Transcript

What Psychedelics Taught Glennon

From We Can Do Hard Things · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 12 min · 11,673 words · 229 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "What Psychedelics Taught Glennon", an episode of We Can Do Hard Things published October 14, 2025 (1 h 12 min, about 11,673 words). It mentions 8 people, works and ideas, including Abby Wambach, Shane O'Connor, Untamed, Reedville.

What this episode is about

The content explores the dynamic and humorous interactions among family members, highlighting moments of levity and playful banter as they reflect on personal stories and childhood memories. Key points include a child’s perspective on family dynamics and the lasting impressions of humorous remarks made during significant life events.

Key takeaways

  • Fast-paced banter often reveals profound truths—just ask Chase, who believed oxygen was limited for years.
  • Psychedelics as therapy challenge societal norms—transforming addiction treatment one trippy session at a time.
  • The secret life of childhood beliefs: sometimes, a humorous misunderstanding about air can stick for years.
  • Trust in community is a reciprocal bond—5,000 secrets felt safer than a diary in this family circle.
  • Who knew the journey to self-discovery would involve letting go of rigid thinking and embracing the groove?

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Abby Wambach, Reedville
  2. – 30:00: Policy Genius, Mave
  3. – 50:00: Dose Daily, Untamed
  4. – 1:00:00: Shane O'Connor
  5. – 1:10:00: Shane O'Connor

Notable quotes from "What Psychedelics Taught Glennon"

  • He heard like okay you I think or my mom somebody he tells this story we were sitting in Reedville at Bub and Tisha's house and he thinks it was when you were announcing that Alice was going to be born when you were pregnant.
    about Reedville · at
  • But then s then the boxes a little bit start changing it's a little changing and so I say I think I should tell my wife I'm on drugs right now I just think that I should…
    about Abby Wambach · at
  • Plus, if you have a big dog like mine, you might also be worried about hip and joint health. And Mave has an awesome hip and joint supplement that Sheamus loves. Mave is…
    about Mave · at
  • A year for $1 million in coverage. What I love is that you're not doing this alone. Policy Genius is the country's leading online insurance marketplace with thousands of…
    about Policy Genius · at
  • Right? You know what that just occurred to me as you're talking about those questions? It feels the chapter of Untamed where the necklace is so tight and like it's in all it's…
    about Untamed · at
  • Levels. And 86% of people saw a positive impact on liver enzyme levels after taking dose. New customers can save 35% on your first month of subscription by going to dosedaily.co.
    about Dose Daily · at
  • Shane Connor was like my guide throughout the whole thing. And I have, you two know I have very deep feelings and love for Shenado Connor for a million different reasons, but I am.
    about Shane O'Connor · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Abby Wambach — Person · Co-host / spouse; on-scene support during story · 1 mention · first at
    Appears as Glennon's partner and co-host, describing her perspective during the accidental macrodose and the planned therapeutic journey logistics and safety concerns.
  • Shane O'Connor — Person · Referenced figure (likely mis-transcribed name) · 2 mentions · first at
    Mentioned as a recurring 'guide' figure during Glennon's psychedelic journey; context strongly suggests the intended reference is singer Sinéad O'Connor, but the extracted entity is 'Shane O'Connor.'

Books & papers

  • Untamed — Book · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned in the context of discussing personal growth and overcoming challenges.

Places & events

  • Reedville — Place · Setting · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as a location where a family story took place.

Sponsors

  • Peloton — Company · Sponsor · 4 mentions
    Promoted as a fitness equipment brand with innovative features.
  • Policy Genius — Company · Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at
    Mentioned as a sponsor providing life insurance comparison services.
  • Dose Daily — Product · Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at
    Promoted as a liver health supplement in liquid shot form.
  • Mave — Company · Sponsor · 1 mention · first at
    Advertised as a provider of fresh, ready-to-serve dog food and supplements.

Full transcript with timestamps

Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. And today, Abby can't go that fast. So, as long as you go super super super fast, you can beat her.

Um, I'm sorry. I just need I needed an introduction. Fun. Welcome you guys. I love you.

I love you, too. Thank God for you and your introjection of a little bit of fun.

A little bit of fun. I'm becoming a little bit of fun. Oh, you are no fun. No. Yeah. She said, "Oh, you are." Like it was a news. Like not something that had been Oh, you are.

Hey, you know what? You want to know? I'll try to pay attention. You guys are talking at the same time. You have to wait your turn.

No, it's totally No, listen. It's totally okay because in post they can little They can slow down.

So, we're having fun. This is fun. Hold on. This is fun. Hold on. I I do want to tell you something. You want to know what our oldest child said about you the other day?

What? Well, he always says this, but what? That you're like the funniest person.

Funniest person that he knows. Yeah. Yes. That like that's how he thinks of you. Like Mandy is just always so on the comedy, on the bites or the bits.

I was like, damn, that's a good compliment. And I need you know the other random thing he told us last night is that

what when he was little he heard like okay you I think or my mom somebody he tells this story we were sitting in Reedville at Bub and Tisha's house and he thinks it was when you were announcing that Alice was going to be born when you were pregnant.

Okay. And mom said something at the table. Oh, she went cuz she figured out what was going on. And Bubba goes, "Just be careful. Don't take up all the air in the room." And Chase for his whole life until he was old enough to know better, thought that there was a limited amount of oxygen and that we that Bubba had just said the quiet part out loud and that we all knew that one day we wouldn't have enough oxygen and he was just biting his breaths. That's what he felt secretly believed for like years.

Well, it's true. It is true. There's not going to be enough oxygen. It is true. We didn't have the heart to tell him that last night.

