Transcript

Festive Fiascos || Reddit Stories || Two Hot Takes Podcast

From Two Hot Takes · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 2 h 38 min · 30,589 words · 531 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Festive Fiascos || Reddit Stories || Two Hot Takes Podcast", an episode of Two Hot Takes published December 25, 2025 (2 h 38 min, about 30,589 words). It mentions 43 people, works and ideas, including Social Trey, St. Nicholas, engagement, Two Hot Takes, proposal.

What this episode is about

The discussion centers around chaotic and humorous holiday experiences shared from Reddit, highlighting the festive season's challenges and mishaps. As the hosts recount these entertaining stories, they aim to provide a lighthearted distraction for listeners during the often hectic holiday period.

Key takeaways

  • Belief is a powerful glue—until it sticks you to Santa's plate of leftovers.
  • Trigger warnings for Santa? Boy, the irony of adulting with myths is gift-wrapped here.
  • When religiosity wraps around Santa, even cookies need a Bible verse side dish.
  • Santa: not just cookies and milk, but a serious side of family expectations.
  • Sometimes, 'saint' isn't just Nick—it's a family tradition frozen in time.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 15:00: North Pole, St. Nicholas, Derono, derono.com
  2. – 30:00: St. Nicholas, Altadena, Anatolia, Angel Tree
  3. – 45:00: gift giving, Goodwill, NBA 2K26
  4. – 1:00:00: Freudian slip, Home Alone, Verbal abuse
  5. – 1:15:00: Am I the Jerk, Hallmark, Verbal abuse
  6. – 1:30:00: Betty Crocker
  7. – 1:45:00: American Eagle, Crayola, Nordstrom Rack, TJ Maxx
  8. – 2:00:00: engagement, proposal, Angel Tree, Operation Santa
  9. – 2:15:00: proposal, engagement, Two Hot Takes, Father Knows Something
  10. – 2:30:00: polyamory, polycule
  11. – 2:38:04: Two Hot Takes, engagement

Notable quotes from "Festive Fiascos || Reddit Stories || Two Hot Takes Podcast"

  • This episode of Two Hot Takes is presented by Derono. This holiday season, I'll be raising a glass with Derono, the world's favorite Italian lour and mine. One of my go-to holiday.
    about Two Hot Takes · at
  • You have anyone listening that you know is really excited about their friend in the North Pole, Santa Claus visiting this year, please skip ahead to the next story. I repeat…
    about North Pole · at
  • Affection he had given me in front of his parents all night and said, quote, His name is St. Nicholas, and he only eats his dinner here. Don't be disrespectful in our home. It…
    about St. Nicholas · at
  • I'm going to be honest like I think like Christmas has become a very Hallmark tradition. Like I know a lot of people are still steadfast and they go to church and they say mass and they do all of these things. But like I think when.
    about Hallmark · at
  • Involved in your community and I think like one of the things we did this year was Angel Tree and like that was so special for us. These trees are going to new homes and we're…
    about Angel Tree · at
  • Yeah. I think like if especially if gift giving is your love language and you are someone that puts so much thought and energy and time and like consideration into someone's gift like.
    about gift giving · at
  • When chatting about arrangements a couple of days ago, Harry made a throwaway comment about the engagement, saving him some time in relation to the rest of his Christmas…
    about engagement · at
  • Get his partner. I also pointed out that since he is hoping to surprise her with the proposal that it would become quite obvious that something was a foot if there were no…
    about proposal · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Social Trey — Person · 10 mentions
  • Dave Ryan — Person · 1 mention · first at
    So, on Dave Ryan's show that I listen to all the time, his daughter, he called his daughter because she he wanted to illustrate this exact topic really. and he called her and he said,.
  • Jim Ron — Person · 1 mention
  • Selena Gomez — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

  • Bible — Book · 1 mention

Companies & orgs

  • Two Hot Takes — Company · 6 mentions · first at
  • Hallmark — Company · 3 mentions · first at
  • derono.com — Company · 1 mention · first at
  • Goodwill — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah, literally, you can find those old gaming consoles and stuff at Goodwill.
  • Betty Crocker — Company · 1 mention · first at
    He's not you know Martha Stewart or Betty Crocker but he's willing to mix those things together and put it in the oven. it's just the effort.
  • Nordstrom Rack — Company · 1 mention · first at
  • American Eagle — Company · 1 mention · first at
    They're from I think I got them from like American Eagle and they're just so comfy. Mhm.
  • Crayola — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Like a can opener and a box of crayons that aren't Crayola and don't really write that well and like just stuff you wouldn't need.
  • TJ Maxx — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Now our limit is $30. But now people are buying like they're buying things from like TJ Maxx that original price is 30 but cost them 15 and you can tell they're $15 things cuz…
  • Instagram — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Beautiful, but yeah, I'm very short on time right now. But I love you guys. So, just tag me on Instagram maybe.
  • Father Knows Something — Company · 1 mention · first at
    I know. We went on a field trip. We are on the father knows something set.
  • Amazon — Company · 1 mention
  • r/trueoffmychest — Company · 1 mention
  • TwoHotTakes subreddit — Company · 1 mention

Products & tech

  • PS5 — Product · 6 mentions
  • NBA 2K26 — Product · 2 mentions · first at
    I found a decent Black Friday deal, the PS5 plus NBA 2K26 bundle for $450, and I thought it would be the perfect surprise. While we were at lunch today, he asked how much I'd spent on Christmas gifts, so things would be even. I told.
  • Nintendo Switch — Product · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

  • St. Nicholas — Concept · 9 mentions · first at
  • engagement — Concept · 9 mentions · first at
  • proposal — Concept · 6 mentions · first at
  • AITA (Am I the Asshole?) — Concept · 6 mentions
  • gift giving — Concept · 4 mentions · first at
  • Angel Tree — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
  • Verbal abuse — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
    Guys. It does start to get pretty abusive. It could be very triggering for people dealing with, verbal abuse and things like that. So, just a little trigger warning here. Please just skip ahead to the next story.
  • God — Concept · 2 mentions
  • Home Alone — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Quote, Holidays are classically stressful. Look at Home Alone where they have that huge house and it's chaos.
  • Freudian slip — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Self-aware enough to realize it or if it truly is just like almost like a Freudian slip. It's just like coming out. He doesn't even recognize, but like yeah, subconscious is…
  • Am I the Jerk — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Okay. This one's coming from Am I the Jerk? It's titled Am I the [ __ ] for calling out my neighbor at our Christmas party after she kept hitting on my son?
  • Operation Santa — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    I don't know. But there's so many ways to like give someone a gift and have it be meaningful. There's Operation Santa that USPS does. And there's I think he just probably wants…
  • polyamory — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Reasons you identified. There's not even any evidence his parents were embarrassed about the polyamory. They could have just as easily been embarrassed that their son lied to them.
  • polycule — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Just me word vomiting, Hi, nice to finally meet you. By the way, my parents are in a polycule. But looking back, yes, I can acknowledge I should have offered to tell them as a…

Places & events

  • North Pole — Place · 3 mentions · first at
  • Anatolia — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Nicholas of Bari, was an early Christian bishop of Greek descent from the maritime city of Pantara in Anatolia during the time of the Roman Empire.
  • Altadena — Place · 1 mention · first at
    New homes and we're kind of like sponsoring a family that we know that lost their home in the Altadena fires and like giving them a tree and just kind of like everything to put…
  • Bari — Place · 1 mention
  • Myra — Place · 1 mention
  • Patara — Place · 1 mention

Sponsors

  • Derono — Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at
    This episode of Two Hot Takes is presented by Derono. This holiday season, I'll be raising a glass with Derono, the world's favorite Italian lour and mine. One of my go-to holiday drinks has Derono in it. Derono 7 splash.

Full transcript with timestamps

Are you ready? I'm ready. JT, you ready? Yes. Hello to Hot Takes family. Happy holidays. I know this episode's coming out right around Christmas and Hanukkah just passed and there's lots of other lovely holidays.

Yes. Yes. So many happy holidays. So, I hope everyone is having a really, really just magical holiday season. And it hasn't been chaotic like the stories we're going to cover today. Going to be a really fun special episode. Team it up. We've got Justin here.

Yes. Starting us off. And hi, I'm Morgan. If this is your first two outakes episode, welcome. You're in for a treat because not only do you get Justin this episode, you're going to get Michaela and you're going to get Lauren and maybe another special guest or two. We'll we'll see what shapes up. But it's gonna be an amazing episode to close off this year.

I guess if you are having a chaotic holiday, well, this is a nice distraction. I would hope so because

because you can compare to these stories, I guess. I know. I thought our holidays have been rough in past years, but these ones today, I think, are going to take the cake

probably. So, yes. Let's just get into these. Let's get into these. Oh, horrible holidays.

Nice one. Let's dive in. This episode of Two Hot Takes is presented by Derono. This holiday season, I'll be raising a glass with Derono, the world's favorite Italian lour and mine. One of my go-to holiday drinks has Derono in it. Derono 7 splash of crayon and it's so so good. Everyone loves it. It's light. It's refreshing. And it just has this smooth almond with a hint of vanilla flavor. It tastes so good. You could just drink it on the rocks if you want. It's sweet but not overly sweet. Just super sophisticated and good. And to mark 500 years as an icon of the Italian Dolce Vita, Derono has released five limited edition bottles. Visit derono.com to learn more.

1525 the legend of Derono begins. Okay, I do have a trigger warning. If you have anyone listening that you know is really excited about their their friend in the North Pole, Santa Claus visiting this year, please skip ahead to the next story. I repeat, trigger warning for the big man up north, Santa Claus. Okay, are we good? Safe. Is this a safe space now?

Yes. We're ready. Mhm. Okay. It's coming from r/ true off my chest. It is titled guy I'm seeing legitimately thinks Santa Claus is real.

I support it. I think he actually believes Santa is a real person in some capacity and thinks he delivers presents to his family personally. I'm probably going to leave tomorrow because it's been a awful trip so far and I just want out. I'll call him Adam. Fake name. Adam, 25, is from a pretty rural area up in the mountains, keeping it vague on purpose. And his family are what I'd consider religious extremists. He told me this before I, 23 female, came to see them for Christmas, that they were very religious, as are mine.

So, I thought it would be similar. I'm not seeing my own family as I just have my abusive mom left and we are no contact. I've only been seeing him a couple of months and his beliefs have only come up minimally and Santa Claus was not a part of that. Lol. I don't even think we've mentioned it at all despite walking around Walmart with Christmas decorations and holiday stuff on shelves and him saying he wishes there was more Christian decor. Adam and his friend call Santa Staint Nick to start off with. He has a large family and we had a lot of regular Christmas Eve activities all day, including cooking breakfast and dinner with his family, sitting around and playing with the children, going to a church event around lunchtime. When we went to church, his mom would shake her head disapprovingly at some references towards Santa Claus that the pastor made and would whisper to his younger brother

and her nephew next to her. I didn't hear what she said. When we made dinner, she told me to fix a plate for Saint Nick and I laughed and said, quote, "Cookies aren't enough." And Adam shot me a horrified look. I felt the gaze of his mother and she gave me a sort of fake smile and said, "No, hun. That's not a filling meal." So, I loaded up about as much as I gave Adam and the men in his family and put it on a plate. His mom put tin foil over it and put it in the fridge in the garage. At some point, about 2/3 of his family left. The children went to bed. After about an hour of it being dark, Adam's mom told them to go settle in a bed so Staint Nick can have his dinner and start to deliver presents. This gave me the implication that he would start his night here rather than just stop by and have cookies and leave. I'm not sure.

His mom read a couple of passages out of the Bible about family as we sat around their wood burning stove, and we discussed my family situation a bit. Adam's dad then told Adam and I, as well as his little sister, to go to the guest house to sleep. It was about 9:00 p.m. I changed in the bathroom and said my good night to them and was about to walk out the door with Adam when his mom snapped her fingers and said, "Hun, you're forgetting the most important part of Christmas." Adam looked pale for a second before kind of nervously laughing and stepped back through the door, holding my hand. We went out into the garage where he grabbed the plate. I'd say something like, "She's really serious about Santa getting his food, huh?" Trying to lighten the mood. He squeezed my hand really hard and said, quote, "Yes, I'd say it's serious." We went back in to microwave the meal and we awkwardly stood there in front of the

microwave watching the plate turn around. I felt his parents gaze on the back of my head. I said something again. I can't even remember. Kind of light-hearted about Santa having a full stomach if he eats like this at every house. Adam gripped my hand harder than he did before. And the first sign of affection he had given me in front of his parents all night and said, quote, "His name is St. Nicholas, and he only eats his dinner here. Don't be disrespectful in our home." It sounds calm, all typed out like that, but the way he said it gave me chills. His parents didn't say anything, and I felt like I was going to cry. Haha. I left to walk in the backyard to the guest house and his sister was waiting in this mostly empty living room area in there.

She said she started the wood burning stove there and she showed me where to sleep, a twin bed next to her and said Adam would be in the next room over with his younger brother. I just laid down and I heard Adam come in maybe half an hour later and go straight to bed. I've just been laying here unable to get to sleep because I'm so anxious, lol. And I already hear movement in the main house at this point. And I don't know what to think. I thought after everyone had left, mostly small children, the Saint Nick talk would end. I think his family, or at least him and everyone younger, legitimately believes that this is a real person. His parents are really strict and live relatively off-rid and isolated. I barely have service here.

So, I'll see if this even posts because I can't even text my friend's SOS right now. I feel like I'm in a horror movie where they believe Santa is like a distant uncle or something. Does anyone know of any traditions like this? They killed a pig sometime in the last week as well as a couple of chickens and the whole family is coming back tomorrow and maybe it'll be less weird with more people being here. A few of his cousins gave me a more modern vibe rather than the rest of his nuclear family, but I don't know. I might just head back and stay at my apartment a couple of hours away alone. I don't think I can continue seeing him. It's just been so weird.

I'm like scared. I'm scared for her. It's giving a little bit Get Out vibes, but I'm the first guy that'll say I would love Santa to be real. I think that'd be awesome. Imagine if that were real. That'd be so cool.

I'd be so down with that. I'm like so into the fufu. Like I think like I don't know. I believe in fairies.

But it's kind of it's kind of sad to think it's not a reality, you know? It's like I like to think there's someone up at the North Pole and they're making all the gifts. It's like I want to think that the movie Elf plays out in real life.

Yeah, that just I don't know. There's something cozy and warm about that. But regardless, this is giving get out. This is giving. Why don't you have Wi-Fi? And

I the squeezing the hand and just the fact that none of this behavior has happened until now. Like this is the night. It's like Jesus is coming. He's coming to our house to grace us and sit at the table and eat the food we prep for him. That's it's being mixed with religion very intensely, especially given the religious extremist comment at the top.

Yeah. And so I just I'm seeing them sort of morphing them together or if Staint Nick is like the saint that's coming down and doing this. I don't know what else to really think about it aside from

I it seems like the start of a horror movie, but it really does feel like holidaybased horror movie where Saint Nick shows up like this. All this crazy stuff starts happening. That's not cool.

That's what I'm getting here. And it's weird cuz he did warn her at the beginning like, "Hey, my family, you know, they're a little extreme. Like they're religious extremists." So he warned her about that but didn't say like oh by the way like we also have these very strict steadfast traditions surrounding St. Nicholas like I will you know around my family I'm I'm going to be very into them. It's just it's easier than you know stirring the pot.

Is he as into it? Is he part of the the little cult? I don't know or is it just to appease? It didn't seem like he was so aggressive when they were walking around Walmart and like looking at everything. And like

I'm going to be honest like I think like Christmas has become a very Hallmark tradition. Like I know a lot of people are still steadfast and they go to church and they say mass and they do all of these things. But like I think when you go out and you go to a store, there's not a lot of religious Christmas decorations out there. I've seen like my first nativity scene in person this year, but like

you don't see a lot of like baby Jesus decor when you go shopping. Maybe that's just my neck of the woods. I'm in LA. Like there's not I'm not in the Bible belt. So maybe if I go to a Walmart in the Bible belt, it's kind of a different story. But

that could be his red flags weren't coming out then where like he's seen Santa Claus and he's like I can't believe people don't call him St. Nicholas. It's St. Nicholas, not Santa Claus. Like you think there would have been more coming out leading up to this

like at every uh Santa or Saint Nick sorry at every Staint Nick decoration he bows down and does a quick prayer

something or some imagine imagine doing that. Oh my gosh, all the decorations every time just

But it's like I I fully understand the religious aspect of the holidays and like I I'm happy for people that celebrate in that way that they find meaningful to them, but like this just feels very odd. It feels like he was just like so I don't know. Like he does seem really locked in and I feel like he should have prepared her better. Like even the sleeping arrangements, like OP walked in and is kind of like, "Well, where do I sleep?" And the little sister is like, "You sleep out here with me on this twin bed."

