Trump FLAILS To Turn Around His BOTCHED Presidency

What this episode is about

The discussion focuses on Donald Trump's weakened political stance as he approaches 2025, highlighting questionable actions during his presidency, including pardons for controversial figures. The conversation also covers the recent Democratic electoral victories and upcoming primary challenges, while incorporating a satirical examination of controversial public figures.

Key takeaways

• Trump's pardon list reads like a rogue's gallery: pirates, fraudsters, and even a trafficker get a pass.
• Ration your dolls, pencils optional! Trump's affordability act is truly the Marie Antoinette strategy.
• The 37-doll obsession: Trump’s economic fixations are as perplexing as his punctuation.
• Pardon the paradox—Trump holds a golden pen for pardons yet advocates for doll austerity.
• Teleprompter tales: Is Trump's open defiance of scripted speeches part of his charm or a strategy?

Who speaks in this episode?

• John Favreau (Host)
• Dan Feifer (Host)
• Dasha Burns (Guest)

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: affordability, Susan Susie Wilds, Donald Trump, Donald Trump
2. 10:00 – 20:00: Tariffs, inflation, Simply Safe, Simply Safe
3. 20:00 – 30:00: Immigration, Wild Alaskan, affordability, AP Poll
4. 30:00 – 40:00: Democrats, Republican, Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett, Discharge Petition
5. 40:00 – 50:00: Republican, Republican Party, Democrats, Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett
6. 50:00 – 1:00:00: Bombas, Bombas, Pod Save America, Pod Save America
7. 1:00:00 – 1:10:00: Al Qaeda, Amy Lynn Bradley, Afghanistan, Healthcare
8. 1:10:00 – 1:20:00: Celia Maduro, Venezuela, Congress, strikes
9. 1:20:00 – 1:30:00: National Security Strategy, Mass migration, dominance, Ukraine
10. 1:30:00 – 1:31:50: Pod Save America, Pod Save America, Pod Save America, Congressman Adam Smith

Notable quotes from "Trump FLAILS To Turn Around His BOTCHED Presidency"

• Yeah, there's one. There's one. Oh, what about the drug kingpin? Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm John Favro.

  about Pod Save America · at 0:21

• Struggling Americans to know that he sees you, he hears you, and he feels your pain. President Donald Trump, who launched a much hyped and anticipated affordability blitz this…

  about Donald Trump · at 1:20

• Trump to this point in the first term of other presidents because we keep using this as a first term. The real comparison point is second term and the comparison point here is…

  about Immigration · at 9:16

• The economy was good and so you and I know this from looking at focus groups in 2009 2010 that when voters who are feel true economic pressure and are truly worried about their…

  about inflation · at 15:49

• Work. The longer term issue here is that Trump's numbers suck on all these issues, but still on almost every issue except healthcare, abortion, and climate change. Generically, voters trust Republicans more than Democrats.

  about Healthcare · at 30:57

• Texas. She is now officially in. Colin Allred has dropped out. meaning that Crockett's main opponent will be James Telerico. Republicans are acting like they were dying to have…

  about Texas Senate · at 38:12

• Break, you'll hear my conversation with Adam Smith. But two things before we get to that. In case you missed it, Pod Save America's coming to New Zealand and Australia. What do you think, Dan?

  about Pod Save America · at 54:26

• Like they released their national security strategy, Trump and Hexath Pentagon. And it's very explicit by talking about a Trump correlary to the Monroe Doctrine.

  about National Security Strategy · at 1:21:15

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Donald Trump — Person · Main speaker · 10 mentions · first at 0:00
  Central figure discussed in the podcast, focusing on his political actions and policies.
• Donald Trump — Person · 10 mentions · first at 0:00
  Struggling Americans to know that he sees you, he hears you, and he feels your pain. President Donald Trump, who launched a much hyped and anticipated affordability blitz this…
• John Favro — Person · Host · 1 mention · first at 0:23
  Co-host of Pod Save America, leading the discussion.
  Yeah, there's one. There's one. Oh, what about the drug kingpin? Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm John Favro.
• Congressman Adam Smith — Person · Guest · 5 mentions · first at 1:10
  Top Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee, discussing Trump's military actions.
  A segment that will be followed by my conversation with a very serious member of Congress, Adam Smith, who's the top Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee and…
• John Favreau — Person · Host · 2 mentions · first at 0:25
  Introduces topics, leads discussion with co-host, and conducts the interview with Adam Smith.
  Yeah, there's one. There's one. Oh, what about the drug kingpin? Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm John Favro.
• Dan Feifer — Person · Co-host · 2 mentions · first at 0:27
  Co-host of Pod Save America, contributing to the discussion.
  I'm Dan Feifer. Dan Feifer in studio for this momentous pod.
• Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett — Person · Referenced expert · 10 mentions · first at 0:53
  Democratic candidate for Texas Senate, discussed in the context of upcoming elections.
  It's also temperament. Yeah. And Jasmine Crockett and James Heler are both like right in line with the median and Democratic member of Congress, elected official. Like she is like she is often.
• Barack Obama — Person · Referenced comparison figure (former president) · 2 mentions · first at 5:51
  Used as a benchmark for presidential approval comparisons and as an anecdotal reference (traveling with Obama; rally-introduction hypothetical).
  Also, I cannot imagine anything worse than being at a rally with Barack Obama where he introduced me because he wanted to let everyone know that he hasn't read anything on the prompter. Never does.
• Joe Biden — Person · Referenced expert · 6 mentions · first at 9:08
  Former president mentioned in comparisons to current political figures.
  Plan is not as good as Bernie's and then we'll all yell about we then had a process that ended up in Joe Biden becoming the nominee and that the party's position was that we're going to strengthen the affordable care act right.
• Susan Susie Wilds — Person · 3 mentions · first at 2:34
  I'm going to send my message directly to Susan Susie Wilds. Why else chief of staff? This was perfect. No notes. Make no changes. The hoax thing. It works.
• Steven Miller — Person · Referenced administration figure (Trump adviser) · 3 mentions · first at 6:19
  Cited as emblematic of hardline/white-nationalist-adjacent policy influence, especially on immigration and rhetoric; invoked as a source of speech content.
  That it is people seeing the videos and they I think that they are scared. And also Donald Trump and Steven Miller are not going to give that part up and I don't think that we…
• James Telerico — Person · Referenced expert · 2 mentions · first at 0:53
  Opponent of Jasmine Crockett in the Democratic primary for Texas Senate.
  Texas. She is now officially in. Colin Allred has dropped out. meaning that Crockett's main opponent will be James Telerico. Republicans are acting like they were dying to have…
• Barack Obama — Person · Referenced expert · 2 mentions · first at 5:51
  Former president mentioned in comparisons to current political figures.
  Also, I cannot imagine anything worse than being at a rally with Barack Obama where he introduced me because he wanted to let everyone know that he hasn't read anything on the prompter. Never does.
• Nick Fuentes — Person · Referenced expert · 2 mentions · first at 49:01
  White nationalist figure discussed in the context of political debates.
  Fuentes appeared this week on Piers Morgan show on Monday night and it yielded this exchange. Just to clear up one of the many theories about you. I have no idea what the answer is and you.
• Ross Albrech — Person · Referenced individual (pardon example / rally anecdote) · 1 mention · first at 1:05:56
  Mentioned in two contexts: (1) 'Ross' as a speechwriter introduced at a Trump rally; (2) later as 'Ross Albrech' tied to the Silk Road pardon discussion. The transcript spelling likely conflates/typos 'Ross Ulbricht'.
  Convicted or sorry, the convicted former president convicted drug dealer from Honduras, also pardoning Ross Albrech, the Silk Road crypto guy who was convicted of laundering…
• Blaine & Robert Trump — Person · 10 mentions · first at 0:00
  Are we gonna find out the Donald Trump pirate? It's like a variety of everyone that you could imagine. It's do you not like sex traffickers? Well, he freed one of those. What about the.
• Barack Obama — Person · Referenced comparator / anecdotal figure · 3 mentions · first at 5:51
  Used as a benchmark for presidential approval trajectories and as an anecdotal contrast about speechwriting/introductions; also referenced in a travel story by the hosts.
  Also, I cannot imagine anything worse than being at a rally with Barack Obama where he introduced me because he wanted to let everyone know that he hasn't read anything on the prompter. Never does.
• Barack Obama — Person · Referenced comparator / anecdotal reference · 3 mentions · first at 5:51
  Used as a benchmark for presidential approval comparisons and as an anecdote about introducing staff at rallies; also referenced regarding 2009-2010 economic perceptions.
  Also, I cannot imagine anything worse than being at a rally with Barack Obama where he introduced me because he wanted to let everyone know that he hasn't read anything on the prompter. Never does.
• Barack Obama — Person · Referenced comparator (former president) · 3 mentions · first at 5:51
  Used as a comparison point for presidential approval dynamics and as an anecdotal reference about rally behavior and travel.
  Also, I cannot imagine anything worse than being at a rally with Barack Obama where he introduced me because he wanted to let everyone know that he hasn't read anything on the prompter. Never does.
• Barack Obama — Person · Referenced comparator (former president) · 3 mentions · first at 5:51
  Used as a benchmark for presidential approval trajectories and as a point of contrast in political messaging and historical context.
  Also, I cannot imagine anything worse than being at a rally with Barack Obama where he introduced me because he wanted to let everyone know that he hasn't read anything on the prompter. Never does.
• Barack Obama — Person · Referenced comparator / former president · 3 mentions · first at 5:51
  Used as a benchmark for presidential approval trajectories and as a contrast in rally/speechwriting anecdote; also referenced in travel story by host.
  Also, I cannot imagine anything worse than being at a rally with Barack Obama where he introduced me because he wanted to let everyone know that he hasn't read anything on the prompter. Never does.
• Barack Obama — Person · Referenced comparator / historical example · 3 mentions · first at 5:51
  Used as a benchmark for presidential approval comparisons and as an anecdote about rally dynamics and speechwriting.
  Also, I cannot imagine anything worse than being at a rally with Barack Obama where he introduced me because he wanted to let everyone know that he hasn't read anything on the prompter. Never does.
• Barack Obama — Person · Referenced former president (comparison point / anecdote) · 3 mentions · first at 5:51
  Used as a benchmark for approval comparisons and as an anecdote about introducing staff; also referenced in hosts’ travel story.
  Also, I cannot imagine anything worse than being at a rally with Barack Obama where he introduced me because he wanted to let everyone know that he hasn't read anything on the prompter. Never does.
• Barack Obama — Person · Referenced comparator / anecdote subject · 3 mentions · first at 5:51
  Used as a benchmark for presidential approval and as an anecdote about rally dynamics; also referenced re: 2014 Australia trip.
  Also, I cannot imagine anything worse than being at a rally with Barack Obama where he introduced me because he wanted to let everyone know that he hasn't read anything on the prompter. Never does.
• George W. Bush — Person · Referenced expert · 3 mentions · first at 9:25
  Former president mentioned in comparisons to current political figures.
  Other presidents because we keep using this as a first term. The real comparison point is second term and the comparison point here is George W. Bush and right about this time…
• Barack Obama — Person · Referenced comparator (former president) · 2 mentions · first at 5:51
  Used as a benchmark for presidential approval trajectories and as an anecdotal contrast in rally/speechwriting discussion; also referenced in travel anecdote by host.
  Also, I cannot imagine anything worse than being at a rally with Barack Obama where he introduced me because he wanted to let everyone know that he hasn't read anything on the prompter. Never does.
• Barack Obama — Person · Referenced comparator / anecdotal reference · 2 mentions · first at 5:51
  Used as a benchmark for presidential approval comparisons and as an anecdote about introducing staff at rallies; also referenced re: a 2014 Australia trip.
  Also, I cannot imagine anything worse than being at a rally with Barack Obama where he introduced me because he wanted to let everyone know that he hasn't read anything on the prompter. Never does.
• Tucker Carlson — Person · Referenced expert · 2 mentions · first at 49:07
  Discussed in the context of media influence and political debates.
  Nationalist anti-semite misogynist who famously had dinner with Trump and more recently was invited on Tucker Carlson show for a softball interview setting off on a intramaga debate about how nice they should be to white nationalists.
• Dasha Burns — Person · Referenced journalist (interviewer) · 1 mention · first at 1:38
  Named as the Politico journalist interviewing Trump in a clip used to illustrate his affordability messaging and self-grading.
  Here's Trump speaking to Politico's Dasha Burns. And then at a rally in Pennsylvania, I wonder what grade you would give.
• George Herbert Walker Bush — Person · Referenced comparator (past president) · 1 mention · first at 9:27
  Used as the key historical analogy for a second-term approval collapse (“massive nose dive and never comes back”).
  Comparison point is second term and the comparison point here is George W. Bush and right about this time George W. Bush takes a massive nose dive and never comes back. And…
• Elon Musk — Person · Referenced expert · 1 mention · first at 11:41
  Discussed in the context of political influence and controversies.
  Yeah, that's true. Elon Musk today did say that every these liberals are advocating a white genocide. So that's Yeah, I think he would probably But I will say that like he.
• Kilimar Orbrego Garcia — Person · Referenced detainee / immigration enforcement case · 1 mention · first at 22:48
  Cited as an example in the discussion of immigration enforcement and alleged shaky trafficking charges; referenced in relation to a federal judge ordering release.
  Was heckled by audience members and left early, right around the same time that a federal judge ordered the release of Kilimar Orbrego Garcia from the detention facility in…
• Dr. Jack Abbott — Person · 1 mention · first at 26:01
  Real that was happening, which was an influx of immigrants that came to the southern border. And then because of people like Greg Abbott and Ronda Santis were transported to…
• Caroline Levit — Person · 1 mention · first at 35:38
  And minimum payments. Trump's basically been a passive bystander on all this though Caroline Levit said on Thursday we'll all be hearing from him on this quote very soon. Sure…
• Hakeem Jeffries — Person · Referenced Democratic leader · 1 mention · first at 35:46
  Discussed regarding House Democratic posture on discharge petitions to extend ACA subsidies; used to illustrate strategic choices for Democrats as a check on Trump.
  This knowing that the president like they want a check. They don't necessarily want they're not expecting Hakee Jeff and the Democrats to solve all of their problems. They want…
• Josh Godheimer — Person · 1 mention · first at 35:55
  These discharge petitions and Democrats lining up behind it. I think one of I think the one-year extension one is came from Josh Godheimer, Democrat from New Jersey and now has like 62 people that have signed onto it. But Hakee Jeffrey said.
• Mike Johnson — Person · 1 mention · first at 37:23
  Yeah. Then Mike Johnson will bring it up, right? Then you don't need the discharge petition.
• Marjorie Taylor Green — Person · 1 mention · first at 47:27
  Out there and this has happened, the cracks are showing and like this combined with Marjorie Taylor Green and the Epstein files and all and it's like it's all of a piece here…
• Andrew Tate — Person · Referenced expert · 1 mention · first at 51:44
  Controversial figure discussed in the context of political influence.
  Is. Yeah. Speaking of toxic manosphere influencers, you see the Times story about the Tate brothers, how Andrew Tate and his brother were freed from Romania after getting close…
• Donald Trump Jr. — Person · 1 mention · first at 51:48
  About the Tate brothers, how Andrew Tate and his brother were freed from Romania after getting close to Don Jr. and Baron Trump who's he gives Andrew Tate holds zooms with Baron presumably to give him dating advice.

