Transcript

Wild Cult Story

From TRUE CRIME Loser · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 52 min · 8,690 words · 48 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Wild Cult Story", an episode of TRUE CRIME Loser published August 2, 2024 (52 min, about 8,690 words). It mentions 21 people, works and ideas, including Mormon, Mormon Church, Bishop, Mormon authorities, Mormon records.

What this episode is about

A detailed recap of the recent convictions of Ruby Frankie and Jodi Hildebrandt, plus discussion of newly released case footage, followed by a personal reflection on leaving an orthodox Mormon community and the emotional impact of telling that story.

Key takeaways

  • From court-room footage to confessional family lore, the public eye vs. private histories reveal different kinds of truth—audience-ready vs. emotionally costly.
  • A Mormon aunt’s origin story shows power dynamics can start with a kick: authority polices behavior, not safety; consequences silence victims.
  • Texting an invitation to confess: awkward risk yields five hours of raw testimony—authenticity often requires patient persistence.
  • Wealth, lineage, and institution collide: elite communities normalize harm, creating tidal pressure to protect the family image over accountability.
  • The 'heavy topic' becomes a doorway: initiating tough conversations can breach generations of silence and reshape personal faith.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: Bishop, Mormon, Mormon family, Ruby Frankie
  2. – 10:00: Bishop, Mormon
  3. – 15:00: Bishop, Vietnam
  4. – 20:00: Mormon, Bishop, Mormon Church, Mormon authorities
  5. – 25:00: Bishop, Bad Boys, Mormon, Mormon records
  6. – 30:00: Bishop, Mormon, Mormon faith, Mormon community
  7. – 35:00: Bishop, Mormon, Mormon authorities, Mormon boys club
  8. – 40:00: Mormon records department, Mormon, Bishop, Mormon records
  9. – 45:00: Temple recommendation, Bishop, Mormon
  10. – 50:00: Mormon, Queen Emma, Mormon Church, Bishop
  11. – 51:56: Mormon, Bishop

Notable quotes from "Wild Cult Story"

  • Mormon woman my aunt to this day and for 25 years they were completely devout participating members of the Mormon Church my aunt described them as we were that Mormon family…
    about Mormon Church · at
  • Going back and forth and then finally I decide you know what I'm just going to ask so I sent him a text hey Uncle I've really gone down the Mormon rabbit hole in the past…
    about Mormon · at
  • The church and all of a sudden when the word got out that she was ruining this good man after being groomed all of her friends in church wouldn't talk to her anymore her family…
    about Mormon community · at
  • And then she turns 18 and this is a big so right when she turns 18 that Bishop like came forward to the Mormon authorities they have a whole justice system and court and…
    about Mormon authorities · at
  • More harassed than she did before it's in the books now in the official Mormon records that the popular 34y old Mormon Bishop is fine and didn't do anything wrong and it's on…
    about Mormon records · at
  • My thing and I'm not going to let them ruin that and so it didn't ruin all of like the Mormon faith for my aunt at that point just because of what happened to her with the 34y…
    about Mormon faith · at
  • Knew it was going to come up and when it came up was my aunt I think for a wedding or something she needed what's called a temple recommendation and that's in order to go to…
    about Temple recommendation · at
  • With the high-ups you know these well-dressed powerful they all protect each other Mormon men in the boys club that is the Mormon religion and he was looking around and listening to the stuff that they were saying and.
    about Mormon boys club · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Ruby Frankie — Person · Referenced case subject · 3 mentions · first at
    Her sentencing and released footage serve as the catalyst for the host to revisit Mormon-related themes and then connect to his family's story.
    Of a story for you today but let me quickly set it up so a couple months ago when Ruby Frankie and jod hilderbrandt were officially sentenced and everything's in the books and…
  • Jodi Hildebrandt — Person · Referenced case subject · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned alongside Ruby Frankie as part of the case that prompted the episode; also used as a comparison point for authoritarian/abusive dynamics.
    Of a story for you today but let me quickly set it up so a couple months ago when Ruby Frankie and jod hilderbrandt were officially sentenced and everything's in the books and…
  • Joseph Smith — Person · Referenced historical figure · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned in connection with a scripture passage about plural marriage that catalyzed the uncle's doubts and eventual exit trajectory.
    Remember right and it had something that he read it said that something like Emma needs to let Joseph Smith have as many wives as he wants or something or God was going to…
  • Queen Emma — Person · Referenced historical figure · 2 mentions · first at
    Raised during the uncle's 'spiritual crisis' when reading a passage about Emma and Joseph Smith, triggering doubts about Mormon scripture/values.
    But learn it and study it and he gets to this part that he had never read before and it was something to do with Joseph Smith's wife was is named Emma if I remember right and…

