Transcript

What Should I Talk About During Ketamine Therapy? How to Get The Most Out Of A Session

From What Your Therapist Thinks · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 59 min · 10,433 words · 222 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "What Should I Talk About During Ketamine Therapy? How to Get The Most Out Of A Session", an episode of What Your Therapist Thinks published October 8, 2025 (59 min, about 10,433 words). It mentions 30 people, works and ideas, including ketamine, CAP, Ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, Psilocybin, Psychedelic psychotherapy.

What this episode is about

The discussion centers on optimizing the experience of ketamine-assisted therapy, highlighting the importance of realistic expectations versus the mystical perceptions often surrounding its effects. It features insights from a specialist in the field, emphasizing the significance of open communication and preparation for individuals exploring this transformative therapeutic approach.

Key takeaways

  • Ketamine: Once a battlefield savior, now a mind's battlefield therapist. Safety meets psychedelics.
  • Don't believe the hype: Consumption of buzzwords like 'gaslighting' often leads to mental indigestion.
  • Psychedelic therapy offers a magic pill mirage, yet it's more of a gradual garden—growth over glam.
  • 1960s: The drug era's grand experiment of 'Anything Goes,' providing modern therapy with vintage alchemy.
  • CAP unlocks self-trust, disrupting people-pleasing—proof that sometimes a trip can set you free.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: ketamine, Ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, 2SLGBTQIA+, best therapist.com
  2. – 10:00: ketamine, Ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, Psilocybin
  3. – 15:00: ketamine, Ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, Psilocybin
  4. – 20:00: ketamine, Ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, Treatment-resistant depression
  5. – 25:00: ketamine, Cocaine addiction, Psychedelic psychotherapy, Set and setting
  6. – 30:00: Integration session, ketamine, Ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, THC edibles
  7. – 35:00: ketamine, Psychosis, Dissociative anesthetic
  8. – 40:00: ketamine, Psilocybin, therapeutic ketamine, Therapeutic ketamine subreddit
  9. – 45:00: Aphantasia
  10. – 50:00: ketamine, therapeutic ketamine, Therapeutic ketamine subreddit
  11. – 55:00: Internal Family Systems (IFS), ketamine, Psilocybin, Psychedelic psychotherapy
  12. – 59:07: ketamine, best therapist.com, Christy Plantinga, Felicia Keller Bole

Notable quotes from "What Should I Talk About During Ketamine Therapy? How to Get The Most Out Of A Session"

  • One of the first things that got me interested in psychedelic psychotherapy, people who had terminal cancer diagnosis, they gave them shrooms and people literally had this internal experience of confronting and meeting.
    about Psychedelic psychotherapy · at
  • Today we are super excited to be talking about ketamine assisted psychotherapy.
    about ketamine · at
  • Psychedelics that we have that came out of the medical world as opposed to natural world like psilocybin, like iawasa. This is something that was actually created for medical settings.
    about Psilocybin · at
  • And so when we're thinking about it's often used for treatment resistant depression, that's there's a lot of hopelessness.
    about Treatment-resistant depression · at
  • Are a lot of studies out there that are using ketamine for alcohol addiction, heroin addiction, cocaine addiction, and so it has these same benefits again of increasing that neuroplasticity so you can make a different choice.
    about Cocaine addiction · at
  • During ketamine assisted psychotherapy. This is from the subreddit therapeutic ketamine. Should you be able to talk during an infusion?
    about therapeutic ketamine · at
  • Things we think about in the psychological world is personal and family history of psychosis.
    about Psychosis · at
  • Excited to hear from you Shannon about this. This is also in the therapeutic ketamine subreddit for CPTTSD. How does a breakthrough with ketamine look like? As someone who did…
    about Therapeutic ketamine subreddit · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Felicia Keller Bole — Person · 2 mentions · first at
    Mean the Reddit questions you post in the middle of the night. If you're new here, welcome. I'm Felicia Keller Bole, licensed somatic therapist and clinical adviser at best…
  • Christy Plantinga — Person · 2 mentions · first at
    Licensed somatic therapist and clinical adviser at best therapist.com. And I'm Christy Plantinga, founder of best therapists. And I've been in a lot of therapy. This show is…
  • Shannon York — Person · 1 mention · first at
    To be focusing on what to think about during ketamine therapy. We are joined today by Shannon York, who is a specialist in ketamine therapy. We are so excited to hear from her.…

Companies & orgs

  • therapeutic ketamine — Company · 3 mentions · first at
  • best therapist.com — Company · 2 mentions · first at
    Here, welcome. I'm Felicia Keller Bole, licensed somatic therapist and clinical adviser at best therapist.com. And I'm Christy Plantinga, founder of best therapists. And I've…
  • Therapeutic ketamine subreddit — Company · 2 mentions · first at
  • Best Therapists — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Licensed somatic therapist and clinical adviser at best therapist.com. And I'm Christy Plantinga, founder of best therapists. And I've been in a lot of therapy. This show is…
  • In Alignment Wellness — Company · 1 mention · first at
    So excited to hear from her. Shannon is a queer licensed clinical psychologist and the founder of Inal alignment wellness, a virtual therapy practice serving clients in Florida and New York.
  • wytodcast — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Text them the podcast. You can also connect with us on Instagram at wytodcast.
  • What Your Therapist Thinks (WYTT) — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Our DMs with your mental health questions. They just might be featured on a future episode. What your Therapist thinks is hosted by me, Christy Plantinga, and Felicia Keller…
  • Podvision — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Therapist at best therapist.com. Our show is produced by the team at Podvision. See you next time.

