Never Split the Difference: Life Lessons with Chris Voss

What this episode is about

The discussion centers on the deeper motivations that drive individuals, particularly focusing on Chris Voss's perspective on purpose and fulfillment beyond superficial reasons. Voss emphasizes the importance of helping others recognize their potential and believes that anyone can achieve extraordinary feats, underscoring the gratification he derives from facilitating personal growth in others.

Key takeaways

• Your 'because' fuels passion; identify it, and watch ordinary become extraordinary.
• From B+ to A+: Life's about character, not grades—every regular can shine if they choose.
• Extraordinary teamwork often blooms from ordinary roots—fun and hard work can create legends.
• Embrace the journey! Accidental FBI negotiators remind us that destiny often wears a disguise.
• True fulfillment lies in lifting others; selfishness can be the ultimate motivator for positive change.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Mick Hunt (Host) · 15 min speaking
• Chris Voss (Guest) · 22 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: Chris Voss, Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), Damon John, E3
2. 5:00 – 10:00: Chris Voss, Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)
3. 10:00 – 15:00: Donald Trump, Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), collaboration, Jeff Bezos
4. 15:00 – 20:00: Never Split the Difference, Chris Voss, collaboration, Trust
5. 25:00 – 30:00: Trust
6. 30:00 – 35:00: Nick Nattton, Roy Milner, Louisville, Never Split the Difference

Notable quotes from "Never Split the Difference: Life Lessons with Chris Voss"

• Field after another. Like I never even imagined being a hostage negotiator. It wasn't a goal. Being an FBI agent wasn't even a goal. Kind of found myself there by the…

  about Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) · at 4:35

• Volunteered on suicide hotline. Then on the hotline I was astonished at the magic of emotional intelligence, the magic of empathy, just astonishing.

  about Chris Voss · at 6:22

• It's deep on so many levels, right? I get it for leaders. It's my number one book. My team has to read it. You have to read that book within your first 90 days. I told you this. We your first 90 days of employment. You got to read the.

  about Never Split the Difference · at 16:20

• Says everybody in the vast majority, not everybody in the world, but the vast majority of the world wants to collaborate. we're not against each other. We're not at odds.

  about collaboration · at 17:33

• Can you believe President Trump said this? President Trump doubles down, the inflammatory stuff because they're they're they're the guessing that I want to be angry, right?

  about Donald Trump · at 18:30

• Like all the emotional things, but you're really asking somebody to trust you with their future.

  about Trust · at 26:20

• Our good friend Nick Nattton told the story. Every time you guys got together, he's got a fru bottle glass of wine. You've got a bourbon.

  about Nick Nattton · at 30:08

• Me the necessary element that we would have to add to our team if we want to do a bourbon would be Roy Milner who's a Louisville bourbon insider a sherper if you will.

  about Roy Milner · at 31:41

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Chris Voss — Person · Main guest · 4 mentions · first at 0:52
  He explains his path from federal law enforcement into hostage negotiation and how empathy, trust, and collaboration drive effective leadership and negotiation.
• Nick Nattton — Person · Referenced collaborator · 2 mentions · first at 30:08
  Credited as the implementer/marketing driver who proposed starting a bourbon and assembled the right team (including Roy Milner).
• Donald Trump — Person · Referenced example · 3 mentions · first at 10:22
  Used as a 'poster child' for the 'assertive' conflict style and as an example of how respect can unlock collaboration.
• Roy Milner — Person · Referenced collaborator · 2 mentions · first at 31:44
  Introduced as the Louisville bourbon insider ('sherpa') whose credibility and sourcing enabled the bourbon project to succeed.
• Damon John — Person · Referenced influencer · 3 mentions · first at 0:26
  Named as one of the host's top business-impact people and referenced via Shark Tank's view on implementation vs. ideas.
  Think a great idea is enough. And Damon and the Shark Tank crew have openly said on Shark Tank, a great idea might be worth $20. Yeah, cuz there's no implementation.
• Jeff Bezos — Person · Referenced example · 1 mention · first at 10:13
  Cited as another example of an 'assertive' conflict style, alongside Donald Trump, in Chris Voss's typology.
  And the po one of the poster children for assertives these days that everybody knows, of course, is Trump. Jeff Bezos also is in my view is in assertive.

