How to Build Instant Connection - David Razowsky

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: Second City, David Rosowski, Los Angeles, Viewpoints
2. 10:00 – 20:00: Tactical empathy, The Art of War, The War of Art
3. 20:00 – 30:00: negotiation, Body Language
4. 30:00 – 40:00: Los Angeles, negotiation, Philippines, Radical listening
5. 40:00 – 50:00: Second City, Colombia, Los Angeles, Philippines
6. 50:00 – 1:00:00: Body Language, Belfast, Berlin, David Rosowski
7. 1:00:00 – 1:01:24: Body Language

Notable quotes from "How to Build Instant Connection - David Razowsky"

• What you can prove. David Rosowski, the improvisation teacher and former artistic director of Second City Los Angeles, has discovered that authentic connection and radical listening close more deals than any script ever could.

  about Second City · at 0:03

• Doing it in the moment and the people that I work with are people like Steve Carell Steven Colbear Amy Sedaris Rachel Dr. I was I was coach for Chris Farley. I've worked with…

  about Amy Sedaris · at 2:06

• Connect with their audience. They need to build rapport. You need whatever it is. If it's a negotiation or if you're selling something or if you're leading a team, there's so…

  about negotiation · at 3:16

• Learning how to read body language, learning how to understand that what comes out of your face. If you say banana and somehow she's triggered by banana, you've got to be able to read.

  about Body Language · at 5:22

• The first thing I do is teach this theatrical trick. And it's a Rosetta Stone. The Rosetta Stone is this. How is your partner sitting? That's called shape. How are they…

  about Rosetta Stone · at 6:45

• Very small part that he's going about six minutes to blast through that and he's trying to do this tactical empathy.

  about Tactical empathy · at 10:31

• I was sitting there. I was in So people I work with are in the Philippines and it's a culture thing in the Philippines. They'll say, -huh.

  about Philippines · at 35:24

• Be next to each other very different than someone who is from Denmark or Sweden or Finland or even the United States. We as Americans, we want a very large birth. We just give me my space.

  about United States (states) · at 48:53

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• David Rosowski — Person · 3 mentions · first at 0:03
  Welcome to the Proven Podcast, where it does not matter what you think, only what you can prove. David Rosowski, the improvisation teacher and former artistic director of…
• Amy Sedaris — Person · 1 mention · first at 2:10
• Chris Farley — Person · 1 mention · first at 2:17
  Carell Steven Colbear Amy Sedaris Rachel Dr. I was I was coach for Chris Farley. I've worked with them all of them. eventually becoming the artistic director of the Second City…
• Hermione Granger — Person · 1 mention · first at 57:01
  Failed. For the old people out there, be Obi-Wan Kenobi. For the young people out there, be Hermione Granger. I don't know. Don't try and be Harry Potter.
• Harry Potter — Person · 1 mention · first at 57:03
  Obi-Wan Kenobi. For the young people out there, be Hermione Granger. I don't know. Don't try and be Harry Potter.
• John Malkovich — Person · 1 mention
• Laurie Metcalf — Person · 1 mention
• Rachel Dratch — Person · 1 mention
• Steven Pressfield — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

• The Subversives Guide to Improvisation — Book · 1 mention · first at 0:47
  Being in the moment connecting really connecting to the person that you're talking to. I wrote a book called The Subversives Guide to Improvisation which has shaken up a lot of…
• The Art of War — Book · 1 mention · first at 11:05
  It's fear. And the moment, and here's fear. I don't know if you ever read the book, The War of Art, not the art of war. The war of art.
• The War of Art — Book · 1 mention · first at 11:05
  It's fear. And the moment, and here's fear. I don't know if you ever read the book, The War of Art, not the art of war. The war of art.
• The Legend of Bagger Vance — Book · 1 mention

Companies & orgs

• Second City — Company · 6 mentions · first at 0:07
• Proven Podcast — Company · 1 mention · first at 0:00
  Welcome to the Proven Podcast, where it does not matter what you think, only what you can prove. David Rosowski, the improvisation teacher and former artistic director of Second City Los.
• Second City Los Angeles — Company · 1 mention · first at 0:07
  What you can prove. David Rosowski, the improvisation teacher and former artistic director of Second City Los Angeles, has discovered that authentic connection and radical listening close more deals than any script ever could.
• davidrosowski.com — Company · 1 mention
• Steppenwolf Theatre Company — Company · 1 mention

Products & tech

• ADD Comedy with Dave Rosowski — Product · 1 mention
• Martin D-15 — Product · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

• Body Language — Concept · 6 mentions · first at 5:22
• negotiation — Concept · 4 mentions · first at 3:18
• Viewpoints — Concept · 3 mentions · first at 6:05
  Theatrical improvisation for them and they turned me onto this one concept which are called the viewpoints and there are nine viewpoints and the nine viewpoints I know it…
• Radical listening — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 0:11
  Artistic director of Second City Los Angeles, has discovered that authentic connection and radical listening close more deals than any script ever could.
• Tactical empathy — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 10:35
• Rosetta Stone — Concept · 1 mention · first at 6:50
• Kinaesthetic response — Concept · 1 mention
• Microexpressions — Concept · 1 mention
• Tabula rasa — Concept · 1 mention

Places & events

• Los Angeles — Place · 4 mentions · first at 0:07
  What you can prove. David Rosowski, the improvisation teacher and former artistic director of Second City Los Angeles, has discovered that authentic connection and radical listening close more deals than any script ever could.
• Philippines — Place · 2 mentions · first at 35:28
• United States (states) — Place · 2 mentions · first at 48:57
• Chicago — Place · 1 mention · first at 5:52
  Was asked by one of the most famous improv I'm sorry one of the most famous theaters in Chicago Steen Wolf Theater where John Malovich came in and like all the Lori Metcap they…
• Sweden — Place · 1 mention · first at 48:57
  Be next to each other very different than someone who is from Denmark or Sweden or Finland or even the United States. We as Americans, we want a very large birth. We just give me my space.
• South Florida — Place · 1 mention · first at 49:07
  Don't come close to me. If I'm in a situation down here, because I live in South Florida, if when I'm dealing with a Latin culture, Venezuela, Colombia, all that, it's much…
• Colombia — Place · 1 mention · first at 49:09
  Situation down here, because I live in South Florida, if when I'm dealing with a Latin culture, Venezuela, Colombia, all that, it's much closer. If I have someone, because I…
• Venezuela — Place · 1 mention · first at 49:09
  Situation down here, because I live in South Florida, if when I'm dealing with a Latin culture, Venezuela, Colombia, all that, it's much closer. If I have someone, because I…
• Belfast — Place · 1 mention · first at 50:39
  About I bring my Mishagas to Turin or to Rome or to England or, to any of these, Belfast? And one of the things and I got gigs because of who because of my provenence. And one…
• Berlin — Place · 1 mention · first at 51:04
  Has a special facial relationship the way that Americans do, one of my first gigs in Berlin and a guy went and so I'm hired in Berlin. I don't really know this person. And I…
• Middle East — Place · 1 mention · first at 51:22
  And you got to debrief it. Like before I went to the Middle East or the sandbox, I was debriefed before this interaction that when a man holds another man's hand, which in the United States, we're I'm sorry, what? Why are you.
• France — Place · 1 mention · first at 52:29
  Understand why everyone hates the French because I've never had problems with the French, but when I was in France, I would sit there like and they're Okay, you're trying.
• Rome — Place · 1 mention
• Turin — Place · 1 mention

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Welcome to the Proven Podcast, where it does not matter what you think, only what you can prove. David Rosowski, the improvisation teacher and former artistic director of Second City Los Angeles, has discovered that authentic connection and radical listening close more deals than any script ever could. The show starts now. All right, everybody, welcome back. I'm really excited to have Dave on the show. Thank you so much for being here.

0:22 It's great to be here. So, for a lot of people, they don't know who you are. They don't know what you do. Let's get everybody kind of caught up for the people who've been living under a rock. Who are you? What have you done?

