IS THERE STILL A FUTURE IN DOOR-TO-DOOR SALES || MAX GANLEY || EPISODE 059

What this episode is about

Max Ganley shares his journey from college to becoming a successful door-to-door salesman in the solar industry, highlighting his rapid rise from sales rep to co-founder of Sunder Energy, which now operates in 45 markets with over 1,500 sales representatives. He emphasizes the importance of prioritizing customer needs over quick commissions to ensure long-term success in sales.

Key takeaways

• Being raised by a self-made millionaire highlights the duality of privilege: advantage in opportunity vs. pressure to succeed.
• In door-to-door sales, timing is everything; starting in '14 meant getting in on the ground floor of solar's rise.
• Chasing commissions might fill your wallet short-term, but building long-term relationships ensures a career, not just a payday.
• No trucks, no warehouses: a lean business model in solar shows that flexibility can beat overhead during turbulent times.
• A quick text response may seem trivial, but it’s a telltale sign of respect for time—an underrated trait of success.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Max Ganley (Guest) · 45 min speaking
• Unknown Host (Host) · 11 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: business, Max Ganley, solar, door to door
2. 5:00 – 10:00: door to door, Arizona, NEM 3.0, Sunder Energy
3. 10:00 – 15:00: Arizona, business, Investment
4. 15:00 – 20:00: Arizona, business, door to door, Sunder Energy
5. 20:00 – 25:00: business, Arizona
6. 25:00 – 30:00: business
7. 30:00 – 35:00: door to door, business, Harvard, Vivant
8. 35:00 – 40:00: door to door, business, Social Media, Mark Cuban
9. 40:00 – 45:00: Investment, Social Media
10. 45:00 – 50:00: Investment, door to door, business
11. 50:00 – 55:00: Investment, Max Ganley, door to door
12. 55:00 – 56:38: Max Ganley, Arizona, Investment, Social Media

Notable quotes from "IS THERE STILL A FUTURE IN DOOR-TO-DOOR SALES || MAX GANLEY || EPISODE 059"

• Sadly, people have looked at the solar industry as a cash grab. So, they're in here just to go and make these big commissions, versus what's best for the customer, their business.

  about solar · at 1:05

• Biggest solar companies as well straight out of Mesa. And so, you know without further ado, I'm going to have Max Ganley in the studio. Thank you.

  about Max Ganley · at 2:09

• Born, and, raised, here., Yeah., Lived, my whole life in Arizona.

  about Arizona · at 3:10

• Were relatively very good the third year that's when they implemented the NEM 3.0 you know and, so, it, it, it, hit, us, real, hard, because I remember getting some guys that were there the commissions went from absolute.

  about NEM 3.0 · at 8:29

• That, you know? And that's principles my father and many of my mentors taught me is like you got to look at it from a business perspective of not just like what's in it right now, but what's in it like now and long term.

  about business · at 10:38

• Maintain that level of consistency especially like in the door to door industry? Harvard did the study of the reference group.

  about Harvard · at 31:13

• Crazy that you mentioned that because unfortunately I think another driving factor for this is social media because there are so many of these gurus that are out there and half…

  about Social Media · at 37:46

• What door to door is for is to be, obsessed, with, this, now, to, then diversify to that. I've only lost money in two deals I've ever done. They're both deals that I never told…

  about Investment · at 45:42

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Max Ganley — Person · Main guest · 4 mentions · first at 2:15
  He shares his 10-year solar/door-to-door career, founding Sunder Energy, and his principles on ethical selling, KPIs, and investing for passive income.
• Mark Cuban — Person · Referenced example · 1 mention · first at 38:32
  Mark Cuban is referenced as an example of a successful person who did door-to-door, reinforcing door-to-door as a training ground for entrepreneurship.
  Come across ever you know would you add on that as well my, dad, did, door, to, door, didn't, Mark Cuban do door, to, door, is, I, think, it's, cool everyone wants to be a business owner door to door is the best way to be learn.
• Patrick Bed — Person · Referenced influencer · 1 mention · first at 2:43
  The host cites Patrick Bed as a source of a principle about successful people responding quickly and valuing time.
  Get a response back from me. So, I appreciate that. But I learned from Patrick Bed he said that from all the successful people that he has learned about is like because…

Companies & orgs

• Sunder Energy — Company · Core organization · 3 mentions · first at 0:56
  Max Ganley's company is discussed as a large, asset-light solar sales platform spanning many markets, emphasizing diversified installers and deal validation.
  Of us, we started our current company Sunder Energy. And it now in today's current state, we span across about 45 markets with over, 1500 sales reps active and stuff. So, it's it's been cool to kind of see the adaption.
• Vivant — Company · Referenced benchmark company · 2 mentions · first at 8:16
  Vivant is referenced as a 'crown jewel' example of door-to-door culture/systems, used to argue that strong platforms outperform going solo.
  The first couple years. All a sudden you saw companies start to kind of create similar to what Vivant and some of the big door to door companies have kind of the culture the…
• Harvard — Company · Referenced authority · 2 mentions · first at 31:15
  Harvard is cited as having studied the 'reference group' concept, supporting the argument that peer groups drive performance and consistency.

Concepts & topics

• solar — Concept · Core topic · 1 mention · first at 4:07
  The episode centers on residential solar sold via door-to-door, including market evolution, batteries, net billing, installer quality, and industry economics.
• door to door — Concept · Core topic · 15 mentions · first at 0:22
  Door-to-door is framed as the primary go-to-market motion for solar and as 'entrepreneurship on training wheels' that builds business skills and discipline.
  So I went to college and then I went and did door to door. And this was back in 1415 when solar was still very, unknown or new. it was kind of newer, so to say, right? And.
• KPIs — Concept · Core framework · 12 mentions
  KPIs are presented as the main differentiator between average and elite reps and as Max Ganley's definition of 'winning' through measurement and process control.
  Successful people... they know their KPIs.
• Investment — Concept · Core supporting topic · 10 mentions · first at 10:33
  Max Ganley emphasizes using solar income to invest into cash-flowing assets, discussing recurring revenue, real estate funds, and learning from mentors.
• business — Concept · Supporting core topic · 26 mentions · first at 0:03
  The conversation repeatedly contrasts short-term commission chasing with long-term business fundamentals: margins, systems, regulation of deals, and customer outcomes.
• Social Media — Concept · Referenced influence · 4 mentions · first at 37:50
  Social media is criticized for amplifying 'guru' culture and superficial status signaling, which Max Ganley contrasts with real investing and recurring revenue.
• NEM 3.0 — Concept · Referenced policy change · 2 mentions · first at 8:33
  It is cited as a major inflection that reduced economics for solar sellers (as described by the host), motivating discussion of market shifts and batteries.

Places & events

• Arizona — Place · Primary market discussed · 14 mentions · first at 3:10
  Arizona is presented as Max Ganley's home market and a case study for selling solar without net metering, emphasizing batteries and ethical system design.
• Canada — Place · Referenced location · 1 mention · first at 3:46
  Canada is mentioned as the country where the host served a mission (Edmonton), used to contrast door-knocking conditions and build rapport.
  Where, where, did, you, serve?, I, didn't, see Edmonton,, Canada.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 I grew up in a really unique situation. My dad's a big entrepreneur. Sold his first business at 38 for 100 million. Has gone on to do a lot of things. And so where I grew up, I've been surrounded by a lot of successful people. My dad said, "Hey, you have to go to school." He actually didn't go to college. He was homeless at 14. Didn't go to college. But he told me, "Hey, you have to go to college and you have to stay in college until you make 100,000. Then I'll let you quit." Cuz I didn't get the chance to go to college. You've got to do it.

0:22 So I went to college and then I went and did door to door. And this was back in 1415 when solar was still very, you know, unknown or new. you know, it was kind of newer, so to say, right? And just started killing it. My first year I made 142,000.

0:34 You, started, in, selling, in, the, Scottsdale area. Was that like your first rodeo? And then did you end up like branching out to other markets as time went by?

