Transcript

Richard Allen - Interrogation Analysis PART 2

From TRUE CRIME Loser · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 55 min · 8,677 words · 62 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Richard Allen - Interrogation Analysis PART 2", an episode of TRUE CRIME Loser published June 27, 2025 (55 min, about 8,677 words). It mentions 4 people, works and ideas, including Richard Allen, Abby and Libby, Kathy Allen, Indiana.

What this episode is about

This analysis delves into the second interrogation of Richard Allen, conducted two weeks after the first, following his voluntary meeting with law enforcement regarding the murders of Abby and Libby in Indiana in 2017. The discussion revisits the circumstances that led to Allen’s involvement with police, examining the tactics used during both interrogations and the implications of his statements.

Key takeaways

  • Sometimes the simplest paths lead to the most convoluted outcomes; a parking lot could’ve changed everything.
  • Richard Allen was cleared after a casual chat—proof that police protocols often require a refresher course.
  • Clear suspicion, like fog, can obscure the truth; five years later, a cold case rekindled over mere paperwork.
  • Innocence claims are often better than alibis; listen closely to the stories that distract from the details.
  • Waiting for forensic results feels like navigating a maze—every twist amplifies uncertainty when liberty hangs in balance.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: Richard Allen, Indiana, Abby and Libby, Kathy Allen
  2. – 10:00: Richard Allen
  3. – 15:00: Richard Allen
  4. – 20:00: Richard Allen
  5. – 25:00: Richard Allen, Abby and Libby
  6. – 30:00: Abby and Libby
  7. – 40:00: Kathy Allen
  8. – 45:00: Richard Allen, Abby and Libby
  9. – 50:00: Kathy Allen
  10. – 54:39: Richard Allen, Abby and Libby

Notable quotes from "Richard Allen - Interrogation Analysis PART 2"

  • Richard Allen did two interrogations two weeks apart in October of 2022.
    about Richard Allen · at
  • A couple days after Abby and Libbyy's bodies were found murdered off the hiking trail in Deli, Indiana in 2017, law enforcement put out a statement to the community. If anybody was on the.
    about Abby and Libby · at
  • Had sent off from the stuff they got in that search from two weeks prior comes back. And so they ask Richard and his wife this time to come down to the police station to talk about the results of the search.
    about Kathy Allen · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Richard Allen — Person · Primary subject (suspect/defendant) in interrogation analysis · 15 mentions · first at
    The episode analyzes his two October 2022 interrogations and the forensic claims (bullet extraction marks) that led to his arrest and later conviction in the Delphi murders case.
  • Abby and Libby — Person · Victims referenced as the central case context · 5 mentions · first at
    Their murders are the underlying 사건 being discussed; the interrogation analysis revolves around evidence allegedly tying Richard Allen to the crime scene.
  • Kathy Allen — Person · Key secondary participant (spouse) in interrogation-room interaction · 4 mentions · first at
    Her reactions and dialogue with Richard Allen are portrayed as a pivotal, revealing segment of the second interrogation, affecting his demeanor and the interrogation dynamics.

Places & events

  • Indiana — Place · Setting · 2 mentions · first at
    The location where the murders of Abby and Libby occurred, central to the case discussed in the podcast.
    A couple days after Abby and Libbyy's bodies were found murdered off the hiking trail in Deli, Indiana in 2017, law enforcement put out a statement to the community. If anybody was on the hiking trails that day, we would love to.

Full transcript with timestamps

You know me and I know you and I know that you know that you know me. You know that I love you baby. All right. Welcome back everybody to part two of the Richard Allen interrogation analysis extravaganza. Richard Allen did two interrogations two weeks apart in October of 2022. And just a couple months ago, the judge in the case for the first time officially released them, made them available to the public. So after years and years of wondering how' those Richard Allen interrogations go, all of a sudden a couple months ago, they pop up on YouTube. Pretty fascinating stuff.

The first episode I did in this series, I analyzed the first one. That episode is more than an hour long. A lot is covered. I would start with watching that one. If you haven't seen it yet, I'll link it in the description of this video. And then for this one, I'm going to do a quick recap of how we got here and then analyze the second one, which like I said is two weeks after the first one. So, here we go. A couple days after Abby and Libbyy's bodies were found murdered off the hiking trail in Deli, Indiana in 2017, law enforcement put out a statement to the community. If anybody was on the hiking trails that day, we would love to talk to you. We need all the help we can get. Please reach out. across town.