In that moment in the story, I thought she was going to walk back in. And I thought it was going to be the little sister lit the the fire and then she was draped in like cloaks and then she was going to do this interesting spell or ritual. Ritual with the pig. What's up with the killing of the pig? Is that normal? Is this normal? Is killing pigs normal?

Well, people do pig roasts. I get that. Yeah. But it didn't seem the way it was presented, it didn't seem like they were preparing the pig for the dinner. It felt like it felt like ceremonial sacrifice.

That's what it was giving. Especially with the chickens and whatever else they killed.

I feel like that's just like a lot of people do pig roast. Yeah, but it wasn't presented that way. No, I think OP is scared out of her mind and is now just like, "Also, you guys, there's this pig and this chicken and like I'm on SOS mode. I need to get the book out of here." Like, I think at this point you just start catastrophizing to where you're like, "Am I in Midsummer right now?"

Yes, that's another good reference. Like, this feels midsummer. I think you just start running. Run, run run.

I don't know where they are. They're in the mountains. It's giving Is it giving Appalachia Appalachian?

Yeah. for people like is this is where is this? It's in the North Pole. Where do you guys think this is?

North Pole. Antarctica. Is this Alaska? She said mountains. Rural up in the mountains.

Well, it's going to be out east or out west. Not right here in Minnesota cuz technically right now as this is coming out, we're in Minnesota.

Oh my good. The Flatlands. The Flatlands. So crazy thing is this post is 2 years old. So, this is kind of before AI ever took over Reddit. It's giving very real post in my in my head. OP did not use this account to try to karma farm. It was literally like coming in trying to get help and then like posting a little bit of an update for us.

There we go. So, we do have an update. Top comment is, "Sounds like you stumbled onto a Santa worshiing cult. Very strange, bizarre." Someone responds, "It's St. Nicholas."

That's exactly what I was thinking. How dare you? Yep. And someone responds to that. Yeah. Like, don't be disrespectful on our thread.

So, do we think that's what was going on at church that day was the pastor saying Santa and that's why she kept whispering?

Yeah. But how would she how could he not know disrespect St. Nicholas? I will say obviously a lot of people are like me that's fake. But OP does come back and provide an update for us. Also I'm so curious now Santa worshiing cults. Um apparently there is a cult of St. Nicholas a cults, but I'm like it I think it was like Nicholas started a cult. St. Nicholas. I don't know. It's It's confusing. If anyone I see this is where I need Kaylin. I need to be like, "Hey, have you heard of a Santa cult?"

Cuz is Santa tied to any of the religious aspect? They're not really interweaved, right? You don't see Santa in the nativity scene?

No. But like St. Nicholas. I mean, honestly, his depictions do make him kind of look like a modern Santa.

What year is that? Um, 2 270 AD. Oh, yeah. St. Nicholas of Myra, also known as Nicholas of Bari, was an early Christian bishop of Greek descent from the maritime city of Pantara in Anatolia during the time of the Roman Empire.

How do you get Santa from St. Nicholas? I don't know. Because of the many miracles attributed to his intercession, he is also known as Nicholas the Wonder Worker. He had extraordinary generosity, kindness, and secret giftgiving.

And he liked to make toys, particularly to the poor children, which made him the inspiration for Santa Claus or Santa Claus and the tradition.

What's the what's the origin of that? You know, Santa Claus. Yes. Santa Claus or St. Nicholas is a legendary figure based on St. Nicholas patron saint of children. Other Dutch names for the figure include desint deods and de go hilgamin.

Nice. Okay. Centerlouse. Sure. It could be Claus also, but it's giving Clouse. I don't know what to believe.

Okay. But let's read the update. Yes. So, someone comments after and it says, "I wonder if OP is still alive." OP does respond, "I'm still alive, not dead. Holidays ended horribly, and my relationship is over. Probably for the best now that I've had time away from him, talked to friends, read comments, because I essentially ruined Christmas." Staint Nick literally left the food untouched because there was a non-believer in the house.

That's why. and quote, "Adam's mom made a point of it being because I was there and I was essentially barred from seeing him and called a degenerate in front of his whole family." I really did want to make a proper update to this, but felt ridiculous and embarrassed that it one blew up so huge and two because everything I said was absolutely picked apart. I get it that it sounded dramatic and whatever. I guess I just write dramatically, but I treated this no different to how I write in my diary. So, I think this is it. I can't imagine typing out another few paragraphs of the worst Christmas I've ever had.

Completely alone with crazy religious nuts and in my feels only for it to be called a horror movie in the making. Like, yeah, I know. My life right now just sucks. I wish there was more to say or it was more dramatic for everyone wanting that, but I just don't have it in me. Wish I had a real family and relationships that don't suck. I wish I had answers for you of why his family is so crazy around the holidays and aren't normal people that let their son date girls outside their borderline Amish lifestyle. I don't know. The end.

You got to get through the bad ones to get to the good ones. You sure do. You really will get all of that, but you won't get that by staying in something like this. I mean, this was never going to work out, even if you guys distance from the parent. I mean, how do you ever get past that? Because I'm just still confused on how tied in he is and how much he pushes this versus it just being in front of the parents and kind of, you know, getting her prepared for that whole situation. But other than that, I just look forward. I I know it sucks. Like it's it's the worst feeling, especially around the holidays when everyone's together and this and that. But the thing is, it's for you at the time of this update. It's a new year, a new start really in terms of relationships.

And you can only go up from here when it's concerned with the holidays. You can only go up.

I literally like your holidays can only get better after this. You can only go up.

I know. Oh, I mean this is 2 years old now. I I hope OP is out there and like I honestly hope we get an update of like I heard my story and I want to update you guys that like

Yeah. here's where I'm at now, blah blah blah blah blah. Like like had two great Christmases since the holidays or whatever.

I know. And it's kind of annoying like how many people did question this in the comments because like I don't know why people are so skeptic when there's like a crazy unique experience because like this is not that out there. Like look at the cults that exist and what people get sucked into. This is not that far-fetched. And I I would have a hard time if I like I went somewhere and I was like what the [ __ ] was this? I need help. And everyone's like fake movie. But and it's like

I don't know. Like the update does make me think this is genuine. Like just kind of like I don't even have it in me to give you guys an update. Like this is it. It was crazy. His mom hated me. St. Nicholas didn't come. Non-believer.

Yeah. I mean unless not she's not karma farming. Cuz if you were karma farming, you'd write a big update to capitalize on that.

Yeah. I mean, unless you're saying, you know, aliens took you in the middle of the night and you went to other lands and had all these experiences and did all this and then you woke up back in your bed. Anything I've ever heard on this show, even if the story isn't real, it's happened. Okay. In some way or another, it has happened. It maybe wasn't written into Reddit, but I don't know. I feel like the weirder stuff is the more real it is because there's so many things and you know when I compare my life to Reddit there's not as many but there's so many things I've even experienced where I'm like this is so weird no one you couldn't make this up

but I don't know I'm all for putting out the stuff and the sparkles for the reindeer and I'm for leaving cookies and some milk for Santa. I kind of want to bring that back. I'm excited to have a kid to be able to do that again because I miss that. I know.

There's something magical. I mean, haven't we all seen elf the the holiday spirit?

I know. I know. We've um we've opened up a holiday advice hotline over on Patreon for a live show we were doing with Patreon. And so, a lot of people ask questions and they're like, "How do I get that holiday magic back? Like, I I don't like I don't like the holidays. I actually hate the holidays. It's a sad reminder." Or like,

you know, things like that. And it's just like I think you can like get involved in your community and I think like one of the things we did this year was Angel Tree and like that was so special for us. These trees are going to new homes and we're kind of like sponsoring a family that we know that lost their home in the Altadena fires and like giving them a tree and just kind of like everything to put under it for their families. So, I think there's ways to give back, but like even if you can't contribute financially, going and volunteering at a place that provides a Christmas meal is amazing. I used to do it every single year for Thanksgiving and sitting down and sharing a meal with people that don't have families, don't have friends, don't maybe have a home. Like,

it is such a it's a hard it's hard to describe, but it just is such a good experience. And I think something we're missing right now and why we feel so disconnected and holidays aren't as like magical. We have lost such a human sense of connection like we don't have a lot of spaces, you know? So I think that is also why I understand like the magic of going to a church and song and whatever like I I just think we need to kind of come together a little bit more and like share a meal

with strangers and people and give back. And so if you want to up your holiday magic this year, that could be a good way to do it.

I know, granted, this is coming out Christmas Day, but you know, go roll up. I don't know what time you're listening to this. Go roll up at a local little food shop.

Roll up. Little pantry. Roll up. Roll up. Roll up. There's always time to give back and connect with people. So,

if you're feeling a little lonely, get out there. Also, we're here. Come hop on the Patreon group chat. I know. Everyone's like so connected over there. It just it does it does feel really nice.

Yeah. But okay, happy OP is safe. I am glad she made it out. And OP, if you're out there listening, I would like another update. Okay, story number two for us here.

Yes, this is coming from our very own Twatakes subreddit. It is titled, "Is it petty to cancel my boyfriend's PS5 order after he spoiled the surprise again?"

No. I, 27 female, finally caved and bought my boyfriend, 26 male, a PS5 for Christmas. He's been eyeing the new system for over a year, but never bought it because we're trying to save for a house, and he couldn't justify the cost. I found a decent Black Friday deal, the PS5 plus NBA 2K26 bundle for $450, and I thought it would be the perfect surprise. While we were at lunch today, he asked how much I'd spent on Christmas gifts, so things would be even. I told him I spent a little more than 250, which was a lie, but I honestly don't like the idea of Christmas being treated like a spending competition. It shouldn't be about the price tag. He kept pushing about whether I knew what he was getting me. I told him I only knew one thing because he basically told me, but I didn't want to know the rest.

In the car, he kept going, insisting he needed to get me more because I spent too much. I asked what he meant, and he just said, laughing, I know you're a horrible liar. It rubbed me the wrong way, so I asked him to explain. He looked at me and said, "Which PS5 game do you want me to go buy you?" And then laughed like it was a joke. I laughed, too, because I was shocked, but I tried to play it off by saying he was being delusional and that I would never spend that much. He kept insisting I was a great liar. This isn't the first time he's done something like this. Last year, he ruined the surprise of an expensive pair of shoes I bought him. He snoops around the house looking for hiding spots, shakes packages, pushes and pushes until I'm exhausted, and finally tell him for his birthday, we planned for a friend to fly in as a surprise. He checked their Snapchat location and basically spoiled his own

surprise. Even this year, I got him a hat while he was at work. He texted me nonstop asking what I bought until I finally caved because I was tired of the interrogation. I'm honestly just tired. I put money, effort, and genuine thought into making holidays and birthdays special for him. And he acts like a spoiled kid who has to ruin his own surprise every single time. He claims I also always find out my gifts, but 90% of the time, it's because he tells me or drops hints because he gets too excited. Why can't he just leave things alone and let gifts be surprises at this point?

Should I cancel slash sell the PS5 or just give it to him anyway? So, uh, on Dave Ryan's show that I listen to all the time, his daughter, he called his daughter because she

he wanted to illustrate this exact topic really. and he called her and he said, "Hey, so can you tell everyone the experience you had about peeking into your Christmas gifts early and what that led to and and she kind of said,

"Well, there was one year we got really curious cuz it was her and a sibling or something." Okay.

And uh we just tore the we found out you could lift the corner and then see what it is and then put it back away because

Santa will bring us other gifts. So, we'll still be surprised, but we just have to know early what one of our gifts is. Well, lo and behold, they saw every gift that was already there. Come that morning, they opened it all. They knew what it all was, and they made the decision as young kids to never do that again cuz it just ruins the magic of it all.

It does. And it's like Santa or not, Christmas or birthdays or whatever the gift or surprise is related to, it it takes all the breath out of it. And sure, you know, yeah, you might still appreciate the gift, the surprise just as much as the recipient, but for the the person giving it to you, it it does kind of ruin it. I mean, like, if I think about any of the gifts I've done for you that have been more or less a surprise, you know, like wedding gift or things like this that haven't been things you've given me, that's been more I'm going to go get this special thing.

I it it does kind of, you know, it doesn't take away the the gift you're giving, but it it does kind of take away the magic of it. I don't know how else to put that.

Yeah. I think like if especially if gift giving is your love language and you are someone that puts so much thought and energy and time and like consideration into someone's gift like

to then be met time and time again with like you're a bad liar. I know you got me. It's like it just is so disheartening but at the same time like this is your person, your boyfriend, but you're like saving up to buy a house together. No mention of how long they've been together. Unless I'm missing that. Curious. But like this is him. Like this is gonna continue to be him.

I'm curious if you've ever tried to set a boundary and been like, "Hey, please stop ruining surprises.

If you do this again, you will not get that gift." Like I'm curious if you've set a boundary, but also do you have to like

Yeah. Can you just let him be him? For me, I buy people's gifts and I'm so excited to give it to them, but I don't like I don't ruin it. Like I think a lot of times I'll just like wrap it and give it to them early.

Exactly. Yeah. Like I was like, "Here it came. Open it." And I'm always like, "No, it's not the day yet. It's not even my birthday." And you're like, "Open it."

I know. Last year I was better though where I I did hold out and I was like, "Okay, fine. I'll wait." And like reading this, I kind of see I'm like like don't ruin people's surprise. I never ruin a surprise. I never tell people or like go crazy like this, but I just as soon as I get it, I wrap it and I want to give it to people.

But it's different as the giver, I think. Right. It it because you're making that choice to reveal that surprise if you want to early or if you want to break it to them.

Yeah. It's different as the recipient because you you don't understand what you're taking away from the giver. And you know, people could say, "Well, that's not what it's about. You know, it's about the gift. And if you're already giving them that gift and that's the plan, then give it to them like you planned."

Unless you've experienced it from the giving side, and I think you put it so perfectly with the love language. If you're if you're naturally a giftgiver and you like get so much from that, there is so much magic in watching them light up. That's not why you gave them the gift, right? That's not that's not the whole purpose is the praise you get back and everything. It's more just you want to make them really happy and you want to give them a genuine surprise.

If they hate surprises, then that's a different conversation, but you just want to see them light up because that makes it so special. Yeah, absolutely.

But yeah, this would get annoying. It does kind of need to grow up and if this isn't going to change and that's,

you know, it would take a toll over time. It I It happens not just once a year.

You know, there's gift giving throughout the year and I don't know. It's kind of a lot to

What would you do? Would you return it? Wow. Like if you're this hurt. I don't know if that's petty. I'm trying to like decide if that's petty or not because then if you change up the gift, you're going to be met with all this disappointment or subtle disappointment.

I'd really I'd [ __ ] with them. It would be like hidden in a closet, not under the tree. Like I'd give

And then you give something else that's like really low bar. Fake tickets. Give them fake tickets to like a sporting game that look expensive and then they're fake. Like you can literally print them off of Google images. like photoshop the [ __ ] out of it. I don't know. Like I would [ __ ] with him

and people are going to be like that's toxic. Stop ruining my surprises, [ __ ]

Yeah. Like I'd [ __ ] with him. It's part of the surprise. Psych. Not your gift.

I guess you could start cuz it's NBA 2K26, whatever. It's a basketball video game. I'd get him basketball tickets.

Oh. And then like Oh, wait. What What are those tickets for? Yeah. and it's like for like a a [ __ ] like fake ass court in the game. Like I'd make it about the gift, but I wouldn't let him have the satisfaction of being right. I' I'd kind of mess with him a little bit.