0:40 Yeah,, so, my, first, couple, years, I, was just I started just closing deals. Then naturally, I had a lot of friends come and want to do it. Naturally, more people came. And so, as I you know doing this a decade, I went from kind of being a sales rep to a sales manager to then a regional. And then in 2019, a few of us, we started our current company Sunder Energy. And it now in today's current state, we span across about 45 markets with over, you know, 1500 sales reps active and stuff. So, it's it's been cool to kind of see the adaption.

1:05 Sadly, people have looked at the solar industry as a cash grab. So, they're in here just to go and make these big commissions, you know, versus what's best for the customer, their business and those guys are short-lived. I've seen that these guys that chase, well I'm, going to, make, more, per, deal., I, never see them last longer than a year or two. they always try to, you know, they're chasing all the time where I've set my career up where it's like, hey, I've been able to build a foundation and then build off that and that provides more consistency. So, what we've provided is a platform to where you're still part of that whole ecosystem, but you're getting your selfishly best experience to where you're serving your client. So, and it also diversifies our business. We don't have any fixed overhead. We don't own trucks warehouses, branches. We don't have all these big fixed expenses that can go

1:44 take a company down when times get tough. the code to winning insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. Uh today we have an amazing guest. If you are interested in curious in learning about renewable energy, the solar uh if you want to be able to jump in doortodoor, uh if you want to find out a bit more about this specific industry we have a man that's been in this industry for about 10 years in different markets and he's built one of the biggest solar companies as well straight out of Mesa. And so, um, you know without further ado, I'm going to have Max Ganley in the studio. Thank you.

2:19 Welcome, boss. How you doing? Doing, awesome., Thank, you, for, having, me. Awesome, stuff., I, appreciate, that., And I'm glad we got the morning schedule. I know it's very, very crazy. And one of the things I learned uh and I've been taught as well is the fact that you can tell someone's success or someone's um achievements and accomplishments by how quick they respond. If I text you, it doesn't even take more than 2 seconds to get a response back from me. So, I appreciate that. But I I I learned from Patrick Bed he said that from all the successful people that he has learned about is like because everything is so calculated and everything is like they appreciate time so much that they have to get over the task and so like this is listen I get get over the thing on the next task next task not this thing of hanging on so I really appreciate that a lot it made it so smooth and amazing so

3:02 I had to just mention that at the start. You're, you're, welcome., I, uh, I, try, to, do that a lot. So it's a superpower.

3:08 I, love, it., Love, it., Are, you, born, and raised in Mesa? Born, and, raised, here., Yeah., Lived, my whole life in Arizona.

3:14 Guess, what, though?, You, and, I, served, our missions around the exact same time. I served 12:14.

3:19 Oh,, same, year., I, got, home, November, 2014. Yeah., I, was, I, think, May, or, so., That's like it's the same thing as well. 25 months, cuz, when, we, were on, our, missions, we experienced uh Well, I think you just came slightly after the the age change thing.

3:34 Yeah., I, was, when, I, started, I, was, it, was a month after that they switched it all to that new age thing. Okay. So on my mission there was people coming out that were like 2 years younger and all that.

3:44 Where, where, did, you, serve?, I, didn't, see Edmonton,, Canada. Oh, wow. Yeah., Really, cold,, you, know., So, we, we would uh you know door knockocking up there is different. When it was uh - 20 to 30 C

3:55 you, still, had, to, go, out, and, what, there was a trick they taught us where we put our glove on and we'd have a golf ball to knock cuz we couldn't take our hands out of our gloves cuz it was so cold. So that was the secret. So yeah.

4:05 Awesome., I, want, to, just, kind, of, dive into it real quick. um you have experience in 10 years in solar. Solar has been um it was the first time in my my entire life that I had made a a six figure like income as well even though it was like in an area where six figure is not so significant Bay Area one of the most expensive places to live in the United States but um you have 10 years experience in this industry. Can you run us through just a bit of your journey in solar?

4:34 Yeah,, so, you, know, I, grew, up, in, a, really unique situation. My um my dad's a big entrepreneur. Uh sold his first business at 38 for 100 million. Um has gone on to do a lot of things. And so where I grew up, I was I've been surrounded by a lot of successful people.

4:49 Mhm. Um, and, so, obviously, like, we, just, talked about I went on a mission. So when I got home from my mission, I was, you know kind of bred to go be an entrepreneur. Uh my dad said, "Hey, you have to go to school." He he actually didn't go to college. He was homeless at 14. Didn't go to college, but he told me, "Hey, you have to go to college." and you can you have to stay in college until you make 100,000 then I'll let you quit because I didn't get the chance to go to college. You've got to do it. So I went to college and then I went and did door to door and this was back in 1415 when solar was still very you know un unknown or new you know it was kind of newer so to say right and just started killing it. My first year I made 142,000 and that was back when commissions were $1,500 to $2,000. So it was a very different you know time back then. It was like one product one system kind of

5:35 thing. So my dad's like, "Hey, you're allowed to quit." And and what I found joy, in, in in, uh, door, to, door, is, it wasn't my dad calling one of his business partners, you know, saying "Hey, can you give my my son a job? Can you hook him up?" But I found so much in door to door. I was like, I got to go prove what I'm worth, you know? And so I love that because it was like, okay, if I, want, to, go, make, this, or, I, want to, go accomplish this, I can do it. It's not my dad or his business partners or my neighbors giving me a handout. So I just started going out and doing it. Back then, we didn't have the training and the concepts that we had today. I was actually dropped off in Greyhawk up a North Scottdale by by a guy in a an Alexis car and he says, "Hey, good luck.

6:12 Figure it out." kind of thing. So Wow. Just, kind, of, started, my, journey, that way. It was really unique.

6:16 Awesome., Now,, that's, that's, and, that's fascinating. I mean, and you started you started in selling in the Scottdale area. Was that like your first rodeo? And then did you end up like branching out to other markets as time went by? Yeah. So my first couple years I was just I started just closing deals. Then naturally I had a lot of friends come and want to do it. Um naturally more people came and so as I you know doing this a decade I went from kind of being a sales rep to a sales manager to then a regional and then in 2019 a few of us we started our current company Sunder Energy. Um, and it now in today's current state, we span across about 45 markets. Um, with over, you know, 1500 sales reps active and stuff. So, it's it's been cool to kind of see the adaption, but I'm really grateful. I I rely, you know, smart people learn from their mistakes. Brilliant learned from others.

7:05 And, I, think, for, me,, I've, been, really grateful that I have had phenomenal mentors in my life. I give them a lot of credit. It's helped me avoid a lot of mistakes that I've seen people in doortodoor make financially, you know and so many other aspects. I've been able to just go to people that obviously are far smarter and successful than me and hey, what should I do in this scenario and it's helped me kind of stay on a path that's been very successful.

7:25 I, love, that., Love, that, so, much., Um,, what was different back then? I know obviously when I did solar there was a whole um setter closer self Jenner in trying to find your way between there and build a team. So in 2015 or 2014 like around that time what would you say was slightly different compared to like how things are right now structure-wise? You didn't really have all that. It was it was just kind of go eat what you kill. It was all selfgen we call it. You knock close your own doors. Um just kind of go out and make it happen. I will say the market penetration was way less. Not as many people were in the solar game then so to say. Um you know you didn't have the tech we had today. We didn't have the 10 different products.

8:04 Batteries weren't even a thing. So it was very just you know simplified back then.

8:09 But, at, the, same, time, you, didn't, have that. But the industry evolved quickly the first couple years. All a sudden you saw companies start to kind of create similar to what Vivant and some of the big door to door companies have kind of the culture the the competitions the all the systems you need to adapt and stuff cuz solar started to just take off kind of know and one thing I did notice while when we were there the first two years were relatively very very good the third year that's when they implemented the NEM 3.0 you know

8:34 and, so, it, it, it, hit, us, real, hard, because I remember getting some guys that were there um the commissions went from absolute luxury cuz I mean one of my closest like one of my biggest deals the year before was a good like over 20,000 was like a an Asian woman by Cpatino literally like uh same street as like the Apple headquarters she just like I want like she had like 54 panels even I think more than that filled up the entire roof so like stuff like that which was a selfgen was like something so rewarding and then like name 3.0 was like um a way where it was just it it pretty much was not the best experience. Did Arizona implement the same thing?