Kathy Allen, Richard Allen's wife, sees that either on TV or on the radio and thinks my husband Richard was out on the trails that day. When he gets home from work, I got to tell him they want to talk to him. Maybe he could help. When Richard gets home from work that day, she said, "Richard, I saw they want anybody that was on the trails that day to reach out. They want to talk to you. Maybe you could help." I'm sure Richard was thinking, "Yeah great. I'll do that. Maybe I could help." And a couple days after that, Richard goes down to the police station, says, "I was out on the trails that day." They they said maybe you'd want to talk to me. And they said, "Great. Thanks for coming down. We'll have someone call you." A day or two later, Richard Allen was driving somewhere. He gets a phone call. but someone from the law enforcement office saying, "All right, we'd love to do a um we'd love for you to give a statement,

do a quick interview. Do you want to come down to the station or do you want me to meet you somewhere?" Big mistake to give him that decision. It should have from the very beginning been a formal recorded interview at the police station, but Richard said, "You know what? I'm driving. Let's meet in this parking lot." So, the guy met him in a parking lot and they did an informal parking lot interview. I don't even know if it was recorded. And then years later at the trial, the guy that took that informal parking lot statement from Richard testified that after taking the statement, he went straight to a fire station parking lot, got his statement and report all organized, then went back to the law enforcement office, turned it in, and somehow after he turned it in, Richard Allen was mistakenly marked off as cleared. we don't need to talk to this guy anymore.

And then five and a half years go by. A volunteer volunteered to come in, look at the cold case from the very beginning and try to find something that would spark and get it going again. And they noticed, hey, wait a second. This Richard Allen guy was cleared way back when after an informal parking lot interview. And as far as I can find, there's not really a reason why he should have been cleared. He is the same build as the bridge guy. He said that he was there on the bridge wearing the same clothes as the bridge guy. Why was this guy cleared? And then the volunteer brought that to law enforcement and they said, "You know what? You're right. This was a mistake."

And so five and a half years after the two young girls were found murdered, they went to Richard Allen's house and said, "You know what? Would you mind coming down? We're kind of starting at square one with this one. We'd like to talk to you. Would you come down to the station?" What should have happened five and a half years ago. Would you come down and talk to us about it? Richard Allen agreed to do it. He didn't tell his wife. He says in that first interrogation, "My wife doesn't even know I'm here." So, he comes down and it's very simple. They just wanted to know what car did you drive, where did you park when you were out on the trails, where did you go, who did you see when you were out on the trails, what clothes were you wearing, and what shoes you were wearing. Pretty simple stuff. Richard didn't seem to be able to answer it, but what he did have were long winded, irrelevant stories that no

one would care anything about, especially if you're trying to solve this case. And after they listened to his irrelevant stories about the whole thing, they asked him, "All right, now we want to verify some of this information. We would like permission to search your phone, your car, and your house." Richard Allen said no, but they had search warrants anyway. And that day, the day of the first interrogation, they went and they took his car, they took his gun, they took a bunch of knives, they took some clothes from him, and they searched his house. Two weeks go by and all of the forensic that they had sent off from the stuff they got in that search from two weeks prior comes back. And so they ask Richard and his wife this time to come down to the police station to talk about the results of the search.

Waiting for the results of your forensic search is has to be a strange feeling. Bit hard to find a relaxing moment while you're waiting for your forensic results to come back. It's probably a lot like waiting for blood results from the doctor to come back. It's like, am I good or is it all over? Can't wait for the results so I don't have to think about this again. And so they brought him back in, talked to him separately, his wife in the other room and Richard in his own room. And then towards the end of the uh interrogation, they bring his wife in. That makes for some fascinating footage. But one of the things I keep wondering about is I don't know why Richard Allen would agree to do this second interrogation because he's not naive about the whole thing. He tells his wife later in this second interrogation, just tell him you need a lawyer or just tell them you want a lawyer, they'll have to let you go. And

so if he knows that and he understands that, I don't know why he would let them jerk him around and scream at them and put his wife in there and have him have the awkward conversation. It's probably his worst nightmare is having this conversation where his wife is realizing that he did do this and everything that comes with that. having that conversation on camera while detectives are watching in the other room. This private conversation, having them be able to pull his wife away from him whenever they want and having no control over anything.

I would just be too proud to allow them to do that. And I would have said at the very beginning, I want a lawyer. I'm not going to do this again. I'm not going to sit there and have you guys jerk me around for another two hours. But I was thinking maybe Richard made the mistake that you see where people think if I ask for a lawyer and refuse to talk, it's going to make me look guilty. I should just be the guy that's trying to help with nothing to hide. So, I'll do another interview. So, there's that. Or maybe he thought, if I just hold strong for another couple hours, maybe they're bluffing with whatever results from this search warrant they have. If I just hold strong for one more chunk of time, maybe they'll just let me go and it'll be over. But I would not have done e maybe the first one, but after it's clear that they thought it was him, I don't know why you would sit here and have to go through

this again, but he did it. All right. So, the first one starts out with them saying, "You're free to leave." All of that type of tone. This one, it picks up after that, but I would guess none of that's there because they do arrest him at the end of this one. So, I would guess on this second interrogation, there's nothing like you're free to go, the doors open. I would guess all of the tone had changed, but it picks up saying, "Okay, Richard, you know, we we searched your uh your house. We took your knives. We took some clothes that matched what you said you were wearing that day. We took your gun.

