How G’s Surviving Her Baby Leaving

What this episode is about

The episode explores a parent's emotional journey as they navigate the significant transition of dropping their child off at college, highlighting the complexities of letting go, feelings of existential dread, and the evolution of what can be shared about their children's lives as they grow older. It reflects on the changing nature of the parent-child relationship and the challenges of finding connection amidst the growing independence of their children.

Key takeaways

• Dropping kids at college: the paradox of parental love—parting is sweet sorrow wrapped in existential dread.
• As children grow, the Venn diagram of shareable stories shrinks—welcome to the age of silence and solitude.
• Who knew parenting would evolve into a complex balance of emotional support and respecting boundaries?
• Social media once felt like a scrapbook; now, it's a cautionary tale of oversharing gone wrong.
• The masterclass in emotional management? Just ask your kid before crying in the car—parently, they've got this down.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Glennon Doyle (Host) · 41 min speaking
• Amanda Doyle (Guest) · 15 min speaking
• Abby Wambach (Host) · 12 min speaking
• Tish (Guest) · 3 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: Anne & Andrew Tish
2. 5:00 – 10:00: Andreas Craig
3. 10:00 – 15:00: Anne & Andrew Tish, Chevy Chase, Margaret Chase Smith
4. 15:00 – 20:00: Abby, Chevy Chase, Love Warrior
5. 30:00 – 35:00: Queen Emma
6. 35:00 – 40:00: Queen Emma
7. 40:00 – 45:00: Ritual, Abby, The 19th
8. 45:00 – 50:00: Andreas Craig
9. 50:00 – 55:00: Queen Emma, The Kissing Hand, Andreas Craig

Notable quotes from "How G’s Surviving Her Baby Leaving"

• The moment that I knew I wanted to talk to you all about this is the moment right before we left Tish in her dorm room. And here's the thing. I when the kids were little talked about them a lot to you all to this community. We were in the.

  about Anne & Andrew Tish · at 0:57

• And then I have this moment where I just look at the baby. Craig's there. He's working with some kind of little wrench or something.

  about Andreas Craig · at 8:16

• Recurring I wrote about that. That is the song that was on playing in the house the moment I found out I was pregnant with Chase and I wrote about it in Love Warrior.

  about Chevy Chase · at 15:04

• The Curlmith community. At Curmith, we're celebrating curls and we know it's a curls world. Find your curl confidence and take the curl quiz at curlsmith.com to get 10% off your first purchase or shop curl now at Ulta Beauty.

  about Curl Smith · at 21:12

• Losing Tish to college because which is so beautiful. I can't even. But those two girls, Abby and I were talking in bed the night before we left, and we were this probably for our youngest is more earthshattering than the divorce.

  about Abby · at 39:56

• Ritual put their essential for women 18 plus multivitamin through a university-led clinical trial. In just 12 weeks, participants saw vitamin D levels increase by 43% and omega-3 DHA.

  about Ritual · at 42:02

• And yet, how often do you see menopause talked about? Almost ever. That's where The 19th comes in. They're an independent nonprofit newsroom reporting on gender, politics, policy, and power and making sure stories that matter to.

  about The 19th · at 43:12

• The day before she actually went to preschool, we read the book that so many of us read our babies before they go to school, which is called The Kissing Hand, which is like about this mama raccoon who sends her baby to school.

  about The Kissing Hand · at 54:39

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Anne & Andrew Tish — Person · Central referenced person (hosts' daughter; college freshman) · 3 mentions · first at 0:32
  Her move into a college dorm is the catalyst for the episode’s discussion of parental grief, identity shifts, and letting go.
• Abby — Person · Co-host / co-parent (speaker in conversation) · 3 mentions · first at 17:52
  One of the primary voices processing the transition, discussing empty-nest feelings, family dynamics, and how the household changes as kids leave.
• Queen Emma — Person · Referenced family member (younger sibling; high school senior) · 3 mentions · first at 33:33
  Her emotional reaction during the goodbye and her upcoming transition highlight sibling grief and the cascading impact of children leaving home.
  Talked to him about why he how long he was going to be home and he actually came home to help Emma through losing Tish to college because which is so beautiful. I can't even.…
• Andreas Craig — Person · Co-parent / family member present at move-in · 3 mentions · first at 8:18
  Appears as part of the family support system during dorm move-in; participates in the practical tasks and shares the emotional moment.
• Chevy Chase — Person · Referenced family member (sibling; older child) · 2 mentions · first at 13:19
  Used to illustrate the family timeline (pregnancy memory, sibling departures) and the ripple effects on younger siblings when one child leaves.
• Margaret Chase Smith — Person · Referenced author/poet · 1 mention · first at 12:52
  Cited as the author of the poem 'Good Bones,' used to frame the emotional context of sending kids into a difficult world.
  Children into. And the moment in the scrubbing the rooms reminded me so much of the good bones poem.