Products & tech

  • ketamine — Product · 37 mentions · first at
  • Psilocybin — Product · 6 mentions · first at
  • THC edibles — Product · 1 mention · first at
    I went for my first infusion and I have never experienced any drug other than THC edibles I tried for anxiety once. My husband went with me and started discussing…

Concepts & topics

  • CAP — Concept · 12 mentions
  • Ketamine-assisted psychotherapy — Concept · 11 mentions · first at
    Today we are super excited to be talking about ketamine assisted psychotherapy.
  • Psychedelic psychotherapy — Concept · 3 mentions · first at
  • Dissociative anesthetic — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
    It is classified medically as a dissociative anesthetic. And so when we're thinking about the world of psychedelics, it's one of the few psychedelics that we have that came out of the medical world as opposed to.
  • Psychosis — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
  • CPTSD — Concept · 2 mentions
  • Psycholytic therapy — Concept · 2 mentions
  • 2SLGBTQIA+ — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Affirming care tailored to individuals navigating the complexities of peopleleasing behaviors, 2SLGBTQIA plus identities, and polyamorous and kinky relationships. Dr. New York…
  • Treatment-resistant depression — Concept · 1 mention · first at
  • Cocaine addiction — Concept · 1 mention · first at
  • Set and setting — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Well, I think first of all, we place a lot of importance on something called set and setting. Whereas, if you're familiar with any kind of psychedelic psychotherapy, that's a…
  • Integration session — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    And sometimes can take time to get there, which is why we schedule an integration session where we really unpack things 24 to 48 hours after.
  • Aphantasia — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    And there are other people who just don't have I mean it's people have aphantasia. They don't have like an inner visualization system. You can still get amazing effects because it's not just what's happening in the trip.
  • Internal Family Systems (IFS) — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Create. That's interesting because I know we were talking about combining ketamine with internal family systems.
  • somatic therapy — Concept · 1 mention

Sponsors

Full transcript with timestamps

I think a lot of people want it to be magic. I want it to be magic. It's not magic.

Anytime something is taboo, myths are going to arise. One of the first things that got me interested in psychedelic psychotherapy, people who had terminal cancer diagnosis, they gave them shrooms and people literally had this internal experience of confronting and meeting death. If you are experiencing a lot of suffering and you've been hearing so many good things about cat, but like you're not quite sure, I think that's important for people to hear because

the internet loves throwing around words like gaslighting, narcissist, and toxic, but most of the time they're getting it wrong. In this podcast, we unpack the internet's most asked anonymous mental health questions that you wish you could ask a therapist. And by anonymous, we mean the Reddit questions you post in the middle of the night. If you're new here, welcome. I'm Felicia Keller Bole, licensed somatic therapist and clinical adviser at best therapist.com. And I'm Christy Plantinga, founder of best therapists. And I've been in a lot of therapy. This show is brought to you by best therapist.com, a therapist directory that bets therapist so you can focus on fit, not quality. You can find your best therapist at best therapist.com. It's time to find out what therapists are really thinking.

Today we are super excited to be talking about ketamine assisted psychotherapy. We'll get into quite a few dimensions around this topic, but we're also going to be focusing on what to think about during ketamine therapy. We are joined today by Shannon York, who is a specialist in ketamine therapy. We are so excited to hear from her. Shannon is a queer licensed clinical psychologist and the founder of Inal alignment wellness, a virtual therapy practice serving clients in Florida and New York. She specializes in providing identity affirming care tailored to individuals navigating the complexities of peopleleasing behaviors, 2SLGBTQIA plus identities, and polyamorous and kinky relationships. Dr. New York supports clients through individual and group therapy on their journey of recovering from emotionally immature parents and systemic oppression. A key offering in her practice is ketamine assisted psychotherapy, also called CAP,

a transformative modality that supports clients in reconnecting with their own inner wisdom. She has been astounded at how impactful CAP can be in disrupting people pleasing at its roots, restoring self-rust, and making space for corrective emotional experiences that reshape how clients relate to themselves, others, and the world. Shannon, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much. I'm really delighted to be here. Yeah, Felicia and I are just here to be absolute sponges on um everything that you have to share with us about ketamine assisted psychotherapy. So

first things first, what is ketamine? So ketamine is a psychoactive substance. It is classified medically as a dissociative anesthetic. And so when we're thinking about the world of psychedelics, it's one of the few psychedelics that we have that came out of the medical world as opposed to natural world like psilocybin, like iawasa. This is something that was actually created for medical settings. It was originally used as a battlefield anesthetic

back in the 60s because it was a little bit safer. It's one of the few anesthetics that doesn't lower your breathing and heart rate, which is one of the reasons because it has that kind of safety feature that it's now being prescribed for people to selfadminister at home

because it's not something that carries some of the other risks. That that's funny that it was in the 60s and whenever I think of the 60s, I feel like that was like the drug era, you know? They're like, "Oh, this [ __ ] rocks."

Yeah. Yeah. And it's so interesting how the research on it has changed from that time. Um I was just doing a little kind of recon before this and and looking at the history of the research on this. When we first start studying these kind of drugs, it it is kind of more open field and people are curious like what can it do? What can't it do? And then a lot of times what happens is once it becomes recreational,

they lock it down. And that's what happened with ketamine 2. It was starting to get leaked into the party scene, the rave scene in the '8s, and then they were like, "Nope, we're going to put a lid on this." And that slows the recreational use which might be okay but it also puts up all these obstacles in research too. So it's taken some time to get back to the research of like what can this do beneficially especially in a therapeutic context.

So why do you think we're seeing a resurgence in this in recent years? Cuz it seems like you know when I was growing up like I didn't really hear much about ketamine like

I had never heard of it till like a few years ago. Mhm. Right. And now it seems like it's on everybody's lips. I remember Yeah. I feel like I started really hearing about it when I went to grad school.

I went to CIA, which is like a hippie-dippy grad school. Super legit. Turns out great therapists, but also a bit trippy.

So, I like Right. So, that's when I started hearing about this, but I hadn't heard about it before, and now it just seems like all of a sudden it's everywhere. like cap has become so popular, but also we're hearing more and more about people using it recreationally with

mixed results, to put it lightly. Yeah. Yeah. Why do you think it's suddenly like does it feel like it's everywhere or is that just me?

I'm not sure if it's just you and me or if it is. Um but I think I have heard it's at least the three of us.

Hopefully we'll we'll get it out there to some more people too and and maybe learn about it on the show. like if you're experiencing this too. Leave us a comment and let us know like when did you first hear about ketamine? We would love to hear stories about that. Yeah. And how did you first hear about it?

But yeah, Shannon, why is this everywhere all of a sudden? What's your take on that?

It's a great question. I had a similar experience to you if I started hearing about psychedelic assisted psychotherapy mostly with psilocybin in grad school

and MDMA which isn't exactly a psychedelic but gets kind of used in that world. Yeah. And I think what we were seeing is, okay, we know therapy can do X, Y, and Z. It can get us this far, but are there other things that maybe unlock a different type of healing? Could they speed up the process?