Companies & orgs

  • Mormon Church — Organization · Core topic · 4 mentions · first at
    The institution is portrayed as shaping members' lives, handling abuse allegations internally, and enforcing conformity via interviews, records, and social consequences.
  • Mormon authorities — Organization · Core topic (institutional actors) · 2 mentions · first at
    They are portrayed as running internal justice/discipline, refusing to reopen the case, and protecting the bishop while marginalizing the uncle.
  • Mormon community — Organization · Core topic (social system) · 2 mentions · first at
    Depicted as a tight social network that can provide belonging but also enforce conformity through shunning and reputation pressure.
  • Mormon records department — Organization · Referenced institutional unit · 2 mentions · first at
    Mentioned as the place where sensitive permanent files are kept; a friend there reports the aunt's file is missing/vaulted.
    Hey we know somebody you know they know people they're they're in it we know someone we have a good friend that works in the records department that has access to these files…
  • BYU — Organization · Referenced institution · 1 mention · first at
    The cousin attends BYU while trying to 'pray the gay away,' illustrating the intersection of education, faith, and sexuality in Mormon life.
    To do you got this we can get through this we got it and so he goes all of his undergrad he went to BYU trying to pray the gay away it obviously didn't work he's a very smart…
  • Dairy Queen — Organization · Referenced employer (anecdotal) · 2 mentions · first at
    Represents the aunt's precarious independence after being kicked out at 16, highlighting the material consequences of her situation.
    Gets a job at Dairy Queen like the fast food ice cream place and she's totally supporting herself with her Dairy Queen job think about the apartment that you can afford if all…

Concepts & topics

  • Mormon — Concept · Core topic · 23 mentions · first at
    The episode centers on lived experiences inside Mormonism, including abuse, social control, records, and the process of leaving the faith/community.
  • Bishop — Concept · Core topic · 35 mentions · first at
    Bishops are depicted as gatekeepers (temple recommend interviews) and as potential abusers protected by internal church processes.
    In the past couple months following this news story and I'm interested what was it like to sit down with a bishop and tell them you know we're out of here we're done and what was The Bishop's response back to you and so I send off the.
  • Mormon records — Concept · Core topic · 2 mentions · first at
    Permanent church records are described as powerful, hard to access, and allegedly manipulated to protect leaders and blame victims.
  • Temple recommendation — Concept · Core topic · 5 mentions · first at
    Used to illustrate worthiness interviews, social shame, and how LGBTQ family relationships can threaten access to temple participation.
  • Mormon boys club — Concept · Core topic (power structure) · 2 mentions · first at
    Used to describe male-dominated advancement and mutual protection among leaders, especially in handling abuse allegations and excluding dissenters.
  • Mormon faith — Concept · Core topic · 1 mention · first at
    The narrative contrasts personal faith with institutional harm—especially the aunt's attempt not to let abuse 'ruin' her faith.
  • Mormon family — Concept · Core topic (identity/ideal) · 5 mentions · first at
    Represents the idealized 'perfect' Mormon household that the aunt and uncle tried to embody, and the costs of failing or leaving that ideal.
    25 years they were completely devout participating members of the Mormon Church my aunt described them as we were that Mormon family they took the religious text as literal my…
  • Court of Love — Concept · Core topic (institutional process) · 1 mention · first at
    Described as an internal church court where the aunt was questioned by men in a way framed as coercive and humiliating, while protecting the bishop.
    She had to like make an appearance at within the Mormon church is called the court of love if that's true that has to be the most orwellian thing I've heard a long time so now she's 18 years old it's been going on since she was 13 and she's.
  • Bad Boys — Concept · Anecdotal motif · 3 mentions · first at
    Used to describe a period where the aunt dated 'bad boys' who, in her view, helped deter the bishop from contacting her.
    And like he always does showing up and knocking on her door again and knocking on the door but her new bad boy motorcycle boyfriend opens the door yeah can I help you no.

Places & events

  • Utah — Place · Primary setting (referenced) · 2 mentions · first at
    Utah is presented as 'Mormon country' where the family lives and where church power networks and community pressure are concentrated.
    Line to what actually happened and my uncle is has some power in the church at that point he's not a nobody they live in Utah he can pick up the phone and make a phone call and…
  • Vietnam — Place · Referenced location (backstory) · 2 mentions · first at
    Mentioned as the place the aunt's brother returned from, contextualizing his trauma and violent threat against her.
    She doesn't it's like her whole childhood at this point and right about that time she's 16 years old her brother comes home from Vietnam and she said he came home just a…

Full transcript with timestamps

hey folks welcome back so I have a hell of a story for you today but let me quickly set it up so a couple months ago when Ruby Frankie and jod hilderbrandt were officially sentenced and everything's in the books and they're sent off to prison right after that they released all of the footage relating to the case so all of a sudden the public could watch the arrest body cam footage the short interrogations they both did listen to the jailhouse phone calls fascinating stuff so I'm thinking I got to do an episode about this I had covered the whole Saga this would be a perfect final episode to my coverage of this case so I start working on that episode and while I'm working on that episode I have a thought my uncle my mom's brother two years before I was born met and fell in love and married a Mormon woman my aunt to this day and for 25 years they were completely devout participating members of the Mormon