9:14 We, haven't, had, net, metering, since, 2017. Okay., So,, we've, kind, of, been, Arizona, is a tried andrue like brute of a market you you know and sadly it's very unfortunate. I'd say majority of people don't educate themselves enough of how to sell correctly in Arizona. M

9:29 we, come, across, a, lot, of, deals, like, now kind of in Arizona. I'd say 90% you need to be doing batteries the last like 2 years. It's sad to see the amount of sales companies and installers that are allowing jobs to be installed without a battery

9:44 because, the, buyback, now, is, like, around 67 cents. So if you do 100% of your home with solar well you're actually not getting 100% of the value because all that excess is only being bought at 6 cents. It's not a one for one and and every year the buyback goes down and down. And so you kind of need a battery. And so yeah, it's changed. And I think a strength to my company and myself is we've always been willing to choose doing business the right way versus the wrong way. And even if that makes less money or we lose out on certain groups that don't want to come work with us just because they're all about how many deals I can sell, not how we can do it right. And I think that's what has led to my personal sex. I'm near and close about 900 personal installs in my career.

10:22 Wow. So, I, went, many, years, doing, over, 100, plus installs. And so I learned it's like man, it's not what you make per deal it's what you make per year. And if you can maximize referrals and doing good business, you're going to get a way better return on your investment than just slamming in that one deal because I'm going to make a little bit more on that, you know? And that's principles my father and many of my mentors taught me is like you got to look at it from a business perspective of not just like what's in it right now, but what's in it like now and long term.

10:48 And, yeah,, and, I, couldn't, agree, more, when when I was also doing it. And I remember there was a time like Arizona always was like number one in the market. Um and it it like it had like the most revenue. It it just had like the teams that were successful. Also of course leadership seemed to have been a bit more structured as well there. But the market was just they were killing it and and it wasn't just us. I noticed even three different companies. Um and that's like 21 22 around 23. Would you say Arizona is despite it being so saturated and competitive still seem to be producing?

11:20 would you say it's the same right now and two years later from then it's, definitely, less, a, lot, of, people have gone out of Arizona which kind of you want cuz they're usually the people that may have been doing business the wrong way like I said that the way you need to sell in Arizona is very niche now you have to majority of jobs do a battery there isn't net metering it's net billing the buyback's going down every year so there's a lot of factors to where if you do business the right way Arizona can be good I'd say sadly Arizona and and in California too like California is our biggest market

11:47 if, you, do, business, the, right, way, with batteries and all that kind of stuff you can thrive. But sadly, people have looked at the solar industry as a cash grab.

11:54 So,, they're, in, here, just, to, go, and, make these big commissions, you know, versus what's best for the customer, their business. And those guys are shortlived. I've seen that these guys that chase well,, I'm, going to, make, more, per, deal., I never see them last longer than a year or two. They always try to, you know they're chasing all the time where

12:09 I've, set, my, career, up, where, it's, like, hey, I've been able to build a foundation and then build off that and that provides more consistency. And I've noticed as well uh even from what you're saying um people like you, the Ashley Buzz, I interviewed Sam Tiger as well like uh I think a year and a half ago or a year ago, but integrity is so important in in in this specific market and field. Um I feel like solar specifically has inherited like the the pest control douchebags over time.

12:39 Well,, and, and, here, here's, the, truth, to is everyone in the industry talks about doing right by the customer, but isn't it interesting how majority of installers don't check jobs. So, like you and I, we can go sell a job today and put panels on whatever roof and do whatever offset. Majority of installers and, it's, kind, of a, call, out, to, a, lot of installers out there and sales orgs they don't validate that deal.

13:01 We, do., We, we, when, we, sell, a, job, here specifically in Arizona, if the usage isn't put in correct, we deny it. If you aren't doing a battery, we'll reject it until there's a reason. So, like everyone talks the talk in this industry like, "Oh yeah, we're we're customer first." Well, then why do you guys let any kind of system be installed? Why do you let any kind of sales rep sell for you?

13:20 Cuz, all, these, guys, really, the, motive behind what people really say is is based off their actions. And I we've noticed like at our size, we're one of the very few sales organizations that I know in the industry that actually will check jobs on the back end to make sure that the information all lines up. M

13:35 and, but, yet, people, don't, do, that,, but they always want to talk about how they care so much about our customers. But it's also a big reason why the industry is getting such a bad rap

13:42 because, these, guys, are, like,, "Oh,, yeah, we're very big about our customer." Well, then why do you let this company sell for you and we know they're putting panels on the north roof

13:50 you, know,, when, everyone, knows, doing, a system on the north roof, especially in Arizona, actually is worse than than better for the customer.

13:56 Yeah. So,, I, always, think, through, that, stuff. No,, I, agree, more., I, mean,, I, had, so, many bad experiences with some installers like Core Energy. I don't know if you've ever heard of them. My gosh. Like the nice thing is that they installed super quickly, but it's like at what at what cost? You know what I'm saying? Like the unprofessionalism. They just slap roofs up. Sometimes they damage the tiles up there. Like it's one of those things where it's like a fast and that's why they went down and under, you know, and I I also knew like the owner as well.

14:21 But not to like mention that, it's the fact that um when you mention the whole back office thing, I think it's important because it's actually caring about the customer because many people speak it but don't actually do it. want to up the money at the end of the day you know. So

14:35 and, the, main, check, is, what, do, they, do when the job is sold? Most majority of installers currently when a job is sold they will just continue to progress every job.

14:44 Very, few, companies,, sales, oriented installers actually will validate deals and be like, hey, did does this homeowner actually use this much power? Where are the panels placed and will it produce right? Cuz here in Arizona specifically, you have on on and off peak times. So during, you know, the afternoon, it's more expensive. Well, if you put solar panels on the east where's the sun at 4 p.m.?

15:04 It's, on, the, west., But, yet,, a, lot, of, guys will install a system with panels on the east. Installers claiming, "Oh, yeah we're big about the customer. Why are you letting your installers put panels on a east roof when you do need some on a south or west to offset the peak times, right? It's just log, but yet these people don't think like that right? It's it's sad that sales guys are like, "Well, I just don't care because I just want my job installed so I get paid bank, bro." It's just like it's a really bad mindset in my opinion. M I couldn't agree more. And then do you are you guys are your own installer or you you Okay.

15:34 No,, so, our, our, model, is, very, uh, unique. So we've we've gone down the route of using a single installation company uh the last almost 2 years. We now um sub we contract out to more local regional installers similar to every construction, right? There is no one big, you know, construction company. What we found, you know, we're very what's best for the customer and rep experience and we've just found our company, we we are the big box sales engine, right? Sun, my company, we we handle all the culture, the growth of sales. And then in each different market, we use a more local regional installers cuz every market's so different, right? Arizona permits and ASJS are completely different than Maryland or Texas. And so, it's been unique having to figure out how to tie all that together, but also it's been a huge blessing. And we have found that our customers and reps have had a h a way better hands-on experience because

16:24 when you use a more local construction company, they're a lot more hands-on to giving a better experience because they know their market. Similar if you and I build a home in Arizona, we fly to Florida. We're not using the same home builder.

16:35 So,, that's, [clears throat], kind, of, our approach to it. We've tried the big box one in construction company, one thing. There's pros and cons to it. We just found overall if you're really putting the customer rep first in my opinion it's a lot more of a hands-on experience cuz there's so many nuances when it comes to doing a solar install.

16:50 And, then, [snorts], is, that, the, the trajectory and plan at least they just try and become your own installer or right now?

