Transcript

You are Losing 27 Years to this... - Robin Thurston

From The Proven Podcast · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 56 min · 11,878 words · 104 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "You are Losing 27 Years to this... - Robin Thurston", an episode of The Proven Podcast published February 18, 2026 (56 min, about 11,878 words). It mentions 24 people, works and ideas, including Outside Interactive, Inc., Robin Thirstston, Artificial Intelligence, Matt My Fitness, Aura Ring.

What this episode is about

Robin Thurston (Robin Thirston) discusses building data-driven, audience-focused outdoor platforms through Outside Interactive, detailing his career from elite cycling to tech startups, the acquisition and reintegration of his previous ventures (including Matt My Fitness), and how strategic innovation and community-building create lasting competitive advantage in outdoor lifestyle media.

Key takeaways

  • Outdoor platforms win by weaving data, community, and lifestyle into durable, audience-driven ecosystems.
  • The real risk isn't screens alone—it's the habits they spawn; nature reverses a spectrum of harms.
  • Start small outdoors: shoes off on grass can drop blood pressure in minutes; scale comes later.
  • Chasing scale? Distress assets can become value if you reframe them as purposeful, brand-building assets.
  • We’re biologically wired for horizon-view learning; seven to eight hours of screens misaligns attention and health.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: Outside Interactive, Inc., Robin Thirstston, Matt My Fitness, Under Armour
  2. – 10:00: Forest bathing, Tik Tok, Canada, Sweden
  3. – 25:00: Pickle Ball
  4. – 35:00: Artificial Intelligence
  5. – 40:00: Tik Tok
  6. – 45:00: Burpees, Pickle Ball
  7. – 50:00: Switzerland, Aura Ring, Apple Watch, Brooks Glycerin Flex
  8. – 55:00: Switzerland, Pink Bike Marketplace, Zagal

Notable quotes from "You are Losing 27 Years to this... - Robin Thurston"

  • Outside is a platform to help people get outdoors. That's really the core mission, premise, and sort of vision we have around the organization is we just want people spending as much time as.
    about Outside Interactive, Inc. · at
  • You're just out in nature. now there's a, sort of trending on Tik Tok is like touch grass. this idea that never in human history have we spent as much time indoors as we do right now, ever. And I think that people are realizing that,.
    about Tik Tok · at
  • Argue more than 85% of the business was in non-reoccurring businesses. Today of our revenue, 40% is advertising. 60% is in reoccurring either SAS businesses or subscription…
    about SAS · at
  • Places where it has amazing use for us. Like one example is something like text to audio. Now all of our articles have audio because of AI, right? That's leverage from our…
    about Artificial Intelligence · at
  • Things I've seen with my dear friends, falling all over the floor trying to do these burpees in our boxers and just like this is embarrassing. But it changes bond and exercise.
    about Burpees · at
  • I happen to believe that places like Switzerland and Northern Italy have some of the best cycling in the world, right? But I will tell you, like I just got back from, Maine from the Maine Tourism and Outdoor.
    about Switzerland · at
  • Your mattress like and how it helps you sleep. I've been an Aura user, Aura Ring user since the very beginning.
    about Aura Ring · at
  • So, it can tell you how much time you're outdoors. It literally can measure how much time you're in sunlight. So like I love that just from a ability to give you insights on are you spending time.
    about Apple Watch · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Robin Thirstston — Person · Main guest · 2 mentions · first at
    He explains his mission to get people outdoors, his acquisition strategy for distressed media assets, and how Outside Interactive shifted to subscriptions/SaaS while selectively adopting AI.
    My name is Robin Thirstston. I'm the CEO and founder of Outside Interactive.
  • Albert Einstein — Person · Referenced historical figure · 1 mention · first at
    Used in an anecdote about brain folds and intelligence to frame concerns about screen time and child development.
    Been talking about for a while and one of the guys came in. We talked about it when Einstein died. They dissected his brain and the main thing they found is that he had more…

Companies & orgs

  • Outside Interactive, Inc. — Company · Core organization discussed · 2 mentions · first at
    Central business case study: a platform combining media, mapping/apps, subscriptions and SaaS to drive outdoor participation and build a sustainable media ecosystem.
  • Under Armour — Company · Referenced acquirer/strategic counterparty · 1 mention · first at
    Important in Robin Thirstston's entrepreneurial timeline: acquired MapMyFitness and later sold it back, shaping his subsequent moves (including a non-compete).
    Those apps did incredibly well. I was able to sell that business to Under Armour. more recently bought that business back from Under Armour. So I own that business back at…
  • Pink Bike Marketplace — Company · Referenced marketplace asset · 1 mention · first at
    Presented as a major used-bike transaction marketplace ("like eBay for bikes") with large inventory, supporting affordability/sustainability in outdoor participation.
    Sustainability or cost perspective there's lots of places like we have this big marketplace called Pink Bike Marketplace which is the largest mountain bike sort of transaction…
  • Garmin — Company · Referenced wearable/tech brand · 1 mention · first at
    Cited as a long-used training tool for cycling/watch tracking, reinforcing the quantified training theme.
    Ride on a specific day. there are certainly other like I use I've used Garmin forever. I use, whether that be on the bike or even from a watch perspective. the nice thing about the new Apple Watch, like.
  • Zagal — Company · Referenced gear brand (diving) · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned by the host as preferred scuba gear, illustrating the broader point that trusted equipment increases safety and adherence.
    There's that. But, I also think there's the concept of, there isn't one versus the other. For example, when I scuba dive, I use Zagal. That's just I like them because I prefer…

Products & tech

  • Matt My Fitness — Product · Key product/business asset in guest's career · 2 mentions · first at
    Represents Robin Thirstston's early health-tech success (early iPhone apps), its sale to Under Armour, and later reacquisition into the Outside ecosystem.
    A bunch of years in finance and then started my first company in health and wellness Matt My Fitness in 2005 and we just got really lucky and we had two of the first 100 iPhone…
  • Aura Ring — Product · Referenced wearable tool · 2 mentions · first at
    Used as an example of quantified-self data guiding training intensity; Robin cites six years of daily data and using readiness scores to plan cycling.
  • Apple Watch — Product · Referenced wearable example · 1 mention · first at
    Highlighted for a UV sensor feature that estimates time in sunlight/outdoors, aligning with the episode's focus on measuring outdoor exposure.
  • Brooks Glycerin Flex — Product · Referenced gear recommendation · 1 mention · first at
    Example of 'right equipment improves adherence': Robin cites this shoe as an 'amazing' new running shoe.
    Same thing in running. Like I would say that, like I as an example, I just got this new pair of Brooks Glycerin Flex. It's like their brand new shoe. It's like an amazing shoe, right?

