating insults from the white political establishment. Biggest among them, black voters finally elected an anti-machine candidate named Jane Burn, who once in office betrayed them, sucked up to the white machine, made appointments and decisions specifically to prove she was not in the pocket of black Chicago. Then circumstances came together, some by planning, some by luck, that made it possible to elect a black mayor. The planning. Organizers registered over a 100,000 minority voters, held rallies and meetings declaring it was time to elect a black mayor. The luck. Two white candidates split the white vote. One more piece of luck. The Chicago Democratic Party had created in spite of itself Harold Washington. Vernon Jarrett was an old friend and a local newspaper

columnist. And Harold was in that party. Now don't forget Harold had been a precinct captain. His father had groomed him as a priest and captain since he was what 11 years old. But his father was done wrong. So hell is a is an unusual person in that he nursed this resentment of how the Democratic party had deserted his father at one time and his father ran for alderman of the third ward. Uh he's a confused guy, got a little sense of mission in him and wanting to do the right thing, but yet he was balanced off by this pragmatism that you got to play ball to a degree with the organization. And he was correct. He would have he wouldn't have made it without the Democratic machine.

Usually in Chicago, political activists had a choice. They could go with politicians who were good on the issues but then had no political experience dealing with the machine. where they could get hacks who knew the machine but were terrible in the issues. Washington was the rarest kind of politician delivered on the issues knew the machine which is why in fact he did not want the job. L Palmer was at the center of the effort to draft a black mayor.

Well, we talked to Harold. He was reluctant, very reluctant at the time. He was in Congress and was enjoying being a congressman.

Enjoying it partly because he was far from the machine. He set some requirements how much money we'd have to raise. We'd have to uh uh get 50,000 new voters.

He asked that thinking, well, you'll never get that early. He used 50,000 knowing that no way in the world are they going to come up with 50,000 new reg. And that was hard in those days to come up with 50,000 registered voters.

They registered 130,000 new voters. May I if may I jump ahead a moment? You know what put Harold Washington over with the broad masses of black people was when they had the primary debates.

Oh the triumph was a televised debate. You know, because you had Daily, you had Burn, and then you had somebody who could talk, Harold. Let's review that lineup. Daly was Richard M. Daly, son of the late mayor Richard J. Daly. Burn was Jane Burn, the then incumbent mayor. And Harold, you already know Harold. Those were the three Democratic contenders in the mayoral race. It is the fall of 1983. Here's a typical exchange between them. The three of them were asked at one point what they would do, if anything, about the police department's office of professional standards, the place in the police department which handles complaints about police misconduct and brutality. Jane Burn and Richard Dailyaly sound basically like normal politicians. They offer dull truisms like

I believe that the members of the police board chaired by Reverend Wilbur Daniels really do take that job very seriously. Here's the most specific that Richard Dailyaly, then states attorney, got that day.

I think like anything else, there must be improvement and there is nothing wrong with improvement in the office of professional standards.

When Harold Washington comes on, what is most noticeable is that he sounds like a human being. The precise question was, what would I do to improve the Office of Professional Standards? When I answer it, I'll be the only one who answered the question. The uh the office of professional standards was arrived at after a long and torturous situation in this city in which members, not all, but members of the Chicago Police Department consistently refused to be adequate and professional in their handling of Hispanic black people. It's just that simple.

What happened was he became plausible to the black community. Suddenly they heard somebody who was articulate

knew what he was talking about was forceful in the first place. The appointees all but nine or political appointees. Many of the investigators are wedded to or related to police members of the Chicago Police Department. The

a lot of people black people had felt all along that we've been bossed by dunderheads. They are not that bright. They don't know that much. and Harold Harold Washington standing there between James Bryan and Richard M. Dailyy the son so cool so well read that people black people just thrilled it was like watching Michael Jordan with a basketball

Mr. Breezac unfortunately at the behest of this mayor as a minion of this mayor as a subturn of this mayor as a subordinate of this mayor has destroyed his credibility.

Harold used to use words that even some of these journalists these white journalists had to scratch their head and go to the dictionary. But black people love that.

And he jumped on Jane Burn and took her by surprise, shocked her and she was still reeling from the shock. And I should never forget it that night cuz this man got it made. He's in. Here's one way that being a black candidate for office is different from being a white candidate. If you're black, you get thrown into the chasm of misunderstanding that divides white America from black America in a way that white politicians almost never are. Two Americas simply see certain things differently. For instance, what should Harold Washington say about the late Mayor Richard J. Daly? Many white Chicagoans still held him in awe. While black and Latino Chicago, for good reasons, had a different take. Daly openly stood against integration of the city's neighborhoods. The night after Martin Luther King Jr.'s death, he ordered police to shoot to kill rioters.