Could I do two years of therapy and not 10? That would be nice um for my heart and my wallet. And so I think I think that's a part of it. So the research was was showing there's something profound that is happening in a psychedelic experience that might be meaningful and might be something that we can add. I think the other thing with ketamine is that it's legal

and all these other ones MDMAs, psilocybin, LSD, you cannot go to your therapist around the corner and do that yet unless you live in maybe Colorado, uh maybe Oregon. So I think the other reason yeah we're hearing it is that that ketamine is much more readily available because of the legality and I think it's that legal issue that scares a lot of people away from pursuing this in the first place which I get.

Yeah. I know we've been referring to also the recreational use of ketamine just like any other any other drug. But

what is ketamine assisted psychotherapy? And we might be referring to this as cap throughout the episode just because

can we just use this as psychotherapy is a bit of a mouthful. Yeah. The a couple distinctions. So, so there is already a world of I would say ketamine treatment, right? And this is like the medical model. And so in a doctor's office, in a psychiatrist's office, you might get a ketamine treatment, which is more in they see the ketamine as the change agent itself. You go, you're in a sterile environment, there's a nurse, there's not usually a therapist. Sometimes they assume you have therapy, sometimes they don't. You get an infusion, it's really intense.

Um, the experience, but also the benefit. And then you go home. And the idea is that's what does the work.

Ketamine assisted psychotherapy says, "Oh, we think the therapy part is the important part." So ketamine is the assistant. It makes the therapy open up other pieces that maybe weren't as accessible without the medicine. But the medicine is the helper, not the healer.

The actual the therapeutic relationship is what is creating the change. I'm really glad you're making that distinction. Honestly, I want to be like in a cozy office with someone I trust who is going to be like

monitoring my experience. Yeah. And that's that's really helpful to understand because I think a lot of times people might just say ketamine therapy and

there is a difference between like therapy that you do with a therapist that is assisted by ketamine versus just like a massive dose of ketamine in a medical office

or or just taking it on your own by yourself and calling that ketamine therapy. It's like right that's therapy in the way that like hydrotherapy is therapy.

Like that's not psychotherapy. That's just like Mhm. You hoping that the ketamine you use will be therapeutic.

Yeah. Yeah. And and I will say I'm biased, right? I'm a CAP therapist. I believe in therapy. I'm really into that part of it. Uh there are clinics that have a more integrated model. So you can still get IV, you know, higher dose treatment and have a wonderful supported experience. So they're not mutually exclusive, but there is a spectrum. And I would say you know we have the medical model over here we have in the middle cap at like a moderate dose different route of administration a whole different experience and then we have like all the way at the other end there's something called psycholytic cap so it's not psychedelic it's psycholytic you don't go into another universe uh you're still very lucid and what it actually does is just removes some of the defensive barrier and some people become hyperfluent so there's But here's like here's all my drama and it's really uh there's more access to

it. It's one of the cool things that I think ketamine does. So you could have a really meaningful cap experience and never have a psychedelic experience because you're taking a much lower dose.

Anytime something is taboo, myths are going to arise. Right? So, when we think about ketamine assisted psychotherapy, what are some myths around it that you run into and you'd like to debunk right now for listeners?

Great question. The biggest one that comes to mind is all the the bad press that we've seen with certain individuals who are saying they're using ketamine and don't look like they're in their right mind, frankly.

Yeah. And I really worry that people are going to think, "Oh, that's what would happen to me. I I'm going to be in a work meeting chasing imaginary sparkles in the air." Uh, and that's just not what happens.

What I really like about ketamine assisted psychotherapy that is different from other psychedelic psychotherapies is that it's really brief. It's 45 minutes. 45 minutes, 60 at best. And that allows you to move through it and then be out of it and go back into your normal life. Whereas, if we're looking at something like psilocybin, that's a 6-hour day. That's a longer commitment.

If you don't like it, you don't get to get off the train. Yeah. You're a little stuck.

You got to wait. But if you don't like it with CAP, it's like, okay, I I lost 45 minutes. Okay, that's fine. I can decide I don't like it and do something else or I can make adjustments. It's a such a gentler on-ramp especially we're thinking about psycholytic. You don't even have to have the full dissociative experience and you can really have a lot of control. This is what I'll say. If you are working with somebody that is doing this in a safe way, they should be hearing your concerns and adjusting your experience based on that. So if you are nervous,

a good CAP clinician is going to go, "What can we do to make you feel safe and in control? Do you want to lower the dose? Do you want to do it at a different time? Do you want to have your supportive person next to you? Do you want your dog in the room?

Uh do you want to take a break? Do you want to talk to the to your physician again about it?" Because this all gets prescribed through a physician. So really thinking about when you're vetting your clinician, how are they making you feel safe and in control in this process because you absolutely deserve nothing less.

I think if uh my dog was in the room, if I was on any kind of substance, I would just be like, I love you so much.

You do that, Christy, you do that when you're not on a substance. That's just you with your dogs normally. the day I'll just like I'll just like catch him out the bed. I'm like, "God damn it, I love you so much."

So, what I'm hearing based on what you shared, Shannon, is that probably when you're starting CAP therapy with

a therapist. Like, your first session probably isn't going to be doing ketamine, right? Like, they need to do an assessment. They need to understand your goals. They need to

get a sense of what sort of dosage would be right for you. But of course, like you said, you're also going to be consulting with a physician who would be, you know, primarily making that decision. But probably a really seasoned CAP therapist could still have a conversation with you about dosages.

And also, I think this is helpful for listeners to hear because if what you've heard about ketamine is that it can be so transformative and so helpful, you might also feel like, well, I want to get going. Like, I want to do it. I'm ready for the changes. Maybe you've also spent a lot of time in therapy and you're like, "Enough's enough." But it sounds like from what you're saying, it's really important to slow that process down a bit and make sure that you're working with the right practitioner

and that you've done some um pre-work so that your experience with CAP can actually be beneficial.

You are spot on with that. And there's a a lot of debate within the community of of how many sessions before you start. The consensus I'm hearing in in our community so far is no less than four.

So that's an intake in intake and at least three sessions because you got to be able to trust me.

You're going into an altered state. Like I want you to feel safe and I want to have had

a lot of time together so that that feels okay. The research study that I just recently read did 10 sessions before they even touched it.