Concepts & topics

  • Artificial Intelligence — Concept · Core topic · 1 mention · first at
    Discussed as a major organizational shift: productivity gains, hiring implications, and specific use cases (text-to-audio, translation) alongside boundaries (not writing core stories with AI).
  • SAS — Concept · Business model concept · 2 mentions
    Central to Outside Interactive's revenue transformation: shifting from ad-heavy, non-recurring revenue to recurring SaaS/subscription streams.
  • Forest bathing — Concept · Referenced wellness practice · 1 mention · first at
    Cited as a nature-based practice (Japan) supporting the claim that simply being in nature improves health and wellbeing.
    Material impact on you. And I think, if you look at, all of the there's things like in Japan, they call it forest bathing, where you're just out in nature. now there's a, sort of trending on Tik Tok is like touch grass. You.
  • Burpees — Concept · Referenced exercise / accountability example · 1 mention · first at
    Used as a concrete example of social accountability driving consistent exercise (daily group burpees over Zoom).
  • Pickle Ball — Concept · Referenced trending activity · 2 mentions · first at
    Mentioned as an exploding outdoor/social sport, supporting the theme that social activities help people get outside.
    Funny like disc golf is on fuego right like you know certainly you know pickle ball like you know if you look at the growth of pickle ball and all the out and all the outdoor pickle ball courts right I think what you said Charles is.
  • DNA — Concept · Supporting concept · 2 mentions
    Used to emphasize humans' biological connection to nature and the planet, reinforcing the episode's 'outdoors as medicine' framing.

Places & events

  • Switzerland — Place · Referenced personal experience location · 4 mentions · first at
    Presented as a standout place for cycling and as Robin Thirstston's former home, grounding the discussion of 'top rides' in lived experience.
  • COVID — Event · Referenced event · 2 mentions
    Used as an example of behavior change (pet adoption boom leading to more walking), supporting the argument that small lifestyle shifts can improve health.
  • Canada — Place · Referenced example location · 1 mention · first at
    Paired with Sweden as an example of prescribing outdoor time, reinforcing the medical framing of nature exposure.
    How important it is but I fundamentally if you look at some countries like Sweden and Canada are starting issue prescriptions for outdoor time. Doctors are prescribing it and I think that's a real, I think testament to how important.
  • Sweden — Place · Referenced example location · 1 mention · first at
    Cited as a country where doctors prescribe outdoor time, supporting the 'outdoors as medicine' claim.
    How important it is but I fundamentally if you look at some countries like Sweden and Canada are starting issue prescriptions for outdoor time. Doctors are prescribing it and I think that's a real, I think testament to how important.
  • Lugano — Place · Referenced personal history location · 1 mention · first at
    One of the Swiss cities where Robin lived; used to underscore Switzerland's appeal for outdoor lifestyle and cycling.
    I lived two years in Nhatel and then two years in Lugano.
  • Nhatel — Place · Referenced personal history location · 1 mention · first at
    Cited as a place Robin lived in Switzerland; transcript spelling likely refers to Neuchâtel.
    I lived two years in Nhatel and then two years in Lugano.

Media & podcasts

  • Tik Tok — Media · Referenced platform/trend source · 2 mentions · first at
    Mentioned as the channel where 'touch grass' trends, illustrating cultural recognition of excessive screen time and desire for digital detox.

Full transcript with timestamps

Welcome to the Proven Podcast, where it doesn't matter what you think, only what you can prove. Our guest today is Robin Thirsten, CEO of Outside Interactive, Inc., a technology and media executive who has built and scaled digital platforms by combining data, community, and outdoor lifestyle brand into powerful business ecosystems. Robin has proven that strategic innovation and audience-driven platforms create lasting competitive advantage. The show starts now. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Robin, I'm really excited to have you here.

Thanks so much for having me. for the four or five people who don't know who you are, let's give them an idea. Who are you? What have you done?

Uh my name is Robin Thirstston. I'm the CEO and founder of Outside Interactive. Um Outside is a platform to help people get outdoors. That's really the core mission, premise, and sort of vision we have around the organization is we just want people spending as much time as they possibly can in the outdoors. Um but I've been in sort of tech and sort of health my whole life. I I started very young in cycling. I sort of came up through the national team system and um went to Europe and raced and then spent a bunch of years in finance and then started my first company in health and wellness uh Matt My Fitness in 2005 and we just got really really lucky and we had two of the first 100 iPhone apps in the app store in July of 2008 and those apps did incredibly well. I was able to sell that business to Under Armour. um more recently bought that business back from Under Armour. So I own that business back at Outside again,

Matt My Fitness. We bought back from them last year. Um and then I ran a consumer genetics company uh in between after I left Under Armour because I had a non-compete um and then wanted to get back into the outdoors and so I started Outside Interactive. I started acquiring distressed media assets. I started, you know, putting other parts of this puzzle that we're building together really to inspire people, you know, ultimately activate them and and then have them celebrate what they're doing in the outdoors. So, there's a lot that you talk about what you did publicly. What you don't talk about privately is you give people statistics that make themselves pee on themselves for about the last two, three weeks. Because when we had our first call, we first connected, you gave me a statistic that terrified me cuz we all know that we spent about a third of our life sleeping, which we get that and and I

have tried to slim that down as much as I can. God bless being an insomniac, which is not healthy. Don't do it, kids. But you gave me another statistic that made it even worse. So, can you give and and ruin it for everyone else as well? What is that other statistic that we're talking about? Well, unfortunately, a child born today is going to spend about 30 years on a screen. Um, you know, and I think that is really uh mind-boggling when you think about it. I mean, the average American is spending 7 to 8 hours a day on a screen. The, you know, kids are only getting 4 to 7 minutes a day outdoors. um you know across uh the US and you know this has resulted in a whole bunch of health impacts like myopia which used to be you know less than 25% of the population is nearing 50% of the population because people aren't staring out into the horizon.

They're not spending time outdoors adjusting their eyes to looking at something like the horizon. But then you have really serious health impacts like you know certainly um you know mental health right now I think globally I don't I don't think you can talk about it just in the US is you know really really in a bad state and and I I I believe that that's been primarily driven by people on screens um social media mobile all of these things have had a serious impact to us as uh as humans.

It that when you told me that statistic originally it it shocked me. We spin a conversation amongst my group that we've been talking about for a while and one of the guys came in. We talked about it when Einstein died. They dissected his brain and the main thing they found is that he had more folds or for those of you playing at home wrinkles in his brain and they said, "Well, this this must be something that leads to more intelligence." We find that when we dissect intelligent brains, if they have more folds, they are normally more intelligent. And we're finding with children now that, and this isn't direct causation, but there's less folds the more time you spend on screens. And that might be because you're sleeping a third less or your your your dopamine hits or whatever it is. So I'm not saying screens if you stare at them are going to make your your your brain smooth, but it's all the habits that go in with it.

So when you talk about getting outside, it it it isn't just a cure all for that. As much as the screen isn't the the main issue, it's all the habits that come with it. Am I am I close on this one?