Books & papers

• The Kissing Hand — Book · Primary recommendation · 1 mention · first at 54:47
  Referenced as a book read to children before they go to school, symbolizing love and connection.
• Love Warrior — Book · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at 15:11
  Mentioned in the context of the host's personal experiences and reflections on parenting and change.
  And which is so interesting because the landslide song I that has been a recurring I wrote about that. That is the song that was on playing in the house the moment I found out I was pregnant with Chase and I wrote about it in Love Warrior.

Sponsors

• Curl Smith — Company · Sponsor · 4 mentions
  Mentioned as a sponsor of the podcast, promoting their hair care products for curly hair.
• Ritual — Company · Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at 41:59
  Mentioned as a sponsor of the podcast, promoting their multivitamin product.
• The 19th — Company · Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at 43:18
  Mentioned as a sponsor of the podcast, promoting their nonprofit newsroom and menopause newsletter.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:09 Okay, Pod Squad. Here we are today. I have been a little bit dreading this episode to tell you the truth. I keep pushing it off and off and off and saying to the team, why don't we record something else today? Um, but here we are. What we are going to talk about with you today is um well, we just dropped our tissue off at college and that has brought up lo so many feelings and existential dreads and love and terror and um so many big feelings. And so the moment that I knew I wanted to talk to you all about this is the moment right before we left Tish in her dorm room. And here's the thing. I when the kids were little talked about them a lot to you all to this community. We were in the trenches together of young parenthood.

1:25 These we were dripping with children and they were sucking us dry. And the only thing that we could do to survive while we were being mercilessly pecked to death by chickens in our homes was to commiserate together. And that was a beautiful thing. And then the kids got older and I started feeling a real strong sense of protection of them. It's like when they get to a certain age, you realize that they have their own story and they're living their own life. And the vend diagram of what is ours to share becomes smaller and smaller and smaller the older they get until there is no

2:13 overlap in terms of what is sharable, right? I mean, that's how I think that's very true.

2:19 I know. But that's too true to say out loud. Yeah. But the reverse of that is unless until there's nothing sharable by you, you know, like then they are the sharers of their own story. So it's not like

2:33 silence. It's like you don't get to be the person anymore. But that's lonely, right? Because it's not like, oh, as the ven diagram gets smaller, things get a [ __ ] ton easier. It's harder

2:45 harder in some ways, but you can't you can't talk about it because it's more it feels more intimate and particular. Whereas like toddlers are going to toddler and they're all the same, but it suddenly feels like they're specific.

3:00 Yeah. To their character or struggles or and you can't talk about it anymore. That's what it is. It's particular. It's like nobody's going to be pissed at me when they're 30 cuz I mentioned that they were teething. Mhm.

3:14 Because that is something that just happens to everybody and or not sleeping or crying or whatever. But then

3:19 just being a general [ __ ] three-year-old [ __ ] Like it's it's different to be a particular 13-year-old [ __ ] than a general three-year-old [ __ ]

3:28 Exactly. And also, just as a side note, like it was just our consciousness changed so much. I you know when our when I was writing monastery and blogging we didn't have a general consciousness about maybe we shouldn't put our babies faces on social media.

3:45 Yeah. It felt very like this is a what we do. This is how we love. This is how we share our families. Like and then oof that is one thing that I look at very differently now than I did then. I feel like and and I always wonder if how if our kids will ever understand that it really was a different consciousness or they're just like why did you do anyway?

4:12 It's like when you see the pictures of your parents like smoking cigarettes at your um at your baby shower and you're like really y'all?

4:20 Yeah. And they're like yeah really we weren't so sure about that. Yes. I think exactly. I think of it as how I think about our parents with like diet culture.

4:29 Mhm. Like, did you really not know better than saying those things? No, they didn't. And and we really did not know better.

4:36 I literally had a cigarette in my mouth when I was four years old. They took a picture of me.

4:43 It was not lit. I was just like a, you know, a precocious little kid and I just had it in my mouth

4:49 and like I literally have that picture in my in my what is it called? Well, your parents are glad they didn't have social media. They would have been in big trouble. But but I do think that is a similar vibe like they're going to look at us like wait what? So the point of this is that I many years ago many six seven years ago really stopped talking about them completely which as you mentioned Amanda is kind of this terrible part of raising older kids because the problems do get more complicated and it does get harder mentally. It's like physically more challenging as kid when they're little and then just so emotionally and mentally challenging and scary and then you have less of a support system because their stories are theirs and you can't share and anyway

5:42 well they have opinions about your your feelings about them. So, you know, when they're young, they don't know anything different, and when they're older, they're like, "I don't think that that's right." And you're like, "Oh."

5:53 And they're usually right. But it's not right. Oopsies. But I'm standing in the dorm room. We've already been through I mean when I say months of preparation for this moment like we have sat together and talked about over and ad nauseium as you might imagine two lesbian parents do with their daughter just like circling the drain of existential dread of this moment and how she wants it handled and what we're and in true Tish fashion she has told us how she wants this handled. She has said to us, "Here's what I want and need. You two are not going to cry in the room. I won't be able to handle it. You're not going to cry in the dorm room.

