Transcript

The Art of Differentiation in Marketing with Brian Sooy

From Home Service Expert · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 10 min · 12,955 words · 129 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "The Art of Differentiation in Marketing with Brian Sooy", an episode of Home Service Expert published February 16, 2026 (1 h 10 min, about 12,955 words). It mentions 40 people, works and ideas, including Branding, Brian Soy, marketing, Gorg Jank Home Services, Customer Experience.

What this episode is about

Brian Sooy shares how brand strategy bridges promise and experience, guiding companies from small ventures to billion-dollar leaders to clarify messaging, focus on customer needs, and build enduring brands through simple, actionable frameworks. He emphasizes practical marketing leadership, stakeholder alignment, and the value of translating strategy into clear storytelling.

Key takeaways

  • Brand clarity is not a luxury—it's the compass that aligns leadership, teams, and customers in one meaningful direction.
  • People buy stories, not products; redefine your mission and values as a living narrative customers can inhabit.
  • Echo chambers distort branding; outsiders shed light on gaps between promise and experience, catalyzing authentic reform.
  • From mission to action: real brand work translates strategy into simple, repeatable frameworks customers can feel.
  • Brands endure by evolving with purpose—update vision and values, but stay anchored to a consistent brand promise.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Branding, marketing, Aspire, Tommy (full name not provided)
  2. – 20:00: Branding, marketing, South Carolina, A1 Garage Door Service
  3. – 30:00: Customer Journey, Trust, A1 Garage Door Service, Conversion rate
  4. – 40:00: Branding, Aspire
  5. – 50:00: Conversion rate, marketing, feedback loop, KPI
  6. – 1:00:00: empathy, Story Brand, Trust, From Strength to Strength
  7. – 1:10:00: Story Brand, Branding, Brian Soy, BlueCollar Branding
  8. – 1:10:22: Tommy (full name not provided)

Notable quotes from "The Art of Differentiation in Marketing with Brian Sooy"

  • Home service expert. Today, I got Brian Soy with me. He's based out of Cleveland. Brian is the brand strategist, author, and marketing leader with more than 30 years of…
    about marketing · at
  • Multi-billion dollar industry leaders in steel manufacturing financial sector some of our clients when I worked with Aspire included Vitamix electronic merchant systems which is a large small business merchant services provider.
    about Aspire · at
  • Yes. So, interestingly enough, I sat with the owner. So, I'm the marketing director at Gore Jank Home Services now full-time and they were a longtime client of ours early last year. Owner approached me and.
    about Brian Soy · at
  • I got an opportunity to meet Roy Williams, the wizard of ads, and kind of studied his read his books. And what I like about what he does is like his first commercial I think he did.
    about Roy Williams · at
  • Transactional. I'm wondering from your perspective, how much should a company be spending on branding versus direct response?
    about Branding · at
  • Said Tommy when we really be created the brand and people learn to trust us, they would welcome us in.
    about Trust · at
  • Dan did a great job and he's got case studies all over the site that show booking rates go up, conversion rates go up, average tickets go up and I always say this on the…
    about Conversion rate · at
  • So, I was going to ask you what you thought about it because I'm story brand certified. I have been since 2017.
    about Story Brand · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Brian Soy — Person · Main guest · 2 mentions · first at
    Guest expert discussing branding, marketing strategy, customer journey, and analytics for home services based on his agency and in-house marketing leadership experience.
  • Tommy (full name not provided) — Person · Host (name incomplete) · 3 mentions · first at
    Host of the show who interviews Brian Soy; however only a single-name reference is provided, so a person entity cannot be created per instructions.
    I love it. I've really since I got rebranded by Kick Charge in like 2018, I just I really had no idea what a brand really meant. and you start we see Nike, we see all these companies that.
  • Roy Williams — Person · Referenced expert · 2 mentions · first at
    Cited as 'Wizard of Ads' and an influence on storytelling-based advertising; used to illustrate brand-building through narrative.
  • Gary Vee — Person · Referenced expert · 1 mention · first at
    Host references advice from Gary Vee about candid feedback culture ('kind candor').
    I was on with Gary Vee last week and he said if he could go back into his 20s he would have had a lot he calls it kind cander is you could have an open voice, open feedback. You should praise more.

Books & papers

  • Story Brand — Book · Referenced framework/book · 4 mentions · first at
    Central marketing framework discussed; Brian Soy is StoryBrand certified and credits it with driving growth and messaging clarity.
  • BlueCollar Branding — Book · Guest-authored book (recommended) · 2 mentions · first at
    Brian Soy’s book is promoted as a key resource for the home services space and brand strategy.
    To close the gap between what their brand promises and what customers actually experience. He's the author of BlueCollar branding and trade secrets and a top 100 marketing…
  • From Strength to Strength — Book · Recommended book · 1 mention · first at
    Recommended to explain shifting from 'fluid' to 'crystallized' intelligence and focusing on strengths while delegating weaknesses.
    Or her strengths are and then complements those strengths with other people's strengths. have you ever read the book from strength to strength by Arthur Cbrook?
  • Trade Secrets — Book · Guest-authored book (mentioned) · 1 mention · first at
    Listed among Brian Soy’s authored works, supporting his authority in marketing/branding.
    To close the gap between what their brand promises and what customers actually experience. He's the author of BlueCollar branding and trade secrets and a top 100 marketing…

Companies & orgs

  • Gorg Jank Home Services — Company · Guest's employer / case example · 1 mention · first at
    Brian Soy describes his full-time role and how the company positions its brand (safe, comfortable, healthy) and uses analytics and coaching tools.
    Yes. So, interestingly enough, I sat with the owner. So, I'm the marketing director at Gore Jank Home Services now full-time and they were a longtime client of ours early last year. Owner approached me and.
  • Aspire — Company · Guest's company / agency · 4 mentions · first at
    Brian Soy’s marketing agency; used as the basis for his experience across industries and later specialization into home services.
  • A1 Garage Door Service — Company · Host's company / case example · 2 mentions · first at
    Used as a detailed example of brand identity decisions, customer experience design, and conversion-focused field processes.
    He didn't have work to do. I just when I designed what I wanted for A1, I just thought when I told Dan Antelli with Kick Charge, I said, I want to have that oldfashioned feeling. The guy's coming.
  • Kick Charge — Company · Referenced vendor / branding partner · 3 mentions · first at
    Host references being rebranded by Kick Charge and discusses brand identity work and outcomes (conversion, booking, ticket).
    I love it. I've really since I got rebranded by Kick Charge in like 2018, I just I really had no idea what a brand really meant. and you start we see Nike, we see all these companies that.
  • Ownership Works — Organization · Referenced organization/resource · 1 mention · first at
    Cited as an equity-ownership program model (broad-based ownership) that the host views as a key talent and incentive strategy.
    Book. Oh, it's killing me here. Okay. ownership works. It's ownership works.org.
  • Morris Jenkins — Company · Referenced company example · 1 mention · first at
    Cited as an example of a clear service promise (availability until midnight) and long-term brand positioning.
    Weekends. We come out right away. other than that, I there's a lot of things in between there. But Morris Jenkins in North Carolina does a great job. They offer till midnight 7…
  • Gorge Ink — Company · Referenced brand/name variant · 1 mention · first at
    Appears as a likely mis-transcription/variant of Gore Jank; used when discussing behavioral segmentation and messaging.
    House is worth? What's their income? But some of it I think needs to be behavioral data you know. So for Gorge Ink, we look at u people who want to keep their family safe. So…
  • American Greetings — Company · Referenced employer (early career) · 1 mention · first at
    Brian Soy cites early design work with American Greetings as part of his career origin story.
    Of time in that early days also working as a part-time professional with American greetings and that was a little unusual doing greeting card design and a lot of calendar…
  • Vitamix — Company · Referenced client example · 1 mention · first at
    Example of Aspire’s cross-industry client work, demonstrating breadth of experience beyond home services.
    In steel manufacturing financial sector some of our clients when I worked with Aspire included Vitamix electronic merchant systems which is a large small business merchant services provider and just a you know again a wide mix.
  • Nike — Company · Referenced brand example · 1 mention · first at
    Used as an example of strong brand building through endorsements and slogans.
    Got rebranded by Kick Charge in like 2018, I just I really had no idea what a brand really meant. and you start we see Nike, we see all these companies that hired Tiger Woods…