Yeah. I mean, you know, even something like um you know, t taking your shoes off and walking in the grass, like this isn't you don't have to go to like a big hike or you know, some massive adventure. Just taking your shoes off and walking in the grass will reduce your blood pressure in 15 to 20 minutes, right? So, just literally connecting to the planet through the, you know, basically the ground will have a material impact on you. And I think, you know, if you look at, you know, all of the there's things like in Japan, they call it forest bathing, you know, where you're just out in nature. You know, now there's a, you know, sort of trending on um Tik Tok is like touch grass. You know, this idea that never in human history have we spent as much time indoors as we do right now, ever. And I think that people are realizing that, you know, we are part of this planet.

like literally we have the same makeup and fundamentals um from a DNA perspective as you know other creatures and other you know certainly other people and humans on this planet but we are connected to it and I don't and I don't think that in our current society that recognition about what it means to you know really touch grass means for people on a day-to-day basis and just how important it is but I I fundamentally if you look at some countries like Sweden and Canada are starting issue uh prescriptions for outdoor time. Doctors are prescribing it and I think that that's a real, you know, I think testament to how important um it is for us as a society to spend some of our time outdoors.

So, when you're talking about going outside, this isn't because I know you're you're an avid cyclist and we were going to do this on a bike, just didn't work out right now. Well, we'll do this next time. Next time,

we'll do it on a bike and I'll just hop and puff the whole time. So, I have to prep for like six months. When when you're talking about this, you're not talking, you know, I'm a triathlete. You're not talking be a triathlete. You're not talking get out there, huff it out there. You're literally talking about take your shoes off, go outside, stand for 20 minutes.

Yeah. I mean, and and you know, I think there are things really simple things like um one of the things that during COVID was that there was sort of a pet boom. You know, people got a lot of dogs, right? And that meant that they had to walk them. And that is frankly very good for you. there's the the the the process of taking your dog out for a walk and whether that's a mile or that's two mile and it's relatively slow. It doesn't matter. You don't again you don't have to be a hardcore what might be uh sort of visually considered somebody that's um you know an outdoors person, right? I think it's just more you know being outdoorsy like just wanting to go out and you know breathe the fresh air and you know connect you know in a in very very simple ways.

What are the ways that you know you're you're full of these statistics that make me lose sleep? So, thank you for that. What are some of the ones that are more positive? Are there things like, you know, we've talked about you're going to be inside. We're we're moving away from these little tablets, these little bricks, and we are going towards glasses based. That's just I was talking to a guy from uh Google Deep Fake, and he's like, "Yeah, phones are it's over. Phones are not going to be here anymore. They're all going to be glasses, and it's all going to be, you know, basically HUDs or heads-up display.

We're heading towards this." So, we know screens and tech isn't going away and we know that telling people that it's never going to happen that deal with it. It's it's tech. What are the ways that you can when you are stuck inside that you can mitigate some of this?

Well, I mean, obviously I'm we're we're not suggesting that every minute of activity um that positively impacts you has to be outdoors, you know? I mean, you just said you're in 5 in of ice, right? So um you know I would still advocate uh you know a treadmill you know run or walk um you know jumping on an indoor bike. Um you know certainly uh strength training is you know really has proven to be one of the most critical things that you can do to you know extend not only longevity but just like the quality of life right just that and especially you know after 50 um I think it's so important and all those things are things that you can do indoors you know then there are other you know sort of you know very I think very easy things that you know people wouldn't necessarily consider exercise things like you know just even um you know med meditation of some form right everybody has a different form and version of that

um but just to just to calm your mind right to not be looking at the screen um and staring at it you know you know sort of constantly switching from one screen size to the next you know whether you go from your phone to your laptop to your TV whatever it might be and you know the positive statistics are you know pretty clear I mean I mentioned you know just 30 minutes outdoors will lower your blood pressure um you know Basically, you can see for just 30 minutes outdoors, you can see a 45% increase in productivity. And the way the way that to me that's measured like if you think about um you know during the day I don't know about you but I I spend some of my day um you know on phone calls rather than Zoom just going for a walk while I'm talking to someone rather than Zoom because I know that when I get back I'm going to be more productive, more mentally alert if I've been outside, you know, walking around

for that 30 minutes uh with someone on the phone rather than being on Zoom all day long for seven eight hours um you know staring at people, Right. And so I think the other the other big thing that you know I look I I know there are some people um in the world who think that they're going to get off of this rock called Earth. Um I don't think I will be off of this rock. I think I I'm going to be here my whole life. And I think that one thing about being in nature that's very positive is I think that people um you know quickly realize that they are part of it and that they want to take care of it. And I I think that's another big, you know, thing that we see when when whether it's kids, whether it's adults spend time um in the outdoors. Um they just feel a greater connectivity and and think about things like sustainability um a lot more than if they aren't spending time outdoors.

So I think it's beyond just that as well. And you're a very successful entrepreneur. You you mentioned that you went back and you bought your business back and and you've done these things. How have you integrated this? Because I agree with you. I will schedule entire blocks of time where I'm like, I'm I'm going to get my steps in. There's no way around. I'm getting my steps in every day, even if there's five inches of snow or solid ice outside. Curse you, Lex, Kentucky. Um, I'm going to get it in. When you're doing this, how have you integrated this into your org? How are you doing this where you're you're setting up in senior command and and how does that work for you?

Well, I mean, I think first on a on a personal level, and I think this really does extend out to, you know, not only my direct team, but how I think about the the flexibility that we have as an organization to do these things. But at a personal level, I think a I I for those of your listeners and, you know, viewers that um know about, you know, sort of finance and how, you know, how dollar cost averaging works, like it's probably one of the most powerful things in investing that has ever been created, right? like you put a dollar away a week and then all of a sudden 20 years from now you look up and because you put it in uh whether you put it directly in Google or you put it in some other stock or whatever you put it in, you're sort of surprised at the compounding effect of that, right? Well, health and wellness is really similar. You can't cram, right? Like you know what I'd call like you know somebody you know let's

say you're going to run a marathon. If you try to train two weeks before the marathon I mean you're not going to have a great event, right? you have to lead in and build into it. And so the way that I think about fitness and you know, you just said you just got done, you know, being active. I just got, you know, done off the bike is that I I personally try to do it early in the morning. Um when I'm certainly fresh, cognitively fresh, um you know, and kind of can feel like I'm in sort of a meditative state, whether that's indoors or outdoors.

