Transcript

My Summer Self | This American Life | Episode 594

From This American Life · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 59 min · 9,268 words · 72 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "My Summer Self | This American Life | Episode 594", an episode of This American Life published July 7, 2025 (59 min, about 9,268 words). It mentions 6 people, works and ideas, including Rory Lester, New York State, Sue Giuliani, George Gorman, Playboy Club.

What this episode is about

The piece explores the author's ambivalence toward the beach, reflecting on personal experiences and societal expectations surrounding summer activities. It highlights the story of Rory Lester, a 66-year-old lifeguard and lawyer, who embodies the unexpected passion some individuals have for the beach and lifeguarding, challenging notions of age and pastime.

Key takeaways

  • Hating the beach in summer is like being a Jew at Christmas: inevitable presence, unyielding discomfort.
  • Lifeguarding at 66? Roy Lester shows passion knows no age, proving life’s waves can be ridden forever.
  • A thousand rescues at Jones Beach: Roy’s lifesaving tally outshines even the heroic feats of Baywatch.
  • Opting for jammers over speedos? Roy’s wardrobe woes highlight the absurdity of age prejudice in public jobs.
  • Lifeguarding is thrilling; paperwork isn’t. Roy's dual life reveals the unique joys of summer versus the grind.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: Rory Lester, New York State
  2. – 15:00: New York State, George Gorman, Sue Giuliani
  3. – 20:00: Sue Giuliani, Playboy Club
  4. – 45:00: Don't Think Twice

Notable quotes from "My Summer Self | This American Life | Episode 594"

  • Lifeguard in the story, he has another job. He's a lawyer. He's a working lawyer. His name is Rory Lester. He's a bankruptcy attorney. He's got his own firm in Long Island. And then he lifeguards every weekend in the summer.
    about Rory Lester · at
  • Recorded on the pool deck that day. It was a little windy, so the sound isn't great, but he's standing in front of Sue Giuliani, who is the director of Jones Beach State Park…
    about Sue Giuliani · at
  • Bureaucrats. Just get on with it. That's not Roy. Roy does not back down from a fight. So he sued. He sued the New York State Office of Parks, Recreation, and Historic Preservation for $5 million.
    about New York State · at
  • Neither would parks and wreck. But they did send me the affidavit of a guy named George Gorman. He oversees all the parks in Long Island. and it lays out their side of the story. Around 2006, some of.
    about George Gorman · at
  • Dad was an accountant. I grew up in Baltimore. and we got the deal because my dad was the accountant for the Baltimore branch franchise of the Playboy Club.
    about Playboy Club · at
  • Mike Rebiglia, John Lutz, Kate Muchi, Shannon O'Neal, Connor Ratliff, Gary Richardson, and Tammy Sager. Mike, Kit, and Tammy are three of the stars of the film that Mike made…
    about Don't Think Twice · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Rory Lester — Person · Primary subject (profiled lifeguard/lawyer) · 2 mentions · first at
    Central figure of Act One: a longtime Jones Beach lifeguard and bankruptcy attorney who sued New York State over swimsuit rules he argued were age-discriminatory.
  • Sue Giuliani — Person · Referenced manager / decision-maker in incident · 2 mentions · first at
    Shown in recorded pool-deck exchange as the Jones Beach State Park director who enforces the no-jammers rule and turns Lester away from the swim test.
  • George Gorman — Person · Referenced official / opposing-side witness · 2 mentions · first at
    Provides the state’s rationale via affidavit/deposition for restricting swim-test attire to official uniforms (no jammers), framing the management side of the dispute.

Books & papers

  • Don't Think Twice — Book · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as a film about improv comedians, related to the episode's summer theme.

Companies & orgs

  • New York State — Company · Case study · 4 mentions · first at
    Entity being sued by Roy Lester for age discrimination regarding lifeguard uniform policies.
  • Playboy Club — Company · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned in the context of a family vacation story, highlighting a cultural reference point from the past.

Full transcript with timestamps

me. I'm not crazy about the beach. Going in the waves, totally fun for a little bit, but like all day. And like many people over 40, I have no desire to ever be seen in a bathing suit by anyone ever for the rest of my life. But you know where I'm heading just hours from now after I leave the studio today? the beach for a week. And why? Because it's summer. Hating the beach during summer, and I believe I can say this with authority from personal experience, hating the beach in summer is like being a Jew at Christmas. You can try to sit it out, but it's just too big. At some point, you're going to drink some eggnog.

And you know what? When I go to the beach, I try I really try to get into it to have a nice time to appreciate the waves and the sand and the heat. And I think about how many hundreds and thousands of years of families have brought their kids to the water's edge to play pretty much exactly the same dumb way that we play in the sand and waves today. How many ways are there to do that anyway? It's just nice to be part of something that's been happening forever. And you know, some people really love it so much. A while back here on a radio show, we all saw this article about somebody like that. At the time, he was a 66-year-old lifeguard who was suing New York State for age discrimination. And I just want to pause on that for a second. A 66-y old lifeguard. All of us here on our staff, we had no idea like that could even exist. We all thought lifeguarding is something you do when you're in high

school, maybe a couple years after, into your 20s. Like, who's still lifeguarding at 66? And then it was even more of a question when we realized that the lifeguard in the story, he has another job. He's a lawyer. He's a working lawyer. His name is Rory Lester. He's a bankruptcy attorney. He's got his own firm in Long Island. And then he lifeguards every weekend in the summer. And can I just say today on our program, we have stories about people like him, people who love this summer, not people like me. From WBZ Chicago, it's this American life. I'm Myra Glass. We prepared today a program to listen to with the sun beating down on you, the humidity through the roof, a show of people embracing summer and everything about summer. Today's show is a rerun. And let's just get right to it with act one.