Products & tech

  • Rolex — Product · Referenced product / branding example · 1 mention · first at
    Used as an example of premium branding and emotional storytelling (Roy Williams ad) that creates willingness to pay more.
    They're top of mind and you'll pay more for like a Rolex than you will for other brands. What's the common branding mistake you see leaders making today?
  • Search Light — Technology · Analytics platform used by guest's company · 1 mention · first at
    Used for revenue analytics to evaluate lead sources and reallocate spend based on performance.
    Yeah. So, we use Search Light for our revenue analytics and once I started full-time in July of 2025, I started looking at all of that data really closely and realized that one of the.
  • Service Titan — Technology · Operational/CRM platform referenced · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as the system used to present technician profiles (photos, personal info) as part of customer experience.
    Top-notch players for seven years. So, you got to book the call, right? The next thing is the profile through Service Titan. It's got to have a picture of the family. Why you love fixing garage doors. So, we're working on a.
  • ChatGPT — Technology · Referenced tool · 1 mention · first at
    Host mentions using ChatGPT to systematize technician profile content generation for consistent customer-facing messaging.
    Fixing garage doors. So, we're working on a really We're actually using Chatchebt right now because everyone's got a good one, but I want it a little bit more systematized on you'll answer a bunch of questions and then it'll spit.

Concepts & topics

  • Branding — Concept · Core topic · 12 mentions · first at
    Branding is the dominant theme: clarity of message, differentiation, visual identity, storytelling, and aligning promise with experience.
  • marketing — Concept · Core topic · 8 mentions · first at
    The episode centers on marketing strategy for home services: budget allocation, channels, analytics, and adapting to Google/AI changes.
  • Customer Experience — Concept · Core topic · 6 mentions
    Discussed as the operational delivery of the brand promise across touchpoints (phone, technician profile, in-home behavior).
    From small entrepre entrepreneurship businesses to $5 billion organizations to close the gap between what their brand promises and what customers actually experience. He's the…
  • Trust — Concept · Core outcome · 2 mentions · first at
    Presented as the key outcome of branding + customer experience: being welcomed into homes, reducing price competition, and becoming the only call.
  • Conversion rate — Concept · Performance metric · 4 mentions · first at
    Used repeatedly to evaluate branding and sales enablement effectiveness (call center closing, field tools, ad ecosystem).
  • Customer Journey — Concept · Core topic · 3 mentions · first at
    Used to frame budget allocation (top/middle/bottom), retargeting, and the non-linear path customers take before converting.
    Don't know if there's a formula. So, typically when someone asks me that, I just say it depends. So, you think about the customer journey. A lot of times marketers will talk…
  • empathy — Concept · Core topic · 3 mentions · first at
    Positioned as essential in StoryBrand messaging and in call handling/in-home interactions to build trust and increase conversions.
    And it's it's easy for anybody in home services to identify a problem and then empathize with the customer about that problem. Once they understand your empathy, share an…
  • KPI — Concept · Measurement concept · 2 mentions · first at
    Discussed as essential for scaling: knowing cost per lead, booking rate, conversion rate, average ticket to predict revenue outcomes.
    I'm then raise your prices, like you got to have those key metrics down, those KPIs, how do you think about those things?
  • feedback loop — Concept · Operational improvement concept · 2 mentions · first at
    Discussed in the context of coaching tools (call center) and continuous improvement ('1% better') using data and feedback.
    See a market improvement that you know I talk about feedback you could take you could take lace but you got to be able to have a feedback loop that's constant and you got to…
  • HVAC — Concept · Core topic / industry focus · 1 mention · first at
    Central service category used to discuss the challenge of marketing services vs products, seasonality, memberships, and positioning.
    Promote a service business than it is to market a product business. So for instance, HBAC, we install products but we sell a service, right? Yeah. Yeah. So when it comes to the…
  • Transparency — Concept · Core principle · 1 mention · first at
    Discussed around publishing pricing and finance fees, and adapting to modern buyer expectations and AI/search changes.
    Going to love is it builds in the finance fees. So the dealer fee and it's all transparent.
  • Social proof — Concept · Persuasion principle · 1 mention · first at
    Discussed as a lever in field sales tools and marketing (showing nearby jobs, reviews) to increase trust and conversion.
    With them. So, let's say the wife is at work, the husband's at work. It's on the technician's iPad, and first thing it shows you is all the work we've done in your area, and it…
  • Endless Customers — Concept · Referenced concept/framework · 1 mention · first at
    Used to justify publishing pricing and transparency as part of modern buyer expectations and search behavior.
    That's one of the biggest things in Endless Customers is put the prices, but it doesn't mean we're giving all the price or exact pricing because we still need to get out there. It's like I could.

Places & events

  • Cleveland — Place · Guest location / market example · 2 mentions · first at
    Used to contextualize market size constraints (Lake Erie boundary) and seasonal marketing considerations in Northeast Ohio.
    Depends on the type of you know one depends on your budget and it depends on the size of your market. you know in Cleveland we have half a market because six miles north of…
  • Myrtle Beach — Place · Market example · 1 mention · first at
    Used to illustrate how marketing strategy differs by geography and market composition (rentals vs city).
    Season. We have two shoulder seasons throughout the year. or essentially like the four. But I had another client that was down in Myrtle Beach in South Carolina, so they have a…
  • Lake Erie — Place · Geographic constraint example · 1 mention · first at
    Used to explain why Cleveland-based service area has a smaller reachable market (water boundary).
    The size of your market. you know in Cleveland we have half a market because six miles north of where we are is Lake Erie. So we don't have you know where the center of our…
  • South Carolina — Place · Market example (state) · 2 mentions · first at
    Provides geographic context for the Myrtle Beach example and differing seasonality/market dynamics.
    Throughout the year. or essentially like the four. But I had another client that was down in Myrtle Beach in South Carolina, so they have a market that's in rentals, they have…
  • Ohio — Place · Regional context · 1 mention · first at
    Referenced indirectly as 'northeast Ohio' to frame seasonality and market constraints.
    And how we then amplified that story into the marketplace. for instance, one of, we're right now we're in northeast Ohio. We have two strong seasons, the hot season and the…

Full transcript with timestamps

All right, guys. Welcome back to the home service expert. Today, I got Brian Soy with me. He's based out of Cleveland. Brian is the brand strategist, author, and marketing leader with more than 30 years of experience helping companies clarify their message, focus on customers, and grow with purpose. As president of Aspire, Brian has guided owners and executive teams from small entrepre entrepreneurship businesses to $5 billion organizations to close the gap between what their brand promises and what customers actually experience. He's the author of BlueCollar branding and trade secrets and a top 100 marketing influencer known for translating strategy in a simple actionable frameworks. Brian also serves as a marketing director for uh Gorg Gorge Gorgen

Goren Home Services and publishes entrepreneuring faith leadership and work when branding invites customers into a clear story. Brian believes businesses don't just grow, they endure. I'm really excited to have you on today, Brian.

Yeah, thanks Tommy. I'm really appreciative of being here and grateful for the opportunity to to spend some time talking with you.

So, let's just talk a little bit about what's your last 30 years have been about, what you're excited about where you're at today, what you're looking forward to.

Yeah. So, the last 30 years is just it's been a long journey, lots of different experiences. started off as a generalist designer and spent a little little bit of time in that early days also working as a part-time professional with American greetings and that was a little unusual doing um greeting card design and a lot of calendar design but uh as the agency started to grow my freelance business started to grow broke off to start doing um what I ended up calling Aspire uh my marketing agency and we as you just said in the intro been able to work with entrepreneurs uh well under $500,000 up to some fantastic multi-billion dollar industry um leaders in steel manufacturing uh financial sector um some of our clients when I worked uh with Aspire included Vitamix electronic merchant systems which is a large uh small business uh merchant services provider um and just a you know again a wide mix

of businesses that, you know, gave me a really well-rounded uh opportunity to be cross-disciplinary, but over time decided it was really better to just really start specializing and focusing. So, that's more or less what I'm doing now.