16:55 We, will, never, become, an, installer., It, is the last thing. It's just not the play right now. Like the and this is where sales guys don't have respect for installers. It doesn't matter the size. The installers are the ones that take on all the risk and liability.

17:09 But, yet, these, sales, guys, are, like, "Well,, who's, going to, pay, me, the, most?" do this for me. It's like you need to have a win-win regardless if your installer is the biggest or a local. They need to stay in business. They're the ones that are going to try to service that system, right? They're the ones who's going to pick up the phone when there's an issue. Most these sales guys, aren't, going to, be, in, door, to, door in many years to come.

17:26 And, so,, you, know,, it's, unique, to, see, see that, but we have no intentions of doing any of the construction because it's just not the play.

17:33 Okay., And, then, with, uh, the, whole installer thing, have you had any um obviously like experiences, setbacks with like bad installers and like what are the specific criteras that you look for to try and gain like the right installers for that specific market that you guys are currently in right now?

17:52 Yeah,, I'd, say, I'd, say, for, us,, you, know, it's it's an everchanging kind of industry right now. You know, the bill all these kind of things coming out. I think for us the most important thing is just financial health and stability. Something unique about our model is we have uh partnerships with a lot of the banks in the industry that kind of help guide us on which installers to use and not to use. So we're able to kind of cross reference like okay this is when this installer gets funded. It you know is that slow or fast? You know this is the material they have. So we've been able to do a really good job at our size vetting out a lot of the facts of financials. How much crew capacity they have? Do they have enough capacity to actually handle our volume? You know what's their strategy? Are they diversified? And so for us, that's kind of what we look for is just like health of the installer. It's not about who's

18:37 the cheapest. It's it's more about the quality. Cuz right now, the name of the game is not, you know, fastest install. It's just who's going to pay

18:44 cuz, the, banks, are, changing., Like, the money's drying up in this industry right now in a very weird way because of the big the big beautiful bill. So, it's about who's got stability and security that's not overleveraging themselves. The sad thing you see in this industry is majority of companies go chase volume and then now they become beholden to that, right? And so they're willing to drop their shorts and do all these things because they have to get volume to keep business. We're more focused on okay who can actually like maintain a healthy kind of relationship and and not overlever themselves.

19:11 And, I, mean, there's, just, so, much, it's like a billion dollar industry like solar as as a whole and with all government incentives and everything else. Why do you think it's been the leading factor to why so many companies have went down and under over time? Three things I think. One, I mentioned this earlier. The install companies are willing to give anyone and their mother the cheapest cost. You know you today, I could introduce you to 10 solar installers here in Arizona that will give you the same cost to go do an install as they are giving it to one of their other partners. So, one, these installers are dropping their shorts because they want volume. Two, they're not regulating the volume. So, they're allowing you look at kind of the trends of, some, of these, companies, that, have gone bankrupt. They gave away they gave you know, they don't understand the difference between their hard cost and

19:57 soft cost. So they go give everyone a cheap call red line, but then they don't realize that they're actually losing money because everyone has this cheap cost, too. They're the ones that are installing any type of job. They're not regulating the size of the system. They're not regulating if the panels are on the right roof, all the factors.

20:13 So, then, that, leads, to, three,, which, is now they start spending a lot of money

20:17 fixing, things, and, chasing, things., It's it's a common trend. If you look at the last 10 years, that is what's happened to some of these big companies and small that got out of business. And then the finance companies are really starting to crack down on just because you have the system installed doesn't mean we're going to fund you. You act you have to have all these like criterias.

20:32 So, that's, really, how, clear, it, is., It's just they give they're giving everyone way too low of a cost that shouldn't deserve it. Should be met off volume but they get so desperate. Two, they're not regulating their deals, so they're letting all these bad deals happen which then three leads to them having to fix more things. And then what does that sales group do that sold bad business? They just go to the next guy.

20:50 Yeah. So, then, it's, like, they're, left, holding the bag and it's like, well, you did this to yourself. You let everyone in their mother come on, sell it a give them a cheap cost. You didn't protect your margins. You were desperate for volume. You didn't regulate their business. So therefore, you you pay the price,

21:04 you, know., Yeah,, that's, fascinating., And then obviously you guys have got 1500 people um right now. Um isn't there a fear sometimes of growing a little too fast in terms of the sales reps aspect as well? cuz sometimes growing too fast can be detrimental to a company's growth and and the trajectory of which they're heading. Is that a concern for you guys at the moment?

21:23 We've, been, big, for, a, long, time., Like, I said, Sunder started in 2019. I think we've passed over 55,000 solar installs in our career.

21:30 So,, we've, done, it, a, big, I, think, it, comes down to just you don't manage people you manage systems. And I think we've created really good systems. We we have a tech platform. We have great leadership. And so, we've been able to manage that because of the systems we have um and because of our platform. People are coming to our company because of the security and stability we provide to them where a lot of people in the industry are scared right now. Going and tying yourself to an installation company right now is very scary because there's a lot of unknowns. You know these companies are promising this they're going out of business, that guy's left

22:01 missing, out, hundreds, of, thousands, of dollars, right? And so, I think guys are realizing being somewhere where you have diversification is very safe to them. I look at it the same way. I'm sure you invest in the stock market, right?

22:13 Mhm., Do, you, own, a, stock, or, do, you, have, a variety of stocks? Just, a, few., Yeah,, I, have, a, few.

22:17 Yes., And, so, it's, the, same, thing, what, we learned a couple years ago. Why go put all of our money, our eggs in one basket where now our model is very diversified where we're using a variety of different construction companies which allows us to be very nimble and also protected because if one position of our company was to maybe struggle, it's not taking down the whole program.

22:35 And, that's, how, sales, guys, want, it. Selfishly, if you and I are selling in Arizona, you don't really care how's it going in Illinois. you just want the best experience here and vice versa right? And so what we've provided is a platform to where you're still part of that whole ecosystem, but you're getting your selfishly best experience to where you're serving your clients. So, and it also diversifies our business. We don't have any fixed overhead. We don't own trucks, warehouses, branches. We don't have all these big fixed expenses that can go take a company down when times get tough.

23:04 Oh, gosh,, I, love, that., And, I, mean, the fact that you're very stuck on principle of what the vision and and like the your mission is sometimes I feel like people end up trying to take on responsibility is try to become an installer try to become this thing try to become that thing and then before you know it it just always sinks in because it's like if this like it's not broken why you got to fix it rather just go one direction and continue to enhance the the trajectory and the path that you're kind of going as well and I think it's it's important the fact that you know you stuck to your principles and you go in that direction. However, what are some of the things that you are doing right now to try and prevent the company from going down like most of these companies that have in this industry?

23:43 I, think, number, one,, we, if, you, look, at the common trend, again, this isn't to knock on people in the industry. This isn't a all beall majority of the companies that have gone out of business have taken on the liability of construction. M

23:57 so, for, us, we're, going, to, avoid, that because like I just mentioned earlier when you become the installer

24:02 you, now, have, to, have, the, trucks, the warehouses you got to have the credit lines to buy equipment you got to service the system so and you you take on a massive fixed expense my company is a massive sales organization that is very asset light we have I think 20 employees we have tech we have optionality so that is our difference is we are going to stay in this kind of middle ground where we're we're one of the largest sales organizations but yet we don't have to carry any of the liability or debt.

24:28 And, that, is, what, these, guys, have, chased. They go and become their own installer and you run that risk. Not saying everyone's doing it wrong, just saying that you start to take on fixed expenses and then if things get tough, you still have the mortgage to pay, you know, so you either close it down. No, to this point, no one's really been able to prove the national construction model at at scale on a long-term basis. There's always been kind of this like thing that happens, right? You look at a sunun they've shut markets down over the last couple years. You look at some of the bigger installers, they've gone bankrupt. The Titans, ADT, no one's been able to kind of keep the bro that program going on a long-term basis without something else having to sacrifice.

25:06 H, that's, so, fascinating., Now,, now, coming down to like the sales rep as well. Um you guys have programs for summer and year round or how does that work?