I guess if I guess you this is a point where you need to determine what the outlook of the future is. Is this someone you're in for the long haul? Because then that's a good strategy. start doing a smoke and mirrors thing where you really start to mess with them until you're almost teaching them to stop doing this and stop ruining all the surprises by making it so complicated that you can't guess. Just mess with them. But if if this is really taking a toll to where you're like, I don't know if this is my person,

then obviously that's different. Yeah, there are some of you out there that have definitely dealt with this with a partner. What have you done that made them stop ruining surprises? What have you done without being like over the top crazy? I'm like my idea. I'm kind of sitting here and I'm like, "Okay, Morgan, that's a little off the rails, but I'm kind of I'm just like annoyed at this

fart spray in a box." I know. And then you open it. Oh god, that'd be horrible. That takes you out though, too. So, someone does say, "Yes, it's petty. Why insist on a surprise gift when you know you can't effectively hide things?" and he clearly doesn't want to wait to be surprised. I suggest just telling him from now on that you are getting him blank for Christmas, birthday, anniversary and stop the process that will inevitably frustrate you.

It's not fun though. That's why anything. He should be mature enough to not ruin those things. OP responds, "Fair. It just sucks to be excited about getting him something I know he wants and would never buy himself."

Exactly. Someone else comments, "Do you hate him?" Yeah, it's annoying that he ruined it, but some people are just like this and don't want slash need to be surprised. If you want him to surprise you, I think it's fair to express that and expect him to actually keep his trap shut. But if he doesn't mind not being surprised, I don't think it's fair to impart your desire for surprises onto him.

I don't know. That's I don't know about this. I literally just saw a video of a woman that was like, "You guys, we're driving to a raccoon farm. My husband doesn't know. He loves raccoons. Not my thing. I don't get it. But I love him. So, I'm going to make sure he gets to do something he loves. You do these things for the other people. I don't necessarily love a surprise, but I know you love giving surprises. So, you know what?

So, where's the line? Sometimes a surprise freaks me out. It's out of my control,

right? But I wouldn't go around throwing you surprise parties. You're not going to put me like I think Yeah. And you're also not gonna like surprise me with something you know I'd hate like sky skydiving. You wouldn't take me skydiving.

That nope. Giving me ideas. Don't you dare. OP does respond and goes, "I don't hate him. I just feel like it's so childish to purposefully ruin surprises just for the sake of being clever enough to figure it out. It just feels very Verooa salt to me." I don't know.

I'm with you. A lot of people question how he knows like, "Send it to your mom's house. Send it to a friend's house." And OP is like, "I literally shipped it to my mom's house so we wouldn't find it." Someone else is like, "Is it possible he snoops on your phone?" Which I don't know.

We do have an update. Okay. Wow. This blew up more than I expected. I read through the comments and while some were helpful, a lot of people went straight to, "He's stalking you and monitoring your devices."

Wow. I want to clarify a few things. I talked to my boyfriend about everything. I told him I'm tired of putting so much energy into gifts just for the surprise to be ruined every time. I explained that it takes the fun out of it for me and makes the whole holiday feel like a chore instead of something sweet. He told me he does have his suspicions, but he genuinely didn't know what I bought. He doesn't have access to my emails, texts, bank accounts, browser history, anything like that. And he's not the type to even try. He's not sneaky or controlling.

He's just goofy and playful and gets way too into figuring things out because he likes the thrill of a guessing game. He thought I liked that back and forth, too, because we usually end up laughing and telling each other our gifts anyways, especially when they're smaller or obvious. For the hat, he said he only put two and two together because he saw the store bag while we were on FaceTime when I was at the outlet mall. As for the PS5 comment, my mom had been talking nonstop about the PS5 being on sale for Black Friday, and he said he genuinely just took a random guess. He only doubled down because I reacted and pushed back. So, he assumed he got lucky. So, no, he's not spying on me. He just genuinely needs to chill with the giftging habit. I've decided I'm not returning the PS5. I'm still going to give it to him. I might get a little sneaky and not put it under the tree or maybe give it to him later in the day at

his mom's house just for the extra surprise factor. Maybe I overreacted. Maybe I was just pissed in that moment, but the advice and funny comments helped me cool down and laugh about it. Thank you everyone.

Yeah, I don't think I was ever in the camp of return it, but I do like the smoke and mirrors. Like, let's start to really amp it up. You're never guessing this one. and then just throw his scent off the trail every time. I know because, you know, obviously he's receptive and it's just kind of a miscommunication or just a different style of gift giving and receiving. But I would have fun with it. I would turn this into a game where it's like, "Keep guessing, buddy. Keep guessing." No, I actually think the idea of like basketball tickets or something that goes with it where you're like I don't know like a a controller or like but then if you give a controller then it's like oh I got the console like you need to give something related

but like not I think the like an old fashioned game boy. Dude, go find a vintage like Game Boy and a box and like a little NBA game. be like, "It's not a PS5, but I thought it I thought it'd be good still."

Yeah, literally, you can find those old gaming consoles and stuff at um Goodwill.

Yeah, thrift store, Salvation Army. I'm literally going to try to send OP a message and just be like, "Hey, I got ideas for you on how to smoke and mirror them." But my Reddit is glitching and will not start a chat right now. So, we're going to have to um come back to that in a little bit. But that's all that's all we got on this one.

Okay. I have one last thing here. Okay. Uh, if this is coming out prior to your gift opening, everyone gets gifts from people where it's like, eh, this is not really what I wanted, but you have to do that thing. Oh, yeah.

Right. So, everyone practice. Okay. So, you're opening something, you open it, and it's like super random. You're almost kind of trying to figure out what it is, and then someone's like, "It's the blah blah." And you have to go, "Oh, yeah. Yes. I love these. I actually um I had one of these a few years ago and lost it. So, this is perfect. Thank you. Oh, this is awesome. This is great." And it's like

I don't know the letter J, a wooden J to put on your mantle or something and you just have to amp it up.

So, everyone practice cuz we all get put in that position. Unless you're one of those people that can't hide it. We all know those people too who just like

no poker face open it and are like just locked just well not locked but just like no I don't know

I have no poker face like if I get something I'm just like thanks I try really hard can you tell can you tell when I get

I'd probably be able to tell for sure I know you like better than anybody okay there's you've been around me

why you want to why are you challenging me well because if you can't tell like you've been around me when I've gotten stuff I don't like.

Yeah. So, you didn't you couldn't tell. I'm good. I'm I'm actually I do have poker face.

You know, I haven't told been able to tell. Do you know any gifts that come to mind that I haven't liked?

Well, I guess we'll just see going forward. I might have a better poker face than I think.

Stuff for me? No. Well, now I guess we'll never know. Okay. I sent OP a message. I hope they see it and respond. I would love another update on this after the holidays about how you did it, how you mess with them a little bit. Um, this is this was a good one. Moving on to this next one that is not as uppety. Um, this one does get a little heavy, you guys. It does have an update that does contain some mentions of abuse, kind of abusive behaviors. Um, so if you can't handle that, please skip to the next story. This is insane family chaos that is definitely believable. So, this is coming from AI titled, "Am I the [ __ ] for not wanting my husband's family to stay with us for the holidays?"

Classic. Comes up a lot for families all over. We have a one-bedroom apartment with a 7-month-old. space is already so limited. My husband's sister and her family are flying across the country to spend Christmas with us for 11 days. They insisted that they stay with us instead of getting a hotel.

Nope. Mm- Nope. Of course, my husband agrees to this without talking to me. When he does ask me about it, I explain how it's going to be crowded. The noise has to be kept to a minimum because of the baby. My son already has trouble sleeping, so who knows how it'll be by next month. Husband is working some days while they're here, so he insists that they use my car to go and do stuff while I'm home with the kid.

The [clears throat] problem I have the most is that when I speak up, he immediately says that I'm against his family, even though he's always talking crap against mine. My family hasn't been over to see my son yet because they know it's going to take hotel and car rental fees. They don't insist on uprooting my entire routine for 11 days. My mom can get me discounts because she works at a hotel, but that's still not good enough for them. I just think it's rude to insist on sleeping on an air mattress that will take up half of our living room. My son will not have a safe place to play. I'll have to lock myself away to pump every 3 to 4 hours. Our routines will be shattered. I have a feeling their kid will be loud and wake the baby. Husband said, quote, "Don't get mad if sister's kid breaks things." He's five. I'm going to be mad. I'm made to feel like I'm the [ __ ] because I have an opinion. The more I think about it,

the angrier I get. Am I the [ __ ] Yes, clearly. I mean, come on. I I can't even believe like people get pushed to the point where they even have to ask that question because

you know why? I mean, look at this [ __ ] No, but oh my it's just I I I've outgrown the I'm coming to town. I'm going to sleep on the air mattress thing. Listen, I will sell my car and get a different car if it means I can stay places more comfortably if it's necessary. Like I that's a big one for me. Especially when you know you're putting someone out in a way. Especially when

a new mom 7 months, 8 months by that time postpartum with a baby. It just there's not any single piece of this that makes any sense. And I would be so uncomfortable going to someone's place and putting them in a position to do that. Even if they were begging me to stay there,

it's just easier and nicer to not sleep on a air mattress in someone's living room. If they have an extra bedroom and bathroom where you don't get in their way, I would stay and I'd be out in the mornings. I would go other places unless we were doing something together. I am one where I'm like, "Okay, I'll stay, but I'm I'm gonna be out. I'll be out of your way."

Yeah. This feels like you are There's not even You're not even in the way. It's something beyond that. You're You're just

blocking every I don't even know what to consider it. You don't have your space anymore. Your space is taking over. How are they sleeping two grown adults and a 5-year-old on a blowup mattress in the living room? Where are they changing? How's everyone showering? Oh, and by the way, wife, my sister's going to take your car.

Yeah. your car. [ __ ] no. Your sister can drive your car. She can drop your ass off at work and she can drive your car around while you're at work and then she can pick you up. Like, why is your family coming to stay with us for 11 days?

Yeah, no kidding. Inconveniencing me in the biggest, most harmful ways. I'm getting such red flags from this dude. The fact her family hasn't been able to visit. I get like finances are really tough for a lot of people. And so I understand why her family can't visit, but like a husband should be like sending mom and baby to go visit her family then. Like his family, there's no mention of money being an issue and they can afford flights at least for three of them to fly across the country. So there's some money there. So why is a hotel like why is that such a big consideration? And like, hey, if a hotel is not affordable, like

I don't know, like maybe this year isn't the year to visit when we have a new baby. Or, hey, what does your house look like? Do you have guest rooms? Maybe we should actually fly across the country to you guys. This what's going on is not okay. And there's no respect for her.

No. And the way this line actually really pissed me off, too. When I speak up, he immediately says I'm against his family.

Yeah. That feels so manipulative. and weaponized and just like toxic. Well, just saving that card to play later always. Right. There's We had a similar We've talked about something similar recently where people will not say anything in the moment when they're really upset and then they'll just take it. All right, I'm going to put that in my pocket for later. And then the second you say something that's actually wrong that should be addressed, they're like, "Yep, this. Remember this? Hey, remember this? This problem I had? Yep. I didn't say anything. But now that you bring this up, I'm going to bring it up. It's like, okay, that is just so beyond functional. There's no communication.

No, there's no teamwork. There's no being a partner in any of this. Just considering all of the factors with the the newborn. I can you call him a newborn still?

Yeah, he's a baby. I don't know when they transition out of that, but you have a young child,

you're nursing, you have a small place, and it's not like you have an extra room. Don't you think, considering all of those factors and the duration, you would even consider asking the person you live with, the person you share this home with, it doesn't matter who bought her, who owns it.

Mhm. She just had the baby. If anything, she should have more weight when it comes to these decisions. She should have more decision-m power.

It doesn't matter who bought the place or whatever that circumstance is. It's what's going to make you comfortable.

What's going to make you comfortable? Especially because you're nursing and doing all of this.

I know. Pumping every 3 to four hours. But that is having a partner that's considerate of you. He's not considerate of her. He doesn't respect her. and he's showing a lot of really red flags. I mean, overall vote on this one, there's not a consensus bot on AITA, but like you I mean, clearly he's not the [ __ ] Not the [ __ ] Not the [ __ ] Like this poor woman, it's clear she's being gaslit in some regard to like again even come here and question, "Am I the asshole?" Like, no. No.

I know. There's a comment here that says, "You should be rethinking this marriage. He got zero consideration for you." Next person responds, "Exactly. He is showing all the classic signs of being an abuser. Isolating her. He badmouths her family. Probably won't even let them into the home. Cuts her out of the decision-m. Invites his family to stay with them for 11 days during Christmas. Three, makes everything her fault. When she objects and uses logic, she is difficult. She hates his family. Four, makes her question her own logic and sanity. Hence her post here." Y

next comment down. Want to bet he is around his 30s at least and she is early 20s. OP does respond to that. O try [snorts] 40 and mid30s.

Oh yeah, it's come on. That's too late for all this stuff going on. It feels like the classic I'll marry you, we'll have a baby, and then I'm going to change. I'm going to start taking advantage of that situation.

OP does get asked quite a bit about culture. Like is there a different culture people should be taking into consideration? like are we missing something here? People specifically ask, "Is OP from an Indian culture?" OP responds, "No." And then we get an update.

Coming nearly a month later. Okay. Yep. Buckle up, you guys. Can I just say I'm picturing one bathroom

and I'm also picturing the fact that there's no reprieve. There's no break. There's no turn it off. You are on 247 for 11 days straight, including all of the outs andabouts that you guys are all gonna go do.

And you have to do that and then you have to wait in line for the goddamn bathroom and take No.

Mm-m. No. Even when my friends come to town and like maybe this is a sign of me getting old or just like my social battery getting depleted. I literally want my friends to like come to town and like let's make plans like you come for a weekend, right? and let's do dinner and let's do an activity Saturday. But like

also can can you plan stuff that like doesn't involve me so I can go home and like recharge or take a nap. Like I love when people come out with like friends or another partner like their partner. So then it's like okay well let's hang out. Let's go to dinner. Let's go to a game. But then like you guys can go adventure and do stuff too.

That's right. Well it's like you can crash, right? Of course. Like you can crash. That's why we use a hotel. That's why we have a room. But don't feel obligated.

No. We don't have to hang out 24/7. I love you so so much. I want to see you. Like you feel free to like adventure on your own.

Exactly. Yeah. Like Yeah. But I don't know. Is that just me? Am I an [ __ ] I don't know.

No. Okay. Update. Trigger warning on this update, you guys. It does start to get pretty abusive. It could be very triggering for people dealing with, you know, verbal abuse and things like that. So, just a little trigger warning here. Please just skip ahead to the next story. where to even begin unwrapping this [ __ ] hole. I had brought up the issue with his family staying a couple of times after my post. I had to Google quote how to talk to a narcissist before the approach. I said how it would affect the baby and I and how it would affect his family with me having to get up in the middle of the night and how my son needs space for his play pen. Baby proofing a one-bedroom has proven more difficult than I thought. He seemed understanding, however, wasn't budging on wanting them to stay. I just got the old we'll keep analyzing it.

Since I can cancel my hotel reservation a day before check-in, I went ahead and booked 10 nights just to lock in a cheap rate. I felt more secure having a backup plan in case [ __ ] hit the fan at my house. On our way to Thanksgiving, my son kept getting blasted by sunlight while driving. I have tried the usual sun shades on the windows. A few days ago, I got these curtains for the side windows. They hang on with magnets, so I grabbed them from my car and hung them in my husband's car as he was the one driving us 3 hours away to his family gathering. He kept saying the blinds were blocking his blind spots, so I tied them open so he could see, but my son could also keep some shade. After it still was a problem, my husband asked for them to be removed and proceeded to tell me how I need to quote ask him before I just go and do stuff. You want your baby to get [ __ ] sunburnt from a car ride? Like

doesn't sound like a two-way street. You need to ask before you do stuff like put up a window shade so our baby is

like invite your family to stay with us for 11 [ __ ] days. That is when I lost my [ __ ] I brought up the visit and how he never discussed it with me prior to telling his sister that they could stay. Of course, this causes him to blow up, saying that he doesn't need my permission as it is quote his house.

Thought that was coming. Over and over, I'm told to quote, "Shut the [ __ ] up and man up."

Quote, "If this was your family, dot dot dot dot." quote, "I don't want to be with a [ __ ] [ __ ] wife. Let me out of that [ __ ] car right now." Like, at that point,

can you imagine? I can I just honestly can't even imagine someone saying this to another person. I just can't. It just it I I can't even fathom it.