I love it. You know, I've really since I got rebranded by Kick Charge in like 2018, I just I really had no idea what a brand really meant. and you start we see Nike, we see all these companies that that hired Tiger Woods and Roger Federer and there's just so many good branded companies out there and you think about their slogan and you remember them. They're top of mind and you'll pay more for like a Rolex than you will for other brands. What uh what's the common branding mistake you see leaders making today? You know, a lot of leaders, let's just you keep it very broad, struggle with with clarity about who they are, what they do, and why it matters.

And when they do that, they have they struggle leading their teams, but where it really matters, where their customers don't always connect with um how their service or their product can make their life better. Um, you know, I define branding as the story that people tell themselves about your product or service and why it matters to them. So, if leaders aren't leading with that clarity, then the customers get confused.

So, yeah, you know, so you probably go back to the mission, vision, core values. And I think there's a lot of books I've read about that some people say, "What makes you different?" Well, we work weekends. We do background checks. We're open 24/7. We're an emergency. Anybody could be that. So, how do you really develop what are the where do you start? So, the it's got to start with the owner and then, you know, what's his vision for what the business is going to be or if it's a leader in organization. So, if we're talking about home services, you know, what's the vision that the owner has? what's a vision that he's going to be able to set that people want to follow like essentially saying I'm going to take us here and you give the owner a choice or you give the the team a choice to follow or not to follow. Um the mission then is what you're doing to and how you're you're accomplishing that

vision and then building that around a set of core we call them shared values. What are those shared values that when someone comes into the firm, they can agree to and know that by following those values, they're upholding in essence the brand of the organization.

And when you when you think about branding, I love this stuff, by the way. I'm eating this stuff up. We just change the mission, vision, and core values. I I I don't think it needs to stay the same throughout the company, the legacy of the company. I think you you grow and then you kind of retool. Do you believe that?

Yes. So, interestingly enough, I um sat with the owner. So, I'm the marketing director at Gore Jank Home Services now full-time and they were a longtime client of ours early last year. Owner approached me and asked what it would take to be 100% devoted to them. And, you know, as an agency owner, that's a question that sometimes can either go two one of two ways. like what's it going to take or but it went the positive way and so we sat down yesterday and worked through our uh actually we did away sort of with the mission and combined it with our sorry with the vision combined it with our mission and defined five core values um we've floated around this idea of five or seven and um we it's more of like an update versus a replacement.

Yeah, I think that's what we did too. it wasn't necessarily a complete replacement. Uh you often say businesses are too close to the problem. How can owners step outside their own echo chamber to see what their brand means clearly? Yeah, it's like to say it's hard to read the label when you're inside the bottle. So, it's it's a matter of talking, you know, talking with clients and customers. um taking a look at, you know, come when it comes down to it, your reviews tell you a lot about how your customers can see the business. Uh if it's internal, you know, asking your doing like a 360 with your team, that could be anonymous in case they're uncomfortable telling you, you know, how you're doing with leading them. um asking your seuite team or your um like the COO, the CFO, you know, whoever that the leader relies on the most to just give candid feedback without fear of, you know, retribution or, you know,

blowback. I mean, that that's a hard thing because I'm sure you feel this sometimes, too. I felt it in 30 years of agency leadership. It's you know that cliche, it's lonely at the top. you don't you can't always trust that you're going to get the feedback you want when you need it. Um so it's just it's important to find some different ways whether anonymously or using what's already available to you to step outside and just look at your business objectively.

I was on with Gary Vee last week and he said if he could go back into his 20s he would have had a lot he calls it kind cander is you could have an open voice, open feedback. You should praise more than you criticize, but it needs to be very honest and we need to be honest with each other. No one should not see something coming. And there's, you know, you're only as strong as your weakest link. So, we need to, you might not fit our company as that it sits today. Um or you might be on the wrong seat. I don't think that's easily obtained and it's something I think every company should be striving for.

Sure. Yeah. It's um one thing I learned very late in the agency time of my career was the people that you start with may not be the people you end with which is sometimes when you're in a smaller group. you know, we had six at one time and or up to six, you know, people changed, the personnel changed and just knowing how loyal some of those people were um that they weren't going to make it all the way through to the end because, you know, I had to make a hard decision to um put the agency on pause so I could take on this full-time role. And uh it was challenging to know that I had I wanted to be very fair to my team that I had in place still and make it a very positive experience for them to in a sense transition to their next uh and from what I understand they've you know the the our art director has made a you know a great uh transition but it was tough you know knowing that you know that was going to

change and then to the cander part you know again something I just learned over time is it's best sometimes to have this conversations and you do two stars and a wish. So, two little points of praise and then you know but we could tweak this thing. We could do this better and that that softens that um critique. We don't want to call it criticism but more of a critique.

Yeah. We used to call that a sandwich where you'd say, "Hey, your tie is great, your shoes are great, but but tighten up your belt." You know,

those smudges on your uniform. Yeah. So what does your agency specialize in? I just want to get the download of like where your core competencies were with the agency.

So our core competencies were working with service businesses and then over the last six years pivoting to home services. So over that time we'd worked with a number of um in addition to the company I work for full-time now, Gorge, a number of other HVAC, electrical and plumbing companies. um some privately held, some franch uh franchised and it was it was just much more enjoyable for me to focus on one sector of business. And I mean you probably understand this well yourself. It's almost more challenging to to market and promote a service business than it is to market a product business. So for instance, HBAC, we install products but we sell a service,

right? Yeah. Yeah. So when it comes to the agency side, you come up with the creative. I mean did you guys cuz there's media buying, there's TV radio billboards, there's Google optimization, there's lead aggregators, there's the branding on the side of the truck, there there's, you know, there's endorsements, there's doortodoor teams. There's so much going on. um where did you find your sweet spot?

So our sweet spot was a brand first approach where we're very conscious of not only the visual identity in the marketplace but what was the story that we're telling um inviting customers into and how we then amplified that story into the marketplace. Um, for instance, one of, you know, we're right now we're in northeast Ohio. We have two strong seasons, the hot season and the cold season. We have two shoulder seasons throughout the year. Um, or essentially like the four. But I had another client that was down in Myrtle Beach in South uh South Carolina, you know, so they have a market that's in rentals, they have one that's in the city, and the mix for each of these different markets has to be different. And so our sweet spot was really understanding what strategy is necessary to communicate most effectively and use the um marketing budget most effectively in those marketplaces.

So you know typically the approach was and again this is what we are well known for is I call it the core of three strands where we have you know strong Google business profile optimization strong website and then at minimum one lead source and you know when you have those three things as the foundation for your marketing then you can build on that with other lead sources that are going to be most effective in your market because not all markets are the same and you have to continually be adapting.

I love it. So, I I found that most companies are going to be one of three things is going to be their their brand story. I'm the cheapest, most affordable is probably the worst one. We we're the best. We offer trademark parts. Uh we show up

uh prepared. We honor our warranties. So, that's like the trust of you you'll let me in your home and you'll do the job right and you've got great technicians and you've got new trucks that are reliable and you'll honor your warranty work. And the third one is we'll be there lickety split. We'll be there. We'll come out at 11:00 at night if we need to. We're seven days a week. We're going to show up holidays, nights, weekends. We come out right away. Uh

other than that, I there's a lot of things in between there. But Morris Jenkins in North Carolina does a great job. They offer till midnight 7 days a week and they got guys that's how they run their schedules in three three different players and they picked up they've been around since the 50s and they went on that. The other guys I know uh from your experience what are some of the things that could be the core message when you think about the story?

Yeah. So the one I I'm going to go back to again and again is the one we use at Gorge. We'll talk about rapid response service, but we don't want to be the one that someone um calls and you know at midnight. We're not the one we're not the ones who go out at midnight. Um we do have extended hours, but we constantly talk about our mission is to make your home safe, comfortable, and healthy. And that ties right into the services we deliver. Um it ties into how we deliver the service. And you know, we don't want to compete on price u because there's going to always be another company down the street that instead of having the $119 tuneup is going to have a $59 tuneup, right? So that's we're leaning into value versus the lowest cost. We're leaning into uh what's going to um let the homeowner know that we're a partner for them versus someone just coming in and being as efficient as we can to do a transaction.