0:30 My name is David Rosowski and I teach improvisation. I have been known and I hate this phrase. Somebody said that. It's like Rosowski is the improv guru. Um because what I do isn't just teach improvisation. I teach about being aware being in the moment connecting really connecting to the person that you're talking to. Um I wrote a book called The Subversives Guide to Improvisation which has shaken up a lot of the improv world because I'm saying things like improvisation isn't just about getting last. It's about connecting to people on an emotional level. And if you start out by trying to give people the to make people laugh, to make people uh to to make people like you, the first thing that you're going to do is you're going to turn them off because they see it coming. They just see it coming a million miles away. Most improvisation, as we talked about a little earlier, when people weren't listening to you and

1:16 me, is most improvisation is crap. And it's just horrible and it's really, really hard to watch. Why? Because people are trying too hard. They're just trying too hard. Can you just for a minute be? Can you just be for a minute? Just don't worry about what the outcome is. Just be with me for a minute. So, uh, I go around the world teaching theatrical improvisation, non-comdic improvisation. And I got to tell you, the scenes are hilarious because everybody's being honest and truthful in in the moment. Uh, a little bit about my background. I was at a place called the Second City, which has been called, uh, the Harvard of, uh, improvisation. uh the people that I worked with uh we do sketch we create improvisation scene we create the uh sketch scenes comedy scenes through improvisation so that means that we're writing on our feet we're learning how to connect we're doing it in the moment and the people

2:08 that I work with are people like Steve Carell Steven Colbear Amy Sedaris Rachel Dr. Um, I was uh uh uh I I was coach for Chris Farley. Um I've worked with them all all of them. Uh eventually becoming the artistic director of the Second City of Los Angeles. Uh I've been doing theatrical. I'm 65 years old. I've been doing this since I was 10. And I am not to be screwed with because I just love what I do. And I stopped caring. And the moment that I really stopped caring, I started making money.

2:43 And uh yeah, one of the reasons that I wanted to bring you on because you're like, you know, why are we talking improv? We improv at every moment of every day of our life. And it's about connecting. It's about knowing your purpose and it's showing up authentically. And you know, we talked about this before we started recording that you and I communicate with each other in a very specific way. It's fast, it's simple, and we have to filter it a little bit here because you know, people get upset and Apple blocks things. So, this is you getting a little bit of the un the the filtered version of Dave and I in this one, but what I was talking about was in business, people need how to communicate like this on the fly. They need to be able to connect with their audience. They need to build rapport. You need whatever it is. If it's a negotiation or if you're selling something or if you're leading a

3:21 team, there's so much of the skill set that you have that translates significantly better off stage than I would even say on stage. So through that and you're and you have people what are some of the first things you you teach them other than don't try and be funny. Uh what are some of the things that you walk and say how do you build that connection? How do you show up authentically?

3:40 I started teaching uh I teach an I teach uh every day I teach classes every single day online. Um and I started I had a beginner's class yesterday and the same beginner's class that I have all the time and this is it. I am going to sit in this position whatever it's going to be. I'm just gonna sit here and you're gonna look at me and you're gonna assume what it is that I'm feeling in the moment that that you see me. So, if I'm sitting here with I've got my hand on my chin and my eyebrows are furled like this, I look concerned, right? So, the first thing I want you to do is not to go is to go, okay, here's the thing.

4:14 Nothing comes out of my mouth that first hasn't been dipped in my heart. Think about it. You look at somebody, you empathize with them, you reach them on an emotional level. You meet them where they are. You don't pull them to where you want to be. Because if you pull them to where you want to be, you're they're not going to go. The first thing it goes like, "Get your hands off me." So the first thing that I teach them is read your partner emotionally. Read your partner. Be in relationship to what you see, not what you want. Because the only source of suffering is non-acceptance. The greatest thing you can do is accept the person that's in front of you, what they're offering in that moment. But part of it isn't the end result. It's about being in the moment. You want their money. Yeah, you want their money.

4:58 Get their money. Great. But you know what? That's not that's not your purpose. Your purpose is to make an emotional connection at the beginning and the money will come, man. The money will come.

5:09 I think if your if your goal is this, you have to eliminate their pain. If you want their profit, you have to eliminate their pain. But in order to do that, you have to, as you just said, meet them where they are. Have that conversation. What is what is Susie going on with right now? How is she showing? Learning how to read those micro expressions. Learning how to read body language, learning how to understand that what comes out of your face. If you say banana and somehow she's triggered by banana, you've got to be able to read her body language. Oh, I said banana and her eyes crossed or she scratched her ear or whatever the heck it is. Say, okay, I've triggered her. So, it's it's I love that you said meet them where they are. You didn't say meet them where you are and drag them through it.

5:42 No, no, no. And one of the things that uh so I was uh when I was when I was the uh artistic director of Second City I was asked by one of the most famous improv I'm sorry one of the most famous theaters in Chicago Steen Wolf Theater where John Malovich came in and like all the all the Lori Metcap they all came from there and I was asked to teach non- theatrical improvisation for them and they turned me onto this one concept which are called the viewpoints and there are nine viewpoints and the nine viewpoints I know it sounds hyperbolic but it codifies everything. the nine viewpoints, how you're standing, how you're sitting, how you're moving, how you're talking, how what's your tempo, how how much are you quiet, like it codifies every one of those things. So then when you're looking at somebody, I'm watching you right now, Charles, and you're nodding. And you're nodding connects with me. And that's called

6:26 gesture. You're nodding, it connects with me, and you're saying, "Mhm." And that's a gesture. And I'm talking at this elevated tempo, which is one of the viewpoints, right? It's one of the viewpoints, and it's an elevated tempo. And it it charges you. It connects with you. And so when I teach improvisation, the first thing I do is teach this theatrical trick. And it's a Rosetta Stone. The Rosetta Stone is this. How is your partner sitting? That's called shape. How are they leaning? Are they coming? The moment that you say something, you recognize the kinesthetic response in them because you said banana. And if they if they have a kinesthetic response to banana, you go, I'm going down the banana. I'm going down the banana route. I'm going down the banana route.

7:10 You know, sorry it's it's mingling, right? It's my Did you see my edited song to that swear? I went, you know, the moment that I said got to be in the moment and listening. If you are if you are you going my plan is this, you're missing out on what's happening now.

7:29 Yes. And it's it's about mirroring their how you interact with them and understanding because you and I talk our tempo's very quick. The way that we have

7:38 this is just who we are. If we bring in Luzy and she talks more like this and this is how she communicates and she slows things down. We're going to slow with her. We're going to meet where she is. We're not, as you said earlier, meet them where they are. Don't drag them. We are trying to get there. Because so many people come in and they're like, "Oh, I've got this thing. I'm going to negotiate on this. This is my sales pitch." If the person is a 90year-old person and they operate at this speed, at this level, you've lost them. You're never going to close that deal ever.

8:05 Well, you know what this is like. Now, I have I have a podcast called ADD Comedy with ADD Comedy with Dave Bazowski. The name was uh I just came into it with the name. And one of the things that I that I noticed is when I would have a guest on and they had a project and it was a friend of mine, say it was a friend of mine who just did a movie and they had a project and I'm like, "So, how's it going? You know, what's going on? How are you? I know you just had a baby." And it's like, "Yeah, I just had a baby." And then they click into I have to I have to sell my product. Yeah. But the moment that I was starting to do don't drop the soap, the toilet drama that I have, the prison drama that I have on CBS and I got about time just like, "Hey, hey, hey, Donnie, where are you? You're no longer connected with me." And at that point, I don't want to have a relationship with you.