10. and all of the ketamine assisted psychotherapy I've done with my clients so far have been clients I've been working with for years

and so we we know each other really really well it would be really different with somebody new I'm going to go slow I spoke with another colleague

waited three months and just wanted to check in and say is do you really need this is this going to be beneficial and if so how let's really talk through that

any other myths about ketamine assisted psychotherapy we want to go over. Gosh, there's so many. I think

one of the big ones is that it's not magic. And I I think a lot of people want it to be magic. I want it to be magic.

I want you. We all want it to be magic, right? Yeah. I was just talking with my neighbor about this right before we recorded. like what are some of the myths and the idea that this has made its way into mainstream and when something new shows up it's often touted as like this cure all it's going to solve all our problems it's going to be great and then like some time passes and we're like oo

maybe not like maybe it's a bit more nuanced than that and it's actually not for everyone and like we do need to proceed with some degree of like caution

yeah there are a couple of different ways that it is helpful And I think it's important for people to know that so they can see how that might fit with their symptoms and kind of what kind of goals they have. So you have uh three awesome ways that it helps on a neurobiological level. One is increasing neuroplasticity. So it makes it easier to learn new things whether it's a language or an instrument or I don't know coping skills, communication patterns. It just makes things a little bit more flexible. When we're thinking about traditional talk therapy, sometimes that's a little clunkier. Sometimes it feels hard to get a skill in the repertoire. With CAP, it's a little bit easier. Not magic, but a little bit easier.

So neuroplasticity is one. The second one is it almost immediately boosts your mood.

And so when we're thinking about it's often used for treatment resistant depression,

that's there's a lot of hopelessness. And if you had 40% less hopelessness, it would be easier to do the other things to get yourself out of that trough.

So the mood boost, huge. Love that. But again, people mistake that for like I'm done.

And that's not it. Yes. You still have to build the life that supports that feeling staying

because the goal is not that you're on ketamine forever. It's a timelimited treatment. usually about eight sessions as your first round. Sometimes there's another round or two, but it's time limited.

So, we want to really build the other pieces of the puzzle. And the third neurobiological piece is that it quiets this part part of the brain called the default mode network, which is what's happening when we are not focused on something. So, it's the daydreaming part, but it's also the rumination part. It's the thinking about that weird thing you said in sixth grade part. It's thinking about like how sad you are and how much work is gonna suck. And if that's quieter, then again, it's easier to do the other things.

So, there's all that cool stuff going on. And then there's like the trip itself, which some people get these little nuggets of meaning that become touchston for their progress. That's not necessary, but sometimes it's a cherry on top.

That is so helpful. I love understanding all of the ways it just creates new possibilities in our brain and in our nervous system. How it kind of raises the floor of maybe how we're feeling.

Cuz yeah, like you said, when we're really depressed, it's so hard to do the things that will make us feel less depressed, right? So, just getting a little bit of a boost enough that you're like, "Oh, maybe I will go outside today." Right? I have this really deepseated belief about myself, but my brain just got loose enough for me to maybe consider that that's not true or like have a slightly different thought. Like

I love thinking about it as this this helpful thing that just allows us to get just enough change

so that we can really begin to build those habits that are going to like massively improve our lives in the long run.

Yeah. would be nice if it was just magic and we're like, "Cool, it's great. I could just do it forever. No side effects."

But obviously nothing's actually like that. And I'm glad we're making that like we're dispelling that myth because

Exactly. There's no magic bullet, right, for like healing from a lot of this stuff. I mean, it sounds like CAP can accelerate things just because of

the effects neurologically because talk therapy doesn't necessarily always have those kinds of benefits, at least so directly because it's medical,

but it's still not a magic bullet to Exactly. You're better. Yay. Yeah. Are there any conditions that CAP is not recommended for? like are there people or any like issues that we should not be treating with CAB?

Mhm. I love that question. I would just be a little bit cautious or thoughtful when we're thinking about addiction.

Um there are people who have a history of ketamine addiction, you know, when this was a really a much more popular club drug. If that's something in your recent past,

maybe not ideal. And if you have a a history of addiction and it doesn't feel like you have uh a sense of control, like if you are not in a place where you trust yourself enough to know where those boundaries are, if there's part of you that is so into escape that you might misuse this. I would just be cautious. I will say this though, there are a lot of studies out there that are using ketamine for alcohol addiction, heroin addiction, cocaine addiction, and so it has these same benefits again of increasing that neuroplasticity so you can make a different choice.

And we want to think about what stage of recovery are you in and what is your sense of self-rust to use this in a therapeutic way, not in an escaping way. Got it. So, I imagine for folks who might be dealing with active addiction and are wanting to do some work around that, wanting to recover, heal that

and they're interested in ketamine assisted therapy, they should probably work with a practitioner who's very experienced in working with addiction

and cap and can really help guide that client in knowing if this is really the best time,

right, to utilize this or if it's not. it it puts them at risk essentially of becoming addicted to another substance.

Yes. And and when I'm talking about that, there's the difference too of like we talked about that spectrum of kinds of ketamine treatment. If you're getting an infusion, you you can't self-infuse at home. If you really worked hard, maybe you could find a a loophole, but it'll be harder. the kind of cap I do, the prescriber mails the the rapidly dissolving tablets to your home. And so if you don't trust yourself with having the medicine in home, that's a different story. Even if you're not sure about that kind of selfrust, there are other routes of administration that could still make that available. But again, like you said, you want to work with somebody who is very specialized in that, who can walk you through the options, the pros and cons, help you make an informed choice.

What should people be thinking about during ketamine therapy? Well, I think first of all, we place a lot of importance on something called set and setting. Whereas, if you're familiar with any kind of um psychedelic psychotherapy, that's a very popular term. Set means mindset. So, when you are coming into this kind of treatment, you're really thinking about what's my intention? Have I done the prep work psychologically to put me in a good headsp space to to have this medicinal experience? So I recommend that folks journal and that I have like four pages of journaling prompts. Pick like four questions really go deep with what that feels like. It doesn't have to be a lot

but I have seen a major difference in folks who are doing that preparation work and folks who are not. So, the prep for the mindset, but also the prep for the setting. Can you make this a lovely experience? I work with people virtually, so they are in bed when they're doing their ketamine treatment. They're getting their space comfortable. They're making sure their pets are in a place where they're not going to be disruptive. They have a supportive person who's physically there in case they need anything. They have water.