25:14 We're, like, 90%, year, round., I, think that's what makes Sunund unique is we [clears throat], aren't, some, summer program. We're not a blitz program. We don't go hammer a market leave. We've built a really good year round consistent business. A lot of our leaders live in markets. I think people get into our industry cuz they want a lifestyle. They don't want to have to go leave for the summer. Some guys do. We do have teams that do that and stuff but we've been very heavily based off hey, you live and work where you are.

25:36 You have a lifestyle. Go home to your kids at night kind of thing. That's truly why I got into solar. I didn't want to go leave and go do alarm cells over the summer and leave. I was like man, if I can do solar, I can make the money I need to make where I live and still have that lifestyle.

25:48 Yeah., And, I, think, that's, what, also worked uh uh as well for me. So I did like two years year round and obviously that's where I got the most success because as much as we hammered that down in like the the summer time like the year on was a bit more schedule like and so you treat it like a an actual job. You go out the hours there a career and it's just it's way more efficient. It's also a good time which is less stressful. So you can see around like those customers the referrals you work a little smarter you find strategies and you become a bit more useful. But at the same time, summer cuz you're in a structure where it's like an office space can also just like be a quick like injection of boost for you as well.

26:24 But, which, kind, of, leads, to, like, and, if you do a year- round thing, how do you prevent burning out?

26:29 I, think, it's, a, marathon,, not, a, sprint. You, know,, would, I, love, for, everyone, to go work 8 10 hours a day? Sure. I think the reality is it's about it's all about scheduling and having a plan to where you do create this like a career. having kind of your schedule where you know when your time is to go generate business,

26:46 your, time, to, close, business,, your, times to train. So, I think it's more of a marathon versus sprint of having that kind of consistency of a schedule.

26:52 You, know,, when, you're, in, a, competition, go go hard when you're not, you know live that kind of lifestyle. Go on those vacations kind of thing. Um, is is kind of the thing. But I think also being somewhere people want to be somewhere where they're around others doing more than what they are currently doing. So I think Sunders's job and many great companies out there create a culture to where people are part of something that helps them feel like they're working towards something bigger all the time so they continue to drive forward and all that kind of stuff. That's that's that's amazing. Then what would separate like um I mean you've done on average 100 or more installs a year in in like the 10ear span. What separates like those sales reps that make a 100 compared to those that are like in the 20 or low because all the information is there and like the same pitch and everything. What

27:38 what separates those elite from like just your average cuz 20 is still like a good like amount considering like how much it gets paid but it's nowhere near the level and standard of like those that are doing exceptionally well.

27:48 Yeah., I'd, say, I'd, say, this, isn't, just, in our industry, it's in life. The biggest traits, the two biggest traits I've noticed besides all the cliche work hard, all that, you know, but the the two main things that I'll say that's different is successful people in this industry, they know their KPIs, key performance indicators. If you talk to any of my great leaders I work with they can tell you exactly if their goal is three deals this week, they can tell you exactly, reverse engineering, they can tell you if they need three deals they can tell you how many people they need to sit with. They can tell you how many appointments they have to set. They can tell you how many homeowners or decision makers. And then they can tell you how many doors. So, anyone that's successful in anything knows their KPIs.

28:29 And in in our job, that's what I learned from my mentors early on. I take the emotion out of it. Everyone's so focused. Oh, you got to work x amount of hours. I don't care about the hours. The hours are a byproduct. If your goal is to go knock 200 doors, how many hours does it take to knock 200 doors? You know, 10, 12. So, see a lot of guys are like, you can, but your emotions play games on you. If you're like, man, I've been out for an hour. I need to go home. I think the fatigue for me, it's like no, if my goal every day is just to talk to 10 decision makers. Well, if halfway through I'm like beating myself up and I'm like, oh, I'm only at five. I'm winning. I'm halfway to my goal. When I hit 10, I'll go home. So, I take out the emotional thing of the the hours. But I'd say number one, they know their numbers. And number two, it help if they know their numbers, they know their steps to everything they do. They know

29:15 their steps to the door approach, the close. And this is any career. Every successful person I know, like did you play sports growing up?

29:21 Yeah. Is, there, a, single, professional, athlete that you know that doesn't know their their metrics?

29:27 Impossible. Impossible., Um, especially, the, more, you become like semi-pro and professional like it's just everything is just

29:35 LeBron, knows, exactly, what, his, free, throw percentage is, you know? So again, reps and even people in life, one they don't track their numbers. So they don't track their stats of you know when performance is measured performance improves. So they don't track their performance. So therefore they don't know what to improve and then therefore they don't have steps to each of the the things they're doing. If it's door too they don't they don't have their steps to the door approach. They don't have their steps to the maybe their closing process. So therefore it's like those two go together. You track your numbers to then identify if you're skipping a step.

30:04 So, those, would, be, my, two, things, is that's what I've noticed the difference is for me. Did I go knock 30 hours a week? No. I just figured out my numbers and said, "Okay, if I want to do a hundred installs, I need to sell this many, I need to do." And I just reverse engineer and just stuck to that every week and it just made it really easy and it and it it didn't burn me out because I was like "Oh, this is

30:23 this, is, easy.", And, then, consistently, led to excellence to where out of every 10 homeowners, an average person should set one appointment. Well, if you consistently do something, it leads to every 10 home owners, two appointments. M

30:33 so, the, reason, I, was, able, to, go, do, high numbers and a lot of leaders I've worked with do more numbers is it's not that they increased their work like time on the doors they just increased their productivity by consistently sticking to that which made them more effective powerful and I think it was Malcolm Gladwell that spoke about the the doctrine of the 10,000 hours as well and consistency as you mentioned like obviously leads to excellent the blueprints are there for people that have been successful you mentioned LeBron James Messi Ronaldo all these like professional athletes es that are just so good at what they do. Serena Williams, uh Tom Brady everyone knows success comes from consistency. What why can't people just maintain that level of consistency especially like in the door to door industry? Harvard did the study of the reference group.

31:19 It's, all, about, who, you're, throwing, with. I think that is why you look at, you know, in door todoor guys chase the dollar. So they're willing to they're always been like, well, if I can go get paid more per deal, I'm going to make more. Well, it's not about what you make per deal, it's what you make per deal. You look at Vivant, they're kind of the cream,, the, the the, crown, jewel, of, door to door back when they were at their heyday of alarms, right?

31:41 More, people, made, money, at, Vivant, in, Door back in the heyday than they did going and being their own alarm company. It's the same principle in solar. I've done this 10 years now. I have seen so many guys go be their own little solar company and I've never seen any of them actually out earn majority of the people that are plugged into a sales program

31:59 over, the, over, a, consistency, of, 1, 2, 3 years because again I think the secret is you need to be you need to have a reference group. You need to have those five 10 or in our case hundreds of people and this is a shout out to some of the, other, big, sales, organizations too. The companies that can create a reference group of that that is what helps people go be more successful. But sadly, you know, and I'm different. I grew up with big money. You know, my dad's wealthy. I grew up with other people. So, I've saw early on principles of success. Sadly, many people getting into solar. If when I ask people, most of their parents didn't even make six figures.

32:31 They, don't, know, what, it's, like, to, go, be a millionaire. For me, I that's all I knew growing up was like I look at my dad like homeless at 14, didn't go to college, the guy's multi-millionaire. I look at my neighbor and I'm like, "Okay these guys are great human beings and they have a ton of money. What's what principles do they apply?" So that's all I took is just applying that. But what I learned from my dad especially is my dad didn't make all the money himself. He tells me all the time he goes, "Max, I would have made a a 20th of what I made if it wasn't for my business partners.

32:57 You, know,, my, dad, made, a, lot, of, his, money in the internet." Boom. He is not a tech guy, you know. He is a sales guy, you know, but it's all about that. So that would be my answer is it's all about your reference group. I'm always willing to give a little bit here to gain more here. You know, half a watermelon is more than a full grape. Powerful. And so for me, I've always been luckily trained early on from the people I have in my life to focus on being with the right people with the right platform because the byproduct is half a watermelon is more than a full grape. And financially it's done wonders for me and many of the guys that I've worked with. And that's why Jim Ron said, "You are the average of the five people you hang out with."