8:51 And I think the same business as well. If you're there's so many times I I was doing intro calls, you know this, we do intro calls before we talk to someone because we want to make sure you have rapport. I got on the call with somebody. I've known him before and he gets on the call like hey what's been going on and he is just his gut he just destroyed because his father's dying for an hour and a half we didn't talk about anything that he wanted to pitch anything he wanted to bring on the podcast anything he wanted to share talked about his dad we talked about what's going on in his environment and we connected on that because we built a when we did record the podcast it was just hasn't been released yet but it's amazing because it was connected spent the time to meet them where they are

9:25 and I think people do that I don't think they have the rapport so if someone's going to learn how to do this

9:29 can can you hold hot thought cuz I just want to say one thing about that. Very often when I'm asked to be on a podcast, the Pearson tells me what it is that they're the podcast is about and my first thought is I'm not going to do that because we're just going to have a conversation and we're going to go where we're going to go. It's like yeah but there's going to be a time like I got a bunch of questions like I don't want to see your questions ahead of time because if you've got a question you've got a structure and if you've got a structure I'm an improviser and I follow the shiny object you know I'm a crow. I'm not a train, you know. I don't go in a circle and circle. It's like, oh my god, there's something shiny. And so periodically, I'll do what I just did with you, which is, you know, you want to go, forgive me, but it's like I'm inspired by what you said and you know it because of the connection that we

10:09 had. But people don't know how to do that. Like for for I think you know, for you and I for for whatever reason, it's how we authentically show up. There's a lot of people that are so caught up in their own crap that they're like, "Oh, I've got a question. I've got to stay on the question. I've got to do And you see it, you know, you talked about Stephen Cobar before where he's got the the questions, the Stevenair questions about what is your sandwich, what is this, what is that, what and he's got a he's got a very small part that he's going about six minutes to blast through that and he's trying to do this tactical empathy.

10:36 He's trying to engage like, oh yeah, peanut butter and jelly. That's that's a good sandwich. And you know, he's just struggle busing through that idea when he want it just it sucks because you're stuck on that train track versus to your point being a crow. How do we teach people to get the heck off the train tracks? How do we teach people to actually show up?

10:54 What is it, Charles? What is it that stops people from doing what it is that they're that they're inspired to do that they're compelled to do? It's fear.

11:01 Fear. It's fear. And the moment, and here's fear. I don't know if you ever read the book, uh, The War of Art, not the art of war. The war of art.

11:10 The war of art is about, you have a project, what do you want to do? It's the guy who wrote Bagger Vance, the guy who wrote, uh, the screenplay for Bagger Vance, the war of art. and he says there's one thing that gets in the way of what you're doing. Say that you want to be a writer. What's the first thing that most people do? I better take a writing class or there's a book on writing. All right, I better take another writing class. I better have a writing partner. It's like, so what is that one thing? That one thing is called resistance. And it's resistance every single step of the way. What is it that you want and what's stopping you? And here's the thing that you learn in improvisation. The word no doesn't mean no. And I'm not getting, you know, I'm not I'm not saying I'm not saying that anything

11:51 other than this. The word no is not the word no is is it's it's not going to kill you. It's a stopping point. It's a stop sign. And when you have a stop sign, you stop and you go, "What are my options now? What do I have on the table now? What is it?" Because all that they said was no. They didn't say, "We know where you live and we know where your child goes to grammar school.

12:13 We're not going to let your your kid on fire. We're not going to blow up your no and pivot. I don't think people even know how to pivot.

12:20 I think that So, let's go. Let's go to the pivot. Let's go to the pivot. When you recognize that somebody has to pivot, that moment that you pivot, you wouldn't expect that moment that you'd have to pivot. So, what does that ask you to do? It asks you to be it asks you to be inspired to go, how else can I look at this thing? And why don't why am I afraid of not looking at because I don't know what's going to come next? Well, you know what? And you said it earlier.

12:42 We improvise every every day. We improvise and I don't know what's going to come earlier. Anybody who's watching, I'm sorry. Anybody who's listening this podcast now might have had an idea of what this is going to be like.

12:52 And we just prove them wrong. Absolutely. And they're not even. And that's what I love because we're just going to be and be and I'm not going to drag you where I want you to. You're not and we're going to play back and forth. It's a it's a tennis match. But people don't have this skill. And I think you're right. They're terrified. They're so afraid to mess up. I mess up before I even get out of bed.

13:14 I I brush my teeth the wrong way. I mean, just it is what it is. You just Yeah. It's the It's the same of a woman. Uh what was it? He goes, "When you when you're tangoing and you get tied up, you just keep tangling on." It's the

13:26 just keep going. For sure. For sure. And And nothing that we do, nothing that we know how to do didn't come with us failing. Didn't come with us falling. We know how to walk because we learn how to fall. That's how we do it. And and so so I got to tell you, if you look at the road, if you look at the road that brought you right here to having a conversation with me,

13:49 I'm going to say there were five things that you were disappointed in that you pivoted that brought you to me, that brought me a zero into the back of that. I There's a lot. Yeah, I failed. I tell people all the time, the only way to succeed is to fail. You got to fail your way.

14:04 Absolutely. Just like with talking. No one sits there and looks at their kid and says, "Oh, here's little Billy." And they fall down 10 times like, "Well, that's it. We're just gonna get him a wheelchair." We don't do that. He's got to figure out how to freaking walk%.

14:17 But in when somebody can't walk, the first when when somebody doesn't know how to walk, the first thing you don't the first thing the first thing you don't do is look for wheelchairs for them,

14:25 right? You go, we're going to figure out how to make you how we're going to figure out how to walk. Unless there's something chronic wrong with them,

14:32 right? And then there's ways to fix that. You know, there's things you can do with that as well, but we don't do that. Our school system rips that out. They're like, "Oh, you didn't get a good grade. You're going to detention. You're a failure." They take it of a failure. I remember I was working with a guy who was a special force guy, really nice guy. He said to me, he goes, "Your fear is your shoreline. It's what's going to bring you home. Whatever you're afraid of,

14:52 that's what you need to do next. It's a non-negotiable." And and and I think the thing right there is to go, is not to think of what the cir not to think about what the consequences are if you don't do it. that thing that that scares you. You go that's going to scare me. That scares me. Okay, let's just take that thing. That scares me. It's not that scares me, which means that I might not be able to, which means I won't be able to, which means I'm going to be able that that that definition of worrying. Worrying is is worrying is rehearsing for something that you hope doesn't happen. And it's like take that thing and go because you're going to keep coming back to that. I got to do this. I got to do this. sending you down the time you do that that you go this is what I have to do just bloody do it

15:37 yes look like an idiot make the mistakes who cares you're not going to you're going to die one day sooner or later I spent eight years in aospice watching people die sooner or later you're going to die it is what it is this is probably not going to kill you that not getting that deal not having good conversations not hitting on the girl and getting her phone number not getting the job it's not going to be and you're not going to remember it take it from someone who's failed a lot more than succeeded. It's going to it is what it is. So, if we've got someone we got two things right now, right? We've got them to say

16:05 show up where they are. Meet them where they are. Throw that out of the window. When you teach people, what are some of the exercises? They So, listen, this these are bulletproof. These just work. These are proven. We know this works. Come hell or high water. If I've got someone who's got paralysis with this, what do you walk them through? How do you make them do whatever they're going to do?

16:24 I'll give an example. Okay, let's say um well, first I'm going to tell I'm first I'm going to let them know about something called the kinesesthetic response. Kinesesthetic response is something that happens physiologically to your body when when uh when some kind of stimulus comes in. And the stimulus could be whatever. It could be a smell of a fart. It could be a smell of chocolate chip cookies. It could be somebody saying your name. It could be, you know, you hear a gunshot or a shot or something like that. It stops you in your tracks. It takes your breath away.