Act one, the grapes of wrath. So, one of our producers, Janet Chibvis, she went out to Long Island and met that guy, Roy Lester, the 66-year-old attorney lifeguard who was suing New York State. Basically, the deal is that they tried to make him wear a speedo. He refused. He lost his job. Here's Dana. If you ask Roy, "Why are you still lifeguarding at 66?" He barely understands the question. It's so self-evident to him. It's been his life since he was 16. He and his buddies were kings of the beach. He lived with other lifeguards. His best man at his wedding was a lifeguard. Their kids grew up playing together on the beach while they were on duty. He never wanted to leave this job. Even when he went to law school in California, he came back to lifeguard every summer. In law school, aren't you supposed to have like an internship in a law firm or something like that? You're supposed to. Did you

not do that? No, I did not do that. I never took it quite that seriously. You know, the idea of giving up the summer was something I just couldn't do. He's not alone. At Jones Beach, where he worked for 40 years, there are dozens of guys teachers firemen police who stayed with it into their 60s. Lifeguarding at Jones Beach is such a thing that a former lifeguard made a film about it. It's called Jones Beach Boys. Roy insisted I watch it. I did. It was awesome. Here's my favorite song from it. We're going for the rescue and getting to the victim. I never really appreciated how thrilling lifeguarding is until Roy talked about rescues. We were sitting in his law office. The exhilaration of a good rescue is unlike anything you've ever had, you know, and you don't get that. I sit here and I shuffle papers.

I wouldn't call it exciting. I wouldn't call it rewarding, but this is you're actually accomplishing something. You're up there and all of a sudden you're going out in the water and the rest of the world is behind. There's nothing else except between you getting from your stand to that victim. That's the only thing. And it's it's it's great. It's a great feeling. How many people do you think you've rescued in your career? Over a thousand. Thousand. Yeah. You have to remember there were times we would have 40 rescues in an hour. What? Why? What?

Well, you have because you have people that come down to Jones Beach who really don't know about swimming. So these especially when you have a current and you you can get a very strong current at Jones Beach. A thousand rescues, that's way more rescues than David Hasselhoff did on Baywatch. Figure two rescues per episode, 10 years on the air, Roy would still beat him by 560 rescues. Which is to say, Roy is one of the lifeguardiest lifeguards there is. He had two wins at the National Lifeguard Competition. He served as an expert lifeguard witness in court cases, and all was well in his happy lifeguarding world until the Speedo Mishagos began in 2007.

Here's what happened. If you're a lifeguard at Jones Beach, you have to take a physical fitness test every year to prove that you're still able to do the job. It includes a speed test in a pool. You have to swim 100 yards in a minute 20, which is actually pretty fast. A lot of these guys train all year for it. For 15 years, Roy took the swim test in his preferred swimsuit, a pair of jammers. They look like bike shorts without the butt cushion. If you're watching the Olympics right now, all the male swimmers are wearing them. They're tight and they go down to just above the knee. But when Roy showed up for the test in 2007, he was told, "No jammers.

His bosses at the Office of Parks and Recreation said, "You can only do the test in one of the official Jones Beach lifeguard swimsuits, which means you have three choices: board shorts, trunks, or speedo." Board shorts and trunks are loose, so nobody really takes a swim test in them because they create more drag and slow you down. So, in effect, state officials were saying to Roy, "You have to take the test in a speedo." Roy said, "No way. I won't do it." And he hasn't been a lifeguard at Jones Beach since. It it was one of those feelings like, am I making the right decision? I'm throwing away a 40-year career over a principal. It was a difficult decision. A very difficult decision. How long did it take you to decide? A second.

I really need to point out he would only have to wear the speedo for the test, which lasts a minute and 20 seconds. On the job, he'd wear board shorts. Most of the lifeguards do, young and old. Why not just put it on for the test, though? Why didn't Rosa Park just go to the back of the bus? There were plenty of seats. Of course, what Roy was fighting for is quite different from what Rosa Parks was fighting for. But to Roy, it's the principle of the thing. Standing up to age discrimination. When I read about all this in the New York Times, I really didn't understand.

What's the connection between a speedo and age discrimination? I've certainly seen older dudes in speedos. So, I went out and met Roy on a beach not far from his house in Long Island. It was 6:45 in the morning. He was about to go for a mile swim before work. So, Roy, can you can you describe what you're wearing right now? Well, it's a wet suit. It's a short sleeve wet suit and I have my jammers on underneath. Roy brought one of his official Jones Beach speedas to the beach to show me. Just describe it for me. It's a a an exaggerated thong for lack of a better word. But it's full coverage in the back, so it's not quite a thong, right? Not quite a thong, right? But to Roy and lots of guys, it might as well be a thong. Which is why the speedo has earned a stable of nicknames. The weeny bikini, the dingling sling, the speed don't, the banana hammock, the grape smuggler, the Miami meat tent, the Sanrope truffle

duffel, the scrot tote. The reason the jammer is preferred by older lifeguards is that you're saying it's more discreet, modest, more modest. Yes. Than the speedo. Yes. because it covers your thighs. I, you know, I I don't want to get graphic but you're the word begins with B. Basically, you're hanging out with the with the speedo. I get it now. I think you don't really with the jammers, it's not like that. There's like a little bit more of a roof over your uh house. Yes. Yes. I see. This is the nut of his argument.