And again, you know, then during the day, like how do I take not necessarily breaks where I'm sitting around, you know, maybe, you know, eating something, but like where I'm actually out doing something, right? Um, another thing that's uh been proven is like even a 20-minut walk after you eat is really really critical, right, for just your whole digestive system and everything. And so those are some of the things when I think about personally how to keep that consistency going, right? like how how do you just keep thinking about paying yourself first rather than all of the other things in your you know sort of you know your ecosystem you know whether it's your family whether it's work um when it comes to outside I mean one is um we have you know 15 national holidays two of those happen to be outside days for the staff one is in the spring one is in late summer uh where we actually give the day off for for team

to spend time you know going to do something that could be skiing cycling whatever it might Um, we are, you know, a company that does flexible time away, which means the ultimate flexibility for employees to choose when they are going to take a break and, you know, so we don't mind if someone's out, you know, doing something at lunch and then they're back for meetings. Um, you know, and then, you know, certainly we lean in with like benefits, uh, you know, sort of residual sipments for people to get like things like gym memberships or equipment or things like that as part of the overall sort of benefits of the company. Um, you know, and then obviously, you know, my view is that luckily for our team that, you know, we have about 400 people that are spending all of their time thinking about also how to get other people outdoors. So often they get inspired themselves, right? they they see visuals, they're telling a story,

they're doing something, they're at an event, and they're like, "Well, I want to come back and do this or I want, you know, I'm going to tell friends about it." So, I think that we have set the company up in a way that really gives people the latitude to be able to think about outdoor time and how they think about their health and wellness. Not saying we don't work hard. We have lots of goals and KPIs just like any company, but ultimately I think our team is very aligned with what we're trying to do for the customers that you know connect with our platform. I

I think there's a blueprint there that a lot of founders are a little nervous about when they go through and they have this conversation and they look at they're like, "Okay, I I see what he's saying. I want I want to do this. This makes sense, but how do I tactically do this? What is the ROI that happens off this?" If I'm going to sit there and I'm going to give my team the ability to do ABCD, whatever it is, um, what is the ROI that happens with this? How does the culture change? How do we handle that along with integrating AI into this?

Because now with AI, it's, you know, I think there's two very specific camps. There's the fear-mongering, oh my god, this is going to purge everything. We're all going to die. And then there's a, holy this is really just going to performance-wise radically increase our ROI. So, I think that's the kind of divide when you're doing this. Is there a specific ROI you could talk about that has come from giving people this so other founders like okay and then also teaching other founders how to do this and how to integrate this into their systems.

Yeah, I mean I think if you again if you go back to something like the very basic research around productivity just like if people do this that they are going to be more productive. I think that's at least for me why when we talk about it with the team or you know when we when we put certain benefits in place like I really lean back on to those statistics but then ultimately you know we're we're fully remote all 400 people like we have a few small offices but we are fully remote and you know I look at you know last year's performance and you know if I look at us as as an organization I mean it was our uh we were up you know 23% year-over-year um you know we were it was a first time as for our organization, you know, we're well over $und00 million in revenue and, you know, it's first time for our organization to be profitable. And so to me, I guess the main thing I would say is that at the, you know, the

flexibility that we provide and give people the latitude as well as, you know, celebrate the fact that we want people to spend time outdoors um ultimately for us has translated into um success for the business. Now, you know, Charles, I'm a typical entrepreneur. Things could always be better, right? I could always like, but I I do think it's a balance and, you know, I I I don't know, there's so many, you know, we went through this phase if you think about the workplace where everybody was like, you know, work life balance is so important and, you know, I I would say that to me, it's kind of like like building a company is kind of like, you know, whether it's running a marathon or doing a major event, it's like there are periods where you are at rest. you are out doing the things that make you feel good and there's other periods where you are going very hard right you are pushing yourself to improve and I think

that in my mind is the way to build a company and you know the other thing I say to entrepreneurs all the time Charles is like don't forget to celebrate like the one thing and I wouldn't say I'm necessarily good at it and I haven't been in building companies before but now I think about it a lot it's like when you have moments of success make sure that your team knows that those are moments of success because if they don't, they get sort of trained to just think that it's everyday life and then they're not really, you know, sort of raising those moments up and saying, "Wow, that's something that we want to do again, right?"

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a it's a curse of being an entrepreneur. We're constantly thinking this could be better and what's next because we just grind and grind and grind. It's like, "Hey, you I remember I hit I became a Wall Street journalist. I was like, "Uh-huh." And I was with my aunt monk like this is amazing. I'm like, "Yeah, but it's not NT." And they're like, "What the hell, man?" And I was like, "But I want NT." there just became this this constant loop when you're hiring people. So, I love that you because we have transitioned to this and we are in, you know, an extinction level event for employees the way that it used to be.

They're just things are changing with AI. We know this, but people are having a hard time hiring for individuals who can be productive at home because it's a mind shift, right? We went from no, you have to be here, I have to physically touch you. We have to be in meetings. Then COVID got rid of that and then the entire global workforce became everywhere. Now we're in the situation where people are like, how do I hire the people, hold them accountable? How do I get them to show up in a way that we can hit $100 million because you're completely remote and you guys are doing, you know, $100 million a year for most founders, most business owners, they're like, we didn't think that was possible. So, you're, you know, one of the myths, again, this is why I wanted to have you on here. You keep people's minds with what's possible and also what's happening. Terrifying statistic.

Still, what are what are the ways that you hire? How do you do this where you're like, "Hey, I I know this person. I know Bob, Susie, Jimmy, whatever it is, they're going to execute at home even if I give them all this freedom. How have you found a way to process that?

Yeah, I mean I I one is I I really believe in people and I really believe in people, you know, even what I'd call in a in a you know, as AI starts to permeate more and more, I I still think um the humans are essential in this ecosystem that includes technology, right? Um, but I I I really I mean there's a couple things. One is I think you have to find people that are incredibly curious. Um,

like that's something like when I'm when I'm interviewing people and I I don't get to interview everyone that we hire now, but a lot of them I do. And you know, I really try to understand like is this person naturally curious? Are they, you know, thinking about not only the world around them, but like how they can improve themselves? And some of that might be from, you know, the activities they do. Some some might be in terms of the discovery and education that they do on their own. Um, but that but that's really important. And then I think for us it's like you know really understanding how invested this person is in thinking about you know whether they're building a product for us they're writing content for us they're you know whatever function they're in you know frankly I don't care if it's in finances are they really behind our mission and thinking about ways that we are going to transform you know sort of

the these current statistics statistics into new outcomes right and you know So I I would just say that um it's hard. You know I I we we once a quarter we're trying to get the teams together. Uh the teams have budget to do you know basically you know call them off sites on sites whatever you want to call them into areas where you know a a grouping of people get together but like I just got back from one um in Tucson uh for our maps team and you know we were together for two and a half days. Um we did uh two big hikes together like everybody was out there you know really using the tools and understanding you know looking at it from a discovery and recording perspective. Um but it also was a real social bonding moment when you're out there hiking that then makes the rest of the interactions that you're having even easier right like whether it's in a conference room whether it's you know out in in other settings. And

so I do think it's really important in a remote culture that you reserve the budget even over hiring the next person. Reserve the budget that allows you to get together in person and it's something you know frankly we've struggled with at times but we're you know this year it's really important and high up in you know sort of our goal list for how the teams are going to interact this year. So getting them together, having them play together, there's team building exercises, but how do you measure curiosity? Because I I haven't had someone talk about this before in the hiring process. How do you measure if they're curious? Because we I measure effectiveness. I measure speed. I measure are they intelligent enough? Can they find the answers? Because for me, it's it's always out into fasting, which is either either find a way or make a way. I'm going to figure this out.

That's something that I always look for. I'm like, here here's a problem that I know you don't know the answer to because no one knows the answer to. what do you do now? That's always the the litmus test I use. When you talk about curiosity, what is the litmate test do you use for that?