Well, here's what Harold decided to say when he says that he would hope that I would have all the good qualities of past mayors. There are no good qualities of past mayors to be had. None. None. None. None. I didn't m I did not mourn at the bar of the late mayor. I regret anyone dying. I have no regrets about him leaving. He was a racist from the core. Head to toe and hip to hip. There's no danger doubt about it. And he spewed and fought and oppressed black people to the point that some of them thought that was the way they were supposed to live. Just like some slaves on the plantation thought that was the way they're supposed to live.

It was just like everything else he did and said it was historic. Uh no one would challenge the the late mayor on anything much less call him that kind of name. And I think that was what made him so provocative. It's what made him so loved by the people who supported him and so hated by the people who wanted to to deny him the office. He didn't miss any words.

I give no whose honors to a racist, nor do I appreciate or respect his son. If his name were anything other than daily, his campaign would be a joke. He has nothing to offer anybody but a bin up 10 can smile, no background, and he runs on the legacy of his name. An insult to common sense and decency. Everything I've ever got in the world, I worked for it. Nobody gave me anything.

The primary taught him that he could transcend being the third candidate of being the black candidate and he could take that Adam Powell positioning. He could take that Marcus Garvey positioning where you're the hybrid between the politician and the public man and you become somewhere between Muhammad Ali, Michael Jackson, somewhere in superstar. And although I may sound abrasive, I have no malice toward anybody. I have a job to do. I've got places to go and things to do. And I approach this job just like any masterful surgeon. When you have to cut out a cancer, I cut it out with no emotion. Get it out. Get it out.

This dominant culture may have messed up my pocket, but they haven't messed up my head one. I believe in the powers of redemption and I simply cannot believe in the God I worship that he would permit us to sit on this earth for 400 years or rather in this country for 400 years and suffer the indignities which we have suffered pile time after time high after high and so heavy it has almost broken the backs of one of the most powerful people in this world. I can't believe there is no redemption. But that redemption is not going to come out in hatred. It's going to come out in positive attitudes toward our fellow man. We've come into the 1980s with an understanding that we have not just a right, but a responsibility to give the best that we have to a society. We want to give it and we're going to give it if we have to beat them across here to knock them down and make them take it. We're going to give it to

him. During this election and during Harold Washington's terms as mayor in Chicago, every day was the day after the OJ verdict. Every day was a day when black and white Chicago took a look at the same set of facts and drew two different conclusions. For instance, when the media raised questions about Washington's past, it made white Chicagoans question his qualifications for office, but it made minority voters more loyal.

In 1983, when Harold uh announced his candidacy, 95% of black people never heard of him. And what happened was the white power structured media first criticized Harold for having been convicted of a tax violation. He failed to file his returns.

We should be precise about this. It wasn't that he hadn't paid. It's that he hadn't filed the returns.

Hadn't filed a return. That's right. He he he paid withholding, right? It was nothing to it. So what difference is it made? But the point is when this occurred, it gave him publicity that he otherwise would not have gotten. Many people in the black community resented the criticism being leveled against him.

They then said, "Well, uh, you're not married. You can't be mayor if you're not married. We made Jane Burn marry Mullen. We made Jim Thompson marry Jane Thompson. We made Kennedy in the Senate go back to his wife. You cannot be a viable politician if you're not married. Here again, he did something that blacks aren't accustomed to seeing blacks do. He stood up and he said, "I'm not going to get married." Everybody thought, man, go marry Mary if this going to make. And he said, "I'm not somebody tell me to marry. I don't want to marry. My my marital status has nothing to do with my qualification as mayor. And here again, the black community looked at him with a great deal of more respect now because many of the people black folks who married don't want to be married. No way. So they said, "Go on, Harold."

But he got some multiplicity. And quite frankly, you will have to concede. I certainly will say it that had the white candidate with the same baggage been running, there's no way in the world he would have been elected mayor.

How do you how do you figure that? Well, that's true. Your white candidate who' been in in in jail for failing to file the tax returns, who wasn't married, rumored being homosexual, everybody know wasn't a homosexual, but that was the rumor they tried to create. and a disbar lawyer. Where in the world he'd quite he'd be elected?

What What should we think of that? What I think of it, I think it's here again. Well, if you if if if South Africa can can elect a man who's a felon,

Nelson Mandela, another Mandela 27 years. You know what's interesting about is another criticisms also go to to what the white fear was. is I wonder like as far as you could tell what was the at the heart of the white fear

because he's black. And so the two Chicago headed to primary day. White Chicago mostly ignoring the Washington candidacy. Black Chicago a buzz about it. And when he won the two Chicago had wildly different reactions as you might expect. Mro Anderson was a reporter at the Chicago Tribune at the I mean, he's one of the few blacks who worked in the newsroom the day after Harold Washington's primary victory.