I want to shove a bar of soap in his mouth. [ __ ] [ __ ] wife. YouTube's going to demonetize me for saying those words in a row. Uh-huh.

Like, yeah, especially twice. I remain calm and reiterate that it's my home, too. And it's about respect that he talks to me first. It's not about control. It's about respect. Respect for my son and our routines, comfort, and safety. He then goes on to say how I don't respect him and I just quote turned this around and made it about you.

Quote, "Holidays are classically stressful. Look at Home Alone where they have that huge house and it's chaos." Okay, but this isn't a movie. It's real life. If we had a guest room, I would still be annoyed, but I would be more comfortable manning up and letting them stay as they wouldn't obscure my routines. So, I ruined Thanksgiving.

Husband stayed at work until he had to come home just to sleep. Didn't see his son for almost 3 days. I had to text him first. Quote, "Come and have an adult conversation with me. you haven't seen your son in 3 days. To which I get, but I'm working. No [ __ ] I meant after. And quote, "No one wants me around anyways. I'm only good for food and money." Good lord, I didn't respond to this. Needless to say, he came home and spent time with his son. We had an adult conversation. His family staying is not changing. He said he already told them yes and doesn't want to now tell them to get a hotel. That doesn't matter.

Quote, "A hotel is way too expensive. Even at this discount you're talking about, it's not going to be $50." Lol. It actually was. I booked 10 nights for $518 total.

Wow. I told him this and he just rolled his eyes. His sister had texted me personally and asked if they could use my car to do one thing when my husband is working. She said they would rent a car if not. Just the fact that she asked with respect made me say yes to using it. We agreed that if I needed it, they would bring it back. My son and I will be okay. My thoughts? Continue my routines. Do what I need to do. If they can't handle it, they are free to get a hotel. I will not uproot my life for 11 days. It's not about me.

It's about my son. He will be taken care of regardless of guests. My question is, should I keep the hotel? I want to have it in case my son and I have to sleep there. If people keep waking my son up, I'm going to have a huge problem, especially if we're trapped. But I also don't want to waste money and never use it. I can't decide. For everyone saying I should get a divorce over this, that's valid. Even more so after this update, girl, I want to give him one more chance to start discussing with me. If he can't respect that, then yeah, it's done. I'm tired of him stepping outside and having these conversations without my input.

Wish me luck. You know, I would keep the hotel. I would probably stay there every night.

Yeah, cuz that sounds really like a little station. Yeah. Just, you know, get out of there, have a little break, have some time with your son, and get out of the mess. But, uh,

I don't know. I would say your husband is only good for food and money. Yeah, I think that's where we're at. I think he said it

pretty right. And I I don't think some odd projection. It's I think it's not a coincidence that he said that because I think I don't know. I mean, a narcissist would never think this way, but I think somehow maybe a deep subconscious realizes maybe that is all he's good for in this Yeah, I mean probably not. I mean, there's a lot of Darvo there. There's I mean, there's so much deflection,

accuse, victim, reverse, offender. Like, that is all there very prevalent with him. Like, I don't know if he's self-aware enough to realize it or if it truly is just like almost like a like a Freudian slip. It's just like coming out. He doesn't even recognize, but like yeah, subconscious is maybe another word you can use. But honestly, I'm like I'm I'm genuinely like I'm kind of I'm kind of scared for her. like this is just not a healthy relationship. Someone who will verbally abuse you in such an extreme way. Like I worry about things escalating.

It's not right. It's not right. It's not right. It's not healthy. It's not good.

I honestly I would keep the hotel. I mean, $518 for 11 days is incredible. Like that is that is amazing. So honestly, like if you know that like you're kind of going to spend this money one way or another, whether it's you sleeping there or like wasting it, I don't know. Like for me, if my home is more comfortable and easy for me to maintain my baby's routine, I would go to the sister-in-law because it seems like she has some respect for you.

Yes. And I would say, "Hey, I want to just let you know so you can plan for it, but I want to gift you guys a hotel stay. It's right down the street from our house. Here's the room. There's a pool. And make it so fun. And just like get them out of your hair, but then you know if money's a burden, it's a Christmas gift. Like it seems like you can afford it because you're considering staying there. So get them out of your house. Like and if she has a problem with it, then say, "Oh my god." Okay. Yeah, no worries. Like you enjoy the house. You can, you know, blow up mattress all you.

I'll stay there. I just want to make sure the baby gets good sleep. It should be an upgrade for them. They should see that. If I were going to go stay somewhere and someone's like, "Yo, I booked you a room." I'd be like, "Shit, yeah, you did.

Let's go." Because the reality is, and the husband, you know, he's going to get all crazy over that, if you know, if you go to this to her straight and then he figures it out on the back end, he's going to go ballistic. But in all reality, if you just think about the situation, they can come still spend a bunch of time over at your place, get all of that same quality time.

Mhm. But guess what? They can go to their happy little hotel. Yeah. And you guys can have your

Yeah. Well, at least you can have your happy little home. I don't know what his situation is, but

[ __ ] screwed. That's the second you said that I'm just instantly worried because the verbal abuse now it just feels like if you trigger the wrong way, you just don't know what you're going to get. And I think that's the scariest thing that can happen is when all of a sudden the person you're married to, the person you have a kid with, you look across at them and you literally feel like you don't know them.

And that's and they're unpredictable and there's things that you start to not trust. And that is just a bad sign. And that's when it kind of starts to

if you start to feel that way in your relationship of any sort. Doesn't even have to be a romantic relationship. That's when you got to really start evaluating like an exit plan or a worst case scenario. You honestly start to have a goag.

I know. And that when you start to think that way, you're not in a team dynamic. You're not like happily together.

No. And I honestly I think his behavior just is indicative of why he's 40 having his first kid. Like and I know people are now choosing to have kids later. But like I don't know. I'm getting obviously some glaring issues. A lot of people are worried about her in the comments. A lot of people are like, "Don't prepare for guests. Don't buy groceries. Don't cook. Take your son and go stay at the hotel or with family or friends.

Let your husband host his family without you. Honey, you need to take the baby in the car and go stay at the hotel for the duration of the stay. Let him host. Stay away from that chaos. A lot of people are like, one thing I don't think I've read is that the stress OP is going through will definitely affect her milk supply, which will in turn affect the baby. And like stress can decrease milk supply. Cortisol can actually be in your breast milk. And if you have extremely high levels of cortisol and that stress hormone, your baby can actually become even fussier.

They get stressed. You can pass stress. The cortisol, yeah, the stress hormone can be in your breast milk. Usually, like if you're just low stress, like it's such a small amount, but like if you're in a high stress situation, so it's like

all around this is just setting her up for failure. Like if this were me, I honestly would like reach out to my family and be like, "You guys, I'm really struggling. Like, can I come visit for the holidays?" And like, I know she's clearly not ready for divorce, even after that car conversation and the horrible things he said to her. And if she's not ready, she's not ready. But I hope she gets there cuz this is just not not okay.

It's getting dark. Not okay. Okay, Justin, you're off. Bye. Next co-host. Next co-host coming in.

Okay. Poof. Little, you know, reindeer magic. Poof. Bye. Poof. Poof. Bye. Bye. Welcome back to the holiday stories.

Do you know any holiday jingles? Yes. Have you been practicing for your carolling?

Caroling isn't happening. I know. It's It's sad. It's really if any of you Why would you do why would you do that to the people?

I don't know if any of you are successfully caroling this year. Please let me know.

How, where, when can she sign up? Yes. Because the one thing we thought of is you can probably do it at like a nursing home. Yeah.

Or like where is it? Retirement home. I don't know. Either way. Either way, you can probably go there to do it. We briefly said maybe we go to the Grove. That's crazy.

The Grove is crazy. I was not on board with The Grove. The Grove is That's No. Then we've got live streaming, but I don't know.

Oh, live stream's a good idea. Yeah, it's never too late. It's only the 15th right now.

That's true. So, you could still Carol. Yeah. Get people into the spirit, you know?

I haven't I would love it if Carol came to my door. Yeah. I don't know if they I mean, you do live in a Q neighborhood. I could see them there, but it's like Caroline does feel like a a cold weather place thing, too.

Feels like a lost art, if you ask me. It is a lost art. Sign the petition. Bring back carolling.

Bring back carolling. What are we doing? Something probably not as bad as what you're going to read for me.

No. No. Um, yeah. There's some there's some bad ones. Let's go. Let's get into it. Let's rapid fire these bad [ __ ] These [ __ ] I don't know, dude. I'm I'm in such a weird headsp space today.

Once your vibe is thrown off by something, it is difficult to like get your vibe back on track. I don't know how to recover a vibe once it goes flat as stale.

I think when we get raising pains it'll recover your vibe. I have to go to the post office though. I'm like just like God everything is So let's get into this first one.

Mhm. Okay. This one's coming from Am I the Jerk? It's titled Am I the [ __ ] for calling out my neighbor at our Christmas party after she kept hitting on my son? Need the ages. Michaela, you're not going to like the ages. That's what I was worried about. We hosted a Christmas party at our house for neighbors and some family friends. My 19-year-old son was home from college for break. One of our neighbors, who's probably in her mid4s, started getting really drunk and weird with him. Started off with compliments about how grown up he looks. Then she's touching his arm, asking if he has a girlfriend, saying stuff like, "If I was 20 years younger."

Oh god. While laughing. My son looked so uncomfortable, but he's being polite because it's our house and our party. He kept trying to move away from her, but she would follow him around. I pulled her aside and said that she needs to stop, that she's making my son uncomfortable. She acted like I was crazy and she was just being nice. 10 minutes later, she's back at it. Cornered him by the Christmas tree, asking him to help her hang ornaments on a high branch. Making comments about his height and build, asking if he works out. I went over and said loud enough for people nearby to hear, "He's 19.

You're in your 40s. Stop hitting on my son at Christmas. get her ass. She got upset and left crying. Her husband looked mortified and apologized before following her out. I said if a 40-year-old man was doing this to someone's 19-year-old daughter, they would be horrified. Why is this different? Am I the [ __ ]

Well, it's not. It's not any different. It's disgusting either way. No. And also, she already got the warning. She already got the like even like even if she didn't have that intent initially, it's like well you've been told you're making him uncomfortable. He's been visibly trying to get away from you and now you are still doing it so there is no excuse.

Leave him alone. Yeah. You're also you're not even single. You're married. Yeah. No, when I heard the little bit about the husband at the end, I was very surprised.

I was shocked. I was like, "Wait, our husband is there." And the husband apologized, which is interesting. So, he probably also was like, "That's kind of weird." probably really embarrassed

and like how long has this neighbor known him? He's 19 now. Ew. Probably a while because she even said like, "You look so grown up now."

Yeah. Which if that was the only comment, that is like a common thing to say to like like kid that you've like known for a long time like like relatives. Oh my god, you look so grown up. But clearly like with that sandwich with all of these other comments, it's like no, [clears throat] this isn't appropriate. really bad touching his arm. Do you have a girlfriend? If I was only 20 years younger,

everyone can assume what you want to say after that. If only I was 20 years younger, I'd [ __ ] you now. Like,

you know what I mean? Yeah, it's gross. It is gross. And it it is like interesting how OP kind of points out that there's like a little bit of a double standard. And I I do think like young boys, young men, like I don't know. You saw it with like Justin Bieber, like how he was just like the opposite of infantalized. He was like

looked at much older that that happened to his female peers at the time. Like that was kind of the time.

I know, but like same thing happened to Selena and Miley and like all of the like by adult male interviewers, too.

I know. The way we treat young celebrities is not uh I just Oh, I saw something the other day where it's like this actress was 13 and she made out with like

um a 43year-old and I'm like what the [ __ ] Wait for a movie or Yeah, that was happening a lot too. They were casting like very young girls to play like love interests

and it wasn't in the script either. Wait, it wasn't in the script? Mm-m. So, it was um I don't know if she was she might not have been 13. I'm trying to find the age, but it was Bill Murray. He gave Scarlett Johansson a kiss and it wasn't in the script and he just like kissed her. And Scarlet was really young. Got to fact check myself.

Um I think she was 16, but Bill Maria at the time was 52. Ew. Leave her alone. Get away from her.

Get away from her. Really just icky. But yeah, no matter who it's happening to though, like someone in their 40s and someone who is a teenager, that should not be happening.

Especially if you've known them for a long time. And then to just like corner him and like and and he doesn't want to cause a scene because it's his parents' house and this is like being polite.

Also trying don't want to embarrass anybody, but it's like okay, you've had your warnings like stop now.

Stop. Yeah. Like you're being weird. Top comment. Not the [ __ ] True. If you reverse the genders, most parents would be upset.

Mhm. I don't even know why she's questioning it. Like, it's weird. It's weird. Yeah. I think I think holiday parties I wish I'd grown up in one place and that that was a place I went back to and that I could people watch with the types of interactions from like all of these randoms that you wouldn't necessarily probably like by choice, but because you're in close proximity like this, you just like have to kind of socialize with a lot of different people.

For sure. But I'm never at like a holiday party with this type of group of people. And I kind of wish I could relive that experience.

Seems interesting. It's just awkward. Yeah. It's not that fun. I think I have a lot of people probably doing that right now.

Yeah. No, I um I went to like a holiday party the other night and like love the host but like don't really know everyone else and me and Justin just sat in the corner by the food table and just snacked.

Yeah. And we're just like, "Okay, how how long do you have to like stay and show face?" show face and have we, you know, we've kind of talked like, "Have we said enough?"

Mhm. Yeah. This one's probably pretty clear-cut in the comments. Yeah. Comments are like, "Be proud of yourself. Love what you did. Don't ever feel ashamed or guilty for sticking up for your son. There's a time to be nice, which should be most of the time, but there's also a time to be direct and maybe not so nice." This was a perfect example. One warning, then here comes Mama Bear. Loved it. And I bet many of the people attending did too.

Oh, they definitely did cuz who doesn't want a little tea? Who doesn't want a little holiday drama?

Also, I feel like a lot of people probably noticed like this this seems to have not been very subtle. So, I'm sure everyone was like, "Well, yep, that's what you get." I hope I hope the neighbor wakes up in the morning and apologizes, too. Yeah, I would hope so. Okay, move on to this next one. Okay.

I haven't read this one, but based on the title, I feel like it's going to be good.

Okay. I don't know. I'm sorry in advance if it sucks. I don't know. It's a day old at the time that I found it coming from AITA. I don't want to refresh yet in case it's gone. And it's titled, "Am I the [ __ ] for cancelling Christmas after my brother-in-law threw a fit over me inviting exister-in-law to Thanksgiving and Christmas?" Wait, this is the plot of a Hallmark movie that's out right now.

Is it really? Yes. Yeah. With I don't remember. Yeah. Okay, let's let's get into this. I, 38, female, married to my 44 male husband for 15 years. My husband is one of six sons. His mother passed a few years after the youngest was born and his father passed about 9 years ago. Husband is the second. There's the oldest brother-in-law, 47, with sister-in-law and two kids. Hubby and I, three kids, currently pregnant with our fourth brother-in-law who's number three, 42, widowed with one kid. Brother-in-law four, 39 with girlfriend. Brother-in-law five, 37, ex sister-in-law with two kids, and a single brother-in-law number six 34.

Okay, that's what he says. I retained all that. P A G Woo. [gasps and laughter]

Hubs and I are very well off. We both have very lucrative jobs and have made investments that has allowed us to have a very comfortable life. We have a big old house and we are often the family that hosts the holidays. We absolutely love it. We spend all week cleaning, prepping for the family to arrive, and they typically stay with us Tuesday through Saturday for Thanksgiving and then come back the 21st through the 26th for Christmas. Now, brother-in-law, 37, has been separated, soon divorcing ex-sister-in-law for 4 and 1/2 years.