Roy says once he passed 50, he felt self-conscious in a speedo. And nobody should have to feel self-conscious to get a job. So Roy refuses to put on the grape smuggler to take the swim test. A few weeks later, there's another chance to take the test. He shows up and this time he is wearing the official Speedo. He's just got it on over his jammers. He showed me a video of a conversation he recorded on the pool deck that day. It was a little windy, so the sound isn't great, but he's standing in front of Sue Giuliani, who is the director of Jones Beach State Park at the time. And there he is in his Jammers Plus Speedo outfit, challenging her to turn him away. I uh I've made a compromise. That's not going to be acceptable. You're not going to let me swim like this? No. How come? cuz you still have jamming on so that you cannot wear. All right. And is there any reason why they're not allowed? They're

not going to How many times? You know why they're not allowed? No, I don't. I I've never been able. Joe Scaliz, the director of water safety for the state beaches cuts in. Are you going to comply or not? I am complying. I'm wearing my official suit. Are you complying with what we want or not? I'm wearing my official suit. So, you're not swimming. All right, let's go. Did you just go home then? Basically I well I stayed around and I I you know watched everybody take the test and um Were there other people taking the test in jammers? No. No. Nobody was allowed to take the test and jammers. So everybody else either put on a speedo or put on the board shorts something like that.

Now Roy says he could have worn board shorts or trunks and still passed the test. He says he could have worn dungarees and passed. The guy is in ridiculous shape. He does triathlons now, coaches a swim team. In 2012, he had a hip replaced and 7 weeks later, he came in first in his age group in Bermuda's Round the Sound Swim race, a 1.2 mile open water swim. He was still using a cane to walk. So, the easy thing for Roy to do would be just take the test in board shorts or speedo and keep the job he loved. Let bureaucrats be bureaucrats. Just get on with it. That's not Roy. Roy does not back down from a fight. So he sued. He sued the New York State Office of Parks, Recreation, and Historic Preservation for $5 million.

Now, the easy thing for the state would have been to just let Jones Beach lifeguards wear jammers. Presumably, if they're good enough for the Olympic swim team, they're good enough for New York's lifeguards. But that's not New York State. It decided to fight. The lawsuit has worked its way through the lower court, which dismissed it, to the appellet court, which ruled in May that it should go to trial. This has been going on for 7 years. 7 years. Roy sent me a PDF of his exhibits in the case. It was 1300 pages long.

And the thing I really want to know, because I live in New York and pay taxes in New York, is why is the state using taxpayer dollars to fight the speedo suit? This could all have been resolved very easily years ago if they just changed the rule. Allowed the jammers. Why are Roy and the state fighting each other when they should unite against the real enemy, Jellyfish? Officials from the state of New York wouldn't talk to me for this story. The attorney general's office wouldn't talk. Neither would parks and wreck. But they did send me the affidavit of a guy named George Gorman. He oversees all the parks in Long Island. and it lays out their side of the story. Around 2006, some of the Jones Beach lifeguards started taking the swim test in full body swimsuits.

Management became concerned that those guys were only passing because they were wearing the full body swimsuits. So, they decided to change the rules. Starting in 2007, lifeguards could only take the test in one of the three official Jones Beach uniform swimsuits. No more full body suits and also no jammers because jammers aren't part of the uniform. In his deposition, George Gorman said, quote, "We determined it was best that the lifeguards wear the uniforms that they're assigned to wear while they're on duty." Seems reasonable, right? Not if you're Roy. He points out, "If jammers really are significantly faster, wouldn't you want your lifeguards to wear a faster suit, get them out to drowning victims sooner?" And as it happens, New York parks and wreck allows lifeguards to take their qualifying test in jammers in the rest of the state. upstate. I went upstate to take the test and I wore my

jammers. You know, you took the test upstate. Yes. And I wore my jammers and people wore the jammers and I have pictures of that and I that's part of the exhibit of guys taking the test in their jammers. Yes. The same employer, New York State Department of Recreation. The same employer allows the jammers. So your theory about this is that they're targeting Long Island because why? Because 90% of the older the over 50 lifeguards work on Long Island. It's the biggest group of older lifeguards anywhere. For what it's worth, the state told me that the rules are different on Long Island because it's a more strenuous job lifeguarding on the ocean.

Upstate, it's all lakes and pools. Why do you think it is that they don't want older lifeguards? Well, I I think they don't like the fact that older lifeguards have influence over the younger guys. And when you're a member of management, you don't want anybody having influence over your employees except you. And when you have to deal with the union and you have to deal with the officers of the unions who are all older guys and they know the beach, you don't want that. Yep. There's a lifeguard union. Roy was the president of the union for years. And at that point in 2007, when he refused to wear the speedo, he was the union's chief negotiator.

When Sue Giuliani tells him to follow the rules, so that you cannot wear, she knows him. He's the guy the union sends to argue its side. And these guys telling him he can't wear his jammers, their management. This is a scantily clad labor dispute. I asked some other older lifeguards about this and three out of the four of them agreed. This is about the union which actually has a history of fighting age discrimination. In 1966, they went on strike because the state tried to impose an age limit of 35 for Jones Beach lifeguards. So, they walked off the beach. A week later, the state caved. Knowing this, that the suits and the swimsuits have a history with each other, that helped me understand what Roycey's fight was really about. Roy told me one reason he took a stand was that management was supposed to tell the union if they wanted to change a rule like this. And this time they didn't.

Royy's got a weekend job now at a private beach club, but it's not the same. I like where I'm working now. I really do. But you get one rescue a year if you're lucky. And then it's a what's called a puddle jumper. What is a puddle jumper? Puddle Jumper is where you really don't even need to get your head wet. And you at Jones Beach in the old days, we would have these tremendous rescues. Just these great rescues. His friends from Jones Beach tease him that he's in exile now. How often do you go visit them? Not that often. I keep in touch with them constantly, but I don't go down there that often to be honest. It it does hurt.