6:42 You're going to leave me and you're going to get in your car and then you're going to cry. And I need you to cry when you get in the car. I need you to send me a video of you crying because I need to know that you cared enough to cry, but I need it to not." So the orchestration and control of this moment just makes my little Alanon heart swell and break or wisdom wisdom of what she needs. There's a very thin line between control and wisdom. I think it was very a lot of foresight,

7:11 a lot of vulnerability. I need you to be devastated. Just not devastated live in my face, but recorded so I can refer to it as often as necessary. I think it's brilliant.

7:22 Okay. Good anting. Mhm. So, we're in the room. I have brought with me a can of sanitizing wipes.

7:36 Mhm. Okay. I am I come to my senses, right? And I am scrubbing the entire bunk bed with sanitizing wipes as if this is going to save the world. like the sweat equity, the the I'm sweating. I am I am scrubbing. I need you to know I am not

8:01 a clean person. Like I don't do this. I am not a germaphobe. It would be better if I were more like this. So this is out of character.

8:09 Not your typical love language. The scrubbing. It's not my love language. I am scrubbing down.

8:16 And then I have this moment where I just look at the baby. Craig's there. He's working with some kind of little wrench or something.

8:24 Wrench. A small wrench. He and Abby are wrenching. Just putting all of their energy and and might into raising this sleeping situation a centimeter.

8:36 It's just none of this matters. We raising her bunk bed a little bit so she could put some stuff under it. Yeah.

8:42 Right. And I'm scrubbing with the sanitizing wipes. And I just realize because I look to my left through the door at the other room and there's this mom in there and she is scrubbing with all of her might. She is scrubbing. Her daughter's looking at her and going, "It's clean. It's clean." And the mother is that were relevant to what was happening.

9:08 That were relevant. And my heart just exploded for the parents in that moment because y'all, we were we had nothing left but these sanitizing wipes,

9:24 right, to use to love our children into the next moment. Like we were scrubbing

9:33 like it was the one thing we could do in this crazy scary world that could still be of some service or use to our kids.

9:47 Like worst case scenario, you will not get sick in the first couple of weeks cuz this room will be clean.

9:54 Well, but it's also just like you I can't protect you. I don't know if you're going to make friends. I don't know if people are going to like you. I don't know if it's going to be scary. I don't know if you're going to get any disorder. I don't know if bad things will happen to you. And I don't have any defenses against any of them.

10:10 Yeah. All I've got is these little sanitizing wipes and and all the moms had them. I kept looking through it's like I think we maybe saw a a Tik Tok about it. Like I don't know how we all brought these sanitizing wipes.

10:22 We all did. The algorithm is like empty nesters in grief. Have you considered sanitizing wipes?

10:29 They're like okay we'll try. and all of these parents are are in the hallways and I'm walking by watching them all do it. And I just wanted I I thought so much of this community because I actually wanted to be like, you guys,

10:43 oh my god, are we okay? Like I wanted to call all the parents out of the hallway and be like, I know they're bitching at you and they just can't handle this moment and you we can't handle this moment and this all this like snark and impatience and cleaning is all just love. It's all just love and I just want us all to come out of the rooms and huddle up and hug each other.

11:08 But that would have made Tish so embarrassing. It is kind of interesting though cuz

11:13 so I thought I'll just um that's when I like stored it all up to talk about it here because I know so many of us are just like sanitized wiping our way through parenting because there's so little we can control and as they get older there's less and less and so we just bring our little things and it's so fruitless and it's so beautiful. Yeah, it's funny because, you know, walking through the halls or just even walking around campus, all the parents are just trying to keep it together. And so when you catch one of the eyes, it's like this complete shared we know what's happening here moment between all of us.

11:58 And nobody says anything. Everybody just kind It's like we're the walking grief. like we're all walking this like grief path and it's very bizarre. It's a very solemn for half of the community and then the other half these freshmen are so excited. It's like this the dissonance between the two is unbearable.

12:22 Yeah. And then it's like and this is best case scenario. This is the luckiest situation, you know. Um,

12:31 so I just felt so much love and solidarity for all of us. I think it's all heightened too right now just because of this moment in the country and what we're sending our children into. And the moment in the scrubbing the rooms reminded me so much of the good bones poem.

12:54 Yeah. Um, which maybe we'll We'll pull up for the end. Maggie Smith. Yeah. Maggie Smith. Yeah.

13:05 Um, so there was this one moment where right before we walked towards the dorm, I just we were all carrying all these bags. It was me, Abby, Craig, Tish, Emma. Chase was he had a trip and um Tish was like way ahead of us of course and she was holding her guitar and and her book bag. So, she had her backpack on and her guitar and she was walking through this like I don't know almost like canopy of trees towards the dorm and it just stopped my heart because it was like a perfect image of her walking into her life because it was only her back and she wasn't looking at me to see if it was okay to keep going. She was not looking back and she had her guitar which is like half of her personality and she had her backpack which is her like student self which is the other half of her personality and she was just walking into her life and I took a picture I texted it to you Amanda and I just the thing that kept playing in my

14:21 mind was the line from Landslide that song where it says I'm afraid of changing because I've built my life around you. That is just what kept playing in my mind over and over again.