Well, I think again I think as you're talking to candidates, um, how how they ask questions, how they think about a problem, you know, how much maybe discovery that they've done on their own. That could be things like travel, that could be local discovery, it could be any number of things. It could be, you know, how, you know, sort of engaged they've gotten in a certain activity. And that doesn't necessarily need to be you know an outdoor activity but any activity like how have they learned about that how much studying did they do around it how curious were they about that subject or was it just surface right and I do think it's hard it's very hard to measure it's very hard you know it's much easier to measure you know whether it's like you know looking at somebody's experience like okay they had x number of years at this company did this thing you know and the same is true of other work that they've done like

When you start to ask people about the work that they've done, like how deep do they go into that question? Like how how naturally sort of curious they are they about the subjects or the tasks that they were given even at prior roles? H so when you get curious about certain things, one of the things I'm curious about is how what outdoor activities have you seen that have the best ROI? What are the statistics that show ABC? Because again, as a triathlete, I I love running, but I'm going to miss my knees when they're gone. So, I've had to stop running. And the bike's okay, but I've found that swimming is just it's it's home for me. It's it's what I love more than anything else. I just get in the water and just put my head down and rock and roll. And now there's waterproof headphones, so I can actually listen to a bunch of things when I'm going or I just zen out. I I adore swimming more than more than I could possibly tell

you. But what are some of the things that you found because again, this is this is what you do. is what outside does more than anything else. You guys study this and you guys are curious about these things. I mean you recommend there are categories that are like exploding right now like you know if you look at something like trail running and gravel cycling they've absolutely exploded right I mean I know this sounds funny like disc golf is on fuego right like you know certainly um you know pickle ball like you know if you look at the growth of pickle ball and all the out and all the outdoor pickle ball courts right

um I think what you said Charles is maybe the most important thing which is You started with something like triathlon and you got to experience three different types of activities, right? And you found one that absolutely like you is your, you know, whether you want to, you know, your your sort of zen, your spiritual moment, it's like you can get into that and just be super focused without the noise, right? And I think that's the most important thing. It's like if you're if if you're hiking and you're just looking at your phone the whole time, which by the way is hard outdoors. There's a reason it's hard outdoors to actually look at your phone with your sun bouncing off of it. But if you're just looking at your phone the whole time, that might not be your zen activity, right? So, it might make sense to like try some other things. And again, that could be something more social like if you look at the explosion

with run clubs right now, maybe you need a run club to like keep you motivated and keep you focused while you're out there. other people. It might just be as simple as walking out your back door and doing a two, you know, two mile walk, right? And that might be a moment where you can disconnect from everything. So, I think the big thing that I say to people is like, yeah, for me it's cycling. It always has been since I was a little kid and I was lucky to find it early. But like try things and try to find that thing that's going to create what you just said, which is that very zen moment for you that is sort of something that you can retain.

And I think when you're finding your zen moments, one of the reasons I like swimming so much is you can't lie because if I'm walking, I can turn I can I can halfass it. Or if I'm cycling, I can do especially on triathlons. I mean, as long as you can sneak the motorcycle in and the the the officials don't think it's a bike, you're fine. But you can't do that with swimming. Swimming is one of those rare opportunities that if you try and half ass, you drown. It just if you're like, "Oh, I don't want to kick anymore." You're going

You better get You better figure this out really quickly. That's why I love swim. And I'm not I'm not hauling butt. I have one of those endless pools that just keep going. It's like a treadmill basically in water. I love them. But it it keeps me focused and I have to be completely centered in my body of what's going on. And I'm just I'm very lucky I

a lot of I'm not I'm not a big climber, Charles. I'm not a big like rock climber,

but people say exactly the same thing about rock climbing that you because literally

if you fall, you're in big trouble, right? You are so zeroed in and focused, right? Whereas like there are other activities like walking, running, and cycling. I agree with you there that you can sort of zone out a bit. right now. Hopefully you're not doing that in traffic and, you know, other places, but you know, I I mean, but I I totally hear what you're saying about swimming, which is you will sink to the bottom or you will just literally put your feet down and you're done because otherwise you're not going anywhere.

And the reason I added in, you know, waterproof headphones was because it gave my brain something to chew on sometimes because there are times where my brain's like, "Okay, I've been staring at water. Can we do something else, please?" and I'll just feed an audio book. And I'm like, "All right, whatever." Buddy of mine, he carved out the bottom of his pool and he put a TV there. So, he'll sit there and watch, you know, YouTube or whatever it is while he's swimming with it. And he just sitting there watching it as he's going.

I'm like, that doesn't count, dude. That doesn't count. Like, what are you doing? He's like, I got to do it for an hour every day. I got to do something. I was like, God bless you, man. God bless you. You've you've also done something that a lot of people haven't done. acquired a bunch of assets or a bunch of companies that were or marketing that were that were failing. Can you walk me through that? That's something I didn't know prior to having this conversation. When you go in and you're acquiring things that are not as optimized as one would think, how do you evaluate those and how do you make sure that you then integrate them into your your um folder of business? Well, I mean to be clear the the many I mean there was two reasons why we ended up looking at um sort of things that were distressed. One is that you know I I knew I mean we have five brands that are older than 50 years old

right that like Ski magazine is over 80 Warren Miller is almost 80 uh climbing is over 50. Vel is over 50. Outside's over 50. Um but you know the media business um forget about more recently with AI even more stress because of what's going on with AI but the media business has been in sort of a secular decline really since um you know I would say mobile and social came out right like just you know new ways for people to get information. So but but the brands had a lot of equity in them and a lot of you know big libraries great stories that were you know part of these platforms and we had to make really hard decisions. There was one one of the ideas of bringing multiple media businesses together was to create scale which in turn allowed us to switch from you know being one primarily advertising but advertising within what we would call an endemic category. people like Northface and REI and Specialized

Bicycles used to be the advertisers of the outside, you know, sort of brands, right?

Um, today our largest advertisers are autos and they're travel companies and they're insurance companies. So, we've diversified away from being really really dependent on the core outdoor category. Those those people of course are still advertisers. But the other big thing that we had to do was we had to switch from, you know, really being dependent on advertising to being uh more dependent on reoccurring revenue streams. And so we've gone from at one point uh, you know, more than 70% of the business was in advertising and I would argue more than 85% of the business was in non-reoccurring businesses. Today of our revenue, 40% is advertising. 60% is in reoccurring either SAS businesses or subscription businesses. And we had to make that transition. But we knew that those businesses had great brand equity, great, you know, they had great teams.

They had people that were part of them that, you know, knew how to storytell and knew knew these categories the whether it be climbing or running or whatever category might be in the outdoor space. And by bringing that all together, to me, we've created an ecosystem that has much more sustainability into the future than maybe what it had before.

So, I was about to ask how you did that. How did you transfer into that? How did you pivot over into that SAS model where you went away from it because again, Specialized that's I rode on those for years. They saved my tukas many of times. They're great bikes.