Books & papers

• Star Wars — Book · 1 mention · first at 1:30:45
  Conversation with JB Pritsker about the Ice Madness in Chicago redistricting and the best and worst Star Wars movies. I'm excited for That was very important to him to love it.…

Companies & orgs

• ICE — Company · Business focus · 1 mention · first at 1:06:10
  Mentioned in the context of immigration policies and enforcement.
  With the tariffs, what he's trying to do with ICE, terrorizing all of our communities, sending troops into our cities to engage in domestic law enforcement, all the programs…
• House Armed Services Committee — Company · Business focus · 1 mention · first at 1:13
  Mentioned in the context of political discussions and military policies.
  A segment that will be followed by my conversation with a very serious member of Congress, Adam Smith, who's the top Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee and…
• Federal Reserve — Company · Referenced · 1 mention · first at 6:54
  Mentioned in the context of Trump's economic policies and rate cuts.
  Obviously wasn't enough for him. He said the quarter point cut should have been twice that size and called his Fed chair, Jerome Powell, a stiff man he appointed. on Thursday…
• FIFA — Company · Referenced entity · 11 mentions
  Mentioned in the context of Trump's pardons and corruption investigations.
  Crypto guys. Did you see that Trump the Trump Department of Justice dropped the investigation against the FIFA corruption people right after Trump got his.
• Pentagon — Company · 3 mentions · first at 55:47
  Yeah. And she talks to Nancy Ysef, one of the journalists who gave up her Pentagon press pass rather than deal with Pete Hegath's new rules.
• US Congress — Company · Referenced expert · 2 mentions · first at 35:46
  Mentioned in discussions about legislative actions and political strategies.
  Probably not. the good thing about that is we got something in there that says the United States Congress doesn't approve of what you're not doing. Okay.
• CBS — Company · Referenced · 1 mention · first at 8:46
  Mentioned in the context of a poll about Trump's focus areas.
  And they see him focus on everything else is right. CBS had this poll a couple weeks ago which asked people what do you want Trump to focus on most?
• NATO — Company · Referenced expert · 1 mention · first at 1:20:05
  Mentioned in discussions about international relations and military alliances.
  Get rid of all of that. And that's why he's more on Putin's side in Eastern Europe than he is on Ukraine's. Putin wants to grab Eastern Europe. That's fine. I got my thing.…
• WGBH — Company · 3 mentions
  Trump has decided now he's going to punish collectively. And like and the one of the clients that the WGBH talked to, which is the local affiliate in Boston, she's a Haitian…
• Washington Post — Company · 2 mentions · first at 22:17
  Legitimate target or is it the individuals that are the legitimate target you know much has been made of oh the Washington Post saying that heath gave an order to kill…
• New York Times — Company · 2 mentions · first at 52:47
  I had word from the Trump administration that they're on top of things. Mr. Tate wrote to someone close to him in a message reviewed by the New York Times.
• Politico — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:38
  Here's Trump speaking to Politico's Dasha Burns. And then at a rally in Pennsylvania, I wonder what grade you would give.
• US News and World Report — Company · Referenced · 1 mention · first at 19:00
  Mentioned as naming Simply Safe Home Security as the best home security system.
  Named best home security systems by US News and World Report for 5 years.
• House Homeland Security Committee — Company · 1 mention · first at 22:40
  Yes. meanwhile, Christine Gnome appeared at a House Homeland Security Committee hearing on Thursday, where she was heckled by audience members and left early, right around the same time.
• Senate Democrats — Company · 1 mention · first at 35:03
  Conclusion that this could be a political problem for them in the midterms, but not enough to just vote for the Senate Democrats proposal to extend the subsidies for three years.
• House Democrats — Company · 1 mention · first at 37:55
  That. Democrat Eric Gistler flipped a state house district that Trump carried by 12 points. now the DC, which is the House Democrats campaign arm, says it's adding five more…
• Senate Republicans — Company · 1 mention · first at 38:23
  Telerico. Republicans are acting like they were dying to have Crockett in the race all along. The Senate Republicans campaign committee actually tried to take credit for making…
• CNN — Company · 1 mention · first at 38:30
  Tried to take credit for making it happen by circulating a poll favorable to Crockett over the summer. Crockett responded to this on CNN. Let's take a listen. I am the one that…
• Wire Cutter — Company · 1 mention · first at 57:08
• State Department — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:11:40
  Saw the New York Times story from this week that said when they rescued those survivors, the Pentagon lawyers reached out to the State Department lawyers and asked if they…
• Pod Save America — Company · 6 mentions · first at 0:25
  Yeah, there's one. There's one. Oh, what about the drug kingpin? Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm John Favro.
• Runaway Country — Company · 2 mentions · first at 55:40
  Also if you haven't checked out Runaway Country with Alex Wagner yet, what are you doing? It's great. she this week she's been joined by three incredible guests to dig into the chaos at the Pentagon. she talks to.
• Fed — Company · 2 mentions
• Warner Bros. Discovery — Company · 2 mentions
• Lehman Brothers — Company · 1 mention · first at 14:55
  A historically famous political gaff that John McCain made right as like as Lehman Brothers was collapsing in 2008.
• House Homeland Security Committee — Company · 1 mention · first at 22:40
  Yes. meanwhile, Christine Gnome appeared at a House Homeland Security Committee hearing on Thursday, where she was heckled by audience members and left early, right around the same time that a federal judge ordered the release.
• Kaicare — Company · 1 mention · first at 27:01
  Do you see Kyle Tharp's newsletter Kaicare? He just did a post where he went through the most viral events of 2025 political events. And ICE in immigration is sort of right smack in the middle as one of the absolute.
• crooked.com — Company · 1 mention · first at 55:35
• crooked.com/events — Company · 1 mention · first at 55:35
• Wire Cutter — Company · 1 mention · first at 57:08
• Meet the Press — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:01:52
  Yeah. No, that was absolutely not happening. And then he had this line during his meet the press interview. I forget the exact word he used. He said something They didn't look…
• YouTube (as podcast distribution) — Company · 1 mention
• YouTube (platform) — Company · 1 mention

Products & tech

• Pod Save America — Product · Broadcast · 6 mentions · first at 0:23
  The podcast being analyzed, discussing political topics and current events.
• Runaway Country — Product · Media Product · 2 mentions · first at 55:40
  A media product recommended during the podcast.
  Also if you haven't checked out Runaway Country with Alex Wagner yet, what are you doing? It's great. she this week she's been joined by three incredible guests to dig into the chaos.
• crooked.com/events — Product · 1 mention · first at 55:35
• All-American Road Show — Product · 1 mention · first at 54:44
  Okay. well, we're calling this one the hopefully just visiting tour. Emily said that's a little too close to home. She was a little worried about that.
• Silk Road — Product · Incidental · 2 mentions · first at 53:47
  Mentioned in passing in the context of Trump's pardons.
  Convicted or sorry, the convicted former president convicted drug dealer from Honduras, also pardoning Ross Albrech, the Silk Road crypto guy who was convicted of laundering…
• Silk Road — Product · Incidental · 2 mentions · first at 53:47
  Mentioned in passing in the context of a pardon.
  Honduras, also pardoning Ross Albrech, the Silk Road crypto guy who was convicted of laundering billions of dollars in drug money. It doesn't seem consistent. So, what I think…
• socks — Product · 6 mentions
• Bombas socks — Product · 4 mentions
• teleprompter — Product · 2 mentions · first at 5:03
  I haven't read practically anything off this stupid teleprompter.
• tanker — Product · 2 mentions · first at 1:07:46
  Just interdict these boats? Particularly since I guess we just seized a Venezuelan oil tank or an oil tanker off the coast of Venezuela. Like why can't you just do that with the drug boats?
• Bombas slippers — Product · 2 mentions
• suit — Product · 2 mentions
• Venezuelan oil tanker — Product · 2 mentions
• AI-powered cameras — Product · 1 mention · first at 18:48
  Double layer of defense. If someone edges towards your door or a ground floor window, AI powered cameras pick it up and live agents start talking right then so the person knows…
• white fish — Product · 1 mention · first at 20:04
  I've been using it. It's awesome. I've had the salmon. I've had the white fish.
• green card — Product · 1 mention · first at 29:36
  To, which is the local affiliate in Boston, she's a Haitian woman in her 50s and she's had her green card since the early 2000s. She has been working to get her citizenship in…
• Aura Frame — Product · 1 mention · first at 56:44
  Can even preload photos before it ships and keep adding from anywhere. Upload unlimited photos and video to your Aura Frame for free. Just download the Aura app and connect to…
• Aura app — Product · 1 mention · first at 56:46
  And keep adding from anywhere. Upload unlimited photos and video to your Aura Frame for free. Just download the Aura app and connect to Wi-Fi. It only takes about 2 minutes to…
• Carver Mat frames — Product · 1 mention · first at 57:06
• slippers — Product · 1 mention · first at 57:30
  Overload everywhere. But one feeling we're still chasing, cozy. And Bombas has the socks, slippers, and basically everything to get you there. There's something weirdly…
• ankle sock — Product · 1 mention · first at 57:40
  Energy into everything from slippers with sinking cushioning to the perfect fitting ankle sock. And that feeling, it doesn't stop after one wear. It keeps going. They've got…
• running socks — Product · 1 mention · first at 57:48
  Gifting questions, too. what do you get your son's new marathon training girlfriend? You get the running socks that have sweat wicking and impact cushionings. Your neighbor's…
• baby Bombas — Product · 1 mention · first at 57:53
  That have sweat wicking and impact cushionings. Your neighbor's fussy newborn. You get the baby bombas that fit like a hug and are designed to feel soft and stay snug on even…
• Bombas slides — Product · 1 mention
• slides — Product · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

• Healthcare — Concept · Core topic · 6 mentions · first at 14:16
  Discussed as a key issue in the political landscape and Trump's policies.
• Immigration — Concept · Core topic · 15 mentions · first at 10:57
  Central theme discussing Trump's policies and public perception.
• Tariffs — Concept · Economic policy · 8 mentions · first at 8:41
  Discussed as a significant policy under Trump's administration affecting the economy.
  Unhappy because prices are high. They think Trump is not only not lowering the prices, they fully believe he is raising them. They correctly believe that because of tariffs. Yeah.
• inflation — Concept · 6 mentions · first at 7:19
• National Security Strategy — Concept · 6 mentions · first at 1:21:15
• affordability — Concept · Core topic · 11 mentions · first at 1:30
  Discussed as a key issue in the political landscape and Trump's policies.
  Court overturned row in June before the election that changed the dynamics of the election. It would have to be something on that level to actually change how people feel and…
• dominance — Concept · 3 mentions · first at 1:06:06
  That idea. We can influence events and the US should play a role, but we need to get rid of the no pure competitor. We must dominate because it's just not going to happen. we…
• Ice King — Concept · Core topic · 1 mention · first at 1:06:12
  Mentioned in the context of immigration enforcement and Trump's policies.
  Kaicare? He just did a post where he went through the most viral events of 2025 political events. And ICE in immigration is sort of right smack in the middle as one of the…
• Monroe Doctrine — Concept · Core topic · 1 mention · first at 1:21:22
  Mentioned in the context of Trump's foreign policy and national security strategy.
  Security strategy, Trump and Hexath Pentagon. And it's very explicit by talking about a Trump correlary to the Monroe Doctrine.
• Al Qaeda — Concept · Core topic · 4 mentions · first at 1:03:07
  Mentioned in the context of US military actions and the post-9/11 world.
  At the US capital when it happened and was how did this happen? How can we prevent it going forward? We basically decide okay there are armed organized groups that are trying…
• AP poll — Concept · Core topic · 3 mentions · first at 7:38
  Mentioned in the context of Trump's approval ratings and public opinion.
  One year ago. I'm sure it was just a coincidence that the statement came right after the release of a new AP poll that has Trump's overall approval at just 36%. Oof w and his…
• Silk Road — Concept · Core topic · 2 mentions · first at 53:47
  Mentioned in the context of a convicted drug dealer and Trump's pardons.
  President convicted drug dealer from Honduras, also pardoning Ross Albrech, the Silk Road crypto guy who was convicted of laundering billions of dollars in drug money. It…
• NATO — Concept · Core topic · 2 mentions · first at 1:23:22
  Mentioned in the context of Trump's foreign policy and international relations.
  Like what Iran has done in the Middle East they're going to prosper. So I think we need to be engaged from a place of humility cooperation and working together. And then the…
• Isis — Concept · Referenced concept · 1 mention · first at 1:03:56
  Mentioned in the context of post-9/11 military actions and terrorism.
  Somalia. They've got Al Qaeda in the land of the Islamic Mcgreb, which is basically West Africa. And then you got ISIS and then you've got subgroups and it metastasized into…
• Antifragility — Concept · 2 mentions
• Cognitive Biases — Concept · 2 mentions
• Cold Exposure — Concept · 2 mentions
• Compound Interest — Concept · 2 mentions
• Deep Work — Concept · 2 mentions
• First Principles Thinking — Concept · 2 mentions
• Incentive Design — Concept · 2 mentions
• Intermittent Fasting — Concept · 2 mentions
• Lindy Effect — Concept · 2 mentions
• Moore's Law — Concept · 2 mentions
• Network Effects — Concept · 2 mentions
• Pareto Principle — Concept · 2 mentions
• Power Law — Concept · 2 mentions
• Second-Order Thinking — Concept · 2 mentions
• Stoicism — Concept · 2 mentions
• Zone 2 Training — Concept · 2 mentions
• Republican — Concept · 22 mentions · first at 13:43
  That seriously. and they immediately g assign agency to him for all of their problems. And he and the Republicans are paying the price for it right now.
• Democrats — Concept · 20 mentions · first at 0:46
  Started and what that means as we head into a big election year. We'll also talk about the big wins Democrats scored in Tuesday's elections and look ahead to the midterms…
• House — Concept · 20 mentions
• Republican Party — Concept · 16 mentions · first at 13:43
  That seriously. and they immediately g assign agency to him for all of their problems. And he and the Republicans are paying the price for it right now.
• Congress — Concept · 12 mentions · first at 1:10
  A segment that will be followed by my conversation with a very serious member of Congress, Adam Smith, who's the top Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee and…
• Senate — Concept · 8 mentions · first at 0:50
  In Tuesday's elections and look ahead to the midterms, specifically the Democratic primary for Texas Senate in March, which will pit Jasmine Crockett against James Telerico.…
• Discharge Petition — Concept · 6 mentions · first at 35:13
  The Republican alternative proposals in the Senate. There's some momentum in the House right now on discharge petitions to force votes on various extension proposals. There's one proposal to extend the subsidies for two years.
• strikes — Concept · 6 mentions · first at 48:58
  Very serious conversation with Congressman Adam Smith about Trump's illegal strikes in the Caribbean. We've been talking a lot on the show about Nick Fuentes, the dedicated…
• 2026 — Concept · 6 mentions
• 2028 — Concept · 4 mentions