We um what else?" and he they said, "I do want to talk to you about one of the tests. We got the results back and Richard's on the edge of his seat. Think about hearing that. We would like to talk to you about one of the results of this test." And I don't know if the detective does it on purpose, but he keeps almost like wanting to talk about it like, "All right, let's talk about the results on this test." and then being like, "Oh, but first I want to ask you some of the questions that the lab wanted me to ask." Did you ever loan out that gun?

So, it's excruciating. I can tell that Richard is just like, "Just spit it out." Like, he wants to grab the guy by the neck. Just spit it out already. It would be like if a doctor called you with the results of your blood test and say and said, "Okay, so I have the results of your blood test and there's one result that is a bit concerning. But first, before we get into that, how are you? How you doing? This weather's been something, huh? Do you like music by any chance? I like music. So, all right. Anyway, well, let's get to that concerning result. Well, actually, but first, I want to show you this funny video if I could find it. Hold on. It's like 12 minutes only. Let me You would be like, just tell me what it is. They actually changed the rule here in New York where as soon as the blood test results are available, they send them to you. it's it doesn't go to the doctor and then the doctor calls you which in theory sounds

good but I had like my yearly physical a while back and so they took all the blood work and then I woke up the next morning at 6:00 in the morning and they had already sent me the results on my phone. Well, I didn't have I had a meeting a phone meeting with my doctor at 5:00 p.m. the next day. So 12 hours later. So, I have the results, but I'm not talking to the doctor for 12 hours, and I don't know what I'm looking at. And I made the mistake of googling. And I convinced myself throughout the day that I was definitely dying. It was all over for me. It's been a good run, but I am at death's door and it's over. And then I talked to the doctor at 5:30 p.m.

and he was like, "No, everything looks great." And I was like, "All right, well, I guess I shouldn't have Googled everything and felt a little bit embarrassed. I had such a bad day over it." But he was do the detective kept doing that like, "All right, well, so the result on this test is Oh, wait, one more thing." And Richard's going, "Just spit it out." But finally he goes, "All right, Rick." After Rick told after Rich told him he didn't loan out the gun or anything like that, he said, "Okay, Richard, let's get to the meat and potatoes of this thing, forensic came back and we took a 40 caliber gun from your place and they had found a 40 caliber caliber bullet 6 in from one of the dead girls foots way back when, five and a half years ago that bullet was found. It has been in evidence since we took your gun and they did forensic extraction tests.

And people I think from my last video, I know there's a lot of people that think this isn't real science and this is all BS and everything, but the detective said that they did test and the extraction marks from Richard Allen's gun. So, if you put a a bullet in and then uh cycle it through, the extraction marks on each gun are different. And the extraction marks on the bullet that was found 6 in from the dead girl's foot matches perfectly to Richard's gun. It's a perfect match. And that's the big results. And Richard kind of chuckles and says, "No, it doesn't. That's crazy." And if you think about it, going into this second interrogation, the detectives, they're I assume their mindset is, "Okay, we're going to bring them in. We're going to lay out this new bullet extraction forensic match report that we have." And hopefully at that point, Richard just feels like it's over and decides that he wants to take

control of the situation and confess and it just goes from there. If you're come if you're Richard, you know, you already did one of the you did an interrogation two weeks ago. You kind of know how it's going to go in in between the two. They've turned your house upside down. You know, they took stuff. You gotta think since I'm not ready to confess. I'm not confessing. The only other strategy that Richard has for this second one is whatever they say, the search results, the forensic results, just pretend they're bluffing because it's a possibility that they are bluffing. And if you're not gonna confess, that's really his only option, right? is just to say no, it's impossible. It can't be.

It just it's impossible. And so that is pretty much the strategy of Richard for this first chunk. While the interrogator is saying, "It's over. This proves that you were involved. There's no getting past this, Richard. It's time to tell us what happened. There's no explaining this away. This puts you there. It's set in stone. It's done. You were there. And Richard just has to say, "It's impossible. If it does match my gun, then you didn't get it at the scene or it doesn't match my gun." And it kind of just gets stuck in that loop. And it feels like to me that the interrogator was maybe banking on that he tells Richard the results of that the bullet extraction forensic test and that that would push Richard to the point where he was ready to just come clean. And when it doesn't, the interrogator doesn't quite know what to do. And so for the next about hour, he tries many different strategies to try to

break Richard, to try to get him into the the mindset where he's ready. It's over. It's time to confess, do the right thing, that type of thing. And so, but there's way too many strategies. Some of them are the ones that are just laughably bad and never work. A couple of them I think are pretty good and he should have just stayed with those. But as he went from strategy to strategy and was getting more frustrated and a little bit surprised, I think that Richard was just digging his heels in and pretending that whatever you got with the bullet, you know, that's you you got the statement, but it just it it can't be.