So, we weren't preparing him for life. Yeah, you're right. [ __ ] He was right. Okay. Um

I can't believe we're doing this episode. Me [ __ ] neither. Because I told myself two years ago when I did psychedelic drugs as a therapeutic,

there it is, folks. method that I would never tell these stories publicly just because I just could not be another white lady from LA whose life was changed by psychedelics. So to the point where

even in our last book and we can do hard things you will see sections where I'm like and then I had a thought and then I had this vision

and they are from trips but I just couldn't dream myself to be therapeutic journeys

therapeutic journeys however I actually did tell the stories of my psychedelic experiences on poor because I was like, "Oh, this is just our family meeting. Like, nobody will." So, I just asked everybody.

It's just a small group of our closest friends. This is like a kind of finite number of of we can do hard

10 cities of tens of thousands of people. And so, it's just intimate. But, but okay. What I will say though about our community is that over the last 20 years, because we've been doing versions of these town halls or tours for 20 years where we gather everybody in their communities and we just sit and talk for hours, I have said amazingly private things in those rooms over the years. And I have said to thousands of people, "Y'all, this is going to stay between us." And it does.

How the hell does that work? Because our community is freaking amazing. like really we really trust them and they actually listen to private stuff. It's cool.

I know. I'm like this is between us and it's 5,000 people and they're like gotcha.

Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. So that's what happened with the psychedelic story. But I just felt like

the rest of the pod squad needed to know to hear this too. Needed to know. I'm so excited. I'm so excited that you're telling them.

So let me set the stage. this last round of recovery which everyone knows about who who was a part of this community where I got the anorexia diagnosis a couple years ago and then went into intensive treatment. Okay. There were people experts doctors throughout the process who kept saying to me we really think that you should try psychedelics as part of your therapy as part of your treatment. I was hellbent against it because mostly because I didn't understand the whole genre and because you're an addict who has

figured out that maybe drugs don't work with you. Exactly. But that's why I didn't but that is related to not understanding. I didn't understand at the time that this is actually a method, psychedelics are actually a method of treating addiction

and treating um and so if you've never I'm going to give a a poor a poor explanation that won't be exactly right. Don't at me. just I'm just going to try to tell you my version of why psychedelics are are so effective and prescribed often to people with anorexia or other thinking diseases which in some ways that's not exactly the right words but anorexia is a thinking disease. It's that

um when it's about rigid thinking it's about not being able to see outside of one tiny neuropathway. It's about every time there's a trigger, every time I get scared about the world or the family or anything, I go to okay, I can I know how to keep myself safe. I know and I go to food. It is a a a disorder of rigid thinking. And so if you think about like a mountain where a bunch of skiers are going down, okay, and there are pathways um kind of smooshed into the snow.

Ski slopes. ski is that okay so there's slopes I thought the slope was the whole mountain

it is but you're you're you're grooving you're putting ski grooves and yes okay so there's like ski paths

where tracks you wouldn't you the you're you put your skis and you're going to naturally go down a path because it's well wororn okay you're not going to like forge your way through a new fresh snow because that doesn't make any sense that it's like the least resistance is the path that's already created and that's what your brain does. Okay. A neuropathway is basically the the road most traveled, the the thought that you've gone to the most times over and over again until it feels and looks like and actually is experienced as the only path possible.

You don't even look up enough or know that there's fresh snow everywhere that you could actually go a different way with your thoughts and create an entirely new path, entirely new experience. And so what um one thing that psychedelics do and why they're prescribed to rigid thinkers is because it's a way to create new paths that suddenly the fresh snow is everywhere and you can like somehow find new ways to think, new different ways to get down the mountain that might be less destructive.

You're like skiing in powder is what they call it. Meaning like you're laying down new tracks,

right? Laying down new. And so this is the science of neuroplasticity. The idea that your brain is adaptable and you can think new things and your brain is still kind of able to adapt. But if we don't do new things, we don't unlock that adaptability.

Right? So even though these things have been presented to me as actual t I mean the this the success rate for eating disorder recovery is not good. This element adding this element does seem to increase the possibility of recovery. Mhm.

Meaning recovery, meaning new ways to think, new ways to survive, new ways to deal with stress that don't um all relate to body control. Okay. I said no for a very long time and then had a plateau where I couldn't figure out how to move forward and got pretty hopeless and finally said, "Okay, I will try your situation."

Mhm. Um my backstory is that I've done every drug in the world. Like I'm not there's not a lot I haven't done. I did a lot of shrooms in college. Let's just say it wasn't like a therapeutic. Okay. recreational.

Yeah. Just because it was self-medicating doesn't mean it's therapeutic, right? So, it was hard for me to imagine that in a different setting

with a different intention. Okay. One doctor that I was working with said to me one day, "Okay, we're great. This is great. You're going to try it." Now, one challenge with you doing a journey. So a journey is when a doctor or therapist or someone with credentials um prescribes a psychedelic experience for you and then there is a lot of leadup preparation that has to do with identifying intentions, wishes, questions, uh goals. A lot of therapy goes in beforehand. Then there is the actual journey. Then there's a lot of integration post meetings where you talk about what you experienced and how it might apply to your life and how you might integrate it into your thinking in your life to start a fresh.

Okay. So basically what you're saying is that you don't just show up one day and you sit with a doctor and they give you some drugs and you do drugs with somebody watching.

That wasn't my experience. What you are saying that you is your experience is that it was weeks of prep, months of prep, talking to this therapist who was going to be facilitating the journey, getting you to the journey, taking you through the journey, and then also facilitating integrations postjourney.