Great. Great bikes. And by the way, they're still they're still advertisers just, you know, it's just different level of emphasis to what they used to do. Um you know one is again scale bringing the companies together had a part of it but then we rebuilt the tech platform and we started asking people to log in and we launched a digital subscription and we got rid you know we had to get rid of a lot of the print we only have one print magazine left which is outside magazine we don't have yoga journal we don't have climbing we don't have any of those anymore because those were really in distress I mean most of the the media publication the standalone subscript like print magazines were losing a million bucks bucks a year each. I mean, it wasn't it was like they were losing a lot of money.

Um, you know, and so we had to go through that and it was a tra it was a you know, I would say a painful transition. I mean, we certainly had reductions in the team over the last three or four years. There were there were challenges with doing it, but ultimately to get us to this point where we have a very sustainable build business that the business mix really can support these amazing brands and and media that we have today as one of the divisions

as as you've seen that transition from print physical copy into SAS as an option and now that we're heading into an AI first model and and when I try to explain this to people, Amazon was an internet first business period and everybody else tried to catch up and then they tried to do it had a mixed model and they just got crushed. We're heading toward now an AI first organizations and that's where we're going. But where do you see outside heading towards how do you how do you handle that next onslaught? How do you handle that title wave that's coming?

I mean I think what what we've tried to do internally is we've tried to educate the team. We've tried to give them the tools. You know, again, if in the idea that hopefully we have very curious people on our team that are inspired to get people outdoors, you want to put the right tools in their hand and hopefully then they'll start to really learn and figure out ways to, you know, leverage that into our own business. And so you know what we're seeing is that you know whether it's from engineering to marketing to you know even our you know uh GNA categories things like legal is that there's a lot of experimentation in in the use of it. Um you know there's a lot of people thinking about ways to maybe accelerate certain parts of things that they did so they can spend more time on other areas that are of you know potentially higher value. But I think for I think for what I'd call non AI first organizations, which by the way I

mean there aren't many, right? I mean there are only so many organizations that quote started within the last 3 years that are really AI first. Every other business is going through a transformation about how do you use these tools and how do you integrate them right?

Um and I think that we're, you know, I where do I think we are? It's a, you know, certainly it's a bit messy. I wouldn't say it's easy. You know, I I think that it's um you know, again, I think you try to educate and put the right tools in people's hands and hopefully good things come out. And then I think on the hiring front, you try to find people that are thinking about AI first. But as an example, there are places where um it has amazing use for us. Like one example is um something like text to audio. Now all of our articles have audio because of AI, right? That's leverage from our perspective or text to text in every language. If I had tried to do that a decade ago, Charles, it would have cost me millions to do translation. Right now, essentially, it's close to free, right? It's the tokenization and cost to convert a, you know, 3,000word article just isn't very expensive, right? To do

that in every language on the planet. And so, um, but on the flip side, we also have been very, very clear. We don't want uh as an example our written content to be written with AI, right? We want storytelling to be real storytelling. And so again, there are places in our business uh you know, it's quite uh an accelerant and there's other places where we want to, you know, sort of cautiously go into some of the uses and really, you know, understand the tools before we implement them, you know, at a at a broader and broader level, right? So, I just think again it goes back to that curious thing like if you if you have people that are curious, they will start to use the new tools. I don't care if it's mobile, I don't care if it's things like social, all of them, they'll start to use them.

And that's what essentially I would say that our organization is trying to do and go through that transition right now.

People who are curious to to get outside and to really start doing this and start changing because they're seeing things changing. What are some of the statistics? Because we know this all the time. If I if I put a million dollars in a room and make it really hard to get to the million dollars, you're probably not going to go after it. If I release a bunch of lions to chase you to go get in there, you're going to go get in that room. It doesn't matter about the million dollars anymore. So, sometimes we need to take that that hammer versus the hug in order to get people where they want to go. You're you're the king of telling me some of these things. And before we started recording, you gave us more. What are some of the things that if if someone's on the the cusp of, you know, maybe I don't want to go outside or all of that that you get the himming and hauling, what are some of the things

that like, hey, this is this is what we're seeing because you know this better than god almost anybody I know of. What are some of the things that are going on?

Yeah. I mean, I think we're in like I believe 2026 is like the year of the digital detox. Like whether you look at something like touch grass as a you know hashtag on in on Tik Tok or Instagram

you know there's like articles and not I'm not saying our publications writing about how unplugging is is like the new luxury right like getting that unplug time. Um, and I do think there is a bit of AI backlash in terms of like, you know, just technology, but when I think about the real benefits that people need to think about is this like outdoors is medicine, you know, and I do think look at Gen Z. They're not drinking, Charles. And they're not drinking because they understand the data better than they ever have, right? What's happening to them, you know, whether it's sleep and these types of things. And so, you know, when I think about like, you know, this like when I think about what's happened, I think we have hit sort of peak screen time

and people are thinking about ways and specifically escapes. Like if I if I look at like the outside ecosystem, the average person in our ecosystem is is going like on 14 days of trips a year. Like they're going somewhere and they are trying to find places to detox, right? They're trying to find places where they might be offline, they might be disconnected, you know, and and I I again from my perspective, that's what's so important is like it doesn't again it doesn't matter that you're doing an Iron Man, right, Charles, or like a marathon.

Like if you want to go do that, that's a great way to really have a disconnected type of experience.

But you know, I'm use example like if you decide to go on a trip, you know, pick somewhere that is close to nature. Pick pick a place where you can easily just get out for a little mini walk or a hike or go down into the local town where you're you know might do some sightseeing and some souvenir buying but like make it far enough away that like you have to like you know pick yourself up and get out of the bed and and get away from the hotel to go do that, right?

Yeah. It's it's the conversation of blue zones where we were talking about some of the the things that are in blue zones that make people so healthy. And one of the ones they found was getting outside, but there was a certain incline. If your environment forces you to walk up a certain incline in order to get food, you're going to be healthier than if you have to go downhill. It just it is what it is. And having those and forcing it, it's it's really really simple stuff. There's a in in that book there's a really good example of I believe it's Sicily where there's a ton of stairs

in the town, right? Everybody has to walk up and down the stairs and you know again to your point like just putting yourself in that situation is you're you know your your blood's going to start pumping. You're going to start you know using muscles that maybe you don't use when you're just sitting around on the couch typing away on the on the laptop.

I think you said it earlier really well. We live in a society right now where we are spending more time inside than we ever have in humanity. And our bodies haven't evolved for this. So, it's unbelievably unhealthy for us. And it's it it's really became a challenge for a bunch of us. We sat down and we're like, "Okay, let's all commit to being accountability partners. 20 minutes a day of what's known as a Navy Seal burp burpee, which is a little different than a regular burpee. We're like, we're going to do this." And we were all slacking off on it. We just we just weren't doing it. I'm just being honest.