14:38 I'm not going to be able to keep it together because it's like it feels like a landslide, you know? It's like

14:44 Yeah. Everything that you walked on, that you built, that you arranged your life around is just and you have to kind of start over. Um

14:58 Jesus. And which is so interesting because the landslide song I that has been a recurring I wrote about that. That is the song that was on playing in the house the moment I found out I was pregnant with Chase and I wrote about it in Love Warrior.

15:14 No way. Yeah. Because it kept that that line about can I handle the seasons of my life?

15:22 And then she just says I don't know. I love that so much. Probably not. But it's very um I've been thinking a lot about why it's so visceral and so deep and it's because all of these moments I think there's something at the a there's something at the heart of of all of our pain and fear. There's like one thing that is the ache

15:54 and that is the idea that we're all gonna leave each other. Yeah. Like that's it. That is why we start wars and hate each other and get addicted and are miser like it's this one basic human universal pain fear truth which is we are all going to lose each other. And this these moments where you watch your baby walk away and you cannot go with them is like a rehearsal. It's it's like a dress rehearsal for the ultimate moment. That's why it strikes such a incredible nerve because it's like me watching my baby walk away and knowing I can't go with her and knowing in lots of ways she's on her own now and hoping that I've done what I could do to prepare her and hoping and hoping and hoping when all that's really left is hope because all your scheming is over is exactly what that moment when we leave them for real will be. And I think that's why it strikes up everything. It's like

17:15 um Yeah. I don't like it. Yeah. I don't like it though. I don't like it. I'm I was just like, geez, I got to figure out how to be a person again my myself. And here we are contemplating mortality and death. And yeah, that's the truest thing. I don't want to know that yet

17:41 is what I'm saying. Like I don't I'm I'm just like, whoa. Okay, how am I going to How am I I'm going to start baking. That's what I'm going to do. That's there's your sanitizing wipes, Abby. You just start baking.

17:56 I like thinking of it like that because it's dramatic and and of course cuz I am dramatic and it's it's heavy, but it's it's not heavy in the way of like I think it's beautiful that life gives you these moments where you can kind of experience it and then think, okay, what would I do differently if this were the ultimate moment? What would I have wished I had shifted or done differently? Because oh my god, what a gift. I get to do that now.

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21:36 You know, I w I was thinking a lot about some things that I would do differently and it was in um I left Tish a letter and in it I was writing about how one of the things that amazes me most about her is her absolute refusal to abandon herself and her absolute trust in herself. She always kind of just knows what she needs and then she asks for it and does it regardless of what everyone else is doing. She's like not super um susceptible to peer pressure. And you know, she when she was in going into preschool, she was four and she was like, I'm not ready for this.

22:30 And it wasn't like a I don't this level of stress is just not going to work. My my body is not ready to acclimate to that environment.

22:43 Exactly. She was like, "Oh, so see I just got here like four years ago. So it's a fair point."

22:49 Yeah. I'm not going to that place with those people. So, I don't know how to explain it other than

22:57 when she made a decision like that, it just felt rational and important. There's It was just like, "Yes, that sounds right." I mean, we that's when I started a preschool in my house for our neighborhood because it was called Dreams Preschool. It was the absolute

23:13 best. You're the best. That's so sweet of you. And then when she and then one day she was like, "All right, I'm ready. Let's go." It was the next year and she was

23:22 she's like, "I don't like the teacher. Can we go to like the school?" She was like, "I'm going to actually need an education." It turns out so she went and she never looked back. And then this year, right after high school, the same thing happened. She was like, "Actually, I'm not ready to go. I'm not ready to go to college." And so she took a gap year. And it was amazing for her. I mean, it really I think sometimes when you're just going and going, I I feel this energetically for myself, too. When you're like on a treadmill that that the culture has put you on and you're just going and going and going and you're like, you know, on to the next treadmill, just that's where the culture told me to go. So, on to the next. It actually there's a lot of benefits of just getting off completely and thinking about what you actually want

24:15 and not just defaulting into the you know jetream of like really being intentional about what you want next. I I think she went in this year because of that intentional space with much more clear desire and gratitude and excitement.

24:36 And she was older. She went through a lot in the the gap year. She missed her friends and she was experiencing a lot of FOMO from her friends who were posting all about their freshman college experience

24:48 and going through some of that turmoil and kind of friction inside of her. Honestly, it made her really make this like like really choose school.

24:59 Yeah. And then and then just the maturity level like honestly like my body was so much more relaxed than it would have been had she had not taken the gap year.