16:50 It takes your breath away. you you know because if and one of the things that I say is when your respir when your respiration changes it's because your inspiration's changed. So what I will have these people do is I'll go all right let's do this. Let's just do this. There's a lot just way too much going on. Okay. Um you ever go to overnight camp

17:10 and they'll go now this is this is the exercise that's how good of an actor like have you have heard overnight camp? And someone will go no I I never was. It's like, "Did you have friends going to the overnight camp?" And they, "Yeah." And it's like, "What did you like about just like how what was that like going to knowing that all your friends are going to have the summer time of going to overnight camp?" And they would just they I was distracting them. And what I'm looking for in that in that distraction, in that journey that they're going down, is for this, and it happens every single time, Charles, they're going to say a word that's going to stop them, and they're going to have a con, they're going to have a a kinesthetic response to something. And the first thing I do is I go, "Look, look what you just did." You were in flow. The moment that you knew that there the moment that you thought

17:55 that there was no product that you had to deliver or nothing that you had to show,

18:00 you were your authentic. Now, let's talk about the audience. Did y'all watch him have that kinesthetic response? Did y'all watch him bumper at that one word, whatever it was, bathing suit or whatever it was? And it's like, yeah. It's like that's that's our northern star. That's the moment that we go, tell me about bathing. Like, why did that bother you? And then suddenly they are affected by something. They're having a conversation that they didn't know they were about to have. They're investing in something that they didn't think that they were going to invest in.

18:30 I don't mean financially. I mean giving energetically. And everybody is walking away from something with an experience that they didn't have before. So, the first thing that I teach them is be aware of your body. And how do we do that? Be in flow. You know, I'm going to give you something. I'm giving you something great.

18:46 It appears that there's no there's no risk. There's no risk. We're just we're just talking. We're just yammering. That's all.

18:53 And if it if it doesn't, that's cool, too. But I think again, it goes back to what you said. It's not about you in this situation. Be enough flow of yourself, but also see the other person and see, okay, what what happened there? What did they do? Did their eyebrows just shoot up? Did they look away? Right?

19:06 Did they throw their arms back? What's going on? Because they're giving you signals. We're coding. everything that you just everything that you just said eyebrows going up that's that that you know that's a gesture they move back that's called spatial relationship that their body change called that's called shape and the more that you know going in that we are we we are um we are expressing ourselves with our body

19:29 more words far more absolutely 100% and so when I teach people that I'm going what if you what what if what if the goal the end goal wasn't to get a laugh What if the end goal was just to have just just to land with and hang out with somebody for two minutes

19:46 and then they get I could do that. It's like, okay, great. That's called improvisation.

19:50 And but I think so many people on improv or or not on stage are so focused on being the train, right? Being on that rails. This is what I have to do. Mine's fine. Nine's fine. Nine's fine. I'm so stuck on this very organized way of doing it. They just don't let go. And it screws up in business, screws up negotiation, screws up improv. Um, I also think that, and we were talking about this beforehand, there are certain people who are gifted, beautiful geniuses when it comes to improv. And then there's the rest of the planet because there are certain things you got to know that you don't make a fish climb a tree. There's certain things I just don't do. It just is what it is. I am 6 feet tall with size 13 feet. I cannot dunk a basketball to save my life. I don't get on a basketball court. I just I'm just not good at I I've made peace with the fact that I am not a good basketball player. Now, you give me a

20:36 baseball. I used to be able to throw it at 92 miles an hour. Cool. This works. I'm not going to sit there and beat myself down and try and beat LeBron James. I'm just not good at it. So, knowing that if your gifts are, hey, I'm a great improv guy. Awesome. I'm a great sales guy. Awesome. I'm not a great mechanic. Don't go be a mechanic. Get the hell off the stage. You're just not funny. Leave. Don't be the sales guy. If you suck at it, pay someone.

21:01 But here's the but here's the thing. So, I want everybody to do improvisation and I will take anybody on. I will take anybody on. And as as an as an improv coach, as an improv director, as as an improv teacher, as an improv actor, I will play with anybody

21:16 because I feel like I can connect with you on the level that you're I can connect with you at the place that you're going to.

21:23 Okay, go. So, I think what you just said there was it doesn't matter. I'm gonna show up and I'm gonna meet them there and I can help and I can connect with anyone. And I think in business people don't do that. People don't say, "Oh, well this person I we have different backgrounds." Shut up. What is your ability to connect? If you can in even if you completely disagree with each other because right now we're recording this and there's some political changes going on. Even if you fundamentally disagree with the other side, don't try and agree with them. Just try and connect. If you can't connect them, you can lose a block.

21:57 I have a neighbor. He's right over there. I have a neighbor who is of a very different political ben than I am and is very very vocal and dresses the dress and wears a hat. All right. So, he's my neighbor.

22:12 He's my neighbor and soul to the earth. Charles, you and I can talk about I got my hands three feet away. I, you know, like you and I can talk three feet

22:23 with my neighbor. I could talk an inch. But there's that edge. Yes. Find the inch and you're going to find the inch by meeting them at their don't drag him to your inch. This just has got really Don't come to your inch. Go to his inches, not your inches,

22:36 right? Yeah. So, so you know, we connected. He's he's a chef. We love food. He's got a cat. We've got cats. I I bought a guitar the other day. He's got the same exact guitar, a Martin D15, you like the same exact guitar. So, it's like, let's jam. It's like, let's jam, but I ain't singing some songs that you want to sing, and I don't expect you to sing the songs that I want to sing,

22:56 right? Don't force your truth upon someone else. Meet someone. No. And it's also I'm not here for that. I'm not here for that, man.

23:03 So in business though, when we do this, when someone's trying to do this, one of the mistakes I see all the time is they're forcing their narrative. So they're not meeting the person where they are. They're not see the room where, you know, we do this in negotiation. The thing that you think is really important for your negotiation, they don't care. They couldn't

23:20 they couldn't possibly care in any way, shape, or form. You have to find out that, hey, if you're negotiating for this building and in this negotiation, we're going back and forth and this was their building, this was their thing, and say, listen, I know you don't want to leave this. This was your mother's legacy. I'm going to make sure in contract we put in here. The building will be named after your mother for perpetuity, forever. Just all of a sudden, I'm going to get that for a million dollars less than somebody else because I identified their pain. And I did that by spending the time to connect with them and read their body language and do those things. And people think, "Oh, well, improv's just for stage." No, you put you improv every moment of every day. None of this was prepared. You just

23:57 None of this is regret. And one of one of the goals in improvisation in in any improvisation is to make this I'm sure that there's a there's there's there's a a meeting point here. But to make what it is that you're improvising look like look like it was written

24:14 is is to improvise at such a level that your flow is authentic. And the way that you do that is you make sure that everything you're about to say comes out of your heart. comes out of empathy, comes out of the feeling that you feel and the moment you feel those feelings. And the important thing my one of my mantras is feel the feelings you're feeling the moment you feel those feelings which means that feelings are fluid and when they're fluid when we understand they're fluid and just because I'm holding on to it for a moment doesn't mean that I have to hold on to it forever because I have to be ready for something to happen that is going to throw me off that is going to have make me pivot but at that moment that's why I'm doing this. Yes, I'm doing it for the money, but I'm also doing it to go I'm I'm going to connect with you and feel what you're feeling in that moment and pivot in that moment.

24:56 And if you don't connect and you don't embrace pivot, consistent pivot, you lose. I talk about this all the time. Opportunities of a lifetime only matter in the lifetime of the opportunity period because it's going to go and it's going to pivot out. You talk about exercises in your book and I got access to your book and I was going through those. Could you walk people through something that you do even if they're just listening to this right now or watching you and I go back and forth? Uh, what are some of the exercises as you walk through that get people to go, "Okay, I get it. I have to know how to connect. I've never been able to do that for whatever reason. They grew up and their dad used to beat them with a 2x4 or whatever their story is where they can divorce that story where they can sit down and say, "Hey, these are exercises that I can start practicing with myself, my kids, my wife, my dog,

25:34 my husband, whatever it is that they can start doing that really kind of start moving that needle." It sounds so simple, but it's like the next time you have a conversation with somebody, watch them, not just watch your eyes. To be present to every single bit that they move, how they move, how they look, how they're responding to you, where their eyes go. And that's all that matters. That's the greatest exercise right there. And you could do that with your partner. You can do that with your family. Or you could just sit at a cafe and watch two people have a conversation. and to and to and to be an audience member and to just assume the hell out of what the situation is. And what I mean by that,

26:17 when you're not a part of it, build a story. See what who's going on. Try to make it up.