Church my aunt described them as we were that Mormon family they took the religious text as literal my uncle was actually Rising quickly up the ranks to become a bishop himself and then all of a sudden they left the church it was over they lost their friends their Community they never talked to family again and just like that it was done so I'm thinking while I'm working on this final episode for my Ruby Frankie jod hildbrand coverage it would be a really interesting story to end this that episode by telling H what it was like for my uncle being where they were in the church to have the conversation with the bishop we're out of here we're leaving and I was interested what was The Bishop's response to them saying that what their response was to the bishop I thought that that would be really interesting but I had never talked to him about it before it's really a heavy subject who knows if they

even want to talk to me about it so I was going back and forth should I text my uncle and see if he wants to tell me about it or I don't know maybe they just want to leave it in the past maybe they don't feel like talking about it I'm going back and forth and then finally I decide you know what I'm just going to ask so I sent him a text hey Uncle I've really gone down the Mormon rabbit hole in the past couple months following this news story and I'm interested what was it like to sit down with a bishop and tell them you know we're out of here we're done and what was The Bishop's response back to you and so I send off the text and an hour goes by and another hour goes by and he doesn't text me back and I start really regretting sending it I was thinking man it's just too heavy of a topic why would they want to talk to me about it I wish I wouldn't have sent the text darn it and my wife is

going no no no it's fine just give them a couple hours I'm sure it's fine and she was right a couple hours go by my uncle text me back and he said we'd love to talk to you about it Scott call us tomorrow morning we were at a movie so I called him the next morning and we talked for five straight hours I had never talked to him about all this stuff before and they told me a wild story and so I took that five hours and condensed it these are the stories from the five hours that really stuck with me and I'm going to tell you guys today so sit back grab a coffee here we go so they said for it to make sense what was going on at the end and talking to the bishop and everything you got to start from the very beginning for that to make sense and so my aunt who was brought up in the church my uncle converted when they got married but my aunt grew up in a Mormon family and so they they said she's got

to start so they still live in Mormon country they got a nice house a little pool in the backyard so they both got their coffee which they're allowed to drink now and they're sitting by their pool in the backyard and they tell me this story and so I didn't even know my aunt told me she comes from a extremely wealthy respected Mormon family in Utah to the point where her grandfather there's still one and possibly two statues of him at predominant Mormon locations in Utah and they owned properties and land and like a real deal Rich powerful Mormon family in Utah and the first story of her childhood that really stuck with me is she said she was at the church and there was either a bishop or some sort of adult authority figure from the church overseeing a bunch of kids it was like a Sunday school religious Class Type Thing and it was during the Halloween season and there was a Halloween decoration a

spider that was attached to an elastic string that was attached to the ceiling and my aunt is a small kid and she's pulling down the spider which is attached to the elastic and then letting go and it bounces up and you know bounces on the elastic string so she's doing that and the the teacher with the church comes over the adult in the room comes over and says don't do that go sit down and so she goes okay and then goes to do it one more time just before she goes and sits down she pulls it down again and lets it Go and it just bounces up when she let it go after he had said don't do that the guy walks over and kicks her so hard she pees her pants and then her first reaction was she snuck out ran home without telling anybody quickly changed her clothes hid the soiled clothes didn't tell her parents and even as a small child she knew if she told her parents or if she brought it up that she would be the one

in trouble they wouldn't say wait he kicked you are you serious all right well we're going to go down there and I'm calling the cops and that is completely unacceptable there was none of that she knew to just keep her mouth shut and that reminded me a little bit of the like jod Hill de Brandt stuff where she goes we can't even you can't even raise your kids anymore and so that was the first story that stuck out to me when she was a small kid getting kicked so hard she peed her pants then a couple years go by and a new charismatic 34 yearold Bishop comes on to their Ward I think it's called but anyway there's a new charismatic 34y old Bishop on the scene and everybody really likes him and takes to him and that he's really got a good tone and he is perfect for our award and everybody really likes him to the point where my aunt's wealthy powerful family they're making this big land purchase

and they tell the new 34 year-old charismatic Bishop you know what why don't you come into this buy into this land we're going to give you a good deal we're going to make sure it's worth your while we're going to set you up we want to help you out we're going to buy all this land so now not only is he the religious Authority on scene now but he's actually in business with my aunt's family in this land deal that they bought and right about that time my aunt turns 13 years old and when you turn 13 years old my aunt said they have a young woman's Club basically like a young Mormon Women's Club where it's like 13 14 and 15 year olds or maybe 12 13 and 14 it's these three years young teens you all get together at the church and you you just hang out and you do Church stuff and you do non-church stuff and it's just supposed to be a good time hanging out with kids your age and so my aunt turns

13 starts going to the young woman's club and within the first couple meetings she's there they pull her aside and they say you've really showed leadership so far and we want to offer you to be the president of this young Mormons club and it's responsib ability but we think you can handle it and we think you would be perfect for it and my young Aunt being 13 years old I think was a little bit flattered and said okay I could be the president all right I I don't know if I can do it but I'm willing to try and I it's something that I think I can think I can learn even if I don't know how so I accept I will be the president of the young woman's Mormon club and they say great and they they told her okay so one of your duties or one of the things you got to do as the president is each week you're going to go and meet with the bishop the new 34 year-old charismatic Bishop it happened to be you got to go meet with