33:30 Um cuz naturally you end up picking up traits, you end up picking up habits. And and that's why if you're with a group of degenerate people, even if you're a very college educated person you just end up like inheriting those traits. And and it's also been proven as you mentioned that Harvard study if you end up hanging out with people that I think they made a study as well when I cuz I'm originally born in Ring in South Africa. Um, and I think I I once learned and heard about this scenario where um they were encouraging kids to sit on the table with their parents and they got to find out that those that would watch TV and eat dinner while watching TV compared to those that were just sitting with their parents um same class, same age, same everything, those that sat with their parents on the table started hearing conversations were becoming a bit more intellectual. They started like being better critical thinkers as well.

34:18 And I think with what you mentioned because you've seen that that's all you know and it's easy because now if you're on the for level of mentorship you know your dad's only made that amount of money. It's almost like okay well that's the, norm., You, know what, I'm, saying?, And I think it's so hard um for those that haven't had those mentors but like what advice would you have for those people that haven't had that level of mentorship? Drop the ego. Because again everything I see in this industry everyone the reason why they go do their own thing is they're just egotistic. I can go do it myself, but I find me a billionaire that did it on their own.

34:50 Not a single one of them. There's no successful person that will say I am this because of myself.

34:56 They're, all, they've, all, had, people, they've had business partners, they've had, you know, things. So, my advice is like drop the ego and and go find the people that are doing things in categories that you want to be better at that you're, you know, go find those people that are being what you want to be in those categories, right? similar you know, you and I know Jake and and and Joe, the twins we're talking about. I needed to kind of whip my butt, get back in shape, you know, so I called them and said, "Hey, they're hustling.

35:19 I'm going to go work out with them, you know. Shout out to those guys. That was last summer." I was like "I got to get back in shape." That's again the drop the ego, right? Like I'm older than them. All this kind of stuff. No, dude. I don't care. They're freaking cool. They're going to help me, right? So again, people are so shortminded in this industry. They think about, well, if I go sell this one deal, I can make two grand more on this one deal if I'm by myself. Well, great. I haven't found any of you that consistently have a a successful career. You're always chasing because then you try to build and then you lose guys. You know, it's it's just a revolving door. When you said ego, I I couldn't agree more. And and I think that's it's so hard because it it's given door to door such a bad rep. And that's where I learned most of like I've I've always been an extrovert.

36:00 I've always been a person. I mean, I did two internships in in New York. I got a full-time offer there, end up declining it to try and like follow the the the pursuit of like being an entrepreneur. But my point is like I feel like just the few rotten few are just giving a bad rep for everyone else. You know like the whole like I am this I am that kind like fake numbers just all this stuff has given the door to door rep such a toxic trait but it's the one place where people have gained the most skill from. You, know what, I'm, saying?, Would, you agree? Yeah. That I wish it's funny as I talk to people. I've been at it 10 years. So I've I started when commissions were 1500 2,000 you know now they're 7 10 right six. The sad reality is most people got into sol the last 5 years. So all they know is big commissions.

36:42 Exactly., So, sadly, and, and, I, hope, a, lot of those guys will kind of wean out as this bill comes through and they'll change a lot of things. Uh ohms analytic which is a big kind of analytical data thing for residential says you know they project project a 60% uh volume production if this bill goes through as is and stuff like that and solar. But you look at you're like, "Yeah, majority of the industry right now is made up of guys that got into it during COVID to go make bank, bro, and aren't really thinking about and don't know how to run a a you know, business." And that's the thing is we've cultivated this culture in our industry. Anyone can be a business owner because like I mentioned to you earlier, you could call any installation company and they'll let you be your own sales company. So, everyone has this ego like I'm a CEO and it's like you have no you've never learned business or ran a business or around

37:25 people in business, but because this this installer said that you can be your own sales company, therefore you have this, entitlement, of, it., [clears throat]

37:32 And, I've, never, been, lured, by, that, cuz I'm like, if that was going to make me the most per year and my guys, I'd do it. But I never have had that thought. Money is a byproduct to me because of how I grow up. I'm always going to make money. So, I'm going to focus on other things that matter more where then the byproduct becomes more money. And it's crazy that you mentioned that because unfortunately I think another driving factor for this is social media because there are so many of these gurus that are out there and half of them are in fact not even half but a large majority are, just, so, phony., You, know what, I'm saying? And it's been that's why I'm saying it's been such an enlightening thing being with the twins because I've you know they've been making me work out every single day. It's been the first time worked out like five days in a row.

38:09 We're going on six as well. But like I feel like we're losing the plot of like just genuiness of people because social media is painting a thing of like the figure like hey I make this amount and you just take what people's words are saying and I think it's just the sales bro culture I just wish it would just die out you know it's just giving the rep such a bad name whereas door to door it's got some of the best people I've come across ever you know would you add on that as well

38:32 my, dad, did, door, to, door, didn't, Mark Cuban do door, to, door, is, I, think, it's, cool everyone wants to be a business owner door to door is the best way to be learn like entrepreneurship on training wheels. You can basically be your own entrepreneur with $1099 and fail and not lose your business. If you think about this week, I could go out and you know cuz what do what do business owners have to do? They have to generate their own business. They have to learn people skills like door to door is literally entrepreneurship 101. The beautiful thing about doortodoor is that it's training wheels in the fact that if you go out a whole week and you fail at entrepreneurship not generating business, you don't lose your business right? If you own a store and you fail at those kind of things, you lose your business because it So, I look at it that perspective. I'm like, man, what an opportunity we have to really go like

39:18 learn all the skill sets that business owners have and need to go own your businesses down the road, you know, cuz you, look, at, a, lot, of the, greats, in, door to door the last 30 years, most of the successful ones have gone on to do very successful things. So, I view it that way, too, is man, I love what we're doing right now. It's the best thing to learn skill sets to then be uh to be ready for your future kind of entrepreneurship cuz you kind of have a buffer right now to fill, right? If I go out today and knock and I don't get an appointment, that's okay. Hey, I can go make it up tomorrow. When you own a real business, if you miss payroll for your employees, your business is done. You know what, I, mean?, So,, like, I, love, that concept. Um, but I think with this be beautiful bill, it's helped people realize like to your point, you know, I always tell people when you're when I'm

40:00 recruiting, ask me questions about what investments I have. Ask me about like what I've done with my career cuz most of these, guys, you, see,

40:07 what, they've, done, with, their, career, is buy shoes. They, don't, own, a, a, house., They, don't, own a car. M

40:13 how, much, recurring, revenue, do, you, have? You know, I make $15,000 a month of passive income right now. And that's all because of the money I've made in solar to invest in deals outside of solar that now pay my bills. I talk about that openly because most guys in solar can't say, that., If, you, ask, most, of these, gurus and top dudes like, "Cool, what kind of like cash flowing assets do you have?" Well, you know, they don't know. You know, they don't. It just baffles me right? But guys, go follow those guys.

40:38 Ask those kind of questions like, "Hey what kind of recurring revenue do you have? What investments do you own? what long-term deals do you have? You know like that's the kind of methodology I have. But again, I was raised different.

40:48 A, lot, of, these, guys, are, like,, "Yeah,, but that dude drives a cool car and, that, benefits, you, how,

40:53 you, know,, that's, my, that's, how, I, feel., I get passionate about it, you know, cuz I'm like, dude, it's all about investing and setting yourself up, you know?"