26:20 Absolutely. Absolutely. And recognize that whatever it is that either of those people are doing, you do it, too.

26:28 Also, I think I think to that understanding that if some book told you that when a person crosses their arms, it means this. No, each person has different triggers and different momentum and different things. I sit with my arms crossed like this when I'm listening to someone. You've already done it. We were talking back. You lean back and you folded your arms. That's just a place and you're listening. But if you go listen to a book, they're going to tell you, "Oh, your arms are crossed. You're deflected."

26:51 No, that's not true for everyone. They say, "How do you understand when someone's lying? Oh, they look this way." No, they don't. It's a breaking pattern. But if you haven't identified their pattern, you lose.

27:00 That's it. It's a breaking pattern. and to recognize that break-in pattern to recognize when somebody has a kinesthetic response and to recognize the the the the um uh the evidence of that. And the evidence is like someone had their arms crossed and then you say something and they uncrossed their arms. It's like, "Oh, they no longer feel that way now." Or they didn't have a gesture. They they they weren't doing I'm I'm swinging my hand in the air. They were swinging their hand in the air and then they suddenly went, "But you know, my mother wasn't there." And then you take the the they take their hand down and you go, "Mother made them stop that.

27:31 mother is where I'm going to go into this conversation. Yes. And I love there's there's massive science. This isn't stuff that we just made up. This is science. One of my favorite exercises they do with this is they they take a girl um they don't boys do too, but they take a girl, she has a cup in her hand and she has a pad of paper and she goes up and says, "Hey, can I ask you some questions?" And they say, "Yeah, of course." She goes, "Well, can you hold this for me?" She'll hand them the cup and she'll write down questions. She does this in two different narratives. One's with a warm cup, one's with a cold cup. And then when they're done, the person walks away. Another person will go and say, "Listen, we just hired Susie. What was your general feeling of her? How did you feel about her?" When it's a warm cup, they're like, "You know, we felt like she was warm and friendly and connected

28:07 to us." If it's a cold cup, they're like, "We felt cold and distant." Human beings are predictable. There are very specific things you can do. And if you don't believe that human beings are predictable, go to the your any of your colleges or the library or the internet and look behavioral science. We we're very

28:23 I think the lesson there was always carry around a warm cup and give it to somebody when you're talking to them. I think that that's a rule that we can all live with is never have a conversation with a stranger unless you give them a warm cup of something.

28:39 Well, it's it's funny you bring that up. When I when I'm sitting down and I'm negotiating deals, um if I get if the deal gets stuck, and they're all going to know this now, but if the deal gets stuck, I'm like, "Hey, you know what, guys?" I'm like, "I'm sorry. I'm really hungry. do you guys know what foe is? And they're like, what fo? I was like, yeah. I'm like, I'm just can we just stop? I need to go eat and I will go take them for this big bowl of foe and the deal will close at the table 90% of the time. My team knows when I'm doing like go close the deal now because it got stuck and I need something to break pattern

29:07 and I absolutely just it's a simple thing. And I think one of the things one of the ways to do that certainly in improvisation is to make sure that it doesn't seem like you're doing that. And um and and for me, usually there's something where if you're really listening to somebody, you start you start you start u accumulating inventory. What is it that we talked about? And the important thing is to go like to to make sure that you remember every single thing that the person has been saying and what they got to them so that if you ever need to make a pivot, you pivot with the inventory that you have. But I do like fa and I will go I will I will if you and I are negotiating I am going to be a stickler at one point just so that you buy my lunch.

29:48 Right. That's fine. I'll buy you lunch. It'll be one of the things you talk about inventory. Um I you know I know what I think inventory is. I'd love for you to break down kind of what is that inventory when you're when you're reading someone when you're trying to be there and trying to meet them where they are. What is the inventory that you're cataloging in your head? Uh the inventory would be like what gestures do they make? How is it that they respond to me? If if they if I notice that they aren't having eye contact with me and every once in a while I'll go is that eye contact because they're distracted or is that eye contact because they're not confident? Is that eye contact because they're they've got some kind of chronic disease like like that sort of thing. Uh I will also notice how well are they listening. Um because very often I'm just going to go if I have a kinesthetic response and they don't stop I'm going

30:35 to go this is uh that is the way that is who it is that they are. So each person gets a different way of react. Each person respon I respond to each person differently because I'm seeing everybody as a clean slate. There's something called toblerasa which is really important in improvisation. Tobarasa means an empty slate. At the beginning of every improv scene you want to have an empty slate. You don't want to come in with a bunch of different things because the more things that you come in with, the more clogged you are going, I have to say this, I got to do that, I can't do this, I can't do this. And what's happening in all of those things, and this has to do with my book where I'm going, screw the rules, screw the improv rules. And the improv rules are say things like, you've got to say yes and you can't talk about people who aren't there, and you can't ask questions, like all these improv rules.

31:17 So these improv rules, what are they doing? And the same thing happens in business where you can't do this, you must do this, you have to do this. But while we're going through that, while we're listening, nothing that person is saying is coming through to me or very little of it's coming through to me because it's all going through filters that I've brought in because I haven't been tabularasa. All these filters that are coming in so that I'm not being my authentic self. I'm uh I'm I'm I'm uh censoring myself or I'm keeping track of, oh, I have this amount of time. I've got to accomplish this before I leave.

31:50 And I wonder not them. And and for those of you say I'm sorry to tell, say that again, please

31:55 because it's you're making it about you instead of about them. And for those of you who are watching the video, um go back when you said Tom Marasa, I tilted my head to the side. I did the the dog and

32:06 immediately was like, he doesn't know what that means. I need to because he was there. He immed oh head tilt I know what that means. He just have a puppy like uh oh let me explain it because he doesn't know because he was here

32:18 and you right and you didn't say wait a minute Dave I don't know what this is to Rosa I watched you do that and I wasn't watching you I didn't I won't get that cue and it's a Q man it's a Q it's like in in theater where you've got in theater in in in in movies and theater in anything you've got a cue I say this you say that but the important thing another important thing is to So, let your partner finish what they're talking about. And that's a major thing, too. Are you interrupting someone in the middle of their thought? Because you assume that what they're you assume you know what they're going to say. And the example that I give is there's a difference in two sentences. I love eating pears and I love eating pairs of pants. You know, you're going to want to have somebody put the full stop at the end of that to go, how do I respond to that?

33:12 Yeah. And it says, "I eat pairs of pants." I'm like, "Um, you okay there? You need a hug?"

33:16 Right? I eat pair. I like pairs. And you stop them there and you go, "I like pairs. I like pairs, too." It's like, "No, you didn't let me finish talking. I like pairs of pants."

33:25 Right? And then you got a massive disconnect from that point. And what'll be interesting is people listening to this right now will see you and I are interrupting each other all the time. And that's our dynamic. We can do that because we feel confident enough to say, "Oh, let me finish that. Let me go back to that." Because you've already done it a couple times. Let me go back to that. Let me finish that thought. I have something else I want to say because it's a it's the way you and I communicate. I can't do this way of communicating with a lot of people because certain people just they don't play that way. Awesome.

33:50 I I I I also think that when you get two people who've done as many podcasts as you and I have done, we understand how to have an interview, how to connect with people. Because if I go back to because I was uh my podcast that I I did and I stopped it when I started writing my book. Um I I had I don't know you know I had 250 guests on it and if I really want to embarrass myself I would go back to the very first interview I had which was with Tom Dreon. Tom Dreon who was uh he was a comedian who opened up for this guy 17 years opened up for this guy called

34:22 Frank Sinatra really. So he was my first guest. my first guest and I'm listening to it and I keep going uhhuh uhhuh uhhuh uhhuh and it's like I'm listening going shut up Rowski because every time you go uhhuh you're stopping the flow of what he wants to say. So one of the things just in terms of business is go are you going uhhuh or are you nodding and giving visual cues that want your partner to go on? Watch somebody who interviews watch watch somebody interviewing someone um watch I'm sorry. Watch a news reporter interview someone who just got indicted for some crime. That reporter I have a background in my I have a I have a degree in journalism. That reporter is not going to nod. They're not going to say uhhuh because they want that person to keep talking.