You know, I got an opportunity to meet Roy Williams, the wizard of ads, and kind of studied his read his books. And what I like about what he does is uh like his first commercial I think he did was Rolex. And it was this long one minute thing about, you know, you've accomplished everything you want in life. And you've made it. You're at the top of Mount Everest. The wind's at your back. You've made it. Rolex, you deserve it. And you know, it started to make Rolex into something like when something goes well, I get married or I accomplish something in business or I have this I finish a a race or whatever it is, you deserve a Rolex. And I like Rolex cuz it's so clean. like there's all white around it. It's not like complicated and it it just it's they've got the crown and the gold. Um I'm just thinking, you know, you wrote uh the blue collar branding book. What what advice would you give when someone needs to be

thinking about how to establish themselves in a market with a lot of noise, more noise than we've ever had?

Yeah. So, look at the competition. you know, pick your top three or five competitors that you feel are the ones that are the are that you're competing against and look at how let's just start with the trucks, you know, are there trucks completely wrapped? And if you want to differentiate, go in between. Don't just stick with a white truck. stick with one that's, you know, got a very uh beautifully applied uh company name, the services you offer, phone number, you know, it's it's not about being like everybody else. It's about differentiating yourself from everybody else. So, again, that's always contextual to the marketplace. And I mean, I I travel enough around the country, I keep my eye open for, you know, what people are doing, what, you know, we're driving, we see trucks on the road. Um, I don't remember the name of it, but we were down in Florida somewhere and their whole brand was

around a a yard gnome and a pink truck. Very memorable, but you know, sometimes I just wonder like what do people think when they see that? It is it is it professional or is does it come off as too cartoony or caricaturish? So that that differentiate differentiation that we need to do needs to align with the message that we want to project. And again I think professionalism uh respect for the customer um knowledge and expertise. Um those can be reflected in how things are designed and the way they look.

Yeah. You know you remember the May Tag commercials where the guy's kind of standing around. Nothing was breaking. He didn't have work to do. I just when I designed what I wanted for A1, I I just thought when I told Dan Antelli with Kick Charge, I said, I want to have that oldfashioned feeling. The guy's coming out, he's clean, he's respectable, he's just going to do the job right, and he's going to fix it the right way, not the easy way. And what I learned is telling stories like about my mom and my grandma and how I was raised. I'm a Midwest guy.

And they got to get to know me. They got to get to know who they're buying from. and I I try not to make very very little of my ads on TV, radio, and billboards transactional. I'm wondering from your perspective, how much should a company be spending on branding versus direct response?

Well, that's a great question because I don't know if there's a formula. So, typically when someone asks me that, I just say it depends. So, you think about the customer journey. A lot of times marketers will talk about funnels and it's not so much funnel anymore. It's more of a journey and the customers are coming through that journey and until they become familiar with you and until they um know who you are and you've you've created some curiosity um they're not going to be able to take the next step and move through the middle of that journey. So you could say a third a third a third a third branding at the top or at the beginning of the journey um which would include your trucks which would include um television could broadcast um CTV uh a third in the middle with display ads uh just so that when they see your truck or when they've visited the website they start to see more ads uh to

continue to reinforce that familiar ity, right? Retargeting. And then that bottom third, it may not even need to be a third. It may be a quarter of of capturing that, you know, demand capture, but also where you you would have a short funnel to get them from uh Google to your landing page or to your call center. So, roughly a third, a third, a third. But I think it all depends on the type of of you know one depends on your budget and it depends on the size of your market. Um you know in Cleveland we have half a market because six miles north of where we are is Lake Erie. So we don't have you know where where the center of our office is. Uh we can go east and west slightly north and deep south. Um but we don't have the same um overall um market as a lot of companies do. So um we our mix our mix tends to be you know I would say a third up up in brand building and awareness and a third in the middle um which is really critical

right now and we can talk about that in a in a second. Um and then a quarter to a third at the bottom or at the end of the journey. See, I still find myself talking about funnels versus journeys. Um, the customer journey is more like a um pinball on a table than it is a straight line because there's they see an ad or they hear a radio spot and then they're going to soccer practice and so they forget about you until they see it again or they hear something again. So, they're they're popping in and out of your ad ecosystem all the time.

What's a healthy amount to spend if you're growing uh as a percentage of revenue? I've heard 5% with established companies with a lot of service agreements. I spent 14%. I've seen people that are attacking taking market share spending 20%.

Wow. So typically 10 to 12% if you're in startup or growth mode, 5 to 7% if you're in sustain mode.

4% might be a little low. 10% or 5% might be a little low. You said I'd say 4%'s a little low.

Yeah, 4%. 5 to 7% if you're in if you're in a sustaining mode. uh if you're really in a growth mode, 10 to 12%. And that's that's based on feedback and conversations I have with other agency owners and and then hearing and and watching what other people are doing in the marketplace.

You know, when when Ken Gooditch spent the money, he went to Kick Charge, got the brand, he went to Roy Williams, one of my buddies, Gattle wasn't doing very well at the time. They had to do a complete turnaround.

Mhm. And you know, he told the stories about holding a flashlight for his dad and it's been part of the community since 1940. And they bring out the flashlight that they've given to the customer. And that was like and and Dale, their top sales guy who worked there for a long time said "Tommy

when we really be created the brand and people learn to trust us, they would welcome us in." And they were already buying from us. It was just a matter of what. And as we it was we made it affordable for them with monthly low monthly payments, the ticket went from 12,000 to 22,000 because people they weren't competing. We weren't compet. It was like they were calling us and they were we were their only phone call, the only clients and then they opened the door and they'd have lunch waiting for us. They just loved us cuz they got to know us through the radio. And I think what they did is they identified their avatar and then they they literally they didn't do a couple ads. I mean they were every other ad on the radio stations they were on.

It was like I think their goal was to hit 50% of the population at least five times. meaning if they were young children, old people, if they own an apartment, it didn't matter because they looked at those, they could be referrals or whatever. Uh, but they definitely spent the money and I think they went hardcore. And then if you you stop doing that, it could go away pretty quickly. It's like it takes a couple years to build the brand and it could go away in like six months. You got to stay top of mind. And I think that's why you were talking about awareness and making sure that you're you're not just lowering it too much. What's your thoughts on that?

Well, it's it's interesting because there's data behind that as well. So, I'm familiar with another company that was doing some TV spots. again awareness building, launching residential into a new market, combining that with some programmatic ads, which is again the kind of the middle of the customer journey. And what we saw and they showed me in the data was that when they stopped doing the broadcast, the conversions and opportunities from the middle of the funnel dropped dramatically. Um, and unfortunately combined with the changes Google made last year to keeping everybody on their website instead. So that that whole awareness building so that people remember you has to be constant. That's my opinion and that's that's the way we operate. Um, that's that's the way we operate at Gorgen.

that's been constant for everybody I've ever worked with is is again this idea that just keep keep in front of them so that you become familiar and eventually you know in a sense famous but they remember you and then they recommend you. I uh I have a mentor and a buddy named Cameron Herald and he said what they did at 800 Got Junk and his painting business he was involved in is when the guys have their two days off, they go park their trucks in a busy location like a Home Depot or a Costco or something well lit up right in the front like the first parking spot that everyone walks out and sees it. And you want that right around your ideal client. So like in Phoenix, you probably want to go to Scottsdale, right? Um, and by the way, Phoenix is a huge market.

There's great great markets everywhere. But uh it's something we haven't pulled off yet because you got to build systems around that. You're going to get some stuff stolen. You're, you know, you're going to get some flat tires and maybe a catalytic converter stolen. But, he goes, "It's worth it." He goes, "It'll rarely happen cuz it's well lit up and you got to work a deal out with the Uber to get the guys, you know, back home from there. Hopefully, it's close to their house and then back to the vehicle. But that's a simple way he calls it parking. Park in the right spots that get a lot of traffic.

And that's clever. What do you think about that? No, I think that's a great idea. Um, we have so where I live about two miles away are two of our technicians and our technicians take the trucks home. One of them is on one of the most highly traveled streets in the next city over and people are and people are seeing our trucks like tens of thousands of people a day just parked there when they're home at night. And you know we we use that to our advantage too. We we use um beacons be beacons in our trucks so that we're capturing um you know attention and um mobile data from clients that are c potential customers in the areas we serve. So you know again trucks are literally a rolling billboard. So, that's why I think it's important not to have too much on the truck.