40:58 I, love, that, so, much., Uh, the, question, I had about leadership then would you think uh would you say rather that leadership,

41:06 do, you, think, you're, born, with, it, or something you can actually gain and and develop over time or a bit of both? I think both. Like you know, there's three types of people in this world. There's people that make it happen, watch it happen, and wonder what the hell happened, right? I'll be the first to admit when I was growing up, I I was a little bit of a made it happen versus and watch it happen right? Cuz, you know, I drove a blacked out Escalade in high school. Like, I was given a lot of things, right? It wasn't until I grew up, went on my church mission that I got home and realized I had more of a made it happen kind of attitude. So, I think it is a combination of both. I've lived both to where I didn't really make it happen because I didn't need to, but then I realized when I had to, I actually made it happen. Um, but again, that goes back to me is I think everyone can develop

41:50 those skill sets, but it's all about who you go surround yourself with. You know a lot of these guys in this door space take on the mentality, I'm going to go do it myself.

41:58 Exactly. And, therefore,, they, never, develop, the trades. If I'm over here like, dude, if I'm going to make a little less on these deals, but I'm a like like I talked about investments earlier. If you ask a handful of the leaders I personally work with, one of my top leaders, he makes $7,500 a month in passive income outside of solar.

42:14 Interesting. 90%, of, that, is, from, investments, that, me and him are doing together. So, see, my mind goes into, okay, I'll take less money if I can work with you because it sounds like you're going to help me in another aspect of life. And therefore the byproduct is I'm going to actually make that up 10x

42:27 100%., So,, see, my, mind, go, and, this, is where these guys and that's life but like I'm just I always view it that way of okay cuz you know a lot of these gurus and doortod dooror guys are like oh yeah you got to go buy real estate and invest okay how well you just do it and it's like they don't know how I'm over here like I can tell you exactly I can help many people in my life and anyone if they call me I can give them five to six deals right now that can help them make passive income and actually teach them how because I was taught how I have people living that lifestyle and that actually introduced me to the people and my blessing is to pass that along to people I know.

43:00 I, couldn't, agree, more., Thank, you, so, much like for sharing and touching on that. The reason why um like when I think about that, Max, I just think about how I had to even change my interview style over time because like yes, the first few guests were like big names, but a lot of the stuff was so vague like "Yeah, go work hard. It's all in your mind." like you know like I I'm like I I have like um you know I'm a 10igure entrepreneur and yeah if you go and put your all the eggs you can do it there but there is no blueprint. There is no steps. There is no stuff that no tangibility my dad's one of my biggest fans.

43:38 I'm not going to throw one of my guests down here cuz I'm really grateful for each and every single person like that's that's been there cuz they've helped elevate the show by bringing their audience as well. Uh but one of my dad it was a guy who said you know they made this amount of money like it was super high but like my dad's like okay but how did he make it so I went to go watch the interview again and it was like there was nothing that was like I made that you can go do it as well I'm amazing on this on that thing but it's like that's not the purpose like people but the thing is there sometimes people get a following from that and people start loving it but it's like you what did you what did you gain from being at that seminar because you just heard how amazing this person is but there is no blueprint. There's no step of like fine go build up your credit score. After you build up your credit score, end up like

44:20 finding the right finance that can like do that thing. Okay. Where do you get the listing, go to like the certain website as well, get a realtor that can help you get the you know, but there is no blueprint was always I make this thing amazing. And I think the fact that you said that I think it's a very attractive trade because it shows already transparency number one and it shows trust because now if you can break those two things down, it's easy for somebody to trust you. But everyone is so obsessed with the because social media we just pick up on the big figures like oh that amount but it's like I've gained nothing and I paid a,000 bucks to be in the seminar but like I gain nothing. So I appreciate you being the openness and I think that's probably very good for recruiting as well because recruiting is great but also retention is far more important. It's easy to recruit. The secret is sustaining and

45:02 retaining and, I'll, say, like, I, I, I'm, as, you, can tell I'm a very logical person. Like sadly, a lot of guys in this space get recruited off the emotion and hype. I I do really well recruiting people based off like tangible things. I can give them actual blueprint of how to get more appointments, how to deal more deals and then beyond that actually make more money. Like one of my favorite texts last week from one of my leaders just texted me, "Hey man, just sent $75,000 into that investment fund. Thanks so much." Like that's cool that I had a leader that made that kind of money that just wired 75,000 into into a real estate fund I'm in that I introduced him to. Like that stuff's cool to me cuz I'm like yeah that is winning beyond what solar is and door to door. But that's what door to door is for is to

45:44 be, obsessed, with, this, now, to, then diversify to that. I've only lost money in two deals I've ever done. They're both deals that I never told my dad or his business partners about. So, I've learned like, okay, I'm just going to like tell all the people I know about and then I just don't lose, you know because again, it's smart people learn from their mistakes, brilliant learn from others. I'm just like, well, I've obviously have very brilliant people.

46:02 I, got, to, type, that, out., Continue., That's one of the best phrases I've heard. Smart people learn from the mistake. Brilliant people learn from others. Sorry.

46:07 Yeah., And, again,, I, have, learned, I'm, not lured into doing things that guys in the space do, trying to be their own, you know, installer, so to say, or their own sales or because I've learned obviously that's not the long-term success or things like that. investing, right? So but but I'm very open. You know, I I have a really unique childhood, right? My my parents got divorced when I was nine. My mom became a drug addict who passed away from it. Cocaine, heroin. So, like I'm very open about this stuff and my investments because I want people to also recognize like we all go through hard And the more that you can realize that is a blessing versus a curse, like me realizing that, dude, I have a mom growing up. She became addicted to drugs. like that actually was the biggest blessing in my life because it made me realize like that is not the path to go down. I had a very good discernment, right? And so I've

46:54 been able to really understand and I think a lot of people get scared to talk about things they go through in life but I'm like no, own it. I'm sure most like when I talk to people, most people have probably been an abusive family like I was. Most people maybe didn't have a mom growing up. Most people have been around drugs. Like I've been around all that kind of stuff. I'm grateful for that now because it's made me who I am today and it's made me realize like door to door is easy. If you emotionally can't handle this, like you obviously haven't gone through hard things yet.

47:20 For me, I'm over here when I was knocking doors a lot, I would be like you, know what?, Am, I, gonna, let, that person that just yelled at me dictate my life when I over here had my mom leave me die from drugs? Like, you know, I get real about it, but I'm like that this ain't nothing. Like, I can keep knocking doors if I can deal with this. And so, I always tell people, too, like buy, you know, rely on the things you went through, too. We've all had our experiences, right? I'm sure you've had your childhood and people here think about those things often and how that you know that's that's good in a sense.

47:52 We need to go through hard things to to get to the to the good stuff. Are, you, LDS?

47:57 Yes. Okay., Cuz, I, was, going, to, say, the, best part about um our faith is understanding that like these trials are are are good for us to actually gain the testimony and draw closer to like a a higher being, our heavenly father as well. And I think one of my mentors also mentioned that like life [snorts] does not happen to you but it happens for you as well. So when you mention all this stuff and you think about think and grow rich every single person that has reached that level of success that level of success came with a lot of scars, pain anguish, all the different stuff because throughout that marathon they built that character of who they are as well. And that that quote I'm going to I'll I'll say that you told me that quote, but that's a very very beautiful quote. I was like what did he say early on and then you mentioned it again. And I'm like, I'm sorry. I'm going to take out

48:41 my phone and type that out. And, it's, like, my, mom., I, I, learned, from my mom of all her mistakes. You know brilliant people learn from others. I learned from hers that what she was doing was not right. So therefore, I thought, okay, I'm not going to go do drugs. I'm not going to let that be my my out from all the, you know what I mean? So that again, I I look back at my life and I'm like, man, that is true. It's like that's why you need that reference group and you need good people because people, you can't put a price tag on that, right? When I have recruited people, I'm like, I don't think they can put a price tag on the amount of money I can help them make outside of solar, which actually makes up maybe giving up a couple hundred bucks on a deal. You know, if I can go make them a couple hundred bucks of cash flow, that's worth way more, you know things. So, yeah, I I love that principle cuz that's how I view life.

49:24 And what I always look at people of okay, what can I learn from you that's good and bad?

49:28 And, the, bad,, I'm, going, to, I'm, going, to discern, it., I'm, going to, realize,, do, I do it or not?