Right? Got it. So, the first thing the therapist says is, and I'm going to be paraphrasing everything. I'm a storyteller, not a doctor. Okay? Okay. So, just don't correct me

if it's not clear so far. Right. So, the the therapist says there are some challenges. We're going to get through them together. One of the challenges is that we have to find out if the psychedelics are going to break through your anti-depressant because you have been on anti-depressants since you were a toddler. And

that was paraphrased. So in I'm not on them anymore, but at the time I was on them that can create a basically you're just like one big human lexapro. So we have to see if this is going to be able to break through enough

the barrier of that to have an experience. I say okay can I ask you a question about that? Does that mean are are SSRIs always a block to or maybe you don't know but it the chemically they like don't allow the psychedelics to do their thing

sometimes and that's what she told me that sometimes SSRI will block the the psychedelics from doing their thing. So there needs to be some sort of experiment beforehand to see okay if it's going to break through. Right.

So she says to me what we're going to do is I am going to you're going to take a micro dose

of the psychedelics just to see if we have any reaction. And she said what that will feel like is I will give you some micro doses and you will take them and basically you will feel nothing. Like if if we're really lucky, you might feel like some tingling in your toes or something and then we'll know but that that this is going to work. However, don't

don't worry because this is not going to be like consciousness altering. You're you're going to be absolutely fine. You might feel some sensation,

right? So I say, "Okay." So I say, "Well, how am I going to get these micro do things?" And she says, "You have to come and pick them up." And I say, "Well, I'm not going to do that. That sounds scary because I that is drugs and this sounds very shady and scary. So I send Abby

to pick up to do the drug deal. Okay. And she comes back. You go and do it and it was fine.

It was totally fine. Totally normal. Right. She comes back with two envelopes. Okay. And she puts them in my top underwear drawer. No.

Were they envelopes or the ziplockc? I think they were envelopes. Weren't they little envelopes?

I don't know. I I can't remember. Okay. Well, one of them said 0.1 and one of them said 2. Okay. And my job was to one morning over the next week take 2. Then an hour later take a 0.1 and see if my toes tingle at some point that day. That was my job.

Yeah. Okay. Great. So I wake up one morning. We have a full day of meetings and I actually forgot to tell Abby that that I was going to try it that day which I probably should have in retrospect. However, I was assured that nothing dramatic was going to happen. Okay.

Right. I don't tell her every time my toes are tingling. That's fine. Yeah. But hold on a second. This was a big oversight.

I agree now. I I could in retrospect it was a big oversight. It wasn't even the biggest oversight.

I mean, it's so weird because we don't we tell each other everything. I know. It's such a weird thing.

I think that I felt still a little bit of shame to be doing drugs. I think I felt like nervous about it.

But you made me go get a pick. I'm used to I'm an addict. I'm used to hiding drugs. Okay. So, rule number one of doing drugs.

Hide your talk about doing drugs. Exactly. So, I wake up one morning, take a shower, take two. Are are you sure you were supposed to take point two or were you supposed to two first?

Okay. Okay. Okay. Take point two. We have a full docket of meetings that day. Zoom zoom zooming. Zoom zoom zoom zooms. Okay. So Abby and I sit down at our little table in the corner in the family room and we get on our first meeting and like which is insane now in retrospect. Sorry.

No, it's okay. So like 20 minutes into the meeting I'm like what is happen? Like I feel like all these boxes are kind of moving and people look weird, but I am very dramatic and I have I can be psychosmatic as [ __ ] Like I am like no give me any placebo pill and I will give you your result. Like I am right. Right. My mind very powerful. So

you're like look it worked. Yeah. No. So I was like shut up Glennon. Like I'm talking to myself. I'm like you're not you're supposed to only feel your toes tickle. this is not

but then s then then the boxes a little bit start changing it's a little changing and so I say I think I should tell my wife I'm on drugs right now I just think that I should mention this so I mute and I say um I did the micro dose thing this morning and I just I'm I'm feeling a little bit weird but I don't think it's anything I think I'm just going to carry on I'm going to keep the protocol I'm going to go take my 0.1 because it's been an hour and

no hold Hold on just a second. I would like the pod squad to really think about what it might feel like to be to work with your spouse,

to be on work Zoom meetings talking about business and things and that and this episode, what are we going to do here? How do you know? And then your wife mutes the the call and says, "So, I did those micro doses this that that micro dose this morning

and I'm kind of feeling something. I think it's probably fine. What would you do under those circumstances?"

Well, what you did, I said, "I'm going to go take my my booster, my 0.1, and I started walking away very carefully." I was walking very carefully and I believed I was walking away. I think I was. And I was because the next thing I knew I was in my bedroom downstairs and Abby was right behind me. So clearly she had stopped the meeting and said, "I'm

I got to go you guys off." Right. Yeah. So she's behind me. The next thing I know, Pod Squad, I am I have the 0.1 envelope and I've poured all the 0.1 in my hand

and I'm I have my water and I'm getting ready to pop all the eight pills that are in my hand into my mouth. And Abby lunges towards me, shoves my hand down so that all the pills fly over the room. And this is a strange occurrence. in the midst of an hour. That has been a very strange occurrence so far. I'm I'm confused about what's going on and why my wife has just scattered my micro dose boost about the room that you were specifically told to take that

one.1. So then my wife looks at me and she goes, "Honey, show me the point 2 envelope right now. Show me the envelope." Mhm.

Mhm. So, of course, I show her the empty envelope, which had eight pills in it, but is now empty

because Pod Squad, I don't know if you're with me right now, but I thought that the 2 meant that all these pills together equal 0.2. I thought that the envelope

was one dose of 02 and so I took all eight pills before the meeting and now I'm tripping balls.