35:13 You want your you want your client, you want your your customer to keep talking, to keep the dialogue going.

35:24 I was I was sitting there. I was in So people I work with are in the Philippines and it's a culture thing in the Philippines. They'll say, "Uh-huh. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Uh-huh." about 15 times in my sentence. And I'll stop. I was like, "What's going on?" They're like, "What do you mean?" They're like, "It's a sign of respect." I was like, "No, it's not. You're breaking my train of thoughts. Shut the up. You're killing me. Josh shut. I'm like, "Oh my god, you're understand, you know, again, meeting them where they are. That culture for them, that's how they communicate." For us, for seen is it's massively disrespectful. And I just want to walk around, please, because it drives me out of my mind. I have I have I have I have an improv partner and she that I play with and she and I can talk over each other in every single improv scene. But there's a skill set that you go can I talk and can I talk and listen at the

36:13 same time and that's a skill set and most people only talk to talk or they listen to talk. They listen for their cue. They listen to when they butt in versus again this all comes back to meet them where they are. And you can't meet them where they are if you're not listening. And I'm not talking about listen to what they say. Listen how they move, how they're breathing. People don't get that. Where someone breathes is huge because when someone comes to me and because when other entrepreneurs come to me, most entrepreneurs don't have bad days. They have days where they don't want to have any more days.

36:40 They're just it's it's one it's the second highest um not wanting to live because I can't say that other word because people get freaked out. Um not wanting to live in this environ. So they'll sit there and I'll watch their breathing. Are they breathing high up? Are they breathing in their gut? You'll sit there and if you get to it, you'll get to the point where not only you can see their breath, you can see their pulse and you can actually see it on where they're doing and what they're going. And as you've said, these are your cues. They're giving you bazillions of cues. Just shut up and pay attention.

37:06 Just sit there and open it up long enough, get off your train track, and get over to it.

37:10 Right. So then to go back to what you were saying about like where how can the average lay person uh use these skill sets uh in say business or something like that and in in negotiation conversation and and what what I'm getting from our conversation is this. It's like just be present, just watch what's going on, just be excited that there's going to be a pivot. And and and if you have the confidence and coming in with the confidence, the confidence includes empathy and and a skill set of of um uh of radical listening,

37:50 you're going to succeed. And you're not just going to succeed in a shallow way. You're going to establish relationships that have depth, that have depth, and not just depth, but width. And the width is the depth is in your heart. The width is in community. You're going to be able to connect with people who will connect with people. And this isn't about smoozing, you know, because if you come in with the with the idea of like, I'm going to smoo, it's like, I see you coming a mile away, man.

38:24 Everybody does. If you're trying to sell me something, everyone gets it. So, when we're going through this, if we have these things, I'd still love to be able to give some people some tactical stuff. Like, we sat there and we gave them very specific things. Meet where they are, you know, learn how to read, learn how to do tactical empathy, learn how to do these things, which are which are fine, but you've done stuff which most people can't do. You I've watched you improv before. I've watched shows. I've seen lessons that you've done. I've talked to people that you've taught. you have a gift of being able to do it radically quickly. So for those of you who don't know what an improv are, first off, go see an improv show. They'll sit there and someone will walk out and they'll say, "Hey, I need the name of a person and a name of a where they are and something that's going on." And then they're going to build all of that. So

39:08 the person is on stage. They have no idea what they're talking about. They are the they are the they're everything. They're the director. They're the writer. They're the makeup guy. They're everything all at once. And they're doing it live while playing with someone else who's doing it at the same time. That's a skill set most individuals haven't mastered. You clearly haven't. When we're doing this and you teach your students, what are some of the things that when you're working with your students, they're like, you know what, this exercise when we do this, this, and this really kinds of move the needle for them when they're sitting in your courses.

39:42 Um, well, there's that one that I just described. Uh, one of the exercises that I that I do, uh, the very first exercise that I do is, and maybe I talked about it, I'm got a lot on my mind because we also I live in Los Angeles where there are fires right now. So, what I'll do is, and I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to stand up here and uh, and and for those people in radio land, um, I'm 5'6, but you know, but I'm 5'6, but let's just say I'm 6'4 and I'm very muscular. That has nothing to do with anything. So, what I'm going to do uh is this. The first thing that I did and certainly in the class that I did yesterday, and I think we talked about it a little bit, was I'll just stand here like this. Let me just say in the improv classes that I teach, I don't take suggestions. I don't go give me a place, give me a thing, give me an activity. I don't do that. What I do is I just have somebody stop and just

40:30 stand. And then I'll have the person that's you watching this, I I say to them, "What do you need to tell me based upon how I'm standing?" And I like that you just literally you just did two different poses. When you first did it, you did superperson pose. You just did one super your arms out on the sides, hand on the hips. For those of you who are not watching this, now you've got um arms are crossed, but there's a holding of an elbow. And this is important.

40:55 Absolutely. There's a difference of your arms crossed and folded inside each other versus arm cupping the other hand.

41:02 Like I'm gonna say this for those people uh who are watching it. This I've got I've got my hand on my I got my hand on my arm and I've got five fingers that are visible.

41:12 This guy is not this. Right now, what I just said to those who aren't watching is like I tucked my thumb into my armpit. This guy, if we start a scene like this, Charles,

41:24 you're going to have one feel watching what I'm doing. This is a different one.

41:29 Right. Okay. Now, uh so there's this guy, which is different than the guy that I just was a moment ago. Do you know what I did that was differently? Did you see what I did that was different?

41:37 Yeah. Your, if you're reverse to me, your hand went from open on the side back in,

41:42 right? So that guy's not that guy. So the reason I'm saying this is this. Every sing we are non we are we are expressing nonverbal cues in real time.

41:53 And so my first exercise with everybody is just to kind of have everybody move around a circle. This is when I'm doing a class in person. Have everybody move around a circle. Say there's 15 people in the class. Say everybody move around the circle. I will tap two people which means they stay and everybody else goes away. Now immediately we have two people that are in relationship to each other and I'll ask one of them what do you what are you compelled to say? Compelled is really important. It's not what do you think you need to say? What's the funny thing to say? What are you compelled to say? And say one person is looking away and the other person is looking at that person. So what are you compelled to say? What is this this guy compelled to say to the person looking away? And it's like I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

42:33 Oh my god. Like what do we have there? We've got a fantastic scene and what do we want to do? We want all scenes to start in the middle. We don't want to say thank you so much for coming to prom. This is really a great prom date. I'm so glad that the two of us are like and that's the problem that you get in when you get a suggestion as opposed to just what are you compelled to say based upon what's in front of you right now. So when we're looking at what it is that we're we're doing in a business meeting, nobody is air dropped into that meeting.

42:58 People walk through the door in a particular with their wives, their kids, and all that. I'm just saying coming in.

43:06 I'm not I'm not even talking about that. I'm not talking about the the mission gossip they have going on in their life. I'm talking about you're sitting in this meeting and it's like Bob's going to be here in a minute and then the door opens and you watch Bob come in

43:20 and you go which he's walking. Did Bob say hello to me? Is Bob looking at me? Did Bob mention my name? Does it seem that Bob was given information about me based upon how friendly he is with me in this moment? Every single thing matters. And then when Bob comes in, is Bob aiming his body away from me or is Bob aiming his body toward me? Cuz if he's aiming his body away from me, that's a different is that a problem? That's not a problem. That's just something I have to be in relationship to. So all improvisation, I want you to be eager to respond. I don't want you to be eager to talk.