The past few years since brother-in-law, 39, has separated from ex-sister-in-law, he has brought numerous girlfriends to these holidays. Ex-sister-in-law has sometimes come, and they are pretty cordial. However, recently, this past Thanksgiving, my brother-in-law, 37, has been expressing that he doesn't want to see her, nor does he feel like he should be accosted by his ex-wife at the holidays. He's saying that regardless if he has kids or not, he should be able to come and she shouldn't be able to come anymore. Why the sudden shift or change, you might wonder? Well, this year exsister-in-law has a serious boyfriend who came with his daughter. I should note we welcome and open our home to all of our family's significant others. The kids and cousins have all met this daughter because we tend to see exister-in-law a lot outside of the holidays, as we do a lot of cousin hangs, and she's the one who always

brings the kids. I am not too keen on brother-in-law. To me, he's a scumbag, but everyone tolerates him because he's family. Whatever. In this instance, I stood firm and said that exsister-in-law is always welcome at our house. Another reason that I especially need exsister-in-law is that no one else at these holidays can cook. During the holidays, it's basically me and exsister-in-law and my mom. She's my sue chef. We cook and plan the meals together for 20 plus people as well as desserts and activities. Other and sister-in-law who cannot cook, but we love her and she usually hangs out in the kitchen chopping up veggies or pouring wine, which is cool because company counts when you're cooking. So, I said, "I think it's absurd that you want me to host the holidays by myself and cater to everyone because you feel that ex-in-law shouldn't be there because now she has a new plan. And as I mentioned, I'm pregnant. Just found out

a few weeks before Thanksgiving, so I needed the help. I told him to [ __ ] off. Thanksgiving comes and goes, and brother-in-law is a sour ass hat the whole time, but everyone had a really good time. Now Christmas is coming up, and the same issue is happening. Brother-in-laws are divided. Hubs, brother-in-law 47, and brother-in-law 42 are on my slash the ex-sister-in-law's side. And the others are saying that I should stop inviting ex-sister-in-law because she is no longer family. I'm like, what the [ __ ] That is so freaking cruel. Also, she's my friend, and y'all are out of your damn mind if you feel like I'm going to shoulder the holidays by myself. Especially because none of the brother-in-laws actually help. We don't expect slash want anyone to contribute, especially if they can't cook. But that doesn't change the physical toll that it takes to make all this stuff happen. My husband, love him,

said that this is too much stress for me and we should just cancel and do something else. So, we immediately booked a vacation. Hey. I then sent a message in the family group chat and notified everyone that we will not be doing Christmas this year and we will mail all the kids their gifts. Wow. Now everyone is up in arms saying that I shouldn't cancel and that not having one person there isn't enough to not do the holidays blah blah blah. My husband kind of chewed them out saying that exister-in-law is not some stranger or random person. She's been a part of the family for 20 years. Oh my god. Her and brother-in-law 37 started dating in high school. He also said that they don't get to take all the benefits of the holidays, not help, and then demand that I do things alone because brother-in-law 37 is in his feelings that she moved on.

I told them they could all choke on candy canes, and if they wanted to have Christmas, they could host, plan, cook, and create the magic with the people they deemed family. So yeah. Am I the [ __ ] on this one? OP is not the [ __ ] This was a ride. Oh my god. OP has been doing everything for everyone this whole time. I feel like I could be more conflicted on this one if you know brother-in-law and ex-sister-in-law didn't have kids together. Like I can understand saying, "Hey, like this is my ex. Can we please stop inviting her to the family events? I'm trying to move on. she's moving on. It's hard for me.

Yeah. Like that isn't the craziest thing in the world to me. No. But I think, you know, her being in their lives for 20 years, her always helping out, them having kids together, her probably wanting to be there because that's where, you know, they can all be together as a The kids also probably love that these events they get to have their mom and dad there together. Oh, this is amazing. And like the whole family comes together. I mean, 20 plus people under one roof. Like that is so so fun to have as young like cousins and siblings and all that. Like

it is it is a village. Like this is ideal. Mhm. And why should it end? Because like they got divorced. I I get like if things are really bad and toxic and you can't be around each other.

Mhm. But like again like as you said like she was a part of everyone's life for 20 years. Yeah. And it sounds like they have been cohabitating at these events and he has been fine with it and he's brought girlfriends but now it's just this year because she has a boyfriend that now there's a problem.

Yeah. But what's good for the goose should be good for the gander. Same thing. You've been bringing girlfriends all these years. She hasn't had anyone. That's why it's been okay because you get to show off and flaunt it in front of her face. Now you're single. No girlfriend this year. She's got someone she cares about genuinely. And now you're going to pout and cry and whine. Grow up. And it's probably not like easy for the exister-in-law, too. It's like already maybe a little bit awkward of like, okay, I'm the ex coming. And I can tell that like there are some people who don't want me here anymore. I wish that she could have a similar like family Christmas and Thanksgiving event on her side, but I again I think that this is like a net positive situation that everyone's together and I feel like he just needs to suck it up. And also all of these people need to be offering to help. Oh my god, why is nobody helping?

I can't imagine. No, I cannot imagine having like 20 people coming to an event and only three are helping with the food. Like at least be bringing stuff. Like every every single couple should be bringing something with them. It should not be up to these three people.

No. And if you can't cook, either watch a YouTube video or buy it. Like you can buy really good pre-made things that like taste like homemade stuff.

And there must be at least one thing that you can cook. Like give me a break. I can't cook. Like try. Everyone else is doing it for you. So

literally Justin just made bread yesterday for a Hanukkah party we went to. Like he made the hala because I was recording. I couldn't get back in time and he had to start the dough otherwise I would not bread.

He just crushed it. I came back did the braid did a little too tight. Not my best halolla if you're following my bread journey but um it tasted amazing and he did so good. Like is he a little baker?

He's not you know Martha Stewart or Betty Crocker but he's willing to to mix those things together and put it in the oven. I mean, it's just the effort. Yeah. It's like none of them can cook, but like as she said, that sister-in-law that can't cook comes in, chops a few veggies, pours the wine. Like, yeah, that's still appreciated. Yeah.

Where's everyone else? That's just so many people to be putting it all. Like, anytime we do Thanksgiving dinners now, like I do bread and my mom does the pies and like someone else does, you know, if we we come together and we all try to help each other make it work. I 20 people. God. Yeah. No, not the [ __ ] I think this is going to be a really good learning lesson for all of them.

Yeah. This is a reality hitting them moment. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Literally feeding you. And like this is hosting. I mean, this is a big [ __ ] house. I want to see a picture of their house. Send me the Zillow link.

Yeah. Like, you can fit 20 people in your house for She did say that they both are very well off. They both have very lucrative jobs. So,

can I come? We'd love to. Can I come? We'll help. I'll make bread. I'll make all the bread.

I'll make it all. Yeah. Michaela can make anything. Her fkatcha. Woo. Thank you.

Sourdough with her little brie and pepper jam. Oo. Mhm. Yeah. You put a little onion. Send us the invite.

You'll put a little onion in there. That was good, too. This is a PSA for everyone.

I don't know if I've talked about this yet, but if you eat too many raw red onions, you [snorts] will get a headache and massive anxiety. Be careful.

Wait, what do you mean? Exactly what I said. I ate a handful of raw onion slivers.

Yeah. And I thought I was going to die. It triggered a massive headache and a [ __ ] ton of anxiety.

Wait, are you sure that that's it? Did you look into it? Yep. I Googled. Oh my god.

I Googled and it said it's pretty common. I didn't know that that was happening.

Be careful with those red onions, everyone. They are dangerous. Well, and I will say if you chop up some red onions, that stays in your fingernails for quite some time. I was scrubbing.

Don't touch your eyeballs. I was freaking scrubbing. Don't touch them. Yeah, onions and um what else stays on your fingers after you do it.

Probably garlic or something. Sugar snap peas. There was something else I made the other day. It'll come back to me. It'll come back to me.

We do have some comments from OP. Oh, good. Yeah, I'm very curious about this family. I I'm I want

interested to know more. I I want to be adopted. Adopt me. Mail me my presents.

But only by her, not anyone else. It sounds like this one. This one. So, someone goes and it's like up at the top as one of the best comments right now. One, I am coming. So many people will never notice. I'll pass myself off as someone's significant other's grandmother. I cook and I'll bring a raw apple cake, chocolate u log, and orange chocolate chips. Yeah, our reaction as well. We're down.

Let us let us come. Two, your brother-in-law is Ron. Tell him that he can stay home. And three, your former sister-in-law is lovely. She comes.

Mhm. Um, someone else responds, I am also coming. I'm someone's crazy hippie auntie who's stranded here for the holidays. I'm taking charge of the turkey that I will bring. I roast a mean bird. OP responds, "Don't tempt me with a good time. I think the holidays are incomplete without a crazy hippie auntie. The thread goes on and someone does eventually ask like how did this start? Has this been an issue before? People are sharing recipes in the comments, but OP says, "We have literally been hosting and the both of them have been coming to Thanksgiving and Christmas since they split up.

Brother-in-law brings whoever he's dating and it's never been an issue. He just broke up with his latest girlfriend. Ex-sister-in-law also tends to have the kids more. We welcome everyone, but also like I mentioned, no one else helps. We're talking cooking for days to feed everyone and overall making the holidays festive. And again, I'm pregnant. I'm not a mule. And again, she's been a part of the family for 20 years. That doesn't just go away. I think it's more that he's hurt that she has a partner for the first time. Sounds like a whiny little [ __ ] Yeah, it's been like 5 years that he's been actively dating and she hasn't until now and all of a sudden it's like,

oo, we got problems now. I'm coming off a little hot today. No, it was it was it was whiny little [ __ ] And also, of course, if you're like already doing so much work for such a huge event and then it's like here's one person who does nothing and complains and like adds negativity to the time. Here's someone who's lovely and is one of the only people helping me out with the event and they're trying to shut her out. Like, no.

I know. Well, and OP also adds this like cuz someone was like, "Why doesn't she spend the holidays with her family?"

Yeah. [clears throat] And OP's like, "She doesn't have any actually. Her family is in another country and she's never been close. She lived with a distant cousin when she came to this country. My husband's family literally took her in. She is even close with a lot of their cousins."

Yeah. So, I think it's like it's really tough. And like I'm so glad with this one that hubby is on board with her. Yeah.

I'm so glad it's not her against all of them. And like he's advocating for her. And like I guess he's advocating for the sister-in-law the most actually. She's been like a sister to them. She's literally been at all of our kids' births, even staying with us while I was postpartum. She did the same for our other sister-in-law. She's even friends with my sisters. She asked for the divorce because he was cheating on her. I think he really thought she would never leave him, but she's been ingrained in the family since they were both 17. It's It sounds like honestly she tries really hard to be a part of this family because she doesn't have like she's constantly showing up and putting in all of this effort and taking on the jobs that other people don't want to do which is like super understandable cuz it's like she's you know she wants to stay a part of it. She's never like had this type of family dynamic before

and I don't think it's fair for her to be booted because they got divorced because cheating on her. Yeah.

Because of him. Like I think that's something that's really hard for me with family dynamics and like navigating family dynamics. And it's it's something Justin and I have kind of had issues with because like a lot of people in his family got divorced and like he he has still wanted to like try to maintain relationships with some people but feels that he can't

and he feels that he's kind of walking a fine line. And that's that's like his that's his feeling like I don't put any pressure. I'm like, "Whatever you want to do, you do." But it just makes things difficult and awkward sometimes. And it is kind of a thing where it's like when someone gets married and that's your uncle and you've known them for 30 years as your uncle and all of a sudden they get divorced. It's like it's hard to just be like, "Well, that's not my uncle anymore and I don't know him."

And that's like what is wanted of him by some of the other people in that situation. It's almost like pick a side and it's

for sure. And there's a lot of mess to it. There's a lot of like just shitty stuff that, you know, obviously people are hurt by and like everyone's entitled to their feelings, but it's really hard to just kind of expect everyone to forget that relationship that's been had. And

I think a lot of families go through this. Like no one in my family's gotten divorced.

A lot of people just didn't get married. And I always grew up like me and my siblings, we've always had like multiple Christmases. Like Christmas Eve, we would all go to our bio dad's houses and then Christmas day we spent together at my mom's.

Mhm. So that was like the normal for us. We never had a Christmas where everyone came together.

Yeah. But if that's all you've ever known for the past 20 some odd years, why should that change?

Like why can't you exhusband be mature to realize you messed up? Yeah. And I think that's really really important what you're saying of like, oh, all of a sudden now this I'm not supposed to see this person as my uncle because as OP is mentioning,

you know, the ex sister-in-law has been at the births of all of these children. She's been there. She's been taking care of them. She's been taking care of, you know, the parents in those situations, too. So, it's like, yeah, that that does become your family and that doesn't just go away all because

the brother-in-law cheated on her. It's tough. She's still been there for all of these like huge moments that are family moments.

I mean, I got chills when you were like she took care of all of them postpartum and took care of their babies. Like it she has been such a big part of this village

and they're friends. Yeah, they're friends now. It would be like you can't be friends with her because we're getting divorced

and it's her holiday party. It's her house. She's hosting. She's doing everything.

Either come and if you don't like it, then don't [ __ ] come. Yeah. Get Get out of here. This is a gift. It would have been harder as a gift. Harder for the exister-in-law to be showing up when it's like, "Oh, I have to show up now and he cheated on me, but I can't ask for him to leave. I have to make nice with him." So, she's been putting up with it. He can, too. She's not the one who did something.

No. It's crazy the fact he Yeah. It's always so crazy to me. It's like the fact you cheated on her

and then you immediately like had all these other girlfriends and she was fine. showing up and being there and being

making food for you guys too. Making food for you and those girlfriends. Dude, I would have spit in his potatoes. Like what? Like the strength she has

to not be catty, not be petty, and just still just participate in this family and like love.

I don't know. It's just like it's baffling to me. And then she gets one boyfriend and he's crashing out.

Yeah. What did you think was going to happen? any such cases though I do feel like when someone's the cheater it's like oh as soon as the other person does anything about moving on it all comes crashing down on their heads

I know does anyone in the comments think OP is the [ __ ] no okay no everyone is firmly firmly on OP's side we do get a little bit more insight about brother-in-law um OP says this honestly he's so obnoxious and always wants to be the center of attention he drinks too much and thinks that he's God's gift to ladies. He is attractive, but he has such a shitty attitude. Last Christmas, we got all of the kids bikes, and he hopped on his oldest son's bike to show the kids how he could do cool tricks and ended up running into the stairs and getting the bike wheel stuck.

His son was so sad and he didn't even get to be the first one to ride it. We got him another bike. Ironically enough, it was my husband and ex-sister-in-law new boyfriend who taught him how to ride it. Whenever he's at events, people are always apprehensive because he always steals the spotlight. It's exhausting. But when he's decent, he's actually not that bad to be around. It's just more often than not that he's that person. This is such a glimpse into like how some people are born into such a lucky position with family and other people have to work so hard to like build something like that because he can just be obnoxious. He can break things. He can be drunk and annoying and he's still a part of the family until he'll still have that community. But this exister-in-law like she's always showing up. She's cooking for everybody. She's teaching people the kids how to ride the bikes and like she could be exiled just

for getting a boyfriend. And that really is so sad. I know that double standard almost and it's like well he's blood. But honestly, chosen family is a lot of times it has so much more weight because you're choosing to love that person. You're you're choosing to like take them under your wing and like make them family. So, it's like she is chosen family at this point. She is family at this point

and his stupid decisions and them separating shouldn't impact her place within this family. There's one last comment here I'll read. OP says she was at the birth of all my children and every time one of them were born, she would stay with me for weeks to help postpartum. She would be homeschooling her kids and helping with mine. My husband said that he would disown his own brother before he ever disowned her. My heart couldn't allow for me to ice her out. I just don't understand that. She's such a sweet person. I'm not saying she's perfect, but she's really so so kind.

Yeah. Yeah. That's family. That's family. Mhm. That's family. Not the [ __ ] enjoy your vacation this year and maybe circle back next year once people have learned their lessons.

Yeah. And seen, hey, this is the glue. We're not going to Yeah. disrupt this. She's like largely the reason they get to have such a close. She's the one like putting these events together and making that magic happen. Yeah. Big part of it. A really big part of it.

OP. Yeah. I mean, OP OP for sure. That's what Yeah. But like even sister-in-law, they're they're kind of a little dynamic duo by the sounds of it.

Yeah, I get why they why they're, you know, not attracted to each other. What's the word? Why they like each other?

They're super connected. They're attracted. They are like, yeah, they're similar.