I'm just like you guys. Okay, those that are listening, she kind of like walks kind of she she she nonchalantly says, "I think that, you know, I took the micro dose and I'm going to I have to take another booster, so I'm going to go down." And I was like, "This doesn't sound right.

Something doesn't sound right." So, I walk downstairs, she's got all of these pills ready to take them. And I was like, "What is that? What are you doing?"

She's like, "I'm doing the booster." And just like Glennon said, I just like how many pills I was just thinking how many pills were in the point 2? How many pills were in her hand? It is a lot to take eight pills of something.

Yeah, I really did write commit to that. Right. So, what is what is 2* 8? It's a lot is what it is. And so, now she's talking to me about math and how could I think 2 is eight pills? And it she keeps saying at any point when you were taking all of those pills did your mind say this doesn't feel right and she's talking about math and all I can think of is that my wife talking is this my life? Is this my beautiful wife?

Is this my beautiful home? What is happening? And so the next thing I know now I I kind of come to and I'm laying on the bathroom floor. I remember hysterically laughing on the bathroom floor while she tried to explain to me what I had done. I do remember a flash of that.

That was one of the funniest moments of my life. But you were scared, too. I do remember thinking she's scared and that's scaring me. Your face looked a little scared.

I was cons I was concerned. Not because I thought you were going to die or anything by any means,

because what I was concerned was with was that the whole point of you micro doing was to make sure that these new chemicals that you would one day in the week ahead be adding something more into the brain chemistry. Right. And so with with your SSRI and I just wanted to make sure we weren't going to have any adverse reaction.

Right. Exactly. So I didn't think you were going to die. I just thought maybe you'd feel very upset or or not good,

right? Feel very She's not qualified to go on a journey is what she's saying. She's I am not I am illprepared for a journey at this point. So So I in fairness to you 2

I in fairness to you something is labeled 2. You could think this cumulatively is 2.

Hold on. Let me do the math on that. It didn't say just it didn't say but it didn't say 28 of each.

No, it didn't. It just said 2. So what are we pharmacologists? What am I? I don't think so.

So then that would be 0025 per pill. Does that make sense? Well, anyway, we don't know things. We're new to this. I don't I don't I don't think I should have to do math in my drugs. Like I just I don't I never had to do that. Okay, that wasn't a part of the experience before this moment. Okay, so math is something separate that is shouldn't be interjected into this.

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Anyway, the next thing I remember is Abby has walked me up the stairs. So she put me out on this little deck that we have on the front of our house. It's like on the street. We live in very very very close to our neighbor. So it's kind of like two feet from our neighbors. She sits me in the corner and she says, "I'm in timeout.

In a timeout. I'm in timeout." And she says, "Stay here." Yeah. Okay. And I just want to be clear. I want the folks who are listening to understand my thought process during this time.

Right. I have also experience with psychedelics in my lifetime. um as a recreational shroom doer

and being put into an enclosed space where nobody's watching you not is not something that I felt very comfortable with. So I couldn't I needed to call the doctor. I needed to call her therapist.

You did need to do that. And so I needed to also be able to have eyes on Glennon while I was talking to her therapist. So this was the only see-through door, glass door. M

so I put her on the patio. It's enclosed. Totally safe. She's sitting there to think about what she had done.

Yes. Cons continue. I just needed people to understand like why would you put her on the patio? It's the only place in our house that has a glass door.

So I remember thinking this is nice to be in the fresh air. Then I remember staring at my neighbor's roof. That doesn't even make a lot of sense. I don't know how. Actually, as I say this out loud, I don't know if I was staring at neighbor's roof cuz that feels like it should have been higher than where I was. But I do remember staring at my neighbor's roof. And then I remember my neighbor's roof was paisley and rolling rolling paisley rolling hills of paisley. And I remember thinking that's not exactly right. Um, and then I remember

I would have remembered that. Yeah. And then I remember hearing as if I had supersonic hearing because Abby was all the way on the other side of the kitchen saying talking to the doctor and sounding like it was going to be okay. And then I remember thinking, "Thank God almighty the children are at Craig's."

I just thought that I don't know what's about to happen to me right now, but I know it shouldn't involve children. That's all I know. And so, thank God for that. Now, Pod Squad, I'm sitting there enjoying confusedly the paisley roof vistas.

The next thing I know, I turn to my right and Tish is sitting next to me. Mhm. Okay. Now, I'm not even sure at first that Tish is actually sitting next to me.

It takes me a minute to be like, "Are you just more paisley or is this for real? Because this can't be happening."

Tish walks in. How did she get there? How How has it been 6 hours? Has it been 1 hour?

Who am I? Who is she? Where am I? How did she get there? It's a good question. Um I don't know. She also kind of just appeared out of nowhere. She just walked upstairs, walked saw you outside and and sat down right next to you. And I'm inside talking to the doctor about how you're tripping because you you didn't micro dose, you macro do.

I macroed. And um I don't I am now like, "Oh, [ __ ] I got to get out there cuz I

I got to get out there." Because I didn't want Tisha be scared and feel like sure

she's witnessing her mom. This was supposed to be done in private. That's why, you know, next time we talk about this kind of stuff before we do it.

Yeah. Um, so that's the backstory there. So Amanda, she sits next to me and I look at her and now I'm understanding that she is real and this is really happening.

She has a laptop in her lap. She says the following to me. Mom, can you edit my college essays? and she picks up her laptop and she puts it in my lap. I That's worse than math. I've now been asked to do math and and now I'm being asked to do literature

in the first 20 minutes of my trip. I I don't remember how I don't remember what computers are or like what paragraphs are or what colleges or what

but I do words words words and I can't find them. I I I it's it's it's making the words are moving. Everything's moving. But I do remember in my smart little brain something which is that often times I think when I'm remembering back to my previous life before I was on so many drugs. I do think I remember from that realm that when people are reading something or experiencing something that people they love have made that they make noises.