Books & papers

• Never Split the Difference — Book · Core artifact/topic · 4 mentions · first at 15:40
  The host frames it as a foundational leadership and culture book; Chris Voss uses it to argue most people want collaboration and trust-based relationships.

Companies & orgs

• Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) — Company · Key career organization · 3 mentions · first at 4:40
  Chris Voss describes joining the FBI, working terrorism cases in New York, and becoming a hostage negotiator through FBI protocols and training.

Concepts & topics

• Trust — Concept · Core topic · 3 mentions · first at 17:20
  Framed as the basis of long-term relationships and the real object of negotiation—leaders ask others to 'trust you with their future.'
• collaboration — Concept · Core topic · 2 mentions · first at 10:04
  Presented as the goal of effective negotiation and leadership; tied to respect, trust, and long-term relationships.
• E3 — Concept · Referenced program/framework · 1 mention · first at 0:32
  The host credits E3 as life-changing from a business standpoint, but the transcript provides no definition of what E3 is.
  Business standpoint. you, Damon, John, Robert Irvine, like you're my three kee, and life would not be the same without E3, man. So, I just wanted you to know that.

Places & events

• Louisville — Place · Industry anchor location · 2 mentions · first at 31:44
  Referenced as Roy Milner's bourbon-insider base, connecting the bourbon project to Kentucky bourbon expertise.
  Me the necessary element that we would have to add to our team if we want to do a bourbon would be Roy Milner who's a Louisville bourbon insider a sherper if you will.

Media & podcasts

• Shark Tank — Media · Referenced media example · 1 mention · first at 31:16
  Used to reinforce the idea that execution matters more than ideas; Damon John is referenced as part of the 'Shark Tank crew.'
  Think a great idea is enough. And Damon and the Shark Tank crew have openly said on Shark Tank, a great idea might be worth $20. Yeah, cuz there's no implementation.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:03 This is Make Unplugged. Let us uncover the because that thing that drives you, that thing that fuels you. I'm ready if you are. Let's go. But I'd be humbled today, man. Like I told you when I finally got to meet you face to face, there's three people that that really changed my life from a business standpoint. you, Damon, John, Robert Irvine, like you're my three kee, and life would not be the same without E3, man. So, I just wanted you to know that.

0:38 Thank you. Thank you. You know, I always ask [snorts] folks about your be because you know, Simon Synynic did the start with wise, right? Great concept, but I believe that there's a different fuel that gets people to a Chris Voss level. And it's your because your why to me is somewhat superficial. But your because that's that thing that's deeper than your why, your true purpose, your true passion, that thing that keeps you doing what you do. So if I say Chris Vos, what's your cause? Why do you keep doing the things that you

1:11 Well, yeah, we're ultimately sad. We're selfish. I mean, it makes me feel really good to actually help people. Okay, you we're talking a little bit on the way over here. I think everybody's capable of really incredible stuff. Like no, everybody every every person on earth I I do think of myself as just like this regular guy, you know, like I was a B+ student in high school, B minus student in college, you know. It's not like I'm I'm a on the honor roll, you know? not a super high IQ average looking dude, not uh not a great athlete, but but everybody's capable of being extraordinary if they just just will if they just say, "Okay, I could do this."

1:55 And it frustrates me the more people don't see that. And I I think that because I'm a regular dude, like if I could do well, you could do well.

2:05 Yeah. You know, there ain't that much to it. Yeah. And I I like helping people have better lives. It's just enormously gratifying to me.

2:16 Yeah. You You say you're a B+ student, right? B minus in college. Is that what you said?

2:22 Yeah. But you're a A+ human being, bro. A and I really mean that because again the lives that you impact and we'll talk about your history and all the things that you've done, but I get to see it in this this view, right? I see the lives that you impact. We were talking about your extraordinary staff and team that you have and then the circle of friends that you have. Sometimes Chris, I don't think you realize how just impactful you are as a human. I really don't.