And so he's going, the interrogator is going, "This is scientific." And he goes, "Well, that's awesome. I don't know what to tell you." He goes, "No, this is there's no getting past this." And it was like, "Well, I don't know what to tell you." And the interrogator is getting increasingly stumped of, "Well, I thought that I had this this punch over the head that was definitely going to get him into the confession mindset, and it's not." And but I jotted down each strategy as they came out. And so here for an hour, here are all the strategies that the interrogator tried to go with to try to get him to confess.

The old the prosecutor and the other investigator, not me, the prosecutor and the other investigator want to lock you up and throw away the key, but I'm on your side. tell us your side of the story. And then he tried the are you the mastermind behind this? And I noticed anytime he asks Richard like was someone else involved in this? Were you the mastermind or was someone else the mastermind? And you you were just a part of it. Whenever he asked Richard that type of question, Richard's voice doesn't go up an an octave. He doesn't start doing bizarre stuff with his hands. He doesn't start picking imaginary lint off of his clothes. He is direct with his answer. It's not too many words. He's kind of witty and funny. He's confident with those answers. But anytime that the investigators talking about how he is bridge guy and he does match and he did it alone, all of a sudden when they're using that strategy, Richard

Allen's voice goes up a couple octaves and he starts rambling and he starts doing the hand gestures that they do. And there's a feeling that Richard is denying it up and down this whole interrogation, but it doesn't seem the level that someone that actually didn't do it. He's almost just denying it because he's not ready to confess. But it doesn't have the same weight and energy that someone would have that actually was being charged for murdering two little girls. Richard gets into this. You know what? The damage is done.

You've already talked to my co-workers and you've talked to my neighbors and the damage is done and and you're trying to trick me and it's like what damage has been done? you all the evidence points at you and so you've talked to a you had to talk to an investigator. They searched your house and they talked to your coworker. If you actually didn't do it and had nothing to do with it and the walls were closing in and you I can't believe it. I'm actually going to be charged with murdering these two girls. This is insane. I was there that day, but this is totally insane. I don't think you just say, "Well, the damage is done." you talked to my co-workers, so I guess that's it for me. Just doesn't seem like enough of a fight was put up.

All right, so getting back to the strategies that the interrogator used. Are you the mastermind behind this? He used the the truth will set you free. Pretty classic. And then he tried the I'm trying to help you. He tried to use that one so often that Richard started going, "Stop trying to help me. I don't need your help." And he used the I don't think you're the one that stuck the knife in them again, saying, "Are you involved in this? Blame it on someone else and then we can get you for being involved in it." But that one doesn't work. He goes with the balls in your court, Rick. Never seen that one work. And then here's the one that I think he should have just stuck with the hell with the hole. The truth will set you free stuff.

He says, "Why is all of the evidence clearly indicating you're involved?" And whenever he uses this strategy, why is all of the evidence indicating you, all of a sudden Richard Allen does this play dumb thing where he's going, "You're trying to trick me. You're trying to change my words around and I don't understand all of that talking about the the bullet forensic results. I don't understand all that and I can't explain something I don't have an answer for. And Richard Allen is not a dumb guy. And when they're when he's not doing the whole play dumb thing, he doesn't it he's not a dumb guy. And so when he does the play dumb thing, it really sticks out. And I've always thought that people that are living a lie or get caught stealing or get caught doing, watching an adult play dumb is one of the most sad, pathetic things you can watch an adult do. And I think when you're when people are young, it's

like lying is kind of a cheat code. You can just do it and then then the situation the situation goes your way. Wow, that's that's really easy. But then as you get on in life and you're living a lie and you're either lying to people or you're lying to yourself about whatever it is that you've set up in your life that you have to lie about, that playing dumb part has to be the most soulcrushing part of the whole thing. Sitting there acting like an idiot like you don't understand when you definitely do. It's got to be rough. Okay. So, and then but still no confession.

I think he I think the interrogator was a real uphill on a real uphill battle to get a confession out of Richard. I don't think Richard at this point was ready to confess because when you confess to something like this, you're essentially a scum garbage worstc case scenario person to everybody you know forever. Your wife, your kid, the disappointment. Just think of it. Everybody you know is going, "Oh my god, he did that. What a freak psycho horrible person, man. And so to get to the point where you're ready to confess, I think it would take a lot.

And I don't think that Richard is ready at this point in the game to confess. So, I don't think it's a failure that the interrogator didn't get the confession. But instead of going with all of these different strategies, the truth will set you free. Balls in your court, Rick. I think if you're not gonna get a confession and it feels like that, what you should do is whatever strategy is getting them on their heels where their voice goes up and they're looking like they're lying and they're playing dumb and it's embarrassing. Stick with whatever that strategy. Try to get like 25, 30 minutes of them doing that because most most of the time they show whether there's a confession or not.