They have a snack for after. Uh there's really good music. Sometimes CAP is considered a music therapy because music plays such a meaningful role in the actual experience.

So you're really thinking about am I setting myself up to get the most out of this experience.

So set kind of your mindset going into it and setting your kind of physical Yes.

physical experience. You got So, does it start where maybe you're speaking with your therapist and you think, I want to, you know,

think about this part of my life or maybe we can discuss this memory and maybe even how much talking is involved in all of this. Is it just is it just kind of you in your head or

Yeah. Can you explain what that's like? Yeah. So, when you're thinking about the intention, you want to be mindful of how wide and how narrow. Cuz if you're like, I'm really going to work on this one specific thing and I'm going to feel exactly this, it's just not going to happen.

So, I think about setting an intention that is a little bit wider of like I am going into this looking for clarity. I'm looking for relief. I'm wanting to feel empowered. Uh, and I'm just welcoming in whatever information might help me feel that. Sometimes it you get a direct clear

kind of experience that aligns with that. Sometimes you don't. Yeah. Setting the intention and then letting go of the outcome and knowing that we're going to make meaning of it regardless. Um, so whatever comes up is okay, but an intention that is not too specific, but also not too vague. When we're thinking about psycholytic, so that's the lowest dose. You can have the medicine and you're able to talk and so you can talk during that one. Sometimes that's encouraged. Sometimes it's really fluent.

The other ones, a lot of folks are encouraged to really just go inward. So, you're wearing eye shades, you're wearing headphones, you've got the music going, you're in your cozy blanket, maybe in your bed, maybe at a treatment center, and you are just having an inward experience, and that talking comes after.

A really common thing that people say after the treatment is that there are no words.

It's it's so different from our dayto-day. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes can take time to get there, which is why we schedule an integration session where we really unpack things 24 to 48 hours after.

Sometimes you'll have words then sometimes it takes longer. Interesting. And that actually brings us to our first post from Reddit, which is about talking

during um ketamine assisted psychotherapy. This is from the subreddit therapeutic ketamine. Should you be able to talk during an infusion? I went for my first infusion and I have never experienced any drug other than THC edibles I tried for anxiety once. My husband went with me and started discussing pharmaceutical engineering. I normally know about that stuff, but my mind knew and my mouth wouldn't work. Unfortunately, this made me really scared because I had to fight the med to keep up with the conversation. Is it better to be alone or is it just because it's my first time?

I love that. Pharmaceutical engineering first. My goodness. Yeah. Like I think it's better not to be with your husband while he's having a hyperintellectual conversation while you're on K. I think like

I concur with that. I humble opinion. Yeah. Maybe that was the intention. Maybe that was the set, you know? just coming to solve problems. We're going to figure out this engineering thing.

Yeah. Also, who is he talking to? Is like was it like him and the practitioner just like gabbing about this?

And you also think the practitioner would not be engaging in that discussion, right? Like what is happening? Pharmaceutical engineering wouldn't be on my top 10 list of things to discuss during

not a great set. Wouldn't Wouldn't be my choice. But hey, like I don't know. Sounds like it wasn't really this person's choice either. They were just

Yeah. One of the trainings I went to talked about how important it is to coach your support people. A lot of people find that you're having this experience

that is so far beyond words that is so different from anything you've experienced. And it's really hard to communicate that to loved ones. Both what it was like and then also what you need. M

and what we see too in systems that aren't prepared, they'll either have really really high expectations of the client of like this was supposed to be magic, you're cured, you're fixed, do all the things or there will be some frustration of like oh this person's getting better and now I have to look at myself. Mhm.

So preparation also includes the people around you and that is something that I am incorporating more and more into my practice because I'm seeing the ripple effect of what happens when loved ones are prepared and have realistic expectations versus when they don't

and it makes a big difference in my client's experience. So if I were in that situation, I might have warmly asked that person to table the conversation until after,

maybe hours after, and to really let that person go inward. If talking feels good to the client, yes, we're going to do that. If it doesn't feel good, we're not. And so that decision ideally I want to come from the client themselves of, does this feel helpful? What I've seen is because it's a dissociative anesthetic, it makes everything feel really heavy, the words are kind of syrupy and it's hard to talk. And so if you're holding yourself to the same expectations as as a sober you, uh it's going to be really frustrating. And so just saying

it sounds like it would ruin it. Yeah. It sounded like it took that person really

Yeah. just out of the experience. Cuz I think what I'm getting from this person is

her real question is, "Did I do this wrong?" Like, "Did I did I overdose because I couldn't speak?" That's kind of what I'm getting from

Yeah. the post. Yeah. Yeah. So, I would say normal experience for the words to be harder to find. Um I wish that that person had some more support to know that and helpful if the support person is quiet unless explicitly asked not to be. pharmaceutical engineering.

Seems so ridiculous. I know. When I did ketamine, I was talking, but I was just like, "Whoa."

Like, and laughing. Yeah. I was just like laughing. And the person I was with was like,

they had told me before they were like, oh yeah, you probably won't be able to talk. And I was actually talking quite a lot, but it was mostly just me laughing and being like, "Wow, wow, this is so cool." Like,

but for listeners, it's okay if you feel like you physically can't speak. That's not a sign that like things are going bad or you're having a bad reaction or something like that.

It'll go away. It'll go away as you come out of it. And I think from what you're saying Shannon like

you know, really depends on the dosage and it probably also depends on the person, you know, and like what their inner experience is like. I'm sure there are a lot of variables that go into it, but

are there actually adverse reactions to ketamine? And when there are, what do those look like?

Sure. Yeah. I think when you're dealing with a pharmaceutical product, there's always something. There's always, you know, the little side effects on the commercial that you hear. One of the things we think about in the psychological world is personal and family history of psychosis. So, if you have personally experienced a break from reality, if that runs in your family pretty deeply, we just want to be curious about it. And the both myself and the medical practitioner will do a thorough background and really look at what is the risk because this does break you from traditional time and space

and if that is unsettling or that creates an anxiety that could be really painful

um and maybe even dangerous to an extent, right? Like so that is something to definitely consider and talk with your therapist and Yes.