I mean, there was there was such a somber feeling around that place. I mean, it was like somebody's family member, beloved family member had died or something. I mean it was just really somber and we were in this jubilant mood except you did not feel comfortable expressing it looking it. So we walked around and then we would go into somebody's office or someplace inside and go yes and jump up and down and then come out and walk around. Yes, we're reporters too. Yes, we understand it. After primary day, things got ugly.

Usually, winning the Democratic primary for mayor in Chicago means you've won the office. The Republican party doesn't count in city elections. But in this case, as Chicago moved toward the general election in April 1983, 90% of white Chicago deserted the Democratic party to vote for a Republican named Bernie Ept. one of his campaign slogans, Epin before it's too late. Black Chicago saw the Democratic defections as racism, pure and simple. Meanwhile, white policemen circulated hate literature illustrated with chicken bones and watermelons. And perhaps the most famous incident in the campaign while stumping with Walter Montdale, Harold Washington stopped at St.

Pascal's Church on the city's white northwest side. It was almost a riot. Monroe Anderson covered it for the Tribune. There's a racial slur in this next clip that we're leaving in so you get the full picture here. When Harold showed up and the press entourage showed up, I mean, there was this I mean, there's just angry. I mean, people were like approaching the car. I mean, it was just I mean, people were out of control. I mean, there were I thought that we were in physical danger. Then we get to the church and somebody spray painted on the church graffiti. It said, "Die, [ __ ] die."

On a Catholic church. Yes. Meanwhile, something curious happened. Occasionally, Harold Washington, or one of his supporters, would say in passing something like, "It's our turn now." And when they did, it made headlines. White Chicago and the mainstream press saw it as more than just ethnic pride. It was seen as threatening. This is one of the ways that being a black politician in America is different than being a Polish politician or an Irish politician. Judge Pinchum,

the difference is very, very simple, and that is when the Polish attempt to get a Polish mayor, it's good ethnic politics. When the Irish try to get an Irish mayor is good ethnic politics, but when the blacks try to get a black mayor, it's racism.

Glen Leonard grew up in the white southwest side of Chicago, didn't vote for Howard Washington.

I think a lot of people thought that he was going to bring in a lot of people that were going to be black and we're going to change the city. Now we have our chance. Now, let's go ahead and do it. Let's take let's let's write all these so-called wrongs. Whether they were right or wrong, it's another story. Let's write these wrongs. Let's move in. Let's take over. Let's uh have a more of a say in the local government. And people just thought saw that as a threat. They thought, well, these people are going to come in, move into the move into the corner house and or whatever and another white flight starts again. I think that that was a big fear.

Chicago will become another Detroit. People said another Cleveland. Property values would fall, businesses leave. Many whites had already fled one set of neighborhoods during white flight. And Glenn says that white Chicago was used to having the late Mayor Daly protect their neighborhoods, for instance, by blocking federal schemes to bring in low-income public housing all over the city. But Harold Washington wouldn't do that.

He was going to obviously no longer block these and these these low-income housing units would come into every neighborhood in the city or whatever. And that would start the ball rolling your uh what do they call it on the uh in the Far East uh when the communist uh the domino effect. Thank you. This is one thing that black politicians have to deal with. The white politicians don't. And this is true from Chicago to Washington DC from North Carolina to South Africa. They have to deal with white fear. Harold Washington.

We have 670,000 black registered voters in this city. When you get right down to it, the votes are here.

They're here. They're here. And every group, and I said it before, and I'll say it again, and the press takes it and runs out of left field with it. Every group that gets our percentage of population, they don't go around begging. They don't go around explaining. They don't have any excuses to make. They just move on in and take one of their own and put them in office. That's what we should do. That's what democracy is all about. Problem is when your opponents don't see your election as just the normal workings of democracy. How Harold Washington tried to rise above their fear after he squeaked out a narrow victory in the general election and took office. It's in a minute when our program continues.

This is American life glass. If you're just tuning in today, uh what we're doing is that in this moment when a Democratic socialist, a Muslim candidate, Jon Mani stands poised to become the next mayor of New York, sending the Democratic party into a kind of identity crisis as he does it. We're rerunning this show that we first broadcast back in 1997 about another big city mayor who forced the Democrats to reexamine what the party was all about and pick sides. Harold Washington, Chicago's first black mayor, who took the mayor's office in 1983 and died just four years later, just a few months into his second term. We rejoin that old episode now.