They show the interrogation in the trial and so even if there's no confession, but there's a big chunk where they're playing dumb and they look like an idiot and they're doing the arm thing and that can translate to a jury just like a confession. And so if he would have just stuck with that, I think it would have been better. But he moves on with the Oh, yeah. This is I love these uh accidental philosophical gems that come out during these interrogations, but at one point the interrogator goes, "I'm telling you, you're living in this world." And I don't know why.

I don't know what he meant to say. Probably something like this is the real world or something like that, but what came out is I'm telling you, you're living in this world and I don't know why. Pretty philosophical, folks. So, there's that. And then, oh, boiler kicked on. Boiler got to shut the door. Okay. And then we're moving on to the old the media will portray you as a monster. Are you a monster? Didn't really get anywhere with that one. And then the classic, this is the day. This is the time. Never has worked in the history of interrogations. And then he went with, "I'm all ears, Rick." Sits back. Rick didn't say much. And then the last one he used was, "I'm going to call the prosecutor. What should I tell them?"

Oh, yeah. And then there was one more. You know, death the death penaltyy's on the line. I guess saying if you confess and you work with us and you come clean and you help give closure, maybe they won't do the death, maybe they won't give you the death penalty. And with the when he said, you know, the death penalty's on the line, Richard goes, I don't really care if you kill me. I've been battling depression for eight years. I don't really care. If you kill me, you're you'll make my wife rich. What I assume he's talking about is life insurance. But would life insurance pay out if you're executed by the government because you were sentenced to death?

That'd probably be a weird call to your insurance. Yes, I'd like to claim my husband's life insurance. All right. Well, how did he die? Um, well, okay. So, for a full hour, all of those strategies are used. It's actually probably the easiest hour for Richard because it's much easier to just say, "No, it's impossible. Could no way could have happened. Didn't happen. I don't believe I don't believe the bullet science. I don't believe that couldn't happen." It's actually easier to just deny deny. Nope. Then the first interrogation where they want you to tell stories or they want specific answers.

What car did you drive? Where did you park? Because if you don't want to give that answer, you got to say something. And then when the answer is totally irrelevant, it doesn't look good. He doesn't have to go with irrelevant stories because it's just it can't be. It's impossible. stuff like that. And so the interrogator I think has the uphill battle. Speaking of the the first interrogation with the story, someone made a comment on my the first episode in this that thinks Richard is guilty saying, "Well, would you know where you parked five years ago at a comedy club that you pulled up in?" And I probably would. I can remember parking.

It just sticks in my head. And even uh more than that, it thinking about this case. Two years ago, my wife and I were in the Burkshere region of Massachusetts for a little weekend getaway and we went to hiking trails exactly like these deli ones where the murder happened. And so it's been two years. I haven't thought about it. It wasn't even close to as memorable of a day as Richard had where right where I was, two young girls were brutally murdered. What are the chances of that? That the right where I was, it happened the the same time that I was there and then you would think it would run over in your mind a million times and then he talked to a cop. So that would refresh it on the way to talking to the cop in the informal parking lot interview. You would think you'd run it through in your head a couple times. I'm about ready to tell a cop. I got to think about, you know, what I'm what I'm about to say.

And so I was thinking, all right, two years ago, we went to this hiking trail. It wasn't a forgettable day, but it wasn't really a memorable day, but I remember exactly where we parked. Of course, I remember the car that I drove and I remember all the people I saw because we got out and then started walking on the trails for 3, four minutes and then my wife said, "I actually got to go to the bathroom. Can we go back to the parking lot where the bathroom is?" So, we walked back three or four minutes to where the parking lot is, where the bathroom is. As we were headed towards back to the parking lot, we passed these two mean-faced older ladies and I said, "Morning, how you doing?" And both of them just stared at me. Didn't nod their head. Didn't say, "Hey, how are you? Just looked at me."

And I remember thinking, "Geez, couple grumpy Massachusetts hags." And so we go back to the parking lot and she uses the bathroom. Then we go start walking on the trail again. The two grumpy hags, we passed them again. They're talking to another guy, a tall guy with a big gut, but he was wearing shorts and he had skinny legs. And I remember thinking, it's kind of cold to be wearing shorts. But I made a big friendly show of saying hi to him because he was talking about to the two grumpy ladies that just ignored me. So I I made a I said, "Hey, how you doing?"

And he said hi back. And then on the trail, we were walking and we saw either two families that were just friends or maybe it was they were related to each other, but two two sets of parents and two sets of kids. And we turn around and they're probably I don't know 6 700 feet away. And right when they saw us, one of the guys made made a mad dash to grab the dog and quickly put it on a leash. And the way he did that, the body language, the mad dash and everything, in my head, I was thinking, I bet that dog is aggressive as quickly as he saw us and then wanted to put it on a leash. So, I put my dog on the leash. And sure enough, when we finally did pass each other, the dog is like the leash is as tight. They're holding it back. And it was we passed.