2:55 Thanks, man. I appreciate that. Uh I try to be around good people. I try to be around really good, hardworking, regular people that are fun to be around.

3:05 And everywhere I've gone, if we manage to coales a group of fun, hardworking, regular people, like extraordinary things happen.

3:18 Yeah. When I was in New York, uh, working on the terrorist task force, you know, the hardworking regular guys,

3:25 we found each other and terrorism and New York's a big enough place like it was the same thing. The organized crime guys, white color crime guys, you know, whatever the regular hardworking guys got together, made extraordinary cases,

3:39 you know, we made in terrorism, we made cases, they wrote books about it and they made movies about it.

3:44 The organized crime guys did the same thing. If you get those regular people together that just have a ball, just laugh at stupid stuff.

3:51 Yeah. Don't take themselves too seriously. Work like crazy. And then you get a chance to do extraordinary stuff. That's fun.

3:58 Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about this journey you had, though. Not everyone can say they were the number one rated FBI hostage negotiator of all times. We can. There's situations that you've seen that not even the elite have seen, but you always focus on the mission at hand. And I remember talking to you and you were like, "The mission is the mission until the mission changes right?"

4:26 Yeah. Talk to us about how you got into hostage negotiation. Yeah. It was just one thing out of left field after another. Like I never even imagined being a hostage negotiator. It wasn't a goal. Being an FBI agent wasn't even a goal. Kind of found myself there by the circumstances lined up. When I applied for federal law enforcement, I originally applied for the Secret Service cuz that's where I heard about and and I was told Secret Service traveled all over the world. I'm like, "Wow, that's cool." Well, I grew up in Iowa. It was a big deal going to another state. Like crossing the river into Illinois. That was a big deal. That was a big deal.

5:06 So I traveled and secret service wasn't hiring. I was put on my application. I was staying to go to the SWAT team on the police department just before I left. If the bureau would have delayed if the bureau would have delayed by 3 weeks hiring me, I'd have stayed with PD cuz I was two weeks away from going to a SWAT team. Got on a SWAT team in Pittsburgh. And I remember an exercise we did, you know, we it was this supposed bad guy takeover of nuclear facility. We got negotiators inside and I can remember being on the outside on a SWAT knowing that we had somebody in there that was supposedly negotiate and just like, okay, somebody's talking to him on the phone. That's a negotiator. You know what hell's that guy do? you uh his job is to buy us time as we get ready to assault.

5:59 So absolutely oblivious to what it was about and then had multiple knee injuries and um decided well I'll go be a negotiator instead of continuing to tear my knee apart. I didn't figure it'd be hard at all and I didn't, you know, I didn't imagine how rewarding it would be and I was lucky enough I I couldn't get on so I volunteered on suicide hotline. Then on the hotline I was astonished at the magic of emotional intelligence, the magic of empathy, just astonishing. And so that paved the way for me to become a negotiator. And then I was lucky enough I was involved in a really rare event uh that turned out really well. Bank robbery with hostages which almost never happens.

6:48 Mhm. You know the movies make it seem like it happens every day in New York or in LA. U bank robberies happen every day. They just don't have hostages. Bad guys know the police run away and they get out of there. So catching somebody on the inside like it had it hadn't happened in New York City for 20 years. Oh wow. when it when on on the one that I was on.

7:10 That's how rare they are. Okay. So, and it turned out really well as combined effort FBI, NYPD, blended negotiation team, first bad guy to surrender to surrender to me personally outside the back. And so then I uh FBI hostage negotiator is part of our protocol of staying good is teaching. If you're not doing something, even if you're doing it on a regular basis, you want to really immerse yourself, uh, try to teach it.

7:42 Yeah. Cuz you're going to get called out. I mean, you really got to study the hell out of it. You got And you're going to get called out. So, I started teaching at Chase Bank all over the place. And it it was a lot of fun. And

7:56 because I like teaching, I like doing it, it just I can continue to pursue it. I was in the right place, right time. A lot of times I work my ass off.