Places & events

• midterms — Event · 5 mentions · first at 0:46
  Started and what that means as we head into a big election year. We'll also talk about the big wins Democrats scored in Tuesday's elections and look ahead to the midterms…
• Texas Senate — Event · Key topic · 2 mentions · first at 0:50
  Discussed in the context of upcoming Democratic primary and its implications for the midterms.
• Democratic primary — Event · 4 mentions · first at 0:50
  In Tuesday's elections and look ahead to the midterms, specifically the Democratic primary for Texas Senate in March, which will pit Jasmine Crockett against James Telerico.…
• 2026 midterms — Event · Future focus · 2 mentions · first at 0:41
  Upcoming political event discussed in the context of Democratic strategies.
  It's adding five more Republican held seats to its target list for 2026. and a bunch of Democrats deciding it's a good year to run for office are launching primary campaigns…
• AP Poll — Event · Data source · 3 mentions · first at 7:38
  Mentioned as a source of polling data on Trump's approval ratings.
  One year ago. I'm sure it was just a coincidence that the statement came right after the release of a new AP poll that has Trump's overall approval at just 36%. Oof w and his…
• discharge petitions — Event · 3 mentions · first at 35:11
  That vote failed on Thursday, as did all the Republican alternative proposals in the Senate. There's some momentum in the House right now on discharge petitions to force votes…
• redistricting — Event · 3 mentions · first at 45:54
  Threatening Indiana Republicans with primaries and a loss of federal funding if they don't gerrymander their maps to squeeze out a few more Republican seats in time for the…
• Ukraine — Place · Setting · 3 mentions · first at 1:18:30
  Mentioned in the context of Trump's foreign policy and comparisons to Putin's actions.
  Mentioned I was at the Reagan Defense Forum, the whole peace through strength thing. if we are in fact on Ukraine's side in that war, which we should be, then what Trump is doing is he's showing surrender through weakness.
• Australia — Place · 2 mentions · first at 54:33
  Okay. well, we're calling this one the hopefully just visiting tour. Emily said that's a little too close to home. She was a little worried about that.
• Texas — Place · Setting · 1 mention · first at 41:52
  Location of the discussed Senate race.
  Launching primary campaigns right and left. we talked last week a little bit about how Jasmine Crockett was expected to jump into the Senate race in Texas. She is now…
• Russia — Place · Setting · 1 mention · first at 1:20:02
  Mentioned in the context of Trump's foreign policy and comparisons to Putin's actions.
  Notion that's what you're trying to get rid of all of that. And that's why he's more on Putin's side in Eastern Europe than he is on Ukraine's. Putin wants to grab Eastern…
• Venezuela — Place · Setting · 7 mentions · first at 0:19
  Mentioned in the context of immigration and foreign policy.
  Well, speaking of those other two survivors from another strike in October, clearly the policy had changed.
• NATO — Place · Setting · 4 mentions
  Mentioned in the context of US foreign policy and international alliances.
• World War II — Event · Core topic · 3 mentions · first at 1:06:54
  Mentioned in the context of international law and US foreign policy.
  Difficult. We need to do better. But Trump is taking to us a taking us to a place that we haven't been since the end of World War II, which is the US doesn't have principles. It just has interests.
• prisoner exchange — Event · 2 mentions · first at 0:18
  What about the murder we brought back from Venezuela prisoner exchange?
• Boston — Place · 2 mentions · first at 28:55
  Trump has decided now he's going to punish collectively. And like and the one of the clients that the WGBH talked to, which is the local affiliate in Boston, she's a Haitian…
• Florida — Place · 2 mentions · first at 42:31
  We absolutely have to bring that make them at least competitive because if Republicans start with all of the upper Midwest all the deep south plus Texas and Florida, they're…
• Romania — Place · 2 mentions · first at 51:46
  Influencers, you see the Times story about the Tate brothers, how Andrew Tate and his brother were freed from Romania after getting close to Don Jr. and Baron Trump who's he…
• New Zealand — Place · 2 mentions · first at 54:32
  Break, you'll hear my conversation with Adam Smith. But two things before we get to that. In case you missed it, Pod Save America's coming to New Zealand and Australia. What do you think, Dan?
• Afghanistan — Place · 2 mentions · first at 1:03:43
  At the US capital when it happened and was how did this happen? How can we prevent it going forward? We basically decide okay there are armed organized groups that are trying…
• Honduras — Place · Setting · 2 mentions · first at 1:05:56
  Mentioned in the context of a pardon and political discussions.
  He's a Trump guy. So here, $40 billion, we love you. In Honduras, he's got an election, so he wants to influence that election to go his way.
• Canada — Place · Setting · 2 mentions · first at 1:06:31
  Mentioned in the context of Trump's foreign policy and annexation discussions.
  Western Hemisphere. Let's not forget the plans to invade Greenland and Panama and annex Canada. This is the complete detonation of any principled foreign policy by the United States of America.
• Colombia — Place · Setting · 2 mentions · first at 1:18:14
  Mentioned in the context of Trump's foreign policy and drug trafficking.
  He's a Trump guy. So here, $40 billion, we love you. In Honduras, he's got an election, so he wants to influence that election to go his way.
• Lehman Brothers collapse — Event · 1 mention · first at 14:53
  Yes. Which is for people who don't know a historically famous political gaff that John McCain made right as like as Lehman Brothers was collapsing in 2008.
• House Homeland Security Committee hearing — Event · 1 mention · first at 22:40
  Yes. meanwhile, Christine Gnome appeared at a House Homeland Security Committee hearing on Thursday, where she was heckled by audience members and left early, right around the same time.
• Middle East — Place · Setting · 1 mention · first at 1:23:54
  Mentioned in the context of Trump's foreign policy and military actions.
  Engaged in the world in the right way is a positive thing. If we disengage then brutal aggressive autocrats like Putin like what Iran has done in the Middle East they're going…
• Miami — Place · Setting · 20 mentions
  Location of a discussed mayoral race.
  Quote, I've been told I'll be free soon, but Trump needs to see me in Miami, he added. And then the whole story is about how they got close to the Trumps. And so basically Trump like obviously there's.
• Pennsylvania — Place · 5 mentions · first at 1:42
  Here's Trump speaking to Politico's Dasha Burns. And then at a rally in Pennsylvania, I wonder what grade you would give.
• World War — Event · Core topic · 3 mentions · first at 1:06:56
  Mentioned in the context of international law and US foreign policy.
  Understanding here. And after World War II, we said, Yeah, that's not working out very well. World War after World War after World War, the last one killed like 75 million…
• Mexico — Place · Setting · 3 mentions
  Mentioned in passing in the context of immigration and border discussions.
• Alaska — Place · 2 mentions · first at 20:24
  There. we have to play the win there in the short term because we kind of need Texas, right? Like maybe you can pull it off with Iowa or Alaska if you're lucky, but like we…
• Norway — Place · 2 mentions · first at 21:38
  We had a meeting and I say why is it we only take people from hole countries, right? Why can't we have some people from Norway, Sweden, just a few?
• Sweden — Place · 2 mentions · first at 21:38
  We had a meeting and I say why is it we only take people from hole countries, right? Why can't we have some people from Norway, Sweden, just a few?
• Indiana — Place · 2 mentions · first at 45:56
  In time for the midterms. Well, Trump has failed. right before we recorded, the Republican controlled state senate killed the measure 31 to9 with more Republicans voting against redistricting than for it. were you surprised.
• Greenland — Place · Setting · 2 mentions · first at 1:06:29
  Mentioned in the context of political discussions and international relations.
  Law in the country, but also over the Western Hemisphere. Let's not forget the plans to invade Greenland and Panama and annex Canada. This is the complete detonation of any principled foreign policy by the United States of America.
• Brisbane — Place · 1 mention · first at 55:26
  The then there's three cities in Australia after that. Melbourne on the 13th of February, Brisbane on the 14th of February and Sydney on the 16th of February. Tickets are on…
• Sydney — Place · 1 mention · first at 55:29
• Yemen — Place · 1 mention · first at 1:03:47
  Let's go get it. But then they've got affiliates. They've got AQAP in Yemen. They've got al-Shabaab in Somalia. They've got Al Qaeda in the land of the Islamic Mcgreb, which is basically West Africa. And then you got.
• El Salvador — Place · 1 mention · first at 1:11:43
  Lawyers reached out to the State Department lawyers and asked if they could send them to SECOT in El Salvador or basically anywhere but the United States where if they entered…
• Argentina — Place · 1 mention · first at 1:18:41
  To assert that control. And Maduro is not playing ball. And you can see, the I can't pronounce the guy's name in Argentina. but he's a Trump guy. So here, $40 billion, we love you. In Honduras, he's got an election, so he wants to.

Media & podcasts

• Pod Save America — Media · Host platform · 6 mentions · first at 0:23
  The podcast platform where the discussion takes place.
• AP Poll — Media · Referenced · 3 mentions · first at 7:38
  Cited as a source showing Trump's low approval ratings on the economy and immigration.
  One year ago. I'm sure it was just a coincidence that the statement came right after the release of a new AP poll that has Trump's overall approval at just 36%. Oof w and his…
• US News and World Report — Media · Referenced · 1 mention · first at 19:00
  Cited as naming Simply Safe Home Security as the best home security system.
  Of lines, but your home needs lines that don't get crossed. The line between outside and inside. Simply Safe delivers real security by acting early to help stop crimes before they start.
• Breaking Bad — Media · 3 mentions
• Game of Thrones — Media · 3 mentions
• Inception — Media · 3 mentions
• Joe Rogan Experience — Media · 3 mentions
• Rick and Morty — Media · 3 mentions
• Stranger Things — Media · 3 mentions
• Runaway Country — Media · 2 mentions · first at 55:40
  Also if you haven't checked out Runaway Country with Alex Wagner yet, what are you doing? It's great. she this week she's been joined by three incredible guests to dig into the chaos.
• Netflix documentaries — Media · 2 mentions
• YouTube channels — Media · 2 mentions
• Runaway Country with Alex Wagner — Media · Referenced media · 1 mention · first at 55:40
  Mentioned as another podcast under the same network.
  It's a fantastic episode. I just listened to it this morning. It's so good. so tune in to Runaway Country now on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

Sponsors

• Wild Alaskan — Product · Sponsor product · 4 mentions · first at 19:32
  Product promoted by the sponsor Wild Alaskan Company.
  Go to wildalaskan.com/crooked for $35 off your first box of premium wildcaugh seafood. That's wildalaskan.com/crooked for $35 off your first order. Thank you.
• Simply Safe — Product · Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at 18:24
  Parent company of Simply Safe Home Security, providing home security solutions.
  Of lines, but your home needs lines that don't get crossed. The line between outside and inside. Simply Safe delivers real security by acting early to help stop crimes before they start.
• Wild Alaskan Company — Product · Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at 19:32
  Mid-episode sponsor segment promoting delivered wild-caught seafood with a discount URL and guarantee.
  Supports healthy oceans and fishing communities. It's nutrient-rich and full of flavor. Wild Alaskan fish is frozen off the boat to lock in and taste texture and nutrients like omega-3s.
• Wild Alaskan Company — Product · Sponsor · 4 mentions · first at 19:32
  Sponsor of the podcast, promoting wild-caught seafood delivery.
  Don't know exactly if you can trust it kind worry it's too fishy. You what if you get caught in traffic? Well, with Wild Alaskan Company, you can get wild caught perfectly portioned nutrient dust seafood delivered directly to your door.
• Bombas — Product · Sponsor · 4 mentions · first at 57:23
  Sponsor of the podcast, promoting socks and apparel.
  For every pair of Bombas you purchase, Bombas donates one on your behalf to someone facing homelessness. So, anytime you get something cozy, someone else does, too. I love Bombas. Genuinely wear.
• Simply Safe — Product · Sponsor (brand shorthand) · 3 mentions · first at 18:24
  Same sponsor as 'Simply Safe Home Security' referenced as the brand name and tagline; includes CTA URL.
  So which mean the vast majority of people had jobs. They had a existential fear of losing their jobs. Today's presenting sponsor is Simply Safe Home Security. Every time you…
• Simply Safe Home Security — Product · Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at 18:24
  Sponsor of the podcast, promoting home security solutions.
  So which mean the vast majority of people had jobs. They had a existential fear of losing their jobs. Today's presenting sponsor is Simply Safe Home Security. Every time you…
• Aura Frames — Product · Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at 56:13
  Sponsor ad read promoting digital photo frames with promo code and discount URL.
  Pod Save America is brought to you by Aura Frames. If you're a last minute shopper, you know the feeling. Shelves are empty and ideas are running low. But Aura Frames is the solution with a gift.
• Simply Safe Home Security — Product · Sponsor · 1 mention · first at 18:24
  Sponsor ad read promoting SimpliSafe home security system with discount and URL.
  Of lines, but your home needs lines that don't get crossed. The line between outside and inside. Simply Safe delivers real security by acting early to help stop crimes before they start.
• Aura Frames — Product · Sponsor · 1 mention · first at 56:13
  Sponsor of the podcast, promoting digital photo frames.
  Gift, you can add a message before it arrives. You can't wrap togetherness, but you can frame it. For a limited time, save on the perfect gift by visiting orura frames.com to…
• Simply Safe — Company · Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at 18:24
  The company behind the Simply Safe Home Security product advertised in the podcast.
  Traditional systems wait for glass to break. Simply Safe works outside with a double layer of defense. If someone edges towards your door or a ground floor window, AI powered cameras pick it up and live agents start talking right.
• Wild Alaskan Company — Company · Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at 19:32
  Sponsor of the podcast, promoting their seafood delivery service.
  Don't know exactly if you can trust it kind worry it's too fishy. You what if you get caught in traffic? Well, with Wild Alaskan Company, you can get wild caught perfectly portioned nutrient dust seafood delivered directly to your door.
• Simply Safe Home Security — Company · Sponsor · 1 mention · first at 18:24
  Sponsor of the podcast, promoting their home security system.
  Of lines, but your home needs lines that don't get crossed. The line between outside and inside. Simply Safe delivers real security by acting early to help stop crimes before they start.
• SimpliSafe — Sponsor · 14 mentions
• Bombas — Sponsor · 4 mentions · first at 57:25
  Pod Save America brought to you by Bombas. This time of year, it's sensory overload everywhere. But one feeling we're still chasing, cozy. And Bombas has the socks, slippers, and basically everything to get you there. There's.
• Wild Alaskan Company — Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at 19:32
  And lock in your discount. There's no safe like Simply Safe. Podsafe America is brought to you by Wild Alaskan Company. If you want to make fish, you got to like plan your whole day around it. You got to go to the supermarket.
• Simply Safe Home Security — Sponsor · 1 mention · first at 18:24
  People had jobs. They had a existential fear of losing their jobs. Today's presenting sponsor is Simply Safe Home Security. Every time you turn on the news, somebody's crossing…
• Aura Frames — Sponsor · 1 mention · first at 56:14
  Pod Save America is brought to you by Aura Frames. If you're a last minute shopper, you know the feeling. Shelves are empty and ideas are running low. But Aura Frames is the solution with a gift that feels personal. You always struggle.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Are we gonna find out the Donald Trump pirate? It's like a variety of everyone that you could imagine. It's like, do you not like sex traffickers? Well, he freed one of those. What about the people who stormed the capital? He freed them. What about just a your your standard issue fraudster who just like, you know, defrauded hundreds of thousands of people and senior citizens? Freed them, too.