Oh my god. Remember this that they go. So yes. So I just sit there next to Tish with the little computer open in my lap and I do not look at her. No, I just look at this the white thing with the black things in front of me and I just go "Oh." Oh. And I just do that for a little while.

I think I'm pulling it off. I don't see her. I mean, she doesn't really pay attention to me anyway. I feel like

it's going all right. Mhm. Right. It's going all right. It's going pretty good. And as long as I don't have to say anything specific about what's happening, right? Don't don't change any punctuation or anything.

Oh. So, the next thing I know, Abby comes, she swoops Tish away and the computer that's on my lap, and then she puts me in a room.

You just said to Tish, though, just keep going. Is that what I said? Yeah, you said keep going. Just keep going.

Good advice for a writer. That was smart of you. You're on the right track. Keep going.

Keep going. And then I think somehow you made Tish leave the house, right? Some Oh,

you got her out. You got her out. You got me safe. Um Well, I think that I was like, "What are you up to today?" And she's like, "Oh, I got to go do this thing." And I was like, "Awesome. That's great." So then I

awesome. Do it now, please. Yeah. Then I coraled coraled you in the bedroom. Right. Well, the best part of this is that when you told this story for the first time on stage, we didn't know you were going to tell it. And Tish had just opened the show. Yeah.

For us and was sitting in the audience and I was watching her face watch you tell the story and it was so amazing. And then when she came backstage for the first time after the show, she was like, "You were high when you edited my college essay." It was so funny.

I know. And it's like we forgot that she was there or something like that. Exactly. Thank god she still got into a college. Anyway,

I know. Um so the good news was that it did in fact break through. Okay. Indeed.

Indeed it broke through. So that experiment while not flawless was complete and we could move forward

with the journey. Okay. I recovered from that. It was a lost day. A lot happened. I watched friends for a long time because I thought this is something I can understand. And I couldn't understand it. I couldn't understand friends. That's another story.

That was a difficult time. That I was like, why is Joey like that? Like what? Wh Why is Monica We couldn't stop.

I was like, "Is this a play?" I kept saying, "Is this a play?" Anyway, anyway, I mean, if you all knew how much we This family has watched Friends over the years, it's like Tisha's go-to. We've watched it five iterations.

Yeah. It's a comfort show. So for her not to understand friends understand it was a difficult time for me.

I still feel confused about it. Anyway, um it broke through. So now what we have to do

is plan the actual journey day because that wasn't enough of a journey because I had no guidance.

So we decided on the journey day that was going to be like a couple weeks later or something, right?

Yeah. And so we have it planned now like we are clear that the kids we have made low so many uh really sketchy things that we've said that make it clear that no children will be allowed in the house for 24 hours but it was okay. They were at Craigslist. Now

some people do this at a at a place like they go to their therapist's office. I felt like since I'm really only comfortable in my house, like to an nth degree, that it's probably best for me. My favorite journeys are ones that I take from my living room always. So, I thought we'll stick with that.

Right. Right. So, I needed to We made all kinds of arrangements and Abby had a speaking event the day before, so she was going to make sure she was home the night before she could handle the dogs and all the things. It was all arranged.

Yeah. I just you needed somebody else to help manage the surrounding area. Exactly. So, it's supposed to be like Friday. Okay. Aby's coming home Thursday night. So, the therapist is supposed to be there at 8:00 a.m. Friday something. We'd be good. So, on Thursday morning at 7 a.m. when the children are still here, the dogs are still everywhere, Abby is still out of town, I get a text from my therapist that says, "So excited. Today's the day. I'm going to be there in an hour." So, I have now once again [ __ ] this up. I I really planned the entire life. I did such good organizing just around the wrong thing, which is the theme of my life. I I tried so hard and really nailed it for the wrong situation entirely. So now

you're so prepared for something that wasn't happening that way. Exactly. Yes. It's like one of my favorite quotes is that adulthood is crossing both ways before No, looking both ways before crossing the street and then getting hit by an airplane. That's how I Yeah. I constantly feel. I did the thing. I looked both ways. It just I didn't. So I think this is not ideal. My wife's not here. The dogs are here. The kids are whatever. So, somehow I figure out the kids. I call Abby. She's like, "Holy [ __ ] Okay, we're going to make this work. We're going to make this happen.

You're going to be okay. I'm going to get on an earlier flight, but you're going to be okay." And walks me through it. now because I had like a few jobs to do before the therapist came for the journey and I had planned the day Thursday to do those things. So now I had to do them very very quickly. Okay.

Um some of those which I actually think in retrospect that all of this happened the way it was supposed to happen.

Of course it did because I get so anxious in preparation for things that I might have worked myself up into a nauseous tizzy by the next day. I really think that's possible. For an example, I have to like surprise you. We're going to the dentist right now.

That's right. She just picks me up. For an example, she says, "We're going to lunch and then we go to the dentist." That is actually a tip that Craig passed down to her in the owner's manual that was moved from from Craig to Abby.

No, don't let her know. Just wait. So, wait. The work that you're supposed to do, were those jobs for work or were they jobs in preparation for the journey?

Okay. So, they were things such as, and these were just mine. Other people might have different experiences. I was supposed to come up with three intentions can be in the form of a question that

was tied to my therapy and to my recovery that were something that that you would that I would want to be explored and answered in this journey that I thought I and my therapist thought would be helpful for my recovery if some new light was shed on that particular question.