Um, because you want it to be quickly readable and memorable, you from the way it looks. And and I've se I've seen your trucks. They do convey that. The red's great. Um, I think not too long ago, you shared a photo of of your truck in a parking lot and all the other vehicles were white.

That was awesome. Um, and you stood out because it was red. Yeah. Super pop. So, you know, I'm very proud of what we built and and I think Dan did a great job and he's got case studies all over the site that show booking rates go up, conversion rates go up, average tickets go up and you know, I always say this on the podcast, but you might think 30, 40 grand, that's a lot of money, but you're betting the future of your family and all the people that work with you and the potential clients that are going to come through the door. And it's like, you know, to build a brand takes a few months to get it right. And and you got to do market analysis. You got to get a trademark on it. You got to make sure that you get the copyrights and to do it comprehensively and do it right. You just don't want to go to Fiverr and just throw something together. And Dan always makes a fun of it. Sales, service, and

installation. Like, of course you do all of that. Like, what? Like, or or you've got like Yelp all over your stuff or the BBB, like so you're just making their brand bigger. It's like you don't need everything you do on the side of the truck and you don't need uh every, you know, if you're A+ the BBB, they can look you up, but you want them to just remember you. You want no distractions. You want them focused on your logo, your brand, what you do. And it's got to pop. And some people call themselves some crazy stuff. And I'm like, I like they have the name. We're A1 Garage Door Service by B by the way, it's not the best name.

A1 fell first in the phone book, but A1 means quality. A1 is like, "Yeah, we're A1. We're topnotch." So, I got lucky that at least had a dual meeting because I was just trying to be number one in the phone book in 2006 and 7. But, uh, it's amazing how many people they're like, "How do you get so many great clients?" And I'm like, "Well, we market to our avatar, you know, and now most people don't have a clue. We we did a whole analysis of all of our top clients in our database. We're able to build an avatar And that they took historical data and I know if you're just starting out it's hard to figure that out.

Right. Right. But you can make some I don't want to say assumptions but you can say this is the type of uh client we'd like to work for. And some of that is demographic data. H how much their house is worth? What's their income? But some of it I think needs to be uh behavioral data you know. So for Gorge Ink, we look at u people who want to keep their family um safe. So that's a that's a security motivation. We want to work with um families that uh want to nurture their family, keep them comfortable, and then um protect the value of their home. So we're looking at those behavioral mindsets that they have that prompt them to make decisions the way they do. And and that gets baked into all of our messaging. Uh, and the tools that I use give me feedback on this. So, I tend to be a little sometimes I tend to be a little um less than optimistic, I should say, and and my my tools will say, "Yeah, you're

you're being too negative. Let's let's reframe this positive because that's what the prospective customer is going to want. They don't want you to lead with fear. They want you to lead with optimism."

Yeah. Well, we've always hear fear, uncertainty, and doubt sells. But you got to be very careful when you're doing that. I think that's more when you're in the home. You could talk about air quality. Uh

because it is it is a big issue. But I don't know if you want to lead the magnet doesn't need to lead with that. Like one of the things I'll give you an example of an ad I've been talking about for a long time is how do you create direct response with with branding is uh you know the garage is the smile of your home. It's 268% return on investment. But most people don't know that all those nasty critters, the spiders and the mice and all the other bugs are coming through the bottom of the garage. If you got a bottom rubber that's not tightly sealed or over 5 years old, let us come out and take a peek and let's keep those nasty critters out of your home because it's true. And it's the number one entryway. When it gets cold, they all come through the sides. It's the easiest entry point. And that, by the way, what's on the other side of the garage? The kitchen. So that is probably leading with fear. And so is a is your

door noisy? Uh you know something you don't want to be stuck missing a day of work or missing your daughter's dance recital. Uh but I do I do understand where you're coming from. What are your thoughts on that? Cuz those those are going after direct response. Those are like make a phone call now. Like I never thought about that like I should call them.

Yeah. No, we I we use the same thing, but it's typically posing a question like you posed a question. You know, are there critters getting in your garage door? You know, we'll say, "Did you get a quote that just seemed a bit high? We'll give you a second opinion at no cost, no obligation." So, we'll take a look at the quote, you know, measure the home, give them um a cost that we we think based on the size of the furnace they need. Um you know, we would we'll talk about are there contaminants in your water? Uh we, you know, refer people to a website that has all the municipal water tests.

I got the site started selling water. Yeah. It's got the fluoride and the I mean, there's like 10 things that are way over the health limits. Sometimes a thousand, sometimes 10,000x sulfur and all kinds. I mean,

when I saw that, like literally like I'm like, so I tell clients, look, you might have an RL system, but you're not showering with this water, are you? Your kids aren't showering with this water. You're not cooking with this water, are you? And I mean, yeah, it's a big deal.

Yeah. So, but you know, you point out a problem and you agitate it a little bit, but then you present the solution and and what life's going to be like when they're, you know, they they buy your solution. So, it's just it it leads into the conversation naturally. Um, but there are other times where you can say, you know, you made this investment now in a in a say a new HBAC system. This membership's going to help you maintain that system so it stays running at peak efficiency. You know, because, you know, we lean into memberships as well.

They're just a strong part of the business and keeps you in the customer's homes twice a year.

It's a good thing to sell memberships. What's the difference between a brand that looks good and one that actually drives revenue? Oh, that's a good question. Brand that looks good and one that drives revenue. Well, say a brand that looks Well, is there an example of a brand that you can think of of a brand that looks good but may not drive revenue?

Yeah, I guess that question is I'm writing a new book and one of the major things we're looking at is what do we want the person to feel like when they see the book? And so we're going to go really wide with the book instead of like a normal book. And like uh there's a lot of things that go in just to the colors, but you're right. Like you could look like a great brand, but you're not sending the right signals, I guess.

And I guess you already went into that. Yeah. Well, let me think of it. So since you mentioned books, so over the last 15 years at Aspire, we designed a lot of books for people. And one of the books we designed was uh hard cover about 142 pages printed inside on a parchment. The outside was black linen with a foil stamp title. It looked like it was an old book full of ancient wisdom. And um what's the book called?

That book over time um it's called win the win without pitching manifesto. And it's a it's a it's a book for creative services, basically anybody who's in in an advisory type of role who wants to sell more business without having to do a pitch. Um, and it had 12 principles in there. Um, but if that had if that book had been done as a paperback uh print on demand, it would not have carried the same weight from a branding perspective for the company that it was designed for as this one that you know when it shows up and you feel it. The only thing missing is that ancient wisdom smell, you know, um it's just it's a gorgeous book and it's it's it's driven millions of dollars of revenue uh for that company. Have you ever heard of Jeffrey Gimer?

Oh yeah, the little red book. He sells a lot. But it's this really nice cover with this really nice and it's it just smell like the pages and they're gold on the outside. It just feels like an expensive book.

Yeah. And it's got those my copy has those rounded corners. Yeah. Um Yeah. Yeah. It's it's a be Yeah. It's a beautiful book. Um we we designed an um you know we've just designed other books but I know as soon as you change so when you talk about you know the the design of the book actually helped create this company's brand um visual brands because I I did a monogram on the cover. They adopted that as their logo and that's what just set them up for success since I think it was 2010 when that book was published. So we're we're 15 16 years in.

I think you know companies that invest in their visual identity and their their brand are shown and I don't have the data at hand but research has been done to show that drives revenue more than you know a a company that's just winging it. You know they everything's Times New Roman on plain white paper. You know, it's projecting an image about your company like you said about your your logo. You want you wanted your visual brand to convey quality. You know, the name says quality. You want it to have that vintage feel to it, authenticity. Um, sometimes I see things that, you know, they look like modern, spacey, like Star Treky. Um, and I'm a type designer, so as well. and looking at type and seeing something, you like a a home service brand of any kind that has something that just looks still futuristic, it doesn't it doesn't resonate. It just doesn't fit. It's too slick.