0:18 What about the murder we brought back from Venezuela prisoner exchange? Yeah, there's one. There's one. Oh, what about the uh the drug kingpin? Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm John Favro.

0:27 I'm Dan Feifer. Dan Feifer in studio for this momentous pod. H how lovely. It's great when Dan comes to town. We're all on our best behavior. Um on today's show, we're going to talk about how Trump is ending 2025 in a much weaker political position than he started and what that means as we head into a big election year. We'll also talk about the big wins Democrats scored in Tuesday's elections and look ahead to the midterms, specifically the Democratic primary for Texas Senate in March, uh which will pit Jasmine Crockett against James Telerico. Then we'll answer the question that's probably been on no one's mind. Which womenhating Nazi influencer is actually a virgin?

1:06 A segment that will be followed by my conversation with a very serious member of Congress, Adam Smith, who's the top Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee and undoubtedly psyched that he agreed to appear on this show. Uh but let's start with the man who wants struggling Americans to know that he sees you, he hears you, and he feels your pain. President Donald Trump, who launched a much hyped and anticipated affordability blitz this week, where he humbly acknowledged our economic reality and pledged to fight harder for the people who sent him back to Washington.

1:38 Here's Trump speaking to Politico's Dasha Burns. And then at a rally in Pennsylvania,

1:42 I wonder what grade you would give. A+ A+. Yeah. A++. The chief of staff and she's fantastic. She said, "Uh, we have to start campaigning, sir. I said, "I won. What do I have to do already?" They said, "We have to win the midterm. It's a hoax." They use the word affordability and that's their only word. They say, "Affordability." And everyone says, "Oh, that must mean Trump has high prices." You know, you can give up certain products. Uh, you can give up pencils. You don't need $37 for your daughter. Two or three is nice, but you don't need $37.

2:26 More Trump. Get him out on the trail. Dan, what' you think? What' you think of that performance?

2:34 I'm going to send my message directly to Susan Susie Wilds. Why else chief of staff? This was perfect. No notes. Make no changes. The hoax thing. It works.

2:42 Hoax things works. It doesn't get enough attention, but rationing is a good political strategy.

2:47 Or telling people how much of things certain things should have. Maybe get into what they should eat or not eat.

2:52 Maybe maybe tell them to eat cake. as an instance. Why do you think he keeps bringing up the dolls? He's got a real fixation with the dolls. This is like the third time he's done a ration the dolls message.

3:03 Yeah, there's I feel like he's like used the number 37 before too. Yeah, I think he's he he this originally was triggered by the report about increased toy prices for the holidays and he just, you know, he keeps going back to the well. He doesn't have a lot of new material here.

3:16 Um and the pencils were rationing pencils. Do people use pencils still? They do, John. I know the kids don't read anymore, so I wasn't sure if they used pencil. I thought pencils went away a long time ago.

3:26 I mean, I don't know. I mean, my second grader uses pencils. I guess we I guess Charlie and Teddy Crayons.

3:33 Crayons. You can have How many crayons do you get? Are we making those here? One per color of the rainbow.

3:38 Anything we're not making here, you don't get anymore, right? I don't think we make crayons here. It is wild that the man who just fired uh an architect um for his ballroom because he couldn't make it big enough and fast enough as he's like gold leafing everything in the White House is telling people they don't need more than four doll three dolls. Three dolls maximum.

4:01 If you were trying to find the best message to lose an election, this would be it.

4:07 I just It's wild. Um, clearly he's excited to be there. You can tell. Yes, he was very He's excited to be on this affordability tour. I wonder how many more we'll get. It's December 11th. It's like too soon. I wish the affordability tour had started in like September of 2026. That's what I would I wish I wish we could get this event there because no one's going to remember this by then. But like, do you think it changes?

4:30 I think we'll get more. You think we'll get more? I don't think it's going to get better.

4:33 I don't think he I do not think he can give a compelling affordability message. I think it is he is psychologically constitutionally incapable of doing that

4:42 because it requires him to admit that prices are high. To admit prices are high means to admit fault,

4:48 right? He has never admitted fault in his life. He's not going to start. Now, there aren't a lot of 80-year-olds who all of a sudden develop introspection.

4:56 One other sound bite um from the rally really hit home for me. Um can you guys play the clip?

5:01 I haven't read practically anything off this stupid teleprompter. Love you. And then my speech writers get they're getting awards for some of the finest speeches. And I haven't even read the AND THE AWARD FOR THE finest writer in the history of speech making. Ross, where are you? Ross, are you here? Ross, look. First time I've ever introduced him. Ross, get over here. I got to very low-key guy. So shy, I can't believe it.

5:31 There's a lot to unpack there, Dan. There is. Um, first of all, what speechw writing awards are his speech writers getting?

5:39 I just Are you just jealous because you never got one? Yeah. Where was my award?

5:43 None of us got any award. Maybe Love it got it. Maybe I didn't know. He didn't.

5:48 Also, I cannot imagine anything worse than being at a rally with Barack Obama where he introduced me because he wanted to let everyone know that he hasn't read anything on the prompter. Never does. And he doesn't understand why his speech writers are getting awards because that's the kind of stuff he said behind the scenes.

6:07 That's right. That's right. Not publicly. That was wild. Poor Ross, whoever you are.

6:14 And you know what? I have no sympathy for Ross. No. Uh, do we think that Ross is actually writing any of these speeches or they just go through the Steven Miller LLM? Uh, and then they get on to the teleprompter and then Trump sort of uh, ignores the boring which is the stuff that Susie Wilds wants him to say, some of the more fy sounding which is what Steven Miller puts in there, and then he just does the weave.

6:36 Is it extra painful that Ross, whoever he may be, uh, gets this award the same week we were snubbed for a Golden Globe?

6:44 Yeah. Wow. things. It's We're really getting hit hard this week. Tough week for us. Yeah.

6:51 Um back in Washington, uh Trump did get another he got a little present. He got another rate cut from the Fed, but it obviously wasn't enough for him. He said the quarter point cut should have been twice that size and called his Fed chair, Jerome Powell, a stiff man he appointed. Uh on Thursday, he posted another whiny complaint blaming the American people's dissatisfaction with the economy on the American people. always smart politics. Uh here's the post. Quote, "When will I get credit for having created with no inflation perhaps the greatest economy in the history of our country? When will people understand what is happening? When will polls reflect the greatness of America at this point in time and how bad it was just one year ago." Uh I'm sure it was just a coincidence that the statement came right after the release of a new AP poll that has Trump's overall approval at just 36%. Oof w and his approval on the

7:46 economy at just 31%. That is the lowest it's ever been in either of his two terms as president. 67% disapprove of his handling of the economy. Obviously, we don't like to put too much stock in a single poll, but we're reading this one because it's fun. And also, it is roughly in line with most of the polls we're seeing right now. I think his average overall approval in the average of all the polls is 42%. So, not much higher. Uh, what do you make of it? What do you make of this poll? And, uh, is Trump in serious trouble here, or is this just copium?

8:20 This is not copium, John. Wow. Like, even if you were to say that this poll is a bit of an outlier, that's a little worse for Trump than the other ones. All of the polls have told are telling the same story. Trump is losing political al altitude fast. Voters are very unhappy with the economy. They're unhappy because prices are high. They think Trump is not only not lowering the prices, they fully believe he is raising them. They correctly believe that because of tariffs. Yeah.

8:42 And they see him focus on everything else is right. CBS had this poll a couple weeks ago which asked people what do you want Trump to focus on most?

8:52 They said interior decorating. They said higher prices. Interior decorating was a distant 900th. And they asked him what do you think he's focused most on? What came in last there? Inflation. And so he like this is he's in a very very bad spot here. And he is less popular than Biden was at that point. And you can like much less popular than Obama was at this point. But all of those polls keep comparing Trump to this point in the first term of other presidents because we keep using

9:20 this as a first term. The real comparison point is second term and the comparison point here is George W. Bush and right about this time George W. Bush takes a massive nose dive and never comes back. And Trump I think Trump's in real danger of that because he seems has no interest in solving the problem that people care most about and really no ability to do so. And he's not going to benefit from this looming re-election campaign that will recoales his coalition out of opposition to the other side. And so like

9:54 or re-energize him because he doesn't have his presidency on the line or his livelihood or like his freedom as he did last time. nor does he fully understand clearly how bad it is. Though I don't know that Thursday post where he's like when when are people gonna get it, it might be starting to creep in that he's not as popular as he was at the beginning of this year. Um it is also funny that the only time he does focus on the economy or talk about the economy, it's when he speaks about his most unpopular policy, which is the tariffs,

10:24 which in that in that um Pennsylvania rally, he once again said, "It's my favorite word. I love that word. It's beautiful." the tariffs are making us rich. Like just the he has become more out he's always been out of touch, but he's become more out of touch in this last year than I've ever seen him.

10:41 Yeah. I mean I think it's fair to say like he's obviously out of touch in the sense that he is a man who has a gold toilet. So but he has had

10:47 but he he's had a feel for a gut instinct for the grievances of a subset of Americans and that has powered his political rise. Like he was preient on immigration uh and people's reaction to that. He obviously understood the border, but now he is not out traveling with people. He's not talking to other politicians around the country as he travels. He really only hangs out with rich tech billionaires and a bunch of obsequious staffers who are just tell him how great he is all the time

11:18 and a few white nationalist freaks. Yeah. Who are say that's redundant with what I just said. No, somebody like in the ven diagram over you got the billionaires, you got the the grifter obsequious staffers who just want and and there's some overlap there. Yeah. And then you've got like the Steven Miller. Yeah. You got and the you know the the

11:36 white nationalist but some of the like some of the white nationalists might be the some of the tech people.

11:41 Yeah, that's true. Elon Musk today did say that um that every these liberals are advocating a white genocide. So that's Yeah, I think he would probably

11:50 um But I will say that like he uh he doesn't have the other challenge he has is there's not a lot of levers for him to pull.

11:58 No. No. And he also needs an enemy and he needs a plausible villain in his story. And the problem with affordability is he doesn't have a plausible villain because he he can blame Joe Biden, but like that's not working because everyone understands that Joe Biden is long gone from the White House. and no one believes that it's Joe Biden's economy anymore or very few people. Um, Democrats in Congress aren't stopping him from anything because we don't have power there. So, he lo he loses that enemy and he doesn't want to go after corporations or rich people um because they're his only friends. And so, it's like what I guess Jerome Powell is his villain.

12:40 Yeah. Like who what is what do you even do if you're Trump? I mean, you could change your message.

12:48 Change your change your tariff policy. Change your message. You could take you could resend all the tariffs. Now, that is not going to immediately lower all prices,

12:55 right? It is I think it's just worth just focusing on the fact that it is actually a tremendous political feat

13:02 that most people blame Trump for the economy right now because he did not inflation was here before he got here.

13:10 Right. But I think that's I think it's mainly because the tariffs. Exactly. because the tariffs, which is, you know, we've talked about this before, but voters give newly elected presidents a pretty long leash to solve the problem they were elected to solve.

13:21 When Obama was running, we were in midway into a re-election campaign and a majority of voters still blamed George W. Bush for the state of the economy more than Obama. We are 10 months in and because Trump said, "Thank you for electing me. I promise to lower your prices. My first act is I'm going to raise all your prices." And voters took that seriously. and they immediately g assign agency to him for all of their problems. And he he and the Republicans are paying the price for it right now.

13:46 Yeah. And it did just keep getting worse because it was like, I'm going to raise all the prices. I'm going to fire tons of people. All you heard about the first couple months was just him firing federal workers. And not everyone's a federal worker, but still that's what you heard in the headlines. Then there was the tariffs. Then there was um you know, I uh I hate the idea of stopping premium hikes so much that I'm willing to keep the government closed over it. I don't think that helped him either. Um, there was Oh, there was passing his big legislation that was a giant tax cut for the rich paid for by cutting people's healthcare.

14:17 Yeah, it's really been a banner year for him. The thing he's getting the most attention for is things like demolishing the White House to build a ballroom, right? Re decorating the White House in gold.

14:28 Jet, don't forget the crypto scam. All of this comes together and like this is their hope and prayer. like James Blair who's the White House political director I think or deputy chief professor something like that he did an interview the other day and he said things are going to get better because he said just because they should commit a political gaff every single day that the fundamentals in the economy are strong.

14:48 I heard that. Yes. Which is for people who don't know a historically famous political gaff that John McCain made right as like as Lehman Brothers was collapsing in 2008. But the argument is

15:00 one of the worst gaps of the the 2008 general election. It's one of the worst gaffs of the last 40 years in politics. It's up there with 47%. Now, I will say giving yourself an A++ plus on the economy right here is worse than all of those combined. And that should be in 1 million ads all the time. It's a thing that people will remember because as you and I know, right? Like there is this idea. I'm just gonna diverge here for a second because it's never too

15:25 I think I know where you're going. Vibes space. I'm so there like the like there is this very dumb idea that really circulated a lot in the Biden presidency that the econ people's impressions of the economy is vibe based and so if the president says the economy is great voters will then believe them and like the president like the economy more and then like the president more and this kind of came because Trump talked up the economy in 2017 and people like the economy but that's also because the economy was good and so you and I know this from looking at focus groups in 2009 2010 that when voters who are feel true economic pressure and are truly worried about their financial situation are told that the economy is better than they think it is, they want to flip the table over in the focus group. And so giving yourself an A++ is just sticking your thumb in the eye of every voter. And it's not to say

16:15 that people's impressions of the economy are solely based on the economic statistics as they are and that other considerations vibes if you will don't play into your perception of the economy. But when the person who's supposed to be in charge of the country is the one telling you the one that the person that you that you put into office or at least are you know has been elected into office and and job it is to take care manage the economy. Um, when that person tells you, "No, no, no, actually everything's great." You're going to be angry. It's not going to for all the people who said that like, "Oh, Joe Biden should have just talked up the economy." And it wasn't just that Joe Biden should talk the economy. All of us, all of us were supposed to pretend, right? All the dem Democrats in Congress, all of us pundits, everyone, we were all supposed to just talk every day talk about the great statistics and that was going to

17:04 make everyone think, well, Donald Trump is doing that now and has been doing that for last several months. and his economic approval rating has taken a dive. So, I thought he was magic in the first term and Donald Trump was great at this and he was such a showman and a marketer. Why isn't it working this time? Because it's based on people's perceptions of their own financial position. Now, you got me going.