43:54 Yes. And that's a very different thing. It's very different. And and it's funny because in poker, which I'm a horrible poker player, but you'll sit there and you can read who's got a good hand based on when they get their hand, did they look at everybody else's chips.

44:08 It's tell Yeah. It's an absolute tell. And everyone has these tails all day long.

44:12 Everyone has a way. Did I I put it in a very cute way that is annoying is we are the Santaas of Now Town. And what that means is

44:22 we are the Santaas of Now means we are giving gifts every single moment that we're connected.

44:30 That makes sense. I don't know if Santa now, but I I understand it. But you're right. We are we're giving away things 24 hours a day all the time with everything we're doing. Going like this, touching your nose, right?

44:41 Are you playing with your hair? If you if you have your hands covered in front of your crotch, and if I say, "Hey, you know, let's open up your hands." and then you put it behind you and cover your tus, you're still guarding something at that point. There's something that's not resonating and you're creating.

44:52 So I I think I think what you're also bringing in is is this that that we've been talking about watching somebody else,

44:58 but let's also talk about watching ourselves because a major part of this is how are you sitting? How are you standing? What's your gesture? What are you doing with your hands? What are you looking at? How what's your eye contact? What's you what what what gesture do you have on your face? What are your eyebrows doing? What's your tell?

45:16 Because you're telling them and a tell isn't necessarily a bad thing. A tell can also be a good thing.

45:22 To your point, Santa of Nottown. And we go into these things and people don't understand that you can't control an entire audience with how you're standing. For example, if you're talking to the left side of a stage and all and you're focused to the left side of the stage, if you want to open up the right side, everybody else on the other side, just turn your hip to the side, open your leg up. You can keep talking to the left, but now your body's pointing to the right. the right has an illusion that they're no now part of this conversation again

45:46 100%. It's so interesting that you talk about that because I I I have to remember and uh and it's been several years many years since I was on the main stage of Second City but uh the main stage of Second City is 300 320 seats and you do shows eight shows a week and it's packed sold out every every single show. And what what does that mean? You've got you've got you you you're up there on the stage by yourself, but you've got to make it so that everybody feels like they're up there with you or you're in the audience with them. And how do you do that? And it's like you fake having eye contact with people. You fake it going, you know what I mean?

46:26 It's like, I can't see you. You probably think, he knows what I mean. He knows exactly

46:30 right. Exactly. And if he doesn't know what I mean, he's like, you know what I mean. He's like, I don't know what you mean. It's like, this guy does not know. So tell me, why don't you? And then then you you pivot to that

46:40 and you also do identity holds, right? You know, really really smart people. You're a really smart guy. Really smart people buy this. You've now done an identity hold. So now he has to break that goes well I'm not I am smart but I don't really want this but if I don't buy it I'm now stupid. You've now locked him into it because again beings are predictable. So being able to learn these things about human behavior about influence about persuasion about meeting them where it is because you've got three types. There's influence there's persuasion there's manipulation. The first two come down to awareness. Do they know you're doing it or not? The last one is about intent. So, if you're manipulating someone, it normally is for negative intent. And if you don't think this is real for your audience, and Dave's not in here, if you're a wine person, go to a wine store. If you walk in like, "I don't know what I want to

47:20 buy." And you leave buying 10 bottles of French wine. Stop and say, "Wait, what music are they playing?" I guarantee you they're probably playing French music. And they influence you to do that. There's a reason why the stores at a at a at a shopping center are laid out the way they're laid out. That all of this makes sense. There's a reason the ice cream and the cookies is at the end because your willpower just blew out buying the other stuff and now it's ice cream cookie time.

47:42 So people don't understand how predictable humans are. And to your point of being Santa of Downtown, they're constantly giving things away. And if you then it changes the ball game. It's like when two people are talking to each other, where are their feet pointed? If they're pointing directly at each other, don't interrupt that conversation. Do not get in the middle of that conversation. You lose.

47:58 And but you've got to watch it. And you can't just watch somebody's face or eyes. You've got to watch their entire being because again their entire being and and what you just talked about there was if two people are looking at each other in this way, one of the viewpoints is spatial relationship. Spatial relationship is the distance between you and something else. It doesn't have to be a person, but that space in between those people is alive. It's not it's not kinetic energy. I mean, it's it you know it it's what's the opposite of kinetic energy? It's not potential energy. It's kinetic energy. It's working. It's happening. And there's something going on there.

48:34 One of the other things that's really important is you talk about where culture where people are from. You know, we talked about before with the Philippines when you talk about distance between people, you get yourself in a situation

48:43 facial relationship. Facial relationship facial relation. So where people if someone is Latin or someone is India from Indians from you know their distance that they're going to want to be next to each other very different than someone who is from Denmark or Sweden or Finland or even the United States. We as Americans, we want a very large birth. We just give me my space. Don't come close to me. If I'm in a situation down here, because I live in South Florida, if when I'm dealing with a Latin culture, Venezuela, Colombia, all that, it's much closer. If I have someone, because I work with a group of individuals from India, I can count the nose hairs that's in the guy's nose because we're so damn close. You have to understand that as well. Understanding the communicate is huge.

49:24 Yeah. you and again we keep going back to you can't go you've got to go in there with toblerasa with an empty slate because if you're bringing and you've got to recognize you're bringing your culture into what it is that you're doing and those of us one of the things when so we go back to the idea of failure

49:38 and uh I was the artistic director of the second city of Los Angeles for 11 10 years or 11 years and there was a change in uh management

49:47 and the change in management that's autonomy and in the back of my mind I was thinking maybe it's time for me to go And when the universe wants you to clean out your locker, the locker is going to be cleaned out whether you're ready to it or not. And I read the writing on the wall and I decided it was time to leave because they were kicking me out for not anything that I particularly did. I thought I did or they were they were able to to tell me what I did, but they were kicking me out. So at that moment, it was a feeling of what do I do now? This is my livelihood.

50:20 I don't have a parachute. what do I do? And one of the things that I did was call the people that I know in foreign countries that I've worked with and I said, "How about I come to you? How about I bring my Mishagas to uh Turin or to Rome or to England or, you know, to any of these, you know, Belfast?" And one of the things and I got gigs because of who because of my my provenence. And one of the things that I'm really really important is to read up on these things before I come in because part of what I'm doing is major part of what I'm doing is communication. And if I come in going everybody speaks the way and everybody walks the way and everybody has a special facial relationship the way that Americans do, you know, one of my first gigs in Berlin and a guy went and so I I'm hired in Berlin. I don't really know this person. And I go, "How'd it go?" And he goes, "You talk too fast and you're too loud and you get

51:13 everybody's face." And I'm like, "Oh, that's my fault." Yeah, that's my fault 100%.

51:20 And you got to debrief it. Like before I went to the Middle East or the sandbox, I was debriefed before this interaction that when a man holds another man's hand, which in the United States, we're like, "I'm sorry, what? Why are you touching my hand?" When a man holds another man's hand and interlaces the fingers, it is a massive sign of trust. But here in the United States, if you and I were hanging out and I reached over and I held your hand that way, you'd be like, "Um, excuse me. What's happening?" But because I had debriefed and I was told about this by a handler, say, "Hey, this is what's going on. This is what you're walking into." When this individual held my hand, interlaced my hands, and then walked me around where we were, everyone's like, "Okay, don't mess with him. He's under this one's protection. There's trust there." If I wasn't debriefed on that in advance,

52:02 I that I would have blown because I would have ripped my hand away, which would have killed rapport. And

52:06 I it's on me. It's not on someone else. It's on me to understand because, you know, if I go to work, there's things that I can do versus things I can't do somewhere somewhere else. And we mess up these things all the time. People will normally give you the benefit of the doubt once. And if you if you open to saying like everyone hates the French, which I don't understand why everyone hates the French because I've never had problems with the French, but when I was in France, I I would sit there like and they're like, "Okay, you're trying.