25:09 Totally. Can you imagine? Yeah. Yeah. Like I felt like oh yeah you do have yourself

25:14 and you're ready. Yeah. You know. Yeah. I think it's really really cool that you're talking about this because I

25:22 I feel like there's a because this is so typical such a typical experience like many many families go through this that there's this kind of conflation of typical with normal or regular

25:42 and and so I was at a dinner this weekend and it was um John and me and two other couples and one of them had just dropped their first born off of college

25:57 and we were like how did it go? You know, the usual like small chat stuff and they were like absolutely awful and traumatic

26:09 and crushing and we are in such grief. Oh, and they talked all about it. And it was so refreshing and beautiful because I feel like there's this idea. I mean, not dissimilar to when you lose someone in life. There's like things you're supposed to say. You're supposed to be like, well, you know, we had a beautiful service and well, you know, they were sick for a while and well, you know, like things that make it palatable.

26:38 And they were like, it's absolutely not palatable. we go the things they were describing, all of his friends, they work at the place um where we go every week and and we keep going there and we keep looking for them

26:53 and they're not there and we have to remind ourselves that they're not there and they're never going to be there in the same way and you know on Friday night we were waiting for him to get home and tell us about all of the like crazy [ __ ] they did and hear the stories and we're not going to get that and

27:12 and this whole like ecosystem of the four of us that we have spent 18 years building with their younger sibling will never be that again. It will be different. It may maybe it'll be more beautiful but it will never be that. And that's what the the landslide is is it's like that thing similar to everything else in our life. Like you're building meticulously with care and it's there and it's in front of you and you see it and then one minute it is gone and irretrievably so.

27:47 It will never be that thing again. Mhm. It will be different and lovely if you're lucky. And but I just think it's odd that we don't talk about this as as the incredible grief that it is. A lucky grief, but but a real Yes. A lucky grief. It's just hard though because I think

28:14 like the parents like the way that I experienced this in my body like I kept having to remind myself not to center myself that this is not my experience. Yes, I am having an experience and this is making a big impact on my life but in the dorm room I just remember being like

28:36 this is not your moment. This is Tish's moment. And so it's like this this like magician trick that parents have to do in their mind to not center themselves. And so then when you get into the car, you've held it all together

28:52 or tried to at least and then we know what our reality is, but our kids aren't thinking what is this like for my parents?

29:00 You know, like they're not they are not they're not worried about us in any way, shape, or form. And so it's like this weird thing that we do feel this grief and it is hard and it is life upending and it is confusing and it and it is and it is and it is

29:19 and I think that's why I wanted to do this episode cuz I was like this isn't for her,

29:23 right? But this is a thing for us. It is a thing and we shouldn't have to just stick to the script. And when we're together as parents in this phase, we should be able to talk about because it's about the landslide of of what you've built, of your identity, of your community. For me, it's very much a landslide of my only the only place I've ever felt real belonging. I don't I don't go around feeling belonging in in groups. This is the only little group I've ever truly felt safe in, relaxed in, seen in, and that. So, so that is a big loss. But then there's another thing that I think has to do with not just grief for self, but a confusing grief, which is just watching your baby enter the complications of adulthood. M

30:16 I was, you know, I've been rereading to the lighthouse this week and there's this part about where Mrs. Ramsay just looks at her little girl or no her little boy and just thinks feels this in internal grief and the words that come to her mind are you'll never be this happy again. M and I don't think we talk about that enough like why is it that we feel such reluctance or a grief or fear of allowing their world to become bigger and them going out into the world. And I think it's because we know what it's like to be human. Because one of the reasons that it's so adorable and and feels so cozy, although it's exhausting, to have a three or fouryear-old, is that you know,

31:06 you got them. You got them. And like all their little grief, they might be crying for six hours because they can't find their paci, but like

31:14 you know that you can handle that grief. Like but you're creating your own culture. Yeah.

31:21 You're like, "This is our culture and I am the maker of it." And then you're like, "Unfortunately, I'm submitting you

31:29 to the external culture because I can no longer curate your culture." Yes. And all of the all of what comes with being a human being on the earth. So, I'm watching Tish walk away through the tree canopy with her little backpack. It's not about you're going to college. It's about you're going to adulthood like you're going to no matter what you're going to experience such heartbreak and such loss and such delusion and such joy and such magic and hopefully it's you know the 51% thing. is just a little bit better than the but you do know that that's where they're headed towards every single up and down and pain and beauty that you have walked and it just makes I kept thinking it's not sad is not what I'm feeling. I kept saying to Abby, it's just the magnitude.

32:30 It's not sad, it's just so big. I think one thing for me, I don't know, this this may not make any sense whatsoever, but when I when I first got into this family, there was an actual real life thought that I was like, "Okay, I've I know that I've got 10 years with these kids." And the next thought is, oh, that's like that's a pretty good amount of time to not have to worry about thinking about other things. Like kids are such um they allow you to not have to think about the hot loneliness of yourself.

33:18 They're like a north star. They're a good uh blocker blocker. They take up a lot of time and space

33:26 that you don't have to actually fill the void with of yourself. And so when I, you know, Emma's a senior in high school now and so the big one is coming next year and I I keep having to think, well, we should just start doing generational living. I think when they're done with college, they'll just move back with us. A lot of cultures could do this.