Yeah. physician about. Yeah. And like all things, you want to think about the informed choice and and do a gut check. If somebody is trying to talk you into it and assure you that it's okay, probably not the best person. If somebody is saying, "Here are the risks. Here's the prevalence of the risk. Here's what I think based on your family. How does that feel for you?

Is that feeling safe? Is that feeling scary? We have a hundred other options." Like

again, cap isn't magic and I I don't ever want people to feel like it's the only option.

Um because there's so many other things. People come to it as a last resort and I think want it to be salvation. Um we have a really robust mental health world to work with and I don't want people to feel like they have to take a risk that doesn't feel comfortable.

Absolutely. I think that's important for people to hear because if you are experiencing a lot of suffering and you've been hearing so many good things about CAP but like you feel nervous and you're not quite sure to know that like it's okay to keep on trying other things. You don't have to do CAP because it actually isn't for everybody

and it sounds like you know there are definitely some things that are contraindicated like a history of psychosis. But yeah, I mean I think we should just be able to make the decisions that feel right for us. Like if you feel really nervous about doing this, then you shouldn't have to do it cuz there are other options and you should be wary of like people or practitioners who are trying to like

convince you that this is the thing you should do. I feel like for me, I do have a very strong history of addiction in my family and I have not dealt with substance addiction myself. Um, but I' I've been very nervous about substances throughout my life because of my family history.

And so for me, it was so important to get to a point where I felt safe, where I found someone that I felt safe around.

And there were so many times that like people I knew and friends were like, "Hey, let's do it. Like, I'll take care of you." D. There's something about being a person who doesn't do substances that I think other people just find really fascinating. and they're like, "I want you to get high like but have you tried it?" And it's like,

"Yeah, exactly." And I'm like, "I don't want to." So, finally, I did find someone who I trusted. And there was none of that kind of like curiosity about like I want to see you get [ __ ] up or I want to see you get high like

and I was like actually I do feel ready to do this. And by then I had done so much other work in my life. And a really big piece for me honestly around that was like preventing me from doing it was my fear of being out of control.

Yes. And so finally when I did enough work in myself had nothing to do with psychedelic experiences

about being able to surrender and release control but do that in a way that I was still safe,

right? And I felt safe. Once that occurred, I was able to start to use some of these other modalities. And that was really helpful. But like

hopefully that's helpful for people to hear. Like it might you might do this eventually, you might not. And that's okay. You're not like more evolved if you want to or do this work. Like

everybody's journey looks so different. Absolutely. My specialty is helping people retire from people pleasing. And so we really work on the trust piece and like is this coming from you? Are you feeling pressured to do this? What would it look like if there wasn't any pressure in a vacuum? Would you make this choice? And what I tell folks when I bring this up as an option is saying we can get to your goals without this.

I don't have any doubts about that. This is not going to be the only way we get there. So, if you are absolutely against it or if you change your mind, I am with you and we're still going to get where you want to go,

but this is an option. And do you want to look at how it might be helpful? I love that. I love thinking about the relationship to control piece. That's what my therapist tells me. She's like, "Oh, life is just about your relationship to control." And I'm like, "God damn it, Alicia calling me out. It's an interesting exercise to just be like, "Wow, I really am, you know, in a very safe environment, but like

practicing what that what that feels like." So, it's definitely, I think, an opportunity for growth from that alone, even if you don't have these really specific

therapeutic outcomes. Really, if the set is just what does it feel like to let go?

Yeah, it's huge. That's been so huge for me. Yeah, I love this next post and I'm super super excited to hear from uh you Shannon about this. This is also in the therapeutic ketamine subreddit for CPTTSD. How does a breakthrough with ketamine look like? As someone who did several MDMAs, psilocybin, and other psychedelics, I'd be happy to learn more about ketamine and how breakthroughs look like. I'm dealing with several issues stemming from CPTTSD and would like to learn how to navigate this space and trying ketamine with a provider.

Oh gosh, I have so many thoughts and feelings. Where to start? Um, you know, this is the preparation. What is your wish to what is your wish of what a breakthrough would look like? That's what I want to know.

If this treatment got you where you wanted, what is the breakthrough that you're looking for? Can we use that information to be intentional? Can we use that as an intention? And can we look at

So, you're going to have this kamine experience. You're going to have this neuroplastic window for up to two weeks after dosing.

It's really I didn't know that. What happens in the two weeks that is going to get you through to this place that you want to be with CPTTSD? I think about trust, relational trust. There's so much pain in relationships. There's been so much harm done. What's the next level for you?

Is it to practice letting somebody in? Is it to practice reaching out? Is it to listen to yourself when your gut says, "This isn't safe. I need to get out." As opposed to numbing or or putting that in a box.

But it's so personal. So the breakthrough is what you want it to be. And let's be intentional about getting there. And let's use this neuroplastic window to do these tiny tiny micro practices that will move you in that direction so that your body can experience the safety of this new version of you.

Amazing. I love it. I love how you took that question and you were like actually let's completely reframe what a breakthrough it is

because there can be so much pressure on these experiences to have something really profound happen and like with with mindaltering substances we often think of those as like a vision or a completely new radical thought or whatever and it's just like my I walk out of the room and I'm in a different life you know and then when you don't have that you're like

might feel really disappoint appointed or like you messed it up, you know, but I love how having that intention beforehand

and thinking about, well, what is the change you really want to see in your life and how can we use this rather than it needing to be some fantastical experience?

Yeah, I have clients who have no inner experience during nothing. And initially it was really disappointing for them and pardon like I have a lot of like rich inner world. I've gone through this experience cuz I wanted to know what it was like for my clients. So, I've gone through that and mine was like magical, fantastical, but like I'm an only child who was raised on books. There's a lot going on in there. And there are other people who just don't have I mean it's people have aphantasia. They don't have like an inner visualization system. You can still get amazing effects because it's not just what's happening in the trip.

It's it's what do you do after with whatever that information is. And worst case scenario, you get an hour of relaxation.

I'm cool with that. That sounds good. A lot of the people I'm working with aren't having a lot of time for that.

Um, but yeah, it's it's what comes after that matters. Interesting. Do you find that the brain almost kind of like rearranges things to kind of get there, you know, cuz like we can't do it ourselves, but like maybe the pieces kind of like fall together. I've found sometimes like if I have a problem and then I just kind of leave it and I don't think about it consciously, but in like the back of my mind, maybe like a week later, I'm like, "Oh, that's what I'm going to do."