So, I was supposed to come up with three of those questions and then some little things that would comfort me um during the journey and then set up a little space.

Yeah. Like a pictures, an altar, um things that you want to be looking at during the the journey,

right? You know what that just occurred to me as you're talking about those questions? It feels like, you know, the chapter of Untamed where the necklace is so tight and like it's in all it's knots is the chapter and like it's all so tight that I feel like another analogy,

the the ski slope one, but another one is that like when you just have a thing that you just can't undo and you just can't work with it, it's like this is just this journey stuff is supposed to just loosen it a little bit so you can get started. Like you still have to do the work. You still have to unnot it, but it has that first loosening where you could actually start the work.

That feels exactly that to me that's a little even better than the ski slope. That that that is how it feels.

Do you want to know my metaphor for it? Please. So the way that I think about psychedelics is like for example, we have lights that are shining on us right now. To me, what psychedelics are is that they actually explore all this unexplored space. It's like turning the lights on in places that you didn't know existed. Mhm.

And so creating more expansiveness, more understanding, showing that there are maybe like maybe the ski slope, maybe like the lights are only you're only seeing like the specific slope that you've been going down, but showing that there is a a broader mountain or even a broader world.

That's good. So it's like the it's like illuminating more space. I love that. That's right. That's right. So, you know, for example, one of the questions that I went in with, which seems silly, but actually was really important to me at the time and tied to everything was, why am I so scared?

Mhm. Like, why am I so scared? Like, what? And that encompass encompassed a lot of things. Of course, it meant like why do I have all this anxiety? like what what um what hap why is my body like this? Why is my mind like this? Why am I um hypervigilant? Why do I experience life so differently than it seems like a lot of other people do, right? And I that was like a question that was kind of at the center of of everything. Mhm.

And then I had a couple other questions, but I'm just going to focus on that one for the purpose of this story. Okay. Yeah.

So, so what happens is that the therapist comes. I have my questions written out. I have my little thing which is just like some flowers and I have a picture of my sister and me and Abby and me and then the kids in front of me. Um, and then I lay down. In my particular case, I took MDMA and then waited an hour, nothing. I didn't feel anything from that. And then I took the a I drank a mug of tea, which was the psychedelics.

Suicide. Yeah. Right. Um, now what I will explain is that at first I was like nothing. I don't feel anything. And then I was like, oh [ __ ] Okay. I had a feeling of oh [ __ ] And I don't know how I transitioned to this situation, but I was laying on the couch and I had like she had given me a mask thing and the next thing I knew I was I guess from the outside I looked like I was just laying there with a mask on. Okay. I think how it appeared was I was laying there with an eye mask on. But what really happened was what felt like it was happening to me was that my I was my consciousness was that I was in a very strange scary dark world that I couldn't figure out where I was or what it was and it felt like kind of dragony. And

you also had headphones on. Oh, I had headphones on. Right. which had some music in it which was all a part of this

strange scary and so for a long time I just was frozen and very scared. I did not think of anything else to do but to just lay there and be frozen and paralyzed and scared. So that's what I did for a very long time. It turns out like a couple hours.

Okay. Were you aware that you were laying there having believing that you were in a strange realm or did you believe you were in a strange realm?

I believed that I was in a strange realm. That that is my retrospective understanding of what was happening. Otherwise, why would I have just stood there? I would have taken off the mask.

That was my first question. The door wasn't even locked. The door wasn't even locked. It felt like it was

It felt like I was in this scary scary realm. I was drenched with sweat. Two hours in, I finally say.

I think it's a very interesting parallel to life for me is like not asking like just being like I'll just be terrified and alone for a long time even though there's someone sitting there who I'm paying to help me.

Yeah. I guess this is my lock in life. So I don't though. I sit there for hours.

The kind of uncomfort that this woman endures before she realizes that she can fix it.

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So finally I do apparently say out loud, "I'm really scared." I just say, "I'm really scared because I'm still in this realm with the dragons and the darkness and I don't understand why I'm there or how I'm supposed to get out." I hear the therapist from some other realm, which is still in my living room,

say, "Okay, why don't you ask the medicine why you're so scared? Now it's getting [ __ ] weird because that was my intention and now we're and I and I'm asking the medicine. What the hell does that mean?

Okay, I guess I'll ask the medicine. I don't know who I am to talk cuz I'm in a realm with dragons and darkness. So when in Rome so I just say medicine why am I so scared.

Oh okay. Now is when I try to explain something that's really hard to explain to the pod squad in a way that I feel like you will understand even if I don't say all the exact words. M okay. The next thing I know, right after I've said medicine, why am I so scared? I am no longer in the dark dragon realm. I am sitting on the floor in a cold basement. I'm my age now. I'm an adult. You, Amanda, are sitting down there with me. And there is a child in the middle of us.

Oh, Amanda's her her current age. Amanda's your a grown-up. I'm a grown up. Amanda's

You're both grown-ups. Okay. Yeah. But in Oh, we're both grown-ups in the basement with a child. We're both in the grown We're both grown-ups. Oursel versions of ourselves right now,

but we're sitting in a cold, dark basement, and there's a child between us. Okay, without getting into any specifics, what I want you to know is that the child that was sitting between us is a relative of ours. And what we were experiencing with this child, the child was very scared. The child was like holding the child's self and was scared. And we were comforting this child. This child was um a relative of ours who had suffered abuse as a child. Okay. What we were doing in the basement with this child was waiting for the child's parent to come down the stairs and beat the child.

you and I. When I asked the medicine, "Why am I so scared?" The medicine took me to some moment in time where someone in our family line was waiting to be beaten. And that

God fear in that relative's body that that relative um embodied as a child to deal with the abuse is what was passed on in our lineage. Um because when a person is abused that person's nervous system um talk about needing to be hypervigilant right like that person's becomes a certain way in their body and then that is passed on generation to generation and even if the abuse stops which God bless our family line that physical abuse stopped there is still an anticipatory worry fear in the body that something terrible is about to happen and we must brace ourselves.