33:53 Thank you. This is very American that we just think you got to be out on your own. You're independent, whatever.

33:58 It's also very American that they will all come back and live with you for six years because we don't have any jobs.

34:04 Yeah. So, good news, bad news. Yeah. Good news, bad news. But, but the truly I do think that they're good uh way to not have to think about maybe our own [ __ ]

34:17 100%. You know, and so I that's something that I'm feeling in my body like oh okay like

34:22 maybe that's part of this grief and fear of like what we are personally walking into.

34:28 Yeah. Aside from them about your own life. Yeah. That is what when you were saying um like the the ache at the center of everything and that's that we're going to lose everyone. I in my head I was like, "Oh, I know what she's going to say." And it wasn't that. It like for me for me my

34:46 ache at the very center is just this gaping emptiness which is the the same thing as we're going to lose everyone the same thing as like there's nothing there there that will stay and what is the center and

35:03 is it and and I think that's why we just like fill fill fill cuz like if you keep filling there will you'll never have to face the emptiness. And so when I think about like empty nest, I'm like empty nest like the idea that like when it's

35:22 going when there isn't something to love to fixate on to pour into to fill fill fill fill filling them up filling them up.

35:34 It's filling them up, right? and and and you of course are fulfilled somewhat too, but like then you're just left with your own emptiness and you've got to figure that [ __ ] out or get take up pickle ball or something. I don't know what you do, but like there is that's a real scary prospect.

35:59 Yeah. Yeah. But and it's so funny because it's like I think at the core of things it it does come down to what is life? What does gives us meaning? Is life worth living? It it's it's all that because basically if we don't if we think that the the state of being human is just emptiness. That's what makes the walk away so hard because it's like that's what I'm passing on to you.

36:23 That's what I brought you here for. Like that is can't be it. Mhm. That just cannot be it. Otherwise, none of this is worth it. Because when you're walking when you're watching your baby walk away, you want to be thinking and knowing in your bones, yes, you're going to have so much pain and yes, you're going to have emptiness and yes, you're going to but also this is worth it because what's going to come with that is going to make all of that almost okay. Yes. But I think like for my crazy brain, it's like I don't feel I don't feel the fear of emptiness for them.

37:09 Why not? Because I feel and this is how crazy I am. I feel that what I have done and built with them somehow gives them an immunity. Oh,

37:23 like that has been my purpose to try to give to them a different way. So when they go, so goes my purpose. So goes my

37:36 Yeah. Um I am left with not the effort to try to make sure they don't have the whole of emptiness, but just with my own emptiness. Oh, so you feel like you when they walk away they will have like a pale full of water that you have poured into them but you will be left with not no liquid

38:00 and you have not like filled for yourself. So is that what it feels like? Like you will be left with then no nothingness. Well, just with like figuring out both a like I have to figure out if my life is enough is is um full is because it's not a question if they're there, right? Like I I don't ask that question of myself. Mhm.

38:39 But then when I think about them not being there, it's not as it's not an easy question to answer

38:49 and it leaves you with all the other questions. Like I know I have so many friends who

38:54 honestly really don't like their partners. But it doesn't matter almost when you're in the trenches of parenthood. You're so busy. You're so you're just dividing and conquering. So, and I think there's a lot of dread in that that people are like, "Oh my god, now I'm stuck with you for 30 year more years or without even a mission."

39:18 Um Mhm. That's why there's like 40% more breakups, more divorces right after kids leave for college because you're not even looking to that. If you're finding your fulfillment over here, you're not even looking over there. And then people look over there and they're like, "What the fucks?"

39:35 Mhm. And then you look at the siblings. There's that thing. I mean, I can't even started about that.

39:40 How are Chase and Amber doing? Well, a beautiful thing is that our oldest actually graduated from college last year and came home. And when we talked to him about why he how long he was going to be home and he he actually came home to help Emma through

39:56 losing Tish to college because which is so beautiful. I can't even. But those two girls, I mean, Abby and I were talking in bed the night before we left, and we were like, this probably for our youngest is more earthshattering than the divorce because your siblings are who is there with you in the trenches no matter what. Like,

40:21 the divorce happened so early for Emma, but her one constant, her two constants until Chase left have always been her siblings. Mhm.

40:29 So, I don't know. Um I just know that it's really really tough. Yeah. I'm the youngest.

40:41 I'm the youngest of seven and so I experienced it six times where somebody would leave

40:47 and then a few years later somebody else would leave and then it came down to the last one. Mhm.

40:53 Um, and it's like it's kind of a weird thing. Um, because then you are just like left with your parents

41:03 and who wants that, you know? It's just like your parents and just one of you. Like it's just kind of weird

41:10 and all their angst and love is just pointed straight at you like a beam of sun that's going to burn you into like oblivion. So, it's so beautiful that that our oldest has decided to stay at least for a little while to give Emma a little buffer.

41:23 You know, she's going in whatever 7 to 10 months. Oh, good. Oh, God. Jesus, Abby, you didn't need to say that.