It hurts to go down there. Um, that was my beach, you know. It was my home for so many years. If Royy's theory is true, then the state is trying to get rid of the older lifeguards on Long Island by forcing them into speedos. But if that's true, as far as I can tell, the only lifeguard they've managed to get rid of is Roy. Dana Chis is one of the producers of our show. Since we first ran this story in 2016, Roy has returned to Jones Beach. He takes a fitness test in a Speedo every year alongside everybody else and is back working as a lifeguard. He's 75 now.

More summer stuff coming up. Stay with us. It's this American life. We have arrived at act two of our program. Act two, say yes to summer. So, back when we first broadcast this episode, I had just finished making a movie with Mike Rebiglio, who's on our show sometimes, and the movie is about improv comedians, and I thought that it would be fun to invite some here on the show to do stuff about summer. And we got some great ones. John Lutz, Tammy Sager, Connor Ratliff, Gary Richardson, Kate Makuchi, Shannon O'Neal, who's the artistic director of uh Improv Theater, the Upright Citizens Brigade Theater. Biglia came too and they did this show at the Upright Citizens Brigade Theater in New York. And they did it in this style of improv where the way it works is that somebody tells a true story on stage and then the performers make up scenes based on things in that real story and then somebody else tells another true story

which kicks off more improvised scenes and so on. And so if you just want to picture this, the cast and I are on stage. There's an audience and we started this show with a true story that I told. So when I was 13, my uh my parents had enough money to take us on one of our very first family vacations. And uh we went to Florida. And one of the things that that made this possible is that we got a deal on the hotel. My dad was an accountant. I grew up in Baltimore. and uh and we got the deal because my dad was the accountant for the Baltimore branch franchise of the Playboy Club.

And and I would just say now like like it's sort of hard to remember if if you're under 40. I think there was a point where Playboy was cool. like it's sort of unimaginable now, but if you imagine like you couldn't get porn on your phone and uh and so we were going to go down Playboy Playboy owned hotels and they had a hotel in Miami called the Playboy Plaza. So we were going to be at this hotel that seemed very glamorous. There were going to be Playboy bunnies at the hotel serving drinks at the bar and at the pool. I was a 13-year-old boy. This was incredible.

We were going to fly in an airplane. It was one of the very first times I ever did that. Also incredible. There would be the ocean, which being from Baltimore, we called the ocean. And um and so this had all the makings of of a great vacation. And then when we got to the hotel, it was everything we wanted. And in addition, the Jackson 5 was staying there. August of 1972, Michael Jackson and I are the same age. We were both 13. And so you would see the Jackson 5 come out of the elevator for dinner dressed all in completely matching gold suede suits with fringe.

And you would see them at the pool just like the playing in the pool like other kids and which was us. And I should say like I remember goofing around in the pool with like the youngest one who was seven years old, a girl because she seemed like the most approachable. I knew she wasn't actually famous. Later, of course, I learned she is Janet Jackson. I played Marco Polo with Janet Jackson. And I have brought with me a photo of me and Michael Jackson from that vacation. I have it here. Now, before I show this to you, I want to just like I need to preface with um with some context, which is that while the Jacksons were becoming international superstars, I myself was working in the entertainment business.

I had gone to the Baltimore County Public Library and taken out some books on how to do magic tricks and I was doing birthday parties all over Baltimore County for fees as high as $10. Also animal balloonery. And so here is the photo and the audience here can see that my back is to the camera. What I'm doing, you can't see my hands. I'm doing the disappearing coin trick and the expression on Michael Jackson's face. He is literally rolling his eyes. So, uh, just to explain to the radio audience, uh, the cast is sitting on stools with microphones. And so, uh, you guys heard the opening story.

It's on you, Marco. Polo. Marco. Polo. Marco. Polo. Polo. Polu. Marco. You You really don't know where we are. I love the Jackson 5. Well, what do you say, guys? Should we give him a show? We have been workshopping a pool song. Hey, you're not going to sing the pool song without Tito. Hey guys, I heard we're we're singing the new pool song. Michael, no one wants you here. Hold on. Let me put on my swimming gloves. Oh no, I lost one.

So, are we going to sing this pool song or what? Well, I've got my bass guitar right here. I could walk us on in with a boom. Dip that toe in the water. Dip that toe in the water. I'm sliding down the slide. I'm sliding down the slide. Splish splash. Sliding down slide slide. Come on everybody. And welcome to Jackson 5 to your local hotel pool. Welcome us, the five of us. You're going to take this tail to school. Sliding down the slide. Sliding down the slide again. We're workshopping and seeing Excuse me. Yes. How can I help you? Yes. I'm here with my son. Perhaps you recognize him from birthday parties across Bernard County.

I'm okay. I don't recognize him from that, but um Joshy, introduce yourself. Hello. My name is Joshy. the magnificent. And we've been waiting in this corner booth for 5 minutes and no one has come to wait on us. Oh, I'm very sorry about that. I I uh uh I I can take your order right now if you want. How about How about some drinks? How could we order when the menus have disappeared? Tada.