Platonic soulmates. No, I I really like it. There's a lot of comments here though that are really good. I mean, people are sharing their recipes. Um, someone says, "Okay, I'm also coming and I'm bringing dunk cakes. It's an upside down spice cake with the fruit layer being raisins, dates, apricots, and figs that have been soaked in brandy for two day. Two days, one bite and your pain in the ass brother-in-law will be passed out on the floor. Problem solved. And they give their whole recipe. This is so funny cuz on a Patreon episode recently, you and I were just talking about how we would love to be able to put together a recipe book of all the Two Out Takes listeners like family recipes.

Yes. Like that. I I actually tweeted that once asking for people's like favorite family recipe from like many generations and I got like so many good recipes from that because like yeah you can go to the online cookbooks and like those can be amazing but there's something about like everyone's favorite family recipe is so much more special.

So special. And usually the family ones that have been around for a couple years are so so much better than anything you'll find because they've been tried and tested and oh this one not as sweet. Let's add a little more sugar next time. So you'll see like lines crossed out and then it goes from like half cup sugar to like 3/4 cup sugar. And it's just like

I love a story. So I really really really do want to put that together. So, if you're listening to this and you're like, I have a family recipe I'd love to have included and you have a really good story behind it. Like, I want people's stories, too.

That's nice about where these recipes came from. Like, this was my grandma's recipe and she fled Europe and blah blah blah blah. Like, I would love the story and maybe I don't know, like a memory behind it. But, it's going to be happening over on Patreon. I will post like on the free tier. So, like if you can't afford Patreon or just like aren't interested in the bonus content, like come over. You can still participate. And I think it'd be so so cool to put a two hot takes recipe book together.

Yeah. Especially for the holidays. It's so perfect. Be so good. Yeah. It'd probably be done by the next holidays. It's going to take a little while to get through everything. But maybe maybe spring. Maybe we can not procrastinate. Maybe we can get on it quick. But yeah, I think it'd be really really good. So chime in with a family recipe. I would I'd really love that.

Yeah. What one are you going to put in? I feel like our biggest family recipe is the chocolate pie my dad's grandma made.

Oo. And that's the one that I told you about on the cake tier. Mhm. I love that.

I'm so excited to hear what your mom thinks about these stories. Michaela's mom listens you guys

and then she'll call me about it. Yeah. She had a she had a hot take on that uh cookbook story.

I know. We've had a few cookbook stories recently. I know. Was she worried about our take? Was she

No, no, she agreed with us. Okay. Because But was she worried initially when we were kind of slow to get there?

No, I think she's always on our sides. That's why I love her. [gasps] Thank you so much for coming on for these holiday stories.

Happy holiday. I love it. I love it. Two takes holiday. Let's go. Happy holidays, guys. On to the next one. Okay, we got Lauren here. Woo! Coming in with uh some more holiday hot takes, huh? I guess. Yeah, you're you are wearing a blanket that looks like my shirt.

Yes. I'm like, "Okay, here we go." I cannot stop buying these rugby shirts on eBay. Nordstrom Rack. I'm obsessed.

They're cute. You know, the the boxers that you got us for your wedding, I wear those to bed all the time.

They're honestly the best boxers are because they're boxers made for girls. They're from um I think I got them from like American Eagle and they're just so comfy. Mhm.

Okay, here we go. Hopping into some more holiday stories. Um, this one I've been saving for you because you have co-workers. You work in like more of a traditional setting these days and so I figured this would be a good one for you. And everyone's been asking for more work stories.

Going to have a work theme coming at you very soon. So, if there's any stories you want to see, send me a message. Drop the link in the comments. But this one,

I'm nervous. [clears throat] This is coming from AI T ah and it's titled, "Would I be the [ __ ] if I tell my coworker he can't participate in Secret Santa due to his conditions?" Okay, so I'm hosting a secret Santa at work. It's an employee run event. No managers involved, and I have been the one to host it for the past few years. I made up some questionnaire slips, sent out an email, and started handing out slips to those that wanted to participate. One of my co-workers, we'll call him Trey, who I actually really get along with, can be dot dot difficult at times and has chosen my hosted event as one of those times for some reason.

Anyways, here's how it went down. I hand him a slip since he participated last year, and I assumed he would want to play again. He took the slip from me and then asked me, "Can I buy someone a gift and not get one?" I told him, "No, it doesn't work like that. Someone is going to draw his name and they're going to want to get him a gift." He told me to just put in someone's name who doesn't want to play. And I said, "They don't want to play though, so I'm not going to do that. You either play or you don't. There's no in between." This just makes sense in my head. But he kept arguing with me, saying he really doesn't want any gifts and he doesn't need any more clutter in his house, but he still wants to buy a gift for someone. Put it towards a donation. Another coworker overheard our conversation and kind of called me out for it, saying, quote, "Damn, just let Trey give someone a gift and put someone's name in at random.

Someone gets an unexpected gift and Trey doesn't have to receive one." I really hate the idea of this, but I told Trey that I would think about it. That just makes no sense to me. I'm not going to put a random person's name into that hat, and I'm not going to start asking around who wants to get a gift but doesn't want to buy one. I feel bad because I want Trey to be able to play and participate with us. But I don't like getting pushed into changing rules and making exceptions for people. In my head, the way I set it up is the way the game is played. You either play or you don't. Am I wrong, though? Should I let him donate his gift to someone else?

Well, okay. Actually, I said put it towards a donation, but I just realized that kind of takes away from the game because the idea is someone else might also like to like buy something specific for Trey. Yeah.

So, that's kind of like the fun of Secret Santa is like not only getting a gift, but like hopefully picking something. So, I actually understand where OP's coming from. But what I do think is that Trey could also, if he has a lot of clutter and he doesn't want the gift, then go and donate the gift.

Literally, I don't know why both of them are being so obstinate over something so simple.

Simple and dumb. Yeah. Like, genuinely, like you're creating ruckus $15 gifts. Like, it's

it's not it's for fun. So, like let let it be fun. Yeah. It's not It shouldn't be that serious. No. Or like don't do secret Santa. Do like a white elephant dice game instead. People that want to play, bring a gift and then like Trey could walk away from the gift, you know, at the end cuz it's not so like geared towards people specifically. Exactly.

You're just buying something, right? And then whatever is left at the end that people don't want gets donated.

Yeah. Like that's another way to do it where it's not as like targeted then. Mhm.

But it is kind of like a I get where Trey's at cuz it's like I think a lot of us are like no I want I want nice things or you know my family is notorious for like the dice game and

we used to do dollar store dice game because like people didn't want to spend money

but then at the end you're left with like a can opener and a box of crayons that aren't Crayola and don't really write that well and like just stuff you wouldn't need.

So then we upped it to like I think it's now our limit is $30. But now people are buying like they're buying things from like TJ Maxx that original price is 30 but cost them 15

and you can tell they're $15 things cuz that's like it's a scam. They were never meant to be 30. They were always supposed to be 15.

Yeah. That's so funny. I hate the injustice of a dice game. I actually can't stand.

You really do. Every year I get stuck in a bad dice game and so this year I just said I'm not playing. But that's why it's this is so funny cuz it's like a full circle because you're like why are they taking it so seriously? It's just for fun and then I'm now you're like I'm taking it off.

I will not take this injustice. No, I just think it's not that serious. If you don't want something, don't play your office secret Santa instead. Donate.

Yeah. Or just like buy a gift for somebody. I don't I don't know. I don't know.

Go do um I don't know. There's so Yeah. There's so many ways to get involved and like by the time you're hearing this episode, it'll be too late for this year.

Also, what if someone gets you a gift that you really like? I know. Maybe they notice something you needed around the office. Maybe you said you were cold all the time, so they're going to buy you a nice little sweater.

Yeah. I don't know. But there's so many ways to like give someone a gift and have it be meaningful. There's Operation Santa that USPS does. And there's

I think he just probably wants to be a part of the game and wants to like and wants to be included and wants to wants to give somebody a gift. I think that's where he's at like more so than just like wanting so badly to like buy a gift and like give it somewhere. I think he wants to be like included, you know,

then his name gets put in and at the end of the day he can donate his gift. Exactly. There you go, Trey.

Exactly. Come on. Yeah. Both of these people, why are they being so weird? Top comment. Why don't you recommend that Trey ask for a donation to a charity for his gift? He could write down that he doesn't need anything and ask for a modest contribution made to a list of charities. That was my first thought, right? Remember? But at the same time, I do understand like somebody might be like, well, I don't want to be told what to get somebody like I I want to play secret Santa and do my little present hunting. I want to buy a Santa face. Like I want like you know what I mean? So I'm like I if somebody told the person what to get them. It kind of takes away from the game as well. True. And someone does say here like someone needs to talk to Trey.

Some people don't realize how difficult they make things for others. I'm assuming you are doing this on top of your actual job. Him adding ridiculous caveats to make your voluntary job harder instead of just thinking of something he could do tells me a lot about his personality. And that coworker that overheard has even less of a sense than Trey. another co-orker saying, "Damn, just let Trey give a gift to someone and put someone else's name in at random. Someone gets an unexpected gift and Trey doesn't have to receive one." Like, isn't that exactly the issue Trey is having? He doesn't want a gift and so the co-orker's brilliant solution is to gift someone else a gift they don't want. Also, what if there's 20 other people in the office and now someone who didn't contribute to Secret Santa randomly gets a gift and the other 19 people are upset? I didn't get a gift. I don't think I didn't get a gift.

I don't think people will if they do that's oh but Morgan like they can't like they people are crazy

but maybe they maybe they are crazy but like you need to when you're in a setting like that in work like you you need to kind of tame your crazy you know Lauren I've gotten people people have been like pissed off when I was in doing OT people are pissed that they came to the company lunch potlook late and didn't get a cupcake and they actually like stormed out.

Wow. People are nuts. People at Lululemon got pissed and pouted when they didn't get assigned to the pant wall. I don't know what that means. It was the best job in the store. Um, yeah, cuz everyone wants their pants. That makes sense. It's all adding up. Um,

ah, checks out. Yeah, you know, I mean, yeah, you might be right, but at the same time, that would be kind of crazy. Like, I think we're all adults. We don't have to be like that inclusive. Like we should be inclusive, but like if we decide to give somebody a random gift who didn't ask for a gift and then like there's 19 other people being like, "Where's my gift?" It's like, dude, we don't have to be that like inclusive.

We're getting a little too crazy with Yeah. Like I'm sorry. You guys just need to like maintain your feelings like that.

Well, that's the thing for Trey. It's like Trey, participate or don't. Yeah. Exactly.

Like if you want again, if you want to feel good for doing something, then go donate your money.

Yeah. Exactly. Do Angel Tree. Exactly. It's actually really fun. It's a great time.

Or just like Yeah. Exactly. Like shut up. Like if you like go and give your gift to somebody else and just be like give give it to somebody who is playing the game and give them an extra bonus gift.

They'll probably love it. There you go. There you go, Trey. They're the winner of of the the game. They'll be so happy.

There you go. And then other people might feel left out, but we don't have to be that inclusive. We can sometimes give one person an extra little thing to make their day. I like it. We do get an update. Okay, let's do it. Hey guys, this issue has been resolved. You can see some of my replies for the full story. In short, I've asked him to handle the logistics of his gift, and I'm going to let him play. The post is still getting some traction. I was going to ask the mods to close it, but I really enjoy reading about people's work secret Santa experiences, so keep the stories coming. I'd like to say a few things and some points that keep getting made. One, just let him play and don't put his name in, and then just one person won't have to buy a gift. It takes the fun out of the game for most people. Like we saw with Trey, pretty much everyone wants to buy a gift for someone. That's why they play. Getting

gifts is always fun, too, of course, but we all love to buy gifts for people, and I'm not going to take that away from someone.

Yeah. Two, I pressured him into participating when he didn't want to. That's goofy. No, I'm not even going to read that one. Three, have a raffle for whatever gift he gets. My response, to be frank, I just really don't want to set this up. Yeah, I was pressured into doing the secret Santa by my co-workers again because I've done it in the past and no one else will really organize it. But I'm extremely busy at work right now and I have so many issues last year with managers getting involved. I didn't really want to have to do it again.

Before you all say I shouldn't have done it again, I'll explain myself a little. For one, it started as an alternative to an absolute terrible job our company does for their Christmas gifts. It ends up being a lottery every year with some people getting huge flat screens and others getting a dog bowl. We started doing Secret Santa as our own way of taking control and making things fair and fun and also being able to further bond with each other. It's a small company. We're all pretty close, especially us hourly folks. Two, the company is shutting down on December 31st, and this is a way for us to kind of go out on a high note in regards to our friendship and work relationships.

Some of us may never see each other again. It's been a great bonding experience for us in the past, so I figured we should do it one last time while we can. Well, I've rambled on long enough. Thanks for listening, everyone.

Mhm. You're welcome. Yeah, Opie has another comment. Basically, I told him that he could choose to find someone to put in his place or write down to donate to a charity in his name. He is thinking about putting another of our co-workers kids down for fun. I'm going to let him participate so long as he gets it figured out on his own. There we go. There you go, Trey.

There we go, everyone. Wasn't that hard, was it? Come on. That was fun. That was good. Next one. Well, let's see if it's just as fun. Cute little petty problems.

Love it. Love it. This one is coming from Am I the [ __ ] 16 days old titled Am I the [ __ ] for telling my friend that proposing is not a suitable Christmas present. H I have a friend who I'll be calling Harry. Harry and I have known each other for over a decade. We're in our early 30s. He was a part of my own wedding party and 99 times out of 100, he's an all-around great guy. Harry has been dating his girlfriend for around four years. She's an absolute diamond and brings out all of the best qualities in him. A

a couple of weeks ago, Harry confided in me that he was planning to propose to his partner over Christmas. She's very family focused and he is setting it up so his parents unexpectedly visit them. They're doing Christmas with her family this year. early in the morning and he will propose during present opening in front of his and her parents and her siblings and their partners and kids. When chatting about arrangements a couple of days ago, Harry made a throwaway comment about the engagement, saving him some time in relation to the rest of his Christmas shopping. I asked him what he meant, and he said that since he was proposing, he hadn't planned to get his partner anything else for Christmas. I said that the two were not mutually exclusive. When I got engaged, albeit not at Christmas, my husband still got me a birthday present the following month. Harry raised that the ring was costing him more than

several usual Christmas and birthday presents combined, which is true, but it is not the case that he is scraping together every last penny to buy it. and there is absolutely money to spare for a couple of gifts that he would usually get his partner. I also pointed out that since he is hoping to surprise her with the proposal that it would become quite obvious that something was a foot if there were no presents for her from him under the tree. We went back and forth for a while with Harry continuing to take the stance that getting engaged is definitely a gift. I said that it was all well and good, but that his girlfriend will absolutely have bought him presents and that he will both appreciate and use and that an engagement is in no way the same kind of exchange in that sense. Additionally, while his partner is in no way materialistic, she is someone who appreciates the give and take of mutual

present exchanges like Christmas, white elephants, etc. We didn't have a major fight or anything like that about this, but Harry said that he's probably not going to share more about the engagement with me because I have differing views. I don't want to be a stubborn old fool on something I'm clearly wrong about. So, I would appreciate the view of internet strangers on this. Well, well, first of all, it's not necessarily OP's place. It's kind of their relationship and [gasps] whatever he decides to do, he's going to decide to do. I think it's totally fine if you're trying to give helpful hints and clues to what would make, you know, his partner happier, but like I don't think you need to really like get in a fight over this and lose sleep over it because it's kind of [gasps] What do you think? I mean, you're you're the gift person though, so like you're probably like no, no, no. like this guy

shall not move forward with a proposal unless he also has Christmas gifts. Um I don't know because I I understand where he's coming from where like okay this engagement ring was a lot of money but at the same time like he will also get a ring eventually that will probably cost a decent amount of money so it balances it out. And like I think I just kind of have an issue with like oh well this proposal is such a gift to her. You're getting engaged. It's about both of you. Yeah. You're the one asking and giving her this ring. And so maybe in in this relationship, their engagement is, you know, more for her. The proposal is more for her. But I still think it is about both of you because an engagement leads to your marriage. So, but the ring is also very expensive. Like

Yeah, it is. Like I feel like women Yeah. Women are typically not expected to pay as much for the ring for their partner.

Justin's ring costs more than mine, right? But like that's not common though. You know what I mean? Like a lot of times like people like

I don't know. I like I had a an ex who was like adamant about wanting one day to get me a ring that was like 30 or 40 grand and I was like absolutely not.