8:09 And working your ass off really determines whether or not you're in the right place, right time. There you go. I totally agree with that. You know, when we were in Chicago, uh my cousin Rammy asked you a question of if you had to do it all over again, what would you tell the younger version of Chris Voss? And you said, I tell him to be nicer, right? talk us about what that means.

8:35 Um, all right. So, there's uh how you approach conflict. There's basically three types.

8:42 We believe uh I believe my team believes that this is true and we have the anecdotally we've got enough data to sort of back it up even though we haven't rigorously tested all. So your approach to conflict approach is fight flight make friends uh assertive analyst to come caveman response to threat and fight it make friends with it run from and the world really does pretty much split evenly into thirds doesn't matter gender ethnicity religion nothing it's kind of a caveman environment so as an assertive naturalb born assertive I'll tend to be too blunt,

9:26 too direct. And so I wouldn't change sticking to my values or what I stood up for or what I believed in. I'd just be nicer about the way that I express.

9:38 I'd be kinder, if you will. Uh nicer, friendlier, you know, whatever word works. Mhm.

9:48 I always believed in you need to know where I'm coming from and sort of primary currency is respect. If you respect me, we could probably make a deal. Even if you don't give me the deal that I originally wanted,

10:02 if you treat me with respect, I'm going to be enormously um collaborative. And the po one of the poster children for assertives these days that everybody knows, of course, is Trump. Jeff Bezos also is is in my view is in assertive. Look at how collaborative Donald Trump is when the world's leaders show up the White House to treat him with respect. You know, he's basically uh dismissive of almost every European leader in his first term, unhappy with NATO uh for legitimate reasons. You know, we're paying their bills and they're badmouth us.

10:44 Mhm. And so he goes and meets him in meetings and he goes to Europe and you know they're not happy with the way that they treat him. But watch what happens when somebody shows up to meet him in person and treats him with respect. How enormously collaborative he is.

10:58 Yeah. And it's taken him a long time to to come to accept that. But look what just happened in the White House.

11:05 Yep. You know, he he goes and he meets Putin in Russia. The media puts all this spin. You know, Donald Trump's going in a direction of Putin's gonna give Ukraine away. Yeah. Russia's influence, but Putin's respected him enough to meet him in person.

11:22 And so the other European leaders, some of them, you know, they who was it the um the guy from Finland, and Finland has a prime minister, I think. Yeah. uh who's got to be a wacky guy because one of the quotes I read where he said, "I am uh I finished by birth southern by the grace of God cuz he went to college right in the south."

11:45 Right. Right. And he plays golf with Trump, but he plays golf with Trump and Trump feels respected by him. So the guy's got influence. So the rest of European leaders are like, "Oh, if we show up at the White House and we wear suits and we treat him with respect, he'll listen to us." Well, he serves want to be treated with respect.

12:09 What? When I left the bureau, the girl that I was dating at the time put together a uh a going away party for me, surprise party, cuz I would I was at odds with the guy that I was working for at the time, and I kind of stormed out the door. without saying goodbye.

12:25 Not you. I just like I'm out of here. I'm gone. Adios. I didn't even say adios. I just packed my and I left. And uh so she was like, you know, I got to you need to you need to go away party. And when she put it together afterwards, she said, you know, everybody I tried to contact everybody that you ever worked with. And what I noticed is every single person I spoke to told me how much they respected you. But what I also noticed is I don't remember any of them saying they liked you. And that had never been pointed out to me cuz respect was always my currency.

13:06 You might not like me, but you're going to respect me, right? And so then I wouldn't change how I did anything for me as an assertive, but I go back and I'd be nicer about it. I be kinder. I've heard other other assertives that have learned that lesson. Most of them will they'll use some term there. Be be kinder, be nicer. A a friend of mine in New York, Conrad Gomez, great dude. He says uh kind is the default game theory long-term success option. Long-term success strategy uh is kindness.

13:42 So that's for me as an assertive. Now the other two types super smart dudes they need they tend to come off as cold and distant.