And I remember being a little bit irked thinking, if your dog is aggressive towards other dogs or other people, it's not really cool to take them off the leash at all. and just or to take them off the lease and just hope and pray that if you do run into another dog, you have the time to get them before something horrible happens. I was thinking if your dog does that, just keep them on the leash. It's not really fair to everybody else. But my point with all this is this was not a memorable day the way that this one would have been for Richard. And I easily after not thinking about it for two years could pull all of that up because one thing kind of leads to the other and you remember the people and so everybody else on the trail that day remembered who they saw and all of a sudden Richard's the only one. He's not a dumb guy. He's worked jobs that you would need a good memory. Most people

have a pretty damn good memory. There are people that have rare memory problems and stuff, but to have Richard in that first interrogation just not really be able to remember anything and have all the irrelevant stories, it it can't be overlooked. But anyway, so the interrogator is getting frustrated to the point where instead of just sticking with one of these strategies that's a little bit working because it's getting him to putting him on his heels and making him do the play dumb thing where he doesn't look all that good. He almost gets add with the strategies where he'll say, "I'm all ears, Rick." And then Rick will say something, "Uhoh, that's not working." and he'll just go on to the next one and it's not going well and he gets to the I'm going to call the prosecutor. What should I tell them?

And that one doesn't work either. And then probably the most fascinating part of these both of these interrogations, why it made the cut to do episodes about it on the show, is this is the point where they they're about to bring Richard's wife in. And they tell Richard before they bring her in, they tell her they tell him, "We're talking to your wife in the other room. We told her all of this bullet stuff that we told you and she's upset. And so Richard in his head, think about it, he's trying to answer the questions in the interrogation. It's nerve-wracking. It's a brutal process to go through. And all of a sudden, now he's thinking about his wife in the other room hearing this same stuff. I've said it a couple times. I truly think after watching both of these interrogations, listening to his jail house phone calls where he confesses where in those he wants to know, do you still love me? After he's doing the

confessions, it's like, do you? So, I think his biggest nightmare, more than losing his freedom, is disappointing his wife and kids, leaving his wife to fend for herself as they're getting on in age and essentially ruining both their lives for something this avoidable. It's like when the a police officer gets a DUI on the in the YouTube videos where and then one of them their wife shows up and she knows they're they're getting fired. They they ruin everything because you decided to drink and you you flushed our whole future. You're losing your job. Everything's about to change for us for that. And this is that. But times 10, right? a DUI is nothing compared to brutally murdering these two girls. And it it became the quintessential case and news story for this whole town. And picturing his wife learning that he did it and having her be disappointed in him and then not being able to help and

support her, I think is his biggest nightmare. So, as he's realizing, this is probably the day that it's happening. My worst nightmare in the world is probably happening right now. I think he loses his cool and his ability to navigate the interrogation and deny everything, but I think it was pretty smart. So, the interrogator goes, "We're telling her everything. We're telling you in the other room." and she's pretty upset and she's crying and you know should I bring her in here? And he's like yeah bring her in here. But first they come back and say she's having a water. She's calming down.

And I mean imagine what that would do to you if you're Richard. But finally they bring her in and they let them talk alone. The interrogator's not in there. Surely they're watching from the other room. But this is one of those things too that I would be way too proud even if I did it. I didn't do it. I would not allow the interrogators to watch me have that personal conversation with my wife to have to sit there and look like a spouse that's in trouble for doing something which is not a if you didn't know as as Richard and his wife are talking, you would think what this guy got caught cheating or this guy told his wife he was never going to drink again and he he ended up, you know, getting drunk and crashing the car. It's the same tone of a fight that you see any married couple have.

And what's so bizarre about watching them talk about this is it's the same old fight that you see couples do, but what this one is about, the two girls, it it it makes for a fascinating chunk of footage. So they bring him in or they bring her in and from the first hold, let me get to this part. From right when she gets in there, her body language is she's not on his side with this whole thing. She thinks he did it. She's surprised. He goes in a couple times to hug her and she she does she just like leaves her arms dead at her side as he hugs her. Come here, baby. And so she sits down. She's been crying.

And Richard says, "They're trying to tell me that you actually believe I did it." And I just can't believe that. And she doesn't respond at all. And a lot of this is just him going, "You know me. You know I could never do this." And she doesn't respond. He He'll go a minute straight saying, "I know that you know me and you know I would never do this and I know and it starts to get more ridiculous. this I know that you know me and you know that and and the the one where it kind of climaxes with that whole thing is he goes all I can quote all I can say hun is you know me and I know you know me and I know you dead silence I'm sorry you're having to hurt hell I'm sorry I'm having to go through that and a couple different times he does that where he'll go, I'm I'm sorry that you're having to go through this. And then he'll pause and go, I'm sorry I'm having to go through this. And she never once jumps in and goes, I'm sorry you're

having to go through this, too. And this is crazy. And I believe you, Richard. And Richard never once goes, "Honey, this I didn't do this. I know I was out there that they're pinning it on me. We got to get a lawyer. We got to fight this. It never it it's stays in this whole you know me and I know you and I know that you know that you know me and then it kind of a again one of the most fascinating parts of the whole thing when she's in there she goes this is word for word again. He goes, "But were you on the bridge?" And he goes, "I told them I was on the bridge.