So crazy. I was like I wouldn't accept that even if that was like affordable for you at the time. I would just feel like I would rather have that money go to so many other things. But anyway, my point is is that like a lot of people like spend a ton of money on these rings and so I don't know what he's working with, but OP did mention like there's money to spare. So, I do think that I do think it would be, you know, if you're going to propose to somebody, like a lot of people propose a random time throughout the year and then they also still they're not like, "Oh, I'm not going to give you Christmas presents this year because I proposed." But then again, maybe some couples do that. You know, maybe that was something that like they agreed upon. Like, I'm You want the best ring? Would you be okay without having like presents for like a year because I'm going to have to save up all that money to get an extra nice ring? I don't

know. Maybe that is something that they I don't know. I If someone proposed to you on Christmas, would you be okay not getting anything else?

I'm not like a really big gift person, so I Yes, I love presents. But that's But I know that that's that for someone like you, like that's your love language. like it feels so thoughtful and I just I don't know that's like not really my

thing. So I I I think I would be happier if they gave me a a gift on top of it cuz I like opening presents. I think it's fun to unwrap stuff.

So even if it was something small, I would just like a little Yeah. A little something.

Yeah. Like just, you know, like maybe like a a a face my favorite face mask or something like

at home face mask like just fun things to unwrap. I like that. Yeah, but I wouldn't be too hung up on the idea of getting like me another nice gift.

I also think I've I've read this once and Oh, I know where you're going with this.

And I Yeah. And I don't know. True. Okay. It is true. But um if you propose to people on a holiday or their birthday, it's looked at as a gift.

So if you guys get a divorce, then they get to keep the ring because it was a gift.

Because it was a gift. Whereas in a lot of states they would have to return the ring if you divorce or if you just call off the wedding I should say. Yeah. Cuz once you get as we talked about in last episode we recorded in Patreon prenups obviously you can make them whatever you want to but like if you're just going off of like an engagement

community property. Yes. And you end the wedding. So So at at at that token it actually is a very nice gift. I know. I think maybe this is where it boils down to. I don't think you should propose on holidays. I don't think you should propose on moments that are just meant to be a holiday or about that other person like a graduation. But like let the holiday be the holiday cuz then now every Christmas every Christmas it's like oh we got engaged on Christmas. Oh we got engaged on Christmas. Yeah. But people don't really they kind of it's more of like a acknowledgement rather than a whole celebration. and how people do with their anniversaries are usually their wedding dates. So, I don't think it would really be that big of a deal. I don't know. Some people some people are getting so crazy that this this one influencer just changed her baby's birth date because she didn't want her baby's birthday to be so close to Christmas,

which you can't change someone's birth date, by the way. That's not a thing. But like people don't even like having their birthday around Christmas. So, it's like

I don't know. Like I just think let the holidays be the holidays. give that person the full moment a different day. And I personally I would be annoyed because like why are you skimping out on my Christmas presents? If you would have picked a random Tuesday, I would have still got Christmas presents and I would have been engaged. So why are you messing with me now? Why are you taking away presents?

Oh my god, you you crack me up. Morgan is like whenever I lived with her, she'd like always order something from somewhere. So

anywhere. It could be a regular piece of mail I got. [gasps] And she'd be like, "Oo, presents." And I'm like, "Oh, someone sent you something." She's like, "No, it's from me. To me, from me, presents. I love presents.

I just love them. I don't [gasps] know. They just make me feel good. It's like one little like

dopamine hit as you open that that tape presents. [gasps and laughter] I just I have like such a I don't know. I have a really bad like buyer remorse." And then I have like a hard time with like space and like where I fit everything. So I just think

I return a lot of [ __ ] Yeah. I I hate returning. I'm so bad at returning. So then I end up sticking with it and then I end up not using it and then I feel guilty. It's this whole thing which is why I think that I'm a little bit like averse to it all. But but I get I get it. Like I do you know like I'm I'm wearing this ring that you got me and like this ring

it it doesn't take up space. It's so cute. So if you give good gifts, you're fine.

Yeah. Like I know I'm like I understand the concept of like gift giving feeling really good cuz this like made me feel good, you know? So like I do understand that concept. It just doesn't come as like common and as often for me. So that's why I'm like me and Morgan have always been like a little bit like we've always known this that we're a little bit different in that aspect. That's why like I love us discussing the story cuz I'm like I don't think I would care. But like I looked at Morgan I'm like but I think you would. I know. I know. But overall, this one, I don't think you're the [ __ ] for pointing out that this might be tacky to not give her other things. I also do think she would know something's up then, 100%, especially with his parents rolling up.

And like, if you want it to be a surprise, I don't even care if they're fake boxes. If you really don't want to gift her something, put some fake ass boxes under the tree. But I will say if you give her something, even if it's like a little something, a a massage gift card or whatever you want to do, manicure, she'll want to get her nails done after this, do something. And then be like, "Oh, oops. There's one more I forgot about." And then you get down on one knee. Then it's really a fun surprise. A good proposal.

I think that is the best way to do it. Um it amps it up. Yeah. I just think that depending on their relationship, like it wouldn't be the worst thing. But I agree that it would be way better to have it be cute and like a few little gifts just to warm it up and then

with the zinger. Yeah, cuz then she really won't see it coming. Mhm. Okay. Top comment on this one with 15K up votes. I'm just reading it now and it's like it's kind of what I felt and someone goes, "Not the asshole." I think the idea that proposing is a gift from him to her as opposed to a mutually joyful step forward for both of them is a bit distasteful. And this comment down adds on it. That's how I'd feel about it. I got engaged at my birthday party and I still got a switch too from him. The engagement is a mutual celebration of our love, not a gift to me. That's they're saying it really concisely and that's how I felt.

I know. I know. Well, I guess I'm just like if roles were reversed though and if I was spending that much money on a ring for my partner, I feel like I would still view it as of course our partnership in itself is a gift and a celebration for both of us mutually,

but that amount that you spend on saving towards that ring, yeah, is still this like special gift. I don't I mean, might have to do a poll on this one. Might have to do a poll. We just recorded a Patreon episode, too, and we we had a story on there. We were like,

"Damn, might have to do a poll." Cuz we're like very We're We've been very opposite today.

Yeah, I know. That's so true. Every single story we're like on the opposite ends and we're like like talking our our takes out.

I I don't want I don't want to do the poll. I don't want people to all just like just dog pile me. I don't want that. And they probably will. So, like let's just let's not do that.

And I agree and I do agree with you. I do agree that like having like the gifts is is nicer. Again, some people do have the conversation though like, "Hey, like if you want an extra nice like ring, like are you okay with us not like exchanging gifts?"

Yeah. Then have that conversation or like I think for me, I think you need to have a a conversation about the engagement ring your partner wants before just doing it.

I don't think engagements should be total surprises. I think you should at least have a conversation of like

where do you see us going? Do you want to get married? Do you like a similar page

and I get wanting to maybe have a surprise and pick out the ring but like that person has to wear it.

So for me I was very involved. I didn't want a real diamond. I think real diamonds are a waste of money. I wanted a moisite ring.

Mhm. And so my ring was really like cost effective. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. frugal. Yeah.

And I just think like again, who's this ring about? Like does she even care if he spends that much? No. Maybe she'd want a Mo night so she actually gets presents at Christmas.

Yeah. So like I don't know. But I think it again like people just kind of keep pointing to the attitude of it. Precisely. It's not even about the gift or lack of. It's about the mindset.

Yep. The mindset of I'm the gift you are getting. Well, okay. But I also think we're hearing this from OP, a friend for sure. Not

and not even Yeah. Not even the actual like Yeah. the guy. And so I'm like OP I don't know. He might have just been defensive because he's like my friend is telling me like how I need to show up for one of the biggest moments of in my life. And now and I I worked so hard to like save for this ring and I'm so excited about it. And I like and and now he's telling me that I'm not enough. And so now I'm getting defensive. Like maybe he was like feeling like like you don't know my relationship. Like you don't know my life. Like maybe that's why he like responded that way and then like oh he's retelling. I don't know. Like

yeah that no that's a very valid point. I bet you anything Harry's going to go out and buy gifts after this conversation.

He's probably just was defensive and was like shut up a little shameful. Yeah. Like you don't know me. Like don't like no what I'm doing is right. And then he's probably going to go and be like god damn it. And go and like buy a bunch of presents. That's what I'm picturing in my head. Which is why I think that I'm just like this conversation in itself sounds just like two people just like bickering and one person being defensive because it is a really big moment and like you do you have to save a I mean not you don't have to like obviously there's affordable options but it sounds like he did save a lot for this ring and it's probably really like nerve-wracking and so I think I just wouldn't be surprised if he got defensive because of that and then is actually going to like go and take his advice. Yeah.

Yeah. I'd be very curious. Um, a lot of people are like, to be honest, this would be a dealbreaker for me. It unears some underlying attitudes that I would not want to be stuck with for the rest of my life. Plus, it makes it look like a shut up ring in front of everyone else. Embarrassing,

you know, disagree with that. I just am like if if this was coming more from like the source, then I could have more of a read. But it's like I don't I honestly don't know how that person got there. Like that seemed really aggressive where it's like it's a shut up ring.

You have no information about their relationship at all. Like because he's proposing at Christmas and chose not to buy an additional present. It's a shut up ring,

right? That's a reach. That's That's actually not even a reach. That's a you pulled it out of your ass out of thin air.

Yeah. Like that's that's weird, right? Yeah. So that's that's what I'm saying. I'm like it's hard to really like hard come down hard on this guy because it's not even coming from him. This is just like

a friend retelling a story. And and I just think that like if if it were to be me and I were to have like

saved up and been really like nervous about a really big moment and then my friend were to be like kind of being like, "What are you thinking?" I might first knee-jerk reaction get defensive too for sure. But overall question, am I the [ __ ] for telling my friend that proposing is not a suitable Christmas present? No, you're not the [ __ ] Like

I think you're it's your friend. Yeah, he was your groomsman. You're close enough to where you can be like, "Hey buddy, get her another present."

Not the [ __ ] Agreed. Um, there is a little bit of an edit. OP quotes, "He shouldn't propose to her in front of others." And they say, "Getting engaged in front of family would suit his partner to a tea. This is definitely something she would want based on previous conversations."

Quote, "You shouldn't involve yourself too much in your friend's life." OP says the discussion lasted maybe 5 minutes while we were having a drink, including Harry saying he'd not bring it up with me anymore. In no way have I told him point blank to do/n not to do something. And we have spoken civily on other topics since. I would hope that everyone has a friend or two who will be honest with them if they think they're in the wrong. Yeah. To be frank. My question here centered on the proposal as the gift, not on if I'm a bad friend. I think OP has their head on straight.

Also, knowing that it was only like a 5minute combo, I it's not that serious. Yeah, it made it seem like it was like a full-on like whole brawl and they weren't talking and you know, like it kind of seemed a little more dramatic, but I Yeah, there's

it's a bit more chill. Yeah. Yeah. No, I I agree with that. And I think this is just like a good rule of thumb for like everyone listening. I think like more so like the hot question to take from this one is like should you propose on a holiday in general?

That's totally up to each individual though. I'm like I want to know what you guys think in the comments. Maybe that'll be the poll. Should you propose on a holiday?

I think the whole thing should be you should know your partner well enough to know if that's what they would like. So you're in the car right now. You're driving.

Mhm. Here's your opportunity. If you're listening with your partner, talk about how you would like to be proposed to. Yeah. Throw out all the hypotheticals. Here's your opportunity, guys. Pause the episode. Talk about it. Do you want to be proposed to on a holiday? Yes or no? If it's yes, do you still expect other gifts? Yes or no? Do you want a real diamond? Yes or no? Do you want uh even a generic ring? Do you want gold? Do you want silver? Talk about what you want. Do you want to get him a ring shortly after? So, you both wear rings until the wedding. Talk about it. Here's your chance.

Mhm. But you should know. I agree. You totally should know because some people that is like their dream. I I watch enough Christmas movies to know that that is a romantic Hallmark dream for some people. So, I can't imagine like I mean Christmas is kind of I think in Minnesota like it's snow and you're bundled and you're cozy and cuddly. It does feel a little bit more romantic, but like insert like Valentine's Day. A lot of people get proposed to on Valentine's Day. That's a big holiday. That counts. Doesn't have to be just Christmas, too.

Yeah. Like I was thinking like I would take St. Patty's Day. Really? No, I'm just kidding. I just I just was trying to think of a random holiday like Fourth of July. Mhm.

I don't want to be proposed to on Fourth of July. See, I don't think I care. Some people don't.

Yeah, I don't think I do. I just I care about too much. That's my problem. Well, I care about too much in other aspects. So, like I'm also in mental health. Don't worry.

We're both just not right here. Not not in this circumstance. On this one, but in other ones. You're not alone.

But yeah, no, our brains are definitely, you know, there's a lot of fire up there.

Yeah. Okay. Holidays, man. They bring out some crazy. I think a lot of people are going to get proposed to this holiday. Someone's listening right now and they're in the car with their partner driving to the proposal. And then if they answer that question where it's like I don't want to get proposed to on a holiday and the person's just the person's like sliding the ring out of their pocket and just hiding it like [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ]

Yeah. Just like pulls over for gas and calls the whole family like abort, cut it. We're not doing it anymore. Game over. We got to propose in a couple weeks.

Oh god. If this happens and you literally get proposed to after listening to this episode, invite us to the wedding. Like, what? What? What?

Morgan, you don't have time. I don't have time. I do. You always say that you I do get a decent amount of wedding invites still from you guys and I I look at your pictures and they're so beautiful, but yeah, I'm very short on time right now. But I love you guys. So, just tag me on Instagram maybe.

Yeah. Okay. Thank you, Lauren, for hopping on for these holiday stories. See you. See you in the new year.

Okay. I don't want to leave yet. I'm kidding. Bye, guys. Okay, bye. On to the next guest. Hi, friends. Look who our last and final guest is for the holiday stories.

You know, this has been a long time that we I got to, you know, join you for two hot takes. But what's really interesting,

two hot takes sets over there. I know. We uh went on a field trip. We are on the father knows something set. For those that are new to the show or I don't know, maybe you've been out of the loop for a while. My dad used to come on in the early days quite a bit

before we even thought it was going to be a show and uh some of my uh two hot takes were a little offthe-wall.

Were you Were you out there? I don't remember that. But people liked your responses enough that they wanted you to start a podcast as well. So, my dad has his own show. He takes all listener writeins. And it's basically two hot takes, but with a dash of dad advice and me and Justin chiming in from time to time. And still chaotic per usual. Really good. But, um, that's like our second little kid. So, we're over on his set because we just got done recording an episode and I figured, hey, let's include him in the holiday episode and cap it off with some wise wisdom on this naughty or nice ho ho horrible holidays

and a hot take. Maybe. Okay, maybe let's see if dad has it hot. Okay, let's get into these.

Okay, dig in. Okay, let's dive into this. Okay, this is coming from AI ah am I the [ __ ] titled Am I the [ __ ] for blaming my fiance for Thanksgiving being a disaster?

Absolutely. You think [ __ ] I don't know. He He probably deserved it, but let's find out before Let's not be too too quick to judge.

So, you might actually be not the [ __ ] He may not be. No. I'm sitting in my pajamas fuming about this whole thing and my fiance is acting like he holds no equal footing here. I need to know I'm not crazy. When I was about 4 years old, my parents introduced me to their friend Rose. She started spending a lot of time with us and eventually moved in. They were always close friends and she was very good to me, but I didn't think anything weird of it. A lot of people knew I lived with family, so I thought it was like that. When I was a pre-teen, they explained to me that they were all together. Not polygamy or a sister wife situation, but Rose was in love with and dating both of my parents. It was a little jarring, but I accepted it. And honestly, it didn't change much. Rose was still one of the people who helped me with homework, pitched in with dinner, taught me how to ride a bike, etc. She was there for every big moment,

even the sad ones. The only thing that changed is they started kissing one another in front of me, but nothing gross, just the typical parents pecks or whatever. I knew this wasn't normal for every family. My friends were fine with it when they found out. Not all of their parents were as understanding or accepting, but we were old enough that we could see each other outside of our homes, and it didn't impact me a whole lot socially. Twice. I had a boyfriend who found it weird, but it was revealed early on in our relationship, so it wasn't a huge heartbreak. I've been with my fianceé for the past 3 years. We've been engaged for one. When we started dating, I explained to my parents, and he was cool with it. He's hung out with them and spent the holidays with us. His family lives across the country, and they haven't been able to fly out to visit much. We've only afforded one trip there since I started dating him. The

first time I was meeting them, I asked my boyfriend to tell his parents about my parents and Rose and asked him to let me know what they said. He told me that they were completely fine with it. Every time we saw each other, it never came up specifically, but I would mention Rose in passing and no one batted an eye, so I figured all was fine. This year, his parents were able to fly out for Thanksgiving. My fiance and I were hosting. My parents and Rose were coming too. Again, I don't think much of it. Everyone's under one roof. Everything's nice and merry. Then at some point, I go to check on the food. And when I come back, things are noticeably awkward.