That is a family legacy. Why am I so afraid that something terrible is always about to happen? There I am on the floor with a little kid who is absolutely positive that something terrible is about to happen because it is and has learned as a family survival skill that we will brace ourselves. We will be ready. We will be prepared. We will survive that. So

when I explain to you, I don't understand. I don't begin to understand what the hell psychedelics are, what the hell this story is. I don't even know.

But what I'm telling you is I have read 70,000 million gazillion trillion books about this. I could have told you in my brain this. I knew this and I never knew this.

Yeah. Until I was sitting in that. I knew it in my body. Then I knew in my body that this fear is actually not mine. It's not it's not native to me in my spirit. It is a survival technique that is passed on like skills are passed on in families like beauty is passed on in families like legacies are passed on in families. This anticipatory anxiety, readiness, warrior, love warrior, carry on warrior, this armoring up, this rigid fear is a family legacy. That was a survival technique. And uh I don't know how to explain how it changed everything for me. I don't even know even know if changed everything is the right word.

I don't feel like um all I know now is that I have a bodily understanding of where the where the fear is and what it is and what it's from and that I can see it now. Mhm.

I can see and feel the familial armoring up and the fear and the the nervous system and I can have like I think one of the things it does is it really um adds all kinds of compassion

like I have so much I have spent a lot of time being really angry about why didn't things weren't more perfect. Why didn't people get their [ __ ] together? Why didn't this get worked out and that didn't get worked out? And why did And I still feel some of that like that's not but but I feel like this huge compassion around what every generation goes through and what we pass on and what we don't. Um yeah,

I remember um because at a certain point during that day, you get to like when you when when you were on like the the come down, the landing as the therapists like like to call it. um you can call in your people, right, to be there for you so that we can we can walk into um coming off of these drugs into sobriety together. And I just remember when I first got in there, you're not you you're not the kind of person that like is um how do I say this? That is like cliche loveydovey. Mm-

In fact, it makes you feel it makes you get the ick at times. I think when I get to loveydvey, like that kind of vulnerability and like I don't know how to say this in the how would you classify yourself? I should ask.

I know what you mean. Like I'm not like mushy gushy like Yeah, you're not mushy gushy.

I I do. I feel like I am, but it's like once a year. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And you're suspect and distrustful and ick of it. There there is something there, too. I I that is a family thing too where it's like

what are you trying to pull? Yes. Yeah. And if it happens, it's happening very briefly and it's one time a year, right?

Right. And it's like don't get used to that. That was your a lotment for the year.

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And and I walk into this room and she was a puddle. Like a puddle of love. and she was looking at all of the pictures she brought and explained to me how much she loves everybody and how much she loved me and how much she like how much all of it all of it all of it all of it and so I just and I'm not saying that I like that person better but I thought it was very interesting

yeah it is that it could open you like crack you open in a way that your consciousness was like letting you tap into more understanding and love and Do you think that this experience while you're sitting there seeing this younger person and your sister and you and there was like kind of an unlocking in that experience?

Yeah. Because I think the not being mushy and the not talking about love all the time or not being that's just a defense mechanism. That's just like a protection thing because that's that is how I feel.

I know. I feel like a very big love bug on the inside but there's all these like things that block it and I think this is just an unblocker, right? Mhm.

Um and then after that it was lightness and beauty and no more scared was the whole journey. It was like the dark dragon thing turned into this like forest. It felt and and the rest of the the day the rest of the journey was utterly beautiful. And I'll tell you a little bit about it. But what was cool about that for me in retrospect was the idea of like that's what we talk about all the time. It's like first the pain then the rising like go to the fear thing face it there it is and then freedom is how the the journey felt.

So after the the the basement experience, the only way I can describe it is that while Shenado Connor came, um,

one of the notes Yeah. Yeah, in my therapist's thing, I mean, well, my therapist said in her notes that she's never heard anyone in the history of the universe all combined together talk about Shenado Connor as much as I did during my eight hour journey.

Shane Connor was like my guide throughout the whole thing. And I have, you two know I have very deep feelings and love for Shenado Connor for a million different reasons, but I am

slightly obsessed. Um, I have slight jealousy about Chenade. So that was uh interesting. Also, Chenade's whole, you know, so much of her work was about abuse and generational trauma and Irish families and and religious trauma and oppression and all of it. I'm in the forest. It's a new realm. Okay, I am now I've gone through the thing where I figure out why I'm so scared and then now I'm a different version of myself. I'm not an adult. I'm a kid again, which I loved because suddenly I was like a fresh unafraid version of myself. So it was like

it was like now you're going to look at yourself had you not had that fear. Mhm.

Okay. It was a fearless childlike version of me and I was walking through the forest and I was a little kid and I um had a little notebook. Okay, I had a little notebook and I was delightedly writing down all the things that I saw. Just look at the trees, look at the butterflies, oh my god, the cloud. Like just writing down all the things I saw. And then this crazy [ __ ] happened which is my little girl observer herself delighted observer self started to ask why I was writing down what I was writing down what I saw what I heard what I felt what I and then I started to say why why am I here why is this like that and everything would go dark the forest would go When you asked why?