Yeah. No, you know what's interesting is when I started with Alvie, he I had every color of the rainbow. And he goes, "No." He goes, "And by the way," he took a picture of my truck and he brought it in black and white. And he shows, "Show me what pops in your in your truck and your vans." He goes, "They don't pop." He goes, "You should be able to look at it in black and white." And it should pop out at you what you're trying to say. And you know, it's a good little litness test. And I still think a lot of people are listening like, "I should think about the brand more, but we can't afford it." But what's your take on that? That people say, "I can't afford to build the brand.

uh that everybody's building the brand for you and then you're letting your if you can't if you think you can't afford to build your own brand, that means you're allowing your clients or customers or the public to build it for you. So, they're seeing whatever is available to them and forming an opinion about it. But if you decide to just invest in, you know, a professionally designed logo and then applying that logo to uniforms, to a to the trucks, to invoices, to every customer touch point where it's relevant, then you start to take control of that and you start to control the conversation a bit more and in and you may never be able to completely control it, but at least you're informing and guiding it. But if you just rely on uh the perception that other people make about your brand without ever responding to that, then you're you're playing catch-up. I mean, you don't know what other people are saying or thinking or

the perception that they're they're carrying with them. So, I just think it's a bad idea to to give up on it and to say you can't afford to do it because what would it cost you? What does it cost not to do it? That that's a great question and I think there's a lot of people I was at this at my buddy's house and he's a flipper and a really big real estate agent. He had all these different trades there and this electrician he goes the guy's doing really well. It's called Save on Electric Services. And he's like, I want you to do a little keynote speech 10 minutes. And I said, I never want to be discount. And I didn't know the name of his brand till I saw later. And I said, I don't want to be known as Discount Garage Doors cuz that's the client I'm going to attract and save on. And I I I didn't I didn't realize this, but I used to do BNI, and I still if I open up a new market, I will attend a BNI and

get the get the word of mouth out there and get people talking about us. But if people are pro waiting for only networking like man like you're never going to get big. Like I could pay I know exactly what it costs per lead. I know my exact booking rate, my conversion rate, my average ticket. Therefore, I could pick the revenue I want. I just got to have great capacity planning and be able to have a flywheel for hiring and training. And you know, if you refi rely only on referrals and you don't like he who could pay more per lead will always win. And I feel like a lot of people they're like, man, I got more business than I could handle. And I'm like, then raise your prices, you know, like like you got to have those key metrics down, those KPIs, you know, how do you think about those things?

Yeah. No, I I agree. Um we're constantly taking a look at what's you know where what's the return on the ad spend um number of leads coming in. I think they call them opportunities number of opportunities coming in because at some point they're always going to be um an opportunity for someone to interact with that person uh who's who's calling or um submitting a form on the website or starting to fill out theuler. you know, it's if if you're not using and looking at the data to drive your business decisions, you don't know where that money's going and it could be wasted. You know, for example, we we use a platform called Search Light to

Very familiar with Search Light. Yeah. Yeah. So, we use Search Light for our revenue analytics and um once I started full-time in July of 2025, I started looking at all of that data really closely and realized that one of the the aggregator platforms that the company had been subscribing to for a long time produced uh very little revenue for the investment and you know those the quality of the leads that came in from it were not the greatest. So we just decided to reallocate you know end that relationship and reallocate elsewhere.

But if if I hadn't been looking at the data I would not have known that. Another example is just last week we did some analysis on I mentioned earlier that in 2025 early uh 2025 Google made some changes to start keeping searchers on Google's website. You're probably familiar with zeroclick search. So people search for a result on Google.

Yep. Yep. The Google business profile and the the realization we had was that that's changing the way Google is then using the websites that so many of us invest so much money in. So the role the website needs to change. The role of the Google business profile needs to change especially with

LLM AI searches. Yeah. Yeah. Which get way more credit than they actually need right now because they're, you know, based on the research I'm seeing, there's not that much um activity from them.

Um I agree with that. I think it's going to start changing, but you know, that's where it comes

really making sure you got the schema data. We're building another website for the AI engines to read and we're doing Marcus Sheridan's whole playbook on um you know, we're comparing ourselves to other companies. We're comparing parts. We're we're winning awards. We're we're giving we're starting to feed the machine our background checks. We're giving as much information as we possibly can because we know what's coming and we plan on winning that game in spades.

Yeah. What about pricing? Are you going to be putting pricing on? Yeah, we are. We built a price calculator. Uh the pricing needs to be out there. That's one of the biggest things in Endless Customers is put the prices, but it doesn't mean we're giving all the price or exact pricing because we still need to get out there. It's like I could give you the price of a transmission, but your transmission might not be bad. We got to look at the other things going on. Uh but we're being very transparent. We're we're trying to build. This is happening whether we like it or not. I'm not a big fan. Uh but I'm sold on it.

I'm sold that this is what needs to happen for the new buyer persona. Absolutely. And what and the the companies that don't do that are going to get left behind. So you you you think about and you think about that's that's just part of your brand, how you're showing up in the marketplace. Um you know, I like and we all have this this dream that we're going to dominate our marketplaces. But in reality, there's going to be one or two that dominate. So I like to say that if if you're even if you're not the market leader, act like you're the market leader and do the things that market leaders do and eventually you become that leader.

Do you what do you guys use as far as the call center? Do you use a voca or lace or uh broccoli or I know same day? There's a lot of different softwares.

Yeah, we're using lace for our call center which everybody loves um because of the feedback it gives, the coaching it gives. Um we've that's been 3 to six months um that we've been using that and it and it's actually dramatically improved our uh closing rate. So we've invested a lot in coaching uh not only the the call center but our technicians you know there's platforms like that do that um we're very much committed to that continuous learning and that coaching because you know if everybody improves you know 1% a day then by the end of the year by the end of the month whatever you know we can see a market improvement

that you know I talk about feedback you could take you could take lace but you got to be able to have a feedback loop that's constant and you got to have you're just trying to make little tweaks. You're trying to get to make 1% better. Like you said,

I'm a big fan of lace. We're on lace. I love Boris. Uh you know what I just started using that you'll be you'll get a kick out of is Mantle.

Maybe you're not familiar with it. You got to check out it's m- an eel. I can give you the information. But uh what it does is it allows the client to kind of do their shopping when you're with them. So, let's say the wife is at work, the husband's at work. It's on the technician's iPad, and first thing it shows you is all the work we've done in your your area, and it zooms out a little bit if we haven't done a lot of work in that area, like a newer market. So, you get the uh social proof, and it goes through kind of the guy's a big fan of Robert Chadini and influence. So, you're you're using all these influential things, and the average ticket has gone up $1,700 and the conversion rate has gone up 18%.

And this is like a home run. And they build their pricing directly in. So it's a performance paid thing. You don't pay a monthly fee. It's based on what you sell. And it just builds it right into it. And the coolest thing is what you're going to love is it builds in the finance fees. So the dealer fee and it's all transparent. It's not like you're tricking the client. You could do a no no plan all the way till 2029. And they like to work with companies that are 10 million or more because it's it's a lot of work to get it all together. But I'm telling you, like some of these companies, whether it's Real Zero, you know, these different companies, we we actually built our own because I wanted roleplay and scorecards built into it. We built one called Fieldspark and it's not quite where those other ones are at. Uh but it will be cuz we're putting the money into it.

And I just love knowing on what's going on in the field. How is this guy selling so many memberships? How is this guy getting a review on every job? How is this guy selling our top product of springs? How is this person getting at such a high conversion rate and starting the work? Like when you could study these things and build a library and assign them to people and then they they kind of get the aha moment. They got to like and a lot of that goes into hiring winners that are competitive. They like to know the score. But man, this is my jam. Like when I talk about conversion funnels, like I am a CMO. Like I'm not a CEO. Like I'm not a good CEO. I'm more of a CMO. Like I there I think there's three types of CEOs. One is a CFO that becomes a CEO.

So the CFO, the financial guy, one of them is the operations guy. One of them is the marketing guy. I'm far more the marketing guy, a mix of operations, sales, culture. I'm not good. I mean, I can read a balance sheet, but not not like not like my people on my FPNA team. Like I I look at it, I'm like, "Uh-huh. Explain this a little more." You know what is and they're just like, "Well, it's right there." And I'm like, "Okay, I I know how to read it, but like where are we missing? What's going on? I want to look more into why why are the why is labor so much higher in this market?"