the bishop you're going to talk about how things are going in the club what's next all of that stuff and so she says okay great and so she goes in to the young charismatic popular Bishop's office and they're having a conversation how's the club going what goal do they want to meet what's the plans for it and so on everything's normal what you think and then that that first meeting comes to an end so my aunt says okay I'll see you later and goes to leave his office and when she's at the door he asks her could I give you a hug and my 13-year-old aunt was like yeah I guess all right sure and he gets up and he hugged her for a really long time and the long hugs continued on the next meetings that they would do and then the long hugs turned into this 34-year-old charismatic popular Bishop telling my 13-year-old aunt that if they lived in different time periods they would be married if they were the same

age no one loves her like him and this new bishop on the scene that everybody loved he had a family and he was married slowly but surely and meticulously groomed my aunt she's 13 years old until they're having you know I don't want my the video to get flush but until he was fully sexually assaulting her and they had this relationship and it continues and it's you know it's not my aunt is kind of doesn't even she's just bewildered by what is happening and what's going on and my aunt's mom and the popular Bishop who is now grooming her and assaulting her his wife both know about it and so his wife is giving The Bishop's Wife is giving my young Aunt you know attitude and the side eye and my aunt's Mom is calling her a delight Ila and a temptress and saying you're ruining this good man stop tempting him everybody's telling her it's her fault and she doesn't know anything else she doesn't have anything to compare it

to so she's just hearing the adults and everyone tell her you're a temptress you're a awful person you're ruining this good man he's a good man and it the relationship between them continues so she turns you know 13 and then 14 and 15 and 16 and it's still going going on and she doesn't it's like her whole childhood at this point and right about that time she's 16 years old her brother comes home from Vietnam and she said he came home just a psychotic alcoholic and my aunt's mom told her son that just got home from Vietnam you know what your sister's doing she's corrupting and tempting and ruining this good man the bishop can you believe that and so right about that time my aunt who had turned 16 had bought her first car she had had some little job and she bought herself a car and was in the driveway washing it 16 years old first car sunny day should be a great time and her brother that

just got back from Vietnam came with his car pulled around purposely like gunned it and shot up a bunch of rocks and hit her car so she's going what are you doing you're hitting my car with rocks and then he gets out of his car walks up to her grabs her slams her on her back puts a gun to her face and says if you tempt that good man that good Bishop again I will kill you and imagine you're laying on your back your brother has a gun to your face you just shot rocks at your car she's going okay I mean I don't even really you know she didn't explain it but she's like I don't want him to come around and one of the most just infuriating things is slowly but surely all of my aunt said she only had friends within the church and all of a sudden when the word got out that she was ruining this good man after being groomed all of her friends in church wouldn't talk to her anymore her family wasn't on her side so

all of a sudden basically nobody wanted anything to do with her would talk to her she had no friends oh hold on a second the boiler kicked on shut this door she had no friends and the only person that would talk to her was this bishop so as much as she would be like I never want to talk to him again I don't want to do this I can't believe how long it's been going it's over it's done and then no one would talk to her and sure enough he would come knocking or he would come calling and he would tell her nobody loves me nobody loves you like me nobody is behind you the way I'm behind you and if you think about it that was all in the plan to isolate her where as much as she wants to be done with the whole thing and leave there's no one else you're a 16-year-old kid no one talks to you you have no friends your parents AR don't aren't on your side there's no one and then that made it easy for him to keep her on and keep

the whole thing going 16 years old so right about the time her brother slammed her down and put a gun in her face she was kicked out so she had to move out think about that at 16 years old and from 13 she had been groomed and assaulted by the religious figure in her church and so she moves out at 16 she gets a job at Dairy Queen like the fast food ice cream place and she's totally supporting herself with her Dairy Queen job think about the apartment that you can afford if all you do is work at Dairy Queen so she gets an apartment in the rough part of town it's dingy and dirty and Sleazy and it's this gross dirty one room apartment and so think about it at 16 years old she went from living in a wealthy powerful Mormon family to being groomed and then a short few years later you're sitting in a grow crappy apartment in the rough part of town going how the hell did this even happen how did this happen and the

bishop would still come over and she'd get a knock on the door and she at one point brought one of her friends to the bishop found him and to she brought a witness basically saying don't contact me anymore don't call me don't come knocking at my door I don't want to ever see you again I have a witness but he would all of a sudden she'd have a knock on the door or he'd call he'd always figure out how to contact her and so she said that after a while oh first before I tell that story so then that goes on for a couple years and then she turns 18 and this is a big so right when she turns 18 that Bishop like came forward to the Mormon authorities they have a whole justice system and court and everything within the church and so right when she turned 18 definitely not a coincidence the bishop who had groomed her since she was 13 come out came out and said I would like to make an official admission

on my permanent record to you know the court and I would like to admit something and he admitted to one count of adultery made sure she was 18 first admitted the one count of adultery he had a court hearing all of his men that are in on it it was pretty much a kangaroo court theater spectacle in order to deal with this so the bishop doesn't get in trouble for grooming my aunt so what they did is he came out I would like to officially admit to one count of adultery no talk of him being a pedophile and grooming and the real story but just I have I need to get something off my chest I did commit adultery and so that on his permanent record within the Mormon Church which is similar to like your record in the justice system like it follows you your whole life and it's very serious and so he came out and they did a court hearing and he did the big admission and it was officially put in on his