17:24 It's also important if we find out that some families are spending too much money on milk, we should scorn them on Twitter.

17:30 Yeah. or or we can't talk about gas prices because uh those bad journalists, those mean journalists stood in front of a gas station that was had artificially high prices. And

17:41 you can maybe alter how people feel about the macroeconomy, but the microeconomy, how it affects your life. And the idea of a vibes-based economy or that you can tell people that reality is not reality in a time of inflation is impossible because they every day they go to the grocery store, they go to the gas station, they get their utility bill, they see how their bank account changes.

18:01 And in fact, it's harder than um if there's high unemployment. Yeah. Because inflation affects more people than unemployment. Not having a job probably affects you a lot more than having to pay a little more for groceries, but it affects more people for sure. Even in the peak of the great recession, the unemployment rate under Obama was like 10 11%. Yeah.

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21:23 Uh 38 approved, 60 disapproved. Also a new low for him. also not stopping him from hammering his favorite issue in the most racist way possible. Uh here he is again during that Pennsylvania event.

21:34 We had a meeting and I say why is it we only take people from hole countries, right? Why can't we have some people from Norway, Sweden, just a few? Let us have a few. We always take people from Somalia, places that are a disaster, right? Filthy, dirty, disgusting, ridden with crime. the only thing they're good at is going after ships.

21:58 It's it is a small point, but I think an important one that he and the White House and various Republican senators like Tom Cotton vigorously denied that story about him calling them hole countries in the meeting for the last several years and then he just of course admitted it.

22:15 Yeah. It's like justice for Josh Dossi, the Washington Post reporter who originally reported that,

22:19 right? It's like did we uh did did we think that the Trump people were telling the truth back then? No. know, we didn't think it, but they're liars. It just it's nice to know that they are liars, that we're right about that.

22:28 Yeah, it's an interesting dynamic. It's a difference between Trump 1.0 and 2.0, which is 1.0, all this was behind closed doors, and they were embarrassed to say it out loud. Here you hold a rally to shout at the top of your lungs.

22:37 Yes. Um, meanwhile, Christine Gnome appeared at a House Homeland Security Committee hearing on Thursday, where she was heckled by audience members and left early, uh, right around the same time that a federal judge ordered the release of Kilimar Orbrego Garcia from the detention facility in Pennsylvania where he was being held while he awaits trial on very shaky human trafficking charges. And today during the uh, Chrissy Nome hearing, Seth Magaziner, Democratic congressman, uh, was like, "Oh, how many veterans have you deported?" And she's like, "We haven't deported veterans."

23:07 And then he pops up on a screen has a a veteran uh who they just recently deported legal resident. So uh classic he really wants and you could tell because this is the only part of the rally he got really excited about was doing the whole countries thing. He could tell he was losing the crowd. You could tell it was pretty boring. He they even had charts up. He knew the charts were boring. He was like, "Oh, these charts are playing so well, so I'm going to throw up another one." Then you could tell he got to the immigration stuff, which wasn't in the prompter, of course.

23:38 Bad news, Ross. Some someone's at the awards committee. So, so he just went, you know, went went rogue and started uh doing his his racist countries bit. And you can tell he just really wants to make next year's elections about immigration again. Worked for him in 24, didn't so much work for him in 18, 20, 22. Um, you know, we just talked about how it's very hard for him to ever get to an affordability message that matches how people are feeling. Um, and so I assume he will try to make make next year about immigration, about crime, all his favorites. What do you think about his ability to do that? I think it's pretty limited because, you know, I think in in the common imagination, we think he made 2024 about immigration and immigration certainly was a part of that campaign, but I went back and looked at the exit polls

24:24 and more people listed abortion as a number one issue than immigration. Only 12% listed immigration. Uh number one issue in that was actually democracy at 34% which is a little strange, but basically point is the he he won

24:37 like we didn't win that one. That's right. Well, I think democracy is some people they said they it was a number one issue. They didn't say they liked Yeah, that's right. Exactly.

24:44 Um, but there it was a it was an issue. The thing I think it's going to be very hard for him to make it bigger than the economy affordability in any way, shape or form. Just it would have to be the only like we were headed in 2022 inflation was about to be the most important issue and then the Supreme Court overturned row in June before the election that changed the dynamics of the election. It would have to be something on that level to actually change how people feel and to raise the science of immigration. I don't think it's just something Trump can do on his own through rallies and truce and even like White House policy proclamations have to be something like sort of a massive national galvanizing event that would change that.

25:25 I also think and he goes on to say this as he's talking about immigration. He's like my team told me don't talk about the border cuz uh you know you already why we already fixed the border. it's fixed and now I'm not even getting credit for it. And the truth is, however he did it, like the border crossings are almost zero.

25:42 Yeah. And so in the past, especially when Biden was president, people's um uh people's disapproval of Biden on immigration was related to something real that was happening, which was an influx of immigrants uh that came to the southern border. And then because of people like Greg Abbott and Ronda Santis were transported to cities all over the country who then struggled uh with their own finances to try to care for a lot of these migrants. And so it was a real thing

26:15 now. And the reason so you see he's like on on the border he's still plus two in the AP poll but then immigration is -22. The deportation regime is a flop politically. I mean it's horrific. We've talked about that all year. like morally horrendous, but it is also deeply unpopular and ev and it is something that is uh that almost everyone is aware of because I do think that these videos that have been circulating social media and everywhere um have been in people's feeds and people's phones all year and they're horrific because it's people see US citizens, legal residents, kids, even undocumented immigrants who don't seem like they pose any threat whatsoever just being tackled, abused, harassed, detained, teargassed. Pepper balls. I mean, it's just a disaster for them.

27:00 Do you see Kyle Tharp's newsletter Kaicare? He just did a post where he went through the most viral events of 2025 political events. And ICE in immigration is sort of right smack in the middle as one of the absolute biggest ones because it is it breaks through. It travels on social. People are aware of it. And ultimately, Trump is doing a very bad job and going too far to solve a problem that people really are not as focused on as he thought they were.

27:24 Yes. And I I would also say like if I was devising a message for a Democratic candidate, you know, like 70% of it is 75% of it is cost of living, healthcare, like hammering on hammering Trump on those issues, corruption, like in that bucket. But I would not forget to talk about what he is doing on immigration.

27:46 And how would you do that? And I would talk about the deportations and I would talk about the US citizens that are being rounded up and I would talk about the violence against protesters. How about the people who have been disappeared? Um, and I think that it is people seeing the videos and they I think that they are scared. And also Donald Trump and Steven Miller are not going to give that part up and I don't think that we can be I don't think it's going to work to be only economy while they're only immigration. I'm think we're going to have to join that fight and we shouldn't be afraid of it.

28:17 Um, and I think these numbers bear that out. the fact that it went from one of his strongest issues and crime by the way was which for a while it was okay well people don't like the deportations but he still has he's so strong on crime so we shouldn't talk about the deployments and the takeover of DC and all that stuff that's unpopular as well also not saying it's like the top issue the thing we should be talking about all the time but like it's a it's a big deal to people um I I I saw over I don't know if you saw this over like last last week two weeks ago who knows there's that story about um an immigration naturalization ceremony.

28:50 Yeah. And it was at um it's happening all over the country according to this report, but this one was at Faniel Hall of all places in Boston

28:58 and people are lined up and they have now to become a citizen the legal way, the right way. This is part of the challenge takes years. You have to meet all kinds of requirements, pass all kinds of tests. And finally, these people are waiting in line to take the oath to become citizens of the United States. and federal agents come and pull them out of line because they are part of the 19 countries that Trump has decided now he's going to punish collectively. And like and the one of the clients that the WGBH talked to, which is the local affiliate in Boston, um she's a Haitian woman in her 50s and she's had her green card since the early 2000s. She has been working to get her citizenship in this country, done everything right since the early 2000s. and she gets to the ceremony and they pull her out of line.

29:49 You cannot tell me that that is an that that if if most people in this country heard about that story, they wouldn't be outraged. I would put it at 70 85%. Maybe 70. Um and so like I just think that those are the kind of stories that I think Democrats should be telling. Now I think we have a lot of work to do ourselves on like well what would you do? What would your immigration system look like? For sure. And I think that's, you know, more of a 28 issue than a 26 issue, but it's out there. Um, but I would not I would not run away from this issue.

30:20 Yeah. I don't think you there's this, I think, idea that you decide what the single best issue is. You only talk about that to the exclusion of all other things happening on the planet. And you that just is not how the world works. It's not how like you're going to go to you're going to campaign, you're going to get asked questions at town halls, you're going to be in a debate, you're going to get asked questions there, you're going to have to respond to things happening in your community as a candidate. Most of the people a lot of people are talking about our members of Congress. They have to talk about all these things. Like you just this idea that like we've figured out affordability is the issue. We're only going to talk about affordability. It's the exclusion of anything else. You bring up anything else we're going to say. It's a distraction from affordability. That's just not how human

30:56 talk and humans Yeah. work. The the longer term issue here is that Trump's numbers suck on all these issues, but still on almost every issue except healthcare, abortion, and climate change. Generically, voters trust Republicans more than Democrats.

31:12 Yeah. Well, that's a and affordability. Yeah. That one is like basically even which

31:18 which is crazy but you know I mean there's a long conversation in there too about Democrats being too reticent on calling for the tariffs to be repealed for a whole host of

31:28 very bizarre outdated inacronistic political reasons. But like that that's part of it is that we have no like there's a simple answer to how we would lower costs right away um that we're too many Democrats are not running on. And I think it's um it's not uh it's not this isn't an ideological thing because I think that Democrat it's I think it's a consequence of Democrats just not knowing what we stand for and what the basic universal values are that drive our party because it's like we on immigration it's like people are afraid to be too uh to be seen as too um loose on immigration like we don't want to be seem like open borders but then at the other side we don't want to be too strict right and we're we're afraid to say anything about enforcement.

32:11 And so we're just sort of like reactive. Same thing on on cost and affordability. It's like well are there small things that we can talk about um because we don't know how far we want to go and we don't have any like big ambitious policies on affordability. Um and so like I do think that we kind of have to figure out like what does the country want? What does it look like if we take power? And not just from like an individual policy perspective, but like how do we feel about the economy and affordability? Like what should what what is what is the American dream that is achievable for people that should be achievable for people and what do we want to do about that? You know, like we haven't had that debate in

32:49 I don't know how long. Well, I think that's what the 2028 primary is. Like it's just right now it's like what's Democratic

32:53 Well, last time it was last last time we did this it was I would say we did a great job last time.

32:56 Yeah. let's everyone uh talk about how here's Bernie's Medicare for all plan and let's how every have everyone else talk about how their Medicare for all plan is not as good as Bernie's and then we'll all yell about we then had a process that ended up in Joe Biden becoming the nominee and that the party's position was that we're going to strengthen the affordable care act

33:13 right and then we had but Joe Biden had a position on immigration that he ran on that was not not necessarily the policy that he governed on when he got there although you know like there will be a process here a nominee will emerge that nominee will have positions that will then define the party for good or for ill. The I think there's a risk of over complicating this for 2026. Like what we're trying to show people is that we are going to be a check on Trump,

33:39 right? Because we can't we shouldn't promise too much because we're not going to be able to deliver.

33:42 Yes. Even if we won the House and the Senate, we can't necessarily deliver anything. But one thing we can promise is that we are going to force a vote on repealing the tariffs.

33:49 Yeah. Like that. That's one. We could have a series of ideas of like how we're going to address corruption. like first vote is going to be get rid of to stop members of Congress from trading stocks. Like we can have a bunch of things that we're going to do and voters aren't dumb. Like they have given Democrats, they've given the opposition parties power all the time in situations like this knowing that the president like they want a check. They don't necessarily want they're not expecting Hakee Jeff and the Democrats to solve all of their problems. They want them to stop Trump from making their problems worse. And after that entire 2020 debate on Medicare for all that led to uh simply an extension of uh of bigger subsidies for the Affordable Care Act, um maybe we can force a vote on actually extending those subsidies. We actually win on it, which leads us to our next topic healthare.

34:35 Yeah, of course. Of course. Uh unsurprisingly, it's the worst issue in the poll for Trump, healthcare. Uh he's underwater by 40 points. Uh, I guess that's what happens when you show people that, you know, you'd rather keep the entire federal government closed than help stop uh premium hikes that are set to go into effect in just a few weeks uh for 20 million Americans. Um, some Republicans in Congress seem like they're belatedly coming around to the conclusion that this could be a political problem for them in the midterms, but not enough uh to just vote for the Senate Democrats proposal to extend the subsidies for three years.

35:07 That vote failed on Thursday, as did all the Republican alternative proposals in the Senate. There's some momentum in the House right now on discharge petitions to force votes on various extension proposals. There's um one proposal to extend the subsidies for two years.

35:24 That's the Republican discharge petition. There's another proposal to extend the subsidies for one year. Um both of those come with new income eligibility limits and minimum payments. Uh Trump's basically been a passive bystander on all this though Caroline Levit said on Thursday we'll all be hearing from him on this quote very soon. Sure that will be constructive. Um what do you think about this? Hakeem Jeff was asked about these discharge petitions and Democrats lining up behind it. I think one of I think the one-year extension one is uh came from Josh Godheimer, Democrat from New Jersey

35:58 and now has like 62 people that have signed onto it. But Hakee Jeffrey said he's not taking a position on these discharge petitions. What do you make of that?

36:07 I think that Democrats, Republicans want a get out of jail free card here that allows them to take a vote to extend the the Obamacare tax credits without ever actually having to extend the Obamacare tax credits. So, if I was Hakeem Jeff, I would say Democrats are not going to put any discharge petition over the top until the Senate passes a bill because

36:30 or or what if you say or and we want Donald Trump to say he's going to sign it.

36:34 Yeah, he's the other part. I mean, they could pass the House and and the hard to imagine Donald Trump vetoing. I mean, that would be like

36:41 maybe he could do it at the he could do it at the next political perspective like

36:45 A+++ A+++ move. Just the thing you don't want to do is let 15 vulnerable Republicans to be able to have take a vote because we forced the vote. They can't they the Republicans without Democratic help cannot get a discharge petition

36:59 done. There aren't enough Republicans to do it. So you need the vast majority. You need basically you need the DC's target list plus a bunch of Democrats to put it over the top. And I don't think we should do them that political favor unless there we know for sure that will result in people actually getting more affordable healthcare.

37:13 Yeah. Yeah. Like if Trump came out tomorrow and said, "I'm for this extension that's that's circulating the House and Thoon's like, "Yeah, we can get that done, too." Then the Democrats are like, "Sure, of course."

37:23 Yeah. Then Mike Johnson will bring it up, right? Then you don't need the discharge petition.