We're guys who just weren't doing it. I was like, "That's it enough." So, we have a Zoom call every morning and everyone gets on their stupid thing and we're like, "All right, let's bang them out." And we're just ripping on each other cuz we're just having fun. We're just going through the 20 minutes and it's a bonding exercise. And I remember when we first started this, I am so glad those calls were not being recorded cuz it's some of the most embarrassing things I've seen with my dear friends, you know, falling all over the floor trying to do these burpees in our boxers and just like this is this is embarrassing. But it changes bond and exercise.

But it's it's it's that social accountability I go back to like if if you are not good at getting yourself outdoors or doing some type of activity like the social thing will have an impact. So again, find a run group, find a a walk group, a hike group, a swim group. Like find a group that is going to allow you to get some of that social connectivity, but also social pressure to help you go do those things because it it does make a big difference, right? Like that's why to me I think we're seeing booms in these social running clubs and hike clubs and pickle ball clubs and all of these things is because the so the social you know sort of I don't know pressure anxiety whatever you want to call it is real and will help you right

it's just it's this longing to connect and and just because you join a group just for everybody listening doesn't mean you have to stay I remember I joined a climbing group and we were working on something and the guy put his hand in a crack and then turned it and made a fist and then he locked himself in there and he was working on something else. I was like, "Uh-uh, absolutely not. I'm doing that." I'm like, "You're out of your mind." I was like, "Wait, if you let go of your I'm like, "I'm not doing that." I was like, "Uhuh, no." So, finding what works and what doesn't work. Like, I I love swimming because it allows me to zen out. And I used to tell people this all the time, the reason I became a scuba diver was cuz my cell phone didn't work underwater, which the truth was my pager didn't work under water, but it makes me

If that if that works, if that works to get you off the phone, I'm all for it. Get you outside. Are there any things are there any beneficial things that are on the phone that you could sit there when you are on a screen you know be it wearables or some of the scientific data? I mean I mean look I mean you look at some of even like our core applications like GIA GPS or Trail Forks like helping help you know having a map to help you discover where the trail head is, how far it is, where is that hike from your house like you know yes there there are you know nutrition trackers and other things on the phone that certainly you know I mean if you're if you're wearing a wearable like an Aura or Whoop like you go get the data on the phone. So I'm not suggesting that there is no use for this technology and you should give it up altogether. But I'm just saying that we are out of balance Charles. We are not connecting

and and spending as much time as we should be on you know away from our phones you know again even socially families with you know the outdoors. All of these things are just so important. And you know, I just think it goes back to how do you create more balance and how do you create that accountability? H

how is outside making the balance between tech and outside? You you mentioned a couple pieces of software there. What are the things that you have found like, hey, we're very intentional. I know this about your org. You're very intentional about what you deliver and how you guys create it as you're trying to, you know, not only does this have your company thrive, but also have your your customers thrive. What are some of those balance integrations that you guys are doing?

Yeah, I mean, I'll use something really, really simple. Um, you know, look, I mean, obviously we we write a lot of content. We create shows around the outdoors. You know, we have we we license films and, you know, obviously, you know, want people to be inspired through, you know, big adventure storytelling and things of that nature that people might, you know, watch or read on, you know, one of the publications. But I think what's more important for us now is that we create the connection to somebody actually going to do that thing. So as an example like if you see us write an article about the top 10 hikes right we will embed the maps directly in it so that you can download those maps and then we can see did the inspiration of that story actually drive you to go do that activity right like go out because you've now you've discovered it on one of the mapping tools and then you've gone out and logged it you know whether

that's in Gaia Trail Forks or Map My Fitness that you're out there experiencing it that connection is super important. Or another example is like with our travel software like we we built it so that we could if you if we write an article about the top 10 ski resorts that we're directly getting you to book that trip right out of the article um so that that experience is really seamless because there's nothing more than we want to take you from that moment of inspiration like oh I really want to go to steamboat and ski to actually booking it and going to do it Charles like that's what's most important to creating that connection between you know, the use of technology and then actually, you know, separating yourself and going to do that actual activity.

So, I selfishly want to know when you say, "Hey, these are the top 10 this or the top 10 that." Because I I've scoped scuba for a very long time like, "Oh, these are the top 10 places." I'm like, "No, those are not the top 10." I'm like, "Who wrote this?" And I get authentically angry at this. When you guys are creating this lists, how do you guys narrow this down? Because I'm authentically curious. How do you decide these are the top 10 hikes or the top 10 this or top 10 that?

Yeah. I mean, look, I mean, you can I think you can debate I I could I could debate with other cyclists about the top 10 rides in the world, right? And and it's based on my experience, right? Like, you know, I happen to believe that places like Switzerland and Northern Italy have some of the best cycling in the world, right? But I will tell you, like I just got back from, you know, Maine from the Maine Tourism and Outdoor Conference and I can tell you that there are amazing places to ride in Maine, right? But but it's to me a lot of this is B if you're if you're talking about you know us writing and curating these things some of it's based on data. So we'll look in our database and actually because we know where people are hiking like whether that be in national parks or other places. We'll pull from that data and then use that data to disseminate into storytelling. Hey here are places that are popular or here are

places that are you know not popular but beautiful because we have great photos and things like that from them. But ultimately it does come down to some personal experience. So I think you can always debate whether or not your top 10 scuba diving places are the same top 10 that I would have. Right. But I think more than more important than anything is putting that out there for people that maybe have never experienced it and don't know where to go that they can find places. Right.

I think the one exception to the rule is Switzerland. Just Switzerland just across the board.

Switzerland. Switzerland. Yeah. I lived there for four years. It's beautiful. Where in where in Switzerland were you?

I lived two years in Nhatel uh and then two years in Lugano. God Lugano. Oh my god. All right. Yeah. Switzerland wins. Just for everybody's paying attention. Uh we could create uh outside online Switzerland and we just went just go to Switzerland. It is what it is. While we're going through this, you're a cyclist. Some of the things that are proven for you and some of the things that ramp up for you. If you were like these are the top 10 tools because everyone will kill me if I don't ask you this. It's the one thing when I when I told everyone that I was interviewing, all right, get his stuff on cycling. We want to know what are his top 10 tools that he loves more than anything else when it comes to like like your favorite bike or your favorite this. What are the 10 things with cycling that you're like you got to do this? This is your thing.

Well, I'll start with the the broader health and wellness things. Like I I love eight sleep um the the product for your mattress like and and how it helps you sleep. Um, I've been an Aura user, Aura Ring user since the very beginning. Like I I have over six years of data, daily data in Aura. And I use it I use it that the the the score that you get every day I use specifically to think about my cycling like how I how hard I ride on a specific day. Um,

you know, there are certainly other um, you know, like I use I've used Garmin forever. you know, I use, you know, whether that be on the bike or even

from a watch perspective. Um, the nice thing about the new Apple Watch, like one thing I love, I don't I don't love things on my wrist. That's why I prefer something like the Aura Ring. But one thing I do love about the new Apple Watch is that it has a UV sensor on it. So, it can tell you how much time you're outdoors. It literally can measure how much time you're in sunlight. So like I love that just from a ability to give you insights on are you spending time indoors or outdoors and you know that the impact that's potentially having on your health and wellness. Um you know there's a lot of I mean look I could go into detail about things like continuous glucose monitors and you know some of the devices that are coming in the future like um you know core body temperature matters a lot when you're training and doing type certain types of activities. Um, but you know the tools and equipment you have are really

essential. So like what bike do I ride? I I ride like I I'm more I ride road mostly and gravel. So but I ride specialized like I ride a Krux for gravel and I ride a tarmac on the road.