13:53 Yeah. So they since they're not assertive they just need to open up in a friendlier way. Accommodators relationship hopebased people they need to be more assertive. Okay. Uh my girlfriend is an account leader. When I'm coaching her, I'm coaching her to be more assertive. So each type has a lesson that will enhance, add to enhance. Don't change enhance.

14:26 Mhm. To make you better, which is not changing who you are, right? My [clears throat] girlfriend's core values are solid. I don't want her to change her core values. I want her to be clearer with the with the people that she deals with. Okay. The analyst I don't I don't want the analyst to change their core values. You think so hard about stuff you don't you're not cold but you come off as cold which interferes with people warming up to. So that that's a really long answer for my improvement is to be nicer Kyler Feller and change. Just be nicer about how I

15:09 No, I love that. I love that. So you talked about your girlfriend. I'm going to talk about my wife. Sorry babe.

15:16 Is my girlfriend is vision impaired by the way. Really? No. I despite that She's so much better looking than I

15:25 It almost made sense, huh? You bet. Oh, okay. That explains, right? So, there's a book that sits on our coffee table at home. One book. The book is titled Never Split the Difference.

15:42 I was getting out of here. You already know what happened. I thought it's going to be a book by Damon John or something like that. I don't know.

15:48 It's on one of the side tapes. Okay. It's on one of the side tapes. But my wife reads this book so much because she says, "I need to tap into your brain because I know there are moments and your name is a verb in our household where you're bossing me." I'm like, "I'm bossing you and then she'll slap me.

16:15 You just did it again. It's my hard girl." But never split the difference. It it's deep on so many levels, right? I get it for leaders. It's my number one book. My team has to read it. You have to read that book within your first 90 days. I told you this. We your first 90 days of employment. You got to read the book because if you if you don't read the book, if you don't understand the book, you're not going to fit into our culture. We have a Chris Voss culture at all of my companies. It's great for relationships.

16:46 Yeah. It helps you start to understand people, the decisions they make, the choices that they decide upon. And I'm saying all this to say, when you were writing the book, did you know it was going to be that damn tight?

17:05 No. No. But you know, that gift. Yeah. It's It's been a gift. It's very gratifying. It's been a gift. I've been very happier with it. And I'll tell you the thing that I'm happiest most about it. To me, it's a proof of concept of human nature because the book's about collaboration

17:20 with people, trust, long-term relationships are trust where you collaborate, both people do well and are happy.

17:30 And it sells well globally, which to me says everybody in the the vast majority, not everybody in the world, but the vast majority of the world wants to collaborate. You know, we're not against each other. We're not at odds. the uh um criticism of the legacy media is legit

17:49 in that it's there to keep us divided. Yeah. And many of the social algorithms are there to feed what makes us angry and continue to feed our anger if if we're if we if we bite.

18:04 And then even if we don't bite, uh it tries to get us to bite anyway. You know, I I read I read a lot of I read a lot of reporting on President Trump mostly because I'm trying to read between the lines to see what he actually said. Yeah.

18:20 As opposed to what they're saying he said. And so because I read a lot of these, I get a fair amount of stuff fed to me. Can you believe President Trump said this? President Trump doubles down, you know, the inflammatory stuff

18:37 because they're they're they're the guessing that I want to be angry, right? I'm just trying to see what the LA actually said,

18:42 right? And so the the the majority of us don't want that, you know, the majority of us more of us want to collaborate than not. It's a legacy media and social media is designed to keep us angry and at each other's throats. M so true, so true, so powerful. And we agree on so much, right? Like I'm all about emotional intelligence. When I speak to leaders, that's who I'm there with. You've got your empathetic leadership amongst many things. Why do you think leaders today are missing the boat on it?

19:25 Um because they don't see it around them. First of all, it's not in the media. Um, it's not getting fed to the uh in entertainment. It's not in entertainment. You know, how are we picking up what social behaviors affect? You know, every movie and TV show when somebody's down and upset, somebody looks at them and says, "I know how you feel. I was the ones at the same place you were in. And the other person goes, "Oh my god, thank you. And I feel so much better." And in in real life, when you say, as soon as the words, "I know how you feel," start to come out of your mouth, the other person starts to withdraw, you there's some people that teach communication call it story stealing.