So, in Chicago and most American big cities, the way it used to work, and I say used to, with some reservations, you could argue that a version of this still exists lots of places, but the way it used to work was that when Irish Americans took the mayor's office or Italian-Americans or Polish Americans, they channeled contracts and patronage jobs and other municipal goodies to their own communities. Blue Palmer was one of the people at the center of the movement to elect a black mayor in Chicago. He convened the early organizational meetings in his basement.

It is hard to imagine that Harold Washington would have ever come to office without him. And he was disappointed by Harold. I don't know. But he never became what I would consider the black mayor. Black people wanted something that was so simple, fairness. And I used to get upset with Harold after he became elected because Harold was too fair. In fact, he would say in his speeches, you know, I'm going to be fair. I'm going to be more than fair. No one but no one

in this city, no matter where they live or how they live, is free from the fairness of our administration will find you and be fair to you wherever you are.

I used to cringe, but I need your help when he would say, "I'm not only going to be fair, but I'm going to be fairer than fair." Well, come on. You know, you don't have to go overboard. And Harold did. Those of us who are considered radicals, uh, we simply believe that since Dist and all the rest of the white mayors had always put white people first without any question, without any apology, we said, "Well, Harold got to put black people first." And that's what we wanted. I'm not sure we wanted to to to be to white people what Daily was to black people. That is, you know, he was just ridiculous.

But people wanted they wanted to see the opportunity to have our community thrive like like other communities. It wasn't just black nationalists like Glue Palmer who felt this way. Oldtime machine loyalists like Eugene Sawyer who was the black ultimate that the white democratic machine wanted to secede Harold Washington as mayor said the same thing.

And that was part of things that I think we probably were too fair. I think Harold was too fair.

And what was a lot of people think it was too fair by giving a lot more and giving everybody the same thing and uh people didn't expect it. A lot of black folks think that, you know, you should have given your own people a little bit more. Well, part a major problem with being a black person in America,

reporter me Anderson, is you're in this trap because I mean, and this is sort of our curse and our blessing because of this racial history is that we have been complaining and pointing out all these inequities for a very long time. And therefore all this all these things that you have pointed out that have been an injustice to you now that you're in power you can't do because it'll be injustice to whites and therefore the rules have to be this great even everything's fair and square people close to herald Washington say that it was smart politics for him to be fairer than fair. After all, black words had been treated so unfairly in the past that simply giving them the same services that the rest of the city got would be a huge step forward. It was also the political stance he felt most comfortable with by disposition. And when black politicians or community activists came to city hall trying to

get more for one neighborhood over another, he was so enormously popular in black Chicago, where 85% of the black electorate turned out to vote for him and where everyone simply referred to him as Harold, that he could ignore the pressure. Jackie Grimshaw was a staff person.

I think there's a difference between the black black population and the black politicians. Uh I think on the part of the black politicians, it was definitely it's our turn. Um, you know, and I had to deal with some of these folks. I mean, they'd come in and they they want 10 jobs and crap like that. Hey, 10 jobs. But I think on the part of the the people, I mean, they were into fairness. I mean, I think the fairness thing played with them, you know. I mean, they were proud of Harold. They supported him what he was doing.

Privately, Harold Washington talked about the danger of doing away with the old patronage system. How it could make the first black mayor weaker than any of his white predecessors. But publicly, for all intents and purposes, patronage was over.

It's gone. It's gone. And in the words of Cornell Davis, they said he wasn't dead. So I went to his grave and I walked around that grave and I stomped on that grave and I jumped up and down and I called out, "Patronage, patronage, are you alive?" And Passionage didn't answer. It is dead. Dead. Yeah,

Washington attacked the machine. The machine struck back. From the first day of Washington's first city council meeting, 29 alderman, all of them white, the old Democratic machine, teamed up to oppose him. For the first time in memory, a Chicago mayor did not control city hall. For the first time in memory, clout, that's what we call it in Chicago, clout. sheer bullying force that was at the heart of Chicago politics. Clout was no longer in the mayor's control. It was the machine's 29 votes to Harold's 21 votes. The 29 not only blocked his appointments, it never brought them up for consideration. It blocked most of his legislative initiatives and dedicated enormous energy to looking for ways to embarrass him and thwart him. It was mayhem, a battle so divisive and chaotic that it sustained the animosity and suspicion between black Chicago and white Chicago for years. It came to be known locally

as Council Wars after a local African-American comic named Aaron Freeman began staging moments in local politics as scenes from the Star Wars trilogy. Harold appeared as Luke Skytalker, leader of the rebellion, constantly spouting off long, difficult words. Harold's main political opponent, Edoliaak, the older man who led the 29, also got a big part.