I'm going to get you guys some water and I'll be back with some menus. Joshy will have a glass of sour milk, please. All right. All right. I'll be right back. Joshy, I love you, Mommy. I love you so much. So much so much. So much so much. I think what's special about summer when you're a kid is that it doesn't even feel like the rest of your life. Like you feel like there's life and then there's summer. And then when you get older, I'm I'm embarrassed to admit this. I'm barely aware that it's summer. Like I'm like, "Okay, it's summer." Like it all just I'll have that thing too when it starts getting hot where it's like, "Ugh, it's getting a little hot." I never had that as a kid. You'd be excited when it's hot cuz it I don't know. As a kid, so often the family were like reunions were in hot ass Pensacola, Florida. Like unbelievably hot. and populated with 100% old people. So, nobody was out. It

wasn't even like kids were out playing. So, I was acutely aware of how hot it was because I would get outside and just stand there. It would be me and my cousins just standing looking around hoping for something to inspire us to play. Like, these old people didn't have balls or anything to do. We would just walk to get a juice and drink the whole juice on the way back home because we were dying. Pensacola sucks. I hate I hate Pensacola Florida. Jane. Jane, come to the window. What? There's a bunch of children just standing.

We want your balls. Okay. Give us your toys. That one sounded a little bit like John Lennon. What is this? You're right. You're a Jared Jane. You're right. That was unmistakably a Liverpool accent. I'm John Lennon. I'm visiting with these children. Jane, what what do we do? Jane, do we adopt them? I don't know. Carl can't adopt a full-g grown Brit. Who says we can't? So, class, we've got a new sixth grader uh who's just moved to town. Um, so, John, why don't you tell the class a little bit about yourself? I'm from Liverpool.

All right, D. So, why don't you have a seat over there by Shelly? And, um, yeah, sit next to me. Oh, you don't seem to be fitting in that desk. Um, I'm a full grown man. All right. Well, um, Terry, you were in the middle of your talk about what you did this summer. Yes. This summer, I went on a cruise to the Bahamas. Me, my mom, my dad, my younger brother, Jason. We got on the cruise and there was 100 bedrooms. 100 bedrooms. And in the morning you get up and everybody has breakfast together. And sometimes there's different entertainers in the middle of the day.

If you don't want to go to the entertainer, you can go swim or you can go lay on the deck. And once we port, that's what they call it when the boat stops in the city. Port. Once you port, you and your family get together. Make sure you have your passport because if you don't, they might not let you back on the boat no matter what. We do all this, then we all Oh, one time my brother stepped on a I have a I have a story. I'm the biggest pop star in all the world. Sean, just one second, please. Terry is telling a very interesting story.

I made the biggest hits in all of America and also in Britain. Oh, do you want me to tell you what happens when you get back on the boat? Yeah. Okay, you get back on the boat and you go upstairs and you have dinner. And the dinner can either be pork or it can be chicken or it can be just vegetables cuz some people don't even like the meat stuff. They just want to eat vegetables. Can you believe it? Tell us about the toilets on the boat. Oh, okay. This is rubbish. scene. I stole once over a summer. Uh I was 10 years old, I believe, and I was on a cruise actually in uh Cancun, Mexico. I was playing with some like keychain that had a basketball on it because I was a huge basketball guy back then. I'm still a big basketball guy. Love the sport. Um but but uh but so I'm spinning it around on my finger and we leave the store and maybe 20 minutes later I realized I've still got it and I'm freaking out cuz

this was a summer that when I was younger I did taekwond do and one year I uh I went to state and like placed at state was supposed to go to regionals. Oh, no, not reg. I went to state then regionals. I was supposed to go to the national tournament in Las Vegas, Nevada, but I passed to go on this cruise. And I found out that had I gone to Las Vegas, I would have been one of four people in my age and weight division, and I would have automatically been going to represent the United States of America in Korea. And I uh and I passed on that to cruise around the Gulf of Mexico. And imagine Wait, wait, wait. But are you bringing up the theft because you thought it was causal? Like the fact that you did this bad thing led to you not going to Korea?

No, I thought that I can't believe that instead of being in Korea, I'm here stealing. I was freaking out because I saw two very different paths in my life and I had chose the wrong one. I had picked the wrong path. Sam, you don't want to go on the class trip. No. Uh cuz I have a chance to go on this cruise and it just sounds like way more fun. So, um have a good time on the trip. Sounds fun for some other people. I didn't want to mention this to the rest of the class, Sam. Yes. Well, then why am I still here? I'm leaving. No one ever tells me anything. You do not move. You are in punishment. That is why you're still here. Okay, maybe Cooper, instead of asking me why you're still here, you should ask yourself why you're still here. Cooper, why am I still here? Cuz I'm cool.

Wrong answer, Cooper. Wrong answer. So, Sam, honey, should I go on the trip? I mean, I I feel like I don't think I'll be missing out. Sam. Okay. I didn't tell the rest of the class this. Uhhuh. And I know the permission slip says we're just going to Great America to do physics calculations. Yeah. But when we get there, there's a physics bowl that's going to happen. That's it. No, Cooper, that's not it. Okay, that was kind of lame. Hey, why are you here, Cooper? cuz you're the best man. Give me five. I can't cuz I'm me.

But I mean, I could go to the beach and be on the ocean. That sounds way better. But I mean, if you really need Cooper likes your idea, huh? Do you want to be like a Cooper? Well, not really, cuz he picks his nose a lot. But that's cuz it's tasty. See? I feel like there's there's something about like summer when you're a kid where I have all these memories as a teenager where we'd go we'd we'd walk around town late at night um when we were probably like 13 14 years old and we wouldn't have a plan but we had nowhere to be. So, so like we'd walk to one of our friends houses, then we'd walk to the to the White Hen pantry and we get order sandwiches and we just sit there on the corner and we were like, "This is pretty cool."