37:26 Right. Right. Right. So voters are already punishing Republican politicians for all this chaos. Uh and not just in federal races anymore. On Tuesday, Eileen Higgins won the runoff in the Miami mayor's race, beating the Trump and Dantis endorsed Republican by 18 points. She will be the first Democratic mayor in Miami in three decades. Uh and in the Georgia legislative elections, I know you were all paying attention to that. Uh Democrat Eric Gistler flipped a state house district that Trump carried by 12 points. Uh now the DC, which is the House Democrats campaign arm, says it's adding five more Republican held seats to its target list for 2026. Uh and a bunch of Democrats deciding it's a good year to run for office are launching primary campaigns right and left. Uh we talked last week a little bit about how Jasmine Crockett was expected to jump into the Senate race in Texas. She is now officially in. Colin

38:15 Allred has dropped out. Uh meaning that Crockett's main opponent will be James Telerico. Republicans are acting like they were uh dying to have Crockett in the race all along. The Senate Republicans campaign committee actually tried to take credit for making it happen by circulating a poll favorable to Crockett over the summer. Um Crockett responded to this on CNN. Let's take a listen. I am the one that the Republicans fear. They can say that they don't, but my governor cannot stop tweeting about me and I know that that is out of fear because honestly, if they really wanted me as the nominee, they would be quiet and just wait and hope to crush me. They know my ability to reach people that historically have not wanted to participate in politics or had just given up. So, uh, Crockett entered the race with a video, um, that was just her sort of looking away from the camera as just sound of Trump attacking her played

39:12 and she didn't say anything and then at the end sort of turns direct to camera and smiles and that's how she entered the race. So, very, you get the idea. She also did an event. She gave a whole speech and stuff like that like a rally with supporters. What do you make of uh Crockett's entry in the race and and sort of that message and how she's playing it so far?

39:32 Well, she has to win a Democratic primary first. That message probably plays very well in a Democratic primary. It's also a great way to raise money and get attention. Two things that I think she will be very, very good at in this race.

39:42 I think the question for Jasmine Crockett and James Helico, frankly, is what is your plan to actually win?

39:49 Because this is a state that Trump won by 13 and a half points. There is no math to win this state that does not involve doing what Jasmine Crockett pledges to do, which is to turn out Democratic voters and to find pockets of Democratic voters who do not participate in the political process and bring them into it, but also winning over some number of Trump voters. people who voted for Trump last year, who have voted for Republicans most of the last decade, who are frustrated by what's happening, who are mad about high cost or for or mad about the ballroom, whatever else, who want to give a Democrat a chance. And so, what is your plan to do both of those things? Because you're going to have to do both to win. There's no other option.

40:30 And simply saying you're going to expand the electorate is not enough in Texas. And it's not historically how Democrats have come close. I mean, Betto talked about it all the time in 2018, but a part of Betto's very close result, which was, I think, two and a half points. He lost Ted Cruz by two and a half points, was actually doing uh making some inroads with Republican voters.

40:53 Um, and and you know, he did expanding the electorate as well. You do both. You have to do both. And you have to do you have to and to win in Texas, you have to do an incredible historic job at both.

41:02 Yes. And I don't I agree that it is a um it is a it is a way to get attention that like Trump hates me. Um, and so, uh, therefore you should I just I think it is a, um, even in a primary, I think it's a it's an argument that is limited. And I'm not saying that's the only one she's making, but it I think it's a limited argument, particularly in in a midterm where, you know, it's 2026. Uh, Trump's leaving office in 2028. And, you know, the pe the Democrats in Texas who've come close over the last decade have talked a lot about

41:36 one Texto I was gonna say. Yeah. Well, even like I'm sorry, the ones who've like won the House races, right? Like a Colin all red and a Lizzie Fletcher and people like that, they talk about Texas, the issues in Texas, what people care about. Like you really got to it's it can't be about you. It's got to be about people.

41:52 We haven't won a S seat in Texas since 1988. Lloyd Benson's re-election. We haven't won statewide in a couple decades now. And I know that some people think, oh, Democrats are always, you know, they're always thinking Texas is going to turn blue and they're all Texas is always around the corner and it's it's fool's gold for Democrats. And like I get that, but also we don't have a choice at some point because it is one of the biggest states in the union. We've talked before about how in 2032 in the next census, it'll likely gain more electoral votes. Like there is no math for Democrats to certainly have the Senate but also the White House without at some point playing seriously in Texas and turning Texas

42:31 in Florida. We in Florida I know even Yeah, it is like Democrats have to play and like I think I think it is a very good thing that we're going to have a vigorous primary in Texas whether that was going to end up being Telerico and Allred Crockett Telerico all red or now Crockett and Telerico I think that's very important that is good for party building. We have to really play to win there. we have to play the win there in the short term because we kind of need Texas, right? Like maybe you can pull it off with Iowa or Alaska if you're lucky, but like we need two of very two of four very hard states. And so you got to you want as many lines in the water as you possibly can. And over the long term, we cannot seed Texas and Florida forever.

43:09 we absolutely have to bring that make them at least competitive because if Republicans start with all of the upper Midwest uh all the deep south plus Texas and Florida, they're always going to be three states or so from winning the presidency every single time. And so we have to be able to compete there. And that's going to mean investing money and time and energy race after race after race, even when we lose.

43:31 And I do think, you know, I think Crockett and Telerico both have sort of similar um positions on the issues. I think like ideologically they and I could be wrong about this and the whole the race will play out but they don't seem too far apart.

43:46 I do think that in a state like Texas too it is the style and approach to campaigning and to governing that is going to matter here and you know Telerico was here I talked to him for offline and for Save America and he has whether it works or not remains to be seen. He does have a theory of the case of like how he wants to reach out to people who may not vote Democrat. Um, and part of it is, you know, he's a a man of faith. He speaks about it openly and and and he's going to all these different places that are um the Democrats haven't won. And and I'm interested to see and hear from Jasmine Crockett what her plan to do that is.

44:22 She did say, you know, at one point she was like, I don't need Trump voters. And then later she was like, well, you know, there's there's always there's Trump Mumani voters, you know, in New York. And point taken, you know, the New York Trump Mundani voters are a little different than Texas, I think. But also, let's not forget Mandani. Like, he started his campaign by doing these on the street videos with Trump voters where he asked them why they voted for Donald Trump and did not scold them, was not patronizing to them and just had a conversation with them. And even though that he didn't change his positions and he was still pretty firmly ideologically left, um, he tried to approach that. And so, I'm interested to see if she does stuff like that. Yeah, that's that is going to be interesting because like moderation is not always ideological.

45:08 It's also temperament. Yeah. And Jasmine Crockett and James Heler are both like right in line with the median and Democratic member of Congress, elected official. Like she is like she is often grouped with AOC and Rashida Talib and Ilhan Omar and members or Bernie or whatever members of the squad

45:24 because she is style her style but her positions are she is you know is not a she's not a died in the wool progressive like some of those other folks. So, it is really going to be their approach to this and their styles. Like, it truly is a fascinating test case. And

45:41 I didn't realize until our meeting the other day that um it's so soon. It's it's like the first big p it's early voting starts some sometime in February and then March it's a March primary. So, that'll be one of the the first big ones of the year. Um, we also have an update on Trump's redistricting push in Indiana, which has involved the president, his administration, and Republican congressional leaders pressuring and in Trump's case, threatening Indiana Republicans with primaries and a loss of federal funding if they don't gerrymander their maps to squeeze out a few more Republican seats in time for the midterms. Well, Trump has failed. Uh, right before we recorded, the Republican controlled state senate killed the measure 31 to9 with more Republicans voting against redistricting than for it. Uh were you surprised

46:25 a little bit? I think the natural assumption over the last year is that everyone bows all these people bow to Trump and particularly Republicans, right? They will they can talk whether it's the Freedom Caucus, it's the moderates, they can talk a good game, but when push comes to shove, they do what Trump wants. And here you have a bunch of local state senators from Indiana, a deeply red state, just telling Trump no. And it really should be a moment of great shame for the law firms, the universities, the corporations, the folks at at Warner Brothers, Discovery, or wherever else who were thinking about doing what Trump wants because you can stand up to him.

47:02 And if these folks can do it, you certainly can. Yeah, I think it is. Um, it's a I mean it's obviously a big deal for the map, but I think that for this White House and for Trump, like they cannot handle any defection, any defeat, particularly, you know, from Republicans, right? And you're not supposed to be disloyal. It's the worst thing. And now that um this is out there and this has happened, the cracks are showing and like this combined with Marjorie Taylor Green and the Epstein files and all and it's like it's all of a piece here and it's starting to become a a real problem for them. There is an emperor has no close moment here where people like Trump has been punching above his weight when it came to his actual political influence for a long time because he was elected with an incredibly narrow margin. He was started as the least popular newly elected president in history. He dropped

47:50 faster than any other president. But yet Republicans kept following him based sort of on the fumes of his previous political strength. And now people recognize that here he is a guy less popular than Joe Biden at the same time with George W. Bush style numbers, who's getting weaker, who's never going to be on the ballot again, and that the they have to chart their own course, and it's not necessarily going to be the course that he dictates. And that's a real that is a change in both American politics, the Republican party, and Trump, because what has kept him afloat all this time through every scandal, every controversy, everything else has been party fidelity to Trump. And when that falls apart, he really loses a lot of his juice.

48:30 Yes. Now, the the one caution here is I do think he gets more dangerous. Oh, yeah. I'm This is not a bad

48:36 No, I know you, but I just I we have to keep saying that because I think that as he gets politically weaker, that's the good news, but I think he gets cornered and he gets dangerous and he still has quite a bit of power.

48:47 He does. And where where it limits him is in some of the more extreme like steal the election sort of things.

48:52 Yeah, that's true. That's true. Um, all right. Last thing before we get to my very serious conversation with Congressman Adam Smith about Trump's illegal strikes in the Caribbean. We've been talking a lot on the show about Nick Fuentes, uh, the dedicated white nationalist anti-semite misogynist who famously had dinner with Trump and more recently was invited on Tucker Carlson show for a softball interview setting off on a intramaga debate about how nice they should be to white nationalists. Um, Fuentes appeared this week on Piers Morgan show on Monday night and uh, it yielded this exchange. Just to clear up one of the many theories about you. I have no idea what the answer is and you haven't got an answer, but are you actually attracted to women?

49:28 I am attracted to women. You're not gay. No. But I will say that women are very difficult to be around.

49:37 Okay. So, there's that. And do you think they should have the right to vote? I do not. No. Absolutely not.

49:45 They should stay at home. Well, yeah. Absolutely. So, basically, you're just a misogynist old dinosaur, aren't you? Have you ever had sex?

49:56 No. Absolutely not. Wow. Says a guy who's never got laid. Took like a turn there.

50:03 There's so much about that. It's also It's just Have you ever had sex? And it wasn't like no, it was no, absolutely not. With the Christmas decorations behind him, that was bizarre.

50:14 It was very strange. What did What did you make of that? I don't know what to make of that, John. I really don't.

50:20 That's That's the uh That's the right. I guess that's the hard right. That's where the That's where the energy is.

50:26 That's right. That's where the new masculinity is right there. Obviously, that is who they're that is who the whole part is fighting over. For some reason, they can't bring themselves to just be like, "No, that guy not welcome into the fold."

50:38 It's actually helpful to see this clip because most people probably people listen to this people like like us don't ever consume Nick Fuentes. they just hear about the fight within the party over the Tucker Carlson area which they probably didn't watch or see clips of or anything else then you recognize that this is the guy lording over the Republican party is this dweeb and I also think people hear oh he's racist white nationalist and they think oh is it like when we hear Donald Trump say hole countries and it's like no no no it's not that it is like pure uncut doesn't care just says it and believes it

51:10 and is a virgin and is a virgin just just a just a white nationalist Incel who has a massively popular radio program.

51:20 Radio program? What did I say? Am I Did I just You said radio program. He has a

51:26 I just transported myself back to the 50s where women stayed home like they should.

51:30 How's his leaflet business going? YouTube, whatever. I don't know. He's out there. Millions of people following him. Crazy

51:39 on some platform. You don't know what it is. Yeah. Speaking of toxic manosphere influencers, you see the Times story about uh the Tate brothers, how Andrew Tate and his brother were freed from Romania after uh getting close to Don Jr. and Baron Trump

51:53 who's he gives Andrew Tate holds zooms with Baron presumably to give him dating advice.

51:58 They held the Zoom the third Tate brother, one of the tape brothers friends, not real tape brother, but he's known as the third. Yeah, he's like friends. He gives Baron dating advice. But the um the Times, it's quite a story. The Tape brothers who have been accused over the years of rape, uh assault,

52:17 sex trafficking, sex trafficking, just horrific stuff. And finally, uh they were charged in Romania and the Romanian government said that while the prosecutor was building the case there, um they couldn't leave the country. They desperately wanted to leave the country

52:30 and so they were trying to avoid prosecution. This is from the Time Story. In a January 14th text message, Mr. Tate indicated that help was on the way. And this is January 14th of uh 2025. I had word from the Trump administration that they're on top of things. Mr. Tate wrote to someone close to him in a message reviewed by the New York Times. Quote, I've been told I'll be free soon, but Trump needs to see me in Miami, he added. And then the whole story is about how they got close to the Trumps. And so basically Trump like obviously there's like this political element to the Tates and the manosphere and all of that, but it's also like he freed his son's idol.

53:08 I just how many just disgusting her bad human beings are we going to find out that Donald Trump? It's like a variety of everyone that you could imagine. It's like do you not like sex traffickers? Well, he freed one of those. What about the people who stormed the capital? He freed them. What about just a your your standard issue fraudster who just like you know defrauded hundreds of thousands of people and senior citizens freed them too.

53:32 What about the murder we brought back from Venezuela prisoner exchange? Yeah, there's one. There's one. Oh, what about the uh the drug kingpin from H was the the or the the Honduran president that was in in league with the drug kingpins that was in sitting in federal prison here. Pardon him as well.

53:46 You see that Silk Road guy, another drug dealer. Pardon him as well. Crypto guys. Did you see that Trump the Trump Department of Justice dropped the investigation against the FIFA corruption people right after Trump got his

53:56 well he got the peace prize. He doesn't want to he doesn't anyone connected to the FIFA peace prize. We don't want to we don't want to see them uh you know get in any trouble.

54:05 It's weird he's his numbers on crime aren't doing so great. If you have money, if you have connections, you get pardoned. You can do whatever crimes you want. But if you are just a regular American citizen who looks brown and happens to be near an ICE raid, you could go away for days and no one would ever find out where you are.

54:21 That's the Trump administration. Cool country. Yeah. Well, we should change it in 26. All right. When we get back from the break, you'll hear my conversation with Adam Smith. But two things before we get to that. In case you missed it, Pod Save America's coming to New Zealand and Australia. What do you think, Dan?

54:36 You ever been to Australia before? No. Have you? I have. Okay. I went with Barack Obama in 2014.

54:40 I didn't go on that trip. You You were gone. Really? one of the alltime great trips. I'll tell you the stories later. Okay. Uh well, we're calling this one the hopefully just visiting tour. Um Emily said that's a little too close to home. She was a little worried about that.