record in stone that there was one count of adultery and that's it and case closed well then she was brought in and you know I'm 99% sure I was writing all this down I'm pretty sure the court that she had to like make an appearance at within the Mormon church is called the court of love if that's true that has to be the most orwellian thing I've heard a long time so now she's 18 years old it's been going on since she was 13 and she's pulled into the official court and she goes she said she goes in into this room and there's 16 middle-aged men in suits and there's this giant really expensive nice shiny wood table and there's chairs all the way around it so these 16 men sit down in the chairs and she's on the end and to her this is the Supreme Court this is as high up and official as it gets she doesn't know she could say you know what I'm not telling you guys nothing nothing you're all a bunch of

perverts and losers later I'm out of here she's young and naive and she thinks this is the high court of the world and she's sitting there and for hours those 16 guys asked her every graphic question made her describe every detail and essentially got off for hours making her talk about all of their wildest fantasies looking back at it now she said they just got their rocks off making me talk about it she wasn't even she didn't even know at that point that she was a victim of the whole thing she didn't have anything to compare it to she didn't realize that though way down the road and so she just told them the story everything that happened didn't know that she could just tell them hey may I'm not going to tell you nothing see you later so she told them everything and so the theater aspect of the whole kangaroo Cor thing they made sure his record yep just adultery nothing nothing more than that sealed

done case closed and then on her permanent record they put all the stuff that she said and framed it and made it just the right tweaks where it's pretty much the whole thing was her fault and if it wasn't her fault she definitely wasn't a victim and there we go it's on the permanent record case closed this case case is now closed and so she Le left that hearing just feeling even worse and feeling even more harassed than she did before it's in the books now in the official Mormon records that the popular 34y old Mormon Bishop is fine and didn't do anything wrong and it's on her record that she's this temptress and and the whole thing and so after that for a couple years she said that she dated some bad boys like really went through a bad boy face but she gave him a shout out because she said actually it really helped the situation shout out to the bad boys I dated they're not it's not the greatest thing to always date bad

boys but for that specific period where she was she goes the bad boys really helped and it's a funny thought think about the Clean Cut wholesome Bishop slinking out of his house getting in the family station wagon and driving to the not so great part of town where she lives because she was groomed and her childhood was ruined and she works at Dairy Queen and that's all she can afford and the bishop driving over to that part of town and parking the station wagon and wagon and getting out and all of a sudden his spiffy iron clothing looks a little out of place in that part of town and walking up to the dingy gross sketchy apartment building that she lives in and looking both ways and like he always does showing up and knocking on her door again and knocking on the door but her new bad boy motorcycle boyfriend opens the door yeah can I help you um no just maybe tell her that I stopped by maybe bishop you should go away

and never come back and if you do I'm going to snap your skinny Little Neck how about that so she said dating the Bad Boys was actually really helpful for the situation she was going through so she goes through that for a few years and mid or no early 20s like 2021 she meets my uncle and they like I said quickly fell in love got married had a kid all very fast and my uncle so now my uncle's telling his side of the story too and he felt the need to explain how he ended up wanting to get in and wanting to convert and going full bore as as deep as you can go in the whole thing and he had said that he was really a devout Catholic when he was a young boy did the alter boy thing totally into it he said none of the the priest priests didn't touch him or anything but he was was a practicing Catholic in the same chapter when he was a young man his sister and his dad passed away not my mom obviously

the other sister he lost his sister and his dad and he went through a normal thing that religious people go through if you go if you lose a few people or somebody that's very important to you all of a sudden he was thinking if there is a God why would he take my dad and sister and so he went through a few years of living kind of a just debauched life and he was a little bit lost and couldn't couldn't just couldn't reckon if there was a God why he would let that happen and had some rough years as you can imagine well then he meets my aunt they quickly fall in love it feels really good and he's around my aunt's family and the family the happened to be around were Mormon but they were more culturally Mormon than like induit practicing Mormon putting the pressure on themselves to be the Mormon version of perfect which is impossible and it's depressing and it ruins your life and it forces you forces you to participate in

the church more they weren't doing that they were saying I'm a Mormon boy I'm Mormon but just living their life doing whatever they want and so he really thought you know now that I got a new kid and I'm married I do want another to get my faith going again and I do want a religion and your family they they seem great and they're this Mormon and it seems pretty good maybe we should just be Mormon and it was all my aunt had ever known and there's a feeling I think when when someone Grooms you and assaults you and you almost have the feeling of they're not I'm not going to let let them ruin my faith my faith is my thing and I'm not going to let them ruin that and so it didn't ruin all of of like the Mormon faith for my aunt at that point just because of what happened to her with the 34y old bishop and so my uncle was like this feels right and my aunt's like it's all I ever know you know I'm in and so they decided that

they were going to become Mormon my uncle was going to convert and they were going to raise their family as Mormon and at that specific point in time when they had decided that the Mormons that they were around they had great friends and the community was really good and they hadn't started to put the pressure on themselves to be perfect yet and they weren't totally involved yet it just was like the perfect amount with the Perfect People The friend Community everything just felt so right that they thought this is this is good this is this is right this feels right we we're doing the right thing this is perfect and that's why that feeling of this is right this is perfect let's get more into it let's go further let's get more involved and that that was like the springboard of them becoming fully devout fully participating my aunt said any event at the church they either planned it ran it set up for it cleaned up afterwards they