What are you doing in my office, Lord Darth Voleiaak? I wish to discuss committee assignments for the new council. I don't have to talk to you. I'm the mayor. I can do whatever I want. I can I find your lack of respect disturbing. It is obvious you do not know the power of the clout. It has served all of the mayors before you. It can bring you great wealth and power, or it can destroy you as easily. The choice is yours. You do not constrinate me, Vidoliac. Take this parliamentary maneuver. Well done, mayor. But I counter with this negotiated majority and I file a suit in court.

But the decision is in my favor. You may have prevailed at this juncture, Vidoliac, but I will assiduously pursue your disestablishment.

Perhaps, mayor, but to do so, you must use the dark side of the clout. You must make deals and compromises. Never. Yes, mayor. To defeat me, you must become me. Look at my face, Skyalker, for I am your mentor. No.

Even under these adverse conditions, Washington did manage to pass budgets and get some things done. Black Wards finally got the same street repair and garbage pickup as all the other wards. Jackie Grimshaw describes one scheme Washington came up with to do some improvements around the city designed to be of course fairer than fair to give every ward the same benefits. But the 29 of course opposed it and Washington needed their approval because to pay for it he wanted to issue a city bond. So every wart was to get I think it was 10 miles of street resurfacing and alleys certain number of alleys done and street lighting and um and so he had all these on the bond issue and they were refusing to uh to pass it. So he put all of the reporters on the bus and and he would go around to these various wards and he like we went out to Mount Greenwood uh uh another area of the city that doesn't that did not welcome blacks at the time

um to say your alderman uh is refusing to support this bond issue that I want to use to give you real streets and if you want it you better tell your alderman to vote for it. And so by the time he got through doing this you know the folks in the communities were pretty much outraged. you know, black may or not, they wanted their streets, they wanted their sewers, they wanted their vaulted sidewalks, repair it and so forth.

What happens to American politics when one of the politicians happens to be black? In this case, what happened was that everything in city politics was seen through the prism of race, even though often it had nothing to do with race. Often it had more to do with reform. Gary Rivlin is the author of a very even-handed history of Washington's years, Fire on the Prairie. You know, everyone wants to understand Harold Washington as the first black mayor, and it's true, he was the first black mayor, and that was a very significant thing, but he was also the mayor who beat the Chicago political machine. He was the first reformer in 30 years uh to take on the machine, and he did it more successfully than anyone else before him, purely on a reform point of view.

And so he was a different kind of politician, but no one could ever see beyond his beyond his race. In fact, there was a political cartoon at the time I I I I loved and it was an editor asking the a reporter covering the election, uh, so anything changed, anything new? And the reporter answered, "Nope, he's still white and he's still black." And really it was it was never it really wasn't that much more sophisticated than that cartoon um indicated.

You pick up a local paper and these guys just whack so eloquent they don't know what the hell they talking about. Don't have the slightest idea about the phenomena. Don't understand the history. Don't understand the mindset. Don't understand what push people. All they say is gee black folks must be angry. Gee, black folks voting for black folks tell they must hate white folks. ain't got nothing to do with nothing. Nothing crazy stuff. But that's what you read around in Chicago. That's what I have to put up with every day when I look in the reporter's eyes. All All silly business, you know. How many white folks did you convert today, Harold?

Wow. Wow. And the answer is more than you did, boy. cuz I do my job irregardless of race, color, creed, or sex. Because everything he did, even things that were more about reform than about race, was seen through the lens of race. It gave Washington's opponents a tool that they could use against him, which they did. A typical example, some crime rates went up between 1985 and '86, even though overall crime was lower under Washington than under his white predecessor. But his opponents tried to make the case that this proved the black mayor did not care about crime. Hate literature had said that he would do nothing about crime because most crime is caused by blacks. So they were using this statistical uh uh bump um between 85 and 86 to prove what the hate literature was saying that the black mayor is going to be indifferent to to crime. See that's playing that's playing the race card and playing in a

dirty way. It's a way of of of distorting statistics uh to play to racial fears out there. So did Washington talk about race? Did he talk about the Chicago political machine always being biased against the black community? Sure. Is that playing the race card? Sure. But I also happen to think it's true what he was saying. Whereas what I think the opposition was doing much more of uh was playing the race card and playing it in a dirty way. You know, trying to tweak and abuse statistics any way they could to prove their point and play into the worst fears of of the white community. I never saw Washington playing into the worst fears um of the black community. In fact, his rhetoric was, "I'm going to be fairer than fair."