Right. Yeah. Does that happen? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Because you're not crazy. I think that's kind of that that quieting of the default mode network of like I'm not going to spin out and be like, "What's the solution? What's the solution? What's the solution? What's I'm not going to do that. I'm going to let there be quiet so that again something can happen in the background to get me there. But maybe it's not so effortful. Maybe it's not so painful. Maybe I'm not

like chewing on it day in and day out. Yeah. Our default mode network is not the seat of wisdom.

Right. Right. That's not where wisdom comes from. That's where like worry and busyiness and this kind of contraction

occurs. I don't know what the brain looks like when we're accessing our our wise selves, but I'm assuming it's not the default mode of network, right? It's something that's probably much more integrated and something that is much more free,

right? And I what I would often say to my clients is like you're too close to the problem to figure it out.

You know, when when the mind goes to this place of like obsessively trying to get the answer, you know, why why is it this way? And I really it's like all of this contraction happens both like somatically but also psychologically and that is not a place where our minds can be integrated and where creativity and flexibility happens that brings our deep inner knowing to the surface. So sometimes when you just kind of let go, you like sink into the flow of this.

Yeah. Things start to connect in your brain and the answer becomes more clear. And it happens in a way that actually feels good instead of like this

like come here. Good idea. I'm going to get you. Like that's not pleasant. Yeah. Yeah. I like what you said about it feeling good. it's just not such a struggle and not such a fight. And I think too, you know, when we're not super stressed and depressed, our default mode network can go into the joy of, you know, what happens when you're looking out the window. And it can be that playful daydreaming and it can be that background problem solving, but we've got to get it to a place where

it's not just sitting with our stress and our pain. Um, so I think there's just room for it to be more

than than the rumination. I love that. Okay. So, what you're saying here is our default mode network can actually be a seat of wisdom.

It's a both and. I think it's like what is it being occupied with? And can we give it a different task? Can we

can we let it rest from the task that it usually has, which is beating ourselves up and worrying about the future? Can we let it look out the window?

And maybe when it's looking out the window and daydreaming, the answers will come.

I feel soothed just hearing that. I'm just like, ah, yes. It makes me think about going for a long bike ride. I feel like that's when I would have really good ideas. It's like, oh, I've been riding my bike for miles and all I'm doing is just

like eyes in front of me pedaling. Not even about pedaling, right? Yeah. Yeah. and the answer would emerge. Oh, okay. That's what feels right instead of like

wrestling so much. Yeah. I love these moments we have on the show where we just get to be calmed by our guest Fle totally. No, seriously.

I'm like, wait, where are we? Wait, we have to ask question and I. So, thank you Shannon for that.

Um, okay. I think we have time for one more. I'm very interested to hear about this because this might just be a benefit of ketamine alone for for some people. So, this is also in the therapeutic ketamine subreddit. Did you find ketamine made you more receptive to therapy?

I have hit a wall therapeutically. My therapist and I have decided to try ketamine to help me as my other medications have lost their efficacy. I want to work hard in therapy, but I'm so locked into my fears and negative thinking that it's impossible for me to work on anything. Did anyone find ketamine allowed them to be more open and receptive to therapy? I'm hoping this helps. Hell yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. And this is the neuroplasticity part of again

there's more flexibility and openness to hearing things in a different way. So your therapist could say the same thing that they've said to you in 25 previous sessions, but you hear it after the treatment in a different way and you're like "Oh something is just a little bit more spacious there."

Not magic. So I have seen folks who get a ketamine infusion and come to therapy and the rigidity is still there, the defensiveness is still there. But I think um that's more the exception than the rule. So what I see mostly is that it's it really unlocks and creates some more flexibility. But again this asterisk of like and it's not magic.

And when I'm hearing someone so tightly holding on to I want to work hard, I want to do this. I'm thinking how do we like let go a little bit? And so maybe not repeating the cycle and saying now ketamine's got to do it a but instead going what would it be like to let therapy be gentle easy for the way you're showing up to be good enough to maybe be intentional about one small thing that we can get you some sense of achievement and accomplishment in as opposed to needing to win at therapy or do it perfectly.

I can see why you specialize in people pleasing. It's like you've really got is I'm hearing you knowing how to speak.

It's helpful for others, not for me. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I can't even imagine what that's like.

Um but hopefully this resonates with somebody out there. Yeah. No, the winning at therapy. I've never heard that before, but that really really hits me like that when people come in and they

they're just such hard workers in their lives and they're like, "Okay, so now I'm doing therapy so I'm going to do the best at therapy and I'm just going to kill it. I'm going to

I'm going to deal with this and then it's going to be done." Yes. Yeah. And I'm going to do this faster than anyone's ever done this before. And my therapist is going to be like, "Oh my god, should you be a therapist?" Like, you're that good at therapy. Oh my gosh, I have so much compassion for that. And just

it just makes me think of so how so often when we go to therapy, we're like, "This is what needs to happen." And I feel like often times it's almost like the opposite, right? I feel like as a therapist, so many people came in being like, "I need to figure out why I blah blah blah blah blah so I can start doing this thing different." And in my experience, it's almost always you have to start doing the thing differently and then you start to uncover why. Mhm.

Right. Because so often the block to changing your life is like, I've got to figure it out and it's like, yeah, there's probably a really good reason why you haven't figured it out yet, you know?

And so it sounds like you're trying and you're really invested. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like our medicine is so often like the thing that we're not already doing, you know? So if the thing you're already doing all the time is figuring it out or trying really hard or being the ace student or like whatever usually not always but usually your medicine is to like do something that's over there right

and then and then you increase your range right like I would also say like uh therapy is not exorcism we're not here to get rid of any parts of you

or like love that everyone who's here gets to stay but we want to like invite more people to the party like we want to increase the range of possibility. We want to increase the flexibility and the integration of the self.

Um if these are all the people who are always at the party, it's like well who are the other people who we normally don't invite to the party and could we like maybe let them come and like get to know them a little bit better?

Kind of means the door man in this. Yeah. He's like come on in. Everybody's welcome. I'm not checking my knees, so get out of here. And maybe you get to meet some parts of yourself that have been like previously exiled, and you're like, "Oh, I thought you were going to be really scary, but actually you're pretty cool, right?"