scrubbed the toilets at the church anything you could possibly do teach the young kids drive everybody on the field trip whatever it was their whole life was the church participating in the church and they started to put the the pressure on themselves to be perfect because I think what she said is if you're perfect in this life it does suck but then you get to become a God and get your own planet and there's all this crazy stuff in the next life and so they're starting to put the pressure on to live within the you know the strict authoritarian rules of the church okay so some years go by now my aunt is in her mid-30s they have three kids life is going on and my aunt has never really dealt with or come to terms with what happened to her what the bishop did to her as a kid at that point she still doesn't even consider herself a victim and there hasn't been the processing that needs to be done but she's very very depressed

she winds up crying in her closet almost every day thinking that the world would be better without her really hitting some low points and my uncle notices and finally one day ask her what is going on what is the matter and for the first time they really ended up talking about what happened to my aunt the bishop the whole thing and I think it kind of clicked with my aunt for the first first time maybe telling my uncle or parts of it that I am a victim and it was obvious immediately to my uncle what had happened he was going what that that guy that he and hearing the story my uncle had moved up in the church at that point like I said he was on his way to becoming a bishop he was financially successful so they loved him he's good-looking he's charismatic they just loved him at the church especially because he was financi successful and was giving them a bunch of money and so he not only knew the man that groomed my

aunt his wife groomed her as a kid he knew exactly where he worked where he was that moment all those sweaty old men in suits that harassed her with the questions at the court hearing he knew where all those guys were and he got Furious when my aunt told him what really happened I think she had told him some stuff about it but he had never had gotten the full story and so after they had talked and he had comforted my aunt and told her you know you are a victim this is not normal this is this and and he had thought about it and stewed about it for a while and then something snapped in my uncle and he went and got his gun and he loaded his gun and he chambered around and put his cat on and while he's doing this my aunt notices what he's doing and she's going no you are not going what are you doing put that away you're not what are you doing and he just is kind of blankly ignoring her and still moving

towards and he goes and gets in his car and she's going stop you can't go you're going to ruin your life and finally like as he's pulling out she said the right thing and was able to stop him and talk him down but honestly the pedo bishop and his gang of Creos have no idea how close it came to a mass casualty pedophile event and my uncle is 64 and well over 200 lbs so the thought of him kicking in the door with Mr pump action 12 gauge is a sight and I picture him walking in and just blowing away the bishop and all of his creepo gang of men that make sure he didn't get caught and make sure the whole thing went in the permanent records the right way just him blowing all of them away one by one while they're terrified and crying and pooping their pants in fear that would be a sight I picture either like classical music or maybe Opera as the background music while he's doing it but anyway he

came very close to going and just ending that man right there after hearing what he did so anyway let me make sure I'm not let's see okay and so at that point they're still fully in the church devout participating members the thought of leaving isn't even in their minds yet but something that became important to them after they realized what happened and that my aunt is a victim and it it's okay to think of herself as a victim and she started processing it what became very important to my aunt and uncle was to set the the permanent record straight so to get my Ants file and permanent record and get it changed to more of reality of what actually happened and to reopen the case for Mr ped bishop and throw out the stupid one adultery admission and get his more in line to what actually happened and my uncle is has some power in the church at that point he's not not a nobody they live in Utah he can pick up the phone

and make a phone call and someone on the other end will pick up the phone and so he picked up the phone and called that Ward and someone in that Ward and basically said this is what happened to my wife when she was 13 by your boy the pedo bishop and we want to reopen this case and set the record straight and get an honest description of what happened in his permanent record and get my wife's permanent record changed to more of what happened in reality and that to them was writing at least one step one tiny step in writing this big wrong right well he got to his surprise when he called and said we need to reopen this this is outrageous that he got off by saying yeah one adultery we need to reopen this and fix this and he was met with a Hey listen you know he's a good man he's a good man and we're not we're not going to open reopen it that's definitely out of the question but he'll go and talk to

his bishop and he's gonna pray on it and everything is gonna just be a a okay and he's going that's not enough that no that's that's the stupidest thing I ever heard what do you mean were you going to do this and they and he my uncle said he had been in the boys club that's what the Mormon religion is my even though my aunt had grown up in it and been a Mormon way longer you can't really move up the ranks if you're a woman but my uncle had been moving up the ranks and he's they're they're going sorry and that that was the beginning of him being slowly nudged out of the boys club everybody started treating him differently because they all circled the wagon around the pedo Bishop he's a good man there's no need to reopen the case he'll talk to his Bishop he'll pray on it and everything will be a okay case closed and so during that so they get turned down they're not going to reopen it they're not going to write the wrong

they're distancing my uncle from the boys club and my aunt and uncle realize hey we know somebody you know they know people they they're they're in it we know someone we have a good friend that works in the records department that has access to these files that it's very important like I said it would be like it would be like trying to access your criminal record like it's impossible but they knew someone they go you know what it's a lot to ask but let's ask our friends so they they contacted the guy and they said you know this is what happened my uncle said this is what happened to my wife from the bishop that we know we both know him he's he's still doing the same thing to this day he still has the powerful position when my wife was 13 years old this is what he did and he told the guy that works at the record that has access to all the files this is what happened we want to set the record