Hey, um, listen, I know we don't normally plan this out, but I went ahead and made an itinerary. I I Here's yours. Okay. I've got enough for everybody. So, I mean, like right now it says we meet up, pass out itineraries. Yeah. I feel like that that was an unnecessary step because And now we can check it off. Oh, okay. Kind of takes away the fun, right? Isn't that the whole fun? Is that happen? Kind of got this. It said I should show up at 7:52 and just reject you guys. Yeah. Hey, Samantha. Hey, Samantha. Hey, Samantha. Don't do that again.

Well, I guess you should. Yeah, it's working. I mean, that was right on time. Yeah, I think it didn't hurt as much because it there was an inevitability to it that scene. I uh I was always really bad at getting or finding summer jobs that weren't terrible. And uh and you're bad at finding real life jobs that aren't terrible. Thanks Tammy. Uh I'll have you know I'm going to be dressed as a pretzel all next week. Is that real? Yeah. Not a joke. Not a joke. Um uh on In what context? I honestly I've said too much already.

You can tell us, but you guys just can't tell anybody. Why will you be dressed like a pretzel? Nobody tweet this. National branded snack mix internet only ad content standing ovation. Yeah. Um, the I don't think I don't think anybody could fit that in a tweet. I I think my favorite part is that you thought by saying it that we could ruin it. Yeah, we can't make it worse. All right. So, so anyway, uh one summer, uh there was a there was this local sandwich shop in my hometown, and the guy who owned the sandwich shop, he also owned like these fireworks stands that would go up like near the highway. And they needed someone to guard the fireworks stand at night.

And I heard about this job opportunity and and so I I said, "Are you looking for someone?" And he said, "Yeah, are you willing to do it?" And I just, well, what do I need to do? And I was going to make like $500 for the night. I would show up like at 9 or 10 at night or something whenever they were closing. And then I would just sit in the tent all night until morning. Wait, $500? So much money. One night. Yeah, it was $400 or $500. That's significantly more than you're making to be a pretzel. That's not true, actually. Wait, I would I wouldn't be I Yeah. Yeah.

Wait, you realize that was for sure guns or drugs? I don't know. All I know is I made big plans. I had a black and white portable television that I brought with myself. I'll just like watch TV all night and read and and so I so I showed up and there were a bunch of people already there and I said, "How I'm supposed to guard the fire?" And they said, "No, you're not." And I said, "What?" And they were like, "We're doing it." And I was like, I was told I was hired to do this job and it was supposed to be $500 for the night.

And they're like, "Oh, there's a mixup." And I was like, and so I and so they said, "Come back next week." And uh you can do next week. So I thought, "Oh, okay. Well, that's good." And so the next week I went to the fireworks stand on Saturday night to guard it and the same bunch of guys were there and they were like, "No, it was a mixup." I think they just lied to me as a trick just to see this teenager show up and just tell him to go away. So what you're going to do is you're going to guard this area right here.

Okay. Yeah. This is um this is the beach. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. just going to guard the beach. If anyone walks down the beach, you're just going to give them the business. Okay. Yeah, I can do that. Just get here at sundown. Hang out all night. Get here at sundown. You stay here all night. Cool. And if anything goes down and you're giving me $12,000. That's right. That's right. I will cut you a cashier's check in the morning. Awesome. Yeah. Awesome. 6:00 a.m. I will be here with a cashier's check. Awesome.

For $12,000. Right. Right. That sounds awesome. Cut to sunset. Yeah. Um I'm here to uh watch the beach. No, you're not. Yeah. Yes, I am. Oh, no, man. I'm watching the beach tonight, baby. Cool. Okay. Um well, I was told the this dude who makes milkshakes at the sandwich shop that I Milky Joe. Yeah. Yeah. Milky Joe. Yeah. Mix up with Milky Joe. Milky Joe told me I'm watching the beach tonight. Gotcha. Joe brought me here this afternoon. Yeah, that was later than what what happened with me on the other time that it did. So, it was all big. It was so crazy. It was the other side of the uh the time that you did it.

Oh, okay. Cool, cool, cool. Cut to the next day. An office. There's a window out to the ocean. And there's a there's a picture right here that says we own the beach. Hey, I want you to come look out this window, will you? All right. So, you see water there? Yeah. You know what? I'm not seeing any beach. I specifically told you to get someone to guard the beach last night so that something like this wouldn't happen. I hired two guys. I hired two guys to watch the beach. Did you tell them that they were to work together?

No. Well, I I hired them in opposition to one another. Look, I I don't know how they hire security guards where you come from, but where I come from, you pay somebody $12,000. They They watch the beach. Cut to a suburban home in the basement. Mom, don't come down here. What? This is my house. Don't tell me where I can and cannot go. Oh, fine. Just What is all of this sand Cooper and Seam

Mike Rebiglia, John Lutz, Kate Muchi, Shannon O'Neal, Connor Ratliff, Gary Richardson, and Tammy Sager. Mike, Kit, and Tammy are three of the stars of the film that Mike made and that I worked on called Don't Think Twice. This is not a documentary. It's a feature film. It's a comedy about a team of improv comedians and what happens when one of them starts to make it big. You can find it on Amazon Prime and Apple TV. Coming up, a dad tries something that he has never done before. One summer with his family. That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.