And we dig into it and yeah, we're paying guys minimums in that market because it's new or this or that. And we we're flying guys to that market. So the what's interesting is and it's probably a failure point of mine is you would think I would try to get better at my weaknesses, but I'm here on the podcast with you talking about what I love. So I want to take what I'm great at and make myself continuing to be the best and then hire for everything else.

Right? And that's that's what a great leader does is understand what what his or her strengths are and then complements those strengths with other people's strengths. Um have you ever read the book from strength to strength by Arthur Cbrook?

No, but I'm going to write it down. From strength to strength. Yeah. It's it's it's really fascinating because and I read it because I'm getting, you know, I'm later in my career. Um going to be turning 65 this year. And what is fascinating about this book is how he's he's studied how younger thinkers from, you know, up till about age 45 are you they're more innovative. They're faster physically. We think faster. But and that's their strength. But, uh they call it fluid intelligence. But after that we we have crystallized intelligence where we're taking all of our previous experiences and synthesizing them into new ways of thinking. And you know it's coming to that realization that we don't have to be good at everything we do. But we have to recognize that those strengths in other people and give them the opportunity. So delegate those responsibilities to them so that the or so that not only can you thrive so you

you speaking of you but also the organization thrives and prospers around you. I'll tell you the best advice I have about getting the right people is an equity incentive program. When I learned that every public traded company and every private equity company and every VC uses equity as a resource to put golden handcuffs to attract the right talent and keep them.

Uh it changed everything for me. And by the way, it feels really good when the company does make a transaction and a lot of people that put in the effort, they feel like owners, they run like owners. Jack Trout wrote a book called uh A Stake in the Outcome. And man, if you look up KKR, something interesting that they do. It's called um Oh, KKR. They did it with a bunch of companies. Oh, I'm trying to think of the name of it, but it's uh it's an equity program for everybody. Kind of like an ESOP, but much better positioned.

And um Oh, man. I'll think of it here in a minute, but um I'm going to read that book. Um Oh, it's killing me here. Okay. Um

ownership works. It's ownership works.org. Ownership works.org. Um, you know, there's there's a book called Story Brand and it's a pretty good book and there's 2.0. I haven't read the second version, but it's creating a story brand. What are your thoughts on that?

So, I was going to ask you what you thought about it because I'm story brand certified. I have been since 2017. And when it comes to creating a story that resonates with your customers, I have not found or even my helps motivate your team, I've not found a better model in the last 30 years. Um, in fact, there there's a if you listen to Don's podcasts recently, he's revised it to with what he calls the peace framework. So, it's a much simpler approach where you identify a problem and it's it's easy for anybody in home services to identify a problem and then empathize with the customer about that problem. Once they understand your empathy, share an answer with them about how you could solve the problem. Um, what change is going to occur and then what the end result's going to be. And you use those five steps to to complete what we call the it's the curiosity know it's the enlight curiosity enlightenment

commitment triangle. So, you're getting them curious about why they should care. Um, you're enlightening them and then you you it's like a house. You take them up those five steps to the front porch and then so it's like you you've got them to call you. Then you you explain why this is going to help change their life in some way for the better, a transformation versus a transaction. And then you call them to commitment. And that's where you get to enter the front door of the house and they buy from you. But I think it's a fantastic framework. Um, again, I'm in my ninth year. No, 10th year. 10th year now.

Ninth year. And over the last nine years, it's it's transformed the way I've done business. It's helped our business grow. Um during co we had the best years ever because story brand led into getting some new clients and it's been transformational in gorge since we started implementing it with them in everything um from the website to emails to scripting um just unreal how how much um revenue it's helped drive

you know I became really good friends with Sebastian and he talks about the company's story. And something I do during orientation is I say something really simple like, "Look, Mr. Jones, I got to tell you something. A1, this company's been with me in good and bad times. I mean, when we went through COVID, they were communicating with us daily. They take care of us. You know, I can work anywhere I want in the country. I can work anywhere I want with garage doors. I'm certified. Sometimes I I think I'm a third certified badass.

Excuse my French, but uh but I'll tell you, you know, I trust A1 for my family and so does my wife and so do my kids and you should trust him, too. It's not a crazy story. You could actually bring in more of a story. Sometimes I say, "Hey, tell a story about how I started. Tell a story about how my mom came into work. Tell a story about how I was in the truck." And then I'll call customers myself to make it right, even though we service 25,000 clients a month. uh tell them that we buy more garage doors than anybody on the planet and we get the we build a Frankenstein of a door. We buy this part from this manufacturer. We're the only company I know in the garage industry that does it. And if you get that story right cuz they're buying from you, they got to know and like and trust you, but they also got to know like and trust the company. And they need to feel loved. And that's the empathy. And

that's smiling when they tell something funny or having empathy when they say something not so good about what broke. And if you do that correctly,

I mean you're going to make a sale. Yeah. So I wonder So interesting though, but what if you entered that story? What if you only talked about your company kind of in an authority after saying to the c, you know understanding hey hey understand you've got these broken springs and you know, I know that can be like because if you get locked in in your house, you can't get your car out and it's an emergency. And then lead up to that, you know, we're we're A1 and you know, my family trusts A1. You know, that's why you should too and kind of build the front of the story first or where it's about the customer.

Yeah. You can't you can't use the company's story right when you walk in. You you got to identify the pain. I mean, you you got to

we spend 30 minutes minimum getting to know the client. I would say diagnose the person before the problem. The doctor walks in and he says, "Let me look in your ears, your nose, your throat. Let me have you cough a few times." He's going to ask you. He's going to say, "Brian, you know, what's the alcohol use? How much you working out? What's your anxiety level? How's the family doing? Any cigarette smoking? Any recreational drugs? Uh overall, what would you say?" So, so they you got to get to know the people a little bit before you come with solutions and do the tests. And if someone walks in and says like I've had guys that walk in, oh, it's a broken spring. I got the stuff on the truck. Well, how often do you use the door? Who sleeps upstairs?

Did the opener make too much noise? Let's let's go through and talk about everything. The guy's got a kegarator in the garage. I'm going to start talking about beer cuz I like beer. I want to find out, you know, and then they start talking. You see them light up. You see the client light up. Or other times you say, "So, how old's your dog?" And they're like, "Oh, that's my daughter's, you know, he's a good dog." But they don't light up. But they might have a Harley and you say, "Have you ever been to Stures?" and they're like, "Oh man, last year we went to" and they just start talking. And customers, if you find something in common, we started trying and we're not quite there yet, but if they're military, pair them up with military. If they're someone that that just had kids and we could get that over the phone, we pair them with a tech that just had kids cuz you buy from people that are like you.

Sure. Sure. And you buy from people you like. It's easier to have those conversations. So curious, so what else do you do for your customers to ensure that they just have a memorable experience that they want to tell about tell somebody else about?

Yeah. So number one, the first experience is on the phone. So we've got the GINA acronym, which is my mom's name, of it's not just booking the call, but it's the way we book the call. And we smile and we have empathy and we say, "Oh no, I'm so sorry. You're stuck. You picked the right company. Listen, I'm going to send out our best technician. I'm going to tell you a little bit about him and his family. And he's such a great dad. And he's been a player here today. One, one of the top-notch players for seven years. So, you got to book the call, right? The next thing is the profile through Service Titan. It's got to have a picture of the family. Why you love fixing garage doors. So, we're working on a

a really really We're actually using Chatchebt right now because everyone's got a good one, but I want it a little bit more systematized on you'll answer a bunch of questions and then it'll spit out the stuff we want. and putting pictures in there. And then the next thing is we we always offer coffee. Hey, listen. I'm stopping at Starbucks. What could I grab you? If you come to my house, my fiance's going to cook for you. So, reciprocity. The next thing we do is we park in a visible spot. We always have our tools with us and we knock the door. We never ring the doorbell. Strangers ring the doorbell.