When you asked why and I couldn't figure out why. It kept going off and on and then something in me said I I was in the why place of my brain. I was like stuck in the why. And so there was no more forest and my little girl self was all stressed. And then I suddenly just go out loud because this is written down on the notes. I go, I don't know. The realm of the forest comes back to life. And not only did it come back to light and life, but there were fireworks. There were um flowers exploding. Confetti.

You explained it to me. Yeah. It was like the the words I don't know were magical words that made the entire realm celebrate that this little girl was just back in the I don't know. And so then I go back into the forest. I'm still in the forest. The the the celebration dies down. I'm walking. I'm writing what all these beautiful things. And then I go why darkness. I don't know. Celebration. I can control the realm by staying out of the analytical mind, staying in the awe and the observing mind. And every time I go towards the analyzing or or insisting on understanding, I stop myself and go, I don't know. And the realm goes, we love you. Yes, honey.

Yes. You don't know. Of course, you don't know. Stay in the I don't know. That's really cool. I know. So,

no, you don't. You don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

Anyway, that is I want to do this again because I'd love to tell you because this is about psychedelics and then of course it's not about psychedelics. It's about like

our fears and our heritage and our trauma and our joy and all of it. and um our subconscious, our psyche, our unknown, the different realms, what the hell is this? An exploration. And I think staying curious as to the wonderment of not knowing what the [ __ ] is going on.

Yeah. It was like the realm was like that why is my responsibility. You get back to your little girl joyful. Your job has always been here. Just set just be amazed and write down what what is the Mary Oliver thing. Instructions for a life. Be astonished. Tell about it.

Like that's what the realm was saying to me. Like you're you're always above your pay grade, honey. Like just be astonished and tell about it and let us handle the why. But it's very it's very um it feels like both because I feel like you can only be astonished and tell about it when you can release this kind of cage of fear that you're in. you know, like the the cage of fear keeps you out of awe and into self-preservation. And so I think it's beautiful that it was able to show you that why you're afraid because that is basically like you are afraid for very very good reason and you are afraid biologically and you are afraid because of the way that you were raised. Like I think that it reminds me of the episodes um that we did not only with uh with Galite Atlas with the emotional inheritance. It's like that scientifically, you know, what people who survived um famine even I mean people who survived famine

their descendants have in their bodies biologically effects of famine. like not because of anything that happened gestationally or in pregnancy, but because your actual DNA expression changes because of the trauma that someone experiences. It's like biologically and then and then when you're raised by someone who is legitimately afraid and has based their whole survival on their ability to navigate that fear. It is a difficult thing rendered less difficult by the fact that you don't have to face that particular trauma. Right? that they had to but you are still facing all the fears together like and you are confused because you're looking around and saying I don't there must be something wrong with me because I don't see anything to fear here but we're all so afraid and I know we're supposed to be afraid and I'm raised to be afraid and I I can sense the fear but I don't even know where it

is be it's and and So, not only is our wiring, our actual biological wiring that uh biological inheritance, but the way we're raised to be like, this is how this is what I can pass down to you to help you be safe

from what is a burden, right? And so, we're constantly trying to figure out where it is

and make it make it make sense. And that will make you will be really exhausting and make you feel a little crazy when the whole world is telling you there's nothing to be afraid about, but you're very sure that it is. And

and then so to be able to see that and be like, "Oh, that makes so much sense." And then to also be able to like when you first told me that story, it was devastating to me and also so beautiful because it was it made me feel like the giver that I thought was of the hardest parts of me had actually given their best to give me the best parts of them.

Yeah. and that had suffered a lot and had worked really hard to shield me from the particular inheritance that they had and that they couldn't choose but to pass down part of it

and that I can't choose but to pass down part of mine, but it will be smaller just like it was smaller to me. It will be smaller to my people and then it will be smaller again. And that like that is the generational work is like I'm going to do what I can to make this to protect you as I can and burden you the least that I can. Um and you're putting it into language

just that is such a gift for the next generation. We're not even getting it right necessarily with all this language. We're all just adding stories to things,

but this is an important version of of a story of our family and telling it to the next generation. I you know, my children understand that I'm scared

and they understand that it's not that it's in my body and not necessarily out in the world that it's something that I'm deal need to deal with internally. I don't need them to be as hypervigilant as me and they know the story of why my body's like this.

So, putting language around it for the next generation is a a key that gets them out of that cage, too,

you know. Yeah. So, thanks for listening you guys and um we love you so much. Thanks for being the people that we feel like we can share these complicated, tricky stories with and know that you will hold with love and curiosity and understanding

and keep it just between us. Just keep it between us. And by no way do we do we present ourselves to be medical doctors or know what the [ __ ] we're talking about. Just want to say that this is we don't know.

I think it's pretty [ __ ] clear we have no idea what we're talking about. We just want to be clear. We don't know. We don't know. Bye. We Can Do Hard Things is an independent production podcast brought to you by Treat Media. Treat Media makes art for humans who want to stay human. And you can follow us at we can do hard things on Instagram and we can do hard things show on Tik Tok.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "What Psychedelics Taught Glennon"?

Glennon Doyle (Host), Abby Wambach (Host).

What is "What Psychedelics Taught Glennon" about?

The content explores the dynamic and humorous interactions among family members, highlighting moments of levity and playful banter as they reflect on personal stories and childhood memories. Key points include a child’s perspective on family dynamics and the lasting impressions of humorous remarks made during significant life events.

What is mentioned in this We Can Do Hard Things episode?

8 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Abby Wambach, Shane O'Connor, Untamed, Reedville. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "What Psychedelics Taught Glennon"?

The episode runs 1 h 12 min; the transcript is about 11,673 words in 229 timestamped sections.

More from We Can Do Hard Things

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated February 15, 2026.