I went out to the first trussle." And the way his voice goes up. I went out to the first trussle. He just looks like the classic dude that's in trouble with his wife. He sounds like it. He looks like it. He's saying way too many words with everything. And she goes, "I don't remember you telling me, so I told them you weren't on it." And he goes, "It doesn't matter, hun. You're not in any trouble. You didn't do anything." And she starts crying and says, "I didn't know you were on it. I'm sorry. You told me you weren't."

And Richard goes, "Huh?" And with a little bit of attitude. The only attitude she gave him. She's not saying, "I forgot if you said you were on the bridge." She's not saying, "I can't remember what you said about the bridge." with a little bit of attitude while she's leaned back giving him the body language of I can't believe you. She says again, "You told me you weren't." Which that's a big moment in the whole thing to for him to say way back when, "I was there, but I wasn't on the bridge." That's a big moment. And Richard goes, "No, I told you that I walked." And then he paused and there's a long pause and then he just goes, "I love you, baby."

Then he goes, "I don't know what they're trying to do." Again, this is kind of the playing dumb thing. I don't know what they're trying to do. It's not that complicated, Richard. All the evidence points at you. They asked you very simple questions. You didn't answer any of them. You told a bunch of irrelevant stories. So, they searched your house and you're back to talk about the search results. It's really not that complicated. So, he says, "I don't know what they're trying to do, but I know that's not what I told you." And he leans in. I love you, baby. He leans in to kiss her. So, picture being Richard Allen. You're going through this and now you're at the point where you're trying to lean in to kiss your wife, but she's not leaning in back. and she when you're saying I'm sad I have to go through this. She doesn't jump in and say anything and so you're just it it's a point in life that I really can't

imagine being in. And then it kind of slows down with them too. And he's talking about how the damage is done and they talk to my co-workers and he goes, "You know, I care about what people think. A lot of times, what's the exact quote?" Um, I don't know, but he's doing the thing. He's saying, "A lot of times I people don't even think what I think they think about me, but I still it drives me crazy." And that's been a fascinating part of this whole thing, thinking about it for the past couple weeks putting this episode together. I would really like to know what Richard thought other people, his co-workers and friends, I guess, thought about him that drove him to the anxiety and depression to the point where he thought about killing himself. And the main cause of this anxiety and depression is if some if he thinks someone thinks something about him, it just it really rocks him. I'm thinking what would it

possibly be? What's the worst thing someone can think about you? Yeah, Richard, he's a total failure. He's a loser. He's a phony. He's unsuccessful. Well, he comes from a long line of cowards and failures and losers and he's just a nobody, zero, unsuccessful, you know? I I mean, I like wonder what at a certain point, wouldn't you just say, you know what, that person thinks that about me. I don't agree. What am I going to do? Just have it ruin my life? I'm just going to get on with it. The hell with that person? Maybe it's a small town thing. I would say if you have someone in your life that the thought of them thinking someone about you ruins you so much like Richard, you got to get away from them. If they're a friend or if they're a co-orker, somehow it's not worth it. You can just disappear and slowly but surely you won't think about it anymore.

But pretty wild stuff. Okay, let me see here. Oh yeah. At one point Richard has a kind of an epiphany or something like it where he goes, "They want you to think I done it. That's what this is all about. They want you to come in here and make me think that I did it, but I know you don't. You know me too well. you know, I'd never do anything like this or even be involved in something like this. And again, that's a little bit strange to say, you know, I would never do this or even be involved in something like this.

There's never just an emphatic, this is nuts. I didn't do it. I didn't kill these two girls. Which goes back to what I said earlier. It almost just feels like he's going through the motions. Yeah, he is denying it. He's saying it's impossible, but it doesn't seem to have the real energy of somebody that was actually getting something this horrible pinned on them. This feels like, you know what, the damage is done. You talk to my co-workers. I guess it's getting pinned on them. Pinned on me. What can I do? And then she says the just tell them you he tells her just tell them you want a lawyer and they'll have to let you leave. And he goes don't worry about me.

And you can start to see hints of gaslighting and hints of manipulative behavior from Rick, which you can also see later in the jail house phone calls. But it's not really cool to say to your wife, throw a little pity party for yourself and say, "You just go home. Don't worry about me. I don't know what they're trying to do to me. It's like, yeah, Rich, they're your wife's just going to go home and not worry about you. You're just going to have a nice dinner and watch a show. Not worrying about my husband who either murdered two girls or is being falsely arrested for murdering two girls. Nothing worrisome about that. Gonna go to bed with a big smile on my face and a clear head of worry.