This is American Life from Ira Glass. each week in a program of course which is a theme bring you different stories on that theme today's show my summer self stories of who we are during the summer we've arrived at act three of our show act three it takes a villa so sometimes during the summer people just decide they are going to try and do things they never do go on some adventure attempt something and just see if it takes see if this is who they are see if they are the kind of summary person they have never been till now one of our producers Neil Drumming witnessed his dad make an attempt like that. In the summer of 1982, my dad did something unexpected. Something that seemed unbelievably indulgent. He took me, my mom, my brother, and the youngest of my three sisters on the most epic road trip any of us could have possibly imagined at the time. We piled into my dad's Buick Skyllock and drove from Queens,

New York to the World's Fair in Knoxville, Tennessee, where a robot danced for us and then down into Orlando Florida. This was a big deal. Before this, going away meant visiting relatives in South Carolina and sitting uncomfortably among aunts and second cousins whose names I would forget before we'd even pulled out of their dusty driveways. This trip was not country heat and sipping sugar water on some rickety porch while listening to the inscrable conversation of grown folk. It was what going a thousand m from home should feel like. We cruised down a brightly lit street called International Drive. We stayed at a Holiday Inn, taller and more grand than any I'd ever seen. Sunlight streamed in through a hole in the ceiling, a hole that was supposed to be there. Our parents took us to a building that looked like a pile of poached eggs, but was actually Xanadu, House of the Future.

And everywhere along every roadside, billboards promised that the most magical scene still awaited us. This place, Disney World, by all accounts, it was paradise for kids. But between the gas and the hotels and the eating out, my dad quickly discovered how expensive taking even 60% of his brood on a Disney vacation could be. He was resigned to do it, but he wasn't above working the angles. He found out that you could get cheap tickets to the Magic Kingdom if you just signed up to sit through an hour or so spiel from someone pitching time shares. He was in the hard cell went down at the Disney Village, a branded mini mall near the famous theme park. My mom, dad, and a handful of other determined parents stowed their kids in a room full of toys that had been conveniently provided by the salespeople.

The parents said about the business of listening or not, waiting patiently for the moment when the closers would stop shilling and start handing out the Disney discounts. But while we kids were in another room throwing Legos at one another, something surprising happened. My dad bit. He went into a closed room to get three-day passes just so that I could eventually lose my glasses on Space Mountain. And he came out with a deed. The deed to something he and my mom were now calling our villa. My father is a bold man, but in retrospect, this is the most impetuous action that I have ever seen him take.

It cost him about $5,000 which he paid in installments. In 1982, for a guy with five kids who never made more than $33,000 a year at his day job, it was a considerable investment. For those unfamiliar with time shares, it may be hard to wrap your head around buying a vacation home that you never really own. You pay upfront for it. There's an annual maintenance fee, but you only get to stay in it once a year or so, usually for a week at a time. It almost sounds like some sort of scam and sometimes it is. But it didn't turn out that way for us. Instead, it became a fixture in my family. My father had chosen as our week the first week in July. And so every year during one of the hottest months of the year, we would head down I95 as always. But now when we pulled into South Carolina to see relatives, that was only a pit stop on the way to our true destination. We had transformed from people who went away to

a family who went on vacation. Our villa was number 317, a two-bedroom apartment with an enclosed back porch that looked out onto a small man-made lake complete with fish, ducks, and another summer word that I learned, gazebo. My brother chased cicas and lizards for my sister, the only swimmer among my siblings. There was a pool. There were tennis courts and bikes to rent. The general store even offered a collection of the latest movies on laser disc. That first trip, I was eight. As I got older, I moved from the gazebo to the game room and then the gym, trying to meet other kids my age. My mom busied herself in the kitchen making lunches or sat by the lake and watched the ducks.

My dad shepherded us through it's a Small World and Epcot Center. Our summers went on like this, pretty much exactly like this, probably until I finished high school. I honestly loved it. I looked forward to this trip every year. And even though it was only a week, it was almost always the highlight of my entire summer. But when I think about it now, it occurs to me my dad pretty much orchestrated this thing that became so important to our lives. And I have no idea whether or not he ever enjoyed it himself. In fact, it didn't seem like he did. I can't recall actually seeing him happy.

Neither does my brother. He says dad was pretty much the same at the time share as he was at home. Sometimes he'd go for walks alone, but often he just sat on the couch and watch TV. I asked my sister. She said he must have been happy, but she doesn't remember witnessing it either. It seems like such a simple question, but I just wanted to know. Did he enjoy himself?

At the risk of embodying the most tired trope in all of modern masculinity, I will say my father and I never really got along. He was strict. His house had a lot of rules and he believed in corporal punishment. And the sting of that conflict stayed with me as an adult. But since my mom passed away last year, I've been trying to connect with him more. I gave him a call. Hello. Hello. Yes. Hey, it's Neil. Yes. Is it a bad time? It's about who? Is it Is it a bad time? No. No. I I was just plain uh solitary, you know. Yeah. I didn't know whether it was the drugstore or not. Are you waiting for a call from the drugstore? No. They'll call they they'll give me a call no matter when it is.

My dad is 83 years old now and living alone in Florida. Talking to him can be awkward and not just because his hearing is going. I asked him point blank if he liked going to the villa. He told me that when he was growing up, he barely ever left South Carolina. I didn't know nothing about nothing else, you know, like you saw things in magazines and stuff. Mhm. The first time I first time I knew about a a dentist, I was in the army. But I just thought it was a was a good idea that that our kids see some something other than their surroundings where where they go balls. Yeah. My dad grew up poor on a farm, one of 12 children. He says he only finished high school because by the time he was old enough, he was the one driving the bus.