Like, I just was always looking at you from across the room and thought you were a little scary, but like no, you're you're awesome.

Mhm. That's actually one of the first things that got me interested in psychedelic psychotherapy in grad school. We read a paper about psilocybin for end of life experiences, people who had terminal cancer diagnosis and then they gave him shrooms and I was like that's wild. I hope to be the cool person at the end of my life. Then I'm like I'm doing with drugs. I'm going out anyway. Um, wow.

And what they found is that people literally had this internal experience of confronting and meeting death.

Wow. And part of the preparation work in all types of I think psychedelic experience is if you find something scary,

one, know that it's it's you, it's part of you, it's in your head, right? Two, this experience is going to end. Three, can you ask at what it's there to teach you? Can you lean in instead of running away? Because what we've been doing our whole lives is running away from the scary thing, trying to find safety from the scary thing. In this container, we want to lean into the scary thing and say, "Who are you? What are you here to do for me?" And it's kind of like making friends with those parts of ourselves of those people at the party who are causing a ruckus and and really loud or really judgmental or whatever. Um, can we relate to that in a different way?

So, I love the doorman uh party metaphor very much. Like that's spot on. I guess Katamine is like either really good at his job or really bad at his job, right? Depending on how you look at it. Like

we'll we'll see. It's a very inclusive club that the door man is trying to create. That's interesting because I know we were talking about combining ketamine with internal family systems. um which is you know definitely newer I think for non therapists and that's like parts work so we all have different parts of ourselves like we're one person but then letting all of those come to the party with ketamine

is a healing experience is that fair from the non- therapists in the room it can be and an ideal world it is a healing experience I think there are probably instances where someone gets invited to the party and they show up and like

the other parts it's the more dominant parts are maybe not as ready to receive and that could maybe not be so fun afterwards. But I do think it is part of the process of healing from my perspective of like what is healing

like my theory of change is yeah like it is having more integration. It is starting to hold the parts of ourselves that we've always seen as good and also being able to love and appreciate the parts of ourselves that we historically have seen as bad,

right? I don't know. I think it makes our experience of ourselves better, but I also think it creates tons of compassion and understanding for other people. I think it leads to us being truly better people in the world because if we can't alienate ourselves and see ourselves as evil, then we can't really see other people as evil either. You know, we're sort of forced to find

some amount of compassion for every person. And I my theory is that's probably going to be helpful. You know, like that's not the same as saying we can't have boundaries. Sure.

That we can't say no to certain things. That is not what I'm saying. But just understanding that like

you're not evil. Other people aren't evil. Right? That seems like it shouldn't be a controversial thing to say, but I somehow feel like that's not

people that way by everyone. I don't know. It's very healing if we think what would the world look like if none of us could ever even have the thought that someone else is evil,

right? Like if we didn't walk around hating ourselves sometimes, you know, like how do we first how do we learn to hate other people? Like how do we

It's like we hate parts of ourselves. We wish they weren't here. We think they're terrible and should die. And it's judge ourselves.

Yeah. It makes it so much easier to do that to other people. Now I just feel like we're now we're like really trippy. We're like

hippie dippy. I mean with these two in the room at their hippie dippy in the world.

It's you guys. It's just so simple. Just love each other, right? Like that's it.

We did it. We did it. Podcast over. Nailed it. Okay. We want to know what you really think about ketamine assisted therapy. What is your unbridled, unfiltered opinion thinking about ketamine assisted therapy? I think it is an incredible tool. And if it's a hammer, not everything in therapy is a nail. It's a wonderful addition to a toolkit, a fantastic option that I want more people to have the space to explore and not a magical solution that is necessary to get to the change that you want to have.

So, it's one of many tools that we can use. So, more like a hammer, less like a wand,

right? Yes. Yes. Amazing. Well, thank you for being here with us today and sharing so much of your wisdom and knowledge about this topic.

Yeah. So, how can people find out more about you? So, they can visit me on my website inalignmentwwellness.com. I'll be there. I have a blog. I talk a little bit about more of the nuance of ketamine assisted psychotherapy along with some other fun stuff. people pleasing, emotionally immature parents, uh kink, uh polyamorous relationships, all that good yumminess. And there's also a button there if you're interested to learn more to schedule a free consultation where we can dive a little deeper and see if it might be a fit for you. And one of the things we talked about today was how important it is to prepare the people around you if this is a journey that you're going to embark on. And so I have a little freebie if anybody's interested in learning more.

You can find it on my website. And it's just a little guide for loved ones of what to expect if somebody that you care about is embarking on this journey and how to support them through that so they can really reach the goals that they're trying to reach. Amazing. Okay. So you can grab that on our website and we'll also make sure to include the link to that in our show notes so that you don't have to go looking for it. That's all for this week's episode. If this conversation resonated with you, the best way to support us is to follow, rate, and review the show wherever you're listening right now. Are you watching on YouTube? Subscribe and drop us a comment. Have a friend in mind who could use the advice in this episode?

Text them the podcast. You can also connect with us on Instagram at wytodcast. We want to hear from you, so slide into our DMs with your mental health questions. They just might be featured on a future episode. What your Therapist thinks is hosted by me, Christy Plantinga, and Felicia Keller Bole. This show is brought to you by best therapist.com, a therapist directory that vets therapist so you can focus on fit, not quality. You can find your best therapist at best therapist.com. Our show is produced by the team at Podvision. See you next time.

Questions about this episode

What is "What Should I Talk About During Ketamine Therapy? How to Get The Most Out Of A Session" about?

The discussion centers on optimizing the experience of ketamine-assisted therapy, highlighting the importance of realistic expectations versus the mystical perceptions often surrounding its effects. It features insights from a specialist in the field, emphasizing the significance of open communication and preparation for individuals exploring this transformative therapeutic approach.

What is mentioned in this What Your Therapist Thinks episode?

30 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including ketamine, CAP, Ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, Psilocybin, Psychedelic psychotherapy, therapeutic ketamine. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "What Should I Talk About During Ketamine Therapy? How to Get The Most Out Of A Session"?

The episode runs 59 min; the transcript is about 10,433 words in 222 timestamped sections.

More from What Your Therapist Thinks

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated December 19, 2025.