Um, you know, so the tools are super important to me about having that great experience when you're out there no matter what it is that you're doing. Same thing in running. Like I would say that, you know, like I as an example, I just got um this new pair of Brooks Glycerin Flex. It's like their brand new shoe. It's like an amazing shoe, right? So like having the right tools, no matter what you're doing, whether you're hiking, you know, climbing, riding, walking, whatever it is, is really critical so that you keep coming back because if you have a poor experience because of the equipment, then you probably won't do it again, right? So like you know that's what it just matters a lot no matter which activity you're in that you have the right equipment. Um you know and by the way doesn't mean you can't buy used equipment because there's a lot of good used equipment out on the market too. So

like if you're thinking about it from a sustainability or cost perspective there's lots of places like we have this big marketplace called Pink Bike Marketplace which is the largest mountain bike sort of transaction marketplace kind of like eBay for you know bikes. And I think right now we have 60,000 used bikes listed on Pink Bike Marketplace globally, right? So there's lots of places to find great used equipment no matter which category or discipline you're in.

I think there's also two things that was subtle in what you just said was you got six years of data on your order rate. That's got to have a better idea. So, if I got an order in right now, it's not going to have the same tenacity or same data in there because you're basing off yours, which is an algo based off six years versus I'm basing off what would be, you know, a couple months. So, there's that. But, I also think there's the concept of, you know, there isn't one versus the other. For example, when I scuba dive, I use Zagal. That's just I like them because I prefer my secondary on my chest. I use a Zagal Ranger because I know that what's going to probably kill me down there is not going to be a fish. It's going to be the other diver ripping my first stage out of my mouth. I'm expecting that. So, normally when someone runs into it, we'll spit the rag and which means I literally and then it'll fly to the other person and

then I can take my secondary, which is a foot away. I mean, it's it's 8 in away from my mouth. You're not going to take it away from me. So, it's a matter of what comfortable. And the first one I ever had was a gift. It was a used one, which was wonderful. So, it doesn't have to be brand new. It's just the gear you're using that makes you feel safe and makes you want to go outside and makes you want to execute. That I I think is going to be really important. some of the last type of things, you know, you have access to stuff that most people don't when you're talking about core temperature and you're talking about, you know, maybe glasses that we're using, maybe blue light glasses.

Are there other tools that God, I wish people would use this or things that you're like, I use these every day and I can't imagine my life without them.

Um, you know, I don't like I I'm I'm a huge advocate for things like uh saunas, even red light saunas. I know there's a lot of debate about real saunas versus red light and you know but I I we have a red light one and I use it I'd say regularly. I mean I wish I used it more. Cold pungling is another thing I think is really like if if you think about you know let's say you're doing a you know fairly intense workout. Um there's a lot of inflammation so something like cold plunging really can help that if you're out you know riding two three four five hours and you get back like it's it's it's really good to do. um you know so there there are things like that that you know certainly I would say you know not only do we write about and you know certainly I advocate on a personal level um but I also think there's a there's you know and there you know there are many many apps that people can download

whether it's for meditation like I said whether it's for food tracking whether it's for different performance and training things you know um but there's also a case to be made for like really listening to your body like like almost disconnecting from the wearables at times to understand like what is what is just you know if you listen closely enough what is your core saying to you like are you tired are you like even if your ring is saying hey Robin you're ready to go get it today like you're you know your recovery score is awesome but I just feel crappy right like you got to listen too cuz there is you know often times your body will tell you things that maybe the devices um don't have 100% % perspective into

Yeah. I I think for me when I found out that I could just do blood work and get my biomarkers back, that was huge because I was ice plum plunging like crazy. And they were like, hey, you've got, you know, you grew up in South Florida, therefore there's an immense amount of mold in your system. And I was like, whoa. And we said, okay, stop ice plunging. I was like, why am I stop? They're like, go get an IR sauna, sit in it every single day, twice a day. You got to detox this stuff out. You got to open your body up so you can get this small. It takes time. So getting those other data sets, getting those numbers that you can only figure out, you know, figuring out where your DNA is and your snips based off your DNA and and figuring out how your body reacts to certain things and gluten and histamines and all of these things across the board. That data is above and beyond.

And I think to your point, the best way to do this, and I know this is going to sound get outside my body, I can hear my body better when I'm outside. I'm hiking in Switzerland than I can anywhere else. So this just became a promotion for Switzerland. Go to Switzerland.

Buy a tourism Switzerland. Yeah, exactly. That's what it is for now. Yeah. Go go go to Lucern and just walk up and down. You'll be fine. You You'll feel much better as a human being.

Feel much better. Yeah. So if people want to feel better and they want to learn more about this and they want to track you down and get more information about you, Robin, how do they track you down? What's the best way to get a hold of you?

I mean, we have so many sites and so many products. Um, I always tell people to just go like our one of our largest ones is outside online and if you go into the nav, you can see everything that we kind of have to offer. But, you know, create accounts, sign up for a membership, you know, start engaging with the content and the services that we have. Sign up for an event. That's a big way to sort of, you know, get you through the learning curve. And that could be everything from a, you know, a 5K to a 10K to, you know, uh, whatever whatever endeavor you might want to, you know, sign up for. But sign up for something because it will motivate you to do that. episode, but you can find all that at outsideline.com.

Robin, I really appreciate it. It's always fun talking to you. Thank you so much.

You too. Thanks for having me. That's a wrap on another episode of the Proven Podcast. Community builds momentum. Data builds direction. Execution builds results. Stop watching trends. Start building ecosystems. While others chase attention, you could be creating platforms that last. Remember, if your strategy doesn't create real value, it was never proven to scale.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "You are Losing 27 Years to this... - Robin Thurston"?

Robin Thurston (Guest), Charles (implied host) (Host).

What is "You are Losing 27 Years to this... - Robin Thurston" about?

Robin Thurston (Robin Thirston) discusses building data-driven, audience-focused outdoor platforms through Outside Interactive, detailing his career from elite cycling to tech startups, the acquisition and reintegration of his previous ventures (including Matt My Fitness), and how strategic innovation and community-building create lasting competitive advantage in outdoor lifestyle media.

What is mentioned in this The Proven Podcast episode?

24 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Outside Interactive, Inc., Robin Thirstston, Artificial Intelligence, Matt My Fitness, Aura Ring, SAS. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "You are Losing 27 Years to this... - Robin Thurston"?

The episode runs 56 min; the transcript is about 11,878 words in 104 timestamped sections.

More from The Proven Podcast

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated October 29, 2026.