And then we smile. We got to play with the dog. Uh playing with the dog is a big deal. So, playing with the dog is uh important to me. And uh just those little things like if they know you love their dog, they're going to buy from you. The dog's got like the six cents. And uh one of the things I learned also from Robert Chadini as we're working on is listen, we'd like to give you something. You're a great client. You could pick Deco Hardware Kit or pick this garage door armor. Uh we want to give you something as a gift today. And then they walk out to their truck and they say, "Listen, you know what? You were a really amazing client, Brian. We're just going to give you both."

uh what we decided as a company. I called my manager. You're you're amazing. We're just going to give you both that those little things uh really stand out. And then I'm I'm buying compressors cuz we're in your garage. I I want to be able to make sure your tires have the right PSI. I'm just making sure I don't have any liability of somebody like So me and my lawyers are working through that. But um you know, and if we could, we'll take out the garbage. I had a guy pick weeds the other day. We helped put a Christmas tree back up. like one thing above and above and beyond outside the scope. And we don't my technicians aren't allowed to sell doors. They're allowed to turn it over to a product specialist that's on the phone. I got 20 of them sitting in front of three computers what's in stock. We could build the door on your home. We could tell you all the promotions we got going on. So, and

we're going to offer you a door almost on every single job. We're going to say, "Listen, have you ever thought about a new door? Are you happy with this door?" Cuz quite frankly, I don't feel comfortable. My job is to offer you everything, Brian. I don't care your color. I don't care your age. I don't care if you're male or female. I don't care if you're in a low-inccome house. I'm going to offer you everything and let you decide. And if you say, "Tommy, that's more than I wanted to spend." No problem, Brian. Let's just pick another option.

So, there's there's some examples of what we do. Yeah. No, that's great. I mean, there's a I'm going to make sure our our leadership team listens to this section in particular just I mean, there's just a few things in there that I thought were really good. It's you know, especially just that personal connection um you know because you've probably found this too and I know you hire for that, but those the technicians um not wanting to feel like they're salespeople or the service professionals, they they're uncomfortable with that selling.

So, we're really working hard to make sure that that experience is not just about walking in doing the service, but also looking for opportunities. And we've equipped them with a simple sheet that has some accessories that can make the air cleaner, um the water healthier, um you know, sur protectors, things like that, just to make the home safer. Uh and and to lower that feeling that they they have to sell, but also to give them opportunities to make more money.

Yeah. They're they're always frustrated. They don't the the problem is if you were to close your eyes and I have the guys do this in orientation. I want you to really think about sales and I want to write write down what you think and it's never positive. And a lot of that came from the Great Depression and thinking about money and oh we're eating we're reading like rich people at Thanksgiving. Um, but Daniel Pink wrote a book uh to sell as human and Joe Joe Chrisara probably we just talked about buying this book. We buy this book for we buy a go for no for every technician. It's ghost training. The book's called Go for No. And I'm going to start buying them. What should we do?

Joe Croissar. But what I like to tell people is I don't need you to be good at sales. I want you to be a good human being. I want you to smile. I want you to be quiet after you ask a question. If they offer you iced tea, I want you to take it. I want you to be on one knee when you're presenting because that's just respect. You don't need to be great at sales, but you need if I teach you these skills, you're going to be better in your home life. You're going to have more success. You're going to have more friends, more deep relationships. This isn't just about garage doors. This is about changing your life.

Absolutely. And that's, you know, and again, just, you know, I'm relatively new to being familiar with with how you think about your team, but that's one thing that's really impressed me. It's it's not just about the performance in the field. It's about their performance in life and how they care for their family and how they they grow and mature, too. Um, you because I I'm sure you've got seasoned professionals who've been with you a long time, but there's always a lot of young young uh new employees coming in depending on the markets you're in and the markets you're opening.

Well, that's why I got a personal brand is because a lot of the people 62 guys just graduated and most of them were there because they follow me and they wanted to work under uh I'm not cocky about it. I mean, I got a lot of humility, but look, I do care. We've got a dream manager. We're getting a second one towards the end of this year. Uh, we want to teach you how to have money go into your account and then have it go into other accounts. One's a vacation account, one's a future self, your retirement. One is a it's a vacation house, you know, and we could split it up however you want. It it helps create discipline. Uh, we're getting a full a full-time agency to help fix credit. Um, I want to know what your dreams are. I want to know what your goals are, and I want to help you accomplish those. If you're not happy with the way you look or your weight or your teeth, let's talk about what we could do to get that

remedied as quick as possible. And the dream manager helps the whole family move in the same direction.

Yeah. Is that through the book Dream Manager? Yeah. So, they're certified through that. Yeah. But, um, Ryan, let's wrap this up here. Um, how do we get a hold of you if someone wants to reach out? Uh, you know, the best way is through my gorge email. It's uh brian.soy s o ygorejank.com. G o r j anc.com or on LinkedIn? That's always another good place. I'm pretty active there.

And then um obviously we talked about a lot of books. Is there any books that you you you think the audience should take a look at that will change their their outlook? Well, you know, in the home service space, um, if I may, I'd love for them to take a look at bluecollar branding. I just got a fantastic feedback from one of our our partners on LinkedIn about it. Um, he called me last week and he he had just received it. He said he had just gotten home from an event. Um, and he was spending more time with the book than with his family and he got in a little bit of trouble with that. Um, and he said, he goes, "I've got a lot of buddies who've written books like this for the market." and he go um and you're the first one I've ever called to tell them how great the book is. So that um you know in the space you know um even though it's more for advisers you know this idea of winning without

pitching and just talking about the value of your business is good. So that win without pitching manifesto I think is really helpful. And you know story brand 2.0 I know you mentioned that it's um listening to the story brand podcast with um with Donald Miller. You can pick up so much about how to market your business more effectively just by listening to that podcast. But story brand 2.0 is fantastic and I know Don's been simplifying the framework more and more. Um and then when it comes to leadership uh you know you're talking about dream manager the story brand the story brand h and the uh what do they call it their coaching um division they've got some tools you know for helping people um create their life plan you know those kind of things um there's just a lot you know it's just I I tend to to read a lot to try to absorb a lot so um do you and you know if you're a home Go ahead Sorry.

If you're a home I was say, yeah, if you're a home service business owner, operator, and you've got a team, one book I'd really recommend is a is is called um Business Made Simple, and it I believe it's Hold on one second. Yeah. Yeah. This book. So, Business Made Simple. This book has everything I wish I would have read 30 years ago and known about like how to teach employees that they're actually revenue generators and not expenses. You know, how they should show up just it's just a fantastic book about you know how to what a value driven professional should be like. And you know, if we're if we're thinking of everybody in our office and everybody in the field as professionals, then it it's it's just a a common way for everybody to think and to teach to.

I love it. So much good information. I'll let you close us out though, brother. Man, anything you want. You know, one of the things I had to really think deeply about as I transitioned from, you know, we still have the agency, it's in quiet mode. So, I am an owner, but coming out of ownership after 30 years into a business, I had to think about this idea that, you know, ownership can be in the business, but ownership is a mindset. And for any anybody who's on a team to show up every day with this idea that ownership is a mindset and that you have a set of responsibilities, you have a role, you have things you're accountable for.

Just have that ownership mindset and then just take it and run with it. That's what I lead, you know, would leave everybody with is, you know, no matter where you are in an organization, you lead from where you're at and you own what you what you're responsible for.

I love it, Brian. I really enjoyed this and I'm looking forward to seeing you here in the near future.

Yeah, thanks Tommy. We'll um see what we can do about getting out there to visit you guys. We'd love to see your operation.

Yeah, anytime. We'll set it up with Ashley and u I appreciate you. Have a great weekend and uh talk soon.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "The Art of Differentiation in Marketing with Brian Sooy"?

Tommy (Host), Brian Sooy (Guest), Gorge Home Services (Guest).

What is "The Art of Differentiation in Marketing with Brian Sooy" about?

Brian Sooy shares how brand strategy bridges promise and experience, guiding companies from small ventures to billion-dollar leaders to clarify messaging, focus on customer needs, and build enduring brands through simple, actionable frameworks. He emphasizes practical marketing leadership, stakeholder alignment, and the value of translating strategy into clear storytelling.

What is mentioned in this Home Service Expert episode?

40 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Branding, Brian Soy, marketing, Gorg Jank Home Services, Customer Experience, Aspire. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "The Art of Differentiation in Marketing with Brian Sooy"?

The episode runs 1 h 10 min; the transcript is about 12,955 words in 129 timestamped sections.

More from Home Service Expert

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated October 29, 2026.