Fact is, by the time he died, just a few months into his second term of office, Harold Washington had put together a working majority on the council. Not many more whites voted for him in his second election than in his first. But every political observer in Chicago says that he was making headway. Patrick Okconor was one of the 29 aldermen who opposed Washington. There was one of the few swing votes who sometimes sided with the mayor. We invited him up to a picnic in our ward. Um and he showed up at our picnic and u he got a great reception.

People that really didn't vote for him and probably wouldn't vote for him the next time respected the fact that he came out there, that he wanted to say hello, that he wanted to participate. And bear in mind that I was voting consistently with a block that was voting against him. And he came out and we spent the day and it was fine. I remember one time we were both invited to a place that neither of us were particularly popular uh in the ward. And so uh I got a call from his office. And this is again at a time when there was a council war going on asking was I going to the to this uh uh festival or whatever it was and if I was would I meet the mayor on a corner in our ward and go in there together with him. And I told the guy, "No, I'm not meeting him on the corner." I said, "He wants me to go. He's going to pick me up at my house." So, the mayor pulls up to the front of my house. He comes in. We have

uh a glass of wine that he had and I had a beer and uh we sat around for a couple minutes and he he met my family and uh um he looks in my dining room. We didn't have any dining room furniture at the time. The kids were all young and we just moved into the house. So, he says um he says, "Where's your dining room furniture?" My wife says, "You don't pay him enough money." And Harold goes, "I knew this cheese was going to cost me something." I mean, and he was just that quick. He was really very, very good. But my point is is that we got in the car, we went to this festival, and by the time he left, he had people dancing with him. He was uh went over, he he he was talking with folks. By the time he left, it might not have changed the mind of a everybody in there that he was okay. But he had made a significant impact and he understood by keeping that schedule and going to areas where he was

not expected to show up or would traditionally not be the most welcome person that he was winning percentages of people and that's all he had to do. Vernon Jarrett says that if Washington had lived, he would have done a lot to ease the strains of modern Chicago apartheid. Harold was going to win over a big chunk of the white population. And I don't mean Gold Coast liberals. They were beginning to like this guy. And they could see something in him uh that represented them. He was chubby, warm, friendly, and not only that, he was going into some uh lowerass white neighborhoods having his streets paid for the first time. And they were slowly beginning to lose their fear.

Act two, the present and the future. Today's rerun, first broadcast in 1997, 10 years after Harold Washington's death continues.

There are ways I think that the mayor has changed the city forever, but they're not things you can necessarily measure um by doing headcounts and using a lot of numbers.

Laura Washington, Harold's former press secretary, now editor at a sort of muck-breaking publication called the Chicago Reporter.

I think he opened up the city in ways that it will never be closed again. If you look at the numbers, um you'll still see a lot of inequity. You'll still see neighborhoods that are poorer, probably poorer than they were 15, 20 years ago. You'll see neighborhoods that that still probably don't get their fair share of city services, but you'll see, I think, a dramatic difference in the attitude that public officials and policy makers have to equity in the city. 10 years after Harold Washington's death, people who follow politics in Chicago said that if nothing else, current mayor, Richard M. Daily, son of Richard J. has to worry about making black voters angry. He's been careful to have black press secretaries and kept a number of appointees from the black administration before him. He's done nothing so far to infuriate black Chicago the way his white predecessors regularly did. City services are

distributed more fairly even today, though there's been a bit of backsliding here and there. And Richard Delly's latest proposed bond issue follows the model of the Washington years. It gives all of Chicago's wards equal benefits, something that was unheard of in the years before Washington.

Okay, so this is Ira in 2025 again. Hi. At the end of Harold Washington's first term, 88% of white voters still voted against him. And 10 years after his death, when we first broadcast the program that you're listening to right now, we sent a reporter, Rachel Howard, to the 39th ward out near O'Hare Airport, a mostly white ward that voted against Washington to see if times had changed, to see if they would consider voting for a black mayor. Short answer, no. Longer answer, she talked to people in a bar who got totally riled up as soon as she mentioned Harold Washington.

Called him the N word. They would start ranting about how he should have stayed on the south side, how he wasn't their mayor. 10 years is not a very long time.

No, I didn't vote for Harold at all. Why not? Uh because he was black. Most people I spoke with felt this way. Some even said they were scared when Harold was elected. And at another bar up the street, a guy explained what everyone had been afraid of.

He thought that's it. We're done. And that was a big thing. You mean north side is going to be a south side now? He said north side and south side are very uh segregated.

Let's put it this way. He he thought that the black people are going to take over the city.

No, no, no, not that. Those slums be slums. You know, you worry about slums. Okay, that was 1997.