20:17 And they're like, "Hey, you know, you no, you don't know how I feel. and a circumstance you're getting ready to tell me about. It's got nothing to do with my circumstance and you get ready to give me advice and I don't want to hear it. And so we see that in the media, but in in in movies and TVs, it works. So then actually when it does work, it's invisible. Like nobody knows what happened and it's I know how you feel stuff is this this common ground nonsense. And so my latest example of white common ground is just at a wedding. Wendy and I had a wedding in Ireland recently and talking to the bride at the end of the day the wedding laid on and they have been what they've been through uh you know they go all all the way to Ireland to get married like a couple of days before they get married the church tells them they can't get married in the church cuz she's Catholic. The anulment didn't come through at time Catholic

21:15 church not going to let her walk in a door get married. And so just a couple days before they got to switch churches.

21:20 Wow. As if everything else didn't happen. And all the things like a wedding to a man is like, "Look, I got to show up. I got to stand in front of this some some religious guy. We're going to say a couple words, then we're going to we're going we're going to go get drunk, right? And they're going to make me wear a tuxedo, which is uncomfortable. I don't want to do any of that." What ain't to woman. It's women consistently say, "I've been dreaming. I've been imagining this day for 15 years. Like there ain't no man on earth that ever says that.

21:51 Yeah. Well, b for 15 years. We'll tell you till we met 15 years ago. I just trying to get a second date and you're amazing get married to me. Like it's so vastly different.

21:59 Right. Right. So I'm talking to the bride end of the day. What what the bride and groom got to do at the end of the day? They got to go they got to walk around and say hello to everybody. They're exhausted.

22:09 Like they're unconscious on their feet and they have an obligation. And this is my first conversation with her. So, she walks up to me the next night after she's got a good night's sleep. We're in a hotel restaurant. She says, "I don't know what you said to me last night. I just remember how good it made me feel." And she gives me this big hug. Now, what I said to her the night before was all empathy. And I said, "You know, you've been through hell. You're here to celebrate a union of two families. and the man that you married is there to have a part that she's got no idea.

22:48 I said, you know, and I laid out to her every single thing that she went to through, which is empathy. Now, I couldn't say I know what it's like to be a bride.

22:57 Or I can't say I know how you feel because I once got married or like there ain't no way I know how she feels. You know, I've never been a bride that never been a bride's made. Never been a maid of honor. I never had her experience,

23:11 but I laid it all out to her. And that's the magic of empathy, cuz she didn't even know what I did. She didn't remember a single word that I said. 24 hours later, not remember knowing a word that I said, she walks up to me. She feels bonded to me. She walks up to me, she gives me this great big hug, and she says, "I I don't know. Whatever you said last night, it just made me feel so good." So your original question, why don't more leaders see that? Nobody sitting around us had any idea of the emotional reaction she was giving me. There was another young lady that was front of the B pride sitting on this side of me. My girlfriend's on this side. There's a couple of other people sitting there. absolutely nobody watching has the slightest idea that I'm hitting her with this wave of empathy.

24:08 How she's connected to it, they just see like, well, you know, he he he seemed appreciative. Quick conversation. And so that's why leaders often don't see it because when somebody does it in front of you, you have no idea what just happened. That's empathy. But that's also an example of the impact that I was talking about earlier that you have on people and you're literally being yourself, right? Like you're not trying to overempathize, right? You saw the moment, you saw the need, and you you did what you were called to do in that moment without hesitation.

24:50 That's been boss. That is Spence freaking V. I you know well the the it's it's gratifying. It's I'm I'm a big believer in karma.

25:04 Mhm. And I'm I think the more of it's selfish. The more deposits I make in a karma bank, the more fun my life is.

25:13 Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. While I have you here, I can only ask you this question. And I'm kind of asking selfishly for me, but a lot of leaders truly don't understand negotiation. If I talk to a leader about negotiation, Fortune 100 Leo, their immediate thought goes to salary negotiation,

25:35 right? Every time. And I'm like, that's probably 10 on the list. What about tie? What about effort? But people don't understand that those are things that you're also negotiating. So for the leaders that are out there, I'd love for you to take a a moment and and talk about why negotiation is important for a leader and what you miss when you don't do a B.