54:53 I I as Hie had the same same response. Anyway, I think it's like hanging a lantern. It's like we we're being this public about it. So, it would be I guess it would just be ironic.

55:05 Look at those Yahoos who flew too close to the sun in Australia. They did they did say it might happen and there it's happening. Uh anyway, uh we landed in Auckland uh on February 11th. Um that is the 11th of February down there. We had some issues with the dates, the way that we put the dates. Sorry about that.

55:21 Um the then there's three cities in Australia after that. Uh Melbourne on the 13th of February, uh Brisbane on the 14th of February and Sydney on the 16th of February. Tickets are on sale right now. For more details and to grab tickets, head to crooked.com/events. Uh, also if you haven't checked out Runaway Country with Alex Wagner yet, what are you doing? It's great. Uh, she this week she's been joined by three incredible guests to dig into the chaos at the Pentagon. Uh, she talks to Senator Alyssa Slacken. Uh, she talks to uh, Ben Rhodess. Heard of him?

55:54 No. Yeah. And she talks to uh, Nancy Ysef, one of the journalists who gave up her Pentagon press pass rather than uh, you know, deal with Pete Hegath's new rules. And so she talks about what it's like reporting outside of the Pentagon walls. It's a fantastic episode. I just listened to it this morning. It's so good. Uh, so tune in to Runaway Country now on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

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57:20 Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. Pod Save America brought to you by Bombas. This time of year, it's sensory overload everywhere. But one feeling we're still chasing, cozy. And Bombas has the socks, slippers, and basically everything to get you there. There's something weirdly therapeutic about fresh socks, and the sock scientists at Bombas have found a way to channel that energy into everything from slippers with sinking cushioning to the perfect fitting ankle sock. And that feeling, it doesn't stop after one wear. It keeps going. They've got answers for all your gifting questions, too. Like, what do you get your son's new marathon training girlfriend? You get the running socks that have sweat wicking and impact cushionings. Your neighbor's fussy newborn. You get the baby bombas that fit like a hug and are designed to feel soft and stay snug on even the wiggliest

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58:52 Codecrooked at checkout. Congressman Adam Smith, welcome back to Pods America. Well, thanks uh for having me. A lot going on in the world.

59:00 There's a lot going on. I I want to get into some of the bigger questions around the uh Trump administration's military actions in the Southern Hemisphere and uh and his broader foreign policy. But since you're one of the few members of Congress who's actually seen the video of the second US strike that killed two survivors of the first boat strike, uh I wonder what you can tell us about what you saw. Uh without getting into anything classified, of course.

59:24 Yeah. And I and and by the way, this video should be released. There's nothing classified about this strike. I mean, they've released videos on almost 20 strikes now, and they should release this one. I think the reason they're not is because it doesn't paint a a picture that they want people to see. Now, look, I mean, you've got two people clinging to a cap-sized boat. Uh, it's the bow of the boat that's still above water. How much of the boat remains underwater? Can't tell because it's underwater. It's possible the boat is actually split in half at this point. Early on in the video, they're like pulling at it. I mean, whether or not they're trying to get it to flip over or whether or not they're just trying to get a solid hold so they don't fall into the water, I don't know. But by the end of it, it's clear there's no tipping this back over.

1:00:06 So, they're playing into the side of a boat. Um, they have they're clearly unarmed. Uh, they do not have any communications devices on them. Um, and then about 40 minutes after the first strike, the second strike hits, kills them, and sinks the remainder of the boat. And at one point they were waving maybe or

1:00:26 Yeah, near the end they were waving and there was a lot of speculation about what that might mean. To me it's pretty obvious we had an asset in the air over the top of them. It kind of looks like they saw the asset and just like two people in a desert island when they see something fly over what do you do?

1:00:43 Right. Um that seems the most likely interpretation of that. So, the Republicans who've seen the video have seemed uh largely satisfied with the administration's explanation, at least in their public comments. Does that track with what you've heard privately? And do you think they genuinely believe the strike was legal and right, or are they uh worried about pissing off Trump?

1:01:09 Um, they're clearly worried about pissing off Trump. Um, as for the second part, they don't talk about that. Certainly don't talk about it with me. I have not heard that. Now, I will say that if you want to look at the video and say, and there is an explanation, which we can get into that I've gotten from Admiral Bradley on a couple of occasions now. Um, you know, if you want to say you buy that explanation, that's fine. But Senator Cotton in particular has really been saying things that either his ability to perceive events is severely limited or he's not being honest. This notion that, you know, I saw two people trying to flip the boat and continue their mission. you know, they were trying to communicate.

1:01:48 Yeah. No, that that was absolutely not happening. And then he had this line during his meet the press interview. I forget the exact word he used. He said something like, "They didn't look like they had been impaired in any way." I'm like, "Well, their their boat got blown up, set on fire. Nine of the 11 of them got killed, and they're now clinging to a cap-sized small piece of the boat hundreds of miles from anywhere with no help." I don't know. I think you could interpret that as somewhat impaired. Um, so just the lack of honesty. Now, I mean, I suppose they could come out and say, "Look, this is what we saw. This is what it was. We still think it's legitimate." But for the most part, they've avoided getting into specifics and just said, "Nah, we're good."

1:02:27 Because if you ask them about specifics, that's very difficult to defend. And what was Admiral Admiral Bradley's explanation that you found plausible if even though you disagree with it? Yeah, and this is where we get into the policy and what is a real huge problem. Something I think is really important for for we Democrats as we look to 26 and hopefully to 28 and getting back into power. How are we going to govern? Obviously, you know, cost of living, healthcare, domestic issues, but national security policy matters and I know on this podcast you got a lot of people who are really concerned about US national security policy. So you start out with the post 911 world which basically was we got surprised by al Qaeda in a big negative way and I think there's a lot of people who weren't alive for that. If you weren't alive for that you have a different perspective on it. That was a terrifying moment. I was

1:03:19 at the US capital when it happened and was how did this happen? How can we prevent it going forward? We basically decide okay there are armed organized groups that are trying to kill us. So, let's figure out who they are and let's get them first basically was was the philosophy. Um, and I not going to say I was in no way opposed to that philosophy at the time. Now, what happened though was okay, so it's al Qaeda, it's Osama bin Laden, he's coming for us, he's hanging out in caves in Afghanistan. Let's go get it. But then they've got affiliates. They've got AQAP um in Yemen. They've got al-Shabaab in Somalia. They've got Al Qaeda in the land of the Islamic Mcgreb, which is basically West Africa. And then you got ISIS and then you've got subgroups and and it metastasized into this mission where an incredibly large number of people could be categorized as an enemy combatant just like a division of you

1:04:11 know armed troops coming across you on the battlefield. And that expansion got us into trouble and and we didn't basically get the read on that soon enough and it metastasized into the mission in Iraq and endless mission in Afghanistan trying to think that we'd always kill just one more person then we'd absolutely be safe and that was a mistake. All right. Now let's not underestimate that post 911 we did stop al Qaeda and we didn't stop any more attacks in the US but it went too far. Now Trump is taking that and just expanding it even further with this designation of 24 narco terrorist groups because once you call somebody a terrorist then you can do whatever you want to them. Um but really anyone trying to traffic drugs is a terrorist in the same sense as Osama bin Laden who was trying to kill as many Americans as possible. I mean drug dealers are awful, horrible, terrible people. We have a

1:05:01 massive drug problem in this country. How to deal with it is a policy we need to get after. It seems to be as much of a demand problem as a supply problem, which lays out a whole bunch of different approaches. But if you say that anyone trying to traffic drugs, anyone affiliated with with a group trying to traffic drugs is now as legitimate a target as Osama bin Laden when he was trying to kill as many Americans as possible. You've just dramatically expanded the power. And also, let's make clear, there's no congressional authorization for this.

1:05:31 Say what you want about the global war on terror. it had congressional authorization. The president's doing this completely on his own and for the most part without informing Congress, which brings us to the next interesting part of this. Why? What's he trying to accomplish? Is he really just hellbent to stop the scourge of drugs in America? Well, while he's pardoning the former convicted or sorry, the convicted former president convicted drug dealer from Honduras, also pardoning Ross Albrech, the Silk Road crypto guy who was convicted of laundering billions of dollars in drug money. It doesn't seem consistent. So, what I think he's trying to do is assert power, dominance, go outside the law. What he's trying to do with the tariffs, what he's trying to do with ICE, terrorizing all of our communities, sending troops into our cities to engage in domestic law enforcement, all the programs that he

1:06:19 canled against the law. He's trying to say law didn't apply to me and I'm going to assert dominance certainly over the law in the country, but also over the Western Hemisphere. Let's not forget the plans to invade Greenland and Panama and annex Canada. This is the complete detonation of any principled foreign policy by the United States of America. And I think there's plenty of people going to be listening to this podcast who are going to say, "Well, when did we ever have principles?" We did. We we we haven't upheld them as well as we should have. It's gotten complicated and difficult. We need to do better. But Trump is taking to us a taking us to a place that we haven't been since the end of World War II, which is the US doesn't have principles. It just has interests.

1:07:00 We're going to use our power to grab as much of the world as we can and the law doesn't really matter to me. That's what this is about much more than any desire to stop drugs coming into the United States of America.

1:07:13 So there's a lot there and I want to I want to get to a lot of it. Um but just to start in the more narrow uh sense of so these you know labels these organizations narot terrorists has a bunch of individuals labeled as narot terrorists. Have you gotten any answers as to why the administration um can't just do what the Coast Guard has done for the last uh forever and just interdict these boats? Particularly since I guess we just seized a Venezuelan oil tank or an oil tanker off the off the coast of Venezuela. Like why can't you just do that with the drug boats?

1:07:53 We haven't gotten much of an answer. I mean, to the extent I've heard an answer, it's like, well, that just wasn't effective enough. Um, you know, so and you know, it's easier to blow a boat up than it is to seize it. But that's what's particularly disturbing going back to the the to the second strike. I mean, these two guys are sitting on top of a, you know, a ship, a boat that is not operated, is drifting with the current. Clearly, in that instance, interdiction seemed like a pretty simple option that that wasn't chosen. So, no, I haven't gotten a good answer. And again, I keep coming back to this thing, and I don't want to sound too like a conspiracy theorist or Trump is the evil, you know, bent on the destruction of the world. But I do think a lot of it has to do with trying to expand his power so that it won't be questioned, you know, kill these people, then I'm free to to go from there. I

1:08:42 think it really I think that's a lot of it. He wants to be unbound by norms and laws and constitutions and all of that to do what he wants. So to the explanation that you guys got from Admiral Bradley, um is that was that more about well if the boat strikes themselves are legal then the sec then it follows that the second strike uh was the right thing to do because the order was to blow up the boats.

1:09:12 Yeah, there's a couple of problems with that. Um but yes, and and interestingly as I I literally just talked to him like an hour ago. um and he's SOCOM commander so it was not directly related but we did talk about it and it's like so first of all is it the drugs that are the legitimate target or is it the individuals that are the legitimate target you know much has been made of oh the Washington Post saying that heath gave an order to kill everybody and that was clearly not true it actually was pretty accurate there there were 11 people on this boat and the order was kill all 11 destroy the drugs now when you say kill everybody It conjures up images of, you know, just blow up the apartment building. Who cares? You know, in this case, the 11 people who had been designated were in a pretty confined area. You weren't going to there wasn't going to be collateral damage. But he gave the order, kill them

1:10:04 all. U kill them all and destroy the drugs. And yes, it the this decision on the second strike flows from that. And and is it really lawful without congressional authorization to just and these are affiliates. I mean, how directly linked? They're not they're not the drug lords. They're not, you know, the the famous third person in charge of al-Qaeda who we were targeting constantly. Um, no, 11 guys who were, you know, foot soldiers in in the effort. But yes, they targeted the they targeted the drugs and that definitely flowed into decision to say, well, and this is one part that I have my serious questions about, but they claimed that it was possible that the drugs were still there underneath that portion of the boat that still remained. I find that not terribly plausible and something I want to investigate further.

1:10:52 Um, but you know, if that's not clear either. Well, what if the drugs weren't there?

1:10:59 Are these two people legitimate targets? They say no because this is the two people who survived a month later in October and they were just floating in the water apart from the drugs. But why? I mean, why if they're legitimate targets, you know, as humans, regardless of the drugs, why are they? And that's why we need a lot more investigation and explanation of what this policy is.

1:11:19 Well, speaking of those um those other two survivors from uh another strike in October, clearly the policy had changed. Uh something changed because they didn't um blow them out of the water. They didn't kill them. Um, but I'm sure you saw the New York Times story from this week uh that said uh when they uh rescued those survivors, the Pentagon lawyers reached out to the State Department lawyers and asked if they could send them to SECOT in El Salvador um or basically anywhere but the United States where if they entered the United States and entered the US judicial system, then the administration would have to prove in court, might have to prove in court um that there was evidence for the legal justification for the strikes writ large. Uh what did you what did you make of that story?

1:12:08 Yeah. No, I I think it it really under scores the point. They don't know exactly what they're doing or the legalities behind it. And as I asked in one briefing about a month ago, you know, so basically you need less evidence to kill them than you do to capture them. And what sense does that make? But also they would say and they have said that the policy didn't change. That the difference is that these two were afloat in the ocean clearly away from the drugs. There were no more drugs involved as opposed to these two who are on a boat that conceivably could have had the drugs still underneath the damaged boat. Yeah. I mean it's like it's funny. It's not funny because this is really serious business, but I'm a big sports fan. And so as he was explaining this to me, it it reminded me of listening to people in a replay official trying to figure out if an NFL receiver had quote completed the catch

1:12:59 end quote. Um, you know, and when you're getting down into that level, there is one thing that I think should come up over the top of it. We're talking about killing people. So, let's heir on the side of not. All right? And I understand. All right? You know, if you're out in the field in Iraq with roadside bombs going off with people showing up with suicide vests and is does that guy have a vest? Does he not have a those are much tougher calls and I mean we're talking about two guys clearly unarmed in the middle of the freaking ocean. All right. Clinging to the remains of a boat. Make the decision. No, these guys are clearly not a threat to anybody. Let's not kill them.

1:13:47 So, you've been demanding answers. Um, you've been trying to slow this down. I know the annual uh National Defense Authorization Act passed the House yesterday with a provision that would cut uh Pete Hegathth's budget, travel budget, uh if he doesn't turn over the footage of the second strike. Uh do you think that'll work? You think you'll get the footage?

1:14:06 Probably not. Um the good thing about that is we got something in there that says the United States Congress doesn't approve of what you're not doing. Okay. of the fact that you're not releasing this. That to me is a significant victory in this Congress with these Republicans. Now, I mean, fencing his travel budget is it'll make it a little bit inconvenient for him. I don't think he'll change. Sorry. I know this is serious business, but jokes occur to me. I I've been joking that we should we should have fenced his hair and makeup budget. That would have really

1:14:37 That would have hit home. That then would have seen those videos. Um, no, I mean, but but I think that the point is really it really is important. The congress said look you are not complying with the law and that's the other aspect okay not complying with the law in terms of when you have the authority to kill somebody but goes beyond that this department of defense I mean hexath didn't even keep secret information secret and signalgate then he acts like it's fine of course we release you know the targeting information and the timing of strikes before they happen who doesn't you know it's just there is a lack of accountability and a lossness about this group and the one thing that sticks in my crawl more than anything is this whole Department of War nonsense. He is not the Secretary of War. He is the Secretary of Defense because that's what the law says. And you don't get to just decide to ignore the law. And yet he is.