straight I know you would be risking your job and your career and your whole life and your reputation and everything you'd be risking it all you'd be putting your neck out and putting it all on the line but would you mind sneaking into where they keep all the records that no one has access to pulling my wife my aunt pulling my wife's record and photocopying all of the stuff regarding her being groomed and how they framed it to where it's her fault or at least it's equal it's no no one nobody got you know assaulted and there's no crime being done photo copy that part so we can see what it is and go from there again I know it's a lot to ask I know it's it's putting every your whole life on the line and the guy said I'll do it I'll do it and so he sneaks back sometime when no one's around or something and he's trying to find my aunt's uh file like her official file that nobody has access to that the

thought of having access or changing or photocopying something in your official record is just unheard of and so he calls my aunt and uncle they answer the phone he goes you're not going to believe this they said what and he said her file is missing it's not there I've never seen that before and so I did a little bit of research and I looked into it her file has been vaulted and not even I have access to it instead they're going oh man this is crazy okay so where am I going next okay so then some more years go by they're still in the church I would say it's like starting the slow down to leaving has started and their beloved Son is about ready to go to college my cousin and he comes out to them as gay and at that point he was as full devout and induit and as Mormon as they were so he didn't come out to them like I'm gay and he's talking to his Mormon parents he came out saying I'm having these

thoughts I think I'm gay but I'm just gonna we're gonna pray it away this is a test we can handle it we're going to pray the gay away and my aunt and uncle are going okay that's what we're going to do you got this we can get through this we got it and so he goes all of his undergrad he went to BYU trying to pray the gay away it obviously didn't work he's a very smart guy he graduated early on the top of his class got into all the law schools he wanted to picked the law school he was going to and then called up his mom my aunt and said you know what Mom I tried so hard to pray the gay away it just wasn't working and so I'm going to this new l school new chapter of my life I'm just going to go as a gay man and get on with my life and just be who I am and my aunt's going all right we support you we love you you know we support you and so he goes and off to his new law school New Life quickly meets a a man they fall

in love and a time after that they decide they want to get married well back in Utah my aunt and uncle know this is going to rear its ugly head at some point with the church they haven't really told too many people yet but they knew it was going to come up and when it came up was my aunt I think for a wedding or something she needed what's called a temple recommendation and that's in order to go to the big sacred castle that they call the temple you have to get a temple recommendation which is pretty much going and getting interrogated by a bishop are you doing this are you doing that are you surrounding yourself by anybody that's doing any of that it's she my aunt said it's an thorough questioning and she knew it was going to come up at that point she didn't think I'm just not going to go I'm GNA lie to this or whatever it is she would they were still in the church enough that she I got to

go and get a temple recommendation and the one thing she said too is say you go in and you don't have the right answer you haven't been living up to par well then you don't get the recommendation and maybe you miss the the big family event the wedding whatever it is that's at the temple and then you miss out on it and have to sit there and being like I missed my loved ones wedding because I'm such an awful person I couldn't get the recommendation and it's beyond shameful and horrible it seems kind of like yeah who cares when you're not in it but when you're in that world fully immersed not getting the recommendation is reputation death especially for the things that they were doing and so she knows she has to get this Temple recommendation she purposely she knew that there was a bishop that the word was that he also had a gay son that he still talked to hadn't disowned them hadn't made any rash moves and so she

thought okay I'm gonna go I'm going to book my temple um wreck in interrogation with that guy he should be more understanding right he's got a gay son too so she does she goes they're doing the temple recommendation she's being interrogated answering all the questions and it gets to some question that's essentially like are you associating or talking with anyone that's not living up to the the Mormon standard and she said well I do have a gay son and I still talk to him and I still love him and and support him and the bishop was like I have a gay son too and and they started talking about it and it was going well and there was this kind of understanding tone to the conversation and the bishop essentially said yeah the best thing to do is just pretend they're not gay don't ever talk about it just shove it away deep in some corner of your soul and just pretend it's not happening that was kind of the strategy about it and she's

they're talking and and then as they're talking it comes up just in conversation that he had my cousin my aunt's son had met someone and they were thinking about getting married and she thinks it was maybe talking about marriage or something but all of a sudden they're having this conversation and it's a understanding tone and it's moving along and then abruptly it made a turn and he points at her and he loudly said you're standing on Danger ous ground and the whole thing made such an Abrupt turn that it it almost didn't seem real or like that he was joking or it she was like wait what and he said it again pointing at her you're standing on Dangerous Ground and she's going what are you talking about and I don't know something she said maybe about marriage something and he just made this turn and then he was all mad and going I'm going to give you this Tech this the temple recommendation but I'm not happy

about it and he kind of grilled her and made her feel awful and she ended up leaving the temple recommendation interrogation thing just feeling horrible like Beyond bad and if I remember the story correctly she had scheduled to she had to meet with another church Authority in some sort of meeting after that for something and she just couldn't do it her body had a visceral reaction and she said I cannot I'm not going to put myself in front of another one of these people I'm not going to feel that way again and I think that may have been it for my aunt right there she had stopped going to church she couldn't bring herself to participate anymore and I'm pretty sure if I remember right that was it then my uncle it was kind of more of like a slow um more of like a slow but sure what's what am I trying to say his quitting and being completely done came more slowly right and a story maybe the funniest story from the whole