But then we went back 10 years after that, 2007. And I have to say it was interesting the change. Reporter Rob Wbbor went to a bunch of the wards where Harold Washington was not welcome back in the day. the 10th, the 11th, the 23rd wards, and he talked to 50 people and all but three of them said they would be willing to vote for a black mayor. Now, to be clear, people were openly racist, okay? Unapologetic about it. Like this guy, Pete, bought a house here in Hegish. And what happened?

Blacks moved in. Taking over the parks, taking over the schools, taking over everything.

Go on a holiday to Wolf Lake. Who's over there? They're all barbecuing over there. We can't even go to our own parks. We got nothing.

But then the same guy said that he wished a black alderwoman, Tony Prewinkle, would run for mayor. He'd vote for her. He said she did a great job cleaning up High Park. Or there was a woman named Mary Kay, who lived in the 23rd Ward by Midway Airport, the neighborhood where Washington got the lowest vote total in the city in 1983. Less than 1%, just 199 votes. Mary Kay was not one of the 199. She told her reporter Rob, "Things are just different now."

Back then, for me, it was white or black. You know, I was prejudiced back then, probably more so than I am now.

There's still some lingering around. Oh, yeah. A little bit. You know, don't turn my back on them, but Yeah.

No, I mean, that was 20 years ago. I don't have that fear these days, you know. Now I accept you're black or white, you know.

And Washington didn't do bad. I mean, he he was a decent mayor. So, what's changed?

Everything. I mean, I've changed. They've changed. You know, the black people are more educated. They're, you know, they're standing on something these days. They They've come a long way in this world. And they deserve, you know, they worked hard. I mean, you see it in the stores, you know, they're, you know, they're doing just as good as us. They're well-dressed. They're, you know, they're clean. They're not the ghetto. And they want what we got. Well, we've always had every group, and if the press is listening, I want them to hear this.

They didn't hear it when I ran for office. I'll say it again. Every group when it gets population ascendancy as night follows day decide without malice to anybody not anger at anybody that it is their turn. Period. That's all. Ain't nothing wrong with that. And I made that statement two months ago and they said it was racist. But they left out most of the statement which the Irish do it, the Polish do it, the Jews do it and every intelligent group on earth because every group does it and we do it and we should do it and we do it in a positive sense, not in a negative sense. You're not anti-Irish because you're pro black.

You're not anti-lack because you're pro-Jewish. I mean, that doesn't follow. You just happen to be pro. And as long as you are not as long as you are not anti as long as you are not anti your proism is accepted. It's just that simple. Now I hope the press gets it right just once.

Okay. So obviously that's Harold and then before that was taped from 2007 voters speaking 20 years after he died. 2007, uh, that same year, you may remember there was another black Chicago in politics capturing people's attention. Barack Obama was running for president.

Some of you may know that I originally moved to Chicago in part because of the inspiration of Mayor Washington's campaign. And and for those of you who recall that era and recall Chicago at that time, uh it's hard to forget the sense of possibility that he sparked in people.

When Barack Obama ran for Senate and later for president, one of his adviserss was David Axelrod,

a man who's uniquely positioned to comment on how racial politics have changed in Chicago since Harold's time. because he was also a political adviser to Harold Washington back during Harold's second run for mayor. Back in 2007, I reached Axado on his cell phone to talk about that. It was during the Obama campaign. He was on a campaign bus in Iowa. He told me back then that things had significantly changed in Chicago's white wards in the years since Harold's death. Now, I remember that the night of the uh 2004 uh Democratic primary for the US Senate when Barack Obama was nominated. And one of the things that I uh looked at that night was how he did on the northwest side of Chicago. Uh you know, when Harold ran, he got 8% of the white vote in his first primary. I think he got 20% in the reelection and uh much of the determined resistance was on the northwest side of Chicago. Uh and uh Obama carried all but one ward on

the northwest side of Chicago. He even carried the precinct in which St. Pascal's church sits. That was the church where uh Harold Washington and Walter Mandel campaigned in 1983 and met with really hostile resistance from the crowd. Obama carried that precinct. And I said to Barack that night, I think Harold's smiling down on us tonight. When Obama got to the general election for senator, he won 70% of the vote or more in every white ward in the city. His results weren't far from that when he ran for president. Years later, when Kla Harris ran against Donald Trump in 2024, that mostly held. Most of those white wards went solidly for Harris with 60 or 70% voting for her. Trump only won one Chicago ward out of 50.

When I asked the people who urged Howard Washington to run in the first place, that's Lou Palmer and Tim Old Black, what the lessons of the Washington years are, they both said the same thing. They talked about how it was a mistake to think you can make the world change if you pin your hopes on just one man. After Harold died, the movement died, too.