1:15:27 You know, I was out at the Reagan Defense Forum. Oh, he's the Secretary of War. He's the under secretary of war. No, he's not. That's illegal. You know, we want the leaders of the highest level of our government to at least care what the law is. I mean, you've worked in this areas before, you know. I mean, there's arguments about it. what can the executive branch really do? But here, it's not a matter of argument. They're like, we do what we want. Don't talk to me about the law. And I think that should alarm every single American, regardless of your partisan affiliation.

1:15:57 Do your um options for dealing with this administration um get better if Democrats retake Congress in the midterms? like what what additional powers would you have um to either try to get answers from them on uh what's happening in the southern hemisphere, whether it's the strikes, whether it's whatever they're doing in Venezuela um or anything else.

1:16:21 It gets better a thousand%. There there's so many things we can do, but it requires the majority or sorry, a majority of the House. I mean, we're seeing the Republican majority fracture as we're passing repeated um discharge petitions which overcome the will of the current majority, but we need a majority of members to say yes, we want that to happen. And if we have the majority, we can do that. I would also have subpoena power uh to get after these. I would have considerable more authority to to fence larger, you know, chunks of their funds. You know, it's not it's not a panacea, don't get me wrong. It's not like they make me king for the day if I become chairman again. We still have the Senate to deal with. I mean, hopefully we can pick up the Senate. That's a more complicated thing as you know. Um, but yeah, if we got one body or the other, we would have a lot more power to demand accountability. We'd still be a long way

1:17:11 from it. Look, you know, George Will wrote a column a couple days ago that I thought was pretty good, which was it's hard to constrain the military powers of the president. That's why you have to be really careful about who you give the job to. Um, and so certainly Trump being back in the White House is a huge problem, but yes, if we had the majority, we would have considerably more power to hold him accountable.

1:17:35 What's uh what's your latest thinking on um what they're trying to do in Venezuela? Obviously, you know, got stepped up a little bit uh with the uh seizure of the the tanker. So, they decided to levy some sanctions on Maduro's three nephews I saw today. Um are you getting any more answers on this on on Venezuela? Are they getting briefed on it? Like

1:17:56 no, we're not getting clear answers on this. And when we ask about it and I, you know, I I was briefed by Secretary Rubio and Secretary Hegath a couple weeks ago and all a bunch. Oh, no, no, no, no. Gosh, Venezuela is all about the drugs. We're not focused. We don't like Maduro. So, but you can see from what the president has said, from the actions he's taken that he wants to drive Maduro from power and he mentioned he mentioned pro in Colombia yesterday. Look, you know, part of the frust Trump said what he was going to do and he's been very clear about this and it's this 19th century way of looking at the world where he wants to control and dominate the Western Hemisphere. And I'm going to tie this into Ukraine in just one second in a very troubling way. And he thinks this is our area of control and he wants to assert that control. And Maduro is not playing ball. And you can see, you know, the I can't pronounce the guy's

1:18:42 name in Argentina. Um, but you know, he's a Trump guy. So here, $40 billion, we love you. In Honduras, you know, he's got an election, so he wants to influence that election to go his way. So he pardons, you know, the it's all about do you pledge allegiance to Trump. And right now, Maduro and Petro are not. So he wants to try to force them out in the same way that he'd like to grab Greenland, that he wants to control the Panama Canal, that he wants to annex Canada. Um, he has this vision of the world that it's the 19th century all over again. It's really important if you I forget I read something that was sort of the history of international law. Um and prior to World War II, we had international law and it basically was big powerful countries were free to grab whatever territory they could. They had to talk to the other big powerful countries before they did it. And there had to be some kind of like little

1:19:34 understanding here. And after World War II, we said, "Yeah, that's not working out very well." World War after World War after World War, the last one killed like 75 million people. damn near exterminated the planet. Let's try a different approach. Let's try sovereignty. Let's try some intern and I international rule of law, the rulesbased system. And I know it's not perfect and I know we violated it from time to time, but there was a general notion that that's what you're trying to get rid of all of that. And that's why he's more on Putin's side in Eastern Europe than he is on Ukraine's. Putin wants to grab Eastern Europe. That's fine. I I got my thing. He's got his thing. That's okay. I mean, it's the only explanation for why he's undermining Zalinski at every turn. I mentioned I was at the Reagan Defense Forum, the whole peace through strength thing. You know, if we are in fact on Ukraine's side in that war, which we

1:20:26 should be, then what Trump is doing is he's showing surrender through weakness. I mean, who the hell goes into a negotiation and says, "Yeah, we'll lose it. We're getting our asses kicked over here. Ukraine can barely hold on." So, if he's on Ukraine's side, he's an idiot. But I suspect that he's really not that, you know, he's more in the sovereignty sovereignty. We big powerful men get to do what we want.

1:20:48 It also explains sort of his interactions with President Xi in China as well. And um why they're not they don't seem to be taking China as seriously as a uh national security uh potential threat or at least competitor. Um, and I'd probably be worried if I was Taiwan uh with with Trump in power. Um, but I mean these these aren't just people should know these aren't just like your guesses on what they're up to. Like they released their national security strategy, Trump and Hexath Pentagon. And it's very explicit by talking about a Trump correlary to the to the Monroe Doctrine.

1:21:27 um in which he does see they they do see themselves as sort of like we get to run the Western Hemisphere and um and you know it's it tracks with all of Trump's weird respect for all of the other powerful dictators who happen to be right-wing dictators, right? If you're more left-wing authoritarian, then he wants to oust you, but if you're more right-wing authoritarian, then he's your pal. Um, how are you thinking about a a democratic alternative to this worldview that both gives people a different vision than Trump's but also demonstrates to people that our party has learned from our own past mistakes uh when it comes to dealing with the rest of the world?

1:22:09 Uh the two big things for me is num well two maybe three let me get started here and I'll see how many I come up with but number one let's get rid of the idea of dominance altogether. I think this is where we made a mistake. And at the end of the cold war, the end of the cold war corresponding with the first Gulf War was really unfortunate timing. You know, the Soviet Union collapsed and then we showed up and you know, took care of Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait like that. And so we got into this into our head the idea that, oh, we can fix all of the world's problems. And you know, there were some who had malevolent reasons for that. A lot of neocons just wanted to dominate for the sake of putting more money in their pocket, for the sake of having power. But there were a lot of people on the left that said, you know, we can stop h we can stop hunger, famine, civil war. We can go into a place like Libya or Rwanda or

1:22:57 Somalia and fix things. We need to bury that idea. We can influence events and the US should play a role, but we need to get rid of the no pure competitor. We must dominate because it's just not going to happen. I mean, we live in a multipolar world. It's not post World War II when the entire rest of the industrialized world had just been blown off the face of the map. We have competition. How do we manage that competition? So, get rid of dominance, number one. Number two, partners and allies. We're not going to do this alone. We're not going to meet our national security interests on our own.

1:23:27 And Trump, of course, is busily undermining that as well. Um, but also, I think, you know, understand that the US should play a role in the world. And this is where I disagree with some of my friends on the left who have a very harshly critical assessment of what the US has been doing over the course of the last 80 years. I think the record is more mixed but by and large the US being engaged in the world in the right way is a positive thing. If we disengage then brutal aggressive autocrats like Putin um like what Iran has done in the Middle East they're going to prosper. So I think we need to be engaged from a place of humility cooperation and working together. And then the final piece of this is when this rules-based international order was set up, the world was an entirely different place than it is right now. I think we need to recognize that. You know, Brazil, India, even China. These are countries that

1:24:19 have a bigger play and a bigger stake. I don't want a confrontation with China, by the way. Now, I think Trump's doing this for all the wrong reasons. But the idea that we should tone it down and try to find some way to get along with China. I took one of the the first congressional trip to China two months ago um and had high level meetings over there. We got a long way to go, but the world is a better place in the next 50 years if the US and China can figure out some way to peacefully coexist than if we're constantly bumping into each other. And I think that's a a a pretty decent framework is we got work to do, but let's try to have a rules-based international order. Now when it comes to human rights, when it comes to liberal democracy, we want to promote that. And this is where I think heth fundamentally understands what a realist is. A realist basically believes that liberal democracy, pluralism, greater

1:25:10 freedom and opportunity for all is a better way to live, but understands that we're not in a position to force the entire world to do that. And we occasionally have to work with people who aren't going to meet that ideal. So we're going to be realistic about that. what Haggith and Trump are doing. It's not realism. It's nihilism. It's power. It's no principles only. Well, the phrase, I forget who used it, was, you know, that the strong do take what they what they can and the weak suffer what they must. That's the way the world was.

1:25:40 That's not the way we want the world to be. Um, so I think we need to work off of that framework. There's all kinds of different little pieces of it, but I and that's something I'm working on because we got to win in 26, we got to win in 28. There's a whole lot of issues. Like I said, I want to have a plausible national security strategy for our coalition, which our coalition is pretty much at each other's throats right now. Want to try to have that conversation, get that figured out so we're in a stronger position in 26 and 28.

1:26:05 I mean, it is um it does seem like zero sum a view of the world that is zero sum politics both abroad and you know, it matches what they're doing here and the policies they have here, right? which is just this you know the strong survive survival of the fittest and the weak can uh just you know deal with it. Um I do there was one more thing but before I let you go in the national security strategy clearly this you know uh western hemisphere we're going to run the western hemisphere it's in our sphere of influence thing um it you know it's power for power sake they also mention quite a few times mass migration and I do think that some of what they're doing in the Caribbean and Venezuela like you know they they want to say it's about drugs but really I mean you know Stephen Miller was talking about blowing up boats back in 2018 uh reportedly. And so I do wonder if some of this is uh meant as like a deterrent like we are

1:27:00 going to stop the rest of the world from even attempting to come to the United States. And partly in the national security strategy they lay out there like m the era of mass migration is over. um which seems sort of ludicrous to me and that like you can't really stop people from trying to migrate places particularly uh as we're you know we have conflicts all over the world and and climate change is going to start pushing people uh you know towards other countries as well and so I wonder how you think about dealing with mass migration the reality of mass migration knowing that you know we just went through four years of Joe Biden where we had some real border challenges that in some ways has led to another Donald Trump term and now we have this national security strategy and a domestic policy that is focused primarily on keeping immigrants out.

1:27:50 Yeah, that's a really good point and I hadn't thought about it quite that starkly. Thank thanks for bring me mentioning that because that factors into the thinking as well. Several different pieces to that. I mean first of all and this is something I left out in the national security strategy. Development matters. If you don't want people to migrate, help make sure that all the wealth and opportunity isn't concentrated in in just a few places. Yeah you

1:28:10 let's stop. Don't get rid of us. Don't starve hungry children to death across the world. Actually engage in trying to create a more prosperous world for them so that they don't have to migrate to survive is number one. Number two, I do think we as Democrats, we we do have to have some control on our borders and I think that hurt us. Um we can't take everyone who's desperate. We need to have a rational asylum system, a rational immigration system. Um, and you know, certainly part of that is a pathway to citizenship for the undocumented population that we have invited into this country and depended upon their labor for decades to now, you know, cast them out into the world is cruel, wrong, and bad for the country.

1:28:52 But we do have to have a border security plan. But the other part of this that I think is really important that just screams out in that national security strategy is it's really racist. Okay, tip of the hat to Trump, you know, sort of like pulling off the mask in Pennsylvania yesterday. Yeah, we want people from Sweden and Norway, not from those hole countries. You know, he just b he said the quiet part out loud, as the cliche goes. And I think that racism is a huge problem because what does it mean to be an American? Well, you're an American if you believe in the basic liberal democracy values here. It don't matter what you look, don't matter what religion you have. That was sort of our principle. And now what Trump and these people are trying to say, no American, you better be a straight white guy. Um, well, we need some women too, but certain designated roles in that regard. You know, I don't think that's a

1:29:39 message that's going to be unifying in the world if we pit, you know, you know, races and religions against each other in a death struggle to the end. Um, I think, you know, migration shouldn't be based on religion and race and all of that. Um, you know, we do have to control it, like I said, but understanding this white Christian nationalist thing, that's another connection between Trump and Putin. Um, we got to nip that in the bud because that fundamentally undercuts both our principles and our values and it leads to a lot more conflict. Yes.

1:30:12 You know, if you tell the rest of the world if you don't have the right religion, you don't look the right way, then you're not going to be allowed to live. Well, they're going to fight. Um, so we better have a more inclusive world going forward. Congressman, um, thank you as always for joining Pod Save America. Appreciate, uh, appreciate you coming on.

1:30:27 Yeah, I love what you guys do. I appreciate you giving me the chance and got a lot of work to do. Got got to win next year and got a win in 28.

1:30:33 For sure. For sure. Well, good luck out there. Take care. Thank you. That's our show for today. Thanks to Adam Smith for coming on. Love will be back in the feed on Sunday with a conversation with JB Pritsker about the Ice Madness in Chicago redistricting and the best and worst Star Wars movies. I'm excited for That was very important to him to love it. Yes. When he found out that JB Pritsker is a Star Wars guy,

1:30:53 I've never seen him more aggressively pursue an interview than after that. Yeah. Well, it's also like because JB Pritsker uh likes gambling and and and goes to Vegas and uh as big steakhouse guy like like he's hitting all the stuff for Love It. Love it. Very excited about this.

1:31:08 When he was on the podcast in Chicago during the convention, he told Tommy and I that he and his buddies do a steakhouse crawl. Yeah, that's

1:31:15 I don't know whether he's gonna be I don't know whether he's gonna be the best president or the best presidential candidate. He might be the best hang.

1:31:19 Yeah. Well, we'll see. So, tune it'll tell us. Tune in Sunday uh for that. And uh and then we'll have a new Pod Save America episode for you again on Tuesday.

1:31:28 Bye, everyone. Bye, everyone.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Trump FLAILS To Turn Around His BOTCHED Presidency"?

John Favreau (Host), Dan Feifer (Host), Dasha Burns (Guest).

What is "Trump FLAILS To Turn Around His BOTCHED Presidency" about?

The discussion focuses on Donald Trump's weakened political stance as he approaches 2025, highlighting questionable actions during his presidency, including pardons for controversial figures. The conversation also covers the recent Democratic electoral victories and upcoming primary challenges, while incorporating a satirical examination of controversial public figures.

What is mentioned in this Pod Save America episode?

424 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Pod Save America, John Favro, Healthcare, midterms. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Trump FLAILS To Turn Around His BOTCHED Presidency"?

The episode runs 1 h 32 min; the transcript is about 18,958 words in 237 timestamped sections.

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