Fiance's parents, my parents, and Rose all look uncomfortable. Fiance looks annoyed. I ask what's wrong, but no one will tell me. I awkwardly announce that it's time to eat. The meal is quiet outside. My parents and Rose are engaging with me. Fiance's parents leave for their hotel as soon as we're done eating and don't even bother to stay for dessert. I'm even more confused. My mom eventually pulls me into the other room and explains that while I was checking on the food, she, my father, and Rose were talking about a trip they're taking. Fiance's parents looked confused and Fiance's mom asked, "Rose is going with you?" My mom said, "Of course." Which seemed to disturb them. My mom then said she explained that they were in a relationship together and that even further disturbed them.

Somebody [snorts] wasn't being, you know, clear. My mom told me that she was hurt, that I lied, that his parents were okay with them. It wouldn't have changed, that they came, but they would have been more careful to not make it awkward. I told them I didn't lie at all. My fianceé had told me they were okay with it. She apologized for accusing me, and I apologized that she went through that. She, my dad, and Rose left not long after that. My fiance and I got into a huge argument after this. you think?

He said he didn't know how to tell them, so he just didn't. I told him he's been lying to me for 2 and 1/2 years and put everyone in an uncomfortable position. I asked what his parents thought and he had told them Rose was my aunt who lived with them to save on rent. I asked him what he expected to happen.

[clears throat] My parents and Rose aren't making out and in people's faces, but when they're in what they assume are safe spaces, they act like they're in a relationship. He claims it's all on his parents for being weirded out and making it awkward. I said, "No, this is on him. He lied to everyone and made it terrible for everyone. Sure, his parents could have acted normally and they are at fault for not recovering and trying to have a nice meal, but he's still more so at fault. He just doubled down and said he didn't do anything wrong. He is now mad at me and says that I shouldn't be blaming him for this and instead should just be mad at his parents. I am just so confused and lost and I'm wondering if I'm going crazy by being mad at him. Am I the [ __ ]

Well, I gave that answer in the first in in my first sentence. You actually were thinking he was the not the [ __ ]

No, no, he is the [ __ ] You do think he's the [ __ ] Absolutely. Okay. Why? Why do you think that?

Well, he lied. He did. He didn't come clean. So, my question really is, who fixes this mess?

I think he needs to. Absolutely. He's got to be the one to go in there and he's he's got to go do what he should have done in the very first place and fess up and say this is a a might be a more common than what we think in our lives with people but this is definitely something that's going it's going on in this family and don't be rock be prepared for what it is and if you have questions ask your questions and whatever it is I mean we're family look this couple's getting married.

Yeah. I mean, they're going to have children. Well, they might. They may not. Now,

I don't know if they're going to make it to the altar after this one. This is a pretty big deal.

This is a very big deal. This is a pretty big deal because it goes back into truth. And, you know, do you believe your partner? What else are they going to [ __ ] lie about?

I know. Well, the thing is, too, it's like it should be on him to go and fix this, but can he even be trusted? Like first and foremost, you need to go and clear the air with your parents and just be like, "Hey guys, I don't know how to tell you. They're all together. That's their that's how it is." And I think he needs to apologize to her parents, too.

Absolutely. Because that's uncomfortable. Like, you're going in. You think it's a safe space. And they they even said like, "We just would have been more quiet about it. We wouldn't have made it awkward."

They're not in the wrong at all. He really did mess up by lying. And for 2 and 1/2 years,

he is clearly the [ __ ] There is no doubt about it. And he's got to he's got to fix this thing if he's going to be in a relationship with if even if she allows him to stay. There's a lot of fixing to do here

for sure for his family and her family. And the only one that has to do apologies here is him. And he has to own up to all of it with everybody. he better be prepared to take the heat and show what kind of man he is and how strong he is to do it because she she is totally clear on this and and so are her parents. I mean her parents have

it's their life. That's right. This is acceptable to them. We we live in a country where you can do what you want long as you're not hurting anybody else. And they're not

they're very open about this and they have a love and that should be respected.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, a lot of people are kind of having more mixed reactions than I would expect, but overall, I'm seeing that most are leaning, not the [ __ ] AITA doesn't have a bot that takes all the votes and determines it. But here's a comment that OP does respond to. Your fiance is so obviously in the wrong here for exactly the reasons you identified. There's not even any evidence his parents were embarrassed about the polyamory. They could have just as easily been embarrassed that their son lied to them. OP responds, "Yeah, I haven't spoken to them, so I obviously don't know their thoughts if it was just a lot to deal with at once or if they felt embarrassed for initially being nasty and confused over Rose attending the vacation."

Someone else responds and goes, "OP, I would text and email them and tell them that you're sorry they didn't know that you asked your fiance to tell them about your family dynamics several years ago when you first started dating and that he told you that he had and that you had no questions or issues." But again, I don't think it's her place to go and be like, "Your son was lying to you. I told him to tell you blah blah blah blah blah blah blah." It's

his it's really on him. And if he is unwilling to fix it, done. This isn't someone you want to be with. He's he's cowardly.

Done. He's crap. The thing is, what what do we call it? Say it with me. What? DTD,

which means dump the dude. We all know DDD. Dump that dude. If he can't be honest, he can't be man. He can't man up to this. He did it.

Yeah. And you know what? This is not normal. like this is not the typical usual thing you encounter. So to be a little surprised, yeah, I get it. But again, like it's none of their business. And even if he would have told them and they had a bad reaction, then you just know how to navigate it going forward. You don't do shared holidays. You seat them on opposite sides of the venue at the wedding. But you need to be transparent and honest. It's when we date someone for two years, we know their family. We've talked to them. They kind of know the dynamic they're going to walk into. I'm surprised that she didn't have conversations or that that they didn't even ask her about it and maybe that she should have even find it funny that they didn't ask her more about it.

I think they did, but she's only been over to their place once during dating. And I think how it was kind of phrased is like the questions they asked were just normal questions that

it wasn't like, "So, how does your parents relationship work with Rose? How does she play in? Who do they share?" blah blah blah. They weren't getting specific.

And it's not her job to do that. I mean, it's quite their business. It you know, her her job is I mean, she could have said, "Look, you know, my family is doing great. My mom, my dad, Rose, everyone's wonderful." And they could have said, "Oh, yeah, you got this in their mind. Oh, yeah, Rose." and not even use the word aunt Rose, just Rose. And she would think it's totally fine. Clearly, he's at fault. I'm not saying that it's that that he is not. I just also recognize that, you know, in conversations that I have with, you know, people that I'm involved in family. I do get involved and we have a lot of conversations about all the characters in our family and we all and I look at everybody in a family as a character.

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Um, we have a couple more comments from OP. This is the first time that she's caught him lying about something, but he does tend to avoid conflict. He is the one who usually just agree with something just to kind of end the conversation and move on. They have been working on it and OP has told him it's okay if we don't agree on something. He doesn't have to bend to what I or someone else wants. He can have opinions, too. They are in a polyamorous relationship, not polygamy. OP wanted to be like very clear. They're not polygamist.

But we do get an update. Okay. Mhm. So OP goes on to just kind of explain a lot of the common questions like why didn't I tell his parents myself about my parents and Rose, this was a decent point. While I don't believe it is my fault for what occurred, I did understand the POV that this was my situation, my family, and it's something at minimum we should have done together. I guess when it comes to situations like that, people's parents finding out about my own, usually friends, they just do it for me. It's not something I ask them to do. They usually ask me permission before our families meet and I say yes. I thought it would be easier if my fianceé told them before our arrival. So, it wasn't just me word vomiting, "Hi, nice to finally meet you. By the way, my parents are in a polycule." But looking back, yes, I can acknowledge I should have offered to tell them as a couple. That being said, if he felt that

uncomfortable doing it alone, I wish he would have told me. He should have told her. This was again, she has no ownership of this at all.

He was He said, "I did it." He could have easily said, "I can't do it." Mhm. Do it with me.

Yeah, he could have done that. Well, OP does go on to add point number two. Do his parents think that my parents and Rose are related? And so OP is now like, "Oh, they assumed Rose was an aunt. My mind went to family friend, but Jesus Christ, realizing they probably thought this was a flowers in the attic type situation." No [ __ ] they freaked out. So, they're probably actually thinking that maybe Rose is related and an actual aunt versus a family friend that got the term aunt. Well, I don't know what they think, but the bottom line is he at this point in time, the minute after this whole fiasco started, he should have been within five minutes at his parents' hotel telling him, "I'm sorry, mom and dad. I failed to educate you properly. I was told to do this two years ago, and I am wrong, and let me get you every let me let's get everybody clear so nobody's uncomfortable." He had that he had that

obligation to do within five minutes after this event. and he still has not done it.

Yeah. So, here's the actual update, you guys. We do get like beyond the clarifying.

Of course, there's more. Anyway, on to the update. As per point number two, I realized the context that they were lacking may be playing a part in all of this. So, early this morning, I texted and asked if we could meet up and talk. They were all for it. I went without my fianceé as we still weren't really talking. We met for breakfast and the first thing I asked was for them to give their side. As most of you expected, the weirdness and judgment they were giving was because they assumed Rose was my mom's sister. They actually seemed relieved when I explained the whole story and are supportive. They want to properly reme.

I didn't want to get into the whole I don't know where your son and I stand as that wasn't their problem. However, his mom did clarify. So, my fiance's name knew the whole story this whole time and lied.

Yes. Yes. A [ __ ] lied. You're [ __ ] son. I was honest and said yes. I said maybe I should have made sure he actually told them, but his dad actually interrupted and said if he promised to tell them, then it was on him to say it. They were both very disappointed in him. They actually said what a lot of you did. Even if he lied for all this time, he should have spoken up when things got awkward and smoothed out the situation.

He still failed or even grabbed me, too. They felt even worse, but I told them it wasn't their fault given the context of the situation. I don't blame them for acting weird. The meeting ended on a positive note. We're all supposed to have lunch later on, but given everything with my fianceé, I didn't feel great about going, so I had him go alone. I told his parents ahead of time and they understood. When fianceé came back from lunch, he apologized. He said he wasn't sure how to tell them and kept meaning to. He also kept hoping it would naturally come up. I pointed out it wasn't that he just didn't tell them. He actively lied. Of course, they never suspected Rose was anything more than an aunt in my stories because that's the lie he planted. He was sincere in his apology, but then he mentioned he got a tongue thrashing from his parents. And I wondered if he would have apologized had they not told him what a jerk he was. I

said I understood if he felt weird about telling them, but he should have told me. We could have navigated [ __ ] together. Instead, he let it explode and then did zero to help clean it up. Nor did he take accountability until mommy and daddy scolded him. He made my parents and Rose look bad, made me look even worse, and most importantly, he lied to me and his parents for 2 and 1/2 years. How am I supposed to trust him again about anything? I listed some of the examples you guys gave. He got quiet and said he understood, but he wanted to rebuild the trust. I asked if he was really okay with my family dynamic, and he insisted he is. He says he loves my family and really has no issues. He just didn't know how to tell them. I said, "I want to believe him, but you can never fully trust a liar again." He asked what we could do to fix this. I said, "I needed time." He offered counseling, and I said I'd consider it. We had started

planning our wedding a few weeks ago, but that has been put on hold indefinitely. I had been living with him since the engagement, but I'm back with my parents and Rose for now. I have to decide if this is something I can live with going forward. It's only been a few hours, so I genuinely have no idea if I can forgive him for this and move on. One person said, "Hopefully, this will be a funny story one day. Remember the Thanksgiving where your parents didn't know who Rose was? And I don't even know if I could ever get there. I love him. I thought he was my person. I don't want to throw it away, but I need some space.

If we move forward with the relationship, we will absolutely be going to counseling." I told him even if we break up and I don't go, he needs to enter therapy for his conflict avoidance. He didn't disagree. He also called my parents and Rose to apologize. They were civil, but I know they are not happy. Fiance's parents, however, invited them out to a doover dinner before they head back to the West Coast. And with my blessing, they're going. It'll be nice if they can be friends after all of this. That's where we are.

Everything is so fresh, and I still don't know what I want yet. I'm going to take the holidays to reset and rethink about a lot. Thank you for all the advice. We definitely want to watch for these updates,

see what she does to because Oh, yeah. I mean, this is super fresh. This is a trust issue and she hand she has handled this with such grace and

a lot. Yeah. I mean, totally in in control of who she is and and what it takes to get it done.

I know. We like this woman. We do. And I mean, it is tough. It it it's really really hard when a lie like just shakes you to your core in your relationship and it's like how do we get that back? But you know they're still pretty young. I shut my computer thinking I'm ready. I'm like they seem pretty young at least. But now I'm realizing we have no mention of age. So I don't know how young they are actually. You know, he I don't care how old.

You still You don't lie for two and a half years. You You don't do that. You got to grow up. Not in Not in this whole thing. You You You certainly especially when they're coming to dinner.

I mean, I really really really love his parents, though. Oh, they're great. Like, they just kind of got with the program, felt bad about how they reacted, wanted to make it right, taking them out to dinner. I mean, they're good eggs. I'm sure they raised a good egg. he's just maybe got some serious issues with conflict avoidance and after some therapy could really work through that and you can build the trust back. But hey, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work and you move on and you find the next one.

Wow. I know. If you are on your way to a holiday party and you're lying to your partner, you got a couple minutes to pause this and come clean.

I would recommend it. Come clean, guys. That's all I got for this episode of Two Hot Takes. I believe this is the last episode of 2025.

So, I finished 2025 for you. You did. Won't see you until the new year. We do have an episode coming on the first. No days off this year. Worked through the wedding, worked through the holidays. Love you all so much and just want to make sure you're you're fed. Um, if you want even more content, come over to Patreon. We've got three amazing bonus episodes this month. Come over to Father Knows.

If you haven't seen Father Knows, check it out. We have 182 episodes, I think, now.

Are you sure? I'm pretty close. I God, I keep shutting this computer and it's like, why? Why do I bother that many?

Mhm. We've got 246 episodes of Two Hot Takes right now. Mhm. Father Knows has 181 episodes. Ah, but I shot a couple that aren't there yet.

So, you're at 183. So, we will hope that you'll see them all. And once you start, we we know you'll enjoy it because that's the word out on the street. We get started, we get hooked, we love it.

It's not bad. So, check it out. Yeah. But see you guys in the new year. Thank you for being here another year and supporting this show. It's amazing what this show has grown into and what we've accomplished this year. And 2026 is going to be even bigger, even better. But it wouldn't be possible without all of you guys. So, thank you so much and happy holidays.

And we'll see you in 2026. And maybe she might save me for the last show of 2026.

Maybe. Maybe something before. We'll see. We'll see. Bye bye guys.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Festive Fiascos || Reddit Stories || Two Hot Takes Podcast"?

Morgan (Host), Justin (Guest), JT (Guest), Lauren (Guest), Michaela (Guest), Kaylin (Guest).

What is "Festive Fiascos || Reddit Stories || Two Hot Takes Podcast" about?

The discussion centers around chaotic and humorous holiday experiences shared from Reddit, highlighting the festive season's challenges and mishaps. As the hosts recount these entertaining stories, they aim to provide a lighthearted distraction for listeners during the often hectic holiday period.

What is mentioned in this Two Hot Takes episode?

43 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Social Trey, St. Nicholas, engagement, Two Hot Takes, proposal, AITA (Am I the Asshole?). Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Festive Fiascos || Reddit Stories || Two Hot Takes Podcast"?

The episode runs 2 h 38 min; the transcript is about 30,589 words in 531 timestamped sections.

More from Two Hot Takes

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 24, 2026.