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44:22 It's wild because the first essay that I ever wrote that really went viral and started this whole thing honestly was this essay called don't carpey DM and it was about now this has been the versions of this have been written a million times so it won't feel new but it was it felt new at the time it was this like phenomenon that kept happening to me where I would be in a line probably at some grocery store or something and you know I'd have the baby in one arm and the toddler like grabbing the lollipops and the 5-year-old begging for the thing and they're all yelling in the line and I want to like just melt into the floor and inevitably some well I would have described her back then as an older woman. Okay.

45:13 So, someone our age, a woman our age, a middle-aged woman who at the time I was like, "This person is, you know, elderly."

45:21 Um, would come over to me and like have this soft look on her face. The the face did not match the situation as if there was not carnage around. And her face would get really soft and she would say, "Oh, honey, it goes by so fast. Enjoy every moment. And I would always think this one, you want me to enjoy this moment right now?

45:48 And I would always and I and I would get a little annoyed about it because I felt like perhaps you're not reading the room. Like perhaps

45:56 perhaps um what's not needed in this moment is an extra layer of shame that not only should I not be just surviving this moment, but I should actually be cherishing this [ __ ] moment. Like I just couldn't understand what was being required of me by the older elderly women who were probably 10 years younger than me. Now, okay.

46:19 Yeah. Now, from where I sit now, I feel I feel so jealous of those women in the grocery lines.

46:33 Really? Yeah. But I but I don't want to be them for like a long period of time. And I definitely don't want their kids because their kids look a mess. What I would give for just one, this is what I think about sometimes. I don't want more babies ever. I don't want anyone else's babies. I don't want more babies. But I would, if I could have one wish or time travel, I would love to just be like, "Okay, just give me like one day when they were like five and two and zero, like

47:08 just like snuggle them." Anyway, so I think I feel both ways. Like I feel when I see those women in line dripping with their babies wanting to melt, I feel I can remember how hard that was. I can I would never actually go up to them and say, "Enjoy every moment." Like what I would do is maybe be like, "Can I hold that baby while you look for your change in your purse?" You know, like I might want to step in and help,

47:46 but I also feel like parenting has been this situation where it feels like a roller coaster. the first I want to say like eight years. It's just you know when you're on a roller coaster and it's like that first big hill and you're just it's like you're going up the and so effing slow like you're never going to get to the top and all it's doing is building anticipation and terror and that is how early parenting feels like. It's just I mean I remember being so exhausted and feeling like looking at at Chase on the floor when he was like 10 months and then looking at the clock and it was like 8:30 in the morning.

48:35 I was like, "Oh my god, we have 17 more hours. It's it's been six years since we woke up." Like that.

48:43 And then this thing happens. It's like there's a crest for me. I think it was like right around when they were eight or nine. And all I can tell you is now it feels like I blinked. This ride took off and now we're like in that part at the end and Abby and I and Craig are still in our seats like trying to figure out what just happened and we're just our kids have gotten out of the car and they're just walking away and all we can see is their backs and we're just like wait what happened? It's like you also have this idea that you're gonna like have enough time to like fix some things.

49:24 There'll be time for edits, right? We're gonna get another pass at this. I always have this feeling that I'm just about to figure it out that like

49:33 I am who I am today, but like I'm about to like nail this and and for sure I'm gonna nail it before it's over. And then they're walking away and you're like, "Wait, but I thought there would be more time to like get some things right." And then you're kind of just left with your people on the little cart just staring at each other. I mean, Craig and Abby and I just stared at each other just like wideeyed just like, "Is this it? Did we do it? Is what do we do now?" We're just like in the cart staring at each other, watching them walk away, hoping that it was enough and wondering what the hell we're supposed to do now.

50:18 Yeah, definitely wondering what the hell we're supposed to do now is creeping in. I think that

50:25 I have I have a different feeling about it in that I also feel equally as excited as I do sad. I feel equally as excited because my my hope is that I live so long that I get to know who they be continue to become

50:46 and like their adulthoodness and their and what they like struggle through and what they are trying to like I'm curious as to like what what will happen with them, you know, like that is almost equally as exciting as it is to think about like what now we we are walking away from in a way. Um, and I I I understand it's just nostalgia, you know? It's like this idea of how can I replicate how can I hold on to how can I like this the world is ever moving and we it doesn't stop and like how can I hold on to a moment and then also make them also hold on to the moment

51:36 because think about us I don't have any like um I have like very few memories of my childhood.

51:44 Oh I can't even think about that. Do you know that's why I over send them pictures constantly. I just want it to keep front and center all I've done for them. Let the record show.

51:58 Can you go through the actual goodbye with Tish and what happened? Like walk through the the steps because I was fine.

52:05 I know you were until Emma. Oh god. Emma started crying and holding on to her and that was just I don't want to tell too much of it because it's hers but that was really something. Craig was all teary eyed. Tish was crying. You guys hugging just absolutely crushed me. Um I left her when when she went to preschool finally. She

52:33 after her first gap year, I was kind of hoping she would like she cuz she let me start Dreams preschool in our basement. So I was kind of hoping she was going to like let me start Dreams College in our basement.