thing when they were telling me comes from him like slowly but surely leaving and he told me a story where Three Families my aunt and uncle and two other families they rented a cabin up in the woods and all went on kind of like a vacation and so they get up there they get into the cabin everybody's excited to be on vacation to be up in the wilderness they had all this fun planned stuff to do and the families are all Mormon but it's not a church trip and if anything maybe they're looking forward to not talking about the church or thinking about it it's vacation their their whole life isn't the church they do do stuff on their own and they want to you know have fun experiences and so it's definitely the vibe of this trip is not a church trip everybody's there just to have a good time enjoy the scenery enjoy nature and uh have a little reset vacation so everybody's hanging out in the cabin and

at one point everyone kind of goes back to their bedroom to reset maybe take a shower or something and while my uncle is sitting on the bed in their bedroom he's reading the Mormon religious text and he had gotten really into studying it and taking it literal and and there's a lot of it so it takes a long time to really you know not only read everything but learn it and study it and he gets to this part that he had never read before and it was something to do with Joseph Smith's wife was is named Emma if I remember right and it had something that he read it said that something like Emma needs to let Joseph Smith have as many wives as he wants or something or God was going to strike Emma down like kill again I might not be getting this right perfectly right but it was something to do with that and my uncle who took the religious text literally at that point was going wait what is this what do you mean this

would happen to Emma if this happened that doesn't make any sense that doesn't seem like the values that I know from this religion and so he went to my aunt what have you ever read this look at this the the Emma part what is that and she's going oh yeah I don't know I think I may have read it once but I've never put too much thought about it and my uncle started to have like a true spiritual crisis where all of the stuff that had happened before and then this and it was like the slow build of and then he goes down to the people that so picture you're just you know you happen to be Mormon but you're up you're in a cabin you're having a good time it's not a religious trip you're not even really probably thinking too much about it then all of a sudden my uncle comes down from the bedroom and goes do you guys have you guys ever read this part look at this part about Emma what do you think about that part and they're looking at

my Uncle a little bit bewildered going oh I don't know may maybe just don't read too much into it I don't I haven't really thought about it my uncle's going what do you mean you haven't thought about it look look at look at what it says about em I just I can't I can't square with that what is that and they're going listen just don't worry about it maybe pray on it or go talk to the bishop and my uncle can't let it go and he's going you guys aren't saying anything none of you are saying anything what do you mean pray on it no one is saying anything and he had like a classic where he sort of like popped and and was nobody's saying it anything why isn't anybody saying anything and then the next day he rode home with one of the guys they ended up he it was just though them in the car those two and the other guy was a powerful respected figure in the Mormon church too and my uncle again brought it up what is that I

can't get over that's not the type of values that I thought we were about what is that I can't get over it and again the guy was just couldn't believe my uncle is like what what are you doing man we're out here we're on this trip we're driving home just forget about it who cares we're living a great life and that was really kind of like when it started to end for my uncle and then he said that where he sort of ended up as he was hanging out with the high-ups you know these well-dressed powerful they all protect each other Mormon men in the in the boys club that is the Mormon religion and he was looking around and listening to the stuff that they were saying and it hit him like hard the only thing in his mind that he could think about is he was thinking these guys are either clinically insane or truly evil and that's all he couldn't get past that that it it just was anytime he was around he just that's what he would

think they're insane or evil that's after going as far into it as he did on his way to being a bishop that's where he landed and then so they ended up telling the bishop you know we're out of here it was pretty EV uneventful but all of the stuff that you would imagine leaving your community your friends everything you know happened like my Aunt didn't talked to her mom ever again years went by then her mom passed away and they never talked and just little things were like my aunt's family they throw like a big party a big tradition every year this big party everybody would come it'd be so fun and they called my aunt and said hey you know just everybody's busy this year we're not going to do the big family get together this year and my aunt's going oh okay and then she'd hear that they did do it and they just called her and told her that because they didn't want her to go and now they just live a quiet

life like I said they got a nice house a little pool in the backyard they got kids to visit and grandkids to visit and um yeah they're just happy to be out and to not have to put that pressure on themselves to be the Mormon version of perfect which is just life ruining so wild stuff I thought that that was worth putting on the channel I'm going to cut it off there I love you all see you next time why Sten y sham

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Wild Cult Story"?

Host (Anonymous TRUE CRIME Loser host) (Host), Uncle (Storyteller) — primary interview subject (Guest), Aunt (Storyteller) — primary interview subject (Guest).

What is "Wild Cult Story" about?

A detailed recap of the recent convictions of Ruby Frankie and Jodi Hildebrandt, plus discussion of newly released case footage, followed by a personal reflection on leaving an orthodox Mormon community and the emotional impact of telling that story.

What is mentioned in this TRUE CRIME Loser episode?

21 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Mormon, Mormon Church, Bishop, Mormon authorities, Mormon records, Temple recommendation. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Wild Cult Story"?

The episode runs 52 min; the transcript is about 8,690 words in 48 timestamped sections.

More from TRUE CRIME Loser

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated October 29, 2026.