And I tell you, a lot of people don't like to criticize Harold Washington. I blame Harold for this.

What should have been happening, we should have anticipated either his demise or removal from office and been organizing for that possibility.

Harold was put on a pedestal and I think that was a major mistake. We we we lifted him to almost God status.

Barack Obama noticed the same problem. In fact, there's a passage in Dreams from My Father about this when he writes about what Chicago was like immediately after Harold's death.

The day before Thanksgiving, Harold Washington died. This is Obama reading on the audio book.

It occurred without warning. Sudden, simple, final, almost ridiculous in its ordinariness. The heart of an overweight man giving way. It rained that weekend, cold and steady. Indoors and outside, people cried. By the time of the funeral, Washington loyalists had worked through the initial shock. They began to meet, regroup, trying to decide on a strategy for maintaining control, trying to select Herald's rightful heir. But it was too late for that. There was no political organization in place, no clearly defined principles to follow. The entire of black politics had centered on one man who radiated like the sun.

Now that he was gone, no one could agree on what that presence had meant. I guess it's worth pointing out that this is what so many Democrats said when Barack Obama left office and Donald Trump came to power that Obama and his team didn't leave the Democratic party in proper shape to face the battles ahead. In 2017, after Donald Trump was elected for the first time, I checked again with David Axelrod. He told me that Harold might have been surprised that a black man was elected president just two decades after Harold won his second term. But he said Harold would not have been surprised at the backlash once that black man got to the Oval Office.

Well, today's program was originally produced back in 1997 by Alex Bloomberg and myself with Nancy Updike, Julie Spiegel, and Julie Snyder. Senior editor for this show was Paul Tu. Production help from Rachel Howard, Seth Lynn, Bruce Wallace, BA Parker, Matt Tierney, Suzanne Gabbard, Stone Nelson, and Michael Kate. Since we first put the show on the air nearly 30 years ago, four of our interviewees, Luke Palmer, Vernon Jared, Eugene Sawyer, and Judge Eugene Pinchum have died. None of them live to see a black man win the Ovas. of course, what's happened since. We used archival footage today from the following sources from Brian Boyer's film Harold Washington and the Council Wars, from Bill Cameron's taped recordings of Harold Washington's speeches and press conferences. We got tape from Chicago's Museum of Broadcast Communications. Thanks to Bruce Deont and the staff there, also from Harold

Gladstone and Jim Weissellis' film, The Race for Mayor, from Bill Stamut's film, Chicago Politics, Theater of Power, and from WBBM's archival news footage. WXRT radio gave us archival tape of Aaron Freeman's Council Wars satire and WTTW TV gave us archival footage of the 83 debates. In addition to all that, we'd like to thank Eva Bayza, who at the time was director of the Churnin Center for the Arts at the Duncan YMCA. And thanks to Gary Rivlin, who gave us advice throughout this production. We recommend his book Fire on the Prairie. It's a great history of the Washington Years.

Thanks to Huga Tyrell and Dolores Woods. Our website, thisamericanlife.org. This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the public radio exchange. Thanks as always to the co-founder of our program, Mr. Tory Malatia. I'm Har glass.

Let us close out today with a recording from the night of Harold Washington's second mayoral victory. on stage speak that great. I just want to say they don't go on Broadway. He danced with his wife in Chicago. Chicago. Next week on the podcast of This American Life, Evan creates an AI version of himself and sends it into the world to see what happens.

Jesus, I'm talking to AI right now. What makes you think that? I don't know. Just the the way you're talking, it seems a little stilted.

I get it. Sometimes we all wear different masks. Can people tell the difference between you and AI? Not always. That's next week on the podcast on your local public radio station.

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "Harold | This American Life | Episode 869"?

In order: 0:00 Harold Washington, Danny Davis, Chuck Schumer, Eric Glass; 10:00 Harold Washington, L. Palmer; 20:00 Harold Washington; 30:00 Harold Washington, Eugene Sawyer, Fire on the Prairie, Gary Rivlin; 40:00 Harold Washington, Chicago Reporter; 50:00 Harold Washington, Dreams from My Father, Eugene Sawyer, Fire on the Prairie; 1:00:00 Harold Washington.

What is mentioned in this This American Life episode?

15 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Harold Washington, Richard J. Daley, Eugene Sawyer, Gary Rivlin, Danny Davis, L. Palmer. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Harold | This American Life | Episode 869"?

The episode runs 1 h 1 min; the transcript is about 9,897 words in 130 timestamped sections.

More from This American Life

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 24, 2026.