52:36 Let's give this a shot. What are you trying to say over?" But since I made an effort and I'm sitting there with a book, they're like, "All right, you stupid American. What are you doing?" And I'm like, "Dude, I just need to

52:46 do that." I I think a major part here is also the ability to go to say this. I I'm sorry.

52:55 Yes, I got it wrong. Yeah, absolutely. There's nothing wrong with that. My bad.

53:01 Right. No matter what it is you're doing. And and again, it goes back to fear where it's like, oh, I can't say that because then they're going to see I'm not powerful or strong and it's like I I like I screw up. It's like that's part of improvisation. That's part of being alive is is

53:14 Yeah. Yeah. you said it's a part of being alive because at the end of the day there's two extremes of this. A it's the acceptance that's part of life and but I also think B at the end of the day the person you roll over in the morning with really doesn't care that you screwed up. They don't care whatever

53:28 fine because that person is ones that matter and going through that. So we're talking about reading reading body language. We're talking about showing up vulnerable. We're talking about you know other things that we've gone through when people mess up the worst in your environment where they're just completely just god I've tried this. I'm not doing well with this. How do you help them pivot back out? Like, listen, I'm so collapsed by fear. I'm so, you know, how do you get them to do this in a way that's joyful for them? Because there's tactics and then there's joyful.

53:56 Hey, I want to go experience. I want to go play again because this was entertaining. How do you get them to come back after failing so far? My first question is, what are you getting out of this? What joy are you getting out of this? What is it that you enjoy doing? And then let's do more of that. And if you can't, you know, because I'm I for me, this is this is a fault that I have and most people accept it. They see some people would see it as a fault. It's like if I'm going to see if I'm teaching somebody and I'm looking and going, they are having an awful awful time.

54:33 I will take the time with them. People want you to take the time with them and to go, what is it that you're getting out of this and let's talk about that. And I also will say this to them. Everything that you've gone through, I've gone through. And the only reason I'm telling you that is you're not alone. You're not isolated.

54:57 I'm watching you and I'm here for you. And I will never ever let you go. And if it gets intense, I will say, and if somebody goes, well, I really suck. It's like, I want you to stop talking to my friend that way.

55:12 What if I told you that you suck? And he goes, I'd be really mad. Then why are you telling that?

55:20 And what what now? Please note, what did I do? I leaned in. My tone got lower. My volume got lower.

55:28 And right um I was teaching a class. I was co- teaching a class with this wonderful teacher, Alex, Alex Alexander Billings, and it was intense. It was really, really intense. And it was a bunch of college students and they were really like they had a lot of energy and they had a lot of emotion. And one guy was having a nervous breakdown. And what Alex did was she stopped everybody, turned the lights down, said to this guy, "What's my name?"

55:56 And he goes, "Right." Where's my shirt? It's burgundy. What does a clock say? It's 2:00. What do you have on your feet? Shoes. What kind of shoes? They're Converse. Great. Bring everybody back to the now.

56:11 Take the moment and bring it back to the now. Let them decide. Let them decide if this is right for them. And if it's not, you know what? You want to go go. It's okay. I also think, you know, collectively, if there was anything that we wanted to talk about with all of this, if we had to if we had to recap it up in one thing, showing up with purpose and showing up present to this moment, not with the idea that I'm bringing you where I want you to go. I'm going to show up present where you are here. Yes, I've got my purpose. Of course, my goal is to monetize or my goal is to do whatever it is. The only way I'm going to get there, and this is something that I think people fail, not only just in business, but in life, it's making it about me. If I'm trying to show up in your life as the leading actor, I have failed. For the old people out there, be Obi-Wan Kenobi. For the young people out there, be Hermione Granger. I don't

57:03 know. Don't try and be Harry Potter. Don't try to be Luke Skywalker. That's not your job. You want to be the best supporting actor in the scene. And the only way you can do that to what Dave's been saying this entire time is being there, reading them, being aware of things, being aware of yourself, and meeting them where they are. There's there's so much of this that's it's just not taught and I wish it was taught. You're the only person I know who teaches the kind of the entire ecosystem. And yes, they're like, "Oh, it's just improv." It's not improv. It's collectively everything how we interact in our lives. If someone wants to get a hold of you and someone wants to take these classes and they want to be part of this idea and this concept and start learning these skills which are not taught in school, that are not taught in this way to be dynamic and to be able to read body language and do

57:47 all these things. If someone's like, "Listen, I don't want to be on impro, but I do want to learn how to do this. I want to master these communication skills so I can be successful in my life on every aspect." How do people hunt you down? How do people get a hold of you? What's the best way?

58:00 Uh I go to my website and uh and uh everybody's website go to my website. On my website, there's a lot of material that you can have. There's a lot of connection that you have and there's also a contact. Just send me an email and I will send you an email. I do most of my work is done uh online. I've got classes Monday. I got classes uh Saturday. I got classes five six days a week. Um and that's the way to connect to me. But uh certainly through through um through my website uh just do contact there and talk to me. I also have a book. My book uh uh you know here's the thing about the book. You read the book, you don't read the book.

58:42 Uh, one of the things about the book when you first read the book is a lot of the skill sets that we have in that book are about connecting to yourself, listening to yourself, being a human being, and when you're talking to people, being a human being, being human, and there's a lot of Buddhist stuff there without being too Buddhisty. Um, it's about dealing with yourself with humor and compassion. Um, but certainly the the book has really proven to be something pretty phenomenal. Um, if you ever if anybody ever just wants to chat, I will I'm always willing to talk about what it is that I'm doing uh and uh beforehand. But I'm a communicator and the way that I communicate is the first the door has to be open. Uh I don't go fishing. Uh the door has to be open and anybody can walk in and talk to me about it. Uh but that's the bottom line.

59:35 If someone was trying to track down where your door is, what is your website and what is the name of the book? have to do that.

59:40 Uh, it's david rosowski.com. That's uh uh uh david rosowski uh sky at the end.com. And my book is called A Subversives Guide to Improvisation. It's available on Amazon or if you're interested in a signed copy. Go to my website and look for signed copies of the book. Uh those are the two ways of doing it. And uh that's it for now. It's in it's in several bookstores as well, but the easiest way to get it is online. I think what I would encourage everybody who's listening to this say, "Oh, well, I I don't know improv." This isn't about improv. This is about communicating in a way that most people haven't mastered and it'll give you such a competitive advantage on so many different levels.

1:00:20 And these are proven things. These are things that I use. This is a reason because we didn't debrief on any of this. Like we're going to go into body language. We didn't do that at all. It's just something that it has been a massive part of my success. Clearly, it's a massive part of your success and the people you've trained who have gone on to be just a little successful. Just a little bit. So, being able to do that, Dave, I can't I can't thank you enough for coming on. I really appreciate it.

1:00:41 What a joy. And uh and thank you for spreading the word, not just what what I'm doing, but what everybody else is doing. Because having listened to a few of your uh podcasts, the takeaway is this. You're you're kind, you're connected, and you just want people to be happy, you know. uh and uh and that bring that's a success that brings success in its very uh by its very uh exercise. So that's great.

1:01:08 Dave didn't theorize about human connection. He mastered it through decades of stage work and real world application. The science is clear. Humans are predictable. Body language reveals everything. An authentic presence beats performance every

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "How to Build Instant Connection - David Razowsky"?

In order: 0:00 Second City, David Rosowski, Los Angeles, Viewpoints; 10:00 Tactical empathy, The Art of War, The War of Art; 20:00 negotiation, Body Language; 30:00 Los Angeles, negotiation, Philippines, Radical listening; 40:00 Second City, Colombia, Los Angeles, Philippines; 50:00 Body Language, Belfast, Berlin, David Rosowski; 1:00:00 Body Language.

What is mentioned in this The Proven Podcast episode?

43 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Second City, Body Language, Los Angeles, negotiation, David Rosowski, Viewpoints. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "How to Build Instant Connection - David Razowsky"?

The episode runs 1 h 1 min; the transcript is about 13,856 words in 162 timestamped sections.

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