26:03 Um cuz when you start talking about time and effort, [clears throat] what you're really negotiating with somebody is their future. Where's that time and effort going to take them? and how painful is it going to be? Like all the emotional things, but you're really asking somebody to trust you with their future. And this trust is this, you know, this bond, this sort of imaginary bond. To get somebody to trust you with their future, they got to they got to they have to feel that you understand what's important.

26:40 Not that you agreed to it. Yeah. or that you're aware of um what they're afraid of

26:52 or that you even appreciate. And so one of the things that I've been over just over the last few years, I've been I've been trying to uh uh my uh appreciation dividend has grown very high because I'm trying to remember on a regular basis to appreciate people as much as possible.

27:11 Yeah. And I would have simply from the way that I was raised, I was just expected to do a good job.

27:20 And you know, I I my father didn't show me a lot of appreciation. There was tremendous amount of love in my faith under uh it was unquestioned that I was loved unconditionally by my parents. But the model the modeling that was done for me, there wasn't a lot of appreciation. And so I just took it for being like, "Look, do your job. Do what you're asked to do. Do your job. Have integrity. Do all that stuff and just do it."

27:50 Yeah. And so I've been guilty of expecting people to just do a good job most of my life. And now as I'm showing more appreciation for the little things, I'm get people working harder and working longer hours and having having more fun

28:15 because even if there certain even if their future's uncertain, if I'm appreciating them in a moment, they're there for me. And so all these little intangibles that were not modeled for me well the vast majority of my life I always had a lot of support. I was always lucky enough to have a tremendous amount of support from people and from people and the bureau uh a vast majority of the people I work for gave me massive amounts of support. Not a lot of appreciation and so the the success was supposed to be his own reward doing a good job and in many cases it was but that was for me person I'm very hard working I believe in working really really hard.

29:04 I don't think uh I think expectations leaders should should think about what do I expect? What kind of behavior do I expect? And maybe am I coming off as cold or uncaring unintentionally because I'm not. And so I I think that's I think that's what leaders miss out on a fair amount of them. Totally agree. I totally agree. I'm going to get you out of here on this Chris. again all the things we have in common, right? Leadership. We both love our significant others, right? We both love the New England Patriots on the boat.

29:44 Hold on. Can I phone a frame? I had to figure out how to weave that one in here. Let Let me get Eli on the phone.

29:52 Who was that? Eli. Who? I don't want to. Eli's comment. What was it? You know, couple of Super Bowls.

29:59 English. It's English. Professor S. But we both love bourbon. Yeah. Amen. Our good friend Nick Nattton told the story. Every time you guys got together, he's got a fru bottle glass of wine. You've got a bourbon. And so he said, "Hey, we should start a bourbon together." Right.

30:24 How the hell does that happen, bro? Yeah. You know, that's kind of um Nick is a classic guy who has a pretty good game plan to figure stuff out.

30:37 Yeah. He really understands implement implementation. He understands teamwork. He's a great marketing and sales guy. He's fun to be around

30:46 and he's he's always fun to be around. And that's really kind of how it happens when when he threw out that idea. if I didn't know him already. U and we're uh in the event Chicago, we were there for strategic coach and Nick and I both get coached. That's strategic coach Dan Sullivan.

31:03 Mhm. And one of Dan's rules is if somebody comes up to him and says, "I got a great idea." Dan turns on his heels and walks away because usually people with a great idea have no idea how to implement. They think a great idea is enough. And you know,

31:16 Damon and the Shark Tank crew have openly said on Shark Tank, a great idea might be worth $20. Yeah,

31:23 cuz there's no implementation. You would have already done it. You don't have to tell someone you've got a great idea, Sheldon.