And so I think as his wife is leaning away and not coming to his rescue when he says when he says you know I didn't do it. She just looks at him. I think he then he switches to the all right well don't worry about me. You know I don't know what they're trying to do to me. And it gets a little bit sad. And then the interrogator comes back into the room and starts. I think the strategy with that is hoping that he could turn up the volume a little bit. The first hour was good cop all good cop saying, "Do you need another smoke break, Rick?" And he was going through the strategies, but it was a very soft tone.

I'm the good guy. I'm here to work with you. with the other investigator and prosecutor wants to throw you in jail, but I'm with you. And then when he comes back in now, it's bad. Cop starts to get loud, starts to swear a bunch. And after it starts to heat up a little bit, Richard goes, "Can you let my wife out of here?" And the investigator goes, "Gladly. Come on, Kathy." And then he tells Kathy, "Tell him to do the right thing. Do the right thing, Richard. you're dragging your family through this for no reason. And he brings Kathy out and you can just tell Richard is furious to have another man be able to take your wife away and say whatever they're saying her in the other room and you don't have any power over anything that's going on. And your wife not only is crying, but she knows what you did, what you're going to be convicted of in a few short years.

I just can't get over the situation that Richard Allen finds himself in. And it has to be surreal. I'm sure he thought about it. How is if it does happen, how is it going to happen? And then it's one of those situations where it's happening and he's in the interrogation room and his wife is crying and he's saying, "I love you, baby." And she's not saying anything back and the interrogator screaming at him with his wife there. But I think that was a good strategy by the investigator. I would have stuck with that and said, "Richard, you're gonna drag your family through this. You really want there to be a trial. It's gonna go on and on and it's going to be in the news and they're going to show videos and pictures of the dead girls and the whole thing. You want to drag your family through this or do you want to take a little bit of control over the situation and make the story be like, "Yeah, Richard did the

unthinkable." unthinkable, but he came clean. He gave closure. He made it so the families didn't have to go through the trial. It seemed like Richard was thinking about cracking a little bit. He got quiet. He didn't deny with the same vigor that he was that he was earlier when he said, "You're dragging your wife and and kid through this for no reason, Rick." But they bring Kathy out. And then the interrogator comes back in and Richard goes, "You're not going to get away with this what you're doing to my wife." And the interrogator says something like, "Well, are you, you know, I could see you're upset." And Richard goes, "I am upset.

Did you see my wife?" And the interrogator goes, "Do you see these [ __ ] two girls? That's what happened. You got upset." He's screaming, "You got upset and you dragged them through the [ __ ] down the [ __ ] hill and you [ __ ] killed them." And he's swearing I think a little bit too much. It comes off as a little funny actually. You got to use them sparingly to really have the weight. If you use it too much, it just you sound like a like a 12year-old that is learn just decided to cuss for the first time in their life.

But he's screaming at him. You see these two girls? And Richard keeps going, "I'm done talking. Take me to just just arrest me. I'm done talking." And he says that throughout the interrogation, but he doesn't say, "Get me a lawyer." So they just kind of ignore it. It's like, "If you want to sit here and keep talking, we're just going to keep talking to you." But finally, he goes, we're at the end, and he goes, "Arest me." Or he goes, "I'm done talking. Arrest me." And the interrogator goes, "Gladly. I'll gladly arrest you. You're guilty and I'm gonna prove it. And a lot of times these inter the interrogations aren't like in the movies, but this one kind of ended like they are in the movies. Gladly you're guilty and I'm going to prove it.

And so he was arrested. They put him in solitary, which was another big mistake. I thought it just wasn't needed. And it left a lot more speculation to whether the confessions he made. Made a bunch of confessions over jail house phone calls, whether those are real or whether he just went nuts in solitary. And then two years later in 2024, he was convicted. Jury found him guilty. And um yeah, there's going to be an appeal, I was told, in the comments of my last video. So that'll be pretty interesting. But pretty wild, fascinating interrogations.

I think that chunk with with his wife in there makes this one one for the books. Usually I try to choose more of the funny interrogations, but the fact that it had that in there with his wife just made it fascinating enough to make the channel. But anyway, I'm going to cut it off there. Love you all. Y sting Y sham. I love you, baby.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Richard Allen - Interrogation Analysis PART 2"?

Richard Allen (Guest), Host of TRUE CRIME Loser (Host).

What is "Richard Allen - Interrogation Analysis PART 2" about?

This analysis delves into the second interrogation of Richard Allen, conducted two weeks after the first, following his voluntary meeting with law enforcement regarding the murders of Abby and Libby in Indiana in 2017. The discussion revisits the circumstances that led to Allen’s involvement with police, examining the tactics used during both interrogations and the implications of his statements.

What is mentioned in this TRUE CRIME Loser episode?

4 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Richard Allen, Abby and Libby, Kathy Allen, Indiana. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Richard Allen - Interrogation Analysis PART 2"?

The episode runs 55 min; the transcript is about 8,677 words in 62 timestamped sections.

More from TRUE CRIME Loser

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 24, 2026.