52:45 Dreams Middle School. Here we go. Um, it was real though, you guys. We had like kids from the neighborhood at our preschool. We like

52:54 very real. It was very, it was a serious school. Um, oh god, that just reminds me. So, we used to do these crafts every day, you know, and we used to do a lot with glitter. And anyone who's a teacher knows that the glitter is just, oh my god, if once you introduce glitter, it's just going to live with you forever. And Tish, I had I had cleaned out the basement, put her to bed after the preschool. All the kids went home and I had cleaned out all the trays and dumped the glitter in the toilet because that's what you have to do with glitter. You can't just trust me, preschool teachers know. And um at dinner that night, Tish, she was four. This is if this is not tish in a nutshell. She is eating her dinner and she goes, "You guys, today I was pooping.

53:49 Oh my god." And sprinkles came out of my butt. Cuz she thought she pooped, looked in the toilet, saw it filled with glitter, and thought, "Yep, that's about right. Of course I [ __ ] sprinkles." Can't wait to tell them cuz they haven't believed in my fairy powers. Not once. This should close the case.

54:14 I don't think I corrected her. Every little girl should really believe that they should sprinkle.

54:18 I pooped and sprinkles came out my bottom. Yes, I remember that. That was That's what it was. I pooped and sprinkles came out of my bottom. That's what it was. Yeah, I know that because we have it on a mug because my dad makes mugs of all of the kids wildest sayings. Um, so we do have a mug that says, "And then sprinkles came out of my bottom." Anyway, um the day before she actually went to preschool, we read the book that so many of us read our babies before they go to school, which is called The Kissing Hand, which is like about this mama raccoon who sends her baby to school.

54:53 And then she before the baby goes to school, she kisses his hand so that when he misses her, he can put his hand on her on his cheek and feel her love. So with my letter gave her another copy of the kissing hand and before she left before I left I just kissed my hand and oh it was a whole thing.

55:14 Um Oh I didn't know that you didn't tell me that you kissed her hand. E I had to I left cuz am when Emma started crying I had to actually I said I love you. I gave her a hug cuz I was holding it together and I got in the stairwell and she lives on the seventh floor and you weren't allowed to use the elevators. only the people moving in could use the elevators. And so I was in the the stairwell shaft and just balling like

55:42 just crying. And by the time I gave myself seven floors by myself and as soon as I got down to the bottom floor cuz I didn't want Emma to feel

55:50 Yeah. like this was going to be the way that I'm going to like I didn't want her to feel guilty.

55:55 It'll be real fun at home, y'all. Yeah. And so I gave myself seven floors to cry it out. and I got downstairs and I ran down because I needed to give myself a little bit more time before you guys could make your way down. So, I didn't know how your goodbye really went.

56:10 Yeah, that's it you guys. I don't really have a lot else. I just wanted to I just wanted to just talk about it a little bit out of love for not just our kids but for each other and like what we did and what and how hard it is to have a job where your entire

56:32 where success is putting yourself out of that job and where the thing that is required is the letting go of the thing that you love more than anything. It's a freaking hard ask.

56:45 Yeah. Well, it's not exactly all there is because um we have a little surprise for you and um Abby and that is that we have a little

56:59 what video message from Tishi. Shut up. that um what uh that is coming here now that we asked her said we were going to do this um this episode and asked her to send whatever she wanted to send for it. So, this video is filmed by my lovely roommate. Um and the question is, what's something that I want you guys to know about my experience here so far that maybe I haven't told you and I want to tell you?

57:31 Gosh. And I think that I want you to know that every time I think of you and think of home, I really don't get sad anymore because I just am reminded um what I have to fall back on whenever I need to. And I know I will need to. And I think that means that you did something right or everything right. Who knows? But I guess we'll find out as I embark on this new chapter. And I love you guys so much. Bye. Okay. Okay. Can we end now?

58:10 Yes. Okay. Okay. Love you. Bye. We can do hard things is an independent production brought to you by Treat Media. We make art for humans who want to stay human. Forever dog is our production partner and you can follow us at we can do hard things on Instagram and at we can do hard things show on Tik Tok.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "How G’s Surviving Her Baby Leaving"?

Glennon Doyle (Host), Amanda Doyle (Guest), Abby Wambach (Host), Tish (Guest).

What is "How G’s Surviving Her Baby Leaving" about?

The episode explores a parent's emotional journey as they navigate the significant transition of dropping their child off at college, highlighting the complexities of letting go, feelings of existential dread, and the evolution of what can be shared about their children's lives as they grow older. It reflects on the changing nature of the parent-child relationship and the challenges of finding…

What is mentioned in this We Can Do Hard Things episode?

11 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Anne & Andrew Tish, Abby, Queen Emma, The Kissing Hand, Andreas Craig, Chevy Chase. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "How G’s Surviving Her Baby Leaving"?

The episode runs 59 min; the transcript is about 9,274 words in 166 timestamped sections.

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