49:32 You, know,, what's, the, outcome?, Right?, I look at my mom when she died. You know as I mentioned earlier, my mom got half the money. My dad get got millions of dollars. When she died, she had $32 in her bank account. That's so sad.

49:42 She, lost, everything., We, had, a, 10acre horse ranch in Scottsdale. 60 like we had like she had everything. She could have just been set. So logically, I looked at I said, "Man, this beautiful woman is dying right now." And not only is she dying, but she literally lost everything. That's going to be my choice of not following her path. So, I stayed away from all that stuff. And so did my sisters. And we we're both we're all married now. Now we all have children. So it's been cool to kind of like learn from others experiences as well. And I don't think people tap into that much. A lot of people try to push away bad things that happened to them. I like embrace them cuz then you learn from them. It's so powerful. Thanks for sharing that, man. I really appreciate that. Um I just wanted to ask two more questions as we conclude right now. And I think it's I just love um just the entrepreneurial rawness. that's just so

50:29 real like everything that you just said and just transparency is so important cuz like I said we're so focused on the last number as well. Uh what would you say is the best part not the hardest part but the best part of being an entrepreneur? Um I'd say you know I don't know who says these quotes but it's like how you know money doesn't buy happiness. It does. Like money buys happiness because money buys freedom. You know, whoever a lot of gurus say that. So

50:56 probably, an, edmled, probably., That, sounds like an edm. Yeah., But, it's, true., It's, it's, I, think the best thing about the entrepreneur is is one you can go there's no cap on what you can accomplish, right? There's no there's no floor and there's no ceiling. But if you're a make it happy kind of person, all it's about is what is my ceiling? How can I get there? But I love being an entrepreneur because it's like dude, it allows me to buy time to spend time, you know, by, you know, it allows me to make money, which allows me to have freedom, which brings happiness cuz I just had my third kid two weeks ago.

51:25 Congratulations,, brother. Thank, you., Thank, you., So,, like, it, by having this freedom, I can go spend time, you know, with with my kids, even though my wife will say I not, but I'm working on that. You know, there's a balance, you know, she's like, "Hey what's more important?" You know, we'll get to that. But, um, I'd say that's a big blessing. And then I just I again I love the fact that you the the whole go to college like the the whole model is dead. Your return on investment for doing the normal thing in the society is is wrong.

51:55 The amount of debt you go to go to school to go get a career. Now saying if you're going to be a lawyer trades there's probably a good return there. But I just look at that I'm like man being an entrepreneur is the best. When you go to become a doctor you got to trade two things in life. You got to trade time and a ton of money to then make a return.

52:11 To, do, what, we, do,, again,, this, is entrepreneurship on training wheels. All door todoor is asking you to do is just trade your time and then your return on investment is a lot quicker. You can go make doctor money in 12 months where doctors it usually takes them 10 years.

52:24 So,, I've, always, loved, entrepreneurship and specifically like doortodoor because I can go and just trade time. I don't have to trade money to then go make my return on investment in one year versus having to then wait 8 to 10 years.

52:38 That's, so, powerful. If, that, makes, sense. No,, that's, perfect., That's, perfect., And then um because the the the podcast is called the code to winning, I always ask people this towards the end cuz it's obviously insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. Everyone's got a different definition of what winning is. And I mean with all the golden nuggets you gave, I don't know what the heck you're going to answer for this one, but like in your opinion uh for Max Ganley, what does the term winning mean for you? Again, I'm very systematic.

53:06 Winning to me is is being dialed in on your KPIs. So knowing what your key performance indicators are. Number two it's then having a process to anything you're doing. If even if it's not doortodoor, what are the what are the key steps that you need to be focusing on? But then using the numbers. So here's like a it's example is like I teach reps this. If you knocked 400 doors but only talked to 20 homeowners there's a key identifier that you clearly are either knocking at the wrong time, right? If you knocked on 400 doors, you should talk you to door to door. You should talk to like more than 20 homeowners, right? Well, see what that should tell you is that, okay, I'm knocking at the wrong time. And most time I go talk to that rep and they're like, oh yeah, I went knock from 10 to 2 p.m. and I think you did door to door.

53:51 Is that a productive time to knock in a normal like suburb? No. Right. Maybe a retirement area. Right. So, see, I'd say the code to success for me is just I obsess over the KPIs. So, then the byproduct of that, I can preemptively understand if I'm skipping steps in my process. And that's in any aspect of life, right? If my numbers are off on my doors, I can go look at the door approach and see I'm clearly skipping a step. Majority of people you ask in life, they can't tell you what their steps are. So like most people in door tod door, I ask them all the time, tell me your five steps of your door approach. They can't do it. You know when you can simplify, you can testify.

54:29 Learn that on the mission. Um and so I I learned this principle. I'm like, man if I can do my door approach in five steps, like six words, I could do it in 100 words.

54:38 Most, guys, though, don't, do, that., They don't track their numbers to then identify you. And then they don't know their steps and then they don't cross reference, it,, right?, and, and and, it's just to me I'm like why not? It make it makes it so easy. So that would be my answer to you is again it goes back to those two principles is

54:52 obsess, over, knowing, your, KPIs, so, then you can preemptively avoid mishaps cuz you and I both know you've interviewed a lot of successful people. Most will tell you the reason why they're not they don't reach their goal is they slightly get off the path.

55:05 It's, like, an, airplane., If, it, goes, from like do you know this answer? If you take a plane from LA to New York and it's off half a degree south where does it end up

55:13 from, LA, to, New, York?, going, to, probably end up like in like a different uh city or country as well.

55:18 It's, like, down, in, the, Bahamas. So,, see, the, concept, is, like,, man,, just, a half a degree will make you so far from your destination. The reason why I obsess over those two principles is in life you just need bumpers. You're going to get off the path. Well, if you have clear stepby-step guidelines, well, if you're tracking your numbers and you have guidelines, you can just make that kind of critique that that slight tweak to stay on the path to get to your end destination.

55:40 That's, so, powerful. That, makes, sense. Oh,, I, love, that, so, much., Max,, if, you could let our our guests know where they could get a hold of you if they want to try and jump into solar or even people that are within Arizona or any other region as well where they could go if they want to buy solar as well. Let our viewers know.

55:56 Yeah., Yeah., Um, I, I, could, be, better social media, you know. Max Ganley is my Instagram. I'm private. You can follow me. I I I'm not a big solar guru. I don't post a ton. I'm trying to get better at it. You know, time's changing. You know, you're more than welcome to message, me, on, there., All right,, I'm always down to give my phone number if any of you guys too want to talk investments. I love strategizing. So, if you want to reach out to me on Instagram or Facebook, I'll give you my cell phone number. We can text call. If you've got ideas about investments, I'd love to talk about vice versa. I think all that kind of stuff. It doesn't have to be just solar.

56:25 Awesome, stuff., Uh, the, code, to, winning insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. Max Ganley, thank you so much, brother. Appreciate that.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "IS THERE STILL A FUTURE IN DOOR-TO-DOOR SALES || MAX GANLEY || EPISODE 059"?

Max Ganley (Guest), Unknown Host (Host).

What is "IS THERE STILL A FUTURE IN DOOR-TO-DOOR SALES || MAX GANLEY || EPISODE 059" about?

Max Ganley shares his journey from college to becoming a successful door-to-door salesman in the solar industry, highlighting his rapid rise from sales rep to co-founder of Sunder Energy, which now operates in 45 markets with over 1,500 sales representatives. He emphasizes the importance of prioritizing customer needs over quick commissions to ensure long-term success in sales.

What is mentioned in this Code To Winning episode?

15 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Max Ganley, solar, door to door, Sunder Energy, Arizona, KPIs. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "IS THERE STILL A FUTURE IN DOOR-TO-DOOR SALES || MAX GANLEY || EPISODE 059"?

The episode runs 57 min; the transcript is about 13,537 words in 155 timestamped sections.

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