Sometimes when there were athletic events at other schools, he'd get to drive the teams and learn what the nearby towns were like. In 1953, he was drafted into the army, which had only recently been integrated. They sent him to Colorado and Indiana, and it wasn't great. He says the army was really not into black people back then. So, those were his travel experiences when he was young. I was hearing a lot of this for the first time, and as it turns out, that's at least partially my own fault. The reason why we never talked about it because it it it just wasn't the kind of thing that that you guys seem to be interested in. Really? So, we just didn't seem like we were interested as kids. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I probably wasn't so interested back then. Back when the two of us were constantly challenging each other. I was always either afraid of him or angry at him, hiding from him or planting my feet to

confront him. It never crossed my mind to try to understand him. But nowadays, my dad feels to me like some kind of living cold case. A million-page brief that is no longer redacted. Maybe it's because I'm now at the age he was when I was born, but I retroactively find his every decision fascinating, even the ones that aren't so surprising on the surface. Why Florida? It was advertising. you know, you you get to hear something about Florida, you know, like and then this thing Disney World after we started going, they build um Epcot, they build Animal Kingdom and they advertise them a lot. Yeah. Not many people were going We were probably the most vacationing people in our area, you know. Yeah. I don't know of any other family that went on vacation every year. We We did. My dad was obviously proud that he'd gotten the time share, but pride, strictly speaking, does not constitute joy. It didn't answer the question of whether or

not he was actually happy spending those summer weeks with us at the villa. Instead, he kept trying to make me understand why he brought us there in the first place. and his explanation, his reasoning reached back to memories and past experiences that not only had I never heard, but that kind of blew my mind. And I tell you probably where I got the whole idea, you know, when we were in school, every summer, you had to try to think of something that you can write about when you go back to school because you're going to have to write something Yeah. about what you did this summer.

Well, we we never had anything to write about when I was going to school. And you didn't think crying a meal or picking peaches or stuff that that you had to normally do. You didn't think that was so exciting to write about. Yeah. You know, you know, and so we made up lies about what we did. Well, every some of you guys went on vacation, you could write about something that you that you did or saw or someplace you went. Yeah. What did you do during the summers? Uh when the this this year? No, no. When you were in school?

Work. That what I'm trying to tell you. We talked for over an hour. It was one of the longest conversations that I can remember us ever having. Every now and then, I try to steer him back to the question I wanted him to answer. So, I know I asked you this a bunch of times. I keep asking you the same question. You can tell me to stop asking you if you want, but did you have fun yourself? Yeah, I would I see I don't regret anything cuz it looked to me like I was doing what I was supposed to do and you know like and to see your kids happy was to be happy too and and you you guys could always come in and do whatever it is and go back out to the pool or whatever. Mhm. I remember, you know, you guys playing out there and hanging around the the bushes and stuff.

I thought it was great. That's a kind of enjoyment I hadn't considered. I live more selfishly. Also, his answer was hard to take in, to reconcile with the distance I felt between us at the time, back when he would retire to the couch to watch TV or we went off to play on our own. Maybe he was watching me play in the bushes and getting a kick out of it, but I didn't know that. Still, I was happy at the villa, and my dad says he was, too. I'm glad I know that. All right. So, I've been talking to you for an hour. I should probably let you go. But, but hey, is it okay like if I call back this week and just talk? I want to hear like more stuff since I didn't seem interested when I was a kid. I didn't realize that was why you didn't tell us stuff. So, now I'll just ask. Is that is that okay if I could? I The only thing I do is get up and sometime I'm outside just walk around. Sometime I sit down which

sometime I go ride the bike and I I do this just to keep busy you know like and you can call me anytime. All right. I'm going to go back to work. Okay. Bye. Bye. Neil Drumming. He was a producer on our show. Neil has just released an album. I'm a fan. It's called Writing on Airplanes. Includes a song about his dad. You can find the album Writing on Airplanes on most streaming platforms. Our

program was produced today by Neil Drumming. Our production staff Zoe Chase, Dana Chibvis, Sean Cole, Karen Duffin, Emanuel Joi, Stephanie Food, David Castenbound, Connor, Jaffy, Walt, Mickey Meek, Jonathan Manibar, Robin Semi and Alyssa Ship, Matt Tierney and Nancy Updike. Editors Joe Levelville, editorial help from Julie Snder and Oliver Baker. Other staff Elise Bergerson, Emily Condan, Kimberly Henderson, and Seth Lind. Research help from Christopher Sutala. Music help from Damen Gay and Rob Gettis. Help on today's rerun from Angela Dravasi and Stone Nelson. Special thanks today to Vicki and Doc Drumming. George Green and the Unchained Tour and Brooklyn Loft Party. Our website this americananlife.org.

This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX the public radio exchange. Thanks as always to our program's co-founder, Mr. Victoria Malatia or as we like to call him the grape smuggler, the Miami meat tent, the dingling sling, the Sanrope truffle duffel. I'm Erica Glass. Back next week with more stories of this American life.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "My Summer Self | This American Life | Episode 594"?

Ira Glass (Host), Roy Lester (Guest), Dana Chibvis (Guest), Neil Drumming (Guest), Mike Birbiglia (Guest), John Lutz (Guest), Tammy Sager (Guest), Connor Ratliff (Guest).

What is "My Summer Self | This American Life | Episode 594" about?

The piece explores the author's ambivalence toward the beach, reflecting on personal experiences and societal expectations surrounding summer activities. It highlights the story of Rory Lester, a 66-year-old lifeguard and lawyer, who embodies the unexpected passion some individuals have for the beach and lifeguarding, challenging notions of age and pastime.

What is mentioned in this This American Life episode?

6 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Rory Lester, New York State, Sue Giuliani, George Gorman, Playboy Club, Don't Think Twice. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "My Summer Self | This American Life | Episode 594"?

The episode runs 59 min; the transcript is about 9,268 words in 72 timestamped sections.

More from This American Life

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 24, 2026.