31:28 You just did. You just did it. Right. So Nick is the opposite. He's already got a game implementation game plan. What he tells you about what he wants to do. M and so and it didn't even occur to me the necessary element that we would have to add to our team if we want to do a bourbon would be Roy Milner who's a Louisville bourbon insider

31:51 a sherper if you will. Yeah, we need a sherpa. And as it turned out, I'm tell I'm explaining Sherpas to Roy and Roy goes, "Yeah, that's she's crazy. That's the name of my company." So Nick's a marketing guy, Nick's a design guy, Nick's a team guy. You know, I they're bringing me in because she wants to design the branding around Never Split the Difference.

32:15 Yeah. And I would have thought that would have been enough, but Nick is smart enough to bring in Roy,

32:23 who's the Louisville insider. He's got credibility with these people. They know him. They trust him. He knows his way around the industry. He's got great taste and he finds this this spec these spectacular hidden gems of bourbon that was available and abandoned by a large corporation because there wasn't enough of it for global retail run but there was this small amount that was perfect for us

32:56 and as turned out it was it's this extraordinary blend that has won all these awards. Mhm.

33:02 So the serendipity with the right people coming together and working our tails off and we launch this thing and then we get to meet people like you,

33:15 right? And we get to find out that all these values that we share of regular hardworking people that love having a good time and making really cool stuff happen. And that's kind of how the bourbon comes to be.

33:31 I I'm telling you, one, and I'm putting this on film, it's on audio. It's everywhere. I've said it before. The best bourbon I've ever had, hands down. By far the best bourbon I've ever had, hands down. But the shareholder society, that tight-knit group of people, it's a family. I mean, in in our messaging and email chains, everyone's helping each other out. Hey, I've got a question about this or does anyone know someone over here, and within 5 minutes, you'll see 20 people coming to the rescue or Percy and then when we're together, it's as if we're long lost family and and we're just catching up with each other. To me, that's the attraction. This society, the bourbon's great. But that tight-knit community, that tight-knit family, second to none.

34:27 Yes. From people group. Absolutely. Yay. I'm glad I'm glad that you and Nick happen to be sitting next to each other on an airplane or something like that. Right.

34:36 And we were flying from Vegas supposed to be going to Dallas. You know, Nick immediately he's asleep on the flight, right? So he's sitting next to me. I'm like, who's this rude guy that's just eye mask on and everything? We get routed to Austin because there's tornadoes in Dallas. Ah. So we land, Nick wakes up, starts getting ready to get up. I'm like, "Hey, dude, you probably just want to hang out for a minute. We're in Austin." He's like, "What?" I'm like, "Yeah, we got routed. There's storms in Dallas. We don't know if we're going to get to leave." And a long story short, we shared the difference for 4 hours on the tarmac in Austin, Texas.

35:17 And I was hooked ever since then. And that's how I got to know about the society. And I told Nick that moment like I'm in like you. He explained the bond, no pun intended, right? He explained everything that the found that the society was about the mission that you all had. And at that moment, I said, "That's a no-brainer. This is who I am as a person." All the values that I have are right there inside. Yeah, that's cool. as brother I love you genuinely thank you for all the things that you have done in my life the conversations the push just thank you for being who you are brother thank you mutual I appreciate that

36:04 yes sir ladies and gentlemen the vosir the vapure yeah you've been plugged into mick unplugged. Don't just listen, take action. Rate and subscribe, follow me on social, and get the full experience at mickhuntofficial.com. Keep building, keep leading, and most importantly, keep dominating.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Never Split the Difference: Life Lessons with Chris Voss"?

Mick Hunt (Host), Chris Voss (Guest).

What is "Never Split the Difference: Life Lessons with Chris Voss" about?

The discussion centers on the deeper motivations that drive individuals, particularly focusing on Chris Voss's perspective on purpose and fulfillment beyond superficial reasons. Voss emphasizes the importance of helping others recognize their potential and believes that anyone can achieve extraordinary feats, underscoring the gratification he derives from facilitating personal growth in others.

What is mentioned in this Mick Unplugged Podcast episode?

13 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Chris Voss, Never Split the Difference, Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), Trust, collaboration, Nick Nattton. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Never Split the Difference: Life Lessons with Chris Voss"?

The episode runs 37 min; the transcript is about 6,020 words